← The Rachel Hollis Podcast
The Rachel Hollis Podcast
945 | Is He Letting Himself Go? How to Get Your Man to Dress Better (Without Nagging)
01:04:24
This episode of The RHP features a conversation between Rachel and men’s style coach Tanner Guzy about how personal appearance connects to identity, confidence, and relationships. Tanner explains that clothing functions as a form of “visual language” that not only shapes how others perceive us but also influences how we see ourselves, arguing that many men avoid style out of fear of seeming inauthentic. He introduces the idea that style should reflect internal identity and can help individuals reconnect with purpose, especially during major life transitions such as midlife, career changes, or divorce. Their conversation broadens into themes of personal growth and relationships, suggesting that neglecting appearance can signal deeper disengagement, while intentional effort can strengthen confidence, attraction, and connection. Ultimately, the episode frames style not as vanity but as a practical and creative tool for self-development, encouraging listeners to experiment, align their...
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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
Rachel Hollis
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- [00:59]
Tanner Guzy
This is not another thing that you have to like. It's not another to do or another thing that you should do, but it's another thing that can actually be really fun. So like, on a date night. Date nights are great when you put in the effort to get dressed up because it takes you from the mindset that you're in prior and immerses you into the mindset of what you're doing when you're there doing it. And again, the comparison that a lot of guys can get is like, go back to your high school sports team and you play differently when you're in the uniform versus when you're not, or when you're up on the mountain skiing or snowboarding, you're going to feel different depending on the clothing that you're in. And so if you could think about it as, okay, I love my wife, I'm excited to go do what we're going to go do. How can I dress in a way that helps me be more immersed and more present in what it is that we're doing? How can I dress in a way that that helps her be more immersed and more present in what we're doing? Like, how can we make our appearance be part of the experience that we're having? It's just fun. And it does increase the connection and the attraction and everything else that comes with it, too. It's not a chore. It's actually something that's really enjoyable.
- [02:08]
Rachel Hollis
Hey, guys. I'm Rachel Hollis, and this is the show where we talk about life, real life around here. We cover everything from habits and motivation to relationships, parenting, and what it looks like to build a life that you love. If you're trying to grow, heal, or just feel a little bit more like yourself, you're in the right place.
- [02:39]
Podcast Host
I'm going to jump all over the place. It's. If that works for you. Would you start, though, by just telling the audience a little bit about your work? Because I discovered you through Instagram and I started following you, and I'm a fan of what you're creating, probably because my style tends to run a bit more masculine. But tell everybody who you are creating your content for and the work that you're doing.
- [03:03]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, absolutely. So I've been in the space now for a little over 14 years, and I currently create stuff specifically for men, because most men, especially my age, guys that are, you know, older, millennials, Gen X, kind of grew up with this idea of it's effeminate or gay or dishonorable or whatever other pejorative people wanted to throw at us when we were young. You're not supposed to care about your clothing. And I work to help men understand that regardless of where you fall on any sort of a spectrum or anything else, like, it's healthy to care about your appearance. It's very visual communication. And so I teach men how to be able to think about it in a way that they can use it to have more influence, to be able to accomplish what they want with their lives. So, yeah, with a lot of men that grew up with a lot of turning their noses up at it.
- [03:51]
Podcast Host
Is this something that you went on a personal journey and discovered, or have you always found yourself inside of style and fashion in your career?
- [03:59]
Tanner Guzy
No. So I. I've always been, I would say, hypersensitive to it. When I was in middle school, I was torn between the Christian private school that I went to that had the uniform of the rep striped tie and the gray slacks and the navy blazer. And I was very involved in, like, punk rock. And so I wanted green Liberty spikes and my battle jacket with all the band patches. And I rode a BMX bike and a snowboard. And it was another tribe that was just as esthetically driven. If you didn't wear the right band patches or if you, you know, repped the wrong bike company, then you were treated differently. And so I found pretty early on that I felt differently depending on what I was wearing. And one felt more authentic and more congruent with my identity than the other. But even the way that my friends or my friends, parents, or other people would treat me based on how I dressed Changed, even though I was the same person and they were the same people. And so it was something that I was always relatively sensitive to. And it wasn't until I started writing a blog about it, because, you know, in 2010, you were blogging, and it was. I started a blog about it, and it started to gain some momentum. That led to working in custom suiting for a few years, and then that's what led into doing the coaching and everything full time.
- [05:12]
Podcast Host
So for someone who is listening to this and they haven't really given a ton of thought to how personal appearance ties into identity, how it ties into confidence, what are some of your beliefs around that subject? Because, like, I am so. I know. Because I consume your content. I am so on this. This idea of, like, how do we set ourselves up for the most success we can possibly have in ways that are accessible to us right now? And you can literally change one thing about your outfit, and it changes the way you feel about yourself, which changes the way you carry yourself, which changes the way you go through a day. But if someone's ever thought about that before, how do you teach your clients about that concept?
- [06:00]
Tanner Guzy
So the first thing that I help them understand is a concept that I use called extegrity. And it's basically aligning who you are on the outside with who you are on the inside. And especially. And we're going to paint in a lot of, like, broad brush strokes here. And that's just. If this doesn't apply to you or your husband or your boyfriend, like, that's fine. But in broad brush strokes, most men would rather be. Would rather feel authentic in what they're wearing, even if it's muted or neutral or just kind of, like, diminished, then they would look good and feel like they were lying about themselves. And I would say that most women probably deal with this when they try to help their husbands dress better or try to get them to change their style is it's like pulling a security blanket from a toddler, right? They just won't do it. And the reason why is because they feel like they're honest in how they present themselves, and they feel like they're being dishonest if they change that about themselves. And one of the things that I help most people realize is that you're only being partially honest with the way that you dress, and you're just not lying, which is different than telling the truth. And if you learn how to use your appearance to tell the full truth and to be expressive of who you are in your entirety, then that's when things get to look good. That's when they get to feel authentic and congruent. And that's when things like your confidence, your sense of place, your sense of self, all of these things really start to level up. So it's not playing not to lose, it's playing to win. And it's helping them understand that mindset shift.
- [07:32]
Podcast Host
Okay, so I'm so buzzy about this because I brought you on here. Cause I thought, oh, this would be so rad. You know, the listeners are predominantly women, and we can talk to them about their fellas. And even if there are men listening to this, they are likely the kind that also has a fella that maybe isn't dressing up to par. So what I find really interesting, though, is this is, like, human psychology. You are speaking to men. But this totally applies to me. It applies to everybody listening. Can you unpack that idea of, like, you're telling a half truth? You know? What does that mean? That you're like. You feel like you're showing up authentically, but you're actually. It's like you're stepping. I don't know, you're almost, like, authentically living into your comfort zone, but not your potential.
