339. The psychology of rock bottom

Summary

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The Psychology of Your 20s

Episode 339: The Psychology of Rock Bottom

Host: Jemma Sbeg
Date: October 2, 2025

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Overview

In this deeply empathetic and wide-ranging episode, Jemma Sbeg tackles the concept of "rock bottom"—that universally dreaded low point when everything feels like it's collapsing. Drawing from psychological theories, spirituality, listener stories, and her own lived experiences, she explores why rock bottom happens, how it feels, what it can teach us, and whether it might also serve as an unexpected springboard for growth. Sbeg discusses addiction, identity loss, mental health, spiritual awakenings, and more, aiming to provide validation, comfort, and practical advice for listeners who may find themselves in this painful place.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Rock Bottom (02:30–05:10)

• Personal and Universal:
  Sbeg explains that rock bottom is familiar to most people but has no single definition: “Your rock bottom might not look like mine, and mine might not look like yours.”
• Personal Story:
  She opens up about her lowest points in 2021—double break-ups, losing friends, joblessness, poor mental health, financial disaster, and loneliness.
• Rock bottom can be dramatic (job loss, breakup) or subtle (a slow realization: “I don’t even recognize myself anymore”).

“That pit in the stomach, is what so many of us call rock bottom, that destruction.” — Jemma Sbeg (03:10)

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2. Core Features of Rock Bottom (06:00–13:30)

• Markers of Rock Bottom:

  • Loss of Control and Self:
    Referencing the phrase “crystallization of discontent” from a 2016 paper, she describes rock bottom as a profound loss of identity and orientation.

  • Inability to Imagine the Future:
    Time feels “slow and sticky.” “You can’t picture it getting better. You can’t picture yourself ever not feeling how you feel right now.” This ties to the concept of “future discounting” in depression.

  • Helplessness & Regret:
    Tied to Martin Seligman’s “learned helplessness”—repeated unsuccessful attempts to fix things eventually lead to hopelessness and disengagement.

  • Collapse:
    Often there is a visible “life demolition”: relationships, finances, health, or purpose all fall apart.

“It’s that really painful moment when you realize that who you are on the inside and who you are in the world do not line up.” — Jemma Sbeg (08:06)

• Hope:
  Sbeg reassures listeners: “Rock bottom is not permanent. People cannot live their whole lives in a permanent rock bottom.” (13:25)

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3. How We End Up at Rock Bottom (13:30–17:24)

• Identity Collapse:
  The turbulence of early adulthood destabilizes the “self concept,” referencing Jennifer Campbell’s idea of “self concept clarity.”
• External Locus of Control:
  Passively drifting and believing life happens to you, not by you, increases vulnerability.
• Accumulation:
  Small deferments and unchecked stressors snowball into a sense of being trapped.

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4. Addiction as a Pathway to Rock Bottom (21:21–27:57)

• Broader Than Substance Abuse:
  Addiction includes relationships, chaos, or anything that hijacks the brain’s reward systems.
• Process:
  The addictive “balloon” crowds out all sources of meaning and support, making one’s life about the addiction.
• Social Erosion:
  Relationships, work, and health suffer; people feel isolated and adrift.

“The addictive behaviors basically begin to dominate everything.... It’s like a balloon that is expanding a tight space that leaves not much room for anything else.” — Jemma Sbeg (23:00)

• Spiraling:
  The loss of external structure meets internal breakdown, amplifying the descent.

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5. Trauma, Survival Mode & Emotional Shutdown (27:57–32:15)

• Parallels with Trauma:
  Rock bottom, like trauma, sends the mind into “survival mode”—hypervigilance or emotional numbness.
• Shame & Helplessness:
  Overwhelm turns to withdrawal as a psychological survival strategy.

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6. The Shadow Side: Is Rock Bottom Necessary? (32:15–36:33)

• Spiritual Roots:
  Introduces the “dark night of the soul” (St. John of the Cross)—a spiritual theory that breakdown is preparation for transformation.
• Psychological Echoes:
  Carl Jung: confronting the “shadow aspects” (the disowned parts of ourselves) is necessary for wholeness.

“Carl Jung suggests that these dark nights are actually unavoidable psychological rites of passage that force us to face... the shadow aspects of ourselves.” — Jemma Sbeg (33:50)

• Viktor Frankl:
  Cites “Man’s Search for Meaning”: our ultimate freedom lies in choosing our response, even when all else is lost.
• Post-Traumatic Growth:
  Some individuals report deeper appreciation, new priorities, and stronger relationships after hardship, as theorized by psychologists in the 1990s.

