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British Watchmakers Day In Review: Gimlets Galore, the Schofield Obscura, and Much, Much, More!
00:56:09
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood jeweler, Aloma Joseph, the friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nuts, dialing in all the way from Dresden, where he just landed after coming back from the British Watchmakers Day to 2025 in London that he had attended with Scarlet Baker, our humble rambler. And I unfortunately had to miss it again. So welcome Rob, and I'm super curious to hear how it was.
- [00:39]
B
All right, mate. It's good to be back finally back in Dresden after six, seven weeks on the road again. It's been, it's been a long stretch since I've been here talking to you from my office, but I'm glad to be home with many fond memories of the British Watchmakers Day Round 2. You really are unfortunate to have missed it two years in a row. You have to come out next year, right?
- [00:58]
A
I really, really have to make it. The problem is they always do it on a Saturday. That's annoying. It's daytime, so evenings late I can make. Because our different Pietro Tomah of the limited edition are celebrating their 10th anniversary with a very cool event in London as well. And that's going to be a Saturday as well, I believe in September, but that's going to run the whole day. So I urge the organization of British Watchmakers to make it longer and please, please make it two days.
- [01:30]
B
Yeah, this is something that came up frequently in conversations we had around the fair, whether it should be bigger, whether it should be a weekend. Basically most of these conversations reside from the obvious fact that it sold out so quickly and there were so many people struggling and, and oftentimes failing to get tickets to attend either the morning or the afternoon session, which is how it works. But to be fair, the organizers are already pulling together a lot of disparate threads and not many brands want to do a full weekend event. It's a huge undertaking. It's exhausting. It's non stop, flat out. The location is brilliant and so we, I don't think really changing the location to make for more space would be wise. I honestly think you're not going to find change to format anytime soon. And it's on a Saturday, obviously, because you can't have a daytime event for the public. Midweek doesn't make any sense. So maybe they could do like one day for you, especially on like a Thursday and then they could have a day off and relax and then they could come back and do the real thing proper on Saturday. How does that sound?
- [02:38]
A
Sounds awesome. But again, me being on the Outside suffering from fomo. So Saturday night I saw the pictures and a big kudos to the organization for putting up our logo again as a media partner. So that what made me very proud. And shame on you because you were so busy. You didn't do videos, live streams or pictures. I had to take George Bamford's image to put it up on my Instagram.
- [03:06]
B
You're just too impatient. I did a picture of me standing right next to it, but you couldn't wait.
- [03:10]
A
No, I am very impatient. You're. You're very, very, very right. So on the outside I want, I want to ask you some questions. So what I love and maybe for our dear listeners that are not so much aware of what this is, scroll back, you'll find at least 1, 2, 3 episodes about this topic. The British Watch and Clock Makers alliance is founded by Mike Franz, the co founder of Christopher Ward and Roger Smith of course. And this is a non profit organization with the sole aim to promote the British watchmakers and clock makers, of course. So this day is an physical manifestation of this association. What, what is the requirement to be there? Rob, you need to do something with watchmaking in the uk because I also saw that our difference from Time and Tide are there, were they there as a retailer or only watch brands and clock makers invited?
- [04:15]
B
Well, you have to be part of the alliance and that means that you have to have some base in the uk. It's no good to, you know, have a UK supplier or something like that. But Time and Tide now of course have their very well thought of studio on Great Portland street, just a few yards from Oxford Circus tube station if you ever want to pay them a visit, is it? They are not an indelible part of the fabric of watchmaking culture in Britain. So they are obviously there. They had the nice little stand, they were selling some watch cases and some of the old NY magazines that they did from previous years and the whole team was there obviously providing coverage and getting to know the brands because that's really what these events are about for the journalists. It's talking, networking, seeing new products, getting a better feel for what people are trying to do in an environment that is now one of the most up and coming, I would say, in the watch industry. The British scene has exploded in the last few years and if you go on the website, which is british watchmakers.com you will see if you go on to the Meet the Makers tab, that There are over 100 brands associated with the alliance now. And that's why this event is so Sought after. So packed and honestly so enriching to visit.
- [05:27]
A
Amazing to hear. It's lovely. The biggest one missing used to be Bremon. I know that Davide Serrato corrected that wrong. In my humble opinion, it's a wrong that is corrected because they are one of the flag carriers of the British Watchmaker from day one. So that was amazing. And what I also love about this organization in these events, the, the passion. But also the vast quantity of limited editions that were made for the event. And I believe all of them were only sold at the event. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rob.
- [06:10]
B
Yeah, I believe that's the case. There was a huge, huge furor surrounding the release of many of them. But most notably, of course, the widely covered gimlet from Fears and Studio Underdog. This two British brand team up that saw some people queuing up outside Lindley hall as early as 4:30am and that is no word of a lie. Yeah, it was insane. It was like a rock concert.
