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Building A Legacy Brand: Robert Bailey Explores The Future Of Laurent Ferrier
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- [00:00]
Robert Bailey
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Rob Nudds
Watch fans and welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds. Today we are joined by Robert Bailey, head of sales of Lauren Ferriere for the second time, but not since November 10, 2022, which is a shocking realization for both of us. It's been three and a half years since we've spoken on air, but Robert, pleasure to have you back in the studio.
- [00:25]
Robert Bailey
Thanks very much. Pleasure to be here.
- [00:27]
Rob Nudds
So today we are going to be discussing a very interesting topic that isn't often openly addressed. Now, Robert, of course you've worked for many years with Lauren Ferrier, one of the industry's most respected luminaries in the field of independent watchmaking. And the topic we want to address is this. A brand and its master, how to prepare a legendary name for the next generation. Because of course, so much of the Ferrier brand is knotted up with Laurent in his own personal history. We need to talk about what's going to happen in the future and we'd love to get your insights on that, not just regarding your own brand, but also other brands that are very personality driven. Brands like Anderson Geneve, brands like MB and F for example, that aren't at London Watch Week, but still very relevant to the independent space. And so we will get into that topic very soon. First off though, Robert, tell us how have you been for the last three and a half years and how is business?
- [01:18]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, great. Now, it does seem like a long time ago actually to Playset. We'd launched the Sport Auto about six months previously when we, when we last spoke. And that seems like an age ago since we launched that note. Imagining Laurent failure without the Sport Auto in the collection. Seems like a past life. No, I mean, all has been good. We've had a really good run. Obviously the crazy years that everybody knows were crazy for us. Things now I think have calmed down. Everything's still going good for us. I think there's some advantages in it being a little bit calmer in that we can be closer to our customers, we can spend more time with them. We know who we're selling to. Obviously when you kind of, you know, you know, when it's these crazy times, you're getting requested for watches from, you know, all sides, all different kinds of people. And you know, as a sales guy, it's much, much more challenging, I think, to manage the requests, you know, the request coming from directly to us for the distribution through all these different things. So, you know, the current market climate is, you know, nicer for us. To get to know our customers better, get closer and really, yeah, really have a good time now.
- [02:27]
Rob Nudds
And I assume for a very high end independent maker, that's the most important thing for you, knowing your customers well and working with them directly to source the pieces that they most desire.
- [02:38]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, I mean, so definitely knowing them well, basically staying close to them, listening to them. I mean, we have a philosophy of basically supporting our distribution network. So we have almost no direct sales. The exception being that we do these Serie A Lieux every year. So like a workshop edition of anywhere between 5 and 40, 40 pieces, but usually between 10 and 10 and 20 and those ones we sell directly, but otherwise we really tend to favor our distribution. So for us, we make no distinction between a customer that we get to know who's bought a watch from one of our retail partners and one that's bought from us directly. We don't differentiate between the two. Our door is open and we work on everybody irrespective of where they bought their watch.
- [03:29]
Rob Nudds
That's a nice policy to have. Not all brands operating in your price point or level of prestige take such a open and welcoming stance on these things. How do you feel when someone buys a Lauren Ferrier on a secondary market?
- [03:45]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, I mean the secondary market exists and it's a huge part of the industry overall. And so it's something that you have to, you have to be active in and you have to basically support the customers who are in there. If somebody spends today 51,000 francs buying a new sport auto and the next customer on a secondary market will probably spend about the same, that secondary customer still spend 51,000 francs on a watch. So it's our philosophy that we have to provide them with the level of service that they would expect from a brand. Obviously all the warranty applications and things like that. If the watch is out of warranty, there's a cost associated with it, but we definitely provide the service to a customer, irrespective of where he bought the watch.
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Rob Nudds
Knowing the customers as you do, whether they're direct customers or through your distribution network, what is it that you feel is the most attractive aspect of the brand itself to them?
- [04:47]
Robert Bailey
I mean, I guess it'd be better to ask a few customers that question to not have to put words in their mouth. I mean, what we try and provide obviously is the product itself and all the things that we communicate on pretty clearly, such as the finishing, chronometrical precision, smooth lines, understated luxury, all of those things, things that we really try and put into action and really try and make sure our watches represent. But then from an interaction with the customer perspective, I think it's accessibility. I mean, like, you know, you can. In our company, you can talk to anybody you want to. You know, if, you know, if you rob tomorrow wanted to, you know, you know, come and, you know, meet Laurent for a coffee. You can, you know, it's not. It's not a. Yeah. You know, our doors are open. We welcome everybody in. You can speak to everybody in the company. There's nobody that's kind of ring fenced. So I think that kind of really, you know, people really kind of feel, you know, it's a bit cheesy, but feel part of the family. You know, when they come to see us and they get shown around, you know, we do try and, you know, connect with people and be transparent and open and really let them see what we do.
