← The Psychology of your 20s
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- [00:00]
Jemma Spa
This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Jemma Spa, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Have you ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast answers the questions you'd wished you'd asked, like which meds may not work well together, what what vaccines you might need before a holiday, and even some of the questions you're too embarrassed to say out loud. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts this summer. Find your next obsession on Prime Video. Steamy romance, addictive love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice like Off Campus, l, the Love Hypothesis and more Slow Burns Second Chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. They have so many bit bingeworthy series and can't miss movies perfect for when you're unwinding, reflecting or just want to avoid your responsibilities just for a little bit.
- [01:10]
Podcast Host
No judgment.
- [01:11]
Jemma Spa
Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. I feel like in every episode I talk about how exhausted and overwhelmed I am because it's true. I'm trying to balance a lot and taking care of myself often falls off the list. That is where Premier Protein shakes come in. They have 30 grams of protein, no added sugar, and tons of delicious flavors like cake batter, peaches and cream caramel. Premier Protein shakes are a healthy choice you will actually want to make. Premier Protein powers you to say yes to more. Whether it's crushing a big presentation, building an epic fort, hitting the hiking trail with friends. Find your favorite flavor@premier protein.com the future won't wait. And neither should you. That's why American Public University offers Master's programs designed for momentum. Momentum. Affordable, high quality and flexible so you can keep moving forward with career relevant programs in business, healthcare, education, it and so much more. You can gain skills you can use right away and the confidence to power your next move. American Public University made for what's next? Learn more at apu Apus Edu. The best kind of Internet is the kind you actually don't even notice because it works so efficiently and so no buffering, no cutting out, no going to start the next episode of your favorite TV show and it not loading when you've had a very long day, especially for somebody who works from home. Broadband Internet is something I rely on every single day and reliability matters. Good Internet makes all the difference. For more information, go to smartmove.us. Hello everybody, I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
- [03:18]
Podcast Host
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. Today we are talking about a very insidious part of our 20s. The pressure to be extraordinary, the pressure to be the best, to be the wunderkind, to be the star. This idea that if we don't make it big now in our 20s, we will never have what it takes. This feeling follows us around everywhere and I personally think it destroys a lot of our organic love for so many things and it destroys our ability to be truly curious and truly passionate during a time in our lives when that is like our number one asset. I cannot be the only one who feels this implicit sense that we are all in this race and we are all losing at the exact same time. We're all in the race, none of us are winning. There are like 10 or 12 people in this world, 10 or 12amazing 20 somethings who are Olympians, who are business owners, who are authors, who are experts. They're winning, but we are not. And the question always seems to be like, why can't that be me? Why didn't I make it? Why don't I have the motivation to be this extraordinary person? Does that mean that I am less than. It is so exhausting. And I think we really need to dissect where that comes from from a psychological standpoint, what it does to our ambition. I also want to talk about the role of viral fame, how that has changed our interpretation of what it means to be extraordinary, the gifted child phenomena, all of these things. But mainly the personal cost of this pressure to be extraordinary that just seemingly follows us around everywhere. And why our current version of what is extraordinary is prob. Deeply, deeply flawed and deeply, deeply wrong. So without further ado, I feel like this is the pep talk I need right now. This is an important episode for me as well. Let's get into it. What does it mean to be extraordinary in modern society right now? I think there are a few major themes that spring to mind. The biggest being fame, money, status items, being busy, being the best, accomplishing as much as possible in a very short time. It is all very visible, isn't it? And it's all very dependent on external validation. It's all very hyper competitive. The appeal of external validation and meeting those external expectations for what success looks like is very understandable. At this time in our lives, at this Stage in our 20s, in our 20s, there are so many unknowns in front of us. Like there is so much that we don't understand. It is only natural that we fixate on this very narrow vision of what extraordinary is that we know guarantees us approval because that makes us feel steady. Striving to be exceptional can provide a kind of emotional security, but also a Social Security that we don't often we don't really get from anything else. Like this is the blueprint. If we follow it well, all these people who have found the success seem happy. So we must be happy as well. We will be happy if we find that validation. Also the social validation in particular that comes with visible success from your friends and family praising you right up to viral Internet