← The Psychology of your 20s
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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks you any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, each episode features real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health expert you probably see the most breaking down the questions you wish you'd asked from which medications might not mix well to what vaccines do I need for my next big trip? They'll bust myths, decode trends, and share practical advice you can actually use. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And and this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed I'll be honest with you all. Life as someone who is self employed is unpredictable and having flexibility with my finances is key. The Klarna Card is an upgraded debit card that lets you choose how to pay now or later, keeping you in control. The Klarna Card works anywhere Visa is accepted and there is no credit impact. To apply, sign up for the Klarna card by downloading the Klarna app or learn more@klarna.com US Klarna card Klarna Card Pay Later Plans issued by Web Bank Deposits in your balance account are held at Web bank member FDIC anywhere Visa is accepted. Certain merchant products, goods and services restrict and supply. Some merchants do not accept virtual cards, physical card only included with the paid Klarna membership plan.
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Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used.
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To feel more fun.
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But here's a confession Dirty Rush listeners. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. You all know I love a good find. I actually scored a vintage Saint Laurent blazer and a pair of Gucci heels that still had the dust bag there.
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Is always more to discover.
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Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay's authenticity guarantee.
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EBay Things people love Finding a therapist is hard enough, but finding one who actually takes your insurance. That is where most online therapy platforms fall short. But Ruler does things differently. They partner with over a hundred insurance plans making the average copay just $15 per session. That is real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. Thousands of people are already using Ruler to get affordable, high quality therapy that actually is covered by their insurance. Visit ruler.com gemma to get started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's r u l a.com, you deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Hello everybody, I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
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Foreign.
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Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode. As we of course break down the psychology of our 20s today, I hope you are ready for a big episode, a very long episode, an incredibly interesting episode. We are talking about the psychology of plastic surgery. We know that there is this huge intersection between plastic surgery and psychology, between plastic surgery and insecurity, social conditioning, social media, self confidence. And sometimes it stirs up a lot of debate online and in our own conversations. I've always wanted to do an episode on this, but I am not an expert. So I thought I would bring on somebody who most certainly is. Somebody who has decades of experience navigating this industry, navigating the emotions to do with plastic surgery. Navigating every single little bit and part of yeah. Of this experience and of this. Of this process. So I'm so excited to have him on board for a super interesting conversation. Whatever you believe. I just feel like you can learn so much from how he approaches this. What we talk about, the nooks and crannies that we get into. So without further ado, let's talk about the complex, interesting, incredibly fascinating psychology of plastic surgery. Dr. Radi Raban, welcome to the show. Can you introduce yourself to the audience and just tell them a bit about who you are and what you do?
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Sure. My name is Roddy Rabban. I'm a board certified plastic surgeon out of Beverly Hills. In California, in the United States, I've been a board certified plastic surgeon practicing predominantly, I would say aesthetic surgery for over 20 years in this sort of epicenter of Beverly Hills. And I've done. I kind of uniquely find myself doing all aspects of plastic surgery. Usually the minute you tell someone you do plastic surgery, their next question is, oh, really? Okay, great. What do you specialize in? And I kind of find myself a little bit of a unicorn in that I literally do face, nose, eyelid, breasts, bellies, et cetera, et cetera. So I do the gamut of plastic surgery.
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This is a question I've always wanted to ask a plastic surgeon, which is, how did you find yourself in this industry, in this space? Like when you went and did your MD or I don't know what the process is in the US did you know you wanted to do plastic surgery or did you just kind of like trip and fall into it?
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That's a great question. The answer is that people go about it in both ways. Some people know early on, I would say most sort of find themselves trip and fall into it. I always, always wanted to do something in design fusion with science. You know, I actually wanted to be a mechanical engineer for a period of time and then I wanted to be an architect. So plastic surgery was the minute I decided. I went to college at ucla, which is down the street from my home, and I went in as a biochemistry major just simply because I liked science. And science came pretty naturally to me. But I always knew that I need to do something in the design, aesthetic, creative realm. But I had a very strong liking towards the sciences, mechanical and civil engineering. So when you actually really, really think about it, plastic surgery is that beautiful fusion. And then I always loved entrepreneurship. I love business, I love, you know, VCs, I love shark Tank. And then when you think about plastic surgery, it is actually the perfect tricycle. It's, you know, business, medicine and design all merged into one. And for you to be arguably successful, you need to sort of excel in all three categories. If you imagine one of those wheels being smaller than the others, you're not going to get very far. So it was actually the minute I got to undergrad, I knew pretty quickly that I wanted to do something in the medical space. And the only thing in medicine that allows you this degree of latitude in the creative element really is plastic surgery. Not orthopedics, not obgyn, not pediatrics. So it was plastic surgery or bust.
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That's so interesting that you say it's like almost a creative part of Medicine. And I feel like when I first hear that, I'm like, wow, that sounds, that's like actually, that sounds strange. And then I'm like, well, yeah, you are, you're like sculpting the body and changing it to match someone's vision for how they want to look, which is the fact that they're putting their care in your hands to execute their vision is also pretty amazing. Like, there must be a great deal of trust in that as well for you to have these people come.
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Yeah, I mean, I actually take it with great reverence and a certain degree of stress associated with it. You know, I think the sign of a great surgeon is one who has a certain degree of humility and fear. And that fear is, you know, you say people are God fearing and that, you know, they have respect for something outside of themselves. And so when people come to you and they say, you know, whether it's a young girl or a young gentleman or an older person or what have you, and there's something about themselves that doesn't. Isn't congruent with the way they see themselves and they ask you to help them get there. It's a very sizable responsibility. And so I take it as such. So I have always been in awe with what I get to do on a daily basis. I never take it lightly.
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One more iceberg, a question for you. And I don't know if this is, if this is a weird question and you cannot answer it if you don't want to. What was the first surgery that you performed as a, as a plastic surgeon? Do you remember?
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Of course I do. I remember it vividly. So I've been in practice now 20 plus years. And you know, every pilot, every police officer, every, every person does has a first of something, right. The first time apply plane. And you think to yourself like, okay, but like those other jobs, like, who cares if you mess it up, who cares if you it up? But with surgery, the first person is, you know, you know, it's gonna have to. Is the one who, who, who is your icebreaker. So the first surgery I did actually was a breast augmentation. A very dear friend of mine, who I adore and was at my wedding and is still a very close friend of mine, always had great faith in me. And she sent me one of her friends who had had a few kids and I ended up doing a breast augmentation on her. And I remember her very, very well because she was so sweet and so bubbly. She had had four children. And yeah, I did my first case was a breast. First breast dog. And it actually went quite well. Yeah, she's still sending me patients, so I think it was a success.
