998 | Why Do "Trad Wives" Make Them So Angry?

Summary

The Rachel Hollis Podcast

Episode 998 | Why Do "Trad Wives" Make Them So Angry?
Release Date: August 10, 2026
Host: Rachel Hollis

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Episode Overview

Rachel Hollis dives into the heated topic of “trad wives”—women who embrace traditional homemaking roles—and why their lifestyle choices evoke such strong emotional reactions, especially among other women. Inspired by a recent interview with influencer Nara Smith, Rachel explores the cycle of online judgment, the roots of jealousy and criticism, and the importance of accepting each others’ life choices. With her signature warmth and directness, Rachel calls for deeper self-reflection and more compassion, challenging listeners to consider what their judgments reveal about themselves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is a "Trad Wife?"

• Definition: “Trad wife” is shorthand for traditional wife—women who choose a lifestyle based on traditional gender roles, like staying home, raising kids, and prioritizing homemaking (04:00).
• Notable Examples: Nara Smith and Hannah Nealman of Ballerina Farms, with a passing nod to Martha Stewart as the “OG” domestic goddess (06:30).
• Cultural Context: The trad wife aesthetic, with its romanticized visuals of linen dresses, made-from-scratch meals, and home life, exploded during the pandemic as people turned to simpler, slower routines.

2. The Nara Smith Interview Takeaways

• Rachel’s Impression: Rachel praises Nara’s intelligence, emotional depth, and wisdom, noting her surprise at Nara being only 24 with four kids (09:00).
• Quote:

  “She’s a very old soul. I found her very wise for 24.”
  — Rachel Hollis (09:30)

• Online Identity vs. Reality: Discussion of how Nara and others both lean into and resist the “trad wife” label as part of their public persona and business model.

3. Why Are People So Triggered by Trad Wives?

• Central Question:

  “Why do you care?”
  — Rachel Hollis (11:20)

• Liberal Paradox: Rachel observes that criticism often comes from women who advocate for freedom of choice, yet react harshly when others choose traditional paths (12:20).
• Religious Parallels: Rachel draws on her upbringing in a conservative religious environment, relating the trad wife debate to broader issues of conformity and personal freedom (13:45).

4. The Judgment-Jealousy Link

• Introspection Exercise: Rachel encourages listeners to think of someone they judge online and asks what that reaction says about their own unmet desires or insecurities (18:10).
• Quote:

  “Judgment and jealousy… are a really strong signal.”
  — Rachel Hollis (18:46)

• Abundance Mindset: When you’re happy and fulfilled yourself, there’s no room (or need) for judgment (20:00).

5. Case Study: Working Moms vs. Trad Wives

• Emma Grede Example: Successful businesswoman Emma Grede is judged for spending “only 20 minutes a day” with her kids, illustrating how judgment targets both ends of the lifestyle spectrum (28:50).
• Media Framing: Rachel highlights how the media cherry-picks details to paint women as bad mothers, regardless of which path they choose.

6. The Conspiracy of Division

• Manipulation by Media/Society: Rachel suggests our judgment and divisiveness are being purposely stoked by societal forces— likening it to crabs pulling each other down in a pot (34:10).
• Quote:

  “We are being manipulated to be divided... We were being taught not to want each other to thrive.”
  — Rachel Hollis (34:29)

7. What Judging Others Really Means

• Consistency Over Time:

  “The person that you judge… changes. The reason that you are judging them does not.”
  — Rachel Hollis (36:20)

• Actionable Insight: Strong emotional reactions to other women’s choices are information—signals that point to unresolved issues or desires within ourselves (36:58).
• Virtue Signaling: Publicly judging others online is more about declaring your own values than genuine critique.

8. The Cost of Judging Others

• Unhappiness Link:

  “People who are judgmental are never going to live truly happy lives. Period.”
  — Rachel Hollis (44:30)

• Internal Critic: Those harshest about others are also harshest with themselves, sabotaging their own happiness.