- [06:02]
Rob Nudds
I mean, that's a really important aspect and certainly a very sufficient answer to the question, because I think that that is very important to people buying watches of this value, that they feel like they know the brand, that they're respected by the brand, the brand is available to them. I'd love to sit down for a coffee with a great man. Although, unfortunately, there might be a bit of a language barrier, because if you remember, the episode we recorded previously was the bilingual episode we've ever had on the Real Time show. I do remember. You did a fantastic job translating on the fly, and I did my best to edit it so that it made sense to the listener. But, yeah, a memorable moment, actually one I really appreciate.
- [06:39]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, no, I mean. I mean, I tease Laurent because, like, his English is better than he lets on. I've never heard him really speak it, but he understands it better than he lets on.
- [06:51]
Rob Nudds
I had a strange incident with my former boss, Roland Schwerner from Nomos Glassiter in. In Geneva. Just recently, for three years, I was head of sales for certain territories for Nomos, and never once did Roland speak to me in English. Never once. In fact, I was told that he just didn't. He couldn't. But apparently he could. Or he can and he could. And this time, we sat down together and he spoke to me in English. I was like, dude, life would have been so much easier if you'd not made me speak German. But here we are. So I suppose if there is the opportunity to one day have a coffee with Laurent, I will. I will put my faith in his comprehension and then do my best to understand his French, which is plausibly possible.
- [07:34]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, yeah. I think I say Englishmen working for the brands in the Swiss watch industry. I think we are definitely a minority.
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Rob Nudds
But your French is absolutely fluent. How long have you been over there now? And do you have a family member who's French or did you learn when you were young?
- [07:52]
Robert Bailey
Actually, I was born here, so I grew up in Geneva. Oh, yeah. And so maybe you've heard of the. There's a nuclear reactor or a nuclear accelerator in Geneva called cern. Yeah, of course, yeah. So my dad moved that here in 1976 to work for CERN. I met my mom at Slovenia. I was born five years later.
- [08:13]
Rob Nudds
I see. So English father, Swiss mom.
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Robert Bailey
No, both. Both are English, but born out here, grew up out here, so.
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Rob Nudds
Ah, that's a lovely combination. Yeah, very jealous. Unfortunately, I was born in the mid-80s in Ireland and no one in my region spoke native Irish at the time, so I never even picked up that to two English parents. So hence my language skills being way off the boil.
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Robert Bailey
Well, I have to get Lahore to practice his English with you a bit then.
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Rob Nudds
Well, I'm sure we can ask him to do that. But tell me this. He is such a central figure to the brand. His life story is so integral to not just the history and the general character of the brand, but also to the story behind the watches themselves. What's the long, long term plan? Is there a succession plan in place for him? Does he have family members that are going to take over the brand when he decides to step away from the active, day to day role that he's in now? Or is there something else in the pipeline?
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Robert Bailey
Basically, I think, yeah. I mean, Krishna is, you know, is not poised to, you know, to take over the time being from, from, from Lahore. So, you know, basically, I mean, you know, the company works in very much, you know, like a structured, structured way, you know, so we have basically, you know, a design office, you know, that Laurent heads at the moment. So basically the head designer in the team is a guy called Martin Duy and he, he basically, he does all the hands on development of all the pieces. And once again, I kind of tease Lahore a little bit. He's a little bit the Roman emperor. Basically kind of gives a thumbs up and a thumbs down at the end of the process. Is it approved or not? And then on the whole movement side, we have all of the technical office really developing all the movements. And as much from the aesthetic side as from the mechanical side, these two offices worked together. And so I think some of these team members Laurent's been working with now for over 15 years. And basically it's kind of all they know is how to work in Laurent style. So I think in terms of the structure of the company itself, it's very much impregnated with the man's way of thinking and way of seeing and where it is. And I think it's everywhere in the company. The design of the watches, the simplicity, the understatedness, nothing too ostentatious. But also I think hopefully a bit like we're talking about before in the way the company operates, being very, very fair to all partners, trying to do what we say, say what we do. No surprises, be predictable. All of these things are kind of Mr. Failure and surface trickle down even into my position, into my role when I first started in the company. Very clear mandates to respect the distribution that they will be the reason for our success. So to treat them respectfully and with respect, basically. So, yeah, I think the man is everywhere in the company as it is already.