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Well, that's good. Moving on to like, the actual questions around the nitty gritty of plastic surgery. One thing I feel like we need to get out of the way, slash, discussion, discuss is the difference between plastic surgery and cosmetic procedures or cosmetic surgery. I'm of the. I feel like, I think they're kind of different. Am I wrong in that or are they quite similar?
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So I think you ask a very good question. If the goal of today's episode is to educate and elevate people's understanding, then you got to understand the Alphabet soup, you got to understand the vocabulary, you got to understand the glossary of plastic surgery. And so unlike all other fields, plastic surgery is very confusing. And that's not by accident because ultimately a lot of it is driven by marketing. Marketing. You don't get confused. When you have an arrhythmia and your heart is not functioning correct, you go to a cardiologist. There's no confusion on that. When you have a ovarian cyst, you go to your ob, gyn, your gynecologist, your obstetrician. There's no confusion in that. But in the area of cosmetics, my God, there are thousands of different providers with all kinds of names and things like that. So the way it works is as follows. When you go, at least in the United States, when you go to medical school, you are all equal. And then you have to select a specialty. You say, okay, when I'm done with my four years of med school, I'm going to be a again, orthopedist, neurologist, psychiatrist, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And one of those is a plastic surgeon. There is no cosmetic surgery residency. There is no there, it's just plastic surgery. There are dermatologists and there are ear, nose and throat doctors, but cosmetic surgery is not a residency. You then go into being a plastic surgeon. And in your training, which is quite diverse, one of the things that you learn is aesthetics, beauty, cosmetics. So you'll learn burn surgery, you'll learn reconstructive surgery, with microsurgery, you'll learn hand surgery, blah, blah, blah, blah, and one of them is beauty or aesthetics or cosmetic surgery. Then if, when you graduate, you decide, you know what, I really like cosmetic surgery, I really want to specialize in this in my career, then you will take additional training, but you will be a board certified plastic surgeon who specializes in esthetic surgery, which is What I do then comes, you know, years go by and then the field of medicine, naturally, like all other businesses, is driven by money. Non cosmetic things like my gallbladder, my hernia becomes poorer and poorer. So what that does is it drives people who are not trained in aesthetic surgery to then change directions mid, mid game and say, you know what, I can do this. How hard could this be? And then they then start to take any, any, any variety of lessons, whether that be online, watching a friend, going to courses, whatever they want. And then overnight they can deem themselves as cosmetic surgeons. I know that's hard to imagine. I know it's really like, no, come on. And so if you go look at cosmetic surgeons and you start to say, okay, well where, what is your actual training in? You will find out that they were general surgeons, they were OB GYNs, they were radiologists, they were ER physicians, and at some point in their career they decided I don't want to do this shit anymore. And then they get whatever degree of training which is not very regulated and then they call themselves cosmetic surgeons. So the answer is your listeners need to sadly do their homework.
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Effy. Yeah, and I, I agree with that entirely. And it's so interesting to hear like behind the scenes of like the labels and like you said, the Alphabet soup. I also just think like if you're going to permanently change the way you look and undergo surgery, it's not something necessarily to skimp on or to cut corners with. So you bring up a very interesting point which is like think this through. And there's multiple sides to think through. Before I go further in that kind of direction, you know, we're talking about plastic surgery specifically in our 20s. Really. I just have to ask, how many people are getting plastic surgery in their twenties? What is the most popular age group that you see that get gets work done.
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So that's very interesting. So it turns out that every decade has its more common procedures, I will say more than ever before. Younger and younger patients are coming in to get surgery. Why is that? Social media. The end. We've always had young people having surgery. My sister who's almost 60, had her nose done 30 some odd years ago. My mom who's 85 had her nose done 60 years ago. So it wasn't crazy to go to nose job. But this idea of Bella hadid, cat eyes, mini facelifts, lip lifts, I mean there's an bbls, lipo, fat transfer, rib remodeling, there's some crazy things that are getting done and they're Getting done younger and younger. The only reason that is occurring is social media. That being said, you know, there's things that happen at different ages in our life. So let's start with 20s. What are the things that people come in commonly for their twenties that are within reason and what are some of the fad things that I think are a little overboard. If you're 20 year old young lady and your breasts never really fully developed and you find that while you love your body and you think everything about yourself is amazing, you work out and everything, but you just simply never develop much breast tissue, then getting a breast augmentation is not an unreasonable concept. And that happens often in your 20s. If you were born and you were unlucky and your nose just was crazy out of balance with your face and you inherited his big nose and otherwise were a beautiful young lady, doesn't seem crazy to alter your nose and get a rhinoplasty that happens in your 20s. If you were born with a very weak chin just because genetically, orthognathically you never developed and you have a massive underbite, it's not crazy to get a small chin implant or an enhancement of your chin to create harmony and balance that happens in your 20s. Conversely, now we're getting people calling about brow lifts at your 20, lip lifts, facelifts, neck lifts, rib remodeling. Those are some really extreme surgeries that are not, were never really designed or really indicated for young adults. So I think the question you're going to lead to eventually is where's the line? Right? And the answer is who knows? And that line is Drizz is, is drawn by both surgeon and patient. But I, I don't know if that answers your question, but those are, those are often the surgeries that are getting done.
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I think it. No, it totally does. And I feel like this is an even broader discussion of like, what is the point where you get something done because it is a genuine deep insecurity for you. And then what is the point you get something done where there is genuinely nothing wrong and genuinely nothing that a surgery could actually do. Like you're saying a brow lift for someone who is, you know, 22 or 23. And I feel like that's where the entrance of social media has probably greatly, greatly swayed people. How have you seen facetune or Instagram dysmorphia dysphoria change how people perceive normal beauty? Like you mentioned some of those really extreme procedures. Are you also seeing younger people coming in for perhaps more surgeries than they need so like repeat people coming in and changing back to a certain way or, you know, redoing their nose or redoing their eyes or redoing their cheeks multiple times in the span of years. I'm curious to see how you've seen the impact of this even further.