- [08:17]
Tanner Guzy
Totally. Yeah. I think that's a great way to put it. And again, this is the risk that a lot of people run where if we think about, okay, our clothing, our grooming, our appearance, it's all a visual language. And this is not something that's even unique to us as people. Like, this exists in the animal kingdom, right, where lions have manes to communicate I'm big and I'm scary, or, you know, peacocks will be prettier than peahens because it communicates sexual fertility and viability and all this other stuff. Like, visual language is something that exists in the animal kingdom, and we've just turned it into an entire language as human beings. And most people don't grow up learning how to speak this language anymore. And especially because as our culture gets more and more, like, split up and kind of Balkanized with social media enclaves or all these, like, little micro tribes that we all run in. There's not a universal language that's spoken aesthetically like there was 60 or 80 years ago or anything else like that. And so most people know that, okay, if I'm okay, we'll take it from the men's perspective. I don't want to look like I'm some, like, vineyard vines, wasp, or that I'm some punk rock guy, or that I'm A Hell's angel, or that I'm, you know, some wannabe professional footballer, or that I'm an F1 fan, or whatever else it is that somebody may dress like. And so what a lot of men do is rather than dressing like who they are, they just try to avoid dressing like who they're not. And they get into this very safe, neutral space that doesn't really say anything about you other than I'm not anything. Does that make sense?
- [09:51]
Podcast Host
Yeah, totally. But how do they even. Or I guess this is probably where your work comes in. So clutch is like, how do you even explain to someone who they are or what their style is? Especially for a lot of the dudes that I know who maybe haven't really even considered that anymore. They're just, like, wearing what's comfortable or they're wearing what all the other guys at work are wearing, but they haven't really taken that time to figure out what their personal style is.
- [10:16]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, well, this is where you can even start to turn in. And I do this a lot with my guys, where we either take them back to, like, childhood aspirations or even kind of like different points in history. Because if you ask the average guy that if he could dress like anybody in history, he's not going to choose Lulu ABC pants and his Travis Matthews golf polo and his Jordans. Like, he's not going to pick that. He's going to pick something like the samurai or cowboys or Roman gladiators or something else. And then you start to dive in. Like, why. Why does this resonate with you? What is it about these archetypes, like these types of men? Is it that they were warriors? Is it their credibility? Is that their authority? Is that their discipline? Is that their self respect? Like, what is it that this represents? What is it the clothing represents to you? And then how do we do that in a way that fits within your current context? I mean, kids do the same thing. Like, I didn't dress up as Spider man or as Batman or as somebody else for any other reason other than that I wanted to, like, embody that thing. And what was it about? Why did I choose Spider man over Superman or somebody else? And so if I can help men cue into what it is about these aspirational people that represents these. These different virtues or these different, like, psychological states to them, then we know what their core is and what they're after, Then we can start to craft a visual language around that and help them dress in a way that actually reinforces that back to them, communicates that to Other people does the whole job for them.
- [11:43]
Podcast Host
So when you're working with a new client, do you start with the things first that they dislike, or do you start with the things that they like? Do you have to sort of, like, clear the clutter away before you start building the archetype? Because I'm imagining for most of these guys, if they're coming to you, they might not have a clear story yet of exactly what it is they want to embody.
- [12:03]
Tanner Guzy
We actually start with their identity. Like, on my very first call, I go through with them, and we'll. I'll ask them, how do you want your eulogy to read? What's the kind of man that you want to be? What's the legacy that you want to leave with your kids? Are you somebody who's more happy to go with the rules, or are you more of a rebel? Are you rebellious because it's something that you want to give the middle finger to people or because you value autonomy? More like, the more that I can dive into their relationship with the world around them, and then more often than not, come up with, like, a good term that's a North Star for them, then that's the thing that we can always point back to when we're looking at their clothing. Then as I go through their closet, I could say, does this feel like this represents what we're after? If so, then we build off of it. If not, we get rid of it. And then we go through all these other different steps of the process to go from there. But it all starts internally.
- [12:50]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Honestly, Tanner, it makes me think of, like, there might be someone listening to this right now. And they're like, I don't get the point. Like, who cares? Who cares how you dress? Who cares what your clothes are? Who cares? You know, like, I'm blue collar. I'm working class. There's a lot of pride in that. But then I also think of, you know, have this privilege to get to go and do keynote speeches and speak on different stages. And something that I'm seeing. This happens with women, but it really happens with men in midlife. Is this sense of, like, a full loss of identity, of this idea of, like, is this all there is? Like, I've worked so hard. I did the job. I got the house. I got married. I had the kids. I did all the things I was supposed to do, and I don't know who I am.
- [13:32]
Nordstrom Rack Advertiser
And.
- [13:32]
Podcast Host
And there's a lot of. Honestly, there's a lot of depression in men of this age and older. Cause they're like, trying to figure themselves out. In a lot of instances, they've lost. They've lost, like, their boys. Like, they lost, like, if they were in the military, if they grew up and if they played sports, if they. That was such a vital part of their formative years, and they don't have it anymore. And so it's like this complete loss of who they are. I would love to speak to, like, the person right now who's listening to this, or maybe the wife who's listening to this, who's like, what difference does it make? It makes a hell of a lot of difference, because I think that there's a signal when you see your partner stop caring about their appearance.
- [14:15]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah. And it's one of those things that I think one of the big confusions that we deal with is we think that the majority of the reason that we care about how we dress is because of how it affects other people. Whether we use it to manipulate them or just impact them or impress them or whatever else that may be. And that does matter. It is a language that's communicated to other people. But more importantly than that, it reflects how we feel about ourselves. There was a study that was done just, you know, maybe 12, 13 years ago, and they. They used a term called enclosed cognition, where essentially, what. Have you heard of this?
- [14:52]
Podcast Host
I think it's like how you dress. Then remind me.
- [14:55]
Tanner Guzy
Okay. So what they did is they took three groups of people and they had them do this kind of like, memory retention test. And with the first group, they put a white lab coat on them and they told them that was a lab coat. Right. The second one, they put the same coat on them and told them it was a painter smock. And then with the third group, they put the coat on a desk in front of them and told them that it was a lab coat and everything else. They controlled for as many variables as they could. And what they found is there was faster answers and better answers in this test for the people who were putting it on and thinking it was a lab coat. Because what it did is it imbued them with this sense of, like, more authority, more credibility. I've earned this. Like, there's status that comes with this, and there's all this other stuff that gets tied into it. And so, yes, I mean, you can make the argument that when you've done all of these things, you've gotten to this mid level in life and you've kind of checked all the boxes, that you don't need to dress differently to impress anybody. That's true. But you do dress differently because of the man you see in the mirror or who's the person that's standing in the photos, that's, you know, your family photos that's hanging over the mantelpiece. And for a lot of men, it's like you don't let your wife speak for you, you don't let her chew your food for you. Why are you letting her dress you when it's something that should be an external manifestation of who you are internally. Right. And so if I can help men see that, it is this just natural expression of who they are, this reinforcement, or in a lot of cases even this way, to create this kind of like distance between who I am and who I want to be, where it can create a little bit of that tension that leads to aspiration and growth. These are all the things that your appearance can do beyond just impressing somebody at a job interview or picking up a girl when you're 20.
