← The Psychology of your 20s
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- [00:00]
Gemma Spake
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human before all of the algorithm fed Bilar and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession Podlings. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. I recently found a dress I've been looking for since I was probably 19 that I saw on a show many moons ago and the feeling was exhilarating. There's always more to discover on ebay. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity Guarantee EBAY Things People Love Tax
- [00:39]
TurboTax Announcer
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- [01:18]
Oestra/Inner Balance Announcer
Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?
- [01:21]
Dr. Laurie Santos
Right.
- [01:21]
Gemma Spake
And the best part? They accept Discover.
- [01:24]
Oestra/Inner Balance Announcer
Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so. Jennifer.
- [01:28]
Gemma Spake
Oh yeah, huh? Discover is accepted where I like to shop. Come on baby, get with the times.
- [01:34]
Oestra/Inner Balance Announcer
Right, so we shouldn't get the parachute pants.
- [01:37]
Gemma Spake
These are making a comeback, I think.
- [01:41]
Electric For All Announcer
Discover is accepted at 99% of places
- [01:43]
Gemma Spake
that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
- [01:48]
I'm Gemma Speck, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast answers the questions you'd wished you'd asked, like which meds may not work well together, what vaccines you might need before a holiday, and even some of the questions you're too embarrassed to say out loud. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:25]
Dr. Laurie Santos
This is Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab. As a happiness expert, I know that mindfulness isn't just about meditation it's also being present in our choices. And that's why I choose Dietz and Watson. They're family owned and operated and they never cut corners. Ever. They're totally transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't and that's why their meats and cheeses taste so great. I use their chicken sausage with no added hormones in my family recipes. With Dietz and Watson, I can be mindful about my meals and my choices. Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the dietz difference. That's dietzandwatson.com the right way.
- [03:11]
Gemma Spake
Hello everybody. I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast
- [03:17]
where we talk through the biggest changes,
- [03:20]
moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. As we of course break down the Psychology of our twenties, here is a story I hear a lot from listeners of the show. It is the story of someone being fresh out of college, fresh out of uni, getting their first job, starting a new job, being super optimistic and excited. And they're excited for the security and for the paycheck and like for the beginning of something new. And then a few months in, they encounter someone who just like, wants to make their life miserable, whether that is a colleague, whether that is a boss, or they realize, like, hey, like, wait a second. This workplace literally feels like I'm back in high school. Why does this person have an issue with me? Why are these people sleeping together? Why did I not get that promotion when I obviously work harder? Why does this person just hate me? I hear a story about this probably every week. A story about office politics, about drama and backstabbing and affairs and stuff that honestly, nobody prepares us for in the workplace. We spend so much time at work and office politics and situations like this do not get enough credit for how stressful they can be because we're often part of the stress is we have zero idea what to do. Especially in our 20s, we feel so helpless. Our work begins to suffer. We feel pessimistic about work in general, but how you go about managing these situations is going to shape your career deeply and possibly for the better. And if you have the right tools, your approach to office politics could actually make you more successful today. I want to give you a bit of that guide into the psychology that drives these hidden social mechanisms in the workplace and kind of the reminder that we need, that all of this is just complex human behavior boiled down into petty drama. Behind the scenes of all of this is secret motivations, emotions, human psychology that is influencing why people are the way we are or the way they are. And when we understand that psychology, we understand that research and that science, we have a better emotional playbook for dealing with this and for rising above some of like, the terrible, frustrating things that workplace politics is going to throw at us. So this is what we're discussing today. It's going to be a big episode, but a very worthwhile, essential one if you are just beginning your career or in your 20s. Without further ado, let's get into it. A lot of the time, I think our early 20s and our 20s in general is like the first time we were really exposed to like very interesting and secretive workplace dynamics. I don't remember ever thinking about this before I started working. Yes, university, maybe high school, had these subtle hierarchies, same as some of our early jobs, but only as you get older do you realise how strange and manipulative people can be and the unwritten rules that are at play