405. The psychology of betrayal

Summary

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The Psychology of Your 20s – Ep. 405: The Psychology of Betrayal

Host: Jemma Sbeg
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and science-driven episode, Jemma Sbeg explores the experience of betrayal—why it hurts so profoundly, how it impacts our sense of self and relationships, the neurological and psychological underpinnings of betrayal trauma, and, crucially, the path to healing. The discussion navigates betrayal in its many forms, from interpersonal to institutional, and provides validation, insight, and actionable frameworks for understanding and moving beyond betrayal’s pain.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Betrayal and Its Breadth

[01:42]

• Betrayal is not simply heartbreak or disappointment; "Betrayal is...the moment someone you trusted proves themselves capable of hurting you in a manner...you never imagined."
• Jemma highlights the vast forms of betrayal: romantic infidelity, friendship breaches, parental neglect or favoritism, broken professional promises, stolen ideas, and "institutional betrayal" (e.g. workplaces, medical systems failing individuals).
• Memorable quote:

  "The most tragic thing about [betrayal] is that it never comes from an enemy." (04:13)

2. The Universality and Trauma of Betrayal

[05:45]

• The psychological pain from betrayal is validated as a genuine trauma, with Jemma referencing trauma theory and research.
• Betrayal causes a loss of emotional safety—not just with the specific person or institution, but potentially with future relationships.
• The severity of betrayal's consequences isn't what matters most; the loss of trust and safety is profound, no matter the scale or specific act.

3. The Neuroscience of Betrayal and Bodily Response

[09:00]

• The threat response: discovery of betrayal triggers the amygdala, flooding the body with adrenaline and activating fight, flight, or freeze.
• The hippocampus encodes vivid "flashbulb memories," making moments of betrayal deeply memorable and hard to forget.

  “People will talk about the moment they realized their partner...was lying to them...20 years later, in perfect detail...Because your brain is basically like, if we survive this, we better know how we did it.” (09:40)

• The prefrontal cortex (rational thinking) is initially suppressed, explaining “why didn’t I say what I wanted to say?” moments.
• Emotional betrayal activates the same neural pathways as physical pain—fMRI studies show this overlap.

4. Multiple Losses and the Scope of Betrayal Trauma

[13:00]

• Betrayal entails loss on multiple fronts: trust, relationships, identity, imagined futures, dignity, and other secondary relationships.
• Reference to betrayal trauma theory (Jennifer Freyd): betrayal inflicts wounds as deep—and sometimes deeper—than non-betrayal traumas like accidents or violence.
• Validating remark:

  “It is not dramatic to suggest that this leaves long lasting emotional wounds.” (13:33)

5. Betrayal’s Aftermath: Shattered Assumptions & Systemic Mistrust

[20:01]

• Post-betrayal, uncertainty and mistrust infect other areas of life; difficulty trusting others and oneself is common.
• Jemma cites Janoff-Bulman’s “shattered assumptions” theory: trauma disrupts core beliefs about self, others, and the world (“social contract”).

  “We kind of all like to live with the assumption that people are as kind as we are...for that contract to suddenly be revealed as incorrect jeopardizes all that we think we know about humanity.” (20:48)

6. The Turn Inward: Self-Doubt and Self-Blame

[23:30]

• Victims often irrationally ask themselves, "Did I miss red flags? Is this my fault?"
• This internal interrogation is the brain’s attempt to gain control; it’s a fruitless search for a cause.

  "You weren't stupid. You didn't know. This is just your brain trying to explore every possible solution." (24:28)

7. Betrayal Blindness as Survival

[25:00]

• Jennifer Freyd’s research: Betrayal blindness is an unconscious coping tool—sometimes the truth is unacceptable, especially for children or people stuck in dependent relationships.
• Narrative retelling or erasing betrayals is self-protection: “Sometimes enduring betrayal is about survival, and you cannot blame yourself for what you did to survive.” (29:10)

8. Why Do People Betray?

[29:18]

• Selfishness, self-interest, or the belief that their needs supersede yours.
• Insecurity: needing control, validation, or to escape feelings of rejection.
• Power dynamics and a lack of empathy—sometimes even a perverse enjoyment of control or causing harm.
• Jemma asserts: “Most of us don’t act this way. The fact that you do not understand shows how differently you are as people and shows how much this was a them problem, not a you problem.” (30:50)

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The Seven Stages of Healing from Betrayal (The Betrayal Grief Cycle)

[36:35]

1. Shock

   • Emotional anesthesia: numbness, disbelief; a protective mechanism.
   • “Our brain is like, this is so intense we cannot feel the full intensity of this.” (36:53)

2. Disbelief/Denial & First Pain

   • Trying to rationalize or undo the reality (“this was just an accident”); avoidance of emotional collapse.

3. Obsession/Rumination

   • “The hunt for more information sets in. It becomes all consuming.” (38:05)
   • Jemma warns: seeking too much detail rarely brings closure—“try not to feed the beast.”

