← The Psychology of your 20s
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- [00:00]
Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed human I'm Jemma Spa, the host
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of the psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast answers the questions you'd wished you'd asked, like which meds may not work well together, what what vaccines you might need before a holiday, and even some of the questions you're too embarrassed to say out loud. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A big priority for me in 2026 is to make healthier, better choices so I can take care of myself and just have more energy for my everyday life. That is, of course easier said than done when life is so chaotic all of the time. But that is where Premier Protein shakes come in. They have 30 grams of prot, no added sugar, and tons of delicious flavors from cake batter to peaches and cream caramel. They are a healthy choice you'll actually want to make because they never feel boring.
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- [01:44]
Riley Wilson
This is Riley Wilson and Keon Miller from OK Storytime.
- [01:47]
Keon Miller
Friendly reminder.
- [01:48]
Riley Wilson
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Keon Miller
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Keon Miller
All you do is upload your documents to the app and then chill.
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Riley Wilson
You can listen to your favorite podcast, check your phone for real time updates and let your TurboTax expert handle every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome.
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Keon Miller
Is that easy?
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Riley Wilson
Visit turbotax.com to get started.
- [02:14]
Keon Miller
Real time updates are available on the iOS mobile app.
- [02:18]
Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
Before all of the algorithm fed, Bilar and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Podlings. You can find that fun feeling again all on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It's a fashion pursuit. I recently found a dress I've been looking for since I was probably 19 that I saw on a show many moons ago and the feeling was exhilarating. There's always more to discover on ebay. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee Ebay Things people love.
- [02:51]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [03:27]
Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
Hello everybody, I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
- [03:48]
Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. As we break down the psychology of your 20s. Today we have a very special episode. It is our 400th episode of the Psychology of your 20s. 400 that is honestly kind of difficult to fathom at this stage. I don't know every year when we hit like the next 100th mark of, of episodes, the next milestone, I always get so emotional and like sappy about, I don't know just how far we've come, how amazing the community is. I just feel like this podcast has such an amazing, an amazing like origin story in that I started it really not thinking it was going to be anything. It was just a personal project for me to document my 20s and it's just turned into such. It's just turned into the coolest community and now having all of these opportunities to obviously be on Netflix, like to go and tour and meet so many of you guys and like the book that came out last year, like it really is the coolest freaking job ever thanks to you guys. And so when this comes around every year when, when the birthday rolls around, I always try and do, yeah, I guess a special, a special episode. And this is what we're going to talk about today. Today I want to talk about this list I've been working on For I think, like, over the past month or so, the list of 15 things I think everybody should do in their 20s, the 15 things that may not be the most widely applauded achievements or milestones that society wants you to celebrate, but which I think will help us make the most of this decade and enter our 30s and enter the rest of our lives feeling like we really did and saw and directed our lives in like, the best possible way. I obviously think about my 20s, our 20s, a lot, as a concept and as like an important life chapter. But I especially think about how to make the most of them. This decade feels kind of like the last time when we're truly able to experiment, take risks, make mistakes, get away with things. Obviously, like, life continues after our 20s and we are able to reintroduce, reinvent ourselves until the day we die and able to take risks until the day we die. But I do think there are some experiences that are really crucial just to have during this decade, if not for the first time, the only time. And they leave a very, very sizable impact on us. I also think, again, like that list or milestone checklist that society tends to feed us, where we have to graduate, find our dream job, find our life partner, get married, buy a house, maybe have a baby, live happily ever after, is also very outdated. Despite its best intentions, I think those milestones miss the mark and they actually miss a lot of experiences that are just as important. So Today, for our 400th episode, I have rounded up the experiences, lessons, bucket list items that I think are most essential to do in our 20s or to have some kind of contact with in our 20s. It's not going to be the traditional checklist that you think of. It's definitely going to be a bit more unconventional. So if you are finding that, you know, your 20s aren't going according to plan, I think if you're able to check some of these things off this list, you are doing an incredible job. And I think it will help us and it has helped me making this list know where to direct my attention to outside of love, outside of my career, outside of financial goals, which is very, very important for our development in this decade. So without further ado, let's get into the 15 best things you need to do in your 20s. Okay, so let's start with some of my more basic run of the mill items that I put on the on this list before we get into some of the more controversial ones. The first big one is just to live away from home, and I don't mean home in terms of like your childhood home or move out of your parents house, that's obviously an amazing start. And this will require you to do that. I do mean more like live away from the city, the region, the town that feels like your place. Even if that place is New York City or Beijing or London, or like one of the biggest cities in the world. There are still opportunities a place like that or any other place cannot offer you if it is the only place you remain. And not just career opportunities, but development opportunities, cultural opportunities, friendship opportunities. I think this will be one of the more privileged items on this list. And some people, as we know, you know, don't have the