in the workplace. That is the office politics we're talking about. There is a literal whole, and I mean major, major discipline of psychology devoted to this very thing, by the way. It's called organizational psychology. It essentially exclusively focuses on why people behave the way they do at work. Because we know work is such a huge part of our human lives and human identity. It makes sense that it is as complicated as relationships, as complicated as, as marriages, as family. So back to the office. If you want to understand the complexities of office politics, you first have to understand that every office has, or every workplace has two structures, the formal hierarchy and the informal network. So on paper, the hierarchy is very clear. You know, you have managers, directors, executives, interns, etc. Etc. This is like bureaucratic authority, right? The people at the top have legitimate rule based power over people at the bottom. You know, who has the title, who does the budgets, who does the performance reviews, who is in charge. Alongside this though, is another structure that is more influential. This is the informal network. So these are the relationships. These are the relationships that determine who gets consulted, who actually shapes the decisions, who is actually trusted with sensitive information, and, and then also who makes more money, who gets the promotions, even if that power structure doesn't line up with the formal power structure. This is sometimes what they call the shadow organization. It's like these unspoken channels of influence that you have to be aware of if you want to play the game of work. There is this classic theory from the 50s about the five main sources of workplace power. And this is the other thing you have to be aware of if you want to navigate the complexities of office life. If you want to have influence at work, you can have one of these five forms of power, legitimate power. So the kind of power that is granted by authority, reward power, power in your ability to provide benefits, praise, recognition, coercive power, the power to punish, expert power, the power of knowledge and competence. And finally, irreverent power, the ability to influence things through charisma and through likability. In your 20s, like, you likely don't have much legitimate power yet. And I mean, if you do, that's amazing. Like, that's really cool if you, if you are the CEO of something. But most people in their 20s don't decide how much people get paid. You can't really fire or hire en masse. What you do have, though, is referent and expert power. You can become indispensable by developing, you know, the knowledge and skills that other people don't have time for and they need to rely on you to do. You can also build alliances, you can collaborate with people, you can be nice to people. If you've ever heard the term personality hire, this is what we're talking about. People always dismiss the personality hire, but all that means is that you have great soft skills, you are enjoyable to be around, you are, you're a morale booster, you are a fresh perspective. That is a huge asset. In your 20s when a lot of people are very jaded, you have something others don't. You have to use whatever you can, including that to your advantage. You being a nice person to be around helps your boss, it strokes their ego, it makes them feel good, which, yeah, may not be able to outperform somebody who is making three times as much as you may not be able to outperform a very complex skill. But that small addition on top of the other things you're doing and the other skills you do have gives you great power. You give something, you are giving your personality, they are getting something in return from that. One of the most useful psychological frameworks for office politics is basically exactly this. It's called social exchange theory. It was first proposed by George Homans, like in the 50s. I think it was further developed in the 60s. You will hear social exchange theory talked about in everything from relationships to work to our pets, but it essentially suggests that all human relationships, all relationships in general, operate on a principle of exchange. We Give and we receive resources, whether that is material resources like money, emotional resources like love and respect. Relationships thrive when the exchange is balanced and they suffer when they feel one sided. In an office, this shows up constantly. This exchange theory is literally the basis of all office politics. You help a co worker meet a deadline, they later advocate for you during like promotion time. You share credit, others share credit with you. You make your boss feel hip and young and cool and fun. They're going to be a nice boss back to you. You're going to get stuff in return. The social exchange theory is balanced. The exchange theory is balanced. Basically. On the flip side, it also explains why the energy of an office can become really toxic. If you feel like, and I think this is an experience a lot of us have when we're younger. If you feel like you are endlessly giving everything, your loyalty, your ideas, your evenings, and you are not receiving any recognition, any support, any money, that is a surefire way for resentment to build. Just like you would get super frustrated at a friend or a romantic partner for never reciprocating plans, never reciprocating the effort you put into their birthday. Like this is all happening at work equally. Except now