4. Anger & Sadness

   • Fury at the betrayer and potentially at messengers or oneself; a sign of sense of self returning.
   • Memorable metaphor:

     “You took off the backpack of your shame, your mistakes...and were like, ‘oh, can you carry that now? Your turn.’” (40:00; reference to Try Guys scandal)

5. Bargaining

   • Mental attempts to rewind or minimize betrayal, often including making excuses for the betrayer or pondering scenarios where reconciliation is possible.
   • Not necessarily a sign to reconcile, but the brain’s attempt to regain comfort.

6. Mourning/Depression

   • Grieving the totality of the loss—lost person, future, security, time.
   • “It’s really tough to adjust to the beginning of a new chapter you didn’t even want. You didn’t want this chapter. But now you have to do your best with what you were given.” (44:50)

7. Acceptance and Recovery

   • Marked by a shift: when the future feels as hopeful as the past once did.
   • Objective, neutral view of the betrayer and oneself; letting go of blame.
   • Critical step: finding a personal narrative that gives meaning to the experience, as per grief researcher David Kessler.

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Towards Recovery & Finding Meaning

[48:20]

• Any story that makes sense of what happened can be healing—‘everything happens for a reason,’ ‘rejection is redirection,’ or seeing the ordeal as proof of one’s capacity for love.
• Jemma urges: “Even though it was done to you, it wasn’t about you… The fact that they betrayed you is just as much a part of their story as it is of yours. There will always be a part of them that knows; there will always be a part of them that did that, that had the capacity to do that.” (50:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On betrayal’s origin:

  "It never comes from an enemy." (04:13)

• On the neurological aftermath:

  "Your brain is basically like, if we survive this, we better know how we did it..." (09:53)

• On shattered trust:

  "No matter how large the consequence is, it doesn't matter because the damage is done." (06:45)

• On coping with the pain:

  "Obsessional thoughts are normal. Try not to feed the beast." (38:13)

• On making sense of loss:

  "The way you know you are healing from betrayal is when the future starts to feel as exciting and good as you thought the past was." (47:56)

• On responsibility:

  "Even though it was done to you, it wasn’t about you." (50:20)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:42] – Introduction to betrayal and its varied forms
• [05:45] – The trauma and biological response to betrayal
• [13:00] – Betrayal trauma theory and breadth of loss
• [20:01] – The impact on future relationships (shattered assumptions)
• [25:00] – Betrayal blindness and why we don’t see betrayal sooner
• [29:18] – Why people betray: motives and character analysis
• [36:35] – The seven stages of healing (Betrayal Grief Cycle)
• [47:56] – Acceptance, recovery, and reconstructing meaning
• [50:20] – Reassurance on self-blame and the nature of healing

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Tone & Takeaways

Jemma’s tone is empathetic, validating, and scientifically grounded. She interweaves references, personal observations, and actionable advice, aiming to de-stigmatize the pain of betrayal and empower listeners to understand, process, and move through it.

Closing wisdom:
Healing from betrayal is not linear, and the pain—though real and life-altering—can lead to growth, resilience, and new meaning. If you’re struggling through betrayal, Jemma encourages self-compassion, patience, and hope:

“For every terrible person or terrible institution or terrible situation out there, there is something equally as gorgeous and wonderful. And I think that you are 100% deserving of it. And it is on its way to you.” (52:00)

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For further engagement: Jemma's book, Netflix episodes, and Instagram (@thatpsychologypodcast) offer more resources and opportunities to connect with others on similar journeys.

Transcript

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[Gemma Spike]