fame is very seductive. But it also limits our version of what a successful life looks like to only something that can be seen and praised. You never see people bragging about the quality of their time off, the devotion to their hobbies. You never see people bragging about how deeply they've gotten to know themselves or how much rest they get. There's no prize for being the best kind of friend or for surviving hard emotional things. We have one version of success. Either you are that, either you are fame, luxury, money, or you're not successful. That is what society says. I think this has in part been, and I know has been intensified by social media in two ways. Firstly, the rise of viral fame. That can take somebody from like seemingly ordinary to extraordinary in the span of hours and like, change your life, your status, your bank account balance over overnight. This is the first time in human history that this could be somebody's pipeline, that this could be somebody's life. And that makes extraordinary or being extraordinary feel so much more accessible, genuinely. Like fame, even like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, fame used to be like a slow burn. It used to be exclusive and it used to be reserved for people who were really dedicated to a craft or who were perhaps became like sensational stars overnight. I actually read a study the other day that interviewed like, I don't know, I think like teenagers, like thousands of teenagers who were like, and actually even younger children, like 10, 11, 12, 13 year old kids on what their dream job would be. And the majority of them said like YouTuber, online gamer or influencer. This like the viral fame makes it feel so much more in reach for so many more people to be this extraordinary person. And that ups the pressure. The second way I think social media has intensified the need to be extraordinary is that unlike our parents generation, who could probably only really compare themselves to the people that they know or mutual friends or, I don't know, people their age who, like, made it bigger and who were, like, in the paper, who were like, public figures, you and I, like, we now have the entire online world to compare ourselves to. We are flooded with opportunities to see how we measure up against our peers, literally everybody, people our own age who appear to be killing it from, like, all over the world. Like, I don't. You would not have to search very far to find somebody your age, from your part of the world who looks like you, doing things that are just insanely cool and amazing. And they are one in a million. But we see a million of them a day. We don't see, like, the normal lives, we don't see the tough bits unless they want us to see it. We don't see. We only see, like, the people who have broken through a very tricky algorithm to reach our screen or to reach, like, our public knowledge or like, our public. Yeah, the public arena. And this creates a cognitive fallacy that if these are the only people we see online, everybody else must, like it must be accessible. These people were just like us before they got here. And everybody could have this. So why don't we, in a more professional context as Well? I think LinkedIn has done that for even more traditional career paths as well. Obviously, not everybody wants to be an influencer or a YouTuber, but LinkedIn does that for finance, for consulting, for law, for accounting. There was a 2016 study that assessed a sample of 1700 university students and measured the correlation between LinkedIn usage and depression and social anxiety. And they found that participants who used LinkedIn at least once per week were much more likely to have these, like, indicators of poor mental health. And that's the problem with constantly striving to be extraordinary. At this age, extraordinary feels exceedingly normal because of how cases of extraordinary people are everywhere and rise to the surface and dominate what we see. Because it's exciting. It's exciting and alluring to see somebody make it. And this, of course, breeds a very deep, insidious form of social comparison. I should say this social comparison in itself is not a bad thing. I actually think it's a useful thing. It's completely normal to look around you and to look at others for, like, information about how, what you should be doing and how you think and how you feel and how you should behave. It provides an incredible evolutionary advantage in a highly complex and interconnected modern social world. Knowing what is the norm is often good for social standing. But there are obvious problems that come with constantly looking at other people to validate our lives and our choices, especially when what we see of them may be incorrect or probably is. The incomplete picture. I came across this article written by this woman. I cannot remember her name, but she was on the 30 under 30 list in 2018. If you don't know what the Forbes 30 under 30 list it's is, it's like basically a list of 30 people aged 30 and under who have done like really impressive things. And it's like a real thing to get on this list. And this woman, this author of this article talks about how the award doesn't account for the whole picture of people's lives. It doesn't like, it doesn't look at the facts of their achievements. It doesn't think about it doesn't weigh up who was, who was self made versus who had family support. It doesn't weigh up their failures. She points to when Forbes there was like a really famous article a couple years back about like Kylie Jenner being like the first self made billionaire woman on one of its covers. And in this article this woman talks about how like this list, that's an example of how they fetishize achievement, but they erase the role of privilege and