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Okay, so we got to start with the psychology of beauty, Plain and simple. This is well before any social media. This goes back to Cleopatra, this goes back to the Amazon. You know, you go to the Amazon right now with a bunch in a tribe where no one's seen any human beings outside of the Amazon. And there you're going to know who the queen of the tribe is. She's the one with the most beautiful neck. And the, you know, beauty is not a concept of modern times. Beauty is something that we know. There's tons of studies that show that like monkeys will go to the more, more attractive puppet than the other, than the other puppet. So there is an inherent built in us to desire to, you know, it comes from mating, right. Animals in the wild will go to the more attractive bird or the more attractive flower. So there is that and then there is this turbocharged version, this version where you have this sort of innate being in our beings as people, this desire to look good or feel good or present our best, and then you pour gasoline on it. And I think that's essentially what social media has done in modern society. We've had billboards, we have actors and actresses, we had magazines, we had celebrities, we had models. This has existed for over 200 years, right? And you know, oh, I think Marilyn Monroe's so beautiful. Oh my God, look at Grace Kelly. And it always sort of. People admired and wanted to sort of emulate some of these people, but it was still manageable because those people were those people like, oh, I really want to go to this place. I see in this postcard. It's a real place, right? You can actually go there.
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Yeah.
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And then we get into the modern world where manipulation, alteration, fabrication, whether it's AI, face, tune, filters, angles and morph. And then reality changes. And because inherently we are vulnerable, right? We're all vulnerable. 16, 17, 18, even grown ass adults are immature and have insecurities. Then you massively, at a very high level, you start bombarding people with images, right? Social media, you'd see a billboard while driving. Let's say you drive on Sunset boulevard, you'd see 25 billboards over five miles. You need now see 25 images within five seconds.
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Yeah.
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And these images are bombarding you. Secondly, they are not real. So you're looking at a destination like, oh, my God, look how beautiful these trees and the water. There is no place there. This island doesn't exist. It's. It's not a real island. She doesn't look that way. No, look. Look at Kris Jenner. Look at the, look at the excitement that Kris Jenner generated with her facelift. Right? There must be 1 trillion views or comments. Well, yes, she looks good, but the reason she looks so good is she face tuned every image that's come out over the last six months. And now that her images, she cannot stay up on it, people are noticing that she doesn't look as glossy and amazing as she did the first couple of months because she's face tuned everything. So people are thinking that, wait, you have flawless skin. No, she doesn't have flawless skin. She's almost 70. She has a good facelift. She looks amazing, but she doesn't have flawless skin. So what I'm getting at is there's this balance between what is reasonable and what is organic and what is part of humanity. And then there's this gasoline that you poured on this, this smoldering part of us, and then it's gotten out of control. And then what happens is 90% of us are subject to being impacted. And so when you are immature and you're vulnerable and you're 13 or 12 or 8 or 9 or 16 or 17, and almost every human being goes through a little awkward time, Their voice is changing, they're growing hair in places they shouldn't be growing, whatever. You look at these images and you get FOMO and all this sort of sense of like, oh, wow, I'm so far from that. My God, how ugly am I? And you're so far from a place that doesn't exist. And there's an amazing saying is so it creates what? Sadness? Depression, Anxiety. And there's a very great saying. It says that your happiness is based on the delta between where you are and where you think you ought to be. I'm gonna repeat that. Your happiness is based on where you are and where you think you ought to be. So you. You are here. I make X. I look like this. I, this is my wife. And where you think you ought to be is the relativeness of where you think you could be and when where you think you could be should be. Flawless skin, with an amazing boyfriend, living on a boat, driving a Rolls Royce, blah, blah, blah, skinny body, big butt, small waist. Then you are far, far away from that, which then leads to feeling Sad, depressed, anxious. And then what you do is you chase it. And that's where we are today. And so I think that the amount of mental dissatisfaction and sadness amongst insecure people ranging from 8, 9, all the way up to grown ass adults, is so massive. And I really, really think social media is to blame it' Plastic surgery, it's not the chase to be beauty. It's the fact that you're creating these alternative universes that will never exist. It's like porn. It's not real.
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Yeah, no.
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So anyways, that's the problem.
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Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. And I agree with you as someone who has seen that happen to me in my own life where I've been like, wow, this person is just so amazing. If I had that, wouldn't all these other things change? And we know like psychologically and I'm sure you know this as well. Obviously, like with hedonic adaptation, you could have surgery, it might change your life. Normally you are actually going to return to a baseline level of happiness. It's exactly what you were saying about, you know, Kris Jenner got this, this surgery and I'm sure for her she was thinking this will, this will be the one that eliminates all insecurity. And yet she still face tunes and yet there's probably still things she doesn't like. There's like an inner critic in all of us that social media and the, the unrealisticness of beauty is really kind of promoting. This kind of brings me to, I think probably one of the more controversial questions of this interview. We're going to take a short break and then when we return, I'm going to pose it to you. So stay with us. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist has asked you, do you have any questions? And your mind says suddenly just goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you probably see the most answering the questions you wish you'd asked sooner, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you get before your big overseas trip? Even those questions you are sometimes a little bit too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures, just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or ever you get your podcasts. If anyone understands how chaotic life can get and how important flexibility with your finances is, it's me, especially as someone who was self employed. Some months are stacked, some months are not. That's why the Klarna card is such a smart tool for me. It's a debit card that lets you decide how to pay upfront like a normal debit card, or plan ahead to pay later. Choose how you want to pay before you buy so you're spending with purpose and staying in control. The Klarna card works anywhere Visa is accepted and there is no credit impact. To apply, sign up for the Klarna card by downloading the Klarna app or learn more@klarna.com US KlarnaCard Klarna Card Pay later Plans issued by Webbank Deposits in your balance account are held at Webbank Member FDIC anywhere Visa is accepted. Certain merchant products, goods and services restrict and supply. Some merchants do not accept virtual physical card only included with a paid Klarna membership plan hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed we all know at this stage finding a therapist is hard enough, but finding one who actually takes your insurance? That is where most online therapy platforms fall short. Ruler does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just $15 per session. That is real therapy from a licensed professional and at a price that actually makes sense. And Ruler it isn't just affordable, the experience is tailored around you. Other online therapy platforms might match you with the first available provider, whether or not they are the right fit. Ruler considers your goals, considers your preferences, considers your background to make you a curated list of licensed in network therapists who are actually aligned with what you need. Thousands of people are already using Ruler to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit ruler.com gemma to get started and after you sign up you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know that we sent you. That's r u l a.com Gemma, you deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. It's so hard to feel your best when your gut feels out of balance. You may know about chlorophyll. It's responsible for how plants harness the power of the sun. But now you can enjoy its power with chlorophyll stick packs from nature's sunshine. They're a convenient way to support your gut health and help your body feel full of energy. It's such a simple addition to my day that is backed by science, doesn't require a crazy cleanse or any gimmicks, which personally I love. Also, it tastes delicious. I especially love the apple flavor. It's so crisp and refreshing and I like bringing them with me when I'm traveling. I know my gut health isn't going to be at its best, but. But these chlorophyll stick packs aid digestion, they provide antioxidant support, they freshen from the inside out, naturally neutralizing odors and they promote cellular health, all whilst using natural ingredients. Support your gut health with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order plus free shipping. Go to naturesunshine.com and use code Psych at checkout. That's code psych@naturesunshine.com this is the question I want to ask. Can someone be truly body positive and still want to change how they look? Is there, I guess, something that surgery can never fix within somebody?