“As paradoxical as it sounds, rock bottom is actually a real fertile ground for growth, purpose, a renewed sense of direction.” — Jemma Sbeg (35:25)

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7. Rethinking the “Requirement” for Hitting Rock Bottom (36:33–40:29)

• Addiction Recovery Myth:
  It is a misconception that one must “hit bottom” to change. Waiting for “rock bottom” can be dangerous.

“Rock bottom isn’t a requirement for change. It’s not at all.” — Jemma Sbeg (36:20)

• Agency:
  Any point of realization (“This doesn’t feel good...”) can be your turning point.

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8. How to Begin Climbing Out (40:29–48:50)

No easy fixes, but practical strategies:

• 1. Allow Grief and Self-Pity
  Suppressing tough emotions only compounds the problem. Feeling loss is necessary for acceptance and action.

“Let yourself grieve and show some self pity. Let yourself be sad for yourself.” — Jemma Sbeg (40:29)

• 2. Name Your Rock Bottom
  Narrative psychology: By recognizing this as a “chapter”—not the whole story—you invite a future perspective, lending the ordeal meaning and boundaries.

• 3. Little Islands of Competence
  Don’t tackle everything at once. Attend to small manageable tasks—“Cook yourself a meal, take yourself for a walk, journal for two minutes.”
  These “small wins” rebuild agency and confidence.

• 4. Zoom Out and Seek Connection
  Counter feelings of isolation by learning from others with similar struggles. “Looking to other podcasts, books... they're all social opportunities for validation.”

• 5. Change Your Environment
  Small cues—new bedding, rearranging your space, taking new routes—can signal to your brain that change is possible and underway, breaking old patterns.

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9. Final Reassurance and Encouragement (48:50–50:25)

• Rock Bottom as a Threshold:
  While it feels like the end, it is more often a pivot to a new chapter.

“There is a version of you in the future looking at you right now, thinking… I don’t think they know how good it’s going to get.” — Jemma Sbeg (49:10)

• “Literally the only way to go is up. You can’t tunnel any deeper... And then your luck begins to change, or you begin to change.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Commonality:
  “There isn’t one objective definition. Your rock bottom might not look like mine, and mine might not look like yours.” (03:00)
• On Life Collapse:
  “Everything you thought was holding you up... has crumbled and you’re kind of left standing in the rubble being like, where do I even start right now? Like, what is the first thing I need to rebuild when everything is on fire?” (11:40)
• On Transformation:
  “Rock bottom is not permanent. People cannot live their whole lives in a permanent rock bottom.” (13:25)
• On Learned Helplessness:
  “We get so tired of trying over and over just for the outcome to stay the same, that we stop trying even when there are steps presented to us.” (10:31)
• On the Dark Night of the Soul:
  “It’s where everything in life kind of falls apart and we are compelled to really confront who we really are.” (33:08)
• On Future Possibility:
  “Transformation is possible. And it happens slowly until you blink— and you are just so grateful for the new life that you’re going to find yourself in.” (49:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Framing the Topic — 02:30–05:10
• Core Features & Personal Story — 05:10–13:30
• Identity Loss & Causes — 13:30–17:24
• Addiction and Its Role — 21:21–27:57
• Trauma, Emotional Shutdown — 27:57–32:15
• Spiritual & Psychological Growth — 32:15–36:33
• Do You Have to Hit Rock Bottom? — 36:33–40:29
• Small Steps to Climb Out — 40:29–48:50
• Empathy and Encouragement — 48:50–50:25

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Tone and Atmosphere

Jemma speaks with compassion, humility, and the acceptance that life can and does fall apart—sometimes repeatedly—but also with an undercurrent of hope and practical wisdom. She normalizes difficult experiences and encourages patience, small changes, and self-kindness.

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For Further Support

Jemma recommends connecting with others, seeking professional support for addiction or mental health at any time (without waiting for a catastrophic “rock bottom”), and gradually shifting both mindset and environment.

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Takeaway:
Rock bottom feels like a final collapse, but in psychology, spirituality, and real life, it often marks the beginning of new growth. You have agency, even in your lowest moments, and support is always possible. As Jemma closes:

“Be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, especially if you are in your rock bottom moment right now.” (50:20)