- [16:36]
Rachel Hollis
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- [16:56]
Podcast Host
I told you guys that I brought
- [16:57]
Rachel Hollis
the on the counter Aquasana filter out into my new office. We are out in the country now, so we're on well water, which is
- [17:05]
Podcast Host
great, but I also just want to
- [17:07]
Rachel Hollis
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- [17:38]
Podcast Host
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- [17:42]
Rachel Hollis
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- [17:43]
Podcast Host
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- [17:45]
Rachel Hollis
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- [18:09]
Podcast Host
Guys, they're sweet.
- [18:10]
Rachel Hollis
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- [18:36]
Podcast Host
We all have experienced those moments in our life. Even if you're listening to this and you're like, I am a jeans and T shirt kind of guy, I am not interested in. Everybody has had a moment where they, like, put on a great suit for their sister's wedding, you know, and you look in the mirror and you're like, oh, okay. You know, like, you carry yourself differently. It's such a simple hack that if you didn't grow up with a love of fashion or you didn't grow up with that being normalized, or you grew up in like a part of the country or part of the world where, like you said, you would have been teased for that growing up, you might not understand that. But if you can remember a moment in your past where you, like, felt that sense of increased self esteem because of what you were wearing, man, imagine what that looks like even one or two days a week where you're just putting a bit more effort in, like, it's just gonna change how you energetically show up in the world a hundred percent.
- [19:28]
Tanner Guzy
And what's so cool is that it doesn't have to be done with formal clothing. It doesn't mean you have to wear a suit two days a week. Stick with jeans and a T shirt, but get them in a way that they feel fit right. Get a T shirt that actually fits your physique well, that feels good on your body, that's made from good quality materials. One of the mistakes that a lot of guys make, and this makes sense because the 20th century model was that more formal clothing was better clothing. But that's not the world that we live in anymore. And so my, my job is to not teach men how to wear suits. It's to teach men how to wear their gym clothes in a way that's more stylish. It's to teach them how to wear their jeans and sneakers. It's to teach them how to dress up for their kids soccer games or to go to whatever it is that they're attending and have their clothing be something that helps them get more immersed in the moment, more present in the Moment, be more participatory in what they're doing and feel more like themselves in what they're doing. And you can do that across the entire formality spectrum. It does not just have to be suits.
- [20:26]
Podcast Host
So if someone's listening to this and they're like, okay, I'm interested, or, you know, like, I wanna touch, like, a toe in the water, what are some things that they could do? Like, where do you have start? If you're, like, on the most basic level, you should have these things in your closet, or you should pay more attention to fit, or is it an accessory? Like, how do you begin? So that people start to feel the effects of their style and the way that they feel about themselves.
- [20:51]
Tanner Guzy
So because I always start on this internal level, one of the things that I do to help guys really start to parse this out is I have them assess what of my three style archetypes they fall into. So I've got three of them. It's rugged, refined, and rakish. And actually have, like, a quiz on my site that they can go and take and help them figure out which of these there are. Because if you lean primarily towards one and you dress towards another, again, it's going to feel like a costume. You're going to feel like a try hard. You're going to feel fake, irrespective of how well things fit or if the colors are good for your skin tone or whatever any of that stuff is. So you want me to break these down for you?
- [21:25]
Podcast Host
Yeah, for sure. I think I found you originally because you made a video about rakish, which is my husband, and I sent him the video. I was like, this is you. Like, this guy's talking about you. So, yeah, yeah, talk us through those three.
- [21:39]
Tanner Guzy
Hey. So again, to understand how this works, you have to understand that this is not primarily about clothing. This is about how men interact with the world around them. So the guys that fit primarily within the rugged archetype, they're at their best when they're engaging with the physical world. So this is like you talked about. This is the blue collar guys. This is laborers. This is guys who are doing things with their hands, and they're affecting the physical world around them. And they are at their best when they get to do that. A lot of times, clothing that works within this regard is stuff that's very heavily textured. It's made out of natural materials. It's stuff that's really based in a lot of, like, function over form. And these guys will feel much more at home in a pair of denim with a T shirt and a chore coat than they ever would in a suitable. But what's fun is that, again, you can even take the rugged and make it work across the entire spectrum. Okay, so that's the rugged guys. Second one is refined. These are the guys who understand systems and hierarchies and rules and laws. And they understand how, whether it's an internal company or, you know, Western civilization at large, whatever it is, they understand how it works. And they're at their best by adhering to those rules and climbing the ladder and going with the flow and really just kind of like conforming. Usually what this means from a clothing perspective is it's simplicity, it's dignified colors, and a lot of times it's this idea of sovereignty, or I dress this way because I want to, not because I have to. You know, you can take somebody like jfk, and the way that he wears a suit is very differently than how Jim Halpert from the Office wore a suit. One of them, right, JFK loved it, Halpert hated it. And it's that attitude that comes across very differently. Right? And then the third one, which is where your husband is, is this rakish. And these are the guys who understand all the systems and the hierarchies and the rules just as well as the refined guys do. But rather than being at their best when they're conforming, they're at their best when they're rebelling and they're going against the grain and they're breaking the rules. And so this is where you get, you know, the iconoclasts and the rock stars and the rebels or the pirates or whatever else it may be. But these are the guys who are comfortable being on the fridges. And so a lot of times their main clothing ethos is going to be like, how do you create juxtaposition? How do you show that you're comfortable with attention without being desperate for attention? How do you create multi dimensionality in your appearance? And so as we can kind of like parse out those things, that gives a lot of guys a really good launching pad. And then we just get further and further into it from there.
- [24:02]
Podcast Host
Is there a uniform, like, as it were, for each one of those? Or if. Is there a uniform kind of like for rugged? And then it goes up to rakish, the other end of the spectrum, where you're less likely to have repetitive outfits.
- [24:14]
Tanner Guzy
See, that's what's so fun, is it all just depends on the guy. A lot of it depends on his tribe, and it kind of goes from there, which is why I don't just do the archetype from archetype, I go into tribe. So, for example, let's say that you're a rugged guy, and if you're where I am in Salt Lake City, Utah, then that rugged is probably going to manifest a little bit more kind of like granola, crunchy, you know, mountains, hiking. And that's very different than somebody who's in heartland Texas. And that's going to show up a little bit more as kind of like cowboy. Or if it's somebody who's back east, then that's going to be a lot more like L.L. bean and duck boots and barber jackets and that type of stuff. Right. And so tribe comes into it. But then more importantly, the next one that we build off of that is your personal taste. Because some guys love the simplicity of a personal uniform, even rakish guys, and they want to wear things that they can just kind of like, get. Get dressed hungover and. And blind and everything else and not have to worry about it. And other guys love the routine of getting dressed every morning and thinking precisely about what they're going to put on. And what's so fun about all of it is none of it is right or wrong. It just depends on what's effective or ineffective and what's energy draining versus energy boosting. And that's why I love what I do, is I get to help each of my guys figure out what of those things is effective or ineffective or what's an energy boost versus an energy drain for them.
- [25:29]
Podcast Host
Do you ever have people who they don't actually have a tribe that they belong to, but they're like, man, I wish that I was this kind of person. Like, I wish that I was dressing like Tanner in Salt Lake City and, like, I had the mountain man vibe. Like, using it almost as a way to, like, find their community.