access. Like they only spotlight the individual, not the system. Not all the stuff that went right for them, not all the luck they have or even not what, like they never talk about what went wrong or anything that isn't glamorous. I'm like, I'm totally blanking on her name. I'm going to leave a link below. It is such a good article. It's on Vox if you want to read it. And again, this woman who wrote this article was a Forbes 30 under 30 like awardee. Like she belongs to this extremely tiny group, just 30 people under 30 every year who are deemed to be extraordinary. And if she is calling out the lack of transparency with young people and the true stories of people who achieve these huge milestones and how it's not all that it seems like I think we should listen and I think we should acknowledge that the, I don't know, the idols that we have, the visions or the views or the pictures of success we have are probably not correct. I think part of the pressure to be extraordinary also comes down to hustle culture. Very obvious, Hustle culture. This idea that we should always be on, always should be Burning the midnight oil or always should be optimizing our free time is, is everywhere. Like they villainize free time. Time spent relaxing is times you should be spent. Like that should be spent working and pushing ourselves harder. And there's this whole narrative of like, pressure is privilege. I've been seeing more and more videos on TikTok and Instagram that are like, I can't complain when there's work to like when there's work to do. Like, I can't complain that my plate is full when I wanted to eat. I can't complain about the pressure that I wanted. Like that's this whole mentality of like if you're not suffering and working hard, you're not deserving. Even the things that are purely done for enjoyment these days need to be maximized. Literally. Maximizing is the trend. Like hobby maxing, looks maxing life maxing, outside maxing, flow state maxing. Like I could go on. Everything needs to be maximized. It's created this lingering sense that we have to be fantastic at all our hobbies. We, we always have to be gearing towards monetizing them. We need to strive to be extraordinarily beautiful, happy, fun, rested, successful, friendly. We have to have everything in order to like just be normal or especially I think the idea is like, in order to be satisfied. Again partly because of how visible our lives are now. Everything needs to be for an audience. Everything needs to be and you need to have the most of the things, the most of everything that you can get. Everything needs to be balanced to perfection. And I think they really like, they start us young when it comes to this pressure. Obviously I'm blaming social media. I think that this comes down to a lot more complex ideas than just that. I have to say if, if you were a gifted child or an overachiever as a teenager, this next bit of this episode is for you because the straight A student to burnt out, 20 something pipeline is so real. I think the pressure to be extraordinary in our 20s begins with the obsession with excessively smart, talented, wonderkind like type people when we were children, like the accelerator programs, the child savant, the bragging rights like our parents received, everybody wanted a gifted child and it actually ends up being a little bit of a curse. Of course, like it's only natural that our society praises and wants to celebrate intelligence and wants to celebrate, you know, being talented. But boxing a child into that identity so young and during such a formative time for their self concept does psychological damage long term because it delivers the expectation that you can never deviate from this identity as the star. For the rest of your life, you will have to continue to be the best. Like, your trajectory is set. You were, you were a gifted child. You better be a gifted adult. And if you deviate, that's because you messed up. You've squandered your potential, you didn't work hard enough. But adult life, like, isn't the same as our lives as children or even as teenagers. There's a much bigger playing field. We have so many other options open to us that weren't there before. There's a whole new set of challenges to balance. That means that when we're exposed to people or environments or situations that are challenging or where we aren't the smartest person in the room or we aren't the most talented person in the room, after being told to believe that we always would be, from a young age, it can be really, really jarring. Frustration can set in when we can't master new skills with ease. We might believe that we're not clever anymore, that we peaked in high school. We suffer from imposter syndrome. There isn't often an entire identity collapse that comes that I think afflicts every person who was praised for being smart, creative, the best as a child, who then as an adult, you know, is still smart, amazing and talented, but cannot operate at the same level that they could when they had. Didn't have bills, didn't have complex relationships, didn't have global wars to worry about. I think we may wonder where our feeling of being special will come from now. Like, now that we're out of that system, how do we set ourselves apart? And so we set ourselves unrealistically high standards to achieve something that will make us feel worthy, and then we still don't feel satisfied when we get there. The truth is, a 2025 study found that former gifted children often struggle more than non gifted children after graduation because their only coping mechanism is, is working harder. And they struggle in environments where they're. There just aren't those same clear metrics for them to achieve against and for them to feel validated by. Like, that's the truth. That's probably