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- [00:00]
Gemma
This is an I Heart Podcast. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed I truly don't think I've ever had as many events as I do right now. And N's Shower Cream has been not just a lifesaver but a time saver as well. Because I don't know about you, I just can't be bothered with shaving anymore. Especially as I've been trying to remove house and do a million other things. Nice is the number one hair removal brand and their body and shower creams. Firstly, they actually smell delicious whilst working so well to get rid of all of my hair. When I'm tight on time, I use the shower cream infused with coconut oil and it's also so gentle on my skin, I feel so silky afterwards. And it's free of dyes, parabens, phthalates and sulfates. So get ready for summer. Buy now at all major retailers.
- [01:24]
John Lithgow
Hello, I'm John Lithgow.
- [01:25]
Bob Crawford
We choose to go to the moon.
- [01:27]
John Lithgow
I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.
- [01:36]
Bob Crawford
You're a great pilot, Buzz.
- [01:38]
John Lithgow
That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Buzz. Starring me, John Lithgow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:54]
Bob Crawford
I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast. You, the listener, ask the questions.
- [02:03]
Gemma
Did George Washington really cut down a cherry tree? Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair?
- [02:07]
Bob Crawford
And I find the answers. I'm so glad you asked me this question.
- [02:11]
Gemma
This is such a ridiculous story.
- [02:13]
Bob Crawford
You can listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:25]
Gemma
Hey, it's Gemma and I have something really special to share with you. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live video podcast. Not a pre recorded episode, not a highlight reel, but A real time, face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh and kind of just reflect together no matter where you are in the world. Plus, I'm hosting a VIP afterparty for my inner circle where I will be answering your questions and getting to talk to you guys even more. It's happening August 12th at 7pm Pacific Time or August 13th at 12pm if you live in my hometown of Sydney, you can grab your ticket now at PAVE Live. I cannot wait to see you there. Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s. The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode. As we of course break down the psychology of our 20s today, we are talking about something that has become absolutely mega, huge, I would say, in like the last year. What we are talking about is the rise of run clubs, run mania, half marathon ambitions, people putting their strava on their hinge profiles, people Saturday mornings booked out to run 3k, 5k, 10k. Seemingly overnight, running has become like the new frontier of fun. And I have to admit, I myself have been bit by the running bug. And not just like the running bug, the run club bug. Here's the thing I distinctly remember. It's a very, it's a core memory, core memory for me. I remember saying to one of my best friends last year, if I join a run club, stop me. Something is wrong. Like something is wrong. This is not me. I've turned down the wrong path. I have always hated running. I would try for a few months, maybe run like max, like 3km, which is still quite far, and then kind of just give up. And I always was like, you know what? Running just isn't for me. I'm just not going to be that kind of gal. Like, it's just not in the cards. Now I'm at a point where I'm running 30km a week. I have a running vest and every Sunday, without fail, I'm at the park at 8am Ready to do my three laps with my friends. And I keep thinking back to that person, that version of me, who kind of didn't know what she was missing. I love my run club. And this, it turns out, is no accident. I think especially in our 20s and 30s, when loneliness can really creep in quite easily and our identity feels very slippery, there is something quite powerful about showing up for something so simple, so repetitive, so social and kind of quietly very transformative. You know, you don't need to be fast, you don't need to know anyone. You just need to keep putting one foot in front of the other. And then at the end, you get rewarded with a really convenient kind of socialization that I don't think a lot of us have experienced since high school or college or maybe like a graduate program. Additionally, I think when some of the earliest structures we relied upon to give our life meaning fall away, running is a really positive and easy space to set goals in. It is very easy if you are capable to see effort directly reflected in performance. You know, you run more, you add more kilometers, you train harder, you will see an improvement. Whereas in other areas of our life, progress is a lot harder to track. It's not as. Not as linear. And, you know, of course, exercise also just makes us feel good. So there's like the inherent reward in that as well. So in today's episode, we are going to dive into the psychology of run clubs and their emotional pull, especially in our 20s and 30s. We're going to talk about their inherent benefits, how they are actually quite positive anchors and what they reveal about how we want to be seen and supported and how we want to connect as humans in this decade. We're also going to dive into the downsides, downsides that I have seen myself, especially when run clubs are not inclusive or they're too image based, and how we can continue to engage in them in a way that serves us without feeling let down by these other elements that have no space in this community. So this one is for all my runners out there, my run curious listeners, maybe even the movement avoided, who have, like, looking at run clubs, thinking, that looks awful. Why would anyone want to do that? Hopefully this episode gives you kind of an idea. So without further ado, let's get into the unexpected psychology of run clubs. So first off, let's answer this very big question. Why are run clubs suddenly everywhere? What has changed in our social fabric that has made the simple act of collectively jogging together such a powerful