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Transcript

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[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s. Guys, it's a big one today. I just have to prepare you. We're going to talk about rock bottom. We're going to talk about that moment where you kind of look around at your life and you think, how the hell did I get here? Not in like the cute rom com style sense, but in that stomach dropping way where everything feels like it has collapsed at once. Maybe you've lost your job or the relationship you thought would last forever has just ended, or you are staring at your bank account and the balance can't even cover rent, or all three of those things are happening at once. Or maybe nothing dramatic has happened, but you just woke up one day and realized, hey, I don't even recognize myself anymore. I don't even like myself and I definitely don't like my life. That is exactly what we are diving in today. That moment, that pit in the stomach, is what so many of us call rock bottom, that destruction. We're going to talk about everything to do with this infamous low point. Some of the examples that I can give you, including some from you guys, the listeners, why we get to that point, how we get to that point, as well as looking at how we might interpret rock bottom a little bit differently, to hopefully maybe see it as a little bit of a springboard or maybe as something positive, if that's even possible. The question I'm really just interested in is, is rock bottom actually a fresh start? Is it actually a bit of a trampoline? Or is it a place that we actually all need to get to at some point in our life in order to move to the next chapter? We're gonna talk about it together. We're gonna talk about as well, addiction, the dark night of the soul, if you've heard of that concept, how psychology and spirituality really intersect at rock bottom, chronic illness, so many other things. This episode is broad and wide. If any of you resonate with this topic at the moment. I'm so glad you're here. I'm sending you so much love. I see you. I hear you. I'm glad this has found you. And I will metaphorically hold your hand through the microphone, through the screen for this episode. And I really hope that what we talk about today will provide some solace or maybe just a little bit of understanding in what I'm sure is a very Confusing. Very strange time. I promise it won't last forever. I have been there. And maybe, just maybe, it is preparing you for something more. Let's explore that possibility. So, without further ado, let's get into the psychology of rock bottom. I think part of the reason this idea of rock bottom resonates with so many of us is because we all kind of know what it feels like or we've seen it. It's also incredibly personal. There isn't one objective definition. Your rock bottom might not look like mine, and mine might not look like yours. I know that my rock bottom happened in 2021. I. I definitely talked about this, but I went through two devastating breakups in one year, literally within nine months of each other. I lost about 50 of my friends in the three months after. I moved cities where I moved cities to a place where I didn't have a job. I didn't have anything to do. I didn't know anybody. My mental health was terrible. My bank account was a disaster. I was lonely, I was tired. I was lost. And I can admit now I was probably drinking a little bit too much and everything was just going wrong. I also infamously had another moment like this last year. I've spoken about my mental breakdown in a couple of episodes, and that was another really low rock bottom point. And I know it sounds weird to say, I'm sure that I could probably go lower someday. Part of me thinks that there is another rock bottom waiting for me. Is it terrifying? Yes. I think part of it is also exciting. And I'll explain why. So that was my experience. And, you know, that's just one person. For another person, it could be an addiction spiraling out of control. For another, it's like a quiet collapse of your sense of purpose. One person DM'd me about finding out that her boyfriend had cheated on her the same day she got fired. Another person said it was when she realized she was in a cult. Losing a parent to cancer was another one. Someone said when they realized they were only confident when they blacked out or when they had to move back home with their parents after going into a lot of debt for college. And yet all these are very different, right? But when people talk about them, there are these shared threads, these, like, common emotional fingerprints that help us know, okay, I'm here. This looks like bottom to me. This is the bottom. It can't get any worse than that. Or then what it is right now. Psychologists will tell you there are certain markers that come up again and again when people come into their offices and describe their lowest points. The first and perhaps the biggest, is a loss of control and a loss of sense of self. Maybe you were once the ambitious one, the reliable one, the one who had it all together, and now it feels like, where is that person? You can barely recognize yourself in the mirror. You're not making decisions anymore. Life is just kind of happening to you. There was a 2016 paper published in the journal Academy of Management Review, and it used this phrase to refer to facing rock bottom. It used this phrase, the crystallization of discontent. The crystallization of discontent. Fancy word, but it basically means this point where you just feel a total sense of loss. You feel a loss of self. You feel social disorientation, even failure. And the authors say that this leads to this feeling that you don't even have an identity. It's that really painful moment when you realize that who you are on the inside and who you are in the world do not line up. And maybe you can't find your way back to who you really feel or think that you are or who you were in the past. That's the first marker. The next marker is an inability to imagine the future. At rock bottom, time feels very slow and very sticky. You can't really see beyond the next day. Sometimes you maybe you can't even see beyond the next hour. You can't picture it getting better. You can't picture yourself ever not feeling how you feel right now. Psychologists studying depression describe this as future discounting. Future discounting