what a lot of you guys are going through right now. And the other thing that gets confusing, and I kind of just mentioned it, is that after high school, after university, like, the idea of linear success is revealed very quickly to be a myth. When we were in high school, when we were in college, everything is kind of this step up. Like, we achieve this and then we achieve this and then we climb this and then we get to the top. And when we graduate, we climb the career ladder. And every two years we're rewarded with a promotion and we're rewarded with a raise until we get to the top of the ladder. And then we are predictably, naturally our happiest because we have done it and we have the success story we always wanted to be. But like that progression is not true anymore, if it ever was true. Instead, we live in a very uncertain time for all of our careers, for all of our lives. Rapidly evolving technology, AI, financial crisis, a volatile job market means that our age group isn't going to have that same sense of upward mobility and progress that a lot of other generations have. There is this woman called Eliza Philby. She wrote the book Inheritocracy. And she's the one who estimated that Gen z will have five careers and work for 15 different employers in their lifetime. Whereas in the past that typically would sit around the 1 to 2 mark. When we change jobs, when we shift industries, as is necessary for us at the moment, it can make us feel like we are falling down the ladder and that we're not exceptional. Because taking a break, taking a detour, any kind of deviation is basically like we are out of the running because, you know, compared to somebody else who didn't deviate, like we are now behind and that, that is a really stressful situation to be in. Again, the pressure that puts on us, it's a deeply, it's deeply anxiety inducing and it's also incredibly unproductive and actually counterintuitive. As much as I do agree, pressure may be a privilege for some. When a certain version of success is the be all and end all of life and you are not achieving or anywhere close to achieving that success, it actually ends up making our goals feel less achievable and reduces our motivation. This is what I want to talk about next. You know, we know where the pressure to be extraordinary comes from. We know that we're kind of set up to fail in many ways. Now what does it actually do to our motivational systems and our mental health when our only version of what would make us happy or what would constitute a good life is this outdated model of like the brilliant young individual. We're going to talk about that and so much more after this short break.
- [23:33]
Jemma Spa
This summer. Find your next obsession on Prime Video. Steamy romance, addictive love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice, like Off Campus, L, the Love Hypothesis and more. Slow Burns, Second Chances Chemistry. You can feel through the screen. They have so many binge worthy series and can't miss movies. Perfect for when you're unwinding, reflecting or just want to avoid your responsibilities just for a little bit.
- [24:02]
Podcast Host
No judgment.
- [24:02]
Jemma Spa
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- [24:48]
Podcast Host
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- [24:49]
Jemma Spa
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- [26:24]
Podcast Host
I
- [26:25]
Jemma Spa
feel like in every episode I talk about how exhausted and overwhelmed I am because it's true. I'm trying to balance a lot and taking care of myself often falls off the list. That is where Premier Protein shakes come in. They have 30 grams of protein, no added sugar, and tons of delicious flavors like cake batter, peaches and cream caramel. Premier Protein shakes are a healthy choice you will actually want to make. Premier Protein powers you to say yes to more. Whether it's crushing a big presentation, building an epic fort, hitting the hiking trail with friends. Find your favorite flavor@premier protein.com the future won't wait and neither should you. That's why American Public University offers Master's programs designed for momentum, affordable, high quality and flexible so you can keep moving forward. With career relevant programs in business, healthcare, education, it and so much more. You can gain skills you can use right away and the confidence to power your next move. American Public University made for what's next? Learn more at apu. Apus. Edu
- [27:36]
Podcast Host
so the pressure to be extraordinary does a few things. The most important being it just creates a chronic sense of inadequacy. It also kills our motivation. It stops us from experimenting. It stops us from like sometimes doing anything at all. Let's break those down one by one. The problem with being extraordinary is that it never lasts. Even if you do achieve everything you want, it's a mirage. You know, once you have met the expectations that you set for yourself or somebody else set for you. Like the bar is always going to be raised because that is like the pure definition of extraordinary. Like it pushes boundaries. It's being extraordinary is about being constantly challenged and it runs off this hyper competitive narrative in society. I'm sure many of us have had this experience whereby we achieve one thing, we are so happy about it for about a minute, and then we are already looking towards the next thing and the next. This feeling has a name in psychology. It's called achievement adaptation. It's very similar to hedonic adaptation. Basically it is the tendency to overestimate how great big achievements are going to make you feel long term and to essentially become desensitized to your own efforts and accomplishments such that all good feelings lose their impact over