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So the answer is, let me get, let me make sure I understand the question. Can somebody truly love themselves, as we say today, be body positive? I think I'm amazing. And still find benefit from a surgery. Is that what the question is?
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A
I think still find benefit from a surgery or still find themselves thinking about a surgery? Does thinking about surgery? No. Go ahead.
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B
So the answer is absolutely yes. So that would equate the ideal patient. The ideal patient is one who comes to you who is otherwise very happy in their life. They have stability in their interpersonal relationships. They come in with a very finite issue, one that can be easily be agreed upon and as a result, the correction or the eradication of that one very specific issue can for sure, and I have now witnessed it for 20 plus years, dramatically change, enhance and improve the quality of life of that person. So let me give you such examples. So you see a young lady and they come into your office. I refer to my four nieces and they are boss ladies. One's in law school, one's a venture capitalist, they played sports, their soccer, one was valedictorian by all intensive purposes, kicking ass boyfriends, everything. Love their moms, just a great, like great, great girls. Yet because of genetics, while they are beautiful and have great skin and nice teeth and everything, with all fairness, all four of my niece had bad noses. And so these four nieces of mine on their own really dislike their noses. Every other aspect of their lives were kick ass on 90th percentile whatever. So we, we sat down individually and I mentioned them because there's so four different young ladies of all different ranges. And we identified the issues, we had discussions and we said, okay, if we alter your nose and create a better harmony, not perfection, not the nose on Angelina Jolie, or let me see what Margaret, a better looking nose on you, would this create a little bit a better appearance and hence make you happier? And the answer is all four of them, all four of their noses were done at different times in their lives, different ages. All four of their noses still have flaws, because I'm a critic and I know and all four of them are over the moon about their noses and hence moved on and never looked back. So nothing about the way they love themselves has holistically changed, but that one entity about themselves is significantly improved, which then adds to their overall confidence. Could they have lived life without it? Sure. Had they not had the means, would it have drastically changed their lives? No. But the fact that they were lucky enough to be able to afford it, have a surgeon who executed it, and it ended up being positive has unarguably changed your trajectory, their life, and I can tell you that 95% of my patients, their lives have been massively improved by whatever surgery they did, whether it was a mommy makeover after having multiple kids. And I can give you stories behind these people. So if you've had three kids, you kick ass, you love your husband, your husband loves you, your children are healthy, you do yoga, you go fix your body and now your insides match your outsides. No amount of diet and exercise would have changed it. Right? So these are such examples that connect with stories. We are very good at isolating. Oh, you should just love yourself, your husband should love you. This is all nonsense. So the answer to your question is when a patient is a good patient, a well qualified patient, and has a stability around themselves and we're fixing a very finite issue, then yes, I do think they can be Body positive and yet still have a dramatic improvement in their life.
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A
Effy, I find that interesting because I, I definitely see the point. But what with, with your nieces, like, what made them bad? What made them bad noses? Or like what made the body of the. Of the woman who's given birth a bad body? Like you mentioned that they. These women were already in the 90th percentile, and this woman already had everything she wanted. What do you think it was about changing this bad part of them or this, I guess, you know, part of them they didn't like, that that meant something to them. Do you know what I mean?
- [36:02]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. The first question is defining bad. Bad is a relative term. Like tall is a relative term. Good is a relative term. I use the word in a very simple fashion, but it's. It's. It's much more complicated than that. First of all, I'm not the one that tells them it's bad. So let's be very, very clear. These people come to me. I don't. They don't come to me and say, hey, Dr. Bond, how you doing? Great. So what do you think of me? I go, well, you look pretty good, but your nose is bad. That's not how this goes. This is a person who has been dwelling on this subject matter for years, seeks out help, comes to the office, and I say, how can I help you? And they say, well, I'm not so happy about my nose. What is it about your nose that you dislike? Well, I don't like this huge hump. I don't like that it's droopy. I don't like that my tip is massively bulbous. And that doesn't make it bad. That makes it bad. To them. There is no such thing as bad. If that girl or that guy loved those features, then it would be good to them. So when I say bad or good, it's relative to the way they perceive themselves as to either what they would like and. Or what they used to be. So then people who like to. People who like to sort of be naysayers like to be like, well, what, What. What's wrong with it? Who says that a hump is bad? And they like to sort of play that game. Then I ask you, why did you put on lipstick this morning? Are you wearing mascara? Have you done your nails? Do you cut your short, Trim your split ends? Do you wear perfume? Do you have jewelry? Well, why do you do any of those things? What's wrong with you without perfume? Why are you shaving under your arms. So if we want to play that game, everyone will fail, because it's not about the actual absolute meaning. This is okay. And that's not. Because all that is is a line in the sand. Who are you to tell me that I'm allowed to put on mascara, but when I get a tattoo, I've gone too far? Who are you to tell me that I'm allowed to put Botox, but if I get a nose job, it's too far? It. No one can say that it's about relativism, and relativism is a dangerous area. So because no one can make that definition, it's a slippery slope, because the person who has had 47 surgeries can now reverse the argument, be like, so What? Who said 47 is bad? Why. Why is it only 2? But we're talking about mentally stable, healthy individuals who look at themselves and feel, you know what? I don't really love my saggy breasts. And to them, it's bad. And then there's people. To them, it's great. And what we have to do as a society is make sure that we don't get too far off the spectrum. And we were doing okay because, you know, at the end of the day, we had realistic images of what could be. But I think the dangerous area or the dangerous waters we're in now is that things are so accessible. You can go to Turkey. You can go to downtown, you can go to Miami. Things have become relatively affordable, even though everybody Bitches is expensive. I mean, you could literally go and get a boob job for nothing. And images are endless. So this is a cocktail or a recipe for a very bad outcome. Does that answer your question as to what defines the person as a bad nose or what my nieces felt was a bad nose?