- [11:35]
Rob Nudds
How often does he give a thumbs down? Has that reduced over time as the teams become more aligned with him?
- [11:41]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, yeah, very much so. Very much so. I mean, I mean, it's more, I think kind of in terms of, you know, coloration and things like that, you know, I think the, you know, the, the team were, you know, not so much me. We were talking, you know, when we were offline, you and I, about middle age and, you know, like, I'm the third oldest person in the, in the company now. Really. Yeah, but, but yes, you know, so like often like the, you know, like the, the colors are maybe a little bit brighter and kind of Lauren kind of, you know, kind of it back to kind of more kind of like somber. Not somber, that's focused, but like kind of karma, you know. Karma. Yeah, yeah. Mutuals. Maybe the better.
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Rob Nudds
Subtle, refined, elegant.
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Robert Bailey
But yeah, I think, you know, in terms of like, I mean, I'd say like it's very much in like the brand new developments. You know, maybe there he's a little bit more implicated in terms of choice of colors and things like that, the shapes and stuff like that. I think the team pretty much have a handle on. And then kind of when we do kind of like, you know, animations for different, you know, for different, you know, different collections that already exist and things like that that I think the team operate pretty much autonomously.
- [12:59]
Rob Nudds
Tell us what Laurent's day to day looks like. Is he mostly based in Switzerland or is he still traveling a fair bit to meet with new collectors and retailers and whatnot? Or does he have more people around him doing that for him.
- [13:11]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, so I mean, Lahore essentially doesn't travel anymore. So yeah, so I mean, I think the last long trip that he did was in 2021 was basically where him and I, yeah, we all did that and went on a trip and that was the last, the last trip. And so, yeah, I mean occasionally maybe a bit of European trip, like maybe get on the train to Paris or something like that or possibly, you know, possibly jump over to London. But I think anything further afield would be, would, wouldn't happen basically. So I mean his day to day is very much kind of going over the design plans, I think also kind of talking to the different suppliers as well. So kind of if he's looking for a specific effect on the kind of dial, kind of talking to the supplier, kind of explaining to them how he would want the dial to be constructed, what kind of techniques he would kind of advise they use that kind of thing to make it. So spends quite a lot of time doing JMAT.
- [14:17]
Rob Nudds
So tell us about your supply partners and you don't have to name them if you aren't able to do that. But the relationships you've built up with them over the years must also be similar to the relationships Lauren has established within the team, that they get more and more attuned to his desires and the way that he likes to work and the aesthetic he's trying to achieve. Do you have multiple suppliers for every individual component just to make sure that you have a broad spread of options, like four or five dial suppliers, for example, or do you just work with one?
- [14:45]
Robert Bailey
So no, we work with different ones, but it's more kind of related to their kind of primary skill sets. So if you have maybe one that's kind of like really known for kind of enameling, then that would typically be one that we use for enameling. If it's kind of different kinds of finish, like engraving, we might use another one. So it's more in terms of what they, what kind of dial we're looking for, that we'll talk to the different kinds of suppliers. But then it does. I mean, even with like, you know, our best selling watch is the Sport Auto. So it's about a quarter of our production as the Sport Auto. And there we do have backup suppliers, but we still produce most of the watch using the, you know, the primary, the primary supplier, the backup supplier is basically just there if we have a big problem, which you've not had until to date with the primary supplier.
- [15:46]
Rob Nudds
So what's the supply like at the moment, if things running smoothly, are you able to get things out on time? I know there's always going to be a longer waiting time for a piece of this caliber. But is it going well for you or are you finding some bottlenecks in the current industry?