magnet for community? It turns out run clubs are basically filling a very crucial void that we have as a generation that very little else is prepared to fill. Consider this. Many of us in our 20s are experiencing what, what psychologists would call social displacement. So we are often moving to new cities for jobs. We are chasing opportunities far from our hometowns. We graduate from university or we finish school, or we finish apprenticeships, and suddenly we kind of lose Those built in effortless structures of friendship. You don't have daily class, you don't have campus clubs, you don't have shared dorm rooms. That constant easy proximity to friends, I feel like it almost vanishes overnight and you're suddenly spending a lot more time alone when perhaps you don't really want to. You're trying desperately to build new communities in new spaces, and it's really hard. This is not just you. This is not an isolated experience. There was a 2021 study published in the very famous journal Nature, and it actually analyzed mobile phone data from millions of users, and it confirmed that our friendship networks do tend to shrink significantly and quite rapidly during our 20s. This is because we become more selective. Also, it's just, you know, convenience, distance, and the fact that the effort required to forge new friendships, it's really overwhelming when you don't have that base level of knowing each other or similarity. The best name I have for it is a friendship recession. And it leaves many of us feeling like a very profound sense of loneliness. Also, despite being really hyper connected online, spending even more time on our phone, it doesn't really seem to be helping. We actually are more lonely than ever before. That irony is, like, not lost on me. You know, we are digitally saturated, but we are relationally starved. Like, social media has convinced us that we can be more in contact than ever before, but the level of contact is so shallow. And that is actually a real growing concern. You may have heard the statistic that loneliness is as dangerous as smoking a packet of cigarettes a day. That's a scary figure. And for many people in their 20s, that is their reality. This is where run clubs come in. Run clubs offer a really tangible, real world antidote to digital fatigue and to social isolation. During this decade, we aren't just looking for exercise. Like, if you just wanted exercise, you could go to the gym, you could go and run by yourself. It's the human connection, specifically a kind that goes beyond the screen that is really what people want. They're seeking a tribe, they're seeking a place where they belong, and they are also seeking a shared experience with other human beings. Run clubs make all of this easier because they reintroduce structured socialization, unlike trying to kind of start a conversation with a random person in a coffee shop or at a bar, or trying to form connection with people at parties, which, oh my God, honestly, is the worst. I look, I can't even be bothered doing that anymore. Run clubs provide like a really low pressure, predefined environment for connection where the rules of engagement are very, very clear. You are not forced into intense conversations. You can chat during the warm up, you can chat during the run if your pace allows it. During cooldowns, you could grab a coffee afterwards. But, you know, the primary activity of running provides a really comfortable backdrop, so it takes the pressure off. Awkward silences. There's also a number of people there who you can go and run with. If a conversation has a lull, you can always just focus on your runner. You can play music. You don't have to carry the conversation. Basically, the run kind of does that for you. It's like a version of parallel play, which is a concept in developmental psychology where basically some of the best kinds of experiences and most joyful experiences we have are when we are just doing something side by side with someone without being fully invested in what the other person is doing. But we get a lot of enjoyment from just kind of having them there. If you think about it as well, you know, this whole idea is built around what you would assume is a common interest. You know, that everyone there shares a love of running or at least has a willingness to try. So this breaks down a huge initial barrier. There is immediately something that you can relate to the other person about. And also there's a regular schedule as well. So it also introduces predictability, which means the cognitive load and the cognitive effort of having to make plans and having to find the place that's going to work for everyone and the time and whatever that disappears. You just know to show up and you know they'll be there and you can opt in or you can opt out. I think in a way someone actually said this to me the other day. It kind of feels like run clubs have replaced like after school clubs for us in our 20s. Like, you know, after school when you used to like go and play sport or used to go to like, like craft club or like, I don't know what you guys did. I used to go to like band practice. Like, yeah, it wasn't always the most fun, but it was regular and there were people there and you would make friends through that. This is what a run club is. We're basically just trying to replicate the social scaffolding that we enjoyed about being at school and that we enjoyed about being around people our own age with similar interests doing similar things. So this consistent low pressure interaction of run clubs is. Is actually has a name. What we're experiencing when we go to these is what psychologists call incidental intimacy. It is the kind of familiarity and comfort that develops from just simply sharing routine spaces and sharing activities week after week with the same people, much like those after school clubs. You know, think about your old school friends as you get older. You kind of realize like you maybe didn't really like them as much as you thought you did. You probably didn't have much in common, but you did have the shared environment. And so that meant that it, the repetition of casual exposure and casual interactions already gave you like a very pre prepared baseline for friendship. Run clubs recreate this organic