is where distress literally makes it harder for your brain to project yourself into tomorrow. I'll be the first one to tell you, even if you can't believe it right now, I promise you this feeling won't last forever. It's just the current state that you're in that is convincing you that it will. So there's this future discounting, Then there's helplessness and regret. Maybe you've tried to fix things over and over. You've tried to get your drinking under control. You've tried to find your way back on the right path, but nothing has worked. And now you feel like similar to what we said before, it never will. This connects directly to Martin Silgaman's idea of learned helplessness. Learned helplessness. We've talked about it on the podcast before. This is a psychological state where after we basically experience a number of really stressful events or life experiences, especially experiences where we feel like we have no control, we basically just assume that we don't and we give up. We get so tired of Trying over and over just for the outcome to stay the same, that we stop trying even when there are steps presented to us, even when someone from the outside could say, well, this is exactly what you need to do, we just can't see it. And finally, the final marker of rock bottom often is associated with some kind of collapse. Relationship breakdown, financial hardship, burnout, chronic illness. Sometimes it's all these things at once that collapse can feel like a life demolition. Everything you thought was holding you up, everything that you were relying on has crumbled and you're kind of left standing in the rubble being like, what? Where do I even start right now? Like, what is the first thing I need to rebuild when everything is on fire? So maybe you're listening to this and thinking, oh yeah, that's totally me right now. I'm in that moment. Maybe you've been there before, maybe you're terrified of ending up there one day. Whatever you are thinking, wherever you are right now, whatever you are feeling right now, I think it's important to recognize rock bottom is not permanent. It is absolutely not. People cannot live their whole lives in a permanent rock bottom. We're going to discuss that a little bit more later on, but I just want to give you that reminder so that if rock bottom is where you are right now, as we go into why this maybe has happened to you, you have a little bit of hope for the future. So if you are in this place, you might be asking yourself, like, how did I end up here? When did this begin? One significant cause of rock bottom is that we may have just experienced the entire collapse of our identity and our self concept. This happens actually quite frequently when we first reach adulthood. A particularly useful lens for us to understand is this idea from Jennifer Campbell of self concept clarity. Self concept clarity is essentially how clearly and confidently you are able to say who you are or able to identify who you are. It's the difference between someone who can describe their values, describe their priorities, have a sense of consistency within their goals and how they act, versus someone who feels like they are living out seven different identities and that their whole life is fragmented. When people hit rock bottom, this clarity of self concept often plummets your sense of identity. The lens through which you interpret the world becomes deeply unstable. We can see why that happens a lot in our 20s because things are shifting so rapidly. Things that we often rest a lot of our identity on, like our relationship, like what school we go to, like our job, like our family, and because you don't have anything to anchor yourself to Your internal compass gets kind of thrown off the mark. Now, if you have high self concept clarity, it's not just that you know who you are, it's that you also know what you need. So you are actively able to seek social support. You are actively able to see your way out of a crisis, to nourish good quality relationships. And it might not be that surprising, but research consistently ties low clarity with mental health difficulties and loneliness and also things like anxiety and depression. This is all contributing to this feeling of being at rock bottom. You can see why maybe this has a lot to do with just the decade that you're in, that this is just something that you don't have to experience. But a lot of people are for very similar reasons. Another significant pathway to rock bottom and something that I feel links to losing a sense of identity is living in a passive state. This is often described in psychology as having an external locus of control. This is where we basically end up maybe unconsciously perceiving life as something that happens to us rather than something that we can influence. So you might drift through your days feeling like decisions are kind of imposed on you, that everyone else has these opportunities and they're just kind of passing you by, that every little thing you try to get out of your situation does not work. Over time, this sense of passivity accumulates stress and kind of creates a slow motion resignation to life again. Studies have shown that adults with an external locus of control are more prone to anxiety, depression, and learned helplessness, particularly during major life transitions like those that are common in our 20s. In real life, what that means is that, you know, you hate your job, but you feel like you can't leave. There's no other option. You know, you don't like your relationship or your friendships, but you feel like you will never find anything or anyone better. You know that your mental health is spiraling. You know that you're more anxious than you've ever been. You know that things are going wrong, but for some reason, you cannot seem to find a solution. Small choices get deferred until suddenly you wake up and you feel trapped. Which is of course the predecessor to hitting rock bottom. When looking into the research on this topic, a lot of it centered around the role of addiction. And this can really be caused by and can and contribute to a lot of the factors that we've already mentioned before. And I'm not just talking about an addiction to certain subs is I'm talking about addiction to chaos, Addiction to a certain kind of relationship, addiction to a certain person. 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[Narrator of Havoc Town]