- [06:36]
A
That's amazing. That reminds me the sneaker days where there was no copying online, you had to queue up for your retailer. And the last thing we last time we've seen that in the watch industry was obviously for the moon swatches. So that's amazing to hear. And if I counted correctly, there were 27 brands participating with watches. Scarlett. And you actually recorded a very fun episode two back from this one, if I'm not wrong. And you guys discussed what excited you? Me, myself, I loved the two Fears watches. Both of them the sterling silver Brunswick jump out Edwardian edition, only 10. They teamed up with Studio Underdog for a very cool watch. And the funny thing is you went wrong on the price. But I was also in shock initially when I saw £1,000 for that watch. Do you know if all the watches, all the other 25 were sold out? I know our dear friend Schofield sold out because I saw a mailing in my inbox that he did. Well, what is the feedback being there on the ground, Rob?
- [07:52]
B
Right, so the number you're quoting there is the number of special editions that were made for this event, not the number of brands that participated in the event, Right?
- [08:02]
A
Correct. Correct is only those brands that made a edition for the fair. And, and to, to add on to that, I was very surprised that the king of customization, George Manford, did not create a watch for this event.
- [08:18]
B
That is, that is amusing. Yeah. But he did have a great stand with some wonderful T shirts and incredible tote bags that were given away with a purchase. So he Was doing a lot of good business there. And obviously everyone loves to see George all the time. So maybe next year he'll throw in a special edition to the mix as well. So I count 28 in total. I think the 27 brands probably is something to do with Fears being a double up because they were there with Studio Underdog as well, of course. So there's 28 editions from 27 brands in total. I do not believe they all sold out. No, I don't think everything went. Some of them were from smaller brands with slightly higher volumes than one would maybe expect to shift. But that's not to say that they weren't absolutely exceptional pieces. And really worthwhile additions. Not to the brand's catalog, but also to watchmaking on mass. One of those, and I don't know if it's sold out or not, but this was the bowcroft x Penfold 75 pieces. That was a beautiful watch from an up and coming brand that's doing pretty well. It's been around a few years now and it's got. It seems to got its feet under the table with a nice product at a good price point. This one, Gorgeous. Looks very much like something you would find in the, I think early 90s. It reminds me of an old Tissot 2 timer that I have and it was lovely on the wrist. Really good finishing for the price point. Still, 75 pieces might have been a little high because bear in mind, nearly everybody that went to that event would have bought a Studio Underdog Fears if they'd been far enough up in the queue. 200 pieces at a thousand pounds a throw for what is effectively a fierce Brunswick with Studio Underdogs top level dial technology inside it with a Swiss hand wound movement as well, no less. That obviously took the attention away a little bit from some of the other pieces that might have sold better had it not been there. But people were selling well. Good to see some of the more creative pieces like that. And like the Scofields selling very well. You know, Giles could have sold even more than the pieces that he did, but unfortunately had a bit of a component supply issue. So he had to limit the number of available models more strictly the need of light. But it was absolutely flying. People were falling over it. But for me, the best thing that Schofield had on show over this event was obviously the Obscura, which is Giles's dream watch that he'd been working on for years and dreaming of bringing to market ever since he started Schofield over a decade ago now. And to see it in real life has me wondering what I need to sell to buy it. Now it's about 8,000 ish excluding VAT, so maybe around, yeah, 9 to 10 when all's said and done. But honestly it looks like nothing else. It looks just hewn from heaven. It's gorgeous. Absolutely brilliant. The colors are superb. People couldn't believe the strange little Easter eggs that he'd fitted in there with the glowing crown and the white daytime, purple, nighttime emission loom on the dial. All the little treats that hidden all over it and that. I don't know how to describe it but cuboid Damascus case is just something else. So that was amazing. There are I believe only 7 of those left in the world. There was a limited run of, well let's see, it's normally 29 pieces so it's selling pretty well for the most expensive Schofield to be released since the Black Lamp. But if you haven't seen it yet, go along to Schofield Watch company's website and check it out because the Obscura is not something to sleep on.
- [11:51]
A
I love that watch that you started off with the Penfold and it reminds me a bit of the style. So you know how much I like that. That's very cool. And, and, and what I love about the alliance and this day there are a few brands that are definitely not on my radar. Beaucroft, I've heard about them. But because of this event I started browsing their website. I didn't know they were in Cambridge. I wanted to ask you also, if I Look at all 28 watches, I counted four cushion shaped cases, could we say that this is not per se an exclusive British design but in the neo phase of things Are the British brands claiming this a bit? Rob, could we state that?
- [12:44]
B
I think it's a tough statement to make with any degree of surety but I think that there is a sense that a cushion shaped case has a very English vibe. Especially at the diameters that we're talking here. Like modern day diameters are obviously bigger than the heyday of British watch case making which probably was the glory days of Denison. The 38 millimeter studio underdog fierce Case wears a dream. It's absolutely gorgeous. It's extremely comfortable on the wrist. The softer brushed finishing also reduces the visual impact on the wrist. Then you've got The Fierce Brunswick 40.5 Jump Hour Edwardian Edition, 10 pieces. That is a stunner. In my opinion. That's actually probably the best fears ever. So sterling silver case also extremely In English, a white lacquer dial with very crisp Edwardian style print. It sold out. Not surprising. And that was a 5,000, maybe £350 watch. So it's not an easy one to sell on site. You know, that's a lot of money to hand over a table during an event, but it deserved it. It was an absolute peach. I think that if you look back into English watchmaking history, you will find many, many, many small cushion shaped cases and I would not be sorry to see them make a resurgence on the British scene and for us to claim it as our own, as it were. So I think the other two you're referring to the Duckworth Presstex Prestex N2 25 pieces. It's a lovely case for me that gold hands, blue numerals red 12 offset sub seconds was a bit of a lot for the case. I would have preferred maybe something a little simpler, but it did go down very well with visitors to the event. And then we have the Kokota Pioneer special edition in lapis blue, a very affordable 50 piece special edition from the guys behind the Watch Gecko website, of course. Or maybe we should say the people behind the Gekota brand are behind the Watch Gecko website. Whichever way around you want to spin it. But that is a very nice watch. It's quite modern, it has a more sporty feel to it than the other three cushion shaped cases available, but still feeds into that esthetic canon quite nicely.