it's with your co workers and you arguably probably see them a lot more. And you also can't just end the relationship and walk away the way that you probably could do with a bad friend. Like they are there as much as you are. So this is why we cannot brush over this stuff psychologically. The workplace isn't just a place we show up and we do a bit of work and we get a paycheck and we go home and it's all great. It is a stage where we perform parts of ourselves and parts of our identity. And it is a stage where we are performing a social dance and we are seeking belonging like we do in any social environment. When you are rejected, when you are excluded, when you do not feel part of the social fabric of the office, or you do not feel like people are friendly to you or kind to you, this will genuinely erode your mental health. Belonging is one of our most essential emotional and psychological needs. Whether it is at home, in a relationship, out in the world, if you do not feel like you belong, you kind of collapse inwards. Studies in organizational psychology have shown us time and time again, employees that perceive themselves to be outsiders, people who feel like they are being pushed out of the inner circle of work, they are going to experience much higher levels of anxiety, lower job performance, greater repeated intentions to quit. They also have poor Self worth, because like it or not, so much of our identity is tied up in our professional lives and is tied up in our professional career. You cannot avoid it. Whatever relationship you have with your work, it's just the mere fact that you're spending so much time there that's going to mean you and your job and your career will quickly become quite enmeshed and you and your co workers and the relationship you have with them will quickly impact your mental health if it goes wrong. And the other thing about exclusion, because I think this is a big part of office politics, that happens a lot to us in our 20s, but at any age. Like, the big thing about exclusion is that it actually consumes a lot of mental resources to be left out. Like, it consumes a lot of mental resources to constantly be hypervigilant towards who's in the kitchen, who isn't talking to me, who doesn't like me. It takes a lot of time away from our actual job, our actual tasks. That means that we perform poorer, which means we get more criticism, which means we feel more excluded, which means that it just becomes this cycle of performance linked to exclusion that then creates poorer performance and worse exclusion. This is why office politics matters so much. It's not just about promotions and recognition. There is this hidden world of inclusion and status and validation and the way those things are distributed that is going to directly impact your psychology as an employee and as a person outside of work. Okay, we're going to take a short break here because that's a lot of stuff all at once. But when I return, let's talk about competition, let's talk about gossip, and let's talk about how you can use workplace competitiveness to your advantage. So stay with us.
- [16:09]
Before all of the algorithm fed Bilar and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession, Podlings. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay, it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I recently found a dress I had been looking for since I was 19. I saw it on a TV show and I swear it called out to me. And it has been something I have come back to time and time again. I have searched everywhere and every single secondhand store until finally I found it in my size on ebay. It's about the thrill of finding pieces just like that. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you as well. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love we know by now that our gut health impacts our entire system. It actually houses up to 80% of your immune system and chlorophyll stick packs from Nature's Sunshine are a convenient on the go way to support that very gut health and help your body feel good and balanced. It's been a stressful few months in my life and my body has definitely been feeling it. It's been feeling very sluggish. So just having one of these chlorophyll sticks, especially the crisp apple flavor, every single been such an additive for me. It freshens from the inside. It aids digestion and gut balance, it provides antioxidant support, it promotes cellular health and it's backed by decades of expertise, research and knowledge which you know on the show we absolutely love. Support gut balance with Chlorophyll stick packs from Nature's Sunshine. They are offering 20 off your first order plus free shipping. Go to naturesunshine.com and use the code Psycho at checkout. That's code psych. Naturesunshine.com nothing quite hits like a home cooked meal and hellofresh makes it easier to do more of that this year with recipes that feel good and taste delicious. Night after night cooking for myself has become a practice. I am really trying to do more and when you have over 100 recipes to choose from each week, meals which are easy to whip up, which taste delicious, that habit becomes easier. Hellofresh gives you so much variety with high protein recipes, mediterranean recipes, winter warmers all made with wholesome ingredients and seasonal produce like juicy pears, apples, delicious seafood. When dinner tastes this good, nothing hits quite like home cooking. Genuinely guys, I use hellofresh if you're busy.