- [16:00]
Robert Bailey
No, it's not. I mean, basically, I know everybody in the industry is talking about bottlenecks. We, we haven't felt it yet in terms of everything that we're asking for is being delivered in a reasonable timeframe. So for the moment, everything for us is going okay. But we do anticipate a supply challenge coming. And that's what we're hearing from many sources is that basically supply challenges is coming. But so that's why also, I mean, once again, going back to what we're talking about before, in the image of the man himself, we plan a long way ahead. So basically we know more or less all of our orders up until the end of next year. We already know what they are. So basically we place our supply of components and things already. So we're kind of hedged quite a long way into the future for that supply. I guess where sometimes we run into little delays is when we have new products. Because obviously when you have a brand new product, when you start assembling it and things like that and proper production process, then there are little surprises. There are things that kind of pop up that didn't pop up on the prototypes. When the watchmakers are putting it together, they see things we didn't notice before. So yeah, usually when it's the first watch, then maybe there we have a few constraints because we have to rework certain components to basically make them the level that we, that we want to. But usually when it's running, then we're usually all right.
- [17:39]
Rob Nudds
At what point do you start the communication when you've got a design, a release and a supply process in mind? Do you announce the products before you've started end production while you've just worked with prototypes? Or do you perform a different strategy?
- [17:56]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, no, no, no. So basically our partners know of our new releases typically 12 to 18 months before we launch. And so then we obviously have kind of like their purchase intentions. And basically then based on those purchase intentions, we then go and secure our supply contracts.
- [18:20]
Rob Nudds
I guess that explains maybe why you've not run into the same supply issues as many smaller brands. Not just because you're a prestigious brands that I'm sure any supplier would love to be associated with, but also because you manage your supply so far ahead of time. You're able to make the necessary investment to ensure the product will work and perform as you want. Okay, yes, of course there's going to be those issues that you mentioned that you'll run into when you hit production. And when something's produced in series, it gets harder and harder to ensure. But that does at least explain it, like why you're able to do it in that way. You said that you anticipate supply issues on the horizon. Why is that? Is that just a general feeling you're getting from everyone else in the industry or have you already noticed certain things getting harder to source?
- [19:06]
Robert Bailey
We've not run into any supply constraints as such in terms of like our partners, our supply partners are asking us to kind of re. Clarify our needs and stuff like that so that, that kind of gives an indication that they're in a planning phase so that, you know, they. But yeah, it's mainly based on what we're hearing. I mean just even in the general press you hear of basically kind of redundancies in different sectors and things like that. So yeah, we're kind of, yeah, we're kind of keeping our eye close to the ground. You know, we're being realistic and basically taking every precaution that we can to kind of ensure our supply.
- [19:46]
Rob Nudds
So you work a lot with precious metals and even since we spoke last, the raw price of gold. Well, yeah, talk to me about that. You're an interesting situation. I mean some of your full gold pieces, which I have to say are some of the most desirable pieces on the market in totality must have skyrocketed in terms of production costs. What kind of challenges does that present to you as a brand that is, I'm sure not trying to milk the retail price. You've got to hold it relatively close to what it was. But yeah. How have you have your clientele responded to the necessary increases, if you've made any?
- [20:26]
Robert Bailey
Well, I mean, I mean I think that's basically, especially from a sales perspective, it's been nightmare number, nightmare number one, the. So I mean basically, you know, we've had like a very small increase like 3% on basically all the non gold pieces. So that didn't, you know, virtually nothing. An extra thousand, 2,000 francs for, you know, on the watch, it's not, not enormousness. And that, that was absolutely, absolutely fine. And then the gold ones, I mean basically, once again we try and be as fair as, as possible. So previously between, let's say like a, a leather strap watch, you know, between a steel or titanium and a Gold piece, we used to only have 10,000 franc difference between the two, but now with the increase in the price of gold, we've had to increase that to 16, excuse me, to 14,000. So I think we're still being fed. We're basically just passing on the gold price increase that we've had come through onto the watches. So we're not increasing our margin as well. Basically we're just passing on the raw material cost increase to the customers.
- [21:39]
Rob Nudds
I guess that's something you're keeping a close eye on though, because that kind of generosity on your part, as it were, to not pass on the additional costs of gold in form of a multiple is fine to a point, but what if it jumps up another 20, 30%? There's going to be some problems there.
- [22:00]
Robert Bailey
No, yeah. Basically it's all to do with our supply contracts. So we are stable for quite a long time now. So basically with the contracts that we have and then when we need to revisit it, we revisit it. So in terms of we're not at risk in terms of basically kind of margin reduction. And then of course I think then obviously as a brand we're looking at all the different options. We have the Sport Autel in gold. You know, that piece has 230 grams of gold in it. So that one was heavily impacted by the increase in price. And so we're looking at kind of like product alterations. Do we do a version of that watch on a rubber bracelet instead of a gold one so that we can have basically have that model available at a more attractive price point. So a kind of debating all of these different ideas to try and basically get something that makes the most sense to our customers out there.