- [15:00]
A
Yeah, thank you for that. Very interesting to scroll back like that and to see similarities and overlap. If we continue this little analysis game, what was really innovative or new? Or if we push this question further down, who is the most contemporary British watchmaker today? Or brand or model?
- [15:29]
B
Well, that is a really good question and I might have to offer a slightly cop out answer and give you a few names for different reasons. Let me think. So design wise, there's a couple that really stick out in my mind. So obviously I'm very skilled biased because I just adore everything Giles does and I think he's getting better. And I didn't think that was really possible when he started out because I thought what he'd done, actually what I thought, what he'd done with the signalman, if I'm being totally frank, even though it was my grail watch when I was a watchmaking student, is I thought he created a brilliant one hit wonder because I didn't think the platform was going to be able to sustain so many subtle innovations and tweaks and material experiments and whatnot. But what he's been able to create with that singular platform is quite remarkable. Now, of course, he has the Scofield Light, which in real life, if you hold it in your hands, is probably one of the best value watches in terms of build quality and design that you can get get for under a couple of K. I remember watching a young engineering student turning this watch head over in his hands at the stand, just marveling at the way the crown had been made. And he was like, oh, this. This hasn't been turned. This has been milled. And Giles, you could see this, you know, warm glow spread across his face. The guy. The fact this guy realized that, and he was like, oh, how could you tell? And he's like, well, this. This lip here. And, you know, this profile in here wouldn't be possible if you'd done it on a turning machine. And I thought that was quite remarkable to see and really nice to see that being appreciated, you know, because Giles, I think sometimes he needs to be reminded that it is worthwhile because he pours a lot into it and, you know, financially maybe doesn't get as much out of it as I think he deserves. He's doing all right these days, and, you know, when the rest of the Obscurus sell out, there'll be a nice bit of money in the bank to roll forward to some other crazy ideas that he's got. So that's great to see. But seeing that firsthand appreciation was lovely. Now, another brand, one of Scarlett's favorites, and for good reason. Not just because of the kindness and friendliness of Mateo behind it, but Anoma. Now, Anoma's been the talk of not just London Town, but also Geneva for the last year, ever since the watch sort of crept onto our radars. And there was a second edition announced at Time and Tide on the Thursday before the event. So a couple of weeks ago from when we were recording today, which has a black dial with, I think, three textures on it, and it's very, very nice. This, if you haven't seen it, is the. How can I describe it? Triangular pebble, I suppose, or triangular dial within a triangular pebble. It's triangles within triangles within triangles, and that's smooth and alien and organic all at once. The original dial color, which I would liken to the IWC engineer Aqua, my favorite dial color in the industry, bar none, is absolutely beautiful. The new Black is very sleek and chic, and I think that it'll have a lot of fans going forward. I think the brand has done very well with its first model. I am enthralled to see the second release though, because this is a second album that is going to be tough to write and hit the top of the charts with. Okay, who else is innovative? Well, he didn't display this year, but I did run into him in the aisles. And that's Ben Russo, the clock maker. I got a lot of time for Ben. I like what he does. I've not really had a huge passion for clocks. I love old school tower clocks and the sort of astronomical clocks that you find around historic cities in the world, especially in Europe. And I. I really do adore visiting those and walking up the towers and seeing the workings from behind. But in terms of modern clocks, I must admit, in my house I have one clock and it's a Pauline clock, Glasgow brand. Pauline sister brand of an ordain. So it's not. Not an Argos pickup, you know, there is some choice to it, but that's it. Russo makes these incredible. How do I put it? Electronic display clocks, I suppose, which are really more works of art than they are time telling devices, but they are also able to tell the time. I think that he's got a great amount of potential if he finds the right market, but he has to get those clocks in front of the right people. I suggested to him last year that you should approach hotels and try and get a contract with someone like Hyatt, you know, and have one of these in front of the elevator on every floor when you step out of the lift. Or maybe to go for art galleries or maybe this time around I said to him, having spent a lot of time in Copenhage recently, I said, you should just go to Copenhagen, go to Scandinavia. These would fly out of door in furniture shops, of which there are many on the high streets of Copenhagen and its municipalities and whatnot. So there's some real innovation there in a field that we don't spend that much time on. D Trash. Spend a lot of time talking to D Trash. They're not doing something that no other brand is doing. I mean, we've got a British version of it, you've got a Dutch version of it, Gaia, or. I don't know how you would say it in Dutch, to be honest. You know, Bernard's brand. What. How do you say it in Dutch?
- [20:41]
A
Alan, he used the official term, which is gyre. So we use that in Dutch as well.