9. The Healthy Alternative: Acceptance

• Rachel’s Call to Action: Work on your own dreams and life. If you’re wrapped up in someone else’s choices, you’re not working on your own enough (47:20).
• Encouragement:

  “Let them wear their apron. Let them make their sourdough. Let them chase a billion dollars. Who cares, man?”
  — Rachel Hollis (46:50)

• Practical Guidance: Pause before commenting online, and ask yourself: What does this reaction say about me? (48:10)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On supporting varied life choices:

  “If you want to have 10 kids, I support you. If you don’t want to have a partner if you’re not interested in dudes… I support you getting to live life on your terms.”
  — Rachel Hollis (02:40)

• On judgment cycles:

  “When did another woman’s choice become a referendum on how you are living your life?”
  — Rachel Hollis (38:15)

• On social media negativity:

  “If you have the instinct… to write snarky things, just pause and ask: Why does this bother me?”
  — Rachel Hollis (48:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:00] – Defining “trad wives” for listeners unfamiliar with the online movement
• [09:00] – Rachel’s reaction to Nara Smith’s Call Her Daddy interview
• [11:20] – The main prompt: Why do you care about how others live?
• [13:45] – Religion & the roots of judgment in personal history
• [18:46] – Exploring judgment and jealousy as signals for self-examination
• [28:50] – The Emma Grede/working mom versus trad wife dichotomy
• [34:29] – Conspiracy theory: Are we being manipulated to be divided?
• [36:20] – The consistency of why we judge over who we judge
• [44:30] – Why judgment leads to unhappiness and self-criticism
• [46:50] – Rachel’s call to live and let live
• [48:10] – The importance of pausing and reflecting before judging/commenting

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Closing Reflections

Rachel leaves listeners with a powerful nudge toward acceptance and introspection, reminding us that:

• Judgment rarely leads to happiness.
• Our harshest judgments of others mirror the way we treat ourselves.
• True contentment comes from living our own lives authentically and compassionately, instead of comparing or condemning others.

Final encouragement:

“Whatever you want to do with your life, I support you. And because I support you in your choices, so long as you’re not hurting anybody else, we should all aim to offer that to each other.”
— Rachel Hollis (49:20)

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For more episodes, inspiration, and tactical life advice, visit [The Rachel Hollis Podcast].

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Rachel Hollis]

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[Rachel Hollis]