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[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

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[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

We basically, like, we can't talk about rock bottom without talking about addiction. Some would even say that the addiction space is where the idea of rock bottom was really, like, invented or given a name. It is one of the most powerful pathways to this moment or this period of despair and loss. And just like fragmentation, not just because of the behaviors themselves, but because of the cascading kind of effects addiction will have on every part of our life. Again, we're not just talking about substances here. We're not just talking about alcohol or drugs or gambling or whatever it is. There are so many things, relationships, situations that we can become addicted to because in some sense, they give us a feeling of being actually very alive. And when everything's going wrong, sometimes that's the only feeling we want. A lot of neuroscience research, especially the work of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, shows that addiction of any form rewires the brain's reward systems. Normally, normally, dopamine helps us feel motivated. We know it makes us feel satisfied when we meet our goals. We know it helps us experience pleasure. But what addiction does is hijack this system, making it so that the substance that we are engaging in, or the behavior or the relationship or the situation, is the primary source of reward. And so over time, everyday activities that used to bring you joy, like spending time with your friends, exercising, accomplishing goals, hobbies, they lose their appeal. They can't give you the same hit that the substance or this thing can give you. So as natural rewards or long term rewards lose meaning, Self regulation through those things becomes harder and harder. So the only resource we have left or the only coping strategy is to engage in the addictive behavior, Even when it is clearly causing us harm. And with that tension of knowing something is damaging us but feeling unable to stop, it is very easy to see how that spirals and spirals into rock bottom. The addictive behaviors basically begin to dominate everything. They dominate, obviously our life, but they dominate that through our time, through our energy, through what we think about, Meaning that it kind of is like a balloon that is expanding a tight space that leaves not much room for anything else. We also know it erodes the social and structural scaffolding of a fulfilled life. Relationships really do suffer under addictive tension. You know, addiction can lead us to break people's trust, to be irritable, to neglect our relationship, to have arguments. It can also lead to tension at work. You know, jobs may be lost, bills go unpaid, health deteriorates. And as these external supports collapse, people often feel very, very alone, as though the world is closing in. And that's where rock bottom hits. At that intersection of internal and external breakdown, your rewired brain is craving the addictive substance or behavior. And then you also are no longer grounded by support or by things outside of the addiction. It's very easy to kind of float away with it. Addiction is obviously a very fast tracked pathway to this. You don't have to have experienced an addiction in order to feel rock bottom. But it definitely, I think, is a great way of demonstrating how it's this culmination of a lot of things that pushes people to the edge. I will also say rock bottom rarely happens overnight. People can experience severe tragedy, and rock bottom doesn't actually occur until days, weeks, months later, when they realize what they've lost, or when they realize all the other things that have kind of disappeared from their life. So more often than not, it is a gradual accumulation of strain magnified by certain life events, by relationship breakdown, by psychological breakdown, all kind of coming at once. So this is why you might sometimes hear psychologists refer to or compare hitting rock bottom to experiencing trauma. Because similar to when we experience trauma, it can often trigger a state of survival mode. We can be so overwhelmed with kind of what's going on around us or within us, and that we either switch into the state of being on constant high alert and hypervigilance, or alternatively, we completely shut down. At rock bottom, you feel these huge emotions. Sadness, despair, shame, guilt, maybe anxiety, of course, but equally you might actually feel nothing, might feel completely apathetic. Because at the base of it, what's really happening is that we feel out of control. And if we were to meaningfully try and engage with all the things that are happening in our life right now, it would overwhelm us so completely we don't think that we could manage. And so we just kind of turn our back to it. It's not a deliberate thing, It's a survival strategy. And here's where it gets complicated because, yeah, that really sucks and that's really awful and our life is falling apart. But sometimes people interpret rock bottom as kind of a good thing. Some people talk about it like it is kind of necessary. It's a kind of force that demands confrontation with ourselves. We have to get to this point in order to confront deeper things that we may never actually look face on. So you may have heard of this phrase, the dark night of the soul. It originates from a poem from like thousands of years ago, maybe hundreds of years ago, like the 16th century by St. John of the Cross. He was the Spanish priest and he basically used this phrase to describe a spiritual phase where God withdrew his comfort, leaving people feeling lost and alone. With this idea in mind, it was kind of believed that this was a necessary path for spiritually or religious people where they had to kind of shed self reliance and any existing detachments they had in their life to have a deeper connection with God. God puts them in this terrible hard place so that they find him. Of course, that is a very religious and spiritually heavy meaning, but psychologists and spiritual thinkers nowadays use it to describe a lot more than just a spiritual epiphany. It's where everything in life kind of falls apart and we are compelled to really confront who we really are. Carl Jung suggests that these dark nights are actually unavoidable psychological rites of passage that force us to face what he calls the shadow aspects of ourselves. The shadow aspects of ourselves are the thoughts, impulses, fears, patterns, parts of our identity that we