- [20:46]
B
Okay, okay. So no, no need to try and like break my throat pronouncing. That makes a nice change. So D Trash is doing a similar Thing in that they're trying to use trash to create luxury. The watches are solidly built, but really, really, most notably, extremely accessible. They're only a few hundred pounds. It's a great initiative. They're cool, they're funky, I'd say, if you get the chance to see them in person, which is obviously the benefit of events like this because strangely enough, even though online, it's not very popular. The green, the green Lume one is the one that always sells and that seemed to bear out as truth in real life. So, yeah, I would go down and have a look at that if I were you. Innovation. Is Roger Smith innovative? Or is Roger Smith simply an incredible traditionalist? I don't know. One thing I can say about Roger Smith that is innovative is his website. It's like an art gallery. If you've not visited it, go and visit rwsmithwatches.com it really is gorgeous. It's like scrolling through a fine coffee table book or something like that. So maybe that's not the kind of innovation you were looking for, but it is something that always sticks out to me about that brand, which I would have expected, strangely, to have had a really bad website. I don't know why. I just get the feeling that when you're that good at something non digital, your digital presence is probably not going to communicate that as well as it should. So those are my top innovations at the moment, I would say. I think that there's less interesting movement work going on for the most part in Britain than there is design. I think we're great storytellers. I think the heritage of British watchmaking has enabled a lot of these brands to reignite a fire that once burned very brightly. You know, I mean, Fears is maybe the best example of that. This is a brand founded in 1846 by Nicholas Bowman, Scargill's great, great, great grandfather. Nicholas is now the fourth managing director of Fears, and I hope that was the right number of greats. Is it three grapes or four?
- [22:49]
A
Well, he's technically the sixth generation, but fourth MD because they skipped two. Something like that. It's always the number four and six.
- [23:00]
B
Right, okay. Well, whatever it is, that brand obviously has a deep heritage, based once again in Bristol. Beautiful watches, extreme visibility. But perhaps one of the things I have really come to appreciate about Fierce over the last year, over which I've got to know the team very well, having not really known any of them personally prior to that, bizarrely, is how much Fears puts back into the industry and back into also us on the Media side of things. Now, we don't take money from brands to run the podcast or to talk about them. We never have, we never will. We do like to design watches with them every so often because, well, we like designing watches and that's our way of generating some income for the Real Time show so we can build and improve constantly and bring you further behind the curtain. But I know for a fact that Nicholas has been very willing to be the first sponsor of previous podcasts, other shows, always putting money into up and coming media platforms. It's a very smart way of doing things. He creates this connection between him and these up and comers who may not all make it or may not all stay the course, but they are always connected to the Fierce brand and he's built a family and it feels like a family. I went out with him and the gang in Bristol for his birthday a few weeks ago and we were at this lovely cocktail bar having gimlets upstairs. It was a really nice little two story bar. And then we're like, okay, let's go for dinner. Now, me being me, as you know, I don't really ask questions about plans or anything like that. I just go with the flow. So like, I turned up having no idea where we're going to eat. I assumed we'd probably end up in somewhere very, very fancy, you know, silver service and five courses and blah, blah, blah. But we're like, actually, you know what, let's just go to Nando's. So we went, we went to Nando's. We had a very cheeky Nando's. We were quite late and Nando's were like, yeah, we don't really have much left. And so we just ordered everything that they had left. We said, just bring us everything, which was obviously great for them. So we had, we had more than, than enough food for the 10 of us or so. So it turned out to be a wonderful, relaxed, slightly jarring experience because of course, Nicholas was still in his full suit. You know, in fact, we all were even I was in a full suit and tie for the occasion and we had, there were ties slung over shoulders and napkins tucked into the collars all around the table. And we laughed and ate Nando's and talked about luxury watches. And I just felt like that is the vibe of the British scene that is maybe slightly juxtaposed to that seriousness and stuffiness of the Swiss scene. On occasion, of course, there are exceptions.
- [25:40]
A
Lovely. Going back to my initial question, you said Schofield, that was my number one as well. I also admire and love what he does. For me that's new Britishness, new British design. He thinks out of the box. He does everything new. If you don't know Scofield so much, definitely listen back to the episodes that we've recorded with him. This guy is crazy. He redesigns wall clocks, pens, crowns, straps, buckles. He, he. I wouldn't want to be in his mind and my mind is already one big chaos. So I love what he does. You've already mentioned Roger Smith on that end of the sp. Of course he's a tradition, but maybe the best of the best of the best. George Daniels Apprentice in the Elite of the elite with maybe fpun, but it's amazing. I want to go to the Alman and visit him. Lovely gentleman has been on the show. It shows how much he wants to give back to the community because he co founded this alliance and I understand from the website that he was or or they were present at the Watchmaker's day. Was his stand busy?