- [19:04]
If you want to cook more at home you should too.
- [19:07]
Go to hellofresh.com gemma10fm to get 10 free meals plus a freeze filling knife that is at $144.99 value on your third box offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as a discount on your first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. I'm Gemma Spag, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks you do you have any questions and suddenly your mind goes blank? That is exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jay Goodman, a board certified psychiatrist and health educator, this show takes you behind the counter to answer the questions you'd wish you'd asked, like what medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you consider before a big trip. And even those questions you're a little bit too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you real trustworthy advice from the experts you see the most. Your neighborhood CVS pharmacist. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:30]
TurboTax Announcer
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- [21:32]
Gemma Spake
Competition in the workplace I think is like the second worst thing about office politics after exclusion and after obviously like workplace bullying and harassment. But competition is like, is fierce. It can ruin us emotionally to feel like we are constantly on this hamster wheel of trying to be better than the next person or the person behind us, in front of us, beside us. I remember when I I've had, I don't know what it is but every actually I've never had a workplace that was not competitive. Even when I worked at the steak restaurant, when I worked steak restaurant in uni, I had this terrible boss who I talk about a lot because I I hated this man and he was awful to us and he had this like hierarchy right of the employees that he liked and the employees that he didn't. And there were two employees that he always really liked and then there were like 15 of us who were vying for like three other positions in that like top five slot. And it, whether you are on the in or the out with him, would like determine if you got to leave early, how many tips you got, like what sections you worked in. And that environment created so much competition and like genuine like sabotage at like the steak restaurant. Like I used to find it so funny that all these politicians and academics and like very wealthy people would be eating their, I don't know, medium rare steaks. And behind the scenes there was like all these like 18 to 27 year olds who had like major workplace grief with each other. All because of this environment that this man created, all because of this competition. And then that happened again in like my corporate job and in the corporate environment that I worked in, there is this idea like there was always not enough to go around. There was so much competition about who was staying the latest, who was putting in the craziest hours. It was like this badge of honor to have poor work life boundaries, especially in your 20s. When again we talk about the power that we have in our 20s, a lot of the power that we have is that we can do the brunt work. That's how we get ahead is by doing the things nobody else wants to do. Back to this competition thing. Why, why, why do workplaces get so competitive? It's because they are often structured around scarce resources. This is really what it comes down to. It is a resource problem. Bonuses, promotions, who likes who. There's not enough to go around. There's not enough love, admiration, money, corner offices so that everybody can get one. This can very easily turn colleagues into rivals. It is like a tale as old as time. We know in psychology that the scarcity effect makes and turns us into irrational creatures. When something seems more rare or less available, this changes how we react to that thing. And it means that we often do things we wouldn't because something seems exclusive or rare, and therefore we want it more. Competition is always going to exist in the workplace, especially if you're in a very corporate competitive job market. But psychology tells us that how we interpret competition is going to change its emotional and vocational impact on us. Competition can be informational or emotional. We want it to be informational. That is what we're aspiring to. Because when it is framed in this way, when it is framed as something that is helping us to understand where we stand, helping us notice our weaknesses, helping us push ourselves further, it can actually motivate growth when it is framed as emotional or threatening. A scarce game like the one we're in means that somebody else's success is always going to be now failure. And that's going to trigger envy. It's going to trigger defensiveness. More crucially though, it's going to trigger more rash behavior that's actually going to make you look worse and make you or turn you into somebody who is antisocial, who could even do bad things. Social psychologists really like to get into the nitty gritty of the distinction here. And they like to distinguish between benign envy, which motivates self improvement, and malicious envy which actually just motivates tearing others down and in the process we should say destroying us more. Destroying us because it makes us look bad. Destroying us because it takes all of our concentration and energy we should be putting towards our goals and our work and it turns it towards somebody else. I truly