habitually ignore or deny that are secretly sabotaging us. And he argued that if we don't ever have these moments of confronting them, the shadow will continue to control us unconsciously and so it's through these painful moments that we are able to actually confront these messier parts of us that are not working. You may have heard the name Viktor Frankl. He is a Holocaust survivor and a psychologist, and he wrote this book, Man's Search for Meaning. And in this book, he basically argued that even when life strips us of almost everything, our freedom, security, purpose, family, there remains one freedom we can never lose, which is the ability to choose how we respond. And so rock bottom, in the sense at this existential crossroads, basically, is when we find ourselves and our true power clearer than we've ever noticed it before. Basically, when the external world collapses, you are forced to dig deep and find true meaning internally. As paradoxical as it sounds, rock bottom is actually a real fertile ground for growth, purpose, a renewed sense of direction. So if we look at it in this light, maybe this is the place where momentum actually begins. There's a blank page in front of you. You've been gifted the chance to start over. And whilst that blank page is terrifying, it can also be liberating. Modern psychology echoes this through the idea of post traumatic growth. We know post traumatic stress. Post traumatic growth, though, is a concept that kind of came to light in the 90s that suggested that people who endure profound struggle, from trauma to illness to loss, to major life changes, to addiction, often report significant positive changes afterwards. This might include things like a deeper appreciation of life, stronger relationships, new priorities, heightened sense of personal strength, and sometimes even a real deep spiritual development. Of course, this is not always going to be the case. We don't want to make like a mass generalization that anyone who goes through trauma is going to come out better than before. But psychologically, from their description, this does make sense. In some cases, hitting rock bottom again disrupts the old ways of being, the routines, the identities that no longer serve us. You really have to evaluate, hey, what do I really care about? What do I really believe in? Is this discomfort a sign that I meant for more? One final way that we can understand this, just to give you a few explanations, is through the lens of crisis theory. And this idea is that when a person faces a crisis so overwhelming that old coping strategies no longer work, they are forced to develop new ones. In other words, we are pushed to a point where we really have to see how deep we can go, and we really have to encounter and really acknowledge and appreciate every single strength that we may have, every single skill that we may have in our toolkit. And the theory is that that actually makes us feel better or more capable in the long run. I've been really into ultramarathon documentaries recently. And just like ultra marathoning in general, as a. As an observer, not a participant, obviously. And something that I've noticed in these documentaries is that so many of these athletes talk about this idea of the pain cave. I first heard about it from Courtney Dollwater, who is my dream guest, by the way. Just the coolest woman ever. If anyone has a hookup, I. She is my number one dream guest. This woman is so cool. She's like, one of the best ultra marathon runners, male or female, in the world. And she describes the pain cave as this, like, point in a race where every single part of you wants to give up. Every single fiber of you is saying, please, can we quit? And yet you find this new reserve of energy and motivation, and you push through. And that is when you discover this whole new level of what you're capable of, but also of who you are. And I love that idea. Like, I don't. To be fair, I don't ever want to be in that situation. Like, this woman is running, like, 500 miles, which I don't even. I can't even compute how actually long that is. But it's so fascinating to see other people discuss it and to see how other people have discovered this. Maybe that's really what this moment is for you. You're in the pain cave. What can you discover about yourself? So a really important caveat here. For people who are experiencing addiction, there is definitely this really strange rhetoric online that says that the only way to overcome your addiction is to find your rock bottom first. A lot of people talk about, you know, what was the moment when you really realized you needed to change? What was the moment where you hit rock bottom, where, you know you did something terrible to your family, or you did something morally despicable or something that disgusted you, and that in itself was like a catalyst for change. I do think that sometimes this can be very unhelpful. Firstly, who gets to decide or define what that rock bottom is? And secondly, it also means that people really struggling with addiction, what they may find is that they feel like they have to push further in order to recover. So, like, aside from the clear health risks of this, people waiting for this elusive rock bottom point may find that it never comes, may find that they can always go deeper, may find themselves further isolating themselves or burning bridges or tunneling further into their addiction to get to this point so that they can rebuild. So if you are facing challenges related to addiction, I just want to say you do not need to wait until the crisis point to get help or to change. Same with mental health as well. At any stage, the moment that you realize, hey, this is really not working for me, this doesn't feel good, why am I doing this? My life isn't happy. You can say to yourself, this is my rock bottom. You don't have to wait until it meets or surpasses someone else's story of rock bottom that to be able to get help. So although rock bottom, as I've described it, can be seen as transformative, I would urge you, if you are struggling with mental health, with addiction, rock bottom isn't a requirement for change. It's not at all. With that being said, if you are here right now, if you are at or near rock bottom, the question really becomes, how do you climb out? I'm sorry, I have to say it. I can't give you an instant fix. I'm sorry. And I cannot give you a neat five step plan that's going to magically restore everything in your life that has been removed or that you have lost, maybe for a reason. But I am going to give you some tools of how to make a start. What happens when Delta Air Lines sends.