- [26:55]
B
Rob Rogers oh, of course it was busy. It was, it was 4D. I mean they didn't have a stand per se. They had like a long table. So just to explain the layout of Lindley hall, it's a horticultural center, I suppose. It's a beautiful, extremely high ceilinged, glass ceilinged building which is heaven for watch photography. I mean anyone has visited Palexpo in Geneva for watches and wonders will know the the troubles. We watch journalists experience events like this when our job is supposed to create immediate content and everything's yellow and dull and lifeless, at least at British Watchmakers that you are able to get a good wrist shot. So you walk in to this building for most people, having queued up for a mile around the block it would seem, and you walk up a small flight of stairs, you go through some big doors and then you are in the main auditorium. Beautiful wooden flooring brands lined up in rows in front of you. And to the back left of this area there is a slightly raised side area which is around 50% of the depth of the entire building and quite narrow but big enough to house in this edition of the event, two brands, Bremont, Roger Smith facing one another, some tables and chairs in the middle for people to sit and chat and discuss whatnot. It was a brilliant area this year. The flow was perfectly managed, it wasn't too cramped or crowded. Bremont had a more traditional table set up with watches laid out for people to pick up and try on etc. Etc. But Roger had a Handful of pieces. Not even a handful really. Although to be fair, I wouldn't want to hold more than one Roger Smith in one hand at any time. So I guess everyone, Roger Smith is by necessity a handful. There was maybe three pieces in glass cases and they had. Well, Roger was there. I didn't see him at the event, but I saw him in the evening at the time Tide studio after party and had a very brief chat and he had his watchmakers there. Two good mates of mine, Ed Ashby, who I trained with at the British School of Watchmaking, he was a year ahead of me, and Sean Morris, with whom I worked at Omega for a few years. Both of them moved to the Isle of Man. Years passed and have become part of the furniture at Roger Smith's workshop. So they were explaining to people the handcrafts that they, they extol and all of the techniques that they tried to perfect in the workshop. And as always, it's beautiful stuff to see in real life. It would have been nice to get hands on with it. Of course, it always would. But yeah, one understands why these things remain behind the glass. When you think about the price tag and the waiting time on ordering one of those pieces, it's just, it's insane these days.
- [29:46]
A
Talking of the pinnacle of not only British watchmaking, but maybe global, somebody that in my mind is very much almost up there are the strutters Couple. So Dr. Rebecca Strutters. I, I did not spot their name on the exhibiting list, but I'm not quite sure if they're even member of the alliance. Were they missed? And then a runner up for me is Garrick. I didn't spot them either. What do you, what can you tell about that, Rob?
- [30:21]
B
Well, that's a good question. I don't really know much, nor would I want to comment speculatively on the politics of the alliance, but there are a few notable absences. Strothers watchmaking. I mean, you could make an argument for them being. Well, they're certainly in the top three. I would say, I would say certainly, almost certainly off the top of my head, in the top two. If you. I would say Smith, Frodsham and Strothers are probably up there as the best and the Britain has to offer. And Rebecca and Craig weren't there. Neither was Frodsham, neither was Garrick as Dave, of course, Dave Brailsford, which is actually. That's an odd one now you mentioned it, because I would have thought that he would have been involved in stuff like that, but maybe he's got his, his own Plans of how to get Garrick in front of people and then an ordain, of course, was not there. And Pauline and I don't believe they're members of the alliance. But, you know, this is amazing. To think that you can have this many British brands in one place and you can name four or five obvious absentees like that is a really healthy sign for the British watchmaking industry. You can barely believe it. You go, oh yeah, look at all these great brands that we've got to talk about that were there. And then there's. There's enough really to have a. A second event. A small event, obviously, but a second event. Imagine if you had an event where Strothers, Garrick, Anodain, Paulin and Frodsham were showing. I mean, I'd go to that. I would travel for that.
- [31:53]
A
That's amazing because you're so right, it is. We really have to rack our brain and the list is already extensive of both members and let alone the people that were exhibiting. And that's why I say if I was there I would have like FOMO fever because I would want to see every table. And I don't think it's enough because you linger, you meet friends, make new friends, you want to absorb the watches, the designs and, and I, I don't think it's enough one day because just looking at all the watches, the brands made especially for the event and you are considering to buy. I mean I personally, just looking at the website, I would want to see. Alyn never held one. A pier appear. I don't even know how to spell it. Super interesting watch they made Bowcraft. We mentioned Boken never held one. Clemens never held one. I've met Neil Duckworth. Mr. Neil Duckworth. I've never held Duckworth Press watches.