I have a potentially controversial opinion that I want to talk about with y' all today. It shouldn't be controversial on the surface, but if we unpack this topic, I I think you'll find that this is one of the most talked about conversations on the Internet. Or maybe I'm going to even go so far as to say one of the most talked about conversations in the history of society, which is what a woman chooses to do with her time. All right, let me unpack this for a second and I'll start with this statement. I support you. I support you if you want to be a trad wife. I support you if you want to wear an apron and you want to make your bread from scratch and you want to stay home with your babies and have dinner waiting for your husband when he gets home. I also support you if you want to build a billion dollar business and never get married and never have kids, I support you. If you want to have 10 kids, I support you. If you don't want to have a partner if you're not interested in dudes. I mean, who can blame you for that? They're sometimes the worst. I support you if you want to homeschool. I think you are one of God's chosen few if you have the patience to homeschool your kids. And I support you in that. I support you if you feel like it's the right choice to send your children to boarding school, I support you. If you get Botox, I support you. If you want to be completely natural and you let your armpit hair grow longer than a Chia Pet. Okay, I support you. If you want to be married for the next 50 years, I support you. If you need to get a divorce, I support you getting to live life on your terms. And for sure, this is a controversial opinion to have because I guarantee I just listed out something that you're like, oh, yeah, I also support that. And I maybe said something that rubbed you a little raw, that you felt weird about where you were. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I don't know how I feel about that thing. This entire conversation came to me because I listened to an interview with Nara Smith. All right, let me tell you my story, and then we're gonna unfold a whole conversation about people and how they live their lives and what you think about it. And I promise it's gonna wrap around to be a really good lesson to teach you something about yourself if you're willing to have this conversation with me. But let's start with this morning. I was going out to the gym, and it's summertime. And if you know anything about me and my family, you know that means Body Beautiful. It's a summertime thing we do where we get in really good shape in the summer. As much as I'm always telling you guys that, you know, my goal for my workouts is 30 minutes in, I'm done. I want to get in, I want to get out. I want to get on with life. During Body Beautiful, we do it a little harder. Okay. And my workouts now are an hour. I'm also training for a half marathon that I'm doing with my boys. Because of that, it just means that I'm spending a lot more time working out, which means I'm spending a lot more time listening to music. And sometimes when you're doing it too much, the music, it doesn't matter what playlist you go to. You just kind of. I've heard it all. So today I was like, I really need something new. I'm gonna listen to a podcast and every once in a while I will listen to Call Her Daddy. To be fair, I don't know a lot of people who are guests on that show. Makes me feel very old. That's fine. I don't think I'm the target demographic, but I'll sort of scroll through and I'll see if there's anyone. Because I do think Alex does fantastic interviews. She's really good at interviewing people and she gets them to talk about stuff they don't normally talk about. So I, I do like her as an interviewer and I'll scroll through and if I know someone' I'll give it a go. And I saw Nara Smith was one of her recent interviews and I thought, oh, that's interesting. I know her vaguely. Okay, here's what I knew about Nara Smith before this interview. I know that she's really pretty. I know that she wears nice clothes. And in my brain I was like. And I think that she is a fluent. Like, I think she's sort of a luxury influencer. And the title of this podcast episode was Don't Call Me a Trad Wife. And I was like, oh, well, that's interesting. That's a really interesting thing because I do think of her as kind of like part of that world. So I'm going to listen to this interview now. Really quick, before I get into the interview and my thoughts and my feelings and all of it, just in case you are someone who does not care one lick about social media. I love that for you. And you're not really on the Internet and you don't know what I mean by trad wife. The quote unquote, trad wife is shorthand for traditional wife. And Google tells me that it is a woman who chooses to live a lifestyle centered on ultra traditional gender roles and marriage dynamics. The things that I've seen online are women who they're really into, like taking care of the house, taking care of the kids. They cook things from scratch. They're really into cleaning. It's also, I think oftentimes, like culturally, maybe very old school thinking of like submitting to your husband and your husband's the leader of the home. And there's all sorts of things and there's lots of opinions about people who identify with this term. There's also a ton of content of people who would maybe identify with this term and then are showing you what that life looks like. I think most famously, you've got Ballerina farms whose name I can't think of right now, which shows you how cool I am in terms of social awareness. And then Nara Smith. Those are the two that I know really well. I'm sure there are thousands of others. And if we're being honest, probably Martha Stewart, like the og you know, I'm gonna. I don't know that Martha Stewart was ever really into, like, submitting