403. How to do hard things (using psychology)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Psychology of your 20s

Episode 403: How to Do Hard Things (Using Psychology)

Host: Jemma Sbeg
Date: April 4, 2026

---

Overview

In this episode, Jemma Sbeg explores why “hard things” feel so daunting in our 20s and how principles from psychology and neuroscience can help us approach them more strategically. Instead of seeing tough tasks as painful slogs, Jemma reframes them as chances for growth, fulfillment, and even enjoyment—if we tweak the way we engage with them. She covers cognitive behavioral strategies, the effort paradox, motivation science, and actionable ways to train your brain for hard tasks, all within the relatable context of twenty-something life.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking What It Means to “Do Hard Things”

• Value in Effort: Jemma begins by questioning the old adage “If it was easy, everyone would do it.” She discusses how, as we age, our relationship with difficulty changes.
  • “Does that necessarily mean that [hard things] need to be unenjoyable or difficult? … Does it always have to be such, like, a mental slug?” (03:39)
• Effort Paradox:
  • The more effort we put into something, the more we value it (e.g., the handmade mug over the Ikea mug).
  • “The more effort we put into something, the more we value it.” (06:45)

---

2. The Five-Minute Rule: Overcoming the Start Barrier

• Transition Is the Hardest Part:
  • The hardest part is going from nothing to something. Starting feels overwhelming because we imagine the whole task at once.
  • “That jump from doing nothing to something is the hardest. And it stops a lot of us from ever really beginning…” (08:41)
• Practical Strategy:
  • Commit to doing the task for just five minutes.
  • Reduces the psychological burden and perfectionist pressure that halts us from starting.
  • “You do only have to do it for five minutes. So if you’re at the end of that period of time and you’re like, okay, I want to stop, that’s fine… but at least you did it.” (13:58)
• Procrastination & Perfectionism:
  • Procrastination is often perfectionism in disguise. Doing anything, even imperfectly for five minutes, bypasses this barrier.

---

3. Mental Imagery & Role Models: Motivation by Visualization

• Imagining Success or Emulating Others:
  • Visualizing someone you admire doing the task, or picturing an “elite” version of yourself (such as “Elite Gym Gemma” at the gym), boosts courage and motivation.
  • “I picture the best person I know at that thing. … I think about how they would go about it.” (16:40)
  • “If you feed [your mind] artificial confidence… it’s going to eat that up and it’s not going to know the difference between that and a negative or self-doubting thought.” (21:37)
• Supporting Research:
  • Referenced 2019 study: Visualizing oneself successfully completing a hard activity led to higher completion rates than simply being told to complete it.

---

4. Mood Matters: Picking the Right Moment to Face Hard Tasks

• Emotional State Affects Willpower:
  • Trying hard tasks when you’re upset drains resources further and strengthens negative associations.
  • “When people are upset, they are less likely to try and do hard things. Very common sense, but… it’s really important to build positive associations.” (22:48)
• Use Good Moods Strategically:
  • Accomplishing tough goals while in a positive state not only increases chances of completion but also amplifies your good mood.
  • Counterintuitive tip: Don’t tackle big personal development tasks in a bad mood.

---

5. Falling in Love with the Process: The Theory of Learned Industriousness

• Beyond the Outcome:
  • Performing better and persisting is easier if you enjoy the process itself, not just the end reward.
  • “There is a psychological theory that when we don’t just fall in love with the result, but we fall in love with the process, we actually perform better and we get further. And this theory is known as learned industriousness.” (27:55)
• How to Do This:
  • Romanticize your routine (imagine yourself as a famous author, for example).
  • Take stock of progress—track small improvements to fuel further efforts.
  • Use physical rewards as reinforcement (e.g., treat yourself after milestones).