- [23:10]
Rob Nudds
I've thought for quite some time that bi color was due a bit of a resurgence just from an aesthetic perspective. I thought with this kind of 80s 90s nostalgia that's permeating fashion especially maybe the market price of precious metals is going to force people's hands to go down that route a little sooner.
- [23:28]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, yeah, possibly. Possibly, yeah. So yeah, it's funny and I think, you know, it's like, you know, the platinum as well is we're looking at platinum much more than we have in the past. Like in terms of, you know, raw metal weights, it's cheaper than gold. I mean it's usually not end up being cheaper on the watch because of all the machining costs which are higher and more complicated. But yeah. So anyway, you know, these are the kind of debates we're having in Terms of we should launch next year the first full collection piece in a platinum case, which we've not done until now.
- [24:04]
Rob Nudds
I think that's something that's often lost on the buy in public. Platinum is so expensive because it's so hard to machine and it's such an awful process to go through, really. But now with the rising price of gold, then it becomes a more palatable option for brands to explore. And I think, strangely, it becomes a value buy almost in comparison to old gaps. Yeah, I mean, not going to pretend that I haven't got a full collection of platinum watches now all of a sudden, but I wouldn't mind buying one now. When you look at the prices in comparison, you're like, oh, actually that's pretty reasonable for platinum because we still have in our minds that platinum is the thing that's just way, way, way more expensive. But, yeah, not the case anymore. Tell us about your distribution network or your retailers, should I say, like your partners that you work with around the globe. How many do you have now and which regions are having the most successful?
- [24:55]
Robert Bailey
I mean, so basically, I mean, we have 44 doors. A few of those doors were the same partner. So we have, in a few cities, we have the same partner that might have two or three doors. So it's a little bit over 30 individual retail partners. I think for most brands at the moment, a lot of it's linked to kind of the macroeconomic stuff. So really, like the US is, you know, US is doing. Doing very, very well for us at the moment. But actually the UK as well, you know, despite all of the, you know, the kind of, you know, changes in the uk, you know, economy and system, the UK is doing well for us as well. Italy is doing pretty good for US as well. Japan. Yeah. So, yeah, it's.
- [25:45]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, there's still plenty of rich people in the uk. There's just quite a lot more. Not rich people, I think is the issue. But, yeah, the rich ones are doing all right. I think.
- [25:54]
Robert Bailey
I said what's great for us with the UK as well is that we're selling to locals, which we really enjoy. And I think maybe that's where the market's changed a little bit in terms of, like, if you wound back the clock in the UK kind of pre Covid, it was very much not very much, but there were quite a lot of tourism buyers. So basically people coming from abroad into the UK to buy watches. And therefore it was, yeah, you had less visibility on who you were selling to. But now with the kind of the Disposition of the VAT rebate and things like that. Those customers that would have come to buy in London might be now buying Geneva because the VAT is. Or Switzerland because the VAT is possibly a bit more attractive. But also in other European countries that still offer the VAT rebate.
- [26:45]
Rob Nudds
Is it 8.2% now in Switzerland?
- [26:47]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, 8.1.
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Rob Nudds
Yeah, 8.1. I had a feeling it went up. Okay. Are there any major markets that you're not yet in, like emerging markets like India or Mexico for example?
- [26:59]
Robert Bailey
No, we're in both of those.
- [27:01]
Rob Nudds
Great, Very nice. Yeah, I think that's the place to be. There seems to be a lot of enthusiasm about both those markets and the rate that they're growing. So you're going to be in London Watch Week yourself. Or as this episode airs, you will be in London for the Watch Week organized by our good friends over there, especially my dear friend Lucy Cheese Wright, who I know you're very close to yourself.
- [27:24]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, very close. Looking forward to seeing everybody again.
- [27:27]
Rob Nudds
Tell us what people can expect to see when they visit you over there for lww.
- [27:34]
Robert Bailey
So basically we'll come with obviously the full collection of watches and I think the one most people won't have seen as a new sport traveler. So this is the one that we launched at Watches and Wonders and we'll be bringing that piece and so we are starting shipments of that piece in basically the next week or so. So yeah, so basically as it kind of hits the stores. Yeah, we'll have, we'll come with a piece for everybody to see and then, yeah, we'll have all of the collection. I'll come with a few kind of, you know, a few little goodies in terms of little kind of like demonstration kits that show how different movements work and stuff like that. So. Yeah.