means, don't have the desire to do this. But if there is even a sliver of you that is unhappy where you are, and if there is even a small part of you that is thinking about whether there is more and whether you should do this, you absolutely should, there is totally more out there for you. And the fact that you are thinking about it shows that a part of you is obviously calling for that and is obviously slightly dissatisfied. The reason this is my number one on the list is because it is probably also one of the biggest pattern disruptors we can have in our 20s that we get to opt into voluntarily. All the other pattern disruptors or big life changes are sometimes not as kind to us. Sometimes they're things we don't choose. A pattern disruptor like this, like moving out of your hometown, moving overseas, it's something that just automatically is able to pull us away from our habits, pull us away from our regular way of being our routine, pull us out of our boredom. And it's like this instant shift onto a new timeline. It's this instant shift into a new life. It breaks the habit of being yourself, the habit of being your old self. And it's truly incredible because of how much it is going to ask from you, and how much it is going to stretch you and how much the world opens up. That is the beauty of, of leaving, of saying goodbye. I just think you owe it to yourself. If you're thinking about moving overseas, thinking about living by yourself, thinking about moving out of your hometown, like you truly do owe it to yourself to see what's out there. You truly do owe it to yourself to realize that, like, I don't know, it's just you've been gifted this huge, wonderful world and hopefully you do get to see more of it than just the corner you were born into. Even if it's not permanent, even if you just have like A decade defining adventure of traveling for three months, of working in a foreign country, of just like volunteering in the middle of nowhere. It will just transform you as a person. And I do just think it is essential to your development to put yourself in the hot water of having to adjust to a whole new way of being and a whole new life and just of like kind of being on your own. Okay, the second thing on the list, understand how money works and how it actually works, like below the surface of basic concepts. One of my biggest regrets of my early 20s was that I just kind of assumed the basics I'd been taught about money were correct and were all there was to know. And I think a lot of us probably had a similar education where you were taught about the importance of a savings account, a budget, an emergency fund, and that was probably like where the ball stopped, if it even got there. Basically, like I remember being taught your money is either spent or saved. When you start to realize the possibility that money actually holds and how so many financial concepts and systems are being gatekept from you and keeping you dependent on a fixed income. And the nine to five, like you will be totally honestly shocked and just like, yeah, gobsmacked. I remember having this realization, especially in university, because that was like the first time that I'd met, I met really rich people, like really rich people for the first time who talked about assets and investment properties and stocks, bonds, ETFs, high yield savings account. Like all this lingo that had kind of like swirled around me but I never really thought to learn about. And now having really like made sure I know and made sure I educated myself. That is why this tip always makes any list I make about things to do in your 20s or regrets about my 20s. The best thing you can do for your future self right now is to spend eight hours over the next week, over the next month learning how money actually works, learning how investing works, learning how low the barrier for entry really is when it comes to like the stock market or when it comes to bonds or when it comes to investing even just like open up a trading account, you don't have to put any money in it. Open up like a high yield savings account. Just take the first step to being a part of the ecosystem or being a part of the population who understands money beyond just the buy and save kind of mindset. And there's just so many amazing resources. Friends that Invest is one of my like favorite online resources to learn. Even just like going to your bank's webpage and looking up, like how to invest. You'll know more than so many people and it will definitely show. Okay, next on the list, learn how to send things back. More generally, I really mean like, learn how to stick up for yourself. Now when I say learn how to send things back, obviously I mean like learn how to send things back at the restaurant, like if they get your order wrong. Learn how to be like, that's not what I wanted in a kind way. Learn how to be like, that's not what I asked for. Learn how to be like, that's not the behavior or, you know, the, the thing that I deserve, the attitude that I deserve. More generally, I really mean, at some stage in your twenties, you need to learn that being nice, being kind, being polite and being respectful are not all the same thing. There is a lot of nuance to our good behavior and there's a lot of people who benefit from us believing that being a kind person means we have to be passive, overly nice, overly self effacing. It is really critical that during this decade you start to unlearn that. For the first half of my 20s, I, I think I just kind of let people walk all over me. I would never send anything back at a restaurant. I would never complain about anything. I would never stand up for myself. And I just lost out on so much and I just wasted so much money and time. And it only like changed very recently actually when I was in Australia and I was living at this house in New Town. And it's like kind of a funny story, but there was just this one day where I had this neighbor who didn't like me very much and who I didn't get along with very well, who was kind of this older woman. And one day it was like 3pm and we were like playing, I don't know, Charlie XCX. It was a beautiful sunny day and she like came out and she just like let loose at me and she was yelling at me. She was like, obviously had been very frustrated by me and she was like, why are you playing music? We were like, well, it's 3pm Anyways, long story short, it was just this moment where I was like being really, really nice, being very apologetic. And then I kind of just was like, I don't really have to take this anymore. Like I'm not a little kid, like I can't get in trouble, I'm not a child. Like I can just stick up for myself. And it was so interesting, like seeing how her approach to me just like shifted in that moment and seeing how She I genuinely, this is going to sound so me, but I felt like I became like an adult in that moment. And I could see her in her eyes, how she was viewing me as a child in the beginning. And then the moment that I like switched and stop for myself, she started treating me as an adult. And I just think it's such an