- [25:48]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. A lot of times we use it that way. A lot of times it's more about the avoidance of the tribe, which, again, it comes back to, like, I'm not wasp, so I'm not going to dress wasp, because I don't want to communicate that. But understanding that relationship to identity, whether it's the avoidance of or the aspiration to, is definitely something that I work with with my guys.
- [26:11]
Podcast Host
It's time for some spring cleaning, guys. And even better, spring is the perfect
- [26:16]
Rachel Hollis
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- [26:38]
Podcast Host
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- [26:41]
Rachel Hollis
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- [27:09]
Podcast Host
So good, so good, so good.
- [27:11]
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Podcast Host
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Podcast Host
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- [27:42]
Podcast Host
I was speaking on a stage last year and there was this guy in the audience. He was like, maybe, maybe 50. And he. I didn't know it at the time, but he was a big executive within the company. It just so happened I'd ask a question and I heard him because he was in the front. I heard him say his answer. I said, oh, can I, can we talk about that? Like, I'm on stage. And he's like, yeah. Not realizing that I was gonna do like a whole intervention with this guy. And it turned out he's, you know, he's in his 50s. He's made it to a high level in this company. His kids are teenagers, got the house, got the wife for a really long time, like, checked all the box. And the question that I had asked was asking about the future. Like, what do you want for your future and what do you see? And I heard him say, what's the point? And I was like. But he said it kind of under his breath. But like, I was like, can we talk about that?
- [28:35]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, let's do it.
- [28:36]
Podcast Host
And I end up talking to this guy and I'm like, you know, hey, do you have the courage to unpack this in front of 300 people, 300 of your co workers? And he's like, okay. And bless his heart, because I think it really did help a lot of other men in that audience that day. But I said, you know, why does it feel like there isn't a point. He's like, well, just. It's the same thing every year, isn't it? Like, you're just checking a box. Are we gonna go on that vacation? Like, he's like, I love my family. I just. Like, there's no. There's no, you know, there's nothing else there. And I was like, okay, before you were married, before you had kids, what is the thing that you love to
- [29:10]
Rachel Hollis
do more than anything?
- [29:11]
Podcast Host
And I saw his whole countenance change. Like his whole face lights up. I still get chills. And I'm like. I was like, that. What did you just think of? And he's like, no, no, no. Like, it's not, you know, it does it. It's not relevant anymore. I'm like, no, what is it? And he said, I loved punk rock. I loved it. It was my favorite. And he's like an executive, right? And I'm like, okay, when's the last time you went to a punk rock show? And he starts laughing. He's like, I don't know, like, 25 years ago, more maybe. And I'm like, bro, go see a punk rock. Like, go. Go see a show. I was like, you were at a stage in your life where you have the money. I'm assuming you have the resources. You can take the time off. And the thing that I know about punk culture, even though I was never a part of it, is that they are accepting of everybody. Like, if you roll down there in your, you know, your, your button down shirt or whatever, they'd be like, hell yeah. Like, Bruce is here. You know, he came to watch the show and he was like. I was like, have you ever shared that passion with your kids? And he's like, no. I'm like, what's your favorite song? And just we do this whole thing where he's talking about the stuff that he used to love. And I said, I just had a curiosity. Any other men here who would love to go see a punk show with him? And like, 50 guys, their hands shoot up. And I just think like, this idea of tribal culture or community. If you are never showing up as this thing that lights you up, how is anybody else supposed to know? How are you gonna find your people if you're dressing like everybody else? So, like, I just am so with you on this and thinking of, like, the women who are listening who have nudged their husband, like, hey, you need to listen to this podcast episode. You deserve to have a community. You deserve to have friends. You deserve to have stuff that makes you feel excited. Like you did when you were 20. But if you don't actually put intention into it, you're never gonna be able to find that again because you're just doing the same thing over and over. The results are never gonna change.
- [31:17]
Tanner Guzy
Which is not to say that you abandon all the things that are the responsibilities that you embrace as you get older. You know, I've had to deal a lot with this in my own personal life where I've got seven kids under the age of 13 and their mom and I are divorced, right. And so I have a week with them where I'm in full on dad mode and that's the energy and everything else. And then I've got a week off where when I'm not at work, it's trying to refind a lot of those things. I was grateful that, you know, I am grateful that in a lot of ways, like I didn't abandon my hobbies, I have a good group of friends that I see consistently and stuff like that. But I think I get to experience this in a way that's different than most men because I have these two almost like bipolar lives. Whereas the ideal is you lean into and you love your career and what you've built. You love being a husband and a father. You lean into. Men need responsibility. It's rocket fuel for the right men. We absolutely need responsibility. But responsibility and identity or hobby or the boys or any of these other things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. And a lot of times they can be very synergistic and they can feed off of each other. And so for a lot of men that do feel like they had to give up on what their unique identity is in order to accomplish the things that they wanted to in life, now is a good time to start to recapture that and embrace that tension that exists between the two, because they can both serve each other. And your family's better for you if you're an individual. They're. They're better off.
- [32:45]
Podcast Host
Absolutely. You saying that reminded me of one of the questions I wanted to ask you, which is this trend I'm seeing on social media right now. Have you seen the videos that are like the divorce effect? And it's like the guys before and after. Okay, if people listening have not seen these, there, I've seen like six of them where it's showing it's only a guy so far. I'm sure there's the girl version of this, but it's only a guy and it's showing him while he was going through a divorce. And in every Video, it's like he's overweight. You can tell he's depressed, he's struggling. It's hard. And then cut to like years later and he's literally a model. Like, it's crazy, the transformation. And every time I go back and like rewatch the video over because I'm like, is this the same guy? So I find this so fascinating because number one, I want to dig into why that happens. Why do we get on the other side of something hard and then all of a sudden you're putting in effort at a level that maybe you weren't before. And then the other piece is, I saw a comment on one of those videos that was like, just a side note. We have no way of knowing who these men were married to. What that person was like, could have been totally toxic and awful and whatever. But someone asked this question where they were like, why weren't you putting in this level of effort when you were married? And not as like a. Not as even like a trash talking thing. But it's such a great question. Like, if you're putting in that level of effort, if you're now a single guy, what would it look like? I think predominantly nobody wants to go through a divorce. Like, sometimes it happens. You've, you've, you're divorced, I've been divorced. Like, it happens in life. But that's not what anybody chooses. You don't get married thinking that that's what's going to happen. So I am curious, like, your thoughts on men in these seasons where it's almost like, how does it get there? Like, how are you getting to this place where you're only putting that effort in after everything has changed?
- [34:50]
Tanner Guzy
Okay, so just thinking out loud, but I can see two different things that come into this. One is a little bit more controversial and a hot take than the other. So which do you want first?
- [35:01]
Podcast Host
Whatever, Whatever order. We're here for it all. Okay, so I think Tanner's hot take on divorce thoughts.