- [39:26]
A
Yeah, it does. And I think it's. It's like a very. Like you said, it's. It's incredibly complicated. And I think. I think the line some people would draw is that there's a difference between mascara and permanently altering how you look like. You can take the mascara off, you can't take the nose job off.
- [39:44]
B
What do you tell people? What do you tell people with tattoos?
- [39:47]
A
No, I know. I. I would assume the same thing where it's like.
- [39:51]
B
I mean, tattoo, tattoo. 85% young adults. Not it. Not really. No. That's a lie. Those are what people tell themselves. But tattoos are essentially permanent. Even if you remove it, you have the scar of it. And the reality is that, again, I agree with you. It's all a sense of relativism. And I think it's great to play devil's advocate because we need to make sure that we find center ground. Center ground is that we're not far left. We're not far right, whether that's in politics, whether that's in religion, and whether that's in plastic surgical philosophy. So I do agree that each person will find that center area and draw that line. And yes, for someone, mascara is reversible, yet a tattoo is not. For some people, that too is not really reversible because I can cover it. So there's all these versions of the way we sell it to ourselves. I think the key is, and it has been for me, because ultimately, I'm the gatekeeper, right? I'm the one that is the chur. I'm the one that will facilitate this alteration in you. So I take that responsibility quite heavily. And there are many patients over the course of 20 years that I have redirected, re advised, re centered and refused.
- [41:03]
A
Let's talk about those patients. Because I think regardless of, you know, if you're listening to this, regardless of whether you think plastic surgery is a good idea, you've had it done yourself, or you're one of those people who's like, I would never do that. I want to go through the psychological process of loving my body as it is. I think we can all kind of identify that there is a level where someone seeking out plastic surgery might be a little bit problematic. Can you tell me when you know, or instances where you've been like, this person is probably not a good candidate for plastic surgery?
- [41:36]
B
Great question. So first and foremost, this, my, my overall philosophy is not that plastic surgery is good for everyone. As a matter of fact, absolutely it's not good for everyone. My simple philosophy is that if you are the right candidate and we've been sort of touching on what that is, and you do a good surgery and you find a good surgeon who collaborates with you. My experience for 20 plus years is that the overwhelming majority of those patients do well. That doesn't mean everyone should be doing it. Conversely, there are absolutely people that shouldn't be doing it that are seeking it. And who are those people? And I tend to be a bit more transparent. If you follow me on social media, you listen to my podcasts, everything and anything that comes out of my mouth is cautionary. I live and die. I'm sort of the Howard Stern meets Geraldo and the, you know, report of investigator of plastic surgeons. I'm the guy that everyone keeps sending DMs to like, hey, should I do this procedure? This sounds fishy. No. So these are the things that would be a concern to me. Number one is when a patient comes into you and says how much they dislike something, they describe it to you in great detail, how much, how terrible it is. And when you look at them, you simply just don't see it. Like, I genuinely don't know what you're talking about. A perfect example is a girl that came in just today who wanted a nose job, a revision nose job. And at the end I said, listen, I have to tell you, I think your nose looks great. It has a little bump on it and a little this. But those things are like minor. By and large, you look good. I wouldn't touch it. So red flag number one is what they see, you don't see, right? If my son comes to me who's four years old, says, papa, Papa, do you see the monster? And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, bubba. You know, I don't see what you see. Second thing that's a red flag is when they make it seem as though this issue is really the end all, be all, it's going to change their lives. They apply too much emphasis on something. You can tell that psychologically they've attached too much value to this item, right? And while I think changing the way you look creates a sense of confidence which then bleeds into your personal relationships, I cannot tell you the countless number of people who have had surgeries and as a result have massively kindled their interpersonal relationships with their loved ones, their boyfriends, their girlfriends, their husbands or wives. But when you're making it sound like this is going to change your life, like you just got, you know, I don't know, brain transplant, that's a concern when patients don't track the risks. When you talk to them, I explain, you know, I'm very under promise, over deliver, kind. I'm very like, and then this can happen and then this can happen, and then you could be paralyzed and then you could die. Like, I'm very much doomsday because I like to push the dooms. Because if you go through the doomsday conversation, you're still on board. It means that, you know, you, you understand the real risks. But when they actually act like nothing, like they don't register it, it's a concern to me that they're not going to follow through. When they have any type of psychological condition, whether they have borderline disorder, they're Very jittery, dismissive. They're very labile in their emotions. They're crying and then they're excited, they're angry, and then they're depressed. Any type of mood swings, I won't do. And when they're asking for things that are extreme that I just like. Like if you're 5 foot 2 and you weigh 125 pounds and you're an A cup and you bring me a photo of some huge star and you're like, I want these massive boobs. It's like. And there's no way that's going to happen. So remember, I don't want to be entangled in a marriage with someone with a bad outcome. So as much as it is my responsibility to prevent them from doing it, I don't want to get involved in this with you because you're ultimately going to be a patient who's going to be dissatisfied or unhappy or, or, or, or not have a good outcome. So I spend a lot of time trying to make sure that I marry the right people, because once I operate on you, you're my forever responsibility. Right. It's not like I sold you a bag, a handbag at the mall. Yeah. And you're happy, whatever. And you return it. You're like, this bag sucks. You're like, okay, here, buddy, here's your money back. Just be well. This is kind of like we're forever tied. So I am very cautionary about making sure that the patients are, have realistic and doable expectations and they're emotionally stable and seem to be present in, in, in that moment.
- [46:26]
A
I want to hone in on the second point you said here because I think this is interesting and I feel like the listeners will want me to talk about this a bit. The patient who is like, this is going to be the thing that changes my life. Why for them would you not operate on, on that kind of person? Do you think it's because they like that there's a deeper psychological insecurity going on or a deeper relationship with their body that, like, surgery can't fix. What, what about that kind of patient would maybe scare you as a, as a surgeon?