essential skill to just be like, actually, I don't deserve this, actually I don't want this. Actually I didn't order this. And I'm going to say something because my time and my money and my wants and my needs and desires are just as important as anybody else. The fourth thing you should absolutely do in your 20s, quit something. You really depended on, whether that is nicotine, whether that is alcohol, whether that is a person, a bad habit, whatever it is. This will be one of the hardest things I think you do. It will also probably save your life in a very obvious way for some things, in a very physical way, like with alcohol, like with tobacco, but also in a mental and emotional and psychological way as well. Quitting something you're dependent on will prove to you that you are capable of being in control of your own behavior. Otherwise you will always be limited by the thing that controls you. When you decide, when you make a conscious decision of like, actually, I don't have any control over this and I want to take back my control, you rebuild your ability to internally regulate without being externally reliant on something. You rebuild your sense of agency, you rebuild your ability to be in control. Essentially in psychology, we call it like self efficacy, the ability to master your reality and master your experiences and to essentially say, I'm going to put my mind to something and I'm going to do it and I can trust myself to do it. You really kind of realize that when you quit something, whatever it is, this bad addictive thing, you are all you need. Like you are truly all you need. You actually don't need this thing to survive. And from that, and having done that and conquered that, the confidence and self assurance that you have in yourself that you are mentally strong, that you are resilient, that you are capable of doing hard things, is, and this is going to sound so cliche, like more powerful than any drug, more powerful than any substance. That's self trusting. That you gain from being like, I am actually in control of my relationship with this thing, and if it is not making me happy, we don't have to have a relationship anymore, is supremely powerful and like such a big sign that you are maturing and you are growing up and you are taking yourself and your life seriously. Number five, another cliche, one, I'm sorry, but in your 20s you need to fall in love with a hobby or a practice that you do just for yourself. I'm going to hold your hand and ask you this very seriously right now. Do you have a hobby? Do you have a hobby that you regularly practice that you genuinely find is a core part of who you are? Do you have a hobby that has nothing to do with making money, nothing to do with how other people see you, nothing to do with being online, scrolling or consuming? Do you have a purely self centered outlet? It's so easy in our twenties and at any age in this like current media landscape to just be somebody who consumes and consumes and consumes. And the thing I always say is like you are what you eat. You are also the digital and external environment that you create for yourself. And so if you don't have anything beyond you that feels like a garden that you can water and if you don't have anything beyond you that feels like something that you can pour life and love into. And if it goes bad or if it is bad, it really doesn't matter. It's just for you. I do think that you will enter your 30s and enter the rest of your life at a bit of a crisis point because this big hallmark and important part of your identity remains deeply unstable. The part of your identity that is separate from anything external will remain quite shaky. So this is the wake up call and it's a wake up call for me as well. Really find something that you like doing and get good at it or get good at enjoying it independently, whether other people see worth in it or not. Get a hobby basically. Okay, we're going to take a short break but then we will be right back with more of our list items foreign.
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The endless sea of dupes. Shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession, Podlings. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I recently found a dress I had been looking for since I was 19. I saw it on a TV show and I swear it called out to me. And it has been something I have come back to time and time again. I have searched everywhere, every single secondhand store until finally I found it in my size on ebay. It's about the thrill of finding pieces just like that. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you as well. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love Nothing quite hits like a home cooked meal and hellofresh makes it easier to do more of that this year with recipes that feel good and taste delicious. Night after night. Cooking for myself has become a practice. I am really trying to do more and when you have over 100 recipes to choose from each week, meals which are easy to whip up, which taste delicious, that habit becomes easier. Hellofresh gives you so much variety with high protein recipes, mediterranean recipes, winter warmers all made with wholesome ingredients, and seasonal produce like juicy pears, apples, delicious seafood. When dinner tastes this good, nothing hits quite like home cooking. Genuinely guys, I use hellofresh if you're busy.
- [22:54]
If you want to cook more at
- [22:55]
home you should too. Go to hellofresh.com gemma10fm to get 10 free meals plus a freeze filling knife that is at $144.99 value on your third box offer valid while supplies last free meals applied as a discount on your first box. New subscribers only varies by planning I feel like in every episode I talk about how exhausted and overwhelmed I am because it's true. I'm trying to balance a lot and taking care of myself often falls off the list. That is where Premier Protein shakes come in. They have 30 grams of protein, no added sugar and tons of delicious flavors like cake batter, peaches and cream caramel. Premier protein shakes are a healthy choice you will actually want to make. Premier Protein powers you to say yes to more. Whether it's crushing a big presentation, building an epic fort, hitting the hiking trail with friends. Find your favorite flavor@premierprotein.com I'm Jemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks you do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That is exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. J. Goodman, a board certified psychiatrist and health educator, this show takes you behind the counter to answer the questions you'd wish you'd asked, like what medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you consider before a big trip? And even those questions you're a little bit too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends and and gives you real, trustworthy advice from the experts you see the most. Your neighborhood CVS Pharmacist no white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:57]
Riley Wilson
This is Riley Wilson and Keon Miller from ok Storytime.