believe competition and envy are some of the most powerful states of mind that you can find yourself in because they actually, they deeply reveal what we want in life. It's probably one of the easiest ways to know what you desire. Who are you jealous of? Who do you really envy? Because if there wasn't something about them you secretly actually admired and wanted or secretly found impressive, you wouldn't be jealous of it because it wouldn't be something that you secretly wanted and aspired towards. This knowledge can actually bolster your performance. There was a 2008 study, I don't know what university it was done at, maybe Brown, and it found that exposure to high achieving peers boosted performance when, when the other participants saw their success as inspiring rather than threatening. So when they saw somebody doing really well and they were like, wow, that's incredible, I really want to be like them. It didn't eliminate competition. It made competition a game. It made it something fun. It made it a motivational resource that they could use to their advantage. It became like a superpower. Even if, like, even if the other people around you don't feel the same, like, even if you are the only one who wants to treat competition this way in your workplace amongst your peers. It is not like a, I guess not a zero sum game. Like not everybody has to play for the game to still go your way. You will still come out exponentially better if you can do the mindset and the psychological and the emotional work to turn competition from emotional into informational. Listen, I kind of get it. Like you can have that mindset and there's always going to be somebody who doesn't and there's always going to be somebody who is going to take it too far. I think few dynamics feel worse than realizing a colleague is actively trying to make you look bad. Whether it is withholding information, subtle digs, questioning your competence in front of other people, gossiping about you. Psychologists have a name for this. It's called social undermining. It is deliberate behaviors that chip away at somebody's like reputation and even at their own ability to get work done or to get things done. The hypervigilance this creates is its own level of exhaustion. You are basically going to to work on the defense eight hours a day, five days a week, more. For some, that is going to change your stress response, change your emotional response, change how you react in work and outside of work. I don't want to discount that in the slightest. If you are going through something like this at the moment where a boss hates you, a colleague hates you, somebody is undermining you, somebody obviously doesn't want you to succeed and is setting you up for failure, it is very easy to maybe dismiss that and think, oh, it's just work, doesn't really matter, like I'll get through it. But it is probably deeply impacting you. So I want you to know I have a lot of empathy for that, a lot of sympathy for the situation you're in. There are some things you can do though that are going to make the situation not better, but more preferable for you. This is what I think you can do if you are in that hyper competitive, maybe saboteur situation. Firstly, information tracking, note taking, archiving is your best friend right now. Dates, what was said, what was done, any witnesses. This might feel pretty bureaucratic and maybe petty at first, but if this person genuinely doesn't like you and it reaches the point where their behavior is really injuring your reputation or it becomes workplace bullying. This just gives you some leverage. It gives you something that you can escalate to HR and be like, hey, I am not crazy. This is what has been done when it comes to like. That's a long term strategy when it comes to responding in the moment. The hardest part is that you have to stay strategic rather than reactive half the time. A reaction is what people want, even if it's not, it will help them. You having an immediate angry, furious, loud reaction is going to do them favors. It's so unfair because all you want to do is stand up for yourself, but you have to try and stick to facts, not feelings. Keep it really simple. Responses like, I noticed X happened in the meeting. Can you explain that to me? I noticed that you said this. I don't understand why that's funny. I noticed that you didn't send Me that. Was there a reason? The use of questions against a bully or against somebody who is competitive is the most important thing you can do because it shifts the need to explain and justify back onto them. And it will very quickly show, like, the gaps in their story or the moments that don't add up to people outside of the situation. That's not to say your emotions are not important. They act as a compass. They validate your experience, they point out what's not okay. But giving someone direct access to those emotions right now is giving them a bit of a strategic advantage because they now know what hurts you most, where they can deliver blows to make sure that you hurt, where things sting, how to get what they want from you. Try and keep them private. From the person who is frustrating you. I don't know. I was going to say interrogating you, but from the person who is obviously trying to make your life a bit more miserable. Here's a final major tip that I know from experience can be so hard to avoid, but really try not to mirror their behavior. Retaliation feels so satisfying biologically, emotionally, but it entrenches