- [47:01]
B
So listen, every single person has insecurities, period. So this notion that, you know, the person who has insecurities is unstable and you should love your body is nonsense. Again, I'm not going to allow these terminologies to float around or at least in my presence, because it just then makes people who actually had surgery and have an amazing outcome feel bad about themselves. Every single person, myself Included my wife, the supermodel, the girl walking down the Runway at Victoria's Secrets has insecurities. That's part of being human. It's about being in the center. It's about that insecurity being within reason where it doesn't consume you. It's about that insecurity making sense. In reality, this dimple in my butt makes me a little insecure. It doesn't mean that I can never be naked in front of anyone again. Do you see how there's a difference between the two of those? So everyone that comes to me is fixing an insecurity. Every single human being that I've operated on doesn't like the thing that they're operating on. Whether it's the mole, whether it's the breast, whether it's the nose, it's the eyelid. That's an insecurity. Where it becomes a concern is where that insecurity is so grand. And it is. So you describe it as like. As it's altered your entire life. You having an ugly nose or not a. Or a big nose or nose that doesn't fit your face is not altering your very existence. It's not preventing you from getting a job. It's not preventing you from finding a good boyfriend. It's not preventing you from having a loving relationship. It might make you feel happier and you'll be a little more confident and you'll take a few more pictures and you'll be a little bit more aggressive in life. But so. So it's about appropriateness of that emotion. So it's kind of like the difference between being scared of dogs and being a little careful around dogs and then being so scared of dogs that you see a dog across the street and you cross the street to the other side.
- [48:52]
A
Yeah.
- [48:53]
B
So it's the difference between being reasonable and it making sense and being irrational. There are irrational fears and there's irrational emotions. And when the emotion is not congruent with the condition, it. It's a red flag. Right? It's a red flag. And it's kind of like love bombing someone. It's like, how could you love me? You've only met me for two hours. So when the love doesn't balance out with the reality of our relationship and it's the same thing when the condition. Now, God forbid. God forbid you've been burned and your face has been mutilated, and you're telling me it's destroyed your life. Well, that's a goddamn appropriate discussion.
- [49:39]
A
But the. Because, yeah, no, I see what you Mean, yeah, because.
- [49:43]
B
Because the condition warrants the emotion. But when you come to my office and you're just flabbergasted and just for clamped, and you're just beside yourself, and I ask, okay, well, what's going on? You're like this mole. It's just.
- [49:54]
A
Just.
- [49:54]
B
Which mole? This one right here. Oh, okay. What about it? Well, it just ruined my life, and I just can't. And my boy. And you're like, okay, this is just. This is a problem. And I, you know, I obviously use that as a silly example, but it can be your nose, it can be your breast, it can be anything, but you have to be reasonable about it. And that's what I mean about emotional stability. And the truth is, most consults that surgeons do is about 15 minutes. That's the average. My consults are one hour. What do you think I'm doing for the additional 45 minutes?
- [50:27]
A
I would just say probably interrogating those four things. Right. Making sure that this person is emotionally ready.
- [50:33]
B
100%. What I'm doing is digging. I'm digging. I'm having conversation with you. I'm asking about your profession. What do you do? I can examine you in five minutes and tell you what surgery you need. I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't even need to have a conversation with you. Just send me your pictures. But the consult is actually an interview. It's for you to interview me. And I don't. I like this guy. He seems cool. I don't like this guy. He seems arrogant. It's that and then for me to interview you. You don't sound like you're going to be a good patient for me to take care of. I'm not so sure I can make you happy. Right. I'm not sure if I can make you happy. And the problem with what I do that's totally different than every other specialty is what I produce is subjective.
- [51:20]
A
Yeah.
- [51:20]
B
When you go get your gallbladder removed, how many patients are unhappy about their gallbladder being removed? It's out, the end.
- [51:29]
A
Unless there's like a side effect. Yeah. Genuinely.
- [51:31]
B
Right. Of course, if you have a complication. But I'm saying is there's no variation of out. It's out or it's not. Right?
- [51:38]
A
No, exactly.
- [51:39]
B
But when you do your nose, I have 4 million permutations. And while you and I may have a lot of conversation, who on earth can predict what your nose is going to look like? You go to sleep, you wake up, and you are a different person. Do you understand how scary that experience is for both of us? What if you hate it and I think it looks amazing? It's subjective. You say, what is this ugly thing? And I say, what do you mean? This is a work of art. It's disgusting. I hate it. So you better bet I'm going to spend hours, 45 extra minutes digging to make sure that you and I are going to be a good match. And in all the years I've been in practice, I've done a pretty good job. Of course, a few people. Crack. Slipped through the cracks.
- [52:22]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [52:23]
B
But. But by and large, I think it's worked well for me.
- [52:27]
A
Follow up question here. This is so fascinating. I feel like I'm learning. I'm learning a lot. When you have one of those patients who fits all four criteria. Well, let's say three of the. I guess I think you gave four or five. Let's say three of the four or five, what do you. What do you say to them? Do you say, here's a therapist. I think you should go see. Do you say, here's a friend of mine. Do you say, give it six months? Like, what's your protocol for those patients who you're like, this isn't. This isn't going to be a good idea for you.
- [53:05]
B
A great question, and actually, that is probably the most challenging consult is to go into a room. Someone's come to see you, they paid you a fee. You internally realize this is not going to work, and you have to. You have to walk them off the ledge and tiptoe out of the room. So it depends if they are logical. I will spend time and I will spend the energy because I have them and I have captivated their attention. And frankly, they only will respect the voice or the reason of a plastic surgeon, not their mom. My mom said the same thing. Or my friends. Those people don't count. I'm a professional who, who stands to make money from this. Remember, my incentive is to make a living. So if I'm telling you that this is a bad idea, I am foregoing thousands of dollars of benefit. I don't get an Academy Award. I don't get any trophies. I just lose money.
- [53:57]
A
Yeah.
- [53:58]
B
So if they're rational in that they're logical, I can sense that I could educate them. Then I will take the time to be like, listen, let me show you a photo. Let me draw this. Let me do this. Let me show you that this is why, that this is that. And occasionally I can walk them back to where they can See that this is a bad idea. If I find that there's just no getting around it, I'll never disrespect the patient or ever make them feel bad about what they're saying. I'll never say, you know what, you're crazy. I don't even know what you're talking about. That's just never going to go over well. So often if I, if I don't feel that I can really connect with them and educate them as to why, I'll often tell them that, you know, you have a very complicated situation. And to be honest with you, I don't think I'm skilled enough. Like, I don't think I, I'm good enough to fix this problem. In other words, I'm the issue here in terms of skill than you, because at the end of the day, they're going to go and get it done. I cannot tell you. Actually, I can tell you one third of my practice is revisional. One third of my practice is someone that went somewhere, got it done, and it's a bad outcome. So I know, unfortunately, and have happened to me thousand times where I've seen patients, I've walked them off the ledge. I told them it's a bad idea, yet they go out one door and into another door, and the next guy says, no, no, no, that guy doesn't know what you're talking about. They do the surgery and then they come back here and ask me how to fix it. I'm like, Because I have their notes, right? I'm like, I saw you four years ago. Didn't I tell you not to do your nose? Didn't I tell you to leave your breasts alone? And so I know a lot of people are, they want to hear what they want to hear. And I can only do so much to guide them. So I would say 50% of the patients that are in that category, I can educate them and I can gradually and slowly reel them back. And then the other half, they're going to go elsewhere. No matter what I tell them, they're just, they're just have a beeline to get this done. And you turn, you look at social media every day. Look at how many people have gotten so far. Bizarre in terms of they look the way they look. You don't. Chances are they met someone along the way that said, no, and they just said, bucket, I'm going to go somewhere else. I don't care. My job is to not harm them. That's my first duty. My first duty is you've come to me and I'm not going to participate. I'm not gonna drive you to a bank robbery. I'm not. I'm not your Uber driver. I'm not gonna take you to your weird ass destination.