- [25:00]
Keon Miller
Okay, honest question. Are you someone that does your taxes the minute you can, or someone who waits until the last possible second?
- [25:06]
Riley Wilson
Wow, calling me out already. But yes, last possible second every year.
- [25:11]
Keon Miller
Same. Which is why I'm very into anything that makes tax season easier.
- [25:16]
Riley Wilson
Enter Intuit TurboTax.
- [25:17]
Keon Miller
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- [25:23]
Riley Wilson
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- [25:29]
Keon Miller
All you do is upload your documents to the app, then go live your
- [25:31]
Riley Wilson
life like you can be, listening to this podcast, grabbing coffee, or pretending you're being productive.
- [25:36]
Keon Miller
Meanwhile, a dedicated TurboTax expert is checking every deduction and credit to help get you the best possible outcome.
- [25:43]
Riley Wilson
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- [25:49]
Keon Miller
So instead of overthinking it, let a
- [25:51]
Riley Wilson
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- [25:53]
Keon Miller
Visit TurboTax.com to get started.
- [25:55]
Riley Wilson
Real time updates are available on the iOS mobile app.
- [25:59]
Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
I think we're up to number six. This is one of the most important ones and practical ones that I think I have on this list, which is find a way to document your life that resonates with you. Whether that is a podcast like this one, a private Instagram, a yearly scrapbook, journaling junk, journaling photo albums. This is so deeply important. When I was in my early 20s, I used to do this thing called one second every day. I don't know if you guys have heard about this. It's this app that had this, like, major huge moment maybe in like 2017, 2018, where you would record one second every day and then at the end of the year, like all of you and your friends would like, upload them to YouTube. Maybe this is just a unique experience. And the reason why, and the reason why documenting life is so essential for our psychology and for our mental health is because of the role it plays in narrative psychology. Narrative psychology is such a buzzword on this podcast. I think it's one of our most used phrases and most related to concepts. But essentially what narrative psychology says is that if you don't have a story that is running through the center of your life. If you don't have a story that you are telling yourself about your life, if your experiences are not connected, if you cannot remember them, you will really struggle to know who you are and you will really struggle to get the lessons you need out of life, get the joy you need out of life. Because part of the joy of life is really being appreciative of the journey. And part of the joy of life is hindsight, is the hindsight of getting to look back at who you were at 21 and 23 and 24, see images, see remnants of that life through scrapbooks or through like junk journaling and just kind of see how far you've come. And especially in our 20s, like this decade is like this rich oil field of experiences and it's just like such fertile soil for learning and discovering and for identity. And I think that if you want to continue to learn from those experiences or continue to have the lessons that you are learning, one of the easiest ways to do that is to have some kind of physical reminder of who you were during this time for you to kind of like bring forward with you into the next chapters of your life. So if you haven't started yet, start documenting your 20s now. Number seven, throw yourself deeply into love, even if the possibility of heartbreak is absolutely terrifying. There's all these dating narratives online that I think can honestly make love very, very confusing. You know, articles that go viral about like, is having a boyfriend embarrassing? Why should you be dating three people at once? Who pays the bill? What does double texting say about me? How many months before I soft launch? How many months before I hard launch? Like, all these attempts to create rules around love to make it safer, and it just means that I think we overthink it too much. Sometimes you just got to do it the old fashioned way. Sometimes the best thing you can do for your personal development and for your self improvement is to just be like so stupidly in love with somebody and just to fall ridiculously hard even if you get hurt. And you know what? I can already hear a lot of naysayers on the other end of this. Being like that is terrible advice. That's how people get hurt. I don't know what's wrong if this person isn't like an abusive asshole. Like, what's wrong with getting a little bit hurt? What's wrong with getting your heart a little bit broken and just really feeling like the profound lessons and shocks of love Genuinely, I would not be, I would have nothing without heartbreak. I look around at like, my life and my apartment in London and my job and my dog and my friends and I don't know, my book, like, just all these things. And I'm like, I would have none of this if those like. And I'm thinking of like a couple specific relationships. But, like, yeah, if a couple specific relationships hadn't worked out, and if I'm being completely honest, one of those relationships for sure. I entered knowing I was going to get hurt. And I think a part of me made peace with that because I was like, but what comes after is going to be freaking amazing. Like, talk about fertile soil in our 20s. Like, breakups are the most fertile emotional soil that you will come across. They will transform your life. They are genuinely like steroids for self development. So even if the relationship doesn't work out, if you have the opportunity to just like, bet it all on love and to just be like, I'm so down to just get obliterated here, I think you should absolutely do it. And if you don't agree with me, that's also okay. Feel free to send me some feedback on that one. Number eight, quit the first job you have, even if it is your dream job. Another controversial one. I quit my dream job. I quit my dream job because a major part