environment and it's something that a lot of people are really craving and it makes it easier, I think, at least to transition from running buddy to genuine friend if you have enough of those casual repeated moments with each other. Obviously that doesn't just provide fertile ground for platonic relationships. It's also a great place to meet people romantically. And that is coming up with run clubs time and time again. I've been seeing this all over TikTok. Like our run clubs, the new dating apps. Like, is this where you're going to meet your partner? It seems like it's also meeting a need in the dating space as well. Not only are we finding it hard to meet friends in real life, obviously the dating apps are swampy and they suck and people hate them and there's very little success on them. And so run clubs are also filling that space. They have this dual ability to fill the need for real human connection where you can like see someone and be like, do I like you? Do we have chemistry? Are we interested in each other? Rather, rather than having to go through like, okay, let's talk on hinge for three weeks and then maybe one day we'll figure it out. A couple of my friends have actually been dating people they met at run clubs. And you know what? It's not just because it's a shared interest and it's not just because it's convenient and because it facilitates real world connections. Exercise also famously causes us to release endorphins and dopamine, the happy hormone, which play a really crucial role in the brain's reward system, but also in the development of lovey dovey romantic feelings. So it's like you already are meeting people from a place of a natural endorphin high and a level of joy and happiness and openness. So you are more receptive to, I don't know, like a little romantic bond. There's also something to be said about the position of your body when you attend these clubs that naturally lends itself to openness and socializing. Not Just romantic, but Platonic as well. There's something very primal about moving in sync with others, that kind of collective motion synchronized movement that comes from running together. It is an incredible, incredibly natural way of being for us as humans. And it promotes affiliation, it promotes trust. There's been research into this that shows that when we engage in coordinated physical activities, our sense of cooperation improves. It can even reduce pain sensitivity among participants, because we know that community and feeling like we're part of a collective is incredibly healing and nourishing, and it's something we don't have enough of. It's also partly due to the role of mirror neurons. You've probably heard of these before. Mirror neurons are these specialised brain cells that fire both when we perform an action and when we observe someone else performing the same action, like running. Interestingly, these mirror neurons, what is to blame? Like, when you see someone else yawn and we ourselves yawn? It's basically like the building block for empathy and for allowing us to have a shared experience of the world and allowing us to feel bonded to other people. So when you're running alongside someone, you're matching their pace, you're feeling the same exertion, your mirror neurons are firing like crazy and they are creating a subconscious bond of empathy, understanding and camaraderie. I know that sounds strange, but scientifically, you know, this side by side dynamic is actually a really important part of run clubs that people don't often talk about. Also, there's a lack of eye contact. Right? So having someone next to you means you don't have to have that sustained focus and attention on the other person. That happens when you sit down for coffee or you sit down for dinner. And that actually really lowers the expectations and it creates a low pressure environment that does make it easier to share thoughts, to be vulnerable, to share personal stories. Therapists and counselors actually take advantage of this a lot. This is the principle behind walk and talk therapy, where therapists understand that when you're walking with someone outdoors, side by side, actually the likelihood that someone will disclose something or the likelihood that someone will feel comfortable enough to share is increased because it reduces inhibition between the client and the therapist. So are run clubs also the new therapy? No, but kind of. When we consider these principles, these building blocks of intimacy and vulnerability that are shared between therapy, between relationships, between bonds and empathy. And all these things are bringing people into the run club fold. And I think that's why they are so fantastic. For people struggling with loneliness and their mental health, like this low stakes environment, the fact that our attention can be directed towards something else does mean that you don't have to put as much effort and energy into trying to chat people up or trying to talk to people when you are otherwise feeling incredibly drained. But of course, their benefits do go far beyond simply filling our social calendar. They also tap into some brilliant psychological mechanisms that actively boost our well being on an individual scale. So we are going to take a short break, but when we return, we're going to talk about these individual benefits and also maybe some of the downsides that we need to be aware of. So stay with us.
- [20:53]
John Lithgow
Hello, I'm John Lithgow.
- [20:55]
Bob Crawford
We choose to go to the moon.
- [20:57]
John Lithgow
I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast, that's One Small Step for Man. It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.
- [21:07]
Bob Crawford
You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen.
- [21:11]
John Lithgow
That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.
- [21:16]
Gemma
To depression, alcohol abuse and suicide.
- [21:19]
John Lithgow
We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.
- [21:22]
Gemma
What do you say, Buzz?
- [21:23]
John Lithgow
Another beer and triumph over addiction.
- [21:26]
Gemma
Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.
- [21:28]
John Lithgow
Good luck to you and become a true hero.
- [21:31]
Bob Crawford
Buzz and I will proceed into the.