the toxicity, and it really can cause damage to your reputation. By staying professional, staying composed, you gain power. You become the person others see as reliable, others see as steady and competent, the one who rises above the drama over time. That credibility is your biggest asset because it acts as armor. And those colleagues, that boss, that manager who's trying to undermine you, loses their influence against that steadiness. Let's talk about one final aspect of workplace office politics that I'm just realizing we haven't touched on at all, which is bizarre because it's so, so vital. I'm going to give you guys, like, two seconds to guess. We're going to talk about gossip. This is the question we all want to know the answer to. Should you gossip at work? Simple question. Strangely complicated answer. Gossip is complicated because it is social currency. It is the social currency of the workplace. When you have information nobody else knows, that is a commodity. That is a commodity to trade. It's a way to socially bond as well, whether we like to admit it or not. Like, people who gossip do have more power, and sometimes, let's be real, they are more fun. But frequent, exclusively negative gossip will carry real costs. And it's something that, especially if you're in your 20s, you need to avoid despite, like, the allure of, like, the immediate benefit of dopamine. Like, gossip brings dopamine, it brings oxytocin. It's bonding. A 2024 study though from researchers at the, I think University of Leeds in the uk, they actually found that it will often make you look worse. They conducted a series of studies with like 1400 participants. They basically presented them with a hypothetical workplace scenario with colleagues with gossipers with not people who don't gossip. And what they found was that whilst the participants viewed the people who gossiped as more sociable, they often actually liked them more. They also viewed them as less moral, less competent and they were less likely to trust them or provide them with promotions. In other words, gossip is like is going to give you the short term hit. It might grant you short term inclusion but it costs you credibility in the long run. It's a piece of advice my mum always used to give me. The worst person in the office is not the person that makes mistakes, it is the person who talks about them. So resist the urgent. Even when something feels juicy, I always like to assume like the person is in the next room. The person can always overhear you and I don't know what do they say about reputation? Like it takes five minutes to build a reputation that will last a lifetime. And if you want to gossip, if you don't want to be excluded from like the water fountain chat research published in 2022 highlights that actually engaging in positive workplace gossip, talking good behind somebody's back, as Amy Paula says, that can actually make you more valuable. It can bolster social standing, it increases the rate and timing of promotions, the study found. And it makes you feel better at work. It's like nicotine replacement therapy for gossip. Or like junk food replacement therapy like swap chocolate with dark chocolate. Swap cruel gossip with positive gossip. Before we wrap up on our Office Politics episode, I want to share some final advice for managing these situations that I wish I'd known sooner. I was really reflecting on this when writing this episode because our 400th episode, my like three year anniversary since quitting my job is coming up and now that I've had some distance from like corporate life, I think there are some objective insights that I can share about my situation that hopefully you guys can take advantage of. So stay with us, we're going to talk about all of that and more after this short break.
- [36:27]
Before all of the algorithm fed bilar and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession Podlings, you can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I recently found a dress I had been looking for since I was 19. I saw it on a TV show and I swear it called out to me and it has been something I have come back to time and time again. I have searched everywhere, every single secondhand store until finally I found it in my size on ebay. It's about the thrill of finding pieces just like that. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you as well. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love Doing
- [37:29]
TurboTax Announcer
taxes the old way meant handing everything off and just hoping things were moving. But now you can feel confident your taxes are being handled right with Intuit TurboTax. Now you match with a TurboTax full service expert. Just upload your documents right in the app and boom. They take it from there, start to finish. You've got a dedicated expert working your return. They check every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome so you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And now you're not guessing what's happening, you're seeing it happen. TurboTax gives you real time updates on your experts progress while you go about your day. Run errands, grab a coffee, live your life. You're always in the loop and if a question pops up, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost. Even on nights and weekends. During tax season, taxes are finally transparent, easier and handled. Visit turbotax.com only available with TurboTax full service experts real time updates only in iOS mobile app.