- [32:57]
B
Rob, let me give you a little bit of feedback on some of those pieces that you mentioned there because you're absolutely right. Alk and I remember meeting way back when, I think it was around 2019, 2020, when I was during my second stint with a bloke to watch. I met them in England. I was really impressed for the watch for the money. The Bowcroft stuff, like I said, very similar to the Clemence stuff is extremely well made for the money. It's not going to, you know, blow your mind in terms of design. It's all very generic, very traditional cases are mostly kind of explorer esque but you know, lovely watches, really nice finishing a great product. I would say Apia now that was one of the brands with whom I spent A little more time, because what they're trying to do is, is very unusual. So as you're close to Hothenreichs in the Netherlands, I am sure you will have noticed that this is a 3D printed watch. It's very interesting watching brands trying to use 3D printing for a luxury product. I am always amazed by what 3D printing can do. And then simultaneously a bit shot to what it can't, or maybe what it isn't able to do, as well as I assume it should be able to do, based on what I've seen it do in other fields. So, for example, look at the dial on this thing. It looks incredible. Like it looks about as good as you could hope it to look. That kind of pattern, that kind of texture, blah, blah, blah. I think it's refined. It's obviously, you know, very accurately printed, but then got the case and the crown. And I get that it's an aesthetic that they're going for because I know that 3D printed. We've seen it with Hawthornex, which is like laser sharp, like ridiculously, like crisp, beautifully done. Here we've got a very mottled, very organic, I would say case carrier, almost. The lugs form this kind of bowl in which the case capsule sits. But then that crown, it's a bit odd. I get. I can't. I couldn't really wrap my head around whether this was the finished product or if it was like a, you know, a very advanced prototype, so on and so forth, because these aren't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. They're several thousand pounds and the technology is really cool and it's really interesting. But I do question sometimes whether we should try and force all types of new tech into the watchmaking sphere, whether there are some things that are just better off left to the traditional crafts. I mean, Barrel Hand has done a good job of refining the processes. Well enough to make a product that doesn't look amateurish. Absolutely not. But does it look like a luxury watch? Well, no, it looks like a futuristic experiment very well executed here. I think AP have got a ways to go before they really get to the point that they want to be at with the refinement of the tech. But it is cool. I like what they're trying to do. I'm kind of amazed and intrigued that it's happening on British shores, because it's not something that you identify the Brits with. You know, you wouldn't think of us as 3D printers, although, to be fair, I'm not sure which nations pop to mind when one mentions 3D printing. But it does seem to me something that needs a bit of work. What do you think about it? Alon?
- [36:13]
A
I think that we can dedicate a whole episode to this. We have to add the name Barrel Hand if we think innovative high end 3D printing. I agree. We can't link it to one geography, country, nation or particular maker. I guess that the one that put it on the map is Michiel Holt. I think he deserves that credit. I want to park this because we are running out of time and I have so many more questions for you just about the British Watchmakers Day.
- [36:47]
B
I have one other thing to say on 3D printing that just came back to me because I agree that Hoffman Ricks really put it on the map. But it wasn't the first one that I remember. The first one I remember to do it well enough for it to be worn on the wrist as a luxury project was Richard Hoptroft. Do you remember Richard?
- [37:05]
A
Honestly, no.
- [37:07]
B
School me. Okay, so. Well, this is 10 years ago. This is 2015 when I was writing for a blog to watch the first time around. And I actually met Richard a couple of times. It was when I was living, I guess I was in Henley and then we stayed in touch when I think we met in High Wycombe one time and he lent me one of his watches and he was using a 3D printing centering process to create the coinage case. And it wasn't perfect, it wasn't Breguet standard, it was very much Breguet style. But it was close. And he was the first one I ever knew to bring it into watchmaking seriously and to make a serious product via that method. That was 10 years ago. He was very much ahead of the curve. His watches were an acquired taste. They contained complications and movements that you do not normally find in wristwatches. So they were never destined for the mainstream. But as an experiment, as somebody that I think blazed at least a small part of the trail that a lot more brands seem to be interested in following now, Richard Hoptroft deserves a lot of credit. So anyone, Anyone ever, You know, if you've got a few minutes spare, have a Google and look at hop trough stuff because it's wild and it's wacky. It's unlike many things you'll have seen before and I think it is often overlooked. Anyway, back to British Watchmakers Day. Tell me, tell me what you want to know.
- [38:29]
A
There's so much I want to know. Just going through the specials very quickly. I'm going to continue with running down the brand. So Gekota I knew because the Watch Gecko clan are awesome and friends Golby never held them. Isotope is a brand that I do want to touch upon very much. Design. I always thought a bit Italian ish, but we could put them in the corner of Nouveau. A British design together with Polin and Ordain is maybe a bit traditionalist because it's enamel, but very contemporary, which I love. Marlou Marlow never held. Monroe Never. Mr. Jones, we obviously know. I love it. They are also pushing the boundaries and at affordable price, so I love what they do. Nomadic, Never held. Homologato sounds Italian, apparently. English or British. Olivier Melan. Doesn't that sound Swiss? We know the Melans behind Moser and.