- [56:26]
A
That's a good analogy. That's a very good analogy. I like that. We're gonna take one more short break and then I want to get to surgery, addiction and maybe some advice you have for people in their 20s about surgery, about other things. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist has asked you do you have any questions and your mind suddenly just goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you probably see the most answering the questions you wish you'd asked sooner, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you get before your big overseas trip. Even those questions you are sometimes a little bit too embarrassed to say out loud. 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It's so crisp and refreshing and I like bringing them with me when I'm to trying traveling. I know my gut health isn't going to be at its best, but these chlorophyll stick packs aid digestion, they provide antioxidant support, they freshen from the inside out naturally neutralizing odors and they promote cellular health all whilst using natural ingredients. Support your gut health with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20 off your first order, plus free shipping. Go to naturesunshine.com and use code PSYCH at checkout. And that's code psychatureaturesunshine.com I feel like we've been circling the drain on this one. I think it's come up, like, in a couple of times, which is surgery addiction. You said a third of your patients are there for revisions. People give you a laundry list of things that they want. We've all seen people who have been, I would genuinely say, disfigured by plastic surgery. What's been your experience with that? And. And how do you. Two questions. What's been your experience? And this being a psychology podcast, what do you think the psychology behind that is?
- [62:22]
B
Okay, so they represent 0.000001% of patients. Let me reiterate. Body dysmorphia, the term for what you're describing, represents 0.00001% of the patients out there. The overwhelming majority of patients are normal. Regular folks like you and me, have an issue or two that they don't like, that they identify a surgeon and go get done. The fact that they have a bad outcome is not because they are crazy and they have body dysmorphia. It's because they picked the shitty surgeon. And the reason they picked a shitty surgeon is because there are people. For every one good surgeon, there's 14 charlatans running around acting like they're experts. Now, to address your true question, is this body dysmorphia people, these people that look like the cat lady, that look literally unrecognizable? Well, they're fascinating. That's why they occupy so much of the discussion when it comes to plastic surgery. I've done a hundred podcasts, and every podcaster asked me about body dysmorphia because it's fascinating. Like, it's a train wreck. We're all watching, like, what the hell? Why does she look like that? And moreover, who did that to her?
- [63:36]
A
Yeah.
- [63:37]
B
So the issue is twofold. The issue is what's wrong with the person? And the second issue is who would have done that to that person? So body dysmorphia is a psychological condition, and it's a condition in which you see yourself as different than you really are, much like people who have anorexia and they are not well, and they have some degree of paranoia and they have an underlying, true psychological condition. So they need to be on medication, just like a schizophrenic needs to be on a medication, just like someone who hears voices needs to be on a medication and seek psychological help. However, because often they're estranged, because often they're isolated, often they're just by themselves. Often they're at the end of their lifespan in terms of the money they've spent on themselves. They're usually not at a job with their husband and kids. Not those people. I'm talking about body dysmorphia. People who walk around. You're like, whoa, there's no one who can intervene in those people. So that's not the issue. The issue is who the hell operated on this lady 17 times? Yeah, that's the sick part. The sick part isn't that they are.
- [64:56]
A
She had. Yeah, that she was sick.
- [64:58]
B
Somebody showed up some. She went to somebody's office, having had three facelifts, looking literally like a stretch tambourine. And someone said, sure, I'll take your 20, 30, 40, 50 grand and do another facelift. That's the sick part, because that's literally like child abuse as far as I'm concerned. It's like elderly abuse. This person is not well. So it happens. I'm lucky in that it doesn't happen in my office. Occasionally they'll get through the window. If you call my office and you say, I've had four facelifts, and I'm thinking, something's not right and I want a fifth, we just don't see you. I'm so sorry. You know, there's nothing. There's nothing we can do to help you. We're not going to engage the dialogue. There is no scenario in which zero. Where you need five facelifts before 50.
- [65:46]
A
That's one like. That's literally like one every five years.
- [65:50]
B
There was a girl. There was. There was a girl. I. What is the name of that? And I don't know. She was like, literally her six facelift and she's like 50 so far. It's more. Thank the Lord. It's a very small minority.
- [66:03]
A
I think it. It's an addiction. Right. As well. Right. You have to treat this as something deeply psychological.
- [66:08]
B
One hundred, a hundred percent. It is the same exact area in the brain that leads to cocaine addiction, alcoholism, gambling, pornography. It is a impulse.
- [66:20]
A
I've got two final questions for you. The first one is, here is your space to just address the biggest myth about plastic surgery that you want to address. And the second one is more specific to our audience, but I'll let you do that one first. What's the biggest myth that you want to address here about plastic surgery.