- [21:33]
John Lithgow
Lunar module not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself.
- [21:40]
Bob Crawford
Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.
- [21:42]
John Lithgow
Starring me, John Lithgow.
- [21:44]
Bob Crawford
Can you put it through?
- [21:46]
John Lithgow
Can you Translate on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts?
- [21:52]
Bob Crawford
Columbia.
- [21:53]
Dr. Leitra Tate
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [21:55]
John Lithgow
Through something like that is a traumatic experience. But it's also not the end of your life.
- [22:01]
Dr. Leitra Tate
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leitra Tate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [22:55]
Bob Crawford
American history is full of wise people.
- [23:00]
Gemma
Walt woman said something like, you know.
- [23:01]
Bob Crawford
99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is glory.
- [23:06]
Gemma
Those Founding Fathers were gossipy AF, and they love to cut each other down.
- [23:12]
Bob Crawford
I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history. And I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses, and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption. My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said. It would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
- [24:05]
Gemma
Left a woman behind to drown.
- [24:08]
Bob Crawford
There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News. It's teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become President? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.
- [24:27]
Gemma
And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.
- [24:30]
Bob Crawford
The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [24:41]
Gemma
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Anyone who has ever tried to kind of stick to a solo exercise routine knows that it is very, very tough. You could probably do it, but it's not as enjoyable or perhaps as motivating or there's not as much accountability as when you exercise with other people. And that is where run clubs have a massive psychological advantage in terms of motivation. The mere presence of other people when we are exercising has been shown time and time again in research to boost physical performance. This is known as social facilitation. Running with a group can make you push yourself harder, can make you maintain a faster pace, and it can just simply help with showing up when you otherwise may have skipped your run. I know personally, I run so much better when I'm with others because I kind of forget what I'M doing. My friend Maddie and I, we've actually realized are the exact same pace. Like she's a member of my run club. And when we're running like we have this rule in our run club that we don't have to run together and we kind of just meet back at the end for coffee. But me and her always are like within a meter of each other and I often run so much further and I feel like I can maintain a much steadier pace because she is by my side. You know, when you're on your own, there is so much opportunity for self doubt. But when you're with others, it's like a positive form of peer pressure because you're like, oh my gosh. Here is this example right in front of me of someone proving to me that this is possible and that I am also perhaps capable of doing this. Also a fun fact for you. Achieving milestones as a group actually feels more rewarding than achieving a milestone alone. And so the reward is sweeter when you do run further, run faster and someone is doing it with you. And that reward is what sustains effort over time and what sustains people kind of coming back for more. This is where the concept of the social cure actually comes in. I love this concept. It's one that I talk about so much in my personal life. It was developed by psychologists Alex Haslan and Michelle Ryan. And the social cure theory basically posits that belonging to meaningful social groups, it's not just a nice feeling, it can actually fundamentally determine your physical and mental health. When we strongly identify with a group, it provides meaning and purpose. When there is a shared identity, goals, there's social support. That physical network of people can actually change our health status. It can really boost our self esteem as well. And it can really minimize symptoms, or not minimize, but reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression. We see this time and time again in different communities, in different cohorts of people. When you have more than one social group that you belong to, you feel so supported that your body actually is able to take itself out of survival mode, is able to heal itself, is able to just be more present. Run clubs are an example of this. When you go from I run to I am a runner with this run club, with the Utah run group, with the slow girls run club, with the anti social social run club, whatever it is, that social identity becomes incredibly powerful. This also taps into a very famous idea called third spaces. So third spaces is like an idea that was first kind of labeled by a sociologist, not a psychologist, a sociologist called Ray Oldenburg. And to explain it is basically this. We have our first spaces. That's your home. We have second spaces. That's like our workplace or our school. Third spaces are what is really crucial for our mental health. These are these crucial informal public gathering places that foster community and social interaction and belonging beyond our primary daily obligations. So think coffee shops, think local pubs, think community centers, bookstores, or run clubs. Third spaces are so crucial to us because they provide a positive, neutral ground to meet others. There isn't really ever that hierarchy or specific social role that you would perhaps need to take on at work or even at home. So this often gives way to spontaneous interactions and friendships and. And excitement. And it's in these spaces that you're kind of allowed to be whoever you want to be. I saw this really fascinating article that was published on the site Medium, where the author kind of talked about how third spaces bring back the joy of just being. So in the article, the author talks about how for a lot of us, the pandemic almost blended our first and second spaces together. A lot of us started working from home. A lot of us became remote workers. Home and work life