- [35:07]
Tanner Guzy
So the less controversial of the two is that I think in general, people want the world to make sense. And the world is a lot safer when we follow a script that we've been given. And you think that by checking all of the boxes and purely just by checking all of the boxes of go to school, go to college, get married, get a career, have kids, buy the house, that that means that somehow there's going to be fulfillment. Now that doesn't happen for a lot of people. And the problem is, is that a lot of people then develop this very kind of, like, antagonistic attitude and say all of those things are actually bogus, and none of those mean anything. And it's like, no, that's not the case. We're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. But you need to do all of those things while simultaneously not thinking that just mindlessly checking those boxes is going to be enough to give you a sense of identity, a sense of sovereignty, a sense of connection and fulfillment and everything else. Because you can go through. I mean, okay, for the guys, let's use a gym metaphor. I can go to the gym every day, and I can go bench press the bar for three sets of 10 reps, and I'm never going to see any improvement because it's the bar and it's not. It's not a progressive overload. And if you go through your life just like, checking the box, if I did these things without actually intentionally going in and doing it with a growth mindset, then it doesn't matter if I go to the gym every day. It doesn't matter if I check all those other boxes, if I'm not actually doing it towards growth and fulfillment and not only my identity, but the identity of my family and all of that. So I think that's part of it. And then the more controversial reason is I actually think that a lot of guys have overcorrected on the idea of patriarchy. And because we are eschewing so much of what was considered to be oppressive patriarchy, a lot of men have allowed themselves to just become kind of like henpecked or doormats or other things as a way to avoid any allegations of being anything other than the consummate nice guy. And then the problem is, is they lose. I mean, they lose their balls, they lose their own sense of self. They lose everything. And then when they go through the divorce is when they're almost forced to have to, like, regain that and refine that. Whereas you're better off if you can still maintain yourself as a man while being in the marriage and while still being in the family and everything else,
- [37:31]
Podcast Host
I can completely understand that perspective. And you are going to know so many more guys in that scenario than I do. But I think this idea of just individuals owning themselves and who they are and growing as individuals is one of the most important things that we can do. And it happens on both sides, right? Like, you get into a relationship and you sort of just become the other person, and you become the other person's comfort level, and you sort of stay inside this thing together. That was, I I met my ex husband really young and I sort of grew up. Like a lot of couples do this. You, like, grow up together. And if no one's really setting a standard or raising a standard, you just kind of like, go with the flow. But at least from a woman's perspective, when we get to midlife, so many things are happening for us hormonally. And I know this because this is my entire community. This is around the age like 35, specifically, where women are like, okay, the kids are maybe a little bit older. I have a little bit more time and space for myself, so I'm going to start working on myself. And if you are both in that, whether you are a man and a woman or a same sex couple, like, if both sides of that equation are working on themselves together, you're freaking power couple. You are unstoppable. Like, nothing can stop you. But if you have one side of that relationship where someone's really trying and they're really putting in effort and their partner for whatever reason is kind of just like digging themselves further and further into the whole or like staying in that comfort zone, I do not know how that relationship lasts. I really don't. And I don't think I know that you cannot make someone change by asking them to change or giving them an ultimatum. Like, the only way someone's changing is if they are inspired to change for themselves. But, like, it is so dangerous. And this is for both sides of a marriage. If one of you is growing and one of you is not, I don't know how that survives.
- [39:37]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, yeah. And it gets so tricky because like you said, even if you people aren't going to change or even if they do, then they're going to resent the change. And so the only thing you can do is do your best to become as growth oriented as you can be while still maintaining your responsibilities and your commitments and everything else, and then let the other person make the decisions that they're going to make based on who it is that you're doing and what it is that you're committed to.
- [40:06]
Podcast Host
Yeah. I think that, like, what just popped into my head too is like, for anybody who's listening to this, who does have a partner who is changing, let's. I'm specifically speaking to women right now who are married to men. And the guy is actually trying, like, he's like, I'm gonna go to the gym, I'm gonna get in shape, I'm gonna like, connect with the boys. And I'm not talking about the guys who like, shirk responsibility. They leave everything to you. I'm not talking about those guys. That's a whole other podcast. But specifically, like, you're both carrying your weight. You're both working really hard. You're doing the thing, and now your guy, you know, decides to, like, run a half marathon. He's doing something that's different because this
- [40:43]
Tanner Guzy
is improvement instead of blowing up a million percent.
- [40:46]
Podcast Host
I have seen this with so many couples. I know where the woman gets pissed. Like, she's pissed because she's like, all he does is, like, work out. Now all he does is like. And I find it so crazy because I'm like, wait, did you want a better version of your partner? Like, you said, you wanted a better version of your partner. This goes both ways, and then the partner tries to improve, and now you're upset about it. So I do think that there is, like, you know, I wanted you to come on because I thought it would be so helpful for the women listening. But at the same time, you can't control your partner trying to grow if you try and control. It's like you said, like, nobody wants their wife dressing them. You want to, like, figure your own stuff out, because you're going to feel so much more embodied and empowered if you are the one who's actually doing it on your own.
- [41:36]
Tanner Guzy
Yep. And I wish that more wives understood how easy it is and how powerful it is to. Oh, you. You have so much impact over the way that your husband dresses. You just have to compliment him and jump his bones when you like the way that he looks. And that is a positive feedback loop that he is going to jump on again and again and again. Right.
- [41:56]
Podcast Host
It's so dumb, but I literally did think that coming into this conversation with you, I was like, if men just purely understood at the most basic level that you would get more action if you just put some effort into your. Into the way that you look. You present yourself. Have you gotten a haircut? In a minute. Did you shave? How do you smell? Did you put on that cologne she got you for Christmas? Like, just at the most freaking basic level, if you can't do it for yourself and you're not interested in doing it for yourself, you would get more booty. That's all. Like, it's so, so basic going back to that kind of animal, like, level of showing off for someone. Like, hey, I'm interested in you. Because it's like, yeah, I'm like, I'm putting effort into this thing. If you have a date night, let's Say, and, like, just having a date night is so great, and that's something that so few people who are married will ever even do. But, like, if you have a date night, make it a special occasion. And that goes both ways. Like, for him, whatever makes him feel really good for her. Maybe you're putting on the pushup bra. Like, do something for each other that signals that, like, you know what? I'm trying. I am trying. That is a real thing that, like, I feel like it got uncool to put effort in.
- [43:09]
Tanner Guzy
And, like, everybody has to be nonchalant.
- [43:11]
Podcast Host
Everybody has to not care. Like, oh, I don't want to be a no. At least not in our generation. I think there's something so inspiring when you see that someone put effort into how they show up in the world.
- [43:23]
Tanner Guzy
Well. And I think what's sad is that so many people, but especially men, miss out that this is not another thing that you have to. Like, it's not another to do or another thing that you should do, but it's another thing that can actually be really fun. So, like, on a date night, date nights are great when you put in the effort to get dressed up because it's. It takes you from the mindset that you're in prior and immerses you into the mindset of what you're doing when you're there doing it. And again, the comparison that a lot of guys can get is, like, go back to your high school sports team and you play differently when you're in the uniform versus when you're not, or when you're up on the mountain skiing or snowboarding. You're going to feel different depending on the clothing that you're in. And so if you could think about it as, okay, I love my wife. I'm excited to go do what we're going to go do. How can I dress in a way that helps me be more immersed and more present in what it is that we're doing? How can I dress in a way that helps her be more immersed and more present in what we're doing? Like, how can we make our appearance be part of the experience that we're having? It's just fun, and it does increase the connection and the attraction and everything else that comes with it, too. It's not a chore. It's actually something that's really enjoyable.