Hello everybody. I'm Gemma Spike and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. Today we are talking about one of the most debilitating and painful experiences I think a person can go through. Betrayal. Not just heartbreak, not just disappointment, not just a fight, but the moment someone you trusted proves themselves capable of hurting you in a manner in a way that you never imagined. The moment really that somebody takes everything that you have given them. Time, kindness, energy, love, trust. And they say this means nothing to me. I'm gonna go and do what I want anyways. It is a pain like no other because betrayal doesn't just change how you relate and how you see that person. It changes how you see everyone. It changes how you approach all future relationships, platonic, familial, romantic or otherwise. And it changes how you see yourself. There is a science, a psychology to this pain that really helps keep capture how earth shattering, how earth shattering moments like this can be and how they influence our psychology and who we go forward as, as people. So today we're going to lay it all out there. From the response of your nervous system to betrayal, trauma theory, betrayal, blindness, the role of shattered assumptions, but then also the seven stages of healing from betrayal and the silver lining, the, the optimism that we're going to end with that betrayal is something you can recover from. So we have a lot to cover today. If you have been through this, if you are struggling with the recent betrayal, I hope this episode helps you even in the tiniest of ways. Without further ado, let's get into it. When you truly start to think about betrayal and when you start to look for betrayal, you really do begin to realize just how many forms it comes in. I think our mind often goes to the typical things, like at least my mind when I think of betrayal, I think of cheating, I think of infidelity, I think of a friend lying to you, a friend sharing a secret. There are so many other forms of betrayal that we don't talk about. We don't talk about the promises that a boss makes that they're never going to fulfill. We don't talk about a parent dismissing what you went through with them or in your childhood, or favoritism for one child over the other. We don't talk about somebody taking your idea and exploiting it, somebody making promises and never coming through for you. These are all acts of betrayal. Finally, I think we don't talk about institutional betrayal enough. And betrayal that can emerge on a macro level from a school, from a workplace, from a medical organization, from the police force. A lot of times the news will spotlight these things and, and we don't often consider the people that are behind. There are still relationships there that betrayal has occurred within. And just because it's between somebody and an institution doesn't mean that it's not an interpersonal social hurt. There is this huge case in Australia at the moment of I think it's over 100 women, they had endometriosis and they went to this one doctor to get surgery and he would basically perform very severe, very aggressive, very unnecessary incisions and surgeries these women didn't need. He'd often make their lives worse and he would cover it up. His staff, the hospital he worked at, covered it up, right? How awful is that? And it's awful as it is awful in all cases of betrayal because of trust, because trust was there to begin with. The best quote I've heard about betrayal is the most tragic thing about it, is that it never comes from an enemy. You know, these women trusted this man because he was a doctor, because he seemed to listen to them, because he said he'd take care of them. In all cases of betrayal, this is the underlying thing. You don't think this person is capable of doing this to you either because they claim to care about you, they claim to love you, they were meant to protect you, they were an authority figure, they were a parent. And the nature of that relationship, like, allowed you to let your guard down. And that is what they saw as an opportunity to then let you down. Someone thought in the all instances of betrayal, your basic needs are less important than my wants. You know, their desire to feel significant, to get what they want, to have people like them to be entertained, any number of things, means more to them than your basic humanity and the respect that you deserve. This points to a very critical thing about betrayal that I just have to mention. Like, as close to the beginning of this episode as possible, the severity of the outcome of the betrayal does not matter. No matter how large the consequence is, it doesn't matter because the damage is done. Like, again, the consequences of betrayal don't need to be this big and dramatic thing for a betrayal to be harmful. You know, you might tell somebody a secret that doesn't really have any earth shattering consequences, but, but it's still extremely hurtful at the same time to have it revealed. And for that trust to be broken, everything from moments like that to massive things all rest on the same thing. There is a loss of emotional safety that is almost impossible to come back from. And not just with them, but with the people who remind you of them later on and the relationships that have a similar energy to them later on. I think that's the reason we see betrayal depicted in so many, like great works of art, like literature and movies and poems and plays and tv. One of my favorite books, literally the Secret History, is essentially just a psychological deep dive into betrayal. And the reason we see it so often is because we are drawn to depictions like this the same way that we are drawn to horror movies. You know, betrayal is one of those things that scares us but also fascinates us the most because of how, how much it is perceived as such a threat emotionally and Psychologically, it terrifies us. So let's examine this a little bit further. If you are currently reeling from somebody in your life doing something absolutely terrible to you, why does it hurt so much? What I wish more people knew is that being betrayed does and can leave long term psychological wounds that have been shown that have been examined in study after study. And they don't just manifest in your emotional life, they manifest physically as well. So to understand that, we have to look at what happens, I guess biologically, but also neurologically when you experience betrayal. Like what is happening to the network in your