time. So basically it's like an addiction. Like you need more and more to feel happy. You need every bar that you rise to meet will be raised and you will feel like you are not doing enough to get there. Some of the most like conventionally successful people, you know struggle with this. This inability to look around and Be like, hey, like, I'm where I always wanted to be. I'm really proud of that. I'm so proud of how far I've come. Taylor Swift is a great example. Literally the most famous person in the world. And I know if you've watched her documentary, I'm sure many of you have, but it's the one from a few years ago. I think it was called like Miss Americana. There is this scene in that documentary that I think about all of the time, like constantly. It's the scene where she's like waiting to hear about Grammy nominations and she's like, just written her album Lover. This woman has already won at that point, I think a dozen Grammys and her publicist is like, no, you didn't. You didn't win any. You didn't even get nominated actually. And you can see she's just like crushed. She's crushed. And I distinctly remember her being like, well, I just have to be better. I have to make a better album. I have to push myself more. And it doesn't look like at that time that was an enjoyable thing for her, like obviously now, and she did, she did obviously meet that new level. But being exceptional can become a bit of a curse because your worth is dependent on your ability to out perform yourself. I think when we begin to recognize this loop that nothing is ever enough, we will never be as good as a version of us that doesn't exist or a version of other people that doesn't exist. I think that actually kills our motivation in a way because we're kind of like, why bother? Like why do I, why bother trying so hard if every time I do achieve something, the goal post shift, if I'm never going to be that person? I think this logic comes into play which is like, you know, it's better not to try at all. You know, I'd rather feel unexceptional because I didn't try than unexceptional because I did. And like, that has revealed my inadequacy. This is called learned helplessness or a version of learned helplessness called self handicapping. So this term was coined in like the 60s. Self handicapping, learned helplessness, coined in the 60s by these two researchers who basically realized sometimes people get so adjusted and so used to being dissatisfied every time they do try that they just stop trying. Like they just realize that they're never going to be this extraordinary person. So they don't even try to be ordinary in a way when they were testing this theory on humans. Seligman, who was one of the researchers, he would subject participants to really loud, unpleasant noises using a lever that would not stop the sound. So basically there was a lever. They were told, I can't remember exactly, but essentially they were told that the lever would stop the sound. And they were sitting in this room and the sound was really annoying, really frustrating in the first round that people were pulling, pulling, pulling the lever. It wasn't working. In the second round, the leather was working. But by this stage, they just kind of learned to adjust to the circumstances and they'd stop believing that they could do anything to change it. So none of them pulled the leather or like a very few of them did, even though, like, if they had tried again, it would have, it would have worked and the sound would have gone away. They just learned and really leaned in lent in to this sense of helplessness that like, nothing is going to change. For me, the biggest result of this is a chronic state of apathy. When we experience prolonged exposure to not meeting our expectations, to uncomfortable situations that we feel like we can't avoid, we can't alleviate, we're never going to be what we want to be. We effectively learn to accept the situation we are in is a given. We become stuck. We become convinced that because we can't be the most exceptional, we are doomed to, to mean nothing at all. It is a very black and white form of thinking. It can also mean that when we do get opportunities or we are put in luck's path, all the expectation about what that could mean for us makes us choke. This is classic performance anxiety that I think is directly derived from the pressure to be extraordinary, whereby pressure gets to a point where it's no longer motivating. It is debilitating. And it means that even when you have all the opportunities you could ask for, you cannot act on them because you are so nervous about screwing the moment. This has traditionally been observed, obviously in athletes who at like the final moment they are doing something that they have done since they were children, they choke. For example. There is evidence of this happening time and time again. Research has shown that in the last 30 seconds of tight basketball games, NBN play NBA players, sorry, are I think 5.8% less likely to score from a free throw line than at any other time in the game or during their history. They're also more likely to perform worse in front of a big home crowd. We're at risk of doing the same. Yes, we may not be playing basketball, but in job interviews, exams, during big meetings for big opportunities, when we start gaining momentum with Something we're really passionate about. We get so anxious about not doing it correctly or about the possibility that something's going to go wrong, that we just. We do nothing and we feel incapable. The best way we can actually counteract this is to bring back the fun to it. Basically, when you say to yourself, like, this is meant to be fun. This isn't meant to be that serious. I'm just here to enjoy myself. I'm here to learn, I'm here to play. This