- [44:33]
Podcast Host
Do you think that people need to have money in order to present themselves well in the world? And if someone's listening and they don't feel like they have a big disposable income. What are ways that they can still carry themselves well without having to spend a ton of money?
- [44:49]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, I love this question. So, no, you do not need to have money. I could take a client and we could go shopping at Target or H and M or Walmart or a thrift store, and we could still do things really well. And again, even if you think about it as far as, like, what is particular? And again, guys, historically have understood this. Dad had his lucky tie, and that was what he wore when he really wanted to, like, close big sales or things like that. So if you have a particular jacket that you wear on date night, because that's what helps you get into the mindset of date night. Or it's like, you think about, like, the intro to Mr. Rogers where he
- [45:22]
Podcast Host
comes home and just takes out one
- [45:23]
Tanner Guzy
cardigan for the other and just puts on the sneakers. Like, it's just the routine and the ritual of, I'm shifting gears from this to this. The clothing in and in and of itself doesn't matter nearly as much as what is the meaning or the symbolism that you inject and imbue into it and how you can use it to help you cross a particular threshold. Like, there's nothing magical about religious clothing, but people dress different ways based on their different religions because it helps put them in a mindset. There's nothing magical about a graduation cap and gown, but because of the meaning that we've injected into it, we. We treat it differently, whether it's a suit or anything else. And so what's fun is in your own life, as a couple, as an individual, is you can decide, this is what this particular piece of clothing means. I'm going to wear it when I'm in this mindset and allow it to actually help cultivate that entire presence and experience for you.
- [46:17]
Podcast Host
So what is your clap back to the person listening to this right now who's like, this is just how I am. Like, I'm wearing this ratty T shirt. These jeans don't fit me. This like you. They're dressing the same way. They've been wearing the same clothes since 1992. Not the good ones. And their. Their clap back to their partner is like the Accept me, love me as I am. This is. This is who I am. Is that confidence or is that laziness or is that fear that sort of, you know, we're disguising it as something else?
- [46:52]
Tanner Guzy
So most guys, when they say they just want to be comfortable, what they're really saying is they just want to be psychologically. Comfortable. Because if it were just about physical comfort, you would wear a dress because it's more comfortable than pants and a shirt. Right.
- [47:04]
Podcast Host
You'd be rocking that kilt, though.
- [47:06]
Tanner Guzy
You would. Right. Or in the winter, you would just be in a Snuggie and you would never get your hair cut, you would never trim your nails, you would never do any of these other things. Right. And so what you're really saying when you dress these things is I have. Okay, this is another one of my hot takes. I argue that men care about clothing way more than women do. But the difference is, is that it's because there is such a strong correlation between how we dress and what our identity is, that what this guy who dresses this way and has dressed this way since 92 or 2002, whatever, is saying is that my identity has not changed since then. It hasn't grown, it hasn't evolved, it hasn't developed. I am stuck in whatever time period this was. This is the entirety of my identity. Therefore, growth is scary, development is scary, and I need somebody to accept me as I am rather than having any expectations of me, having any aspirations for me or anything else. And so it's more often than not rooted in fear and rooted in a sense of kind of like, I'm not any bigger or I'm not any better than it actually is rooted in any sort of confidence.
- [48:12]
Podcast Host
Okay, wait, is that actually, like a super sneaky hack if someone is single and they're dating and you, like, see pictures of the guy you just started dating or the girl you just started dating from a decade ago, and they look exactly the same and they're wearing the same clothes. Like, I never thought about this before, but that is actually a really good tell that they have not evolved. And if they haven't evolved in 10 or 15 years, no way they're going to just magically start evolving now that they're with you?
- [48:43]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I see pictures of guys that I went to high school with that are still wearing their, like, flex fit backwards hats and they're puka shells and they're like over the knee shorts. And it's just like, guys, this is. Right. And it's like, guys, ironically, this is now almost like come full circle and you're back on things again.
- [49:01]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Now they look on trend.
- [49:03]
Tanner Guzy
And you have to be careful with this because what a lot of guys will hear is that you have to be trendy, and you don't have to be trendy. You don't. There's a big Difference between, like, dressing like, I wish that I were 18 and having to be on the cutting edge of fashion and things like that, and dressing in a way that is just aware of cultural changes and shifts and kind of, like the energy that gets injected into things. So guys that are in your 40s, like, believe it or not, skinny jeans are not rebellious and punker. Like, those are dad jeans now, you know, and. And you have to kind of embrace that. No, that doesn't mean that you're, like, going back into your jenkos, that you're going really full on into, like, barrel jeans and stuff like that. But maybe try something that's like, a straight cut instead of a skinny jean and just signal to yourself that I am not 18, but I'm also not dead yet. And there's a lot of, like, good, healthy social cohesion that comes with that attitude too.
- [49:55]
Podcast Host
Well, honestly, it's 2026. You can wear literally any style in this day and age and is like, if you wear literally anything, but you can tell that that person, you know, every once in a while you see someone out and they're like rockabilly or that, you know, they're like, they look like a 40s pinup girl. They have the great hair and beautiful makeup, and they're wearing clothes from the 40s. It makes no sense in their setting. But in order to show up in that space, they have such energy and confidence to be wearing that outfit that you're like, hell, yeah. Like, nobody. Everybody loves it. Everybody's gonna compliment that person. And if someone thinks it's weir, who cares? Like, you can literally rock any style at this point. So saying that, oh, I can't find something that fits for me, to me, feels like you're, you know, you're just talking. If someone is hearing this, though, I'm curious how you go about you personally. How do you go about adding pieces to your closet? This is maybe, like, next level from someone who's just starting out. But if you do you look on Pinterest, are you out in the world? And you're like, oh, I love how that guy looks in that particular hat. I'm gonna take a picture. I'm gonna, like, make a note to myself, because I think I'm based on what I see you wear and what I see you talk about. It doesn't strike me that you're going and buying every single trend. What it actually looks like you're doing is this, like, you're pulling in these classics. You have these great pieces. You're re wearing things in different ways. So to me, that looks like you're investing in those things that you can use over and over again. So how do you even figure out, like, how to get the thing or how to notice what it is you want to add?