---

6. The Types of Motivation: Intrinsic, Integrated, and Extrinsic

• Intrinsic Motivation:
  • Doing something purely for enjoyment (the “highest” form).
  • “One way that we can make it so that we enjoy doing something… is by associating positive experiences and reward with… performance, determination, commitment.” (34:42)
• Integrated Motivation:
  • When a task lines up with your self-identity or values.
  • “We can make our motivation to complete a task attached to our identity. … It becomes… this gateway to being a more true, authentic version of yourself.” (37:40)
• Extrinsic Motivation:
  • Doing things for external validation, accountability, or social pressure (e.g., studying in public to avoid distractions).
  • “Doing things publicly… promising others that you’re going to do it as a way to make you feel like you’re accountable.” (40:16)
• Hierarchy of Motivation:
  • Start with intrinsic, then integrated, and rely on extrinsic as a backup when the first two don’t work.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Effort and Value:
  • “You value the crappy mug that you made at a pottery class over the perfect mug that you got at Ikea.” (06:58)
• On Perfectionism:
  • “One of the foundations of procrastination… is perfectionism. If you are an overachiever… the beginning of a task is always gonna be the hardest.” (11:48)
• On Artificial Confidence:
  • “Your mind is the source of all your beliefs about how able you are… If you feed it artificial confidence based on how someone else does things… it’s going to eat that up.” (21:37)
• On Mood and Motivation:
  • “If you are in the best mood, you’ve had a great day, you’re feeling motivated, that’s when you’ve got to almost slide in the hard tasks. It’s like when parents sneak vegetables into meatballs.” (24:27)
• On Practice and Progress:
  • “Notice the signs of progress and let them serve as the re to kind of further fuel your fire.” (31:43)
• On Motivation Types:
  • “I clean the toilet because I’m someone who is conscientious… Even though I don’t enjoy this, I’m gonna do it because it reinforces something I find important about my identity.” (38:12)
• On Social Accountability:
  • “She studies in very public places because it, you know, makes her feel almost embarrassed to go on her phone… acknowledgement that someone could be watching her…” (40:56)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Rethinking “Hard Things” and the Effort Paradox: 03:39 – 07:30
• The Five-Minute Rule & Perfectionism: 08:41 – 13:58
• Mental Imagery & Visualization Techniques: 16:40 – 22:30
• Mood and the Best Time to Tackle Tasks: 22:48 – 24:27
• Learned Industriousness & Falling in Love with the Process: 27:55 – 34:14
• Types of Motivation Explained (Intrinsic, Integrated, Extrinsic): 34:42 – 41:10
• Recap and Motivation Takeaway: 41:11 – 42:30

---

Recap & Final Takeaways

Jemma closes by stressing that these strategies aren’t about grinding harder, but working smarter—learning to “trick” your brain into seeing hard things in a more positive, proactive light. Through small, mindful changes—five-minute rules, positive visualization, mood management, and types of motivation—you can rewire your habits for better productivity and greater fulfillment.

---

Useful For:
Anyone struggling to begin or stick with hard tasks—be it studying, job hunting, forming habits, or dealing with personal challenges—in their twenties or beyond.

Tone:
Warm, practical, and empathetic, with relatable examples and self-deprecating humor.

---

If you enjoyed the episode or want actionable insights for real-life “hard things,” this one is a must-listen.
For more, follow the show and check out Jemma’s new book!

Transcript

[Gemma Speck]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human

[CVS Pharmacy Announcer]

support is available 247 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help because a great trip

[Gemma Speck]

starts with the right support. I'm Gemma Speck, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast answers the questions you'd wished you'd asked, like which meds may not work well together, what vaccines you might need before a holiday, and even some of the questions you're too embarrassed to say out loud. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Riley Wilson]

This is Riley Wilson and Keon Miller from OK Storytime.

[Keon Miller]

Friendly reminder Tax season is here, but

[Riley Wilson]

before anyone spirals, here's another reminder. Intuit TurboTax is here too, and TurboTax

[Keon Miller]

Expert full service can turn tax season into a total non event.

[Riley Wilson]

Yep, a non event. You get matched with a real tax expert who handles everything for you, start to finish.

[Keon Miller]

All you do is upload your documents to the app and then chill.

[Riley Wilson]

You can listen to your favorite podcast, check your phone for real time updates, and let your TurboTax expert handle every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible possible outcome.

[Keon Miller]

It's that easy.

[Riley Wilson]

Visit turbotax.com to get started.

[Keon Miller]

Real time updates are available on the iOS mobile app.

[Garnier Representative]

Happy Earth Month. Garnier is proudly partnering with the National park foundation, the official nonprofit partner of the National Park Service. Garnier's support of the National Park Foundation Service Corps program is enabling young adults and veterans to help care for and enhance the national parks that we all love. Want to lend a hand? Explore Garnier's partnership with the National park foundation and learn how you can help support our national parks@garnier USA.com NPF the

[Riley Wilson]

AI shift is here and your advantage starts now.

[Dean Graziosi]

You're not going to be replaced by AI, but you might be replaced by someone who knows how to use it. Hey, it's Dean Graziosi. And right now, AI is creating one of the biggest opportunities I've ever seen. But most people, they're stuck on trying to figure out where to begin.

[Riley Wilson]

That's why Dean and Tony Robbins are stepping in.

[Dean Graziosi]

We'll show you the tools and the strategies people are using to work faster, buy back time, grow smarter, and stay ahead.

[Riley Wilson]

Reserve your free seat@aisummit RSVP.com AI summit RSVP.com.