of me knew that, like, being too comfortable gets me pretty close to being stagnant. I just think again, you have to let yourself see what else is out there and see what else could come at you. You have to increase, like, your target space for luck to hit you. And if you just stay in the same space, if you just stay in the same job, even if it is really an amazing job and it is paying you really well and you worked really hard for it, I think you get left with a lot of what ifs. And the thing is, is that this is the time in your life when you are and can be the most resilient. So exiting or leaving the dream job means that, like, during this time means that you're going to have as many and the most years you'll probably ever have to come back to it if it does end up being the thing that you love. But it's also the time you're going to have the most years to just explore and to figure things out. This is deeply anecdotal, right? I don't know if people who do this are happier. I can't give you the promise, but anecdotally, the people I hear from and the people I see who are kind of at like the precipice of turning 40 or turning 30 who feel the most unsure about their careers are actually those who stayed or who seemingly have the most stable careers because they've been in the same job for a very long time. And it's very hard to leave those environments. But I think you again just owe it to yourself to just be like, what else could hit me? What other things could happen to me if I just like let my life and my weeks and my months be open to them. Okay, number nine, I need you to make a loose and aspirational plan for your life. This is what I call the great life plan. Very easily marketable name. This is not a five year plan. I kind of hate those. It is not a step by step master plan for your entire life. It is just a delusionally optimistic vision for what you want your life to be in 20 years, 50 years, 15 years would if everything went according to plan. The goal of this is not for it to go according to plan. The goal of it is actually for it not to all come true. Most of the time it won't. A lot of luck and fate and context comes into play. The goal of this great life plan is just to provide an aspirational structure or like a vision that you can work towards that inspires you. There are a few reasons why I think we all need to like at some stage sit down and articulate this and why I think it's important. I think it's important because it keeps you focused on what is meaningful to you and what is not meaningful and therefore unnecessary. So much of our 20s is sometimes focused on what seems outwardly impressive, what others are doing that we feel like we have to. The detours, the milestones we feel like we need to check off. But if that doesn't actually align with your plan, don't do it. And if you don't know what your plan is, you will end up doing a lot of things you actually never wanted to do in the first place. If your long term vision of happiness isn't to live overseas, don't go and live overseas if you know that's not what you need to be happy. If your long term vision is to have your own business, don't feel so pressured by everyone's promotions on LinkedIn and believe that's what you need to be doing. It's not your dream, it's not your plan. You have to be able to articulate what your vision is. As long as that is what you are working towards, it really helps you keep your blinders up to Everybody else and everything else that's going on around you. It stops us from being as well, I think, passive by only thinking a few feet ahead of ourselves as well. Like it stops us from being stuck in the moment of needing everything to be perfect right now. Having a great life plan I think helps us realize that, you know, we're not working for life to be great in five years. Right, you're working for life to be great all up. So this aspiration actually makes decision making, I know it sounds kind of controversial, or not controversial, but contradictory. It does make decision making easier because it takes away a lot of the urgency and the short term anxiety of the perfect choice right now. And it just lets you see the long term perspective for what you're working towards and the detours that the great life plan allows for. I think without a vision, right, all good options look equally good and look equally promising and therefore the choice becomes equally stressful. When you have vision, you the options become clearer because you can really identify what matches my vision, what doesn't, what energizes me, what doesn't. You're no longer just choosing randomly, you're no longer obsessing over the perfect choice because the vision stands regardless of the individual choices. You know, instead of asking like, is this the perfect job? You're able to ask, does this move me further towards the life I want? Instead of like, what if I choose wrong? It's like, does this choice allow me to build skills or knowledge that are going to bring me value? Even if this doesn't work out, There is all this research in psychology on, on goal setting that shows having a meaningfully clear enough long term goal, having some kind of aspiration will help you filter short term options. Even if that long term aspiration changes. You stop asking, you know, what is perfect? You start asking, what thing is going to bring me closer? Which choice is more aligned with what I want to do versus the appearance or the expectations that others have from me. I also think the final importance of this is that it expands your possibility. Like, this is not the decade to think small. If this episode has taught you anything. In your 20s, it is very easy to unconsciously shrink your dreams to what feels realistic. And it's very easy to whittle everything down. And it becomes harder to re expand that later on because your brain feels even more foolish for doing so because it's already closed off those possibilities. Having this deliberately. Yeah, delusional vision pushes back against that natural cognitive narrowing that a lot of people experience the older they get. And Instead it says, I'm going to choose to be optimistic, I'm going to choose to