got really, really mixed up. It was hard to distinguish what identity you were holding at any given time with this new dynamic as well. It often made people feel quite monotonous. It felt like they were isolated, they were stuck in their routine. And that is still going on to this day. Third space is, though, and the reason everyone is being driven towards dead spaces, especially after the pandemic and the lockdowns, is because they want to just enjoy being present in a space where there isn't any obligation and where they can just show up as themselves and also just talk to other people and feel like, oh, okay, I'm out of my routine. I've kind of slipped the mask off. I'm just allowed to be. So there's a South Korean philosopher as well called Bang Chul Han, and he talks about this as the concept of duration. So duration as a concept is basically like his antidote to constantly chasing our future. He basically says that we, more than anything else, I kind of don't agree with that. But in his words, more than anything else, we need a break from the rush and the panic of modern life. If we can carve out space and spaces and time in which we can just enjoy doing something for the sake of doing it, or if we can just create ease and appreciation for the moments we get to spend on things that aren't tied to productivity or career progression. We will be a healthier species, we will love each other more, we will love the planet more. It's a big call to say that wrong clubs are a contribution to that, but there is evidence that they most certainly are because they provide people with this break from their reality that allows them to feel, I don't know, almost human again and that allows them to feel like they are someone beyond what people expect them to be. So a lot of philosophy, a lot of sociology, a lot of psychology all coming together. It's so funny. Like perhaps when you started this episode you were like, wow, run clubs can't be that deep. And now we're talking about how they contribute to the meaning of life. But I promise there's research, there is so much research on this. So let's now move into the shadows of this. Are run clubs just a phase? Are they just a fad? Are they just a trend? Some might argue that their recent surge is simply, as we were saying, a post pandemic rebound. And the reason they are so popular is because they kind of came up at the right time when a lot of people are desperate for connection after prolonged isolation. I think whilst the pandemic definitely amplified the need for what run clubs offer, they are also still fulfilling and offering solutions to long standing societal issues. That will mean that them, or some version of them will probably stick around for a long time. However, a trend can only become a sustainable cultural shift in if it continues to meet fundamental human needs in an adaptive way. So this isn't necessarily a concern that run clubs are going to disappear, but that some iterations might lose their core community focus if they become over commercialized, exclusive or focus purely on performance metrics. If every run club is sponsored by Nike, if every run club has, you know, a series of Instagram models promoting them online, they have lost their touch and they have lost their accessibility. There is this idea that a club like a run club can only get so big before people start to create their own smaller versions. Once they reach 200 plus people, perhaps even lower. Like you no longer can kind of know everyone and you no longer feel like you can interact with everyone and you do feel like there's more of a spotlight effect on you. I think a significant potential pitfall that I've personally seen is, is again the lack of, lack of inclusivity. You know, run clubs, despite their open door appearance, I think can sometimes unintentionally or intentionally become really harmful if they're not genuinely inclusive. And if there's this idea that you have to Look a certain way or have a certain pace or be a certain kind of athlete to join them. Now I'm not saying that there can't be run clubs where people are setting incredible paces, but you have to be clear that that's their intention and that this is the kind of standard that is set. But there have been some videos doing the rounds recently. You guys may have seen some of them where people are kind of shaming people who show up to run clubs and don't fit the part. I saw one video in particular where members of a particular run club were talking about their running icks and they kind of mention things that aren't involved in running. Like they're basically like, oh, when people show up with their shitty new balance or when they're wearing a running vest for like their short run or blah blah, blah, blah blah. I saw another video the other day that was like if your pace is below 10km an hour, that's not a run club, that's a walk club. And actually guys, to kind of stir the pot. I saw someone who I know like that video, who runs a so called inclusive fitness club slash inclusive run club. Like I kid you not, I saw that this person had liked it and I was like, I'm never going to that run club again. I was like, I'm no, I'm not going to show up. Because here is this person who like at face value is talking about inclusivity and then their online behaviors are obviously reflecting that their values are quite different. I think basically a run club cannot claim to be something that it is not without incidentally hurting people who might want to gateway into fitness. You cannot say that you have an inclusive run club if someone shows up and they finish and no one is there waiting for them or if someone shows up and they aren't included in the main group and are running. I think a run club should always have someone who is part of the team, who does not care what their pace is. Their only job is to be the last person in the group. So no one ever feels like, oh, okay, I could just stop running right now and leave. And no one would worry about where I was and no one would worry about if I'm even here. That is not the social antidote that run clubs are meant to offer and that they're meant to be. Also I think like any social group, very tight knit cliques can form in these groups and it can make it really hard for newcomers to kind of break in and feel a sense of belonging. And this is even Harder. If a club primarily attracts a homogenous demographic, for example, people from the same race, socioeconomic