is actually one of the best things you can do for this kind of pressure and this performance anxiety, because you actually trigger your nervous system to calm down and to stop viewing your current situation as a threat. Genuinely, they have done studies on this. People who counteract pressure by asking themselves, how can I enjoy this more? How can I play around with this more? How can I make a game out of this? Do better, they do better. A playful mindset is like magic because it lets you loosen your grip a little bit. And that's really what's killing a lot of this ambition and dreams is that we're so stressed, we're clinging onto it so tightly that we're, like, choking it. We need to be able to let things naturally move and flow. With that in mind, I think it is time that we talk about some other important mindset shifts that can lessen the pressure to be extraordinary and let you start flourishing without the need to be the greatest. And that the first one is the mindset of, like, how can I have fun here? Another is this mantra of being like. Even the ordinary can be extraordinary if I do it with care, if I do it with authenticity, if I do it with focus. Being on Forbes, 30 under 30, being a CEO, being famous, getting headlines, all great. But you can be the best at anything you like that is completely small and minute. You can be the best cook in your friendship group. You can be the best at hosting your games nights. You can be the best at making Canva graphics in your workplace. You can be the best at finding, I don't know, like, remarkable Facebook marketplace deals. I have a friend like that. I genuinely think she could win a world championship. You also don't have to be the best at anything to be extraordinary. This is, again, like, where we need to remake our definition of extraordinary altogether. Like, we need to revise that. Being extraordinary to this current world looks one certain way, and I don't know about you, but it gets rather boring. Like, it's kind of boring. Being extraordinary to you, though, might be very interesting. It might look like Collecting a vast number of experiences, meeting lots of people, taking time off when you know you need it, the ability to travel whenever you want to, hopping off the so called career ladder, doing something that you're passionate about, taking care of yourself. It may be having a lot of interesting side quests. It may be being the person who can always connect others, gaining experiences in every single way possible, not just the career way. Like, there are so many other versions of extraordinary that I think are more extraordinary than what our current definition is like. The current definition of like, what makes extraordinary again is kind of plain like making a lot of money, being very successful in a traditional way. I think at this point it's kind of like, well, I don't, I don't know. Not that everybody can do it, but so many people are there and they don't seem particularly happy. Some of them don't seem like particularly fulfilled or nice people. And they don't seem like they have very fulfilling lives. The version of extraordinary that we're kind of willing to explore just like objectively looks more interesting and probably will lead you to experience a lot more that is like quite nourishing. I also think like our careers, speaking specifically of careers you know, are not. They're a journey, not a race. And they're especially not worth being a race if you hate what you're doing the entire time. And again, what people won't tell you is that people who are stereotypically exceptional, especially early on, like, that in itself can be its own version of golden handcuffs. And not just in like the gifted child being pigeonholed way, but in a really complex way. People who find success early on, it's not all that it's cracked up to be. They often speak about this lack of flexibility they now have. They speak about the curse of a reputation, even a good reputation. They will always be the youngest lawyer, they will always be the teenage CEO. They will always be the athlete, the star from that one show that they made when they were 25, the person who did that one thing once when they were young, and because they were young, it was significant. That means that people question them more when they go to try new things. They see them more or they see them only as what they used to be. And that makes it hard for them to kind of challenge assumptions. It also gives them less room to experiment. Experimentation in itself is extraordinary and I think actually gives you more choice down the line because you've explored the what ifs, you've had more diverse experiences and more opportunities for learning than someone who found success in the first thing they ever did. Probably. They probably don't have that. Not to bag on them, obviously. Like they're very impressive people. I personally know people who are like Forbes 30 under 30. I think they're fantastic and they're very nice. But you actually do have a freedom they don't have. You have reputational freedom to be whatever you want to be when you want to be it, not just when you're 20 and not just at something that's going to follow you around for the rest of your life. Again, being extraordinary may be aspirational. It is no guarantee of happiness. And there's a lot of people, I mean a lot of people who are probably on your vision boards or who come to my mind and would come to your mind when we are asked to describe an exceptional or extraordinary person who are deeply, deeply miserable and who cannot have fun, cannot fail, cannot explore the way that you can as a novice. I also think there's a lot more that matters for our happiness and health than being the best. Let's talk about it some more after this short break.