- [39:35]
B
C. So, yeah, Gekota is a great, affordable brand. I think that it exists very comfortably alongside the Watch Gecko site. I think most of the watches that they make are very well designed to be strap monsters. So if you're looking to get into the hobby, not a bad place to pick up a watch or two. Helicon, you missed this one. This is run by Jonathan Bordell and his wife Danielle. And they're doing nice stuff. Good quality divers mostly. They've got some plans in the future for other things coming out. Good use of color, a lot of experience in the trade. So hit the ground running when they launched a couple of years back. Isotope. I have to hold my hands up. Isotope was on my list of innovators and the most like, important movers and shakers in the British scene that you asked me about before. I completely forgot to mention them. So Jose is actually. I think he's Portuguese by birth, so that's maybe where you get in the more Mediterranean ish vibes. And Portugal doesn't really border the Mediterranean, does it? It's an Atlantic coast entirely. So you know what I mean. That kind of lower part of Europe with the warmth and the fun and the vibrancy and, you know, the optimism that we so often lack in life in Britain and even in the Netherlands. So Isotope is a very joyous brand with great designs, huge amount of variety within the catalog. They're bold, aesthetically. They are affordable, accessible, more fun than pretty much any other brand around them at that price point. They've recently done a new collaboration with legendary sports analyst Miguel Zebra, who's also known for his collab with Richard Bentz of Studio Underdog, the Strawberries and Cream Wimbledon edition, which sold over 800 pieces when it was made available for a brief window of time. I spent a lot of time with Miguel over the weekend, actually we had a nice chat. We met each other at the Nomos forum either last year or the year before, having followed each other's work for years. Obviously I'm a big sports fan. He mostly specializes in tennis. Tennis is one of my favorite sports. So it was lovely to get closer to him as a nice picture of us both wearing watches. What was I wearing? Oh, we were both wearing Monso watches. This is a brand that isn't out yet. It's coming out in the next couple of months. We won't spoil anything else for you, but keep your eyes peeled. A member of our network is behind it and they are very nice watches and I can't say how good a value proposition they will be. So in the meantime, check out the collab that Miguel did with Jose of Isotope. It is freaking cool, basically, is all I can say. It's futuristic, it's edgy, it's challenging, it's not like other stuff on the market. Its price is I think around 3k. I might be pulling that out of my ass, but it's, it's around that figure. I think it's a lovely use of color, use of shapes within shapes. It's again just very Isotope, not like anything else. Next one on the list that needs mentioning is Marlow. So Scarlett and I picked up on the Marlowe Special edition for British Watchmakers Day as being one of the nicest on screen before we saw it in life and our suspicions were confirmed. It was really, really cool. Beautifully finished, gorgeous use of color, great combination of materials assembled by their in house watchmaker Alison, who I got to speak to and invite on the show. So hopefully we'll get to talk to her more about it. They've been going for 10 years and they've been doing some really good stuff. They make good watches and it was only 795 quid or something like that. And if I hadn't bought a gimlet, which I did, I would have bought that one. That would have been my one. I would have purchased Mr. Jones watches. Gorgeous, nomadic, solid as hell. Omolagato. It's a mouthful. I can't believe I said it right in the first attempt. Yeah, not for me, but I think that they do some pretty edgy, sporty stuff. And Olivier Malan, weirdly enough, did a collab with one of my favorite British artists, a guy called LP Edits. I don't know if I mentioned this on last year's, last year's show because they had it then as well, and they still have it now, which is maybe not the best sign, or maybe they're just showing it as something they've done in the past. But it's funky, it's cool. And yes, that name is obviously always worth paying attention to.
- [43:53]
A
So what you just did shows how much this alliance is needed, not only for us journalists, but as collectors and consumers as well. Because I was running down the list of only the limiteds that were made for the event. You scroll down on the website and mentioned all the brands that were present at the event. And then there is a third list of everybody associated with the alliance, and that's an even longer list. So imagine how cool this is and how needed this event is and how much I want it to be there, because, well, if you listen to this pod and you know me, watches don't dominate seven days of the week. They might dominate more than 18 hours of a day for me, because even in my sleep, I process watch stuff. So I'm going back to the original list of collabs, Rob, that I would have went to those tables to see them, to consider do I want to buy them or not. So, Pinion we've discussed, I think both of us like them, so I'm going to quickly jump to Pom Peak. Never held them. And then we have Sidearus. I hope I pronounce it correctly.
- [45:15]
B
Sideiris. I think that's Brian's brand, an Irish brand, one of very few Irish brands. But Brian's the guy that basically organizes the Waterford Festival of time with Johnny McLaren of the Limited edition. So I know. So Brian and Giles from Schofield are really good mates as well. And no wonder, because Brian's a wonderful man and always lovely to spend time with. And his watches are cool as hell as well.
- [45:39]
A
Yeah, so. So I would love to see those. And then Vertex is not represented, I believe, anywhere in mainland Europe. Now, if it wasn't for my dear friend Bernard Ver, the founder of Watching magazine, who's a big ambassador for Vertex and has many of them. So whenever I see him, I immediately strap off his Vertex, Vertex watches, because I'm a big Dirty Dozen fan. I'm very happy that he has revived Vertex. And I saw also on the second list that Timor, or actually the third list, Timor, is associated with the alliance, but wasn't present at the event. So imagine how big the watchmakers they can become in the future, because so many haven't even exhibit it. So, Rob, this is it for me. I am busting with Excitement. The Britishness in me is very high because my wife is from London, my kids have British passports. I love London. I love British watchmakers. You know that at Ace, we were the first, I'm talking about maybe 14 years ago to exclusively represent Bremont in the Netherlands, which we still do. We recently started retailing Fears exclusively on mainland Europe. Bamford, London. We sell exclusively as well. So I love everything these English and British chaps do. Any closing comments? Rob?