to her husband. If you've ever watched the documentary, you'll agree, but definitely was the original domestic. Like, take care of your home. Really invest in cooking things from scratch. How are cleaning really investing in it? So that's just like, there are things that people think are great about it. There are things that people think are terrible about it. We're not talking about your opinion of it just yet. I am just explaining what it is for people who don't know. And I would like to add another layer of this and say the two women that I just mentioned, I've seen a little bit of Nar Smith's content and ballerina farms. I've seen a lot of their content's real pretty. Okay, that, that is what it is. Romanticizing what it looks like to, like, make beautiful dishes from scratch and like ballerina farms. Like, she's always in, like, beautiful, like, linen dresses and she's making butter and she's making sourdough. And I think that these things really had an explosion during the pandemic. And everyone was on tick tock and we were all trying to make sourdough starters. And I think it became really popular. Okay, so that's just broad overview of what it is. If you love it, if you hate it. We're just catching up our friends who are listening who are not familiar. All right, so I go to listen to this interview with Nara Smith, and here are some things that I am taking away from my conversation. And I would challenge you, whatever you think of this person, I would challenge you to go listen to this interview. Because I didn't have a very strong opinion of her before. I found her incredibly intelligent, emotionally intelligent, well spoken. I found her really honest. I honestly, I was super impressed. And I will tell you what, towards the end of that interview, you guys maybe know this already, but towards the end of the interview, Alex is like, how old are you? And the way my jaw literally hit my floor when this girl said she was 24 years old. Now I am. Yes. She has four kids. She's been married for a long time. She's 24 years old. I also got married young. I had babies young. Like, I get it. My jaw hit the floor. Not because of what she's done at her age, but because of how well spoken she was. Like, she's a very old soul. I found her very wise for 24. Take with that what you will, but at one point in the conversation, they are talking about the Internet calling her trad wife. They're talking about what it looks like to become well known for something and kind of leaning into what's working as a business model. Super fascinating, guys. But my bigger question, in listening to this and hearing about what it's like for her to, you know, have an online platform and have people who have their opinions of her, and I know there was stuff with ballerina farms, there was like that really nasty article that someone wrote. And, and I know there's a lot of people who dislike the two women I'm talking about. And I know there's a lot of people who hate the term trad wife and hate the idea of that and that. It sets us back and it does all of these things. And this is what I actually want to talk about today. Why do you care? Why do you care? Because, look, if you completely disagree with the way somebody lives their life, you completely disagree with the fact that these women have a different way of living than you do. Right? You don't have to do it. You don't have to live like that. Like there are millions of people, billions of people who are living in completely different ways than you are. What you actually need to be asking yourself is, what is it about this specific person that is pissing you off so much? I feel a little like incensed by this. I think because I grew up in an incredibly religious environment. I grew up in a. In a very conservative religious environment and very much was taught that, you know, you have to be like this and if you're not like this, you're going to go to hell. And everybody out there who's not living the way we're living, they're going to go to hell. And I understand, I understood very quickly after leaving my parents home that that was not a philosophy that I wanted for my life. That was not the way that I wanted to live. And I don't agree with that. I think that if you value being in a culture where we have freedom, you have to allow freedom to everybody, not just the people who express their freedom the way you do. So I find this really interesting because most of the people that I see who are frustrated with the trad wife phenomenon are people who I would think of as very liberal. They are the kind of people who are like, everybody should be allowed to do what they do and be who they are and try new stuff and change all these things. But at the same time, those are the people who are frustrated about someone choosing a more traditional lifestyle. It's so wild. And I think the reason this one kind of, like, bubbles up for me is because what it feels like to me is there's something about the way these women are choosing to live their lives and choosing to show it, right, they're showing it online that makes, I think, specifically other women feel somehow threatened. And it reminds me of religious cultures where they get very upset if someone is not making the same religious choices as they are, as if their choice somehow affects your religion. This is such a wild thing that we used to see inside of the church that people would get really frustrated, especially, like, older members of the congregation would get really frustrated with anyone being different from them. And I always thought this was so wild because I'm like, but if your relationship with God that you're working so hard to cultivate, your relationship with your maker, with your whatever you are choosing to devote yourself to, if it's solid, then no one else's choices can touch your relationship with something divine.