brain? First things first. When you experience a betrayal, like your brain's threat system activates like crazy. The discovery of betrayal is literally seen as like a threat to your safety, a threat to your survival. It's going to cost you socially, financially, in terms of safety. That triggers the amygdala. The amygdala is just gonna flood your body with adrenaline and it's just gonna try and get us to realize through whatever means possible, like something is going wrong. Often that means pushing you into, like, fight, flight, or freeze. Essentially, your body is just like, this is painful, this is a threat. How are we going to live through this? That is why, like, when people first learn about betrayal, they'll often talk about how they just felt this terrible rush. They felt shaky, numb, they felt panicked, they felt dizzy. That is your body being hit by a biological truck that is meant to protect you. Our hippocampus, you guys might know, this part of the brain, it's responsible for memory and learning. This part of our brain also goes into overdrive. Your hippocampus is basically responsible for deciding what is important for me to remember and what doesn't really matter. The thing is, the more emotionally intense a situation or a learning experience is, the deeper that our brain encodes it. This can lead to what we know in psychology as flashbulb memories. These are like vivid, intrusive recollections that feel almost stuck in time. People will talk about the moment they realize their partner of many years was lying to them, or the moment a parent betrayed them or somebody at work betrayed them 20 years later, in perfect detail. You know, they could tell you what they were wearing, they could tell you what song was playing in the background, what cologne. They could smell what the carpet felt like beneath them. Because your brain is basically like, if we survive this, we better know how we did it, because it's going to be a miracle if we did. And we better be able to remember every moment that led to our Survival in case there is a next time. This is obviously a real problem for the healing stage. It's honestly so annoying. Because memories like this survive and stand the test of time, and that's why they continue to be difficult to recover from. Third thing that's happening in your brain, your prefrontal cortex is suppressed. Your rational thinking disappears because you are still in that shocked survival state. I'm sorry, I keep using the cheating example. I feel like it's just the easiest, easiest one. But say you found out that, like, your partner has cheated on you. You might later be like, oh my God, why did I not say what I wanted to say? Like, why did I react that way? Why wasn't I angry? Why didn't I say something? Why didn't I scream at them? Your brain didn't think to do it. The rational part of your brain that prioritized closure of that catharsis was just like, prioritizing protection, not analysis. After this fades, this first wave, after that fades, the first, like, true shock of the explosion hits you. This is when you really start to regain some, like, cognitive clarity. This is when you start talking to witnesses or people around you who are like, hey, no, that was fucked. Like, that. That shouldn't happen. That person was not nice to you. The pain centers of our brain now light up. You know, research has shown that emotional betrayal activates the same neural pathways as physical pain. There was a series of experiments done in 2009 showing that even when participants imagined unacceptable, you know, non consensual terrible acts, their brains, even though it was an imagined thing, still experienced this as a, as a real threat. And it still lit up the same pain regions as when you are punched in the gut or when you break a limb. So this is when you really start to feel it. This is when you really also might start to notice excessive rumination and obsessive thoughts. Essentially, like now, now, like the, the data, now the information of the actors has caught up to you, and your brain is going to start really, like, trying to review and figure out what happened. Essentially just to restore, like, the broken narrative of our worldview, to try and find, like, the, the explanation, the puzzle piece for, like, why did somebody do this? Like, you want the world to make sense again. You want a logical reason as to why somebody acted this way towards you. This emotional looping of, like, searching, trying to find an answer. It is a form of coping. And what's ironic about this is our brain is trying to protect us. Our brain is trying to conclude the story, find some Closure. But that rumination often makes it worse because it starts encoding that memory even deeper and deeper and deeper. In short, I think this whole explanation, this neurological, biological explanation shows us that betrayal is a form of trauma. Betrayal is a profound loss. And it's not just one loss. That's the thing. You are losing so many things. You experience the loss of trust firstly, but then you also probably experience the loss of this relationship. You don't want to be with them anymore or be around them anymore. You then experience the loss of the future that you imagined with that person or with those people or your plans, all those opportunities. You then lose dignity. You then lose other relationships that were tied to that person. You then lose a loss of future safety. Like it is how many? That's at least seven, right? It's not just that you lost the trust. Such an expansive experience of loss. Again, that is why this is trauma. That is why it is not dramatic to suggest that like this leaves long lasting emotional wounds. There is this whole theory actually called betrayal trauma theory that shows betrayal can cause even more emotional scarring than non betrayal trauma. I don't always like to compare. I think it's like apples and oranges but like there is impact there that is, that is seen on a similar level as going to war, experience a car accident, experiencing violence. Essentially all of this is just to validate, right? Going through this, even if somebody wasn't violent against you, even if somebody you know didn't do something unimaginable or didn't do something that like would make the newspapers like, it still leaves lasting emotional wounds and it still really does kind of change who you are as a person. And that's exactly what we're going to discuss as well as, as I said, how to heal from this betrayal after the short break. So stay with us.