think big, I'm going to choose not to be realistic and see what happens. And that is strongly linked to long term success. Genuinely. Look at half the people that you admire. They would not. They are probably not the most talented, they are probably not the most hardworking, they probably are. But they're definitely not always the most talented. A great deal of their success comes down to delusion and the fact that they had the guts and the courage and the belief to put themselves in lux kind of range, if that makes sense. They allowed them to be a target for opportunities by increasing their presence and by increasing their commitment to what they wanted to do. And just being like, I'm going to be in those spaces. This is not my time to think small. I'm going to risk everything. That is our next thing. The next thing on this list of like the things you should do in your 20s, bet everything on a risk. Because why not? Why not? Like genuinely, can you give me a reason why not? That you wouldn't eventually realize as an excuse, or can you give me a reason why not? That wouldn't eventually be an amazing part of your origin story. Wouldn't eventually be the barrier that you overcome. Your 20s are, we say this all the time, uniquely designed for risk? For a lot of reasons. The first one being that the cost of failure is just naturally lower. You usually have fewer dependents, fewer financial obligations, fewer people relying on you. The margin for error may be wider, but if something collapses, you can rebuild. At 25, a failed business is just a story. At 45, it might involve savings, a mortgage, school fees. You have more flexibility around risk. You have more opportunities as well to just seem gutsy. And for people to celebrate that and think that that is amazing, think that you are really cool for doing that. The second reason I really think that you need to bet it all on risk is that we know regret will hit you harder than failure, right? Studies on long term regret show that people regret inaction more than action. Over time, they are more likely to regret those moments of like, what if I tried over, why didn't that work out? Your 20s are the time when you have more what ifs available to test and more regret to avoid by just trying. Third, I don't think you feel locked into one identity yet. Like you don't have the weight of a legacy weighing you down. If you start in your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, which of course you can, 70s, 80s, 90s, like it's going to be a little bit harder because your identity is already solidified around probably one thing. There's reputation, there's history. Like you are the lawyer, you are the accountant, you are the mother. Like you have found your role goal. And so changing direction, the older you get and the longer you wait can feel like you are dismantling more. But in your 20s, like that structure just isn't there. The structure is a lot looser. You're allowed to contradict yourself, like people almost expect it, that you can be like pre law one day a photographer the next. You can move cities without it being called like a midlife crisis. You can reinvent your style, your politics, your ambitions, like your goals. And it's normalized. It's seen as exploration, not instability. And it's not that you can't continue to do that later in life. I know so many people who are like, I have somebody I know who's like in their 50s, who is going back to like med school. You have so many opportunities to be able to do that. It's just that now your emotional tolerance and the flexibility of your life to handle this and to handle things going wrong is just more adaptable and it's just, yeah, more flexible. There's just a little bit more give and take, I guess to, to the risks you're taking and to the fact that they might not work out. So if you have a risk in mind that you're like, I don't know if I can go that big. I don't know if like that's really for me. I'm too scared that it might not work out. Like you have very little to, to lose that is tangible. Maybe some, maybe money, maybe what reputation, maybe you do fail. I just think the story of failure is just a much more enjoyable and entertaining one than the story of not trying. Because at least in the story of failure, somebody did something. At least you did something, at least you tried. So I think you owe it to yourself. Okay, we're going to take one more short break before we get into our final five. Stay with us.
- [42:24]
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- [44:29]
Riley Wilson
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Keon Miller
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Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
I'm Jim Sp, the host of the Psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks you do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That is exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jay Goodman, a board certified psychiatrist and health education educator, this show takes you behind the counter to answer the questions you'd wish you'd asked. Like what medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you consider before a big trip? And even those questions you're a little bit too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you real, trustworthy advice from the experts you see the most. Your neighborhood CVS pharmacist. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Ryan Seacrest
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Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