[Gemma Speck]

Hello everybody, I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology foreign. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, you guys know the deal. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. As we of course break down the psychology of our 20s, there is a very famous saying, at least I think it's famous, that if it was easy, it, everybody would be doing it. And when I was in university, I used to have that printed out on like a piece of paper. I think I even wrote it out and I had it blue tacked on my wall above my desk. And when I was studying for exams, when I was working through assignments, it was kind of like my go to phrase for motivation to like, embrace the hard stuff, to appreciate that hard things bring about the best rewards, that kind of gist. However, as I have gotten older, and I was thinking about that quote the other day, and this is what has inspired that episod as I've gotten older, I've sort of revised my thinking around this. You know, yes, definitely some of the best things in life do demand a lot of our effort, time, energy, attention. But does that necessarily mean that they need to be unenjoyable or difficult? Does it always have to be such, like, a mental slug? I think those words and like, concepts tend to get all melted together when we talk about doing hard things. We imagine that they have to be almost painful. I also think, you know, with that quote, there is also this underlying secondary sense that maybe you and I, we don't deserve success if we don't almost suffer for it, if we don't strive for it, for it, if it, you know, came to us easily. Today I want to talk about that. I want to talk about this idea of how we can train our brain to do hard things by offering you a different approach, a different formula or understanding, one in which hard things become easier, using some of these principles of psychology that mean that we find difficult tasks less mentally taxing, we find it less difficult to start. We appreciate the rewards more, you know, all motivation, our desire to do anything big or small, even the most mundane of tasks, it all starts in the brain, and it all starts with how we perceive how difficult the thing in front of us is and how we perceive the outcome and the rewards of Our hard effort, that is actually something that we can influence. We can influence how our brain kind of perceives all of these components and mean that the hard, difficult things that all of us have to do in our 20s, like the things that are just so frustrating and annoying that we often put off, become less of a chore. I will also say our brain does like a challenge, even when it's a bit physically mentally painful. That's something that I think sometimes we forget when we just keep taking the easy route, which I'm definitely guilty of. The New York Marathon, as I'm recording this, was, I think, a couple of weeks ago. I love the New York Marathon, and every time I watch it, I think, why does anyone want to do that? And the answer is that the feeling of doing hard things that exert us is something that we actually value as humans. That is something that actually we do need more of in our lives. It all comes down to this thing known as the effort paradox. The more effort we put into something, the more we value it. That's why, you know, you value the crappy mug that you made at a pottery class over the perfect mug that you got at ikea. The end of a hard project is valued more than the outcome of an easy one. And it actually does make our life feel more fulfilling. We feel proud of ourselves, and we just reap the rewards. So today, let us break down exactly how we can use the principles of behavioral psychology, mainly, but also neuroscience, to do the hard things to start the hard routines. Especially in our 20s, when we can reap a lot of lifelong rewards from getting into the habit, from biting the bullet. So, without further ado, let's break down the psychology of how you and I can train our brains to do just that. The journey to completing or starting anything hard all actually has the exact same start line. And the start line is going from doing nothing to doing something. And I think a lot of us know that that transition, that jump from doing nothing to something is the hardest. And it stops a lot of us from ever really beginning, even if we really, really want to see where something's going to take us. That is why my first, biggest tip for how we can train our brain to do hard things is the five minute rule. You know, after you begin, the first five minutes of anything is going to be the hardest because you have to dig deep and find the motivation to just begin and to deal with that tension from going from doing nothing to doing something. And a big part of why that is so daunting is that it Feels like when we begin a new task or we begin a new routine, or we're like, okay, I'm committed to going to the gym every single morning. Or I'm committed to, in this moment right now, finishing my assignment, and I need to work on it in this moment right now. Absolutely have to do it. Even though I don't want to do it, it often is like, okay, by telling myself that I need to do that, I now am committing to a lot more than just a couple of minutes. I'm committed to a whole process, a whole period of time where I have to be focused on this task. And it's that huge mountain. And the idea of climbing that moun mountain knowing it's going to take a while, that means that we put things off because of the time burden. Instead, we want to overcome our brain's natural tendency to want to avoid discomfort that comes with the beginning of the task by saying, I will just do this for five minutes. It's not actually a trick. You are only going to do the thing for five minutes. Unless after you have, you know, lasted that period of time, you feel better about the thing. You feel better about doing it. If you're five minutes into your run and you're like, okay, I've done five minutes. I can stop. I am allowed to stop because I've done better than doing nothing. But, you know, maybe I'll just do another minute. Maybe I'll do another minute after that. You see that you have overcome the first mental barrier. You've overcome that first point of tension. This is just such a simple, accessible cognitive behavioral strategy. And the reason that it works so much is also because it essentially tricks us into not being able to procrastinate. Now, one of the foundations of procrastination, a lot of people think, assume that it's laziness. It's actually not. It's perfectionism. If you are an overachiever, you are a big thinker, you are a perfectionist. The beginning of a task is always gonna be the hardest, because it's in that moment that you realize how much opportunity and space there is to fail, how much space there is to do it wrong, how much space there is to be criticized, to not live up to your expectations. That is scary, and that is what's causing you to procrastinate and causing you to put off this reality that you're so fearful of. But the five minute rule undercuts that because it looks at this perfection as part of our brain and says, actually, like, you can clock for this, because anything that I do in five minutes is not going to be perfect. So great. I know that that's amazing. I can just actually ignore my perfectionism for this moment and just give it a go. It doesn't have to be perfect. It definitely doesn't have to be done. And by the time you have gotten that momentum, suddenly your perfectionism is kind of like trying to play catch up. It's like, hey, wait, you tricked me. I thought that we were, like, not actually going to do this today. I thought that we were going to, like, give it a break. I thought that, you know, I'd stopped you. It's like, actually, no, when you start giving it a go, when you get on, like, the fast train, you start seeing that it's easier. You start seeing that actually you're doing better than you expected, perhaps. And you also start realizing that progress is just. Is just important. You've already made a dent and now you have something to work with. So the five minute rule, Anything that you know is going to be hard, just say you have to do it for five minutes. And, and like I said before, you do only have to do it for five minutes. So if you're at the end of that period of time and you're like, okay, I want to stop, that's fine, you're allowed to stop, but at least you did it. My second tip, and this one is possibly one of my favorite strategies. I use this all the time when I know I have to do something that is daunting, that is challenging, that I don't want to do. I picture the best person I know at that thing. I picture them doing it. I think about them. I think about how they hold themselves, I think about how they would go about it. It's a really powerful form of mental imagery. And when we concoct these mental images in our brain, it serves as a form of motivation. So, for example, anytime I need to do public speaking, I always think about my mom, because my mom is absolutely excellent at it. She's amazing. And I think about, like, almost stepping into her shoes, stepping into her outfit, believing that I am her. And it's that admiration, but also the fact that she has set an example that I can almost copy. That makes me feel a lot more capable. It's almost like I actually don't, you know, I don't have to do all of this myself. Someone else that I know, who I respect, who is great at this, has already done it for me. All I need to do is emulate them. All I need to do is copy them. I also, I will say do this at the gym or all the time, like, as a way to stick to the hard parts of, like, my gym workouts and my gym routine. But instead of thinking about the best person I know at the gym, which, to be honest, would probably also be my mum, which is crazy because she's just a legend. But instead of thinking about someone I