- [28:15]
Rob Nudds
And will you be partaking in any extracurricular events or. Extracurriculars, maybe not the right word. After hours events, evening soirees.
- [28:24]
Robert Bailey
Well, I mean, knowing myself, I surely will. I think there's already an opening gala, I think that's been very kindly organized by Lucy and Tom and Justin and the Zenith team. So very happy to be participating in that as well. And then, yeah, so then the other ones I'm sure will take it as it goes on a night by night basis.
- [28:48]
Rob Nudds
Best way to do it. So I guess you are traveling a lot yourself, representing the brand around the world.
- [28:55]
Robert Bailey
Yep, sure. Answer, I guess
- [28:59]
Rob Nudds
how often are you on the road? Because as the head of sales, I mean there's a lot of responsibility on your Shoulders to manage that network and to make sure things are ticking over and the bottom line looks healthy.
- [29:09]
Robert Bailey
So, yeah, I'd say it's about 40% of the time that I'm aware and so.
- [29:13]
Rob Nudds
Okay.
- [29:13]
Robert Bailey
Yeah. So, yeah.
- [29:15]
Rob Nudds
Do you still enjoy it?
- [29:16]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, yeah, very much so. Very much so. I mean, I think, I think, you know, when I was, you know, much younger, like the first, the first, you know, the first assignments, if you like, like it was the whole excitement of the traveling and the, you know, the airplanes and the hotels and all this kind of stuff and that's completely gone. I mean, if there's a way to kind of like, you know, Star Trek, like instant transfer to a place, then I definitely, definitely take that. But I still very much enjoy being, you know, like, you know, we have, you know, obviously I'm on air, you know, this kind of podcast, but I genuinely mean it that, you know, we really have some like, really great partners, you know, as much for their professional, you know, approach as, you know, very human, very, you know, very, you know, good people. And I think, you know, I consider, I consider, you know, many of them also friends, you know, so very much enjoy going to see them and kind of, you know, experiencing their culture with the local. And that much I very much enjoyed. I think even you'd be doing this job for over 10 years now that I have. You keep learning new things, especially about cultures, which is fantastic.
- [30:23]
Rob Nudds
So you have in the past collaborated with other brands or other. I remember there was something with Urwerk, was there not several years ago, nine
- [30:33]
Robert Bailey
years ago, that was an only watch bc.
- [30:36]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. And that obviously set people's hearts racing. Is there any plans in the pipeline, near or distant future for Lauren Ferrier to collaborate with other brands? You know, because we're in this kind of brand on brand collab phase where it's starting to become a bit more de rigueur. So what's the story with you on that front?
- [30:56]
Robert Bailey
Well, so I mean, I think for us, we're not, we're not. There's no concrete plans, there's a few brainstorm ideas. So yeah, we have some brainstorm ideas that we've spoken to other brands about and they seem to be positive. But basically from a brainstorm idea to this actually becoming a project, there's still a little bit of road ahead of us. So yeah, the ideas are bouncing around, but yeah, there's nothing concretely in the plan yet.
- [31:26]
Rob Nudds
No bio ceramic swatch on the horizon then?
- [31:34]
Robert Bailey
No, I'm not sure Mr. Hayek would. I'm not sure. He'd get his strings of people waiting outside a store for a bio ceramic long value.
- [31:44]
Rob Nudds
Well, who knows? Who knows? I'm sure he'd be interested to try it if you were. But I can't imagine that's really in the brand's future. What do you think about it from a philosophical perspective? Not the AP Swatch color, we'll leave that one where it is. But I mean, in general brand and brand collaborations, do you think it's, it's healthy or do you think that it dilutes each brand's message?
- [32:03]
Robert Bailey
Oh, I don't think so. I think, I think, you know, I think it's, I think it's a little bit of fun, kind of, you know, like an, you know, I think it allows, you know, brands to kind of work together a little bit, make some, you know, closer. And I think that's an example that we have with Ulvar, I think was, you know, quite an incredible one, like in terms of, you know, two very different brands in terms of appearance and, you know, design ethos. Like a very, very, very, very different. But, you know, but, but it still works. So I think, I think it's, I think it's. If it's something that obviously, you know, has done too much, then, then basically you'll probably run out of Steve. And I guess it will at some point. You know, I think, you know, this, you know, the, the Swatch collabs are great, but, you know, I guess if they keep doing them for 10 years, at the end of 10 years, and I guess the excitement would be less than it is, less than it is today. And I think in, you know, the independence, it would be a similar, a similar kind of thing. I think if Every year there's 20 collaborations between independent watch brands, eventually the collectors will, the excitement of that will fade.