- [51:41]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, okay. A couple different resources that are really good for a lot of my guys and my clients. Pay attention to the characters that you really resonate with in the movies and the TV shows that you watch. And what is it about that that, again, you can kind of, like, extrapolate what it means, and then how do you apply that within your context? And it may be something that's like, okay, you. I mean, you could, but I don't recommend that you dress like Luke Skywalker or Aragorn or somebody else. But what is it that their clothing represents that you can then apply within your own context? I do spend a lot of time on social media, whether it's on Instagram or Pinterest. But part of that for me is just because it's my job, you know, and so I'm keeping an eye on stuff like that. But a lot of times, it's having a few different. I mean, my biggest style inspirations are Mike Aitken, who was a BMX guy in the 2000s, and Gabe Supporta, who played in a pop punk band in the two in the 2000s. You know, like, I love a lot of these menswear guys. They're great, but the ethos and the thing that they really communicate doesn't ever resonate with me like the stuff did when I was really in my. My early age. Now, the other thing that I do a lot of is I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how do I take pieces that are more casual and elevate them in a way that's a little bit more refined. So I am doing a lot of custom stuff currently where it's like, how do you take a chore coat or a bomber jacket that's traditionally something that's a little bit more rugged and a little bit more workwear? And how do you do it in, like, a suiting material, like a linen or a flannel or something else that's going to elevate it a little bit? And that's where I probably fall. I'm certainly not a designer, but I fall closer into, like, the designer camp than a lot of my clients will. But it just depends on, like, how much fun you have with it. You know, go. Go thrifting. See what the Instagram algorithm throws at you. But the Biggest thing that I can tell people is when you have an emotional reaction to clothing, whether it's positive or negative, take the time to sit with it and see what it is that it's actually making you feel, why it's making you feel that way, and then try to figure out how you can adapt your style according to what it is that that emotional response is.
- [53:51]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I heard a. I met with a stylist, like, six or nine months ago, and she said this line that has really helped me a lot. She was like, that can be your taste, but not your style.
- [54:04]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah.
- [54:04]
Podcast Host
So, like, you can admire something that you see and think it's so fantastic. I do this all the time. I'll see people on Instagram. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's so gorgeous. Like, I'm not. I don't dress it super feminine. I don't wear dresses. It's just not my jam. But I think they're so beautiful. Like, my favorite day of the year is the Met Gala. I love seeing what people wear. I love seeing that on other women. But it's not me personally, but in my 30s, I didn't understand that. So I kept going out and buying the things that I would see other women look beautiful in, and I would admire how beautiful they looked, and then I would put them on, and I would feel so, so uncomfortable. I always felt like I was a little girl dressing up in my mom's clothes. And it does not matter how great everybody else says that you look, if you are carrying yourself in a way, you know, like, if you feel really uncomfortable, your energy and your. The aura that you're giving off is like, that person doesn't want to be here. That person doesn't feel good. You're worried. Like, oh, my gosh, is. You know, it is so much better to show up in an outfit that you feel really great in, that you're like, I don't really even care if this makes sense to y', all, but I feel fantastic.
- [55:13]
Tanner Guzy
Yep. Yeah. And it's fun if you can find ways to be able to tweak that and play within some of the constraints of that. I. I published a book on. On all this stuff about a decade ago. And in the intro, I talk about my uncle, who grew up in, like, very rural Idaho. He's a total loner. You know, he's got a few different birds. He's a falconer and stuff like that. And when his mom, my grandma, passed away away a few years back, he needed a suit for the funeral. But he hates suits. He hates everything about them. And so what we did, and I was working in suiting at the time, is we did a very lightweight but very textured, like charcoal flannel suit for him that felt more like what you would have worn if you were in, like, Britain hunting 300 years ago. And so it still felt rugged, it still felt congruent for him. But it wasn't him just showing up in jeans and a denim work shirt to a funeral and having it be disrespectful to his mom from his perspective or distracting for everybody else in the family. And so if you're open to being able to figure out, okay, here are my constraints, because, yeah, I'm not going to show up in swim trunks and flip flops at a, at a black tie event, but how can I show up in a tuxedo that's still going to feel like it's congruent with who I am? And a lot of times that's where style can get really, really fun.
- [56:31]
Podcast Host
How can women get the men in their lives to get on board with this without nagging, without embarrassing them, without making them feel weird? Like, are there some things. Is it like you have a conversation and it's super chill? Is it like, oh, I got you this thing? Like, what, what would you say is the way to go about it without your husband feeling henpecked by you mentioning it?
- [56:57]
Tanner Guzy
So, as always, lead with curiosity as opposed to, like, condemnation or things like that. And I would start to ask him even things that feel like they're kind of style adjacent but are a little bit further out where it's, you know, the kind of the questions that we already address, like, what. What superhero did you dress up as when you were a kid? Or when you guys played cops and robbers? Were you the cop or were you the robber? Or, you know, if you could go. If there were no dress code and you could dress like any warrior from any class, would you be, you know, this, like, Mayan eagle warrior, or would you be a samurai or what would you be? And then start to just get curious and see if you can help kind of like dissect what that is and then show some excitement. I think where most guys feel henpacked or nagged or anything else like that is when their wives, again, because of the correlation between appearance and identity, is when they feel like their wives are trying to dress them, that they feel like they're trying to change, change who they are. But if you can come at it with the approach of, I love who you are, and I want you to feel more like yourself. And I want to see if we can work with clothing that helps you feel more expanded in yourself as opposed to, I'm just going to dress you up like a mannequin based on whatever show I'm binging right now. Then the men in your life will be much more open to this idea. Yeah.
- [58:13]
Podcast Host
Yeah. It's funny. You said that a lot. And I've seen this in your content as well. It sounds like that's a big issue for a lot of guys is they might not know who they are, but they know who they are not. And they don't want anything that represents who they are not. Probably more because of what that style represents to them. Like, you've used the example of, like, WASPy energy, and they're like, oh, yeah. Guys like that are X, Y, Z. Like, it means something to them. And they don't want anyone to think they're that kind of guy. So that, I feel like, is a big unlock for a lot of us today who are with men to understand what a big deal it is that they don't feel like someone other than themselves.
- [58:54]
Tanner Guzy
Yep. They would rather be neutral than a liar.
- [58:57]
Podcast Host
It's so crazy that that, like, that's the word that they're using. That's the psychology that they're using is like, I'm lying if I'm pretending to be something else.
- [59:06]
Tanner Guzy
Yep. God, where do you think it's Poser. Yeah. You even think about it? Where? I think that there's something that's very correlated with this. This is, again, just me totally speculating, but okay, let's say that my kid's mom comes home and she's changed her hair. They're going to recognize it. But it's not going to be this major thing if when they come over to my place on Thursday and I've shaved my beard, they don't recognize me. They feel like I'm an entirely different person. Like, there is somebody who has replaced their dad. So I don't know if there's on. On a biological level or on some social level, but we expect a different kind of consistency and congruence in a man's appearance than we do in a man's.
- [59:48]
Podcast Host
You are so right. You are so right. My husband has long hair and, like, long, gorgeous, curly hair, like, to his shoulders. And I've never known him with anything else. I see pictures of him from, like, 10 years ago where his hair is really short. I would have an emotional breakdown. Tanner, if he Cut his hair. Like, we all would. It would be so stressful because it's like, it's so a part of him. I've never thought about that before, but you're right, we do have a different. He has a beard, too. Same thing. Like, I can't even imagine him without a beard. It would be a different person.
- [60:22]
Tanner Guzy
It's a different. It is an imposter that would be in your house, in your home, and in your bed if he changed those things. And it's not. He's still the same man. But. Yeah, it's crazy, huh?
- [60:31]
Rachel Hollis
Yeah.