- [38:29]
Dr. Laurie Santos
This is Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab. As a happiness expert, I know that mindfulness isn't just about meditation. It's also about being present with your choices and for me, present at mealtime. That's why I choose Dietz and Watson. They're a family owned and operated business and they never cut corners. Ever. I use their chicken sausage with no added hormones in my family recipes. Dietz and Watson have been handcrafting meats and cheeses for over 85 years. They know that good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients. They're totally transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't. And that's why their meats and cheeses taste so great. They stick to what matters, using the fewest, highest quality ingredients to craft their meats and cheeses because that's how they've always done it. If you want a more mindful meal, check out Dietz and Watson. Dietz and Watson. It's a family thing since 1939. Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the dietz difference. That's dietzandwatson.com the right way I'm Gemma
- [39:32]
Gemma Spake
Spaeg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks you do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That is exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jay Goodman, a board certified psychiatrist and health educator, this show takes you behind the counter to answer the questions you'd wish you'd asked. Like what medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you consider before a big trip? And even those questions you're a little bit too embarrassed to to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you real trustworthy advice from the experts you see the most. Your neighborhood CVS pharmacist. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:36]
TurboTax Announcer
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- [41:38]
Gemma Spake
it has been three years since I quit my corporate job to do well. Actually not three. It's been like two and a half since I quit my corporate job to do the podcast full time. And I feel like in the kind of months and years after I quit that job, I always thought I was going to have to go back and I always thought that I was, yeah, I was going to have to ask for my job back. So I never used to talk about work or like that job really on the podcast, but today I thought I'd do it. And I thought I'd kind of share some of the things that I'd learned and that I wish I'd done differently. The biggest one being I wish and I tell everybody this, this has nothing to do with office politics, just to do with being in an office. Use your sick leave. If you have paid sick leave, I need you to be taking a random, like take those days off even if you're not sick. I know that sounds bad. I don't really care. I genuinely think that like you pay for those days. If sick days, personal leave days were not. They are part of your workplace package. So if your work did not offer them, you would be getting more money. Do you know what I mean? Like you are salary sacrificing in general to have these days off. So you have to use them. If you have recently quit a job or if you are about to quit the job that you just had, call in sick for like the whole week. And I know people are going to be like, that gives you a terrible reputation that like really lets down your co workers valid and maybe you're a better person than I am, but you will very quickly realize after you quit that job that it is not the whole world and it is not the whole universe. It's very easy to feel like the reputation you have at that workplace is going to follow you everywhere. Taking like a week of sick leave after you quit is not going to ruin your career. And in fact I think it's probably good and will increase your performance at your next job to have that buffer. Second thing I would do if I wanted to get ahead, that one's not really a get ahead tip. That's just a fun tip. That's a, that's a lifestyle tip. My second tip for like getting ahead at work though, that I did at my old job at all my corporate jobs. Reply to every single email you are cc'd in, even the ones that like have nothing to do with you. Now, obviously not like company wide email updates, but I mean if you are on a project and somebody cc's you just for visibility or. Always email back. Always email back with a question. Always email back with something or other just so that your name, especially if you are in like a hierarchical, like workplace, your name is visible. Like the effort that you put in is visible. These are easy reputation bonus points. Especially if you're a junior. You know, it makes you seem super engaged. It costs you like five minutes a day. Third tip, do not burn bridges at work. Do not at any point, you know, decide, I don't need to be friends with this person, I don't need anything to do with this person. I am going to make the rash decision to just like to just cut them out or I'm bored by this person or they're annoying me so I'm going to stop replying to them or I'm going to ignore them or whatever it is. Like, even if this person is incredibly frustrating, even if you think you will never see them again, even if they are some distant connection that has royally