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The real long lasting pain of betrayal is that the other person gets to move on. They get to move on and you are the one that's left with a fundamental sense of uncertainty moving forward with your life. This uncertainty continues to like pop its nasty head up again and again in so many other situations, in so many other relationships where it does not deserve to be. In fact, There was a 2024 study that systematically investigated this with over 140 participants who had experienced partner betrayal trauma. And the study found that in nearly every single case, individuals had lower self esteem, they had an increased sense of future relationship anxiety, an increased sense of hypervigilance, and they almost, I think it was all of them found it harder to imagine ever trusting anybody ever again. I think the reason why this is, is because almost all at once when somebody betrays us, we are forced to shift our perspective on what people are capable of. It's not to say we were ignorant before, not at all. But we kind of all like to live with the assumption that people are as kind as we are, as are as empathetic as we are. And that if somebody loves somebody else or somebody cares for somebody else or makes a promise, they will not break that promise, they will not hurt them. That is like the social contract that we need for society and for relationships to thrive and to continue. And so for that contract to suddenly be revealed as incorrect jeopardizes like all that we think we know about humanity and how we think humans operate. The social psychologist Ronnie Janoff Bullman, I think the name was, she calls this exact experience the Shattered Assumption experience. It is a phenomena where something traumatic occurs and you cannot readily assimilate that into the previous worldview that you held. And that creates a lot of psychological and emotional chaos and confusion. Essentially the shattered assumptions theory is that in that exact moment when we realize when the curtain is lifted, our whole narrative about other people and their behavior is like disturbed in instance, and the reaction this creates in us Also has a name. It's called systemic mistrust. And it also creates systemic vigilance or hypervigilance. Basically, it creates this reaction where now we question everything, even things that don't need to be questioned. We assume the worst in everybody. Like, we cannot help it. We don't ever want to feel this way again. We don't ever want to be hurt again. And that makes relationships in the future really, really hard. Another big thing is that we don't just find it hard to trust others because of these shadowed assumptions. We find it hard to trust ourselves. And I actually think this is the more insidious part. Although you may rationally know, and I will happily tell you, everybody may tell you, this is not your fault. Nobody asked to be betrayed. Nobody. You don't. It's just not your fault. No matter how much people say, like, this came out of nowhere. We had no idea there was no signs. Because your brain is trying to find all possible ways to avoid this from happening again. Eventually it's going to turn that skepticism towards you and it's going to turn it into. It's like it's looking for an answer. Eventually it's going to think, am I the reason? Did I do something to deserve this? Is my intuition just all wrong? Do I just not know how to read people? Am I just stupid? Like, eventually your brain, it's normal, it's gonna think that none of that is true. Trust me, you weren't stupid. You didn't know. Really, it's. It's just not true. This is just your brain trying to explore every possible solution. I get this question sometimes, like, do manipulators know what they're doing? And the answer is yes, they do. And even when they don't think they are being intentional about what they are doing, they are willingly and actively pushing down feelings of discomfort and guilt that any normal person would be able to read. Understand that they are hurting somebody and if they had a slice of empathy in them, turn away from right, even that naivety, even that avoidance, even that ignorance that they may claim they have, like that is still a sign that they, that they are a manipulative person and that they had intention because at some point they ignored that feeling, the feeling that told them they were doing something wrong. There is, I think that is just such clear evidence that this is not, was not, cannot be your fault. This is just sometimes how people operate with. They're just callous and they're cruel and there are people out there that are like that. I want to Talk about this other strange psychological phenomena that often happens after betrayal. It's called betrayal blindness. Jennifer Fraid. She's a professor of psychology at the University of Oregon. And she's actually the founder and the CEO, president, I guess, of the center of Institutional Courage, basically talking about betrayal trauma. And she's done more extensive work on the impact of betrayal on the mind than probably any other human has, especially institutional betrayal, actually, and interpersonal betrayal. And through her research, she found that sometimes our mind protects us from seeing or processing betrayal early on in a relationship or early on in our lives. Because to do so would be so disruptive that our mind almost willingly ignores it for us, which is why we then get that sense of, like, shouldn't I have known? You literally couldn't have. Your brain was blocking you from knowing. An example of this might be with the parent abusing a child, right? This leaves the child in a terrible situation. They cannot speak up. They also cannot pull away because they have to engage in this relationship to have their basic needs met. And somebody might not listen to them, and it will make it worse. This is why children or people sometimes experience betrayal blindness. They just don't even recognize that that was betrayal. Because to do so would mean they would have to leave or no longer have that bond. You know, it's different to when you're an adult, or