- [41:45]
Jemma Spa
This summer, find your next obsession on Prime Video. Steamy romance, addictive love stories and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice like Off Campus, Elle, the Love Hypothesis and more. Slow Burns Second Chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. They have so many binge worthy series and can't miss movies perfect for when you're unwinding, reflecting or just want to avoid your responsibilities just for a little bit.
- [42:13]
Podcast Host
No judgment.
- [42:14]
Jemma Spa
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- [43:26]
Garnier Representative
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- [44:23]
Jemma Spa
best kind of Internet is the kind you actually don't even notice because it works so efficiently and so fast. No buffering, no cutting out, no going to start the next episode of your favorite TV show and it not loading when you've had a very long day, especially for somebody who works from home. Broadband Internet is something I rely on every single day. And reliability matters. Good Internet makes all the difference. For more information, go to SmartMove US.
- [44:55]
Podcast Host
There's a lot more that matters for our happiness and health than being the best. And the biggest one that comes to my mind is our relationships. They never get the spotlight that professional success does. That same psychotherapist who talked about learned helplessness, Martin Silkman. He also invented the field of positive psychology. If you want another fun fact, he has conducted extensive research that shows that the strength of our relationships, whether that is with friends, family, a partner, that is the single most reliable measure of well being. More so than fame, for sure. More so than money, for sure. More so than achievement. More so than accomplishment. All these things that we think are hallmarks and will determine a good life, none of it, all of it, pales in comparison to close relationships. Close relationships, more than money, more than fame, are what keep people fulfilled and happy throughout their lives. Again, sometimes we need this grounding reminder. If you are solely focused on being impressive or being seen in a certain way, that it means you don't spend time with your friends. You don't focus on being somebody who can love and be loved like those things are going to carry you so much further. And the people who sacrifice that do miss out in a way that you may not be. The final reminder, the final mindset shift I have for you today is to remember fulfillment and your dreams and executing your Purpose has no deadline. There is no expiration date. This is the curse I think a lot of us struggle with in our 20s. If I am not all that I want to be by a certain age, well, it's never going to happen. I simply don't believe that's true. And I don't see any evidence for that being true either. I can give you, like a very cliche list. You guys have probably seen of all those people, Oprah, Harrison Ford, Vera Wang, Morgan Freeman who have become successes at 40, 50, 60. But I just think in everyday life there are so many stories, if you start looking for them, of people who have found success at ages that are never highlighted or that we would never expect success to come to us at. I'm going to give you an example, and it's a really weird one, but I was in Amsterdam the other day and I went to this strange museum called the Mouse Mansion. And whilst we were there, I'm going to be real. It's a children's museum. But my friend Rosie was like, you have to go. It's really endearing. We go, we. We do a tour. We like paint these little doors for the mice. And this woman shout out to Eleanor, the host was telling us the story of this. This museum is like one now one of the most famous museums in Amsterdam. And I was like, who made this museum? Like, who? Where did this come from? And she was like, it was this woman in her, like 40s or 50s who had had her kids, had a career, and she just like, was having this vision of these mice stories and she wanted. She wanted to make children's books about mice and she wanted to make this mice mouse mansion. And she did it and she found this, like, level of success and like, fame, and she's created all this joy for other people. Like, at an age that, like, I don't think society wants you to find particularly extraordinary, like, finding success in our 40s and 50s, like this woman did, like the Mouse Mansion creator did, is not highlighted as much. But I genuinely think that, like, it is impressive at any age and it's probably sweeter at that age because you've had all this time for self exploration. You've had all this time to explore and to make relationships and make memories that maybe you wouldn't have gotten if you were visibly successful. And that all comes back to you in dividends later on. So I think that that's kind of what I want to end the episode on. The pressure to be extraordinary is immense. All of us have felt it in Some form or another, whether that is when you were at university, whether you were at high school and it was to perform academically or to find internships, whether it is now to be somebody who is considering viral fame, somebody who posts, somebody who starts a business, somebody who starts an AI tech company, it's like never ending. It's aggressively in our faces. It's not all that it's cracked up to be. The pressure to be extraordinary actually sucks the joy out of life. And I think finding ways to, to counteract it and to be like, actually my objective is to have fun. My objective is