demographic, age, or people who, you know, have a certain style or a certain vibe or a certain way of communicating or connecting. That isn't always welcoming and isn't always fair. And I'm trying not to give it any more names than that, but I think when I explain it, you know, the kind of situation I'm explaining, right? The kind of people who don't make other people feel welcome. And it's not just that you risk making your run club an exclusive. And it's not just that you risk exacerbating someone else's loneliness. You also risk them not coming back to any run club in the future or any kind of group exercise, you run the risk of also ruining this person's relationship with physical activity in general and seeing themselves as someone who exercise isn't made for. And enjoying fitness and enjoying movement. That's not for them. And if you can hear the passion in my voice, it's because I feel like I was made to feel like that so often when I was a teenager. And even, like, even when I was a kid, like, you know, you're. You don't belong there because you don't fit in with how everyone else looks. Who is doing this? So, sorry, I'm gonna get off my soapbox. But it does really bother me when I see communities online who say that they're inclusive and who are like, have all the merch and have all the branding, and then you rock up and it's like, oh, okay, so this. You don't really want me here. Like, you don't want me here, and that's okay. Just, like, make your Instagram private. Then, like, don't post these big announcements being, like, inclusive run club, everyone show up. If you're not going to wait for the last person in line and if you're not going to say hi and welcome new people, moving on from that, I'm sorry, I've spent too much time on that. Moving on. I think something else can also start to happen that is equally insidious, which is that there is the potential to fall into a comparison trap when running becomes this thing that everyone is obsessed with and everyone is obsessed with optimizing. Even something as wholesome as group running can morph into a form of performance, especially when we add in platforms like Strava, for example. Strava. If you don't know what it is, it's basically social media for running where people can. Or social Media for, like endurance sports or exercise, where you can post the activities you've been doing and it gives you stats on your pace and calories burned and people can give you kudos and whatever fantastic tool I have Strava, I use it for tracking progress, I use it for celebrating achievements, I use it for connecting with my friends. But when every run becomes a public record, when every personal best is measured against another, and every workout is kind of tagged and shared and, you know, located to your area, it can really shift the focus from internal enjoyment to just being another avenue for performance. I have a friend who is literally training for the New York City Marathon and who doesn't use Strava for this very reason. This is a direct feed into social comparison theory, where we often evaluate ourselves relative to others. We can't help it, we cannot help it when these comparisons primarily upward. So you compare yourself to someone who is fitter, faster, seemingly more of an effortless runner. They can trigger feelings of inadequacy and envy and the pressure to do more, to try harder, an overall need to do better, which, if you're just there for fun, isn't always helpful. A 2022 study from researchers in the Netherlands, they actually used publicly available data from Strava to look into running behavior. And in total, they looked at five different Strava Run clubs with over 300 members. And they found the more kudos runners received on their activities, the more likely they were to run more and more often, and actually the more likely they were to be injured. So, yes, kudos fuels our momentum. It can also fuel some other things as well. I think the question then becomes, why am I doing this? Am I doing it for me, or am I doing it for a version of me that I want others to see? And if it is the latter, this can really transform a very joyful activity into a performance. And then you kind of do lose the genuine psychological benefits of movement and community because they are overshadowed by anxiety about pace, anxiety about distance, about appearance, about, like, the relentless pursuit of what it looks like online. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that when health becomes identity, your worth can become tied to your performance metrics. And I think run clubs, with their emphasis on physical achievement at times and visible fitness, which isn't a bad thing on its own, but when that's taken too far, it can inadvertently feed into this feeling. The danger isn't about being healthy. The danger isn't in the social aspect. It's in the obsession with optimized health as a defining characteristic. Of your self worth that can sometimes easily blossom and bloom in these spaces. Like I, for example, I know that I could never be in an ultra competitive run group. In fact, like I said, my run club, like, we don't even run together. We don't compare paces. We don't compare times. I know that I could not be in an environment where it felt like a race because I would push myself way too far and I would feel terrible and I would not enjoy the sport anymore. And I feel like the reason that I've been able to improve as much as I have in the last year, it's because I have been so focused on just enjoying it. I don't have a running schedule. If I don't want to run, I'm not going to do it. And if I find myself comparing to other people's paces, like, I immediately shut it down because I feel like everything else in my life I kind of defined by metrics and I kind of defined by how good am I doing it relative to others and how satisfied do I feel and what should I be doing. I want running to continue to be something that I want to be doing. So with that in mind, we are going to take one more short break, but afterwards, we're going to talk about how to find a run club that's right for you, even if you thought you never were going to be a part of a run club, and how to kind of remember why you started to maintain that joy in the activity itself. Stay with us.
- [44:08]
John Lithgow
Hello, I'm John Lithgow.
- [44:09]
Bob Crawford
We choose to go to the moon.
- [44:11]
John Lithgow
I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast.