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[Rachel Hollis]

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If for some reason you don't like your therapist, you can change really easily. You're in good hands. See the reviews, see what stands out. And see if better help is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com Rach that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Rach I know I'm going down a little bit of a rabbit hole here, but it was always something that I found so crazy. Like, for instance, I grew up in Evangelical Christian church in the 80s, okay? So I grew up in a culture where lots of things that would be more accepted today were absolutely deemed sinful. And people used to get so up in arms, and they'd be so, you know, we've got to stop this, and we've got to do that. I'm specifically thinking of the way the church treated people who are gay. And they were so upset by it. So upset by people who are gay. And it's like, why are you even paying attention to it, Mima? Like, why are you. Why do you. Why are you looking you. They are not even in your town. They're nowhere near you. Why are you so upset about it? Isn't this practice of living this life or practicing your faith, isn't this something that is supposed to exist between you and. And your God? What that person's choosing to do over in West Hollywood, meanwhile, that has nothing to do with you. But you're so frustrated and you're so upset. And that is the bigger question is like, I'm confused about women who want all women to have the right to be who they are and do what they want to do, unless it's in opposition of what you're doing. Like, you're like, yeah, I want to, like, run a Fortune 500 company. Hell, yeah. Like, women are amazing. And then there's this woman over here who's like, oh, I want to stay at home and raise my kids and make sourdough. And then the other one, like, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Like, there's something really interesting about this. And for the record, I'm not defending either side. I think that inside of every single culture, there are things that are great and there are things that are really destructive. And I think that some of the issues with a more traditional way of being is that it can oppress women and it can push them into boxes, and it can. Yes, that's true. But the opposite side, side of the fence, that has its weeds as well. Okay? There's good stuff in both areas. There's bad stuff in both areas. I'm not here to debate the right choice for your life. I'm here to ask why are you so frustrated when someone's life choice is different than your own? Okay. I'm here to ask why the choices of a woman you have never met has the power to piss you off so much. Here is the real question, and this is true. If you are a woman, if you are a man, if you're angry about trad wives, if you never heard of them before, if you have ever seen someone living a certain way on the Internet. Okay, I want everybody listening to this to just question for a second. Have you ever seen someone on the Internet living in a way, doing a thing, and you're. It got your hackles up. It may. You were like, immediately like, no, something's wrong here. And I'm not talking. Please don't be like, yes, I one time saw this woman kicking puppies. Girl, we're not. I'm not talking about that person's evil. Don't worry about Cruella for this conversation. I am talking about someone who's actually not doing anything that's on the surface evil. It's just something that really ticked you off. Okay, I want everyone to think of this. If you're a guy, if you're a girl, whoever you are, just think of some person you've seen on the Internet that did something that isn't actually that bad on the surface, but you felt big, strong feelings about. Okay, you got it? Now here's my question. What does your judgment reveal about you? Oh, okay, okay. Let's unpack this. Let's unpack this, because judgment and jealousy. I know we don't know. We don't want to admit any part of that, but just stick with me for a second. The two J words, judgment and jealousy, are a really strong signal. And before I go even deeper, let me take a little sidestep over here and prove a point real quick. Think of a time in your life where you were so happy. Guys, it could be for a day. Okay? This doesn't have to be like, well, all of 96, I was really thriving. No, no, no. Like, think of just anytime something happened, you got a new job, you were in love for the first time. You know, you moved into a new apartment. Like, just something great was happening, and you felt so pumped. Okay? You're, like, really happy. Okay, everyone think of a memory. Get something going in that feeling of joy and happiness. And, like, wow, things are really going my way in that vibration. Were you Judging anyone in that vibration. Were you jealous of anyone? Absolutely not. Because when your vibration is at a level of abundance, when you're like, wow, this is really great, like life's going really, I feel really good. Like things are great when you're in that vibration. You can't even see people to judge. You're like free to be you and me. You go do your thing, I'm going to be over here doing my thing. And we're all okay. We only have the ability to judge. We only have that deeper seated jealousy that only happens when something is off with us vibrationally. And it doesn't mean that you want to be them. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is let's unpack why this is such an issue for you. Because if you can understand why this is an issue for you, you can see a massive unlock for some real happiness and some real contentment and some real evolution in your own life. Okay? So think of this person. Let's go back to this person that you thought of when I said, have you ever seen someone and you judge them? Let's, let's just unpack this together for a second. What is underneath that feeling? So let's go with Trad Wife because this is how we started our conversation. If you have ever seen, let's say Anara Smith or, you know, the one who comes up on my YouTube shorts sometimes is, is her name something Bloom? She's like super duper crazy wealthy and she's really into Van Cleef as far as I can tell. And she's just, there's so much. She just is like, I, I think it's a really interesting content because I'm like, wow, I've never seen someone with this much money before. This is actually crazy. But if you see someone living life where they're showing you content, and I hope that you're intelligent enough to understand that it is content. This is not their real life. This is not the fullness of who they are as a person. You're not seeing into their soul. You don't know what's really going on for them. You're seeing a 90 second clip, right? But either way, I want you to think of the person that you saw. Let's think of Trad Wife as an example. And what is it about that that pisses you off? If you had had a truth serum and you had to be totally honest, even though, like, you would never want to admit this to anybody. It's just me and you here. No one's gonna know. What is it about that that upsets you so much? And if you've never asked yourself those questions, it's worth pondering. Are you maybe tired of the rat race? Maybe you see a trad wife and she's over there. God, I wish I could remember. I'm going to look up Ballerina Farms. Hannah. There it is. Hannah Nealman. Okay, so you see Hannah in her linen dress making butter on her farm.