to have experiences. My objective is to have great relationships is probably going to make you happier than the people we see highlighted as these exceptional people who at 40, 50, 60 are now having the realizations of like who the frick am I that you were able to have at 20 because you didn't have mega success and you hadn't found yourself before you even knew yourself. So I don't know. That's been what I've been thinking about a lot recently and I think it's a real sign that we need to reinvestigate what is successful and what is extraordinary in our society because I think our current version of it isn't all that it's cracked up to be and doesn't seem to be particularly enjoyable for the people who find it. So that's where I'm going to leave the episode. If you have made it this far and if you are listening on Spotify, what is something in your life right now that you think you should be having more fun doing rather than stressing out as much as you probably are about career, hobby, relationship? What is something that you think that you and that you want to focus on enjoying more than you are performing at? Mine is my hobbies. That's an easy one. I feel such a like I constantly feel like I need to monetize or make public everything that I do because like being in my twenties and living as a twenty something is like my. That my brand. And I'm really trying to be better at just enjoying them for me and seeing where they flow personally and for me, not where they flow like for others and for an audience. So that's my answer. Leave yours below as always. Thank you to our researcher Lucy Davidson. She helped us out with this episode. She is great. We have full episodes including this one. Video episodes on Netflix. That is correct. Probably in your country at this point. Australia, New Zealand, the uk, Canada, the us I don't know any of the others. I'm Germany maybe. I actually don't know. I think it's in Germany. But yeah, go and check it out if you're in like if actually, if you are in Germany, that's your. That is actually your objective. Leave a comment because I don't have German Netflix so I don't know if it's there. So you can do some research for us. Substack Instagram all of those things are also in the episode description as well as some of our favorite resources if you want to do a bit more investigating on the pressure to be extraordinary yourself. But I do just hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope it's made you feel great better about your own path. And until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.
- [52:44]
Trashy Representative
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- [53:15]
Jemma Spa
2026 is to make healthier, better choices so I can take care of myself and just have more energy for my everyday life. That is of course easier said than done when life is is so chaotic all of the time. But that is where Premier Protein shakes come in. They have 30 grams of protein, no added sugar, and tons of delicious flavors from cake batter to peaches and cream caramel. They are a healthy choice you'll actually want to make because they never feel boring. Focusing on fitness and health can be really overwhelming, but having 30 grams of protein immediately in the morning with Premier Protein can really get you moving and enjoying life. Premier Protein powers you to say yes to more. Whether it's crushing a big presentation at work, building an epic fort with your kids, or hitting the hiking trail with friends. Find your favorite flavor@premierprotein.com that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers. The future won't wait and neither should you. That's why American Public University offers Master's programs that designed for momentum, affordable, high quality and flexible so you can keep moving forward with career relevant programs in business, healthcare, education, it and so much more. You can gain skills you can use right away and the confidence to power your next move. American Public University made for what's next? Learn more at Apu Apus Edu. The best kind of Internet is the kind you actually don't even notice because it works so efficiently and so fast. No buffering, no cutting out, no going to start the next episode of your favorite TV show and it not loading when you've had a very long day. Especially for somebody who works from home. Broadband Internet is something I rely on every single day. And reliability matters. Good Internet makes all the difference. For more information, go to smartmove.us.
- [55:21]
Trashy Representative
you know that pile of clothes you've been meaning to deal with? Yeah, same. That's why I love Trashy. It's the easiest way to clean out your closet, send your clothes somewhere better and actually get rewarded for it. No more letting things sit around or wondering what to do with them. You just fill up a take back bag with clothes you you don't wear anymore, send it in and Trashy takes care of the rest. Keeping it out of landfills and giving it a second life. It's such a simple way to feel good about clearing space and doing something better for the planet. And here's the best part. You earn cash rewards back for every bag you send, which makes it even easier to stay consistent. You can check it out at Trashy IO Plus with Trashy Unlimited you can can get unlimited bags for just $48 your first year. An easy at home cleanout system so you can stay on top of it all year long. Clean out, Donate, Earn Rewards. Head to Trashy IO to get started today.
- [56:21]
Jemma Spa
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.