it's different to when you have a bit more control and you can confront somebody. You can do something, hopefully. And like, especially in these situations, if you're a grown child versus a young child, you could confront a partner who cheated on you. You could leave the relationship. In some cases, like, the problem arises with betrayal blindness when you don't have power. You're dependent on them emotionally, financially, physically. Our response of. Of withdrawal, like, is the only one that we have. Like, the only way that we can get through this is to be like, this is not happening. This is not occurring because I need my needs to be met. And acknowledging betrayal would mean that I would have to. I would have to leave. And that would be deeply dangerous for me. This one actually show up at work too. We might, like, feel really neglected and, like, betrayed by a boss. But because we rely on that job for financial security, like, we don't want to rock the boat again. Betrayal blindness as a means of self preservation, our brains literally may erase the experience entirely. People have also been observed retelling the experience. And this is awful, but as if it's something they wanted, as if they were in control when actually they. They weren't. It's something that their brain is doing to make them feel the less. I hate this word, but like victimized. Sometimes enduring betrayal is about survival. And you cannot blame yourself for what you did to survive. Like, you just can't. What else were you meant to do? I want to circle back for a second to that last thing we spoke about just before that. Do manipulative people know they're manipulative? Or more specifically, like, what does it look like inside the mind of somebody who betrayed you? Like, what is, what's going on in there? This is such a common thing that comes up literally a week ago, less than a week ago, I was speaking to one of my friends about this and about a situation that they've been going through and we were having this whole discussion of like, how could somebody do this to me? How, how like. And we just kept coming back to it. And the thing is like, you may never know because your mind operates in such a different way to them. You would never do anything like that. That's why you cannot empathize. The question like, why would anybody do this? Requires empathy. It requires you to have some understanding of how that person's mind works. And in that moment it's obvious that it works so differently that it's almost impossible to gain access to. The fact that you do not understand shows how differently you are as people and shows how much this was a them problem, not a you problem. But let's actually unpack some of the common reasons. The common reasons why people betray others that have nothing to do with the person themselves. Firstly, biggest explanation for betrayal. This person is just selfish. There's a lot of self interest in the world. People often betray others to gain power, to gain attention, to gain money. They may also betray somebody to avoid negative consequences, to protect themselves from harm. In this instance, the betrayer has placed their own needs above the well being of others. They might even feel justified, like, like, you know, well, I'm not actually happy in that relationship, so like, why not? Or like that person upset me this one time so like, I get one chance to get back at them. This selfishness really stems from a sense of scarcity, like, or a sense of entitlement that their needs are better and need to be more protected than yours. Next, insecurity. People commit acts of betrayal because they have low self esteem. They might feel like they need to control or manipulate others to feel better about themselves, to avoid rejection, to. To earn a sense of validation that they so desperately need. Does this mean they deserve sympathy? That's up to you. That's. You can decide. Because I don't know. We all have insecurities. Most of us don't act this way. I don't know. We all have insecurities. And most of us don't cheat on our boyfriends. Most of us don't stab our friends in the back. The other thing is power dynamics. People. There are people who just want to assert power and they want to assert control. And this can occur in both a personal, professional relationship setting and it is a very serious, serious issue. You know, there are people who genuinely, yes. Have a lack of empathy. Yes. Are insecure. Yes. Have an inability to understand other people's feelings. And then they also kind of enjoy it. Like, they also, I've noticed this, get a kick out of cruel, controlling behavior. It's this strange thing. It's like they enjoy seeing the damage that they can do in other people's lives. It's exciting to them. These people exist. And I think the reason why they do this is that the world feels uncontrollable to them. They feel insignificant. The world feels like it's been very unkind to them. So they rectify that by messing in other people's lives. To feel like God almost. To feel like they have a say in their destiny or their fate or the fate of other people. Like, that's how they. That's how they go and do it. Like, totally, kind of totally off topic. Not totally, but in a lot of psychological interviews with, like, serial killers or murderers, this is an explanation that I've seen a lot of them give. The justification that comes out in a lot of these manifestos and a lot of these interviews is like, I, I like it. I need to be in control. A lot of these men will be like, as a child, as a kid, I felt like things just happened to me. They. That made me angry. So now it's my turn. It's my turn to make these bad things happen to other people. It's this weird universal karma. Pretty messed up. Pretty messed up. But again, shows that you are nothing like these people. It's good news. You can't understand them. It's just, I think that that lack of empathy shows that this is a personal flaw. Okay, we're going to take one more little itty bitty short break here before we detail the recovery process from betrayal trauma and where to go from here. So without further ado, stay with us.