- [33:10]
Rob Nudds
We've talked behind the scenes on the Real Time show ad nauseum about the motivations behind the current AP Swatch collab. And ultimately we come down with it as mostly a marketing exercise to break into new demographics or to attract younger audiences to the brand. Given the fact we're talking about the future of La Monferrier and how it is positioning itself for relevance with future generations, not just within the company, but also without. How are you reaching this Gen Z and even Gen Alpha audience? I suppose the Alphas may not be on your radar just yet, but Gen Z is certainly coming through and makes up a large portion of a potential watch buy in public. How are you speaking to them, Robbie?
- [33:50]
Robert Bailey
See the night showing Me my age, I didn't even know what gen alphas were.
- [33:53]
Rob Nudds
So you got a few years before. You need to worry about it mate. Don't wor.
- [34:00]
Robert Bailey
So basically, I mean I think you know, one thing you'll have seen with the Lantier is I think you know, we've really ramped up our marketing over the past, past five years. You know, roughly five years ago I think, you know, our marketing was very, very rudimentary. We were doing almost nothing, you know, social media presence, very, very, very, very small. And I think you know, we've, we've, you know, really kind of step changed our kind of approach who we're talking to, talking to influencers, talking to the different mag like that to try and reach this younger audience. And once again I think it's, you know, it's a very kind of geographical thing. I think our customers in Europe generally speaking tend to be more the kind of like 40, even 50 plus customers, the collectors that already have a nice collection of the big well known brands and the kind of like you know, foring into something a bit more, a bit different. But then in let's say somewhere like Hong Kong, it's much younger. So I mean you know there we have a, you know, a great relationship with the Horology club there and you know, a young bunch of guys and I think you know, thanks to, thanks to them we've been noticed by you know, a younger audience in Hong Kong than maybe when we are, than maybe where we are elsewhere.
- [35:25]
Rob Nudds
That seems like a pretty healthy mix to have these, these younger cohorts joining the Ferrier family in stages, you know, one after the other. Like you don't need to do it all at once. Of course each of these younger collectors that you get on board and becomes part of your, your universe will no doubt become an ambassador and go on and show their watches all over the world. Because to be fair, to be a Gen Z buying a Lauren Ferrier, you're probably up person of the world that is going to travel and is going to show that watch and is going to share that story because that's quite an incredible level of collecting to have got to at such a young age. Are you holding any specific events for the younger people in the industry? Are you making an effort to do more physical shows for them particularly or are you just allowing this to develop organically?
- [36:11]
Robert Bailey
I mean it's mainly organic and also we work very closely with our distribution partners and the event organization. So in terms of the standalone events that we do basically like watches and Wonders, Geneva, Watch days. You know, there's a few of it like Watch Time New York, where I think we still kind of consider it a corporate event as we're kind of not doing it with a retail partner. And then for the rest of the, you know, the rest of the events that we do, we do them with our retail partners and. Yeah, and then basically that is very much based on the demographic of their customers. Now I think if you take something like, you know, like Dubai Watch Week and Siddiq, they had done a phenomenal job in terms of the whole organization of the fair, the communication, the kind of the appealing to different age brackets, the different tools that they're using. I think that really is the benchmark of probably how to communicate with the widest specific, different age groups. Yeah.
- [37:20]
Rob Nudds
As a sales professional and someone that's on the road and traveling 40% of your time and obviously being exposed to many different cultures, different buying habits, different product desires globally, is there any gap you identify within your collection that you could do with filling in terms of either complication or aesthetics?
- [37:38]
Robert Bailey
I mean, and it's, I mean, it's. I mean, it's a tough one because, I mean, obviously like, I think in a more conservative markets and countries we would appeal to more and then maybe kind of more avant garde ish ones as from a general population perspective, we may be appealed to a bit less. So I think in terms of countries and cultures where there's lots of bright colors and very kind of noticeable shapes and forms like this, there's that generally speaking, we would be less interesting. But then again, our production is so small. We produce 500 watches a year. But even in those markets we're able to find 10 to 15 people every year that want something a little bit more conservative, something a little bit more discreet. So I think if we had a strategy, really we wanted to basically have a watch for everybody, then I think there would be a few kind of necessities for brighter colors, more noticeable timepieces. But that isn't our kind of strategy. I think it's more basically trying to find the people that our watches appeal to. And once again, it's helped by, I think, limited distribution, is that we can and invest the time and the money getting to know these people and showing them what we do and being able to place the 500 watches that we produce.