- [47:17]
B
All I would say is that we are in a very healthy era for British watchmaking. As Nicholas of Fears said on one of the times he's featured on the Real Time show, a rising tide raises all ships. And it does seem like the tide is rising. You're very right about the amount of brands that we mentioned that either weren't at the event or aren't already part of the alliance put together. They could easily make another day. So maybe there is some scope to evolve it into a two day fair with two different brand lineups, but I'm sure that would come with its own issues. It's a nice problem to have. It's really great to see this buoyant feeling to, to feel it primarily in the auditorium. I think that we need to do better presenting the British watchmaking scene to a wider portion of the British public. It was, you know, the same people that you see at watch fairs every single time. It was not a particularly diverse crowd, shall we say. And that's something we need to, we need to work on in Britain. There are, there's a stark contrast, I think, between the demographic profile of attendees in Britain and British events versus European events. You'll find far more women at events in Switzerland or France, for example, than you will at a British event. And one wonders why that is. Is it because of failure to market effectively to the female watch lovers? Are there simply fewer, statistically also possible? Is it maybe the fact that the culture is not as welcoming as we'd like it or need it to be? I don't feel that as a man, but that's because I'm a man and it's, you know, easy for me to walk into these events and to feel like I belong. So it's interesting to observe, you know, when we look at readership and listenership figures for major media titles in the watch industry globally, we would say that females represent roughly 5% of consumers. And if I look around that auditorium on Saturday, I don't think there was 5% of women in the room. And that's an interesting thing because to me, there's always been from a very mercenary perspective. There's always been that, that untapped resource of new listeners, new readers, people that haven't already been swept up by the Hidinkis and the monochromes and the fratellos of the world, those people that are looking for a place to read the kind of content they want to read or listen to the kind of content they want to listen to. And I feel like that's a pretty, pretty right market for development there. So I think that we could maybe do a little bit more in that regards. I think it would be interesting to perhaps bring some more interactive activities into the event so we could get people maybe a bit closer to hi watchers work. I'm really keen to educate, as you know. I mean it's one of the main reasons why we started this podcast to have a slightly more serious platform where we're able to talk about the very esoteric and some would say nerdy aspects of horology that are too often overlooked for my liking. So I think that would be good. I think that maybe also like a kid's corner start I'm young. We need to cultivate the next generation. I mean I heard the other day and we, we touched on it in the group as well that schools are removing analog clocks. Give us a, give us a two minute rant on how much that annoys you while we're here.
- [50:54]
A
I've been saying this quite some time so I can fill a whole hour. Very briefly, dear listeners, if you have young kids, please please, please start teaching them analog time. I mean round clocks digital will be forced upon them due to all the digital screens. And yeah, I've been saying this for years. I've showed studies years ago. I've wrote written articles and columns about it. And recently somebody posted this indeed in the TRTS community. I had to bite my lips not to well, help my fingers back, not to be a keyboard knight and to start ranting again. My solution to this, especially to the wealthy behemoths in the watch industry and especially I'm looking at the Swatch group. Please produce for one pound euro dollar wall clocks. Donate them to all the schools in the world. Because trust me, that's going to be the best ROI in the world. Because if kids really don't know how to read analog time, and if schools are really taking out clocks out of classrooms, I'm talking kindergarten, elementary, high school, and even at unis and during exams, apparently there are no analog clocks on the walls anymore because it gives students Stress.
- [52:14]
B
Oh, for God's sake.
- [52:15]
A
I swear this is stud. There are studies about this. Apparently they're taking out analog wall clocks out of exam holes because those students that do not know how to read analog time get stressed out because they visually see the hands striking, sliding down the clock, but they don't know what time it is or when the exam ends. This sounds idiotic, it sounds bonkers, but apparently it's a harsh reality. So, dear watch brands, if you're listening, and especially those in the big groups that are very wealthy and have the means, think 10 years, 20 years ahead. If the next generation can't read analog times, do you really think they're going to buy tourbillon minute repeaters and watches that are maybe not considered jewels? The wristwatch will have the same destiny as pocket watches. And here I'm going to shut up. Rob, the outro is yours.
- [53:15]
B
I'm going to do it in a second. But you've given me an idea. I just checked while you were ranting so eloquently and honestly, your fury is a salve to my fury over this issue. There are 32,149 schools in the United Kingdom. 20,739 of those are primary schools. How about at some point in the Real Time Show's existence, we make it our goal to provide every single one of them with a wall clock? We can work with a brand. You know, Pauline's probably the. The best wall clock producer we know of. Reasonable affordability or someone like that. Or we just go straight to China. We have them all made ourselves and we distribute them to try and be the change we want to see in the world.
- [54:00]
A
And this is how we roll. We literally jam on the mic. We did not prepare this. I love it. We have been forging a giving back mechanism for the Real Time Show. We initially wanted to do fundraising, or if we have turnover, which is hardly existent, as Rob mentioned on the show, we want to give a percentage of that to organization that educate future watchmakers. But you know what, Rob? I think that this should definitely be added to our charity activities. I love it. We should do it. And I've been saying to all my dear colleagues that are jewelers as well, it's not only about money. Go reach out to your communities, even your own kids school offer to give guest lectures. If teachers are not able to get the knowledge across, then whose task is it? Obviously ours.
- [55:04]
B
100% agree with you. And the more we take responsibility for that, the better. If anyone has any more ideas of how we could give back to the watchmaking community, then please do get in touch with us via the usual channels. Our Instagram handle is herealtime show. You can contact either Alon, me or David by adding our names to at the realtime show, you can reach out to Scarlett via her Instagram handle, which is at Scarl in the Shire. That's S C A R L I N T H E S H I R E. You can also use our contact form on the revamped website www.therealtime.show. we'll be back very soon with more top quality content and interviews with watchmaking's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.