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[Rachel Hollis]

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[Rachel Hollis]

what is it about that picture that is frustrating to you? Is it the farm? Is it the simplicity? Is it how calm she is with her kids? Is it making think? Do you wish that you had more time? Do you resent that you are so busy that you can't go take on a random hobby? Do you secretly wish that your life was slower? Do you secretly wish that you had a family? Do you secretly wish. By the way, the flip of this is true. Let's look at completely opposite direction. Let's look at Emma Greed. Emma Greed. If you don't follow, she has a fabulous podcast. If you are a woman in business and you're not listening to Aspire, you're really missing out on some great conversations. Emma Greed is a very successful female entrepreneur. She's, you know, part owner of Skims, she's part owner of Good American. She's a founder of these companies if I'm not mistaken. Super crazy successful, has an amazing podcast, is so stunning, is so beautiful. It's hurts my feelings how pretty she is. Pretty successful, all of the things. She had a book come out a couple months ago and she did an interview. I don't remember what newspaper it was, but she did an interview with a big newspaper like the Washington Post or the New York Times, something big like that. And right before her book came out and this reporter had interviewed her for the longest time and it's all about this success, she's had insane success in business. She's, like, really well respected. She's, you know, on the board of the 15% pledge. She's, like, just done really cool stuff. Okay. And the headline of this big editorial piece about Emma Greed the day before her book comes out was this. It was something along the lines of, this woman says 20 minutes a day with her kids is enough. And the reporter had taken a comment that Emma made about that she believed as a working mother. She has four kids, and she believes as a working mother that the quality of the time with her kids was more important than the quantity of her time. Something I really appreciate about her is how much she honestly talks about having nannies and having help and how she can't do it all and how the judgment for her husband doesn't show up at all. But people are very judgy of her, of all the accomplishments that this woman has and all the things that she's done. And this book that she's writing. And the headline is, this woman says 20 minutes a day with her kids is enough. In what was probably a very long interview, they took one line and made that the story about how she's a crappy mom. For clarity, Emma wasn't writing a book about motherhood. She was writing a book about business and career. But the narrative is like, how can we make this woman bad and wrong? And I guarantee there are people who shame Emma for the same reasons that there are people who are shaming Hannah. And I am speaking as someone who has been, oh, so shamed by the Internet for the last decade. And what I come back to is like, what is it about the people who are frustrating you, who are pissing you off, who you don't like that you continue to follow and you continue to look at their stuff and you continue to wonder what they're up to? Babe, look at what is going on. If you can actually be honest with yourself and understand what is underneath that, it really will help you figure out how you can be happier with the life that you have. And I promise you, you being happier with the life that you have means that you will not even notice. People to judge. And can I go one more level on this? Can I be a little bit more like conspiracy theory on this? I think that we will look back on this time period in human history, particularly here in America. I'm gonna go here. I'm gonna say it. I think we will look back on this time period, and we will understand that we were being manipulated to be divided I really believe this to my core. I think when you step back and see how popular it has become to be divided and to be divisive and to immediately go to the comment section to tear someone apart, it's like a trend. It's. And everyone thinks it's just like this cute little thing that we're doing. You are being manipulated. I really think that we're going to look back and be like, oh, this was all like we were being taught to hate each other. We were being taught for it to be this extreme. We were being taught to not want each other to thrive. It's like, have you ever heard that analogy of a bunch of like crabs or lobsters all in a pot and they like, one of them will try and escape and the other crustaceans will like grab it and hold it down. Like they don't try and escape. They just try and keep other crabs from escaping. It's so jacked. I think we're being manipulated. That's my conspiracy theory. We don't have to get into that today. I care more that you understand that there's a message in here. Here's what's crazy, here's what will blow your mind. The person that you judge, over time, that person will change. The person that you were judging in high school is different than the person that you were judging in your early 20s is different than the person that you're judging right now. The person that you are judging changes. The reason that you are judging them does not. The mechanism for why you are judging doesn't change. Here is my big headline of this conversation today. The strongest reactions that you have are information and these