- [44:14]
Gemma
It's One Small step for Man.
- [44:17]
John Lithgow
It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.
- [44:21]
Bob Crawford
You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen.
- [44:25]
John Lithgow
That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't predisposition.
- [44:30]
Gemma
To depression, alcohol abuse and suicide.
- [44:33]
John Lithgow
We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons.
- [44:36]
Gemma
What do you say, Buzz?
- [44:37]
Bob Crawford
Another beer?
- [44:38]
John Lithgow
And triumph over addiction.
- [44:40]
Gemma
Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin.
- [44:42]
John Lithgow
Good luck to you and become a true hero.
- [44:45]
Bob Crawford
Buzz and I will proceed into the.
- [44:47]
John Lithgow
Lunar module not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself.
- [44:54]
Bob Crawford
Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission.
- [44:56]
John Lithgow
Starring me, John Lithgow.
- [44:58]
Bob Crawford
Can you put it through?
- [45:00]
John Lithgow
Can you Translate on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:06]
Bob Crawford
Columbia. So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you Talk to There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a.
- [45:17]
Gemma
Pond and left a woman behind to drown.
- [45:21]
Bob Crawford
There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News, it's Teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become President? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.
- [45:40]
Gemma
And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.
- [45:43]
Bob Crawford
The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [45:53]
Gemma
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [46:04]
Dr. Leitra Tate
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [46:06]
John Lithgow
Through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of your life.
- [46:12]
Dr. Leitra Tate
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tritate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harmony, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [47:06]
Bob Crawford
American history is full of wise people. Walt Whitman said something like 99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is glory.
- [47:16]
Gemma
Those founding fathers were gossipy AF and they love to cut each other down.
- [47:23]
Bob Crawford
I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption. My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said. It would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [48:05]
Gemma
I think the final question of the day is how do we engage with run clubs or with any wellness trend for that matter, in a way that is truly healthy, sustainable, and genuinely joyful. It's all about intentionality and I think, remembering why you started. Firstly, try and find the right run club for you. If you really dig into your reason for joining a run club, what comes up? Do you want to push for a pb? There are run clubs for that. Do you want to work out in a relaxed atmosphere? There are run clubs for that. Do you want to be competitive with others? Or do you want a run club where you just actually get to maybe sometimes walk and chat with other people? There are run clubs for that. You know, it's really about seeking out a group that emphasizes the shared experience and the shared goal and just kind of reflecting on the fact that just because a run club wasn't for you doesn't mean that there isn't a better one out there. I'm also a proponent of just creating your own run club. You would be surprised at how many people in your life have secretly always thought that they could be a runner. And the thing is that they absolutely could be. It's just so boring when you have to try and do it by yourself. So if you want to make your own run club, like, just start by showing up at a time and a place every single Saturday, Sunday, Friday, whatever it is, and just invite people to join you. Like, that's really how our run club formed. And oh my God, I'm such a big fan of our run club. It is so inclusive. Everyone has separate goals, but it's just like we are there to have fun. And what it really started as was one friend of ours, our friend Michelle, the one who was training for the New York Marathon, she was running a lot because she's training for a marathon. And our other friend Sarah joined her one day and then I ran into them and then I joined them and then we've just slowly invited people to come along and it is a thing we do every Sunday. We also have walk club on Thursday. And it just means that we basically just get to hang out. And I feel like in the other run clubs I have tried, I just was like, I want to get out of here. I want to leave. So if you can't find a group that works for you, make your own. I think related to this as well And I think it's really important to do this is to regularly check in with your intrinsic motivation. Intrinsic motivation, I think we've talked about this on the podcast before, is the highest, most purest form of motivation. It is the motivation that comes purely from the joy of the activity and the joy you get out of it without anyone else's input. So ask yourself, are you running because you genuinely enjoy the movement? Are you running because you enjoy the feeling of getting stronger and the fresh air? Or as a way to connect with your body? Or is it primarily driven by external validation by comparison or a rigid sense of obligation? That obligation part especially is the easiest way for you to never want to run ever again. If you say to yourself, you have to run and you have to do this and you have to meet that person's pace and you have to hit 10 km on Strava every single week, yes, there is such thing as a goal. But if you're like you should, otherwise you deserve to feel guilty and you don't have any room for explanation or excuses. Watch yourself fall out of love with that thing so quickly. It's something that we see time and time again in any single space or any single hobby or any single area of life. If it is the latter, I think just take a break and try and return to the natural rhythms of your body and the natural desire cycle of your body. Only run when you feel like you really want to and when you're excited to do it. And always run a distance shorter than you think you're capable of doing, especially