really admire and copying them and thinking about what they would do, I actually also visualize this person in my mind called Jim Jammer or Elite Jim Gemma. And a leap Gemma is like this really focused, fit version of myself that I've created. And I think about what she would do, I think about how confident she would be, I think about what move she would do, what her routine would look like, how she would go about it. Would she care about those other people looking at her? No, she wouldn't. And Elite Gemma is who I step into in those moments where I'm like, I don't really want to do this, but she would. And I have to listen to what she would do here. So I need to go. So there is a great study from 2019 on this exact topic, and it's titled Mental Imagery as a Motivational Amplifier to Promote Activities. And I love this amplifier. It doesn't give you all the motivation to begin with, but it takes that tiny bit of sensation in you that wants to do something and says, you are capable, you are able to do this. So this study, it showed that when participants visualized themselves doing hard activities or hard things and then being successful or finishing the task, this was associated with higher activity completion compared to those who were just given a task and told to go about it. The other reason, and I guess the other way in which I think mental imagery is really important here, is that it is a great source of bravery and it is a great way to fake it till you make it. And I'm going to give another example here of how I used a very similar visualization technique when I was trying to get over my fear of flying. I would imagine that I was someone famous and I would really picture being this, like, famous person who caught all these planes all the time. This was like a part of my fast, luxurious life. And just like rehearsing that and thinking about that over and over again, creating that mental loop and repetition. I am this person. I'm emulating this person. It made me feel insanely powerful, insanely capable, and it was a complete game changer. So that is a way that you can use your ability, your Very amazing special human ability to create mental images in your mind. You can use that to trick yourself into feeling more capable. You've got to remember your mind is the source of all your beliefs about how able you are and how brave you are and how courageous you are. So if you feed it all of this like artificial confidence that is based on how someone else does things or how a future or an amazing version of yourself does things, it's going to eat that up and it's not going to know the difference between that and a negative or self doubting thought. So it's an incredible technique. Let's move on from this and talk about mood, talk about emotions. So if you have got something on your to do list that you have been avoiding for a while because it is hard, because it is boring, because you just simply don't want to do it, you have got to choose the right mood to start tackling that. You've got to choose the right mood to implement your five minutes. A 2016 study found that when people are upset, they are less likely to try and do hard things. Very common sense. I understand. Sometimes we do just need like a good old fashioned psychological study to prove what we already know. And the explanation behind why this is the case is also quite simple. When you're in a bad mood, all of your mental resources are at a lower point. They're all kind of plummeting, right? So you're not going to feel as motivated, you're not going to feel like you have any energy. You're also. Well, your mind is going to look at this hard task and it's going to make it feel a lot bigger and a lot more difficult, a lot more challenging as a way to convince you to rest, convince you to get yourself back to a positive mental state by not putting any more pressure on yourself as it is during those times. That is not the time when you want to start doing the hard thing. That is not the time when you want to start doing your chores. That is not the time when you want to, you know, suddenly handle your taxes after you've had like a really long day at work, you've missed your train, you're having a fight with your friend, there's not enough food in the fridge. No, because also another element of that is that you will end up resenting the activity even more when you have to do it when you're in a bad mood. And if you're trying to train yourself into a habit, but every time you go about doing the habit or practicing the behavior that is associated with it. Every time you do that, if you are in a terrible mood, guess what's going to become associated the terrible mood and the behavior. And it's going to become almost like this pattern or this link or this relationship in your brain that when you think about the task, when you think about the whatever it is thing that you need to do, your brain's gonna be like, huh. Every time we do that, we're in a bad mood. And it doesn't see like the correlation or the causation point. Sorry. It doesn't see like the chicken or the egg problem, which one came first. So it's really important to build positive associations when we are doing hard things. I'm gonna use the gym example again. I just think that it's like the easiest because it's like a behavior where you go to the same place and it's like a something that a lot of us are probably going to be focused on in the new years. If you are in a really bad mood, I'm going to tell you something that is probably counterintuitive. If you are in a really bad mood and one of your long term goals is to go to the gym more often, actually don't go to the gym during those times. Some people would argue that the endorphins are going to make you feel better, yada, yada yada. In some ways I think that is the case. But if you're going to go to the gym and just do a really crappy workout and you're not going to feel like you pushed yourself, you're not even going to get to that place of an endorphin high. Actually what you're doing before you even get there is associating the bad mood with the behavior. So when you are in the best mood, you've had a great day, you're feeling motivated, that's when you've got to almost like slide in the hard tasks. It's like when parents sneak vegetables into meatballs or into cookies. That's what you're doing here. Someone said to me when I first talked to them about this, like, that's such a waste of a good mood. Why would I do that? But actually completing a hard task when you are already in a good mood has been shown to elevate that mood even further. And there is a continuation. So you feel really good in the moment, but then you also continue to feel good in the minutes, hours, even sometimes days afterwards. Maybe in part because of relief, like, oh gosh, finally I did it. That's done. But also in part because of a sense of pride. You know, how often do we actually challenge ourselves? And seriously, when was the last time you put a lot of effort into something and it took a lot of commitment from you and there were times when you doubted yourself and you didn't really want to do it? When was the last time you did that? Because as an adult, I do think that that's not as common anym. It might be in like a workplace environment. But when it comes to your personal life, we very often, we don't tend to. Often you're just jumping all over my words there. We don't often tend to changing it up again. We don't often tend to actually push ourselves. So I think that it's really important to actually give yourself the opportunity to do that, to give yourself the confidence booster, to give yourself that further amplifier to your mood. Alrighty. We're going to take a short little break because obviously I need to have a drink of water since I am just tumbling all over my words here. But when we return, we're going to talk about how you can fall in love with the process and the different kinds of extrinsic, intrinsic and integrated motivation that you can use to do hard things. Stay with us. We'll be right back. The host of the Psychology of your twenties have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks you do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That is exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, a board certified psychiatrist and health educator, this show takes you behind the counter to answer the questions you'd wished you'd asked, like what medications might not mix well, what vaccines should you consider before a big trip. And even those questions you're a little bit too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you real trustworthy advice from the experts you see the most. Your neighborhood CVS pharmacist. No white coats, no lectures, just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I have been spending more and more time than ever in front of my laptop, my phone screens in general, and I've definitely noticed some impacts to my eyes, but also my skin. I think it's almost impossible these days to avoid blue light, but you can protect yourself from its effects. Nature's sunshine, marine glow is the only collagen product clinically proven to protect against blue light whilst supporting both skin and eye health. And it's made from the most natural and potent ingredients Earth has to offer. As I've been taking blue light absorption more seriously, Marine Glow offers something from nature that actually works in the form of a simple, effective drink. Tropical flavor, might I add, rather than some 10 step skincare routine, it shields skin from blue light damage caused by screens, it promotes hydrated radiant skin, and most importantly for me has clinically studied ingredients that protect eye health. Protect your eyes and your skin against harmful blue light effects with Marine Glow. Get 20 off your first order and free shipping by using checkout code [e-mail] that is code [e-mail] this is Riley