- [66:39]
B
So I think I have been blessed over 20 plus years to have been graced with so many amazing interpersonal experiences. Thousands of letters and thank you notes and gifts and chocolates and, and, and pictures and reviews from people whose lives I've improved. So I don't like when plastic surgery gets a bad rap because inherently it's an incredible tool. That being said, my biggest qualm and my biggest message is that tool is a very, very sharp knife. And if that knife is incorrect, Nick incorrectly handled, used on the wrong patient, done in the wrong way, can create everlasting damage. And because of the things we discussed, more damage is being done than ever before, thereby tainting and ruining the beautiful possibilities that a good plastic surgical experience can bring. So what I say is people are now treating plastic surgery, operating, going under anesthesia, like it's literally going and getting extensions. They have lost their reverence for it, they have lost their fear of it, they have lost their, you know, if you were going to do something super significant in your life, you would do a tremendous amount of analysis before plastic surgery is no longer in that category. It's like a whimsical decision. And that is my biggest concern for young adults is it's something you feel like you want. And the biggest issue is at 20, you can't afford it. So what I see more than ever is that when you're 20, $5,000 is a lot of money at 20. And as a result, when someone good is 10 grand and someone mediocre is 5 grand, you have to have it, I have to have this now. And you forego what you would normally have done in any other scenario and you say, ah, how bad could it be? Because it's getting extensions. And so a lot of the revisions I do are in people who had surgery as young adults. And at that time, aside from the fact that their, their wisdom hadn't settled in, there's a reason why 20 year old people do stupid and 60 year old people are like, God, when I was 20, what the thing. Because that's when you are in the military, that's when you get into fights, that's when you go to war, that's when you protest, that's when you are at a certain place in your life that you're conquering things. You don't make always the best judgment. And the problem is that you don't have the finances to do what's better. So my biggest advice is save your money. So if you can't afford the person that you did homework on. That's, that's ten grand. Don't kid yourself that the four grand, three grand guy is just as good. Or I'll go to, I don't know, the Bahamas or Turkey or Greece. I'm saying be wise, put your mature thinking cap on and just treat it with the reverence that it deserves. And if you do that, then I hope for you that you will be a part of what I experience in my practice, which is amazing, transformative experiences. And that's what it should be. 99% of plastic surgery should be amazing. Like, wow, this was fucking great. I'm so happy I did this. And there's just a lot of bad decisions being made.
- [70:23]
A
Yeah, that's great advice. Now that we have you in the advice giving mood, this is the question that we ask everybody which is a piece of advice you would have for yourself in your 20s or people in their 20s. Now that has nothing to do with what we talked about today.
- [70:43]
B
So I think for me personally one of the things that I probably overdid that I wish I didn't is I spent too much of my young adult worrying about getting where I needed to go in life. So there are two major paths in life. Those that really plan and those that don't plan enough. And generally the conversation is hey, you gotta have a plan kid. Like you can't just let the universe take you where it goes. That's you're never going to get there. And that's actually quite true. But because of my personality, I think I over planned and over worried and overstressed about my destination. And so I got to where I got in life, which I'm so grateful. I got married and I had kids a little bit late and I have a wonderful practice. Everything about my life is where I always imagined it to be. But I think I worry too much about getting here and it took a little bit of the fun out of it. I was all then too worried about making it to my end destination and not enough time. Not smelling the roses or watching the view, but relaxing a bit. And so for the type A people who are out there, you can, you can probably release the reins a bit and you'll, as long as you're headed in the right direction, you'll probably get to your end destination without having to knuckle grip it all the way there.
- [72:06]
A
I love that advice and you know what, it's very pertinent because that is the question. I get the theme of questions I get all the time which is like, how do I know that I'm on the right path? Like, how do I, how do I know where I'm going? So I like what you said. Like the destination will be there. You can take a bit of time.
- [72:25]
B
Yeah, I mean, you gotta, have you got. First of all, if you don't, if you're not on a path, you will make it anywhere. So you don't know that you're on the right path, but you need to be on a path that's. First of all, you have to, you have to be in the, you have to be in the game. And that path has to be one that's worthy of traveling even if it ends up not being the one. So A, you can't not be on a path and B, pick a path that's worthy of traveling and don't worry about it. If it's the path.
- [72:51]
A
Path.
- [72:51]
B
If you are on a path and it's a path worthy traveling, the path will present itself.
- [72:56]
A
I want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
- [73:00]
B
Yes, can I, can I have a moment to plug my podcast?
- [73:03]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [73:05]
B
I, I think that if people enjoyed this dialogue, which I hope they did, meaning if you have any interest in cosmetic surgery, which most people find kind of curious or fascinating or whatever, I have an amazing podcast called Plastic Surgery Unsettled, which as from this podcast you can get a gauge of how I communicate information. And it really covers everything in plastic surgery from minor things to major things to trends to disasters, catastrophes to patients, their journeys to experts to. Etc. It's called Plastic Surgery Uncensored. You find it all over the place.
- [73:40]
A
Spotify, Apple, it will be in the description as well.
- [73:43]
B
Yeah. And I, and I think that for anybody who wants more of this kind of stuff, you can kind of dig in and do a little deep dive there. And then if they want to follow me or anything, they can always come on to our Instagram and, and, and peruse at Dr. Roddy Raban, which is D R R A D Y R A H B A N. So we'd love to have some of your 20s. I, my, my dream is to get a hold of all the 20s, 20 year olds before they do shitty mistakes. Yeah, that's my goal is to, is to get ahead of it it, not to fix it afterwards. So good on you for having a podcast that is specifically targeting young adults because often the choices we make in young adulthood are the ones that forever change our lives and if we can alter them early enough, maybe the trajectory will be better.
- [74:33]
A
I appreciate it. Well, it was such a pleasure to have you on board. If you enjoyed this episode, give us a five star review, share it with a friend and follow us on Instagram at thatpsychology Podcast if you want to, you know, give any feedback. If you have any further questions or thoughts about this episode or any other episodes, if you want us to expand on anything we talked about, or if you just want to see behind the scenes, we'd love to have you over there. But until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks you any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, each episode features real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health expert you probably see the most breaking down the questions you wish you'd asked from which medications might not mix well to what vaccines do I need for my next big trip? They'll bust myths, decode trends, and share practical advice you can actually use. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sexual that's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed I'll be honest with you all life as someone who is self employed is unpredictable and having flexibility with my finances is key. The Klarna Card is an upgraded debit card that lets you choose how to pay now or later, keeping you in control. The Klarna Card works anywhere Visa is accepted and there is no credit impact. To apply, sign up for the Klarna card by downloading the Klarna app or learn more@klarna.com US Klarna card Klarna Card Pay Later Plans issued by webpage Deposits in your balance account are held at WebBank, member FDIC anywhere visa is accepted. Certain merchant products, goods and services restrict and supply. Some merchants do not accept virtual cards, physical card only included with the paid Klarna membership plan. Season two of Unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet.
- [77:13]
B
Are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Becker, Snafeeza Collier.
- [77:19]
A
Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take.
- [77:21]
B
The court and redefine the game.
- [77:23]
A
This isn't your regular season.
- [77:24]
B
This is unrivaled, where the pace is.
- [77:27]
A
Faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.
- [77:36]
B
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- [78:49]
A
Guaranteed Human.