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Researchers have developed this thing that I think is incredibly helpful in situations like this. And so good to start in this episode called the Betrayal Grief cycle. And this is how they explain, like, what you will feel at different stages of recovering from an act of betrayal. The one thing that they really emphasize, and we spoke about this in our trauma bond episode, if you listen to that one, go and listen to it after this. But betrayal doesn't eliminate grief. No matter how horrendous this person was, the good memories, they kind of still linger like a pleasant smell. And that can be really annoying at times, especially for interpersonal betrayal, because there was, you know, it's hard because there was a time when everything was going really well and when they said that they loved you and they cared about you and they were an amazing friend, they were a great parent, they were an amazing lover. Grieving, that is important. Your brain lived both experiences equally. It lived the experience of being hurt, but it also lived the experience of before that of feeling safe. And that is still resonant in your mind because of that. Healing from betrayal is so much like grief. And it does often follow the stages of grief that were first developed by Elizabeth Kubler Ross that you've probably heard of before. But researchers have added a few extra stages in for betrayal trauma over, you know, grieving a dead person. So let's unpack These together. Because even if you've heard of these stages before, they do look a little bit differently and they do even look a little bit differently from like the same cycle that's used for a breakup or used for a friendship fizzle or yeah, used for a death. So stage one is the same. I think anytime something deeply emotional happens, we react with shock. This is what you're going to have to go through first. We spoke about this earlier before, but there is horror at discovering what the betrayer has done. And we kind of just feel like numb. We are not really comprehending what happened or maybe a little bit, but not fully and not deeply. Various studies have suggested that shock, actually the reason we go through this is that it acts as like an emotional anesthetic. So basically our brain is like, this is so intense we cannot feel the full intensity of this. We can't feel this straight away. We will like, we will not survive. So let's like numb us up so we can get through this and we can, we can talk about it later. This is similar to like when people escape burning buildings with like their legs broken or like crazy things like that. The shock delays the pain, allowing you to behave in a life preserving way. And the thing is, is that this can last weeks, this can last months, sometimes it can last years. You will move out of the shock phase when your brain finally thinks like, oh, they can handle it. When they finally are like, okay, we have a little bit more coping going on with, which often sucks, right, because you kind of think that you've already lived through a little bit of it. And then suddenly when you actually are coping a little bit better, your brain's like, okay, cool, so we can give, we can give them the first dose. Now stage two is when this is really happening. So it's like the disbelief and the denial and also the first inching or tiny bit of, of pain. You start crying, panicking, start to feel hurt. There is still a sense though of like, it's going to be okay, right? Like this is just a big prank. This was just an accident. This person didn't mean that. I heard them wrong. I, I got the wrong facts. Part of you still is feeling it, but wants to preserve the story you know so well the story that people can be trusted. Stage three, that's when we get to obsession. This is the most confusing and painful stage, the rumination. The hunt for more information sets in. It becomes all consuming. This is when also your brain starts to be like, maybe it was our fault. What could we have done? To stop this from happening. This is when your brain starts to be like, friends, family, like, what did you see? What do you know? Confirm, deny anything that you might have. Like, I need to know. It's a hunt. I would honestly say, especially if you've been cheated on, don't go hunting for more information unless it's, like, absolutely necessary. Like a legal case, like, knowing too much about a betrayal might seem like it's going to make you feel better because it's going to offer closure. I think it actually just gives an already terrible situation even more detail. And that stuff can be really difficult to unsee. It can cause so much pain further on or later on, I should say. It's up to you. Like, some people do process better with more information, Especially if it's like institutional betrayal or, like a workplace betrayal. It's, like, good to have your evidence and it's good to have things documented and to be like, oh, other people know. And if there's like, a legal case, like, that's very important. But especially for, like, interpersonal betrayal at this stage, like, the obsessional thoughts are normal. Try not to feed the beast. Stage four is anger and sadness. During stage four, you will find yourself furious. Furious, like, deeply, deeply angry at the other person. I think this is a great sign. Congratulations. If you've gotten to the anger stage, congratulations. This is great because probably for the first half, you've been like, wow, this is just terrible. Everybody's sad, everybody's hurt, like, oh, like, maybe even making excuses. And now you are like, I am ready to fight. And like, that person shouldn't have done that to me. It's when you can see your sense of self returning. You might also be angry at, like, the person who told you what happened because you might see that as. That as the source of betrayal, like, shooting the messenger. If that's how you found out, you might be furious as well at this person for the transference of guilt. Right? They alleviated their conscience by. By telling you. And so they've passed the guilt on to you like a little baton. Like, now it's your turn to carry this. They finally feel relieved. Weird sidebar. If you guys remember the try guys, the YouTubers, and the guy, what was his name? Ned, Former. Who, like, publicly cheated on his wife. He, like, did this whole YouTube video with her maybe, maybe like six months ago when he was like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I'm going, yeah, did this whole YouTube video of, like, I'm gonna launch this thing about people's rock bottoms And I'm gonna interview my wife who I cheated on for the first episode. And in it, she talks about the most, like, I love that she stole the spotlight. She talks about this moment when he told her, when she could almost see relief in his eyes. Relief of, like, thank God I don't have to keep that in anymore. Thank God I can talk about this openly. And she talks about that moment of, like, you took off, like, the backpack of your shame, of your mistakes, of your bad behavior, and you were like, oh, can you carry that now? Your turn. And she had to keep it. Like, that is an amazing way of describing it. And a describing of, like, how you suddenly realize. And when you suddenly realize, oh, like, you. That is it. That was not a nice thing for you to do. And, like, you were in the wrong. Stage five. When you hit stage five, bargaining, you might find yourself really trying to. I think it's kind of like a slight reversal, right? If you can see it's a lot of. This is three steps forward, two steps back. This is another stage of, like, trying again to shove this experience into your worldview. And bargaining about, like, what if they only did it once? What if they didn't really know what they were doing? What if. What if, like, I did give them a second chance? What if, like, I'm overreacting again? This is not a sign to, like, return to them or to prematurely forgive them, that this is just how your brain is adjusting to the situation and trying to figure out the puzzle that