[Riley Wilson]

Wilson and Keon Miller from okay, Storytime.

[Keon Miller]

Okay, honest question. Are you someone that does your taxes the minute you can, or someone who waits until the last possible second?

[Riley Wilson]

Wow. Calling me out already. But yes, last possible second. Every year.

[Keon Miller]

Same. Which is why I'm very into anything that makes tax season easier.

[Riley Wilson]

Enter Intuit TurboTax with TurboTax Expert full

[Keon Miller]

service, you get matched with a real tax expert who does your taxes for you, start to finish.

[Riley Wilson]

And you won't be left wondering what's going on because you get real time updates throughout the process, so you're always in the loop.

[Keon Miller]

All you do is upload your documents to the app, then go live your

[Riley Wilson]

life like you can be, listening to this podcast, grabbing coffee or pretending you're being productive.

[Keon Miller]

Meanwhile, a dedicated TurboTax expert is checking every deduction and credit to help get you the best possible outcome.

[Riley Wilson]

And if a question comes up, you get unlimited expert help, even nights and weekends during tax season at no extra cost.

[Keon Miller]

So instead of overthinking it, let a

[Riley Wilson]

TurboTax expert handle it for you.

[Keon Miller]

Visit TurboTax.com to get started.

[Riley Wilson]

Real time updates are available on the iOS mobile app Happy Earth Month.

[Garnier Representative]

Garnier is proudly partnering with the National park foundation, the official nonprofit partner of the National Park Service. Garnier's support of the National Park Foundation Service Corps program is enabling young adults and veterans to help care for and enhance the national parks that we all love. The National park foundation and Garnier are proud to support these individuals as they explore future careers, gain practical field skills, develop confidence as leaders, and help address priority projects across our national parks. Together, Garnier and the National park foundation are committed to a shared vision of preserving and protecting our most treasured places for future generations. Want to Lend a hand, explore Garnier's partnership with the National park foundation, and learn how you can help support our national parks@garnier USA.com NPF this is the

[Gemma Speck]

moment everyone in business has been waiting for. AI is rewriting the rules. And if you're not ahead, you're already behind.

[Dean Graziosi]

Here's the reality. AI is moving fast. Really fast. Hey, it's Dean Graziosi. And a lot of people think they have years to figure AI out. The truth is, you might only have months, maybe less. I've never seen technology move this quick before this. Right now, AI is helping people save hours every week, automate work that slows them down, and move faster than ever. But here's the challenge. Most people feel overwhelmed trying to figure out what makes sense for them.

[Gemma Speck]

The two biggest names in personal growth are stepping in right now to cut through the noise.

[Dean Graziosi]

That's exactly why Tony Robbins and I are hosting a free virtual AI Advantage Summit on April 23rd through the 25th. We're bringing together people who are actually using AI in the real world to show you what works. No complexity, complexity, no overwhelm, just a clear path to start using AI in your business, your career and your life. So join us April 23rd, the 24th, the 25th. Reserve your free seat at aisummitrsvp.com that's aisummitrsvp.Com There is a psychological theory that

[Gemma Speck]