[Delta Air Lines Representative]

Four creators around the world to find out what is the true power of travel?

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

I think it helped me sort of like get grounded.

[Aaron Manke (Producer/Host of Havoc Town)]

I think I unlocked some like, childhood dream.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

Turn my stress into excitement. Take that gratitude from those experiences into your daily life.

[Delta Air Lines Representative]

That's why I connected with Dr. Henry Ting, Delta's chief health and wellness officer and instrumental voice behind this travel experiment. Traveling in general is going to give you that social and cultural and psychological and emotional expansion.

[Delta Air Lines Spokesperson]

Yeah, you know, at Delta, we like to say no one better connects the world. It's connecting not just people to destinations, it's connecting people to other people, other cultures, and ultimately experiences that can't really be replicated.

[Delta Air Lines Representative]

Find out more about how travel can support wellbeing on this special episode of the Psychology of youf 20s presented by Delta. Fly and live better. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator of Havoc Town]

There's a vile sickness in Abbas town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien.

[Narrator of Havoc Town]

Get back, everyone. And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town.

[Aaron Manke (Producer/Host of Havoc Town)]

As a warning from Iheart podcasts, And Grim and mild from Aaron Manke. This is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator of Havoc Town]

The Devil Walks in Applesown.

[Host of Brown Ambition]

Hey sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro tell you how to manage your money again? Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem. A year from now when you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union. Shopping around online looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets, I 100% can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt and it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment free money advice, listen to Brown ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Think back to the early 2000s. You're flipping through TV channels and then you hear this.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. How dare you learn something from this?

[Bridget Armstrong]

But looking back 20 years later, that iconic show, so much many of us love, it's horrifying.

[Aaron Manke (Producer/Host of Havoc Town)]

Robyn, first of all, is too old to be starting model.

[Stephanie Beatriz]

She's huge.

[Bridget Armstrong]

I talked to cast, crew and producers who were there for some of the show's most shocking moments.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

If you were so rooting for her.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Why don't you help her with never before heard interviews? The Curse of America's Next Top Model examines why this show was so popular and where it all went wrong.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Listen to the Curse of America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