Okay, number 11 do a social audit. What I mean by this is look around at your close friends, look around at your relationships and really analyze Is this person a reflection of who I want to be? Is this person good for me and am I good for them? Do I like being around these kinds of people? Do I like who I am with these kinds of people? You've probably heard of the rule of five, which is that we are the five people we are closest to and so you have to choose carefully. Like, that's something that was very drilled into me when I was younger. Psychology says that's not entirely accurate. It's more like 15 with a few core relationships like impacting us the most, like a partner or a best friend. But it does. This rule of five does strike at a core human fact. Like you become who you surround yourself with. So if your friends I know it's going to sound harsh, but if your Friends do not inspire you if your friends do not make you want to be better. If. If your friends do not make a big deal about you, do not make you feel great about yourself, do not push you to be better. Like, you are missing out on one of the easiest ways to make your life better, which is to have great friends. And maybe that hesitation and that doubt around your friendships is pushing you to find some better people. There is this amazing study that was published in 2024 titled, I think Emotion contagion and, like, Psychological synchrony or something. And in the study, it looked at a number of friendship dyads, so pairs of friends. And what it found was that their emotional states were literally contagious to their other friend compared to strangers. So, like, in this room, they would have one of the friends, one member of the friendship, like, watching a movie, a very sad movie, a very happy movie, a very scary movie, and they would have the other friend, like, watching them, and they had them tied up to all this, like, cool fancy equipment. And what they would find was that even though there were no words being spoken, even though the friend was not watching the movie, just watching their own friend's reaction impacted their emotional state, impacted how they were responding in a completely separate environment. The emotions, the mood, the personalities, the attitude, the mindset of your friends is contagious. It's called social osmosis. Well, that's kind of what I like to call it, social osmosis, which is that, like, being around somebody will imbue parts of you with parts of their character. That is like a deep responsibility of our friends, a deep responsibility of our friends. And in us, choosing our friends is to choose people whose influence on us is going to be for good and whose character life we can look at and say, I genuinely admire you and I admire what you're doing. So much so that, like, I want a piece of that. Like, I want that to influence me. You know, do a friendship order at some point in your 20s, look around at your friends, and just not in a callous way, not in a cruel way, but just really ask yourself, like, are we what's best for each other? And people have bad weeks, People have bad months. People have bad years. Like, I've definitely had a few bad years. So I'm not saying cut out all your friends who are, like, downers, but do really consider whether either of you, both of you, are getting what you deserve out of friendship. And don't be afraid at some stage to be like, hey, you know, like, I want more for Myself and I want more out of the people who I choose to spend my time around. Like I want, I want to prioritize people who prioritize me. Number 12, do something physically and mentally challenging in your 20s just to prove you can. I know we talked about like the quitting, something you're dependent on. This is like a physical challenge. Whether it is a, like multi day hike, whether it is a marathon, whatever it is, whether it is a pilgrimage, a lot of these are really like hiking related. At some stage in your 20s, choose like a physical thing and you know you're going to have to push yourself hard to complete and like really say to yourself, I'm going to do that, I'm going to complete this. This is going to be my mission for the next however many months, however many years. I know I made this video the other day that was like, I know I can do hard things now. I, now I need to learn easy things. So this might sound like kind of hypocritical, but I do think that you can only grow as far as you can see yourself suffering, which sounds really awful. But what I mean by that is like there's, there's if you really believe like I can't do that and it's all in your head or if there are things that you genuinely are like, I don't have what it takes to try this thing, I don't have what it takes to do this risk. I don't have what it takes to like put myself out there. Doing a task, doing a challenge like this. That puts you in probably a very similar mental state of suffering, of pain, of just like frustration and then showing yourself step by step, moment by moment, that you are capable of taking that bad day, taking that bad mood, taking that leg cramp, whatever it is, and moving through it is so psychologically powerful for anything else you want to do in life is so psychologically powerful because it much like the quitting, the thing you're dependent on, much like I guess the addiction part of this conversation, it just rewires your brain and it rewires yourself for self belief and for self trust and for knowing that you are capable of so much more. So add that to your bucket list. A physically challenging adventure that you're going to tick off by the time you turn 30. This one is also, I think extra special and extra important and also quite intangible. So I'm sorry, but learn how to stop hating yourself. At some stage you gotta learn like hating yourself doesn't help with anything. You might think that it helps with discipline. You might think that it helps you, I don't know, work harder, do whatever. Like, I remember thinking that, like, if I hated myself enough, like, I would finally have, like, the motivation to do things and I'd finally, like, be able to beat myself into submission when it came to my dreams. It never worked. Like, self hatred is, yeah, an incredibly powerful motivator, but it also is terrible for performance. So if you do one thing in your 20s, if you finish your 20s and you have done, you've never gotten a job, you've never been in a relationship, you've never moved out of home, whatever, you have not a dime to your name, but you can genuinely say, like, but I really, I really love myself and I learned how to stop hating myself. I still think that's a, that's a win. If you've done, like, nothing else on this list, like, you are further ahead in life than 99 of people, what
- [54:16]
are we up to?