when you are trying to get into running or come back to running after falling out of love with it. Also, just as a random side note, tip to beginner runners, you can run as slow as you want. You could literally walk and run and walk and run, and that is still a run. Like, that is the biggest tip I give people when they are like, how. How are you running that much? And I'm like, because I literally run so slow that sometimes people overtake me with their strollers. Like the other day I was at the park and a child, capital C child, like, who was literally probably five, lapped me twice. Twice. I don't know if it's even healthy that this child was running that distance. Maybe I was just so slow they really only did two laps. But yeah, like, it. Who cares? Like, if you're putting one foot in front of the other and you're lifting your feet like you are running, as long as you're excited to do it, you are running well, Also, just rethink your relationship to fitness apps, Strava, things like that. I've been really loving the podcast maintenance phase at the moment. I don't really know what kind of podcast it is. It's like a science cultural podcast about diet culture. And I think they did an episode recently about dieting apps and fitness apps and apps like Strava and how if you really want to do something long term, don't rely on those apps to bring you a sense of control over the action or to bring you a sense of achievement. So that is another thing. Maybe go for a run without your Apple Watch or your Garmin. And also don't let a bad run or a missed session trigger self criticism or guilt. Having flexibility towards running, especially in a group situation, is really crucial for long term enjoyment and really crucial for avoiding burnout. And finally, I want to leave you with this huge, huge point. Just show up. You absolutely do not need the latest, most expensive shoes. You do not need the trendiest athletic wear. I wear my ANU women's department shirt that has multiple holes in it and I'm pretty sure has snot in it somewhere. And I'm still running and I'm still doing the physical exercise the way that thousands of people before me and my ancestors have probably done. Like, there is so much amazing high tech gear doesn't make you a real runner and you don't need it to join a run club. The true and only entry requirement is simply just showing up. And I think a lot of new runners feel intimidated by the level of professional gear and how amazing and incredible some people are in the community. Like, you've got to remember, they have been doing this for a long, long time. And each of us has a different relationship with exercise and sport. The social benefits, the physical benefits, the emotional benefits, they are coming not from the running, but from the participation. They are going to occur regardless of your pace, regardless of your equipment, regardless of your attire. Just focus on it as a form of connection, not on esthetics. And if you feel judged for what you're wearing or your pace, you don't need to be there. You don't need to be there. There's a huge boom in the amount of run clubs out there. There is no shortage of other ones that you can attend. And ultimately run clubs are incredible examples of third spaces and incredible examples of parallel play and of community and of our desire for connection and so many other things. They only bring you joy and will only have benefits if you actually enjoy them. So also, I've been sitting here being like, these are amazing. If you don't like running and if you don't want to join a run club, you also can find this in other places. It's really the fact that it's a joint activity that is so powerful. So Pilates, boxing, I don't know. Rock climbing, Craft nights. Very similar as well. Okay guys, I think that's the end of this episode. Oh my gosh. I feel like I have just gone on for so long. I don't know when I got Literally the fact that I made almost a one hour long episode on Running is wild to me. And if you told me that 12 months ago, I would have been shocked. So thank you for joining me for this episode. If you've made it this far, leave a little running emoji in the comments below so I know you're a loyal listener. I want to thank our research assistant Elizabeth Colbert for her incredible contributions to this episode with help and inspiration from Angela Chen. Both of them are amazing. Thank you for their contributions. Make sure to share it with a friend. Share it with your running club if you feel called to do so, or share a post on Instagram so we can repost on our stories at that psychology podcast that is the best place to connect with us. If you want to see what's coming up, if you want to come to a meetup, if you want to suggest episodes, if you want to give feedback, any of those things, I'd love to hear from you. But until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself, go and join the run club and we will talk very, very soon. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know, the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy. It starts, and because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed.
- [58:08]
Bob Crawford
So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
- [58:18]
Gemma
Left a woman behind to drown.
- [58:21]
Bob Crawford
Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [58:31]
Gemma
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [58:41]
Bob Crawford
I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast. You, the listener, ask the questions.
- [58:49]
Gemma
Did George Washington really cut down a cherry tree? Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair?
- [58:54]
Bob Crawford
And I find the answers. I am so glad you asked me this question.
- [58:57]
Gemma
This is such a ridiculous story.
- [59:00]
Bob Crawford
You can listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [59:10]
John Lithgow
Hello, I'm John Lithgow.
- [59:12]
Bob Crawford
We choose to go to the moon.
- [59:13]
John Lithgow
I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast, that's One Small Step for Man, about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.
- [59:22]
Bob Crawford
You're a great pilot, Buzz.
- [59:24]
John Lithgow
That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Buzz, starring me, John Lithgow, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [59:40]
Gemma
This is an iHeart podcast.