is within you and trying to figure out the puzzle that is the situation and how to feel okay again. So it's totally normal to be bargaining before you end up in the final stage. Well, the second final stage of, like, the. The. The grieving process, which is mourning. You had anger, you had sadness, you had denial. Bargaining. Now it's just melancholy and just the deep anguish that comes with those shattered assumptions. You realize truly, like, how much you've lost. You realize you are. You're never going to get invited to those events with that person again. You're never going to have. You're never going to have the future of the wedding and the kids. You're. You're never going to get the job that you're never going to get an answer about that or never going to get your health back. The time back. Like, it's lost. You really lost out. The stage in the grief spaces is known as depression. And we can't understate, like, how profound that really means. Like, what that really means. All the adrenaline, all the investigating, all the thinking, the anger is taking a physical toll. And we will feel that you might start to get sick a lot more often. You might start to really lose interest in everything that you would normally love. You might isolate as you mourn the end of this thing, that you also feel equally like you shouldn't mourn because it ended so badly. It's really tough to adjust to the. To the beginning of a new chapter. Like, you didn't even want. You didn't want this chapter. But now you have to do your best with what you were given, because you weren't given a choice. Mourning is just, like, so hard. It's so uncomfortable. But I also think we tend to rush through it, and it's something that you cannot rush through. I think anybody who's experienced this will tell you, like, grief, sadness, heartbreak, betrayal are things that you have to move through rather than try and dodge around. And when you do, you get to stage seven, which is acceptance and recovery. I think the best way I've seen this described, how you know that you are, like, fully accepting what's happened to you, is when the future starts to feel as exciting and good and as you thought the past was basically the before and the after start to feel similar. Like, there's optimism. There's a deep sense of, like, this is just what I was dealt. I can deal with it. I. I want to feel happy. I want to be alive. I want to get through this. How am I going to make this happen? Despite all of that, it's also probably the first time where you can, like, objectively see the situation for what it is. I think in the first few stages, there's always like a. A dominant emotion trying to convince you of some reality of this betrayal. You know, that it didn't happen, that it was all terrible, that you could never love again. And this is the moment when you just have a bit more neutrality. Not feeling nothing, but knowing that you felt everything, knowing more solidly that you weren't to blame, knowing more solidly their motivations, and just being able to look at it just neutrally. Again. Psychologists talk a lot about how in this stage it's really important to find meaning, right? There is another very famous guy, David Kessler. He wrote the book you can heal your heart, which you may have read. He also wrote a lot of stuff on grieving, and he describes meaning when it comes to betrayal as how we learn to carry our grief and sadness differently, rather than eliminating it from finding a way to put all the individual heavy parts of grief and betrayal into a bag and carry it with us, maybe even put it down occasionally, maybe even forget it's there. It's basically, how do we find a story that makes this make sense? Think if I was going to give any advice to someone going through betrayal, it would be this. Whatever makes the story of this moment relevant or makes sense to you, grasp onto that. Whatever story, whether that is the story that everything happens for a reason, whether it is the story of rejection is redirection, whether it is the story of karma, whether it is the story of how this will allow you to help others in the future, the story that this is proof of your own capacity to love. Whatever it is, find the story that makes this make sense. If you can, like, find something that allows you to take those shattered assumptions and be like, here are new assumptions. And they feel just as comfortable. Finally, just remember, even though it was done to you, it wasn't about you. I cannot stress this enough. I have a friend going through this at the moment. And the thing we keep discussing is this person isn't going to magically become a different version of themselves for whoever comes next or for their next best friend, or for their next partner, or for their next employee or for their next wife, whatever. Like, they're not going to magically change. This is part of their character. And even if they do, even if they do get help and they do change, whatever they do next doesn't erase the pain they caused in the past. It doesn't suddenly erase this part of their history. Like, just because they're a great person doesn't mean that, like, they've always been that way. The fact that they betrayed you is just as much a part of their story as it is of yours. There will always be a part of them that knows there will always be a part of them that. That did that, act like that had the capacity to do that. So I want to wrap up this episode by just saying. By just saying, like, don't think that you, as a victim of this betrayal, were somehow. And I know this is going to sound. We were somehow special. It is them through and through it, like, the people who have the capacity to do this. Something in them just really, again, that quote from the beginning saw your needs, saw the respect that you were owed, and decided that's just not. Not as important as my own interests and went ahead with that. That is a completely them situation. I know a lot of this is just, like, lingo and words and, like, whatever psychobabble theories and sometimes, like, that cannot erase the pain of what you're going through. But I do hope the psycho education and the more scientific perspective on what you're experiencing can neutralize some of the shame and neutralize some of, like, the grief by showing you that, like, not this is a normal experience, but this is like there are things to this experience that every human would go through and that every human would feel pain by because they are so devastating. And you are no different. It's also something that, like, I don't know, time maybe won't heal, but does wonders for. And I think the fact that you are moving through this with grace, you are looking to learn, you are looking to understand yourself better through the actions of somebody else is really, really powerful stuff. And I think that there is a lot of healing and amazing things coming your way. I really do believe it. I really do believe that for every terrible person or terrible institution or terrible situation out there, there is like something equally as gorgeous and wonderful. And I think that you are 100% deserving of it. And it is on its way to you. So thank you again for listening. Thank you as always to our researcher Lucy Davidson for her assistance with this episode. Make sure that if you enjoyed this episode and you are listening to maybe go and check us out on Netflix. That is right, we now have episodes on Netflix, episodes just like this one. Wherever you are in the world, go and check it out. You can also follow us on Instagram at that psychology podcast if you feel called to do so. If you want to contribute to episodes like this, we often have question boxes go up. We often look for listener stories that inform episodes just like this one. So it's a great opportunity to get involved. And yeah, there's all these other links, there's all these other things that you can access. I will just leave them in the description down below. But until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.

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