strong reactions. This doesn't have to be people that you don't know on the Internet. This could be people in your real life. This could be your sister in law. This could be your best friend that you secretly are judging for something. This could be your partner, like your partner, the love of your life. Like you are judging your wife and she seems to always have everything together and you're struggling so hard since you had the baby and like she's over there like crushing it and she's doing all these things and her body looks amazing and like you're secretly feeling resentful. You're secretly feeling like there's information in this. You guys. This applies to everything that you judge. This applies to trad wives, working moms, women who decide not to have kids. This applies to GLP1s. This applies to plastic surgery, to homeschooling, to Botox, to getting Divorced, to staying married, to having 10 kids, to having no kids. This applies to people who are rich. This applies to people who are frugal. This applies to women who are dressing Sexy in their 50s and women who are dressing modestly at 22. This applies to everything. When did another woman's choice become a referendum on how you are living your life? I think that it became more and more popular to judge other women online because by judging other women online, you get to virtue signal who you are. When you say, I don't like this person, this person's doing this thing, that's wrong, this is this, and that is that. When you do that in the comment section very publicly, you are telling other people who you are. And I think that that became way more popular than actually living a life with virtue and with values that really matter to you. I can disagree with the way that you live your life and the choices that you make and still respect your right to make those choices. That's what it is to live with freedom. Going back to this point and going back to this idea, the next time that you feel that flare of judgment or that flare of irritation towards someone that you're seeing online, please don't comment. You're better than that. Like, who is actively commenting hateful things on social media? I really cannot wrap my mind around it. And as someone that has had so many hateful comments in my comment section over the last decade, I used to. I mean, I went through, like, every stage of grief to try and manage what that feels like. You can't fathom, by the way, what it feels like unless you've been in it and it's awful. Just in case you are someone who thinks, oh, well, the person who's posting this, you know, they have a public life, so they asked for this. No, they didn't. They didn't ask for this. And if you're like, oh, it's okay, they'll never see this, babe. I promise that's the only comment they're gonna remember. It took me a really long time to get to the place where I could understand that I would never actively seek out a friendship with the kind of person who would go leave hateful comments on social media, like, for any reason. Like, I just would never actively want to be friends with someone like that. And if I would never actively want to be friends with someone like that, then I'm never going to respect what you're saying. I am totally fine with disagreement. I am not okay with people who are very intentionally just being jerks. And the Internet is filled with them. And if you have. I don't think it. I can't even imagine that you guys would be the kind of people who would do this. But if you have the instinct or even if it sort of bubbles up inside you, but you're not gonna. You. You would never send it. But you do think the snarky thing or the rude thing, just pause for two seconds and ask, why does this bother me? What is the story that I am making up about her or about him? What does the way they are living their life say about mine? Here's one. Is there something that this person has that I secretly want? Is there something that they are choosing? This is a big one. Is there something that they are choosing that I have been taught that I am not allowed to choose? I actually think that underneath a lot of the judgment is a group of people who were told that to be successful or to be good or to be whatever, that they had to live life a certain way. Whether you're ultra conservative or super liberal, doesn't matter. On both sides of that fence are people who have been taught that if I'm going to be successful at being a human being, I got to do it this way. And when they see someone experiencing success, even if that success just seems like, oh, wow, that person seems pretty happy, and it causes this visceral response in you. I think that that's more about, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm playing by the rules. You're not playing by the rules. And. And you're still winning. When I think of those old women that I grew up with in church who were very judgmental, I think that that was the biggest issue. I think that they were going, wait a minute, I was told that I had to live life this way or I was a bad girl. You're doing something and you're succeeding. This is the same, I think, for when we came into this culture of women working outside the home for the first time in these massive waves. And then you had all of these women who were choosing to stay at home, and then there were women who were choosing to work. And if you got kids, if you are a woman and you have kids, you know, doesn't matter if you're a stay at home mama or a working mama, you