pissed you off, do not burn that bridge. I can promise you right now that person will come back around. You will see that person again at some point. That will be very awkward. Obviously, if they're like really awful, you're allowed to distance yourself. But never think you're above anybody. Never think that you know more than anybody. Never let your ego get in the way of being kind and respectful to people because it will always come back to bite you. I would also say another big tip for my corporate people out there, my corporate 20 somethings. If your boss is doing your job for you, you are in trouble. I think this is like the clearest litmus test for, like, if you are doing well at work, if you are doing your job and you are doing it okay, even if doing exceptionally doing okay. If you're just doing your job and your boss isn't constantly like, this is a mistake, I've had to fix this, blah, blah, blah, blah, you're doing all right. If you find that your boss is suddenly having to make corrections, having to ask you repeatedly for changes. If you are finding that like you submit something and it comes out in a completely different manner, that's when I would really be scheduling that one on one and being like, what can I do and how can I do more? Doing that shows so much incentive. Like genuinely reaching out for feedback before feedback is provided gets you ahead of this problem and gets you ahead of like, I don't know, not the consequences, but sometimes the embarrassment of not being told off, but being criticized. And when you get criticized, like unexpectedly, that can be so painful. So that is my biggest tip. And also ask for help People love it when you ask for help. They would rather that you ask for help than they have to ask you for corrections. That is something that when I was kind of a junior, I remember one of my mentors saying to me where she was like, I would much rather feel needed before the fact than feel like, then feel like you are needy afterwards or feel like I suddenly have to do your job. I'd much rather hand hold than do myself if it means that the next time you are able to do it. My final thing, and this has nothing to do with office politics, workplace drama, perhaps slightly it does. But just like general career advice, you are allowed to leave your job. You're allowed to quit, and you're allowed to quit at inopportune times. You are allowed to leave because you just want to, don't want to be there anymore. You are allowed to let people down, even if they are mentors, even if they are bosses. You really want to impress. I think it's so important that we remember in our 20s especially, like, this is just a job. This is just a job. As much as the hours that work demands from us now get us really enmeshed in the identity of work and in the identity of our career. At the end of the day, your whole life could fall apart and this would be the last thing you were thinking of. Well, hopefully it would be your whole life could fall apart and this workplace, this job could go and would go on without you. So make sure you have an identity outside of work. Make sure especially that you have friendships outside of work. Make sure that you are carving time outside of your job to be a human and not just a machine and not just a career or not just a workplace. Okay, that is my final tip for the day. I hope you enjoyed this episode and you enjoyed this little peek into the psychology behind office politics and how to navigate it a little bit better in our twenties. Thank you so much to our researcher Libby Colbert for her research contributions to this episode. She is, as always, incredible. If you have made it this far, leave a comment down below. What was your first job? I feel like I've asked this question before, but yeah, what was your first job? Mine was at Boost Juice smoothie shop in Australia. So I want to know what yours were. Make sure that if you are in the us, Australia, uk, Canada, New Zealand, Southeast Asia, that you watch us on Netflix. I feel like we all know, hopefully you guys all know this by now, but the podcast is on Netflix. You can go and watch full episodes there if you feel called to do. So you can also just listen here but make sure that you are following along or subscribed wherever you are listening so you get new episodes. You can follow us on Instagram, you can follow us on substack. I feel like you guys hear this all the time. The links are in the description if you are searching for them. But until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very very soon.
- [50:27]
CVS Announcer
At cvs. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit us@cvs.com or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.
- [51:02]
Electric For All Announcer
You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get at the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part? You won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life@electricforall.org
- [51:31]
Sheba Cat Food Announcer
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- [52:06]
Oestra/Inner Balance Announcer
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- [52:35]
Redfin Announcer
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- [53:10]
Gemma Spake
Guaranteed human.