when we don't just fall in love with the result, but we fall in love with the process, we actually perform better and we get further. And this theory is known as learned industriousness. Here's the thing about doing everything for, like, the big golden finish line, right? Anything hard, you are just thinking about what it's going to be like when it's done, when it's over, when you have the reward, it actually takes a while to get there. And along that path, along that route, there's probably not going to be a lot of, you know, encouragement to spur you on. People might not believe in you. The thing that you're doing might just be very mundane. No one's going to be celebrating you shouting like, yay, you've got this. Maybe there's not, like, any reward that you can even provide yourself during that time. So if you are doing it all for the final outcome, you are going to unfortunately probably lose steam. So what this theory says is that individuals who are reinforced for exerting high effort on a task, they don't just fall in love with the outcome. They actually, in some ways, get Hooked or get addicted purely to the sensation of performing highly, purely to the sensation of exerting themself. So we flip the whole narrative away from the physical, tangible outcome and towards a love for, like, the everyday hard actions that get us there. So how do we do that? Well, a few ways. Firstly is by really romanticizing the process, really falling in love and getting quite sentimental about what it feels like to perform a task day in, day out, what it feels like to be working towards your goals. Like, what a privilege that is, how romantic it is. What's that story going to look like? What's that gonna feel like? I did this a lot when I was writing my book and I was staying up late and I felt very stressed. But instead of being like, oh, my God, this just sucks, and I'm just so tired, I would, like, imagine that I was Ernest Hemingway or, like, a famous author working into the night in Paris on my book with a glass of wine. And I was, like this tortured author, poet type. And I created this whole image that made me really feel like it was, like, fun. It was fun to not so much suffer, but it was fun to strive. It was fun to work hard. There was, like, this glamour associated with it. There was this romanticism that made it special and fun. And, like, I have actually, like, very fond memories of those times. You know, even when it was really, really late, it felt nice knowing that I could push myself. Another way of doing this is by really noticing the signs of progress and letting them serve as the re to kind of further fuel your fire. So the feeling of sore muscles, the feeling of being really mentally tired at the end of the day, but, like, super fulfilled and super satisfied and like, falling. Falling asleep and just feeling really great about yourself. The feeling of seeing, I don't know, your art get better, seeing your writing get better, seeing your grades get better, that is a way of bringing about learned industriousness. It's why I really. One of the things I really recommend and that I love when people do this is when they set up Instagram pages for, like, their projects, like their marathons or an art project, or they're like, when they're learning a language or when they're renovating their house, like setting up a progress page or a project page, you can really see how things get better and improve and get bigger and larger and dreams come true. My God, I sound so cliche, but you really can see that day in and day out, it gets better every single day. Finally, the best way to really promote learned industriousness and the way that really aligns best with the theory is to just simply reinforce your effort through physical reward. So what this really relies on is something known as the hedonic principle. As humans, as creatures, as people with brains, we are wired towards things that make us feel good, and we are wired to avoid things that make us feel uncomfortable. Super simple principle, right? But an easy way to make an uncomfortable thing feel good is by maximizing the pleasure and the reward we get from it. So the more candy, I don't know, like, the more candy you offer to a child, the more excited they're going to be to go to the dentist. Even if they hate the dentist, the more treats you give a puppy, like, the more obedient they become. Allegedly, that's always backfired and made my puppies and dogs super fat, but you know what I mean. You can also do this for yourself by providing, like, physical rewards, artificial rewards that you give yourself in lieu of the bigger reward. One way we see people do this is by creating a schedule for positive reinforcement. That's an incredible behavioral change strategy. So people do this for savings goals a lot. I see this a lot on, like, TikTok and Instagram, and I love seeing these. Every, like $100, $200, 1000 dol, they save $20, $50, whatever it is goes into buying something that they really, really want so that there is that reinforcement that's going along with the hard work. We all kind of do want a special little thing every now and again. We want a break every now and again. We want a sweet treat every now and again. Factor that into how you are going about your goals, whatever it is, especially if it's a goal that is really based on a deficit of something. So having less saving money, having less sweet treats, having less downtime because you're working really, really hard, you can use that as a form of motivation to make you want to work harder so that you finally get the reward. We see, like studies on this with rats all the time. You know, the more that they are reinforced in a structured way. So, you know, they finish a task, they get a treat, they finish the next task that's a little bit harder, they get a treat. The more that there is that structured reward, they end up performing better, they're more efficient, they tire less easily. And let's just say this, that it's not like a factor to do with energy. Like, the reward is sometimes, like, they get to see their friend, or the reward is like a pat. Like, it's not Always food based, but they actually keep going for longer. The reason this is the case, and scientifically, neurologically the reason this is the case, all comes down to dopamine. I think we all know, like dopamine is the happy chemical. Dopamine is also the motivational chemical. It is the chemical that gets you to do things. So if you want to increase the dopamine that you are accessing when doing hard things, you've got to provide some form of catalyst for the release of that, some form of trigger, some