- [39:13]
Rob Nudds
I'm very glad to hear it. I mean, there is quite a common, I wouldn't even say desire, a sense of need expressed by many brands to sweep up as many potential customers as possible with very little care or concern about what that does to the brand. Of course, you could make a timepiece that wasn't Lauren Ferrier and it would appeal to a different audience. But that's obviously not your goal. And growing a business doesn't necessarily need to be volume related. I mean, would you be happy to stay at 500 pieces a year and maybe push the prices and the complexity and the luxury of each piece up a little higher? Or are you just happy at the level that you are and want to sustain that because of the demand outstripping the potential supply? Feel comfortable with many years down the line being able to, to exist in that vein?
- [40:02]
Robert Bailey
No, I think so. I mean, I think, I think the difficult few years that the industry has been through and I think it's kind of like confirmed that our strategy is a good one. Our strategy suits us well because. Yeah, because I think we're able to. It's harder to sell a watch now than it was a few years ago, but we still manage to sell them. So it's. So, yeah, no, I think, I mean, the strategy of the company is not to really to wrap and increase production, to suddenly jump to like 2,000 pieces or 5,000 pieces a year. That's definitely not the production. I mean, if you look at basically like the growth of Laurent failure over the years, basically when we add new watches, that tends to increase production a little bit. So basically the big one for us was basically when the Sport Auto came in. Then we suddenly started producing about 100 extra watches a year as that model came in. So I think we could possibly increase to maybe like 600, 700 pieces, something like that. Maybe over a longer period, maybe just up to somewhere like a thousand. But I think more than 1,000 would be a challenge. But even from a production perspective, we spend a lot of time doing decoration, doing internal angles, and we really want to get them at the best level that we possibly can. And so it's a really challenge for us to find the right people to decorate at the level that we want. And that's kind of like a natural cap that we have on our production. Even if we changed our strategy and said, okay, that next year we want to produce 2,000 pieces, we wouldn't be able to find the decorators to be able to do that. So it'd be a longer glide path.
- [42:00]
Rob Nudds
That's very interesting, isn't it? Because it's all really a balance. I mean, if you set out your strategy to sell half as many pieces, the demand for them wouldn't change. The volume of demand wouldn't change. But the prices people would be willing to pay for each individual piece could feasibly double because they're twice as rare and twice as hard to come by. So you are. But you've reached that level of sufficient expertise and quality where your clients aren't going anywhere. You are physically constrained by the availability of necessary skills to produce your products. Product sounds like such an awful way to talk about a long fur to produce your masterpieces, let's say forgive me. And yeah, it's a strong position because you've carved out like an incredible brand. A brand that is understood, a brand that is very well communicated now is obviously starting to gain traction with younger audiences around the globe and you have a tight grip on what that brand is going to be for the future. So you must be feeling pretty confident, right, Robert?
- [43:01]
Robert Bailey
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Thanks for your kind words. That's really very, very kind of you to say. And yeah, I think, I mean, basically we're kind of doing things step by step, building things bit by bit. We also, we want to be fair to our customers, you know, like, you know, it's not basically, you know, we're not trying to reduce supply to increase rarity and hike up prices when we're not playing any of those games. I mean, yeah, basically, yeah, we put a lot of work into our watches and you know, the price that we request is basically a reflection of, you know, the investment that we do into producing them. And yeah, you know, I think we're basically going right back to the beginning of the conversation. I think the philosophy of the man that's instilled in all of us here is be fair to everybody. Be fair to your suppliers, be fair to your employees, be fair to your customers. Try and do things with integrity and respect. And obviously the pricing and availability and all those things are included in that kind of strategy or philosophy.
- [44:07]
Rob Nudds
Well, to wrap it up, we'll stick with a three word, one hyphen sand by fair, friendly, fine watchmaking from LF himself and the team. Congratulations, Robert. I'm glad that everything's going so well. It's lovely to speak to you again and I hope you have a wonderful time in London where you will be now when this episode airs. If any of our audience have questions for Robert or the team, then please do get in touch. You know where to find us on Instagram. You can contact us herealtime show or you can get in touch with us via the contact form on the official website www.therealtime show. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.