- [54:17]
I think number 14, spend a week alone. Whether that is like in the neighboring town, solo traveling in your own city, not seeing your friends, walking around, doing your own thing. Spend a week alone by yourself. You have no idea how much of our lives are wired around others. For good and for bad, right? We're social animals, but their needs, their preferences, their opinions, their direction, whether it's your boss, your partner, your friends, strangers, like people that you know. Most of us structure our nervous systems around other people. We regulate through venting and conversation, or through distraction or validation. We get our sense of identity from what other people think of us. We let our lives be directed by their desires. When you leave that, even temporarily, your brain is going to recalibrate at a, to a crazy extent and it's painful at first. There was a 2014 study, very famous, that found that, like, amongst these participants, the majority of people would rather mildly electrocute themselves with an electric shock than spend 15 minutes with their thoughts. That is how uncomfortable solitude is for us. But choosing to voluntarily step into solitude will literally change your internal wiring so fast. If you choose to do so, it will give you such a power surge, such an idea, deadly boost on such a sped up timeline. In the first like 24 to 48 hours, you're going to feel really uncomfortable. There's going to be this deep urge to reach out to somebody, to go get dinner, to go on social media, to, like, fill the silence. Then your brain starts to like, starts to basically realize that that's not an option. And something starts to change. Something interesting happens when research by Neuroscientists essentially show that your brain starts to be like, oh, I'm actually very, very interesting. It starts to really like uncover new facets of, of what you're doing. It's called constructive internal reflection. Essentially like your brain's default like mode network is activated. This is like responsible for self referential thinking for like autobiographical memory. Suddenly these different new but old parts of you, like you become really awakened to it. People report leaving periods of solitude or leaving voluntary time spent by themselves with a whole new sense of themselves that feels almost like ancient and authentic to them. Like in such an emotionally socially stimulated world and environment where your phone can essentially give you any emotion that you want to feel, when it's so much easier to like talk to people or let other people regulate our emotions. For us, stepping away from that and just allowing ourselves to just be incredibly flexible and in our own world and on our own timeline, even just for a week is such a spiritual experience, to be honest. Especially if you like combine it with travel. We've done a whole episode on like the psychology of solo travel with all of the statistics and the findings and the studies on the power of this. But I think it's one of the best things that you can do. My final thing on this list, the final thing I think you need to do in your twenties, change your mind about something. Change your mind about a belief, about a person, about an opinion. This is something that I've done in the past year that humbled me deeply and then genuinely changed my life. Because a lot of our, I think our youth, I don't know, our youth, our younger years is like a whole part of growing up is that you is putting yourself at the center, right? When you're a kid, you're at the center of all your own stories, you're at the center of all your own experiences. So same as when you're a teenager, when you're in your 20s as well. Like there is a real, I don't know, like developmental incentive to be quite selfish and self centered and to really think that you know everything and to be right. Because it's protecting your ego, right. And it's protecting your identity and it's trying to make you feel good about yourself. I think one of the biggest signs of maturity and one of the biggest signs that like you have really learned some solid lessons from your 20s is when you are able to say, this is something I once believed and I do not believe it anymore. And I'm okay with the friction that causes within myself. I am okay with acknowledging that I was wrong and that I am not a perfect person and that somebody else might know more than me and that somebody else's opinion might be more correct than mine. I just think that that is so great for cognitive flexibility, so great for our relationships. The people who grow up to find love, very hard friendship, very hard. Marriage, very hard work, very hard. I think what I've often heard and seen is it's the people who are never able to have any empathy for how others operate because they are never able to see themselves as being wrong. Their ego remains so rigid. So I think that's something that all of us could really benefit from working on. That is all for our 400th episode. Thank you so much. If you have listened to this far, I think if you've done even half of these things on this list, maybe you are like, sitting there being like, I've done them all. I have done these all. I'm. I'm good to go. Well, then, congratulations. Send it to a friend who you think may be struggling with some milestone anxiety. If you think this less traditional list might be helpful for them, might be helpful for, like, the comparison trap. Might be helpful for a bit of anxiety they're having about their 20s and have they done enough and will they do enough? I hope it helps them as well. Remember that if you are in Australia, the uk, New Zealand, all the us, Canada, look at that. Can't even say all the places. Just if you think, if you want to watch it, go see if it's on Netflix. It just might be there in your country. Again, I want to thank you if you have been here since yesterday, if you have been here since 2021, five years ago now, thank you for listening to the podcast. Thank you for supporting it. Every single thing is because of you guys and because of the support that you have shown just by listening. So I'm very deeply grateful on this day and all of the others. But as we wrap up this episode, remember, be safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself, and thank you as always, for tuning in. Foreign.
- [61:10]
For me in 2026 is to make healthier, better choices so I can take care of myself and just have more energy for my everyday life. That is, of course, easier said than done when life is so chaotic all of the time. But that is where premier protein shakes come in. They have 30 grams of protein, no added sugar, and tons of delicious flavors from, from cake batter to peaches and cream caramel. They are a healthy choice you'll actually want to make because they never feel boring.
- [61:40]
Focusing on fitness and health can be
- [61:41]
really overwhelming, but having 30 grams of protein immediately in the morning with Premier Protein can really get you moving and enjoying life. Premier Protein powers you to say yes to more. Whether it's crushing a big presentation at work, building an epic fort with your kids, or hitting the hiking trail with friends. Find your favorite flavor@premier protein.com that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.
- [62:11]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock up Savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Lindor, Chips Ahoy, Gatorade, Host, Ziploc and Zoa. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions
- [62:42]
CVS Pharmacy Representative
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- [64:17]
Jemma Spa / Gemma Spake
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.