- [60:31]
Podcast Host
That is such a trip. I need to, like, sit with that. Are there things that you think make men more attractive? Like, whether it's the fit of their clothing or like, I feel like you probably have some hacks that you've created with the guys that you work with that, like, it tends to have maybe more success for them if they're trying to go out and, like, find a partner or, like, be at the bar and feel good about themselves.
- [60:56]
Tanner Guzy
I am an adherence to. I have a friend named Jack Donovan who wrote a book called the Way of Men, and in it he talks about the, the. The tactical virtues. Because you go in any culture and a real man or what makes a good man can vary quite a bit depending on the culture that you live in and you exist in. But if you kind of zoom out, then almost all of them value. And this doesn't mean that women aren't valued for these things, but men are primarily judged by these things. And it's strength, courage, mastery, and honor. And if a man can embody those things and it's different, it's different. If you're in. If you're a twitch streamer and you're in a gaming circle, then honor or mastery looks differently than it does if you're an executive for, you know, some big Fortune 500 company or whatever else. But when guys one you, you, you can't dress like it if you don't have it. So you have to develop strength, courage, mastery and honor. And then when you can find a way that actually embodies that, then that's when you're going to look good, irrespective of whether you're in a suit or jeans and a T shirt, or whether you're 6ft and 130 pounds or 5, 8 and, you know, 200 pounds. Like, whatever it is. When you can embody those different things, that's when it starts to come across as really attractive and really confident.
- [62:13]
Podcast Host
What is the type of guy who is seeking you out, not just like in your followers, but the people who actually hire you and you're working with them one on one. Is there a through line in like the age that they are or the the part of life that they find themselves in?
- [62:27]
Tanner Guzy
It's so fun because there's no through line in age or status or career. I've worked with guys that are in their 20s and guys that are empty nesters in their 60s, but the one through line is it's somebody who's gone through some sort of identity shift in their life. It's a divorce or they've lost a bunch of weight or they're now empty nesters or they sold the company or they switched careers or they moved. But something that makes them confront, who I am now is not who I was. And what I see in the mirror still reflects the old version of me. And I want something that reflects the current or the building version of who I am.
- [63:00]
Podcast Host
It's so stinking important. And I think that a lot of people listening to this, no matter their gender, are at an age where they're asking themselves those questions. And there's so many things that you said today that I think apply to us as women just as much as men. Just test it out. This is what I would love to say to anyone listening. Just try, just try for a couple of weeks to put some more effort in and see how you feel. Is there something that people could do as a little bit of a test without buying a single thing? Like go into your closet right now and just do this a little bit differently as you go into the week and see if you don't feel better in your own skin.
- [63:41]
Tanner Guzy
So the first thing is to understand that one of the barriers to this is that unlike any other skill that we develop, your style is something that you learn how to do in public rather than private. How many people would quit learning to play the piano or playing a sport if you were always having to do that in public? Right? Yeah, but it doesn't mean that you have to do it in public. So when you come home from work or on a Saturday or a Sunday morning or something else, if you have something that you've wanted to try and wanted to experiment with, that's when you put it on and you wear it around the house. And maybe your family sees it, maybe you live alone and nobody else sees it, but a lot of it is you. You just getting comfortable and kind of like embodying it and getting familiar with it because a lot of Times it just feels different or, you know, I've got clients right now that are wearing wider stuff and they love the way that it looks in photos or in the mirror, but they hate the way it looks when they look down and they see their feet when they're walking. And it's like, that's just a matter of putting in reps. Like, you just. You just got to do it enough to where you get used to it. Right? So practice in private when you can practice. And the second is to just treat it as. Treat it like doodling. Okay. When you're drawing something, the ability to execute on it matters. And there's all these stakes of like, am I creating this beautiful piece of art and am I doing this? But when you're doodling or when you're just like goofing around on the guitar versus playing at a concert or something else like that, the mistakes aren't authorized threat. They're part of the creative process. And it just becomes something that there's no longer this emotional connection to perfection or execution. And so treat some of the things that you see on social media in different films, in whatever other context, just treat it like doodling and you're going to screw it up and that's fine. But just doodle and again, do it in private and it doesn't matter because nobody else is going to see it.
- [65:31]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So good, because, like, that's something we all need to remember right now. If you're listening to this and you're like, I have no style. Like, I am just rocking the same thing over and over. Nobody came into this world stylish. Nobody, like, was born and just like automatically had the cool style that you see. They messed around, they played, they tried stuff, they saw what worked, they saw what didn't. The other thing that I learned recently, this was like, I saw it on a reel when she was like, one of the greatest pieces of confidence I know of is rewearing great outfits. Like when you put something on head to toe and you're like, this is incredible. She's like, it's very European that you would then three weeks from now rock that exact same setup versus. I grew up thinking that if you were stylish, you invented a brand new look every single day. And every single day you like, it's so intense. But, like, when you find something that looks great, wear it again. It's like the simplest idea in the world. But that is something I only learned recently.
- [66:30]
Tanner Guzy
Yeah, because we conflate this idea of it has to be unique or it has to be new, or it has to be innovative in order for it to work for us. And it doesn't where you can do things on repeat. I mean, anybody who's spent the time trying to get in shape knows that you do better when you just meal prep and you. You repeat the same meals. Or anybody who's learned an instrument knows that you play scales over and over and over again, and that's where you pick up the dexterity. Or, you know, I remember six years into boxing, I spent one afternoon with a coach where we spent two hours straight just working on my cross, and that's when it finally clicked. And so there's a reason why any creative endeavor says go back to the fundamentals. And so, of course, it's going to be the same applicable thing for your style. You don't always have to be trying something new. Just get really good at repeating and then picking up on the nuances of what makes those wins really good wins.
- [67:20]
Podcast Host
Tanner, this has been so awesome, and I feel like people just got so much mad wisdom from you. Will you tell them all the places that they can find you online, whether. Whether you got a boy, a boy that you want to hook up with your content, or you're like me and you just want to enjoy the style advice. You also make really good reels with guys from, like, the 90s, the 70s, the 60s, and I'm like, yes, this guy. Will you tell everyone where they can find you online?
- [67:47]
Tanner Guzy
Absolutely. Yep. So I'm active on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. It's all Anerguy, which is T, A N N E, R, G U Z Y. If you want to take the archetype quiz or learn more about some of my other stuff, you can go to masculine-style.com and then the book that I wrote is called the Appearance of Power, and you can find that on Amazon or really kind of anywhere else. So those are the best places to find me.
- [68:10]
Podcast Host
Rad. This has been such a gift, and I feel like we're going to get a lot of really good feedback. So I appreciate you coming onto a podcast and talking to an audience that maybe you wouldn't normally get in front of. We really appreciate having you here.
- [68:22]
Tanner Guzy
So much fun. So much fun to get to talk about it in this context. So thank you for having me on. It was a blast.
- [68:28]
Podcast Host
Yeah, of course.
- [68:34]
Rachel Hollis
The Rachel Hollis podcast is produced by me, Rachel Hollis. It's edited by Andrew Weller and Jack Noble.
- [68:48]
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- [69:05]
Tanner Guzy
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- [69:06]
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- [69:17]
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