form of reward. It will make you happier, but it will also make you more motivated. There you go. The more you know. So when we do this, it's actually what creates intrinsic motivation. This is the first form of motivation we're going to be talking about. Intrinsic motivation is when you do things just because you love them and just because you find them enjoyable. So you don't have to force yourself to do things you love. Right? Like I wouldn't have to force you to go to the beach or I wouldn't have to force you to like have a wine with your friends or force you to read your favorite book because you just like doing it. And one way that we can make it so that we enjoy doing something, which is the highest form of motivation for actually doing it, is by associating positive experiences and reward with performance, determination, commitment, with, you know, doing the thing, with being persistent. Now I know what you're probably thinking. How do I fall in love with. With doing something that is just actually so frustrating and annoying and something that I really don't want to do? Like, how do I enjoy my job that involves firing people? How do I fall in love with the process there? Or how do I fall in love with my painful IVF treatment, you know, that just sucks. Or like, how do I become intrinsically motivated to enjoy cleaning my toilet? It. There's just some things where this isn't possible. Like we can't use this hedonic or pleasure principle. So the next best thing that you can aim for is integrated motivation. So this occurs when a behavior is performed to gain both an external reward, but it also aligns with your sense of identity, your sense of your internal sense of value and interests and who you are as a person. We can make our motivation to complete a task attached to our identity. And it's super, super powerful. You know, I clean the toilet because I'm someone who is conscientious and I'm someone who cares about cleanliness and I care about having a nice environment and because I am someone who cares about the details. Even though I don't enjoy this, I'm gonna do it because it reinforces something that I find important about my identity. I go through IVF treatment even when it's painful, even when it's hard, because I want to be a parent. That is something I have always felt is a deep part of my life purpose. So I will endure the hard part of this journey because the outcome is something that is significant for my identity. The second best way that you can do hard things is to get super clear on the why and make a really, really big picture, like, give it a meaning as big as life itself. I study because I believe in creating a better life for myself. And I am someone who is a hard worker. So this behavior, although it is hard, is something that reinforces what I believe about myself. It reinforces my self concept, it reinforces my confidence. This is who I am. So who would I be if I didn't do this behavior? Who would I be if I didn't do these hard things? This is just so, so powerful for taking something that is just, just, you know, a random thing on your to do list, or maybe not taking something that you have, you know, mixed feelings towards. It's uncomfortable, it's difficult, and it becomes this thing, this gateway to being a more true, authentic version of yourself. And of course you are going to want to do that hard thing over the hard thing that is just bothersome over the hard thing that you have no meaning attached to. Finally, you know, if that doesn't work, if the intrinsic motivation doesn't work and the like integrated motivation systems don't work, you can always rely on extrinsic motivation. And that is basically doing things publicly, doing things in a public setting in front of others, promising others that you're going to do it as a way to make you feel like you're accountable, make you feel like there are eyes on you. This is all rooted in social psychology. When we think that people are watching, we tend to behave better. We tend to put on our best behavior. You can use those same principles to force yourself to do hard things. One of my friends does this in an excellent way. She studies in very public places because it, you know, makes her feel almost embarrassed to go on her phone. Like the acknowledgement that someone could be watching her and someone might be like, oh God, she's going on her phone. Like, that's not good. I thought she was studying. Yes, sometimes it might not be the best for certain goals or certain behaviors, but in terms of things where you're like, I just need to get this done and I need someone who, you know, a stranger doesn't even know me. I just need their presence to make me feel obligated to do this. Incredibly powerful. That was my final tip for the day. We talked about intrinsic, integrated and external or extrinsic motivation. Intrinsic is the best, actually finding a way to enjoy or fall in love with the process. Secondly, you can find a way to make the activity a part or a reinforcer of an important part of your identity. And then if all, all that fails, you know, the floodgates roll open. You can rely on the judgment of others. Less than ideal, but sometimes important. I really hope that this episode has given you some motivation. You know, we've got one month left of this year. We've got so much going on. We have a lot of goals that we might want to achieve and we also might be like preparing for next. I think these strategies are really, really doable and they're not about discipline. They're not about like working yourself to the bone. They're not about burnout and exhaustion. They are small things that you can do mentally, psychologically to be more productive and less busy and to reach your goals faster by essentially like tricking how our brain works and tricking our psychology. So if you did enjoy this episode, please make sure that you have left a five star review. If you leave a review on Apple as well, I am looking at all of them at the moment. I'm like grabbing some out for a little post at the end of the year. I would really appreciate if you could leave some kind words there. Also make sure you have pre ordered the book. I know I've been kind of not on the ball with reminding you guys but yeah comes out next year and there will be a link in the podcast episode description. Even if you just want to check out the COVID that's totally fine. I just appreciate any support that you are giving me me at this like crazy amazing time in my life. Make sure you are following us on Instagram at thatpsychology podcast. And until next time, stay safe, stay kind, be gentle to yourself and we will talk very, very soon.