First. And some people won't like that. I'm gonna say this, but first let yourself grieve and show some self pity. Let yourself be sad for yourself. I think this sounds and feels counterintuitive because the current culture around us really forces this toxic positivity onto us all and tells us that you are not supposed to let yourself suffer or to feel hard emotions or to feel bad for yourself. Suppressing emotions doesn't mean they disappear. It doesn't mean they don't exist. It actually just makes them even stronger and likely to pop up in other ways. If you're in this position, you've likely had to let go of a lot, you have likely lost a lot, you have likely really suffered. Grieve these parts, feel those emotions. Maybe it's also a way to counteract this numb state that you found yourself in. You can't process an emotion if you never feel it. So if you're at rock bottom, you're allowed to sit in self pity for a little while. That is part of acceptance. It's also part of processing and therefore being able to act and move on from this moment. Second, we've talked about this a few times. Acknowledge that this is your rock bottom. Narrative psychology shows us that the way we frame our life stories shapes our well being and how we view our lives. And that is incredibly important. When you say to yourself, yes, this is it, this is my rock bottom, you're not just naming your pain, which is obviously important, but you're also situating it so it becomes a chapter of your life, not the whole book. And that shift in perspective from this is the end my life sucks to this is just part of my story, an important part of my story. The dark night of my soul can soften the pain that you're feeling, or at least give it a meaning or a reason. It transforms rock bottom from this infinite pit that we know comes from future discounting into this definable moment that allows you to kind of almost project into the future and realize like, in hindsight, maybe I'm going to see this differently. Maybe not right now, but maybe in the future. Next, seek out what we call little islands of competence. At rock bottom, everything feels overwhelming. Where do I start? What's the first step? What do I do? The future is very blurry. The big picture is way too much to handle. So don't, don't handle the big picture. Focus on the small wins. Focus on one thing you can do today that is going to increase your coping, increase your productivity, increase your relationships, improve things for you. You don't need to put the added pressure on yourself to like overhaul your life in a night or in a week, or to bounce back and be like the happiest person alive and that there is some kind of timeline that you need to get over this within a month or it's going to last forever. Just pick one small thing you think you can control and do that for yourself today. Cook yourself a meal, Take yourself for a walk, journal for two minutes. Even tiny moments of success begin to restore your sense of inner agency, competence, and confidence. They remind you, like, hey, yeah, I can't control this big, terrible mess that I'm in. But I can decide that I'm going to go and order ice cream tonight. I can decide that I'm going to get out of the house and do some exercise. I can decide that I'm going to book this appointment with my doctor. Those things snowball into bigger things over time. Fourth and maybe this actually should have been third, because I think it links to our. I think it links to one of the things, one of the tips I gave above. But just see your situation in. In the context that it's actually existing, rather than the context that you've created for it. Zoom out a little bit. It's natural to feel like no one could possibly understand what you're going through, but I think this is one way in which comparison might actually be a good thing. It can be really helpful to look at others who face similar struggles to normalize your own experience. You know, a few months back when I released that episode, talking about my mental breakdown, oh my God, I was so scared. And I was also in a terrible place. But the amount of comments and messages I received from people saying it had helped or that they were going through the same thing was amazing. And guess what? It made me feel better. Just the idea that this was not something that I had to experience alone or that I was not the only person in the world who had this feeling, felt great because I didn't feel lonely or isolated in my experience. So, looking to other podcasts, to books, to interviews, whatever it is of people who are going through the same thing, they are all social opportunities for validation of what you're going through. They are also living proof that other people have had challenges and they found their way through. That's vicarious learning, right? A vicarious form of validation of like, hey, if they were okay, maybe I will be as well. Last, but certainly not least, change your environment. I'm not saying move to a new city straight away. In fact, there have been studies that have shown that your problems will follow you there. But sometimes you just need small environmental shifts that signal to your brain that a fresh start is Underway. And also, maybe you can move to a new city. It might not fix all your problems. Maybe it will fix one problem. And maybe that one problem is where everything is stemming from. Just change your surroundings. Environmental psychology shows us that our environment shapes our mindset. So rearranging your room, buying new bedding, taking a different route to work, spending more time in nature. These small cues can help break old associations and create space for new patterns. Because you're not in the same environment, they tell your brain and your nervous system, hey, things are different now. Look around us. Things are different, which does make change feel more possible. Making those really small changes in your routine leaves less room for old patterns and behaviors to resurface. And that is what gives you a fresh approach to life. Rock bottom is truly terrifying. It can feel like the end of everything we know. And yet, I want to remind you again, across psychology, philosophy, across spirituality and religion and lived experience, we see that it's not the end. For a lot of people, it is the pivot. It's the threshold. It's the trampoline. If you are here right now, I promise you that there is a point in the future. There is a version of you in the future looking at you right now, thinking, gosh, I don't think they know how good it's going to get. I don't think they know this isn't the end. Even if you can't see it yet, even if the fog hasn't lifted, transformation is possible. And it happens slowly until you blink. And you are just so grateful for the new life that you're going to find yourself in. I'll be the one to tell you that even if you don't believe it at the moment, you're going to be okay. I've been there. And sometimes when you hit rock bottom, literally the only way to go is up. You can't tunnel any deeper. Everyone has a point where they're like, they really hit their threshold for what they're able to tolerate or what life can give them, and then their luck begins to change or they begin to change. So I feel that for you, I know you're going to be okay. I know that this moment is terrible, but it's also influential. So just wishing you luck and wishing you happiness in the future and hoping that this episode resonated with you, whether you are in your 20s, in your 30s, in your 70s. I always feel like there's capacity for us to change and that these moments cannot be our whole life. So thank you so much for listening. I also appreciate everyone who DM'd me with their rock bottom experiences and contributed to this episode. I found them really quite emotional and revealing to read and they definitely informed how I approached this episode. So I appreciate you guys sharing with me. I also want to thank our wonderful researcher Libby Colbert for her contributions to this episode. She is just like the most fantastic individ and I'm so lucky that we have her on the team now. So thank you Libby for your research and for your fact checking and for finding some cool studies for this episode. As always, wherever you are listening right now, make sure that you are following along. Give us a review. Give us a rating. Especially if you're on Apple Podcasts, leaving a review really helps the show to grow. Yeah. And just find new people. So I would really appreciate if you feel called to do so if you if you would kindly do that. Make sure also that you are following us on Instagram at thatpsychology podcast. It's a great way to kind of see what we're up to, see updates, get summaries of these episodes, and to ask questions or suggest episodes you may want to hear. So until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, especially if you are in your rock bottom moment right now. We will talk very, very soon.

[Stephanie Beatriz]

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[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

Awkward.

[Stephanie Beatriz]

And yet their membership costs more than Walmart. Double awkward. Walmart plus members save 10 cents per gallon at over 13,000 locations. Who knew Walmart Switch and save today $139 prime annual fee versus $98 Walmart plus annual fee gas at participating stations 5 cents in Alaska and Oklahoma.

[Narrator of Havoc Town]

There's a vile sickness in Abbas town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

[Aaron Manke (Producer/Host of Havoc Town)]

From iheart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. This is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll know, never forget.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. The new podcast from hello Sunshine and I heart Podcasts where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks to find out more.

[Bridget Armstrong]

I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new podcast the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia issues by talking to the models, the.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Producers, and the people who profited from it all.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich. If you were so rooting for her and saw her drowning, why don't you help her?

[Bridget Armstrong]

Listen to the Curse of America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host of Psychology of Your 20s]

This is an iHeart podcast.