know that that judgment is just as strong as ever. Moms judge other moms so harshly. They really do. And like, if you're a working mom, if you're a stay at home mom, like, everybody's judging everybody else and it's like, wait a minute. I'm following the rules. You're not following the rules. Why are you having success? I think that one of the reasons my divorce was so. Oh, my. People were so pissed off about that. So upset. So just horrifically cruel to me online when I got divorced. Also understand that I didn't talk a lot about it publicly, so people didn't understand my story or what we had lived through as a family or why I made that choice. I feel like there's more understanding now. I feel like time has passed and people maybe have a better understanding of why. But in the moment, it's, like, such a crazy thing. Why would. Like, respectfully, I love you guys, and I'm grateful that you are part of my community, but there were so many women who were so upset that I was getting divorced, and none of those women knew me. They did not know me. And they were so upset by it that they, like, wrote blog posts and did podcasts and did YouTube videos and just, like, all of these things about what a terrible person I was. By the way, not a piece of information about the guy, because it's never the guy. It's always the woman. Same with Trad Wives. Same with Working Mom. Same with Emma Greed. Same with Hannah Nealman. Same with Nara Smith. It's always beating up women. But what I think, in retrospect, what I think was most upsetting to so many of those women is that I was breaking the rule. I think that most of those women, just like me, were raised in very religious homes that told them that the man was always right and that you can never leave a marriage. And it is until death do us part. And you are a bad girl, and you are a sinner if you choose different. And I think that they could not handle the fact that I was breaking a rule that secretly, many of them also wished that they could leave unhealthy marriages. That's what I think. But we're not ready for that conversation even in 2026. So let's land this plane and wrap it back around to just a nudge in the direction of acceptance. Really, truly, y'. All, if you are going through your life judging other people, I freaking promise you two things. Number one, people who are judgmental are never going to live truly happy lives. Period. Period. I don't care. I don't care if you tell yourself you're happy, you're thriving or whatever. No, if you are actively judging other people, you will never be truly happy. You won't. And here's why. Number Two, because people who judge other people are secretly the hardest on themselves. If you are judging and critical of other people, there is no one that you are meaner to than yourself. And because of that, you will never be able to find happiness and joy. What they are doing with their life if they are not hurting you, if they are not hurting anybody else, Babe, let them wear their apron. Let them wear. Let them make their sourdough. Let them chase a billion dollars. Let them. Who cares, man? Literally, who cares what someone else is doing? If you have that much time to spend focusing on other people's lives on the Internet and thinking about what other people are doing on the Internet, I'm going to tell you right now, as your coach and your big sister, you're not working on your own dreams enough. If you have this much time to judge her life, you are not working on your own enough. And that is the distraction that no one wants to hold space for. If I'm over here looking at her outfits and judging her for making, you know, cereal from scratch, then I don't have to think about the fact that I'm dating a loser and I need to have a hard conversation with him, but I don't want to. So I'll just go over here and scroll for the next three hours. Look, you don't have to face the truth. You don't. There is a whole world. There was a whole industrial media complex whose entire job is to distract you from the life that you would actually love to be living. There is so much working against you, just like being here in your real life, doing things that bring you joy, trying to figure out who the heck you are, taking better care of yourself, going on a walk, petting puppies, making new friends, playing pickleball. There's just like a whole machine whose job it is to distract you from that. And one of the strongest tools that that machine has is your anger. It's your judgment. It's you getting fired up over what someone's doing on the Internet. Guys, most of the content that you are going to see, it's. It's tv, it's entertainment. If it can help you shut your brain off. If you get to watch videos about crafts or puppies or parakeets or whatever, and it makes you happy, keep scrolling. But if you are using that little computer in your pocket to get your emotions all fired up to go and judge people, to write nasty comments, this doesn't lead anywhere. Good. I hope that I've given you a little food for thought today. Whatever you want to do with your life. I support you and because I support you in your choices, so long as you're not hurting anybody else, we should all aim to offer that to each other. All right, I'll be back soon with more conversations. Until then, as always, I love you and I'm rooting for you. The rachel hollis podcast is produced by me, rachel hollis. It's edited by andrew weller and jack noble.

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