[CVS Pharmacy Announcer]

Give yourself something to look forward to every morning and level up your morning ritual with Nespresso. Vertuo up. Effortless coffee moments are yours at the click of a button. With a three second start, easy open lever and dedicated brew over ice button, it's even easier to brew bold iced coffees or coffees with milk. Nespresso your coffee, your way Virtuo up [e-mail] Happy Earth Month.

[Garnier Representative]

Garnier is proudly partnering with the National park foundation, the official nonprofit partner of the National Park Service. Garnier's support of the National Park Foundation Service Corps program is enabling young adults and veterans to help care for and enhance the national parks that we all love. Want to lend a hand? Explore Garnier's partnership with the National park foundation and learn how you can help support our national [e-mail] NPC the AI

[Riley Wilson]

shift is here, and your advantage starts now.

[Dean Graziosi]

You're not going to be replaced by AI, but you might be replaced by someone who knows how to use it. Hey, it's Dean Graziosi. And right now, AI is creating one of the biggest opportunities I've ever seen. But most people, they're stuck on trying to figure out where to begin.

[Riley Wilson]

That's why Dean and Tony Robbins are stepping in.

[Dean Graziosi]

We'll show you the tools and the strategies people are already using to work faster, buy back time, grow smarter, and stay ahead.

[Riley Wilson]

Reserve your free [e-mail] aisum.com@cvs it matters

[CVS Pharmacy Announcer]

that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.

[Radhi Deblookia]

This is Radhi Deblookia from A really Good Cry. Most wellness routines fail somewhere between day one motivation and where did I put that powder? That's where Groons comes in. Groons packs over 20 vitamins and minerals, greens and prebiotics into a snack pack of tiny, delicious, delicious gummies. No powders, no pills. Just a simple way to support gut health, beauty, energy, immunity, recovery and cognition. Plus, the ingredients in Groons are backed by over 35,000 research publications. It's a convenient, comprehensive formula designed for real life. Get up to 52% off with code CRY@GROONSCO. That's Code CRY.

[Gemma Speck]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.