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- [00:00]
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Foreign.
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Hi and hello, watch fans, and welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds. I am joined once again by our resident provocateur, David Vaucher. Va David, enjo tout le monde.
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A
Hello, everyone. Always great to be here.
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B
So today we are going to dive back into the mailbag. We have actually more questions than we expected it Very quickly after our most recent episode started to fill up again with people sending in new queries. And we're going to kick it off with quite an expansive question. We're going to kick it off with this one specifically because we're concerned it might run for the majority of the episode. But let's see how quickly we can buzz through it while doing it justice. Okay, this comes in from Jonathan Vice from ig. He says, could you please share watches you think are the best value for money? If you have a maximum of 500, 1,000, 3,000 and 5,000, we'll say pounds to give ourselves a little bit more spending power, no holds barred. David, what is your first choice? We'll kick it over to you. To start this one, if you had 500 GBP to spend, so that's around $650, around €600, I guess, what would you buy for your wrist?
- [01:23]
A
So we should mention that the original question says set out the idea of a matrix. So the idea would be that you had these. You'd have these price bands going down and then across, you'd have various types. So what's the best diver for 500? What's the best dress watch, field watch, et cetera? We are not going to do that because that would take all of three episodes. So we're going to try and keep it constrained with one choice. The other thing I want to mention is that it is getting really hard to make these bands. It seems to me, like with prices that have gone up so high for the established brands, it's getting very hard to fit some of these established names in that price brand. And so we're looking at independence now. And I think you're going to see a lot of that in the answers that Rob and I give. With that said, I'm going to lead off with a guest that we had on not too long ago, or at least I suppose they will be depending on when this airs. But le4bon securite mer the labristoise has been a favorite of mine. It's been on my list for a while. I know Rob was very taken when he saw it, but you can get a lab restoise for 490 Euros. So we are well under the 500 pound mark. Great looking vintage diver. French heritage checks all my boxes and if you want to and you got a little extra money, I think you can get an optional beads of rice steel bracelet to go with it. So very versatile, just a great looking watch.
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B
That's a good choice. Yeah. I was very impressed with everything that Le Fourbain had to offer and especially the Breastoise. It was a, it's a lovely piece and it really does punch well above its weight I think in that sub 500 pound bracket. Now my pick is even more affordable. I'm going down the quartz route, but I'm not taking the route most traveled. I'm not choosing a Casio G Shock for once. Instead I am choosing one of these very delightful Timex Iron man watches in full metal case. I'm not so bothered about the metal bracelet which is available on the black case version at least, but either the gold PVD or the bare steel metal cased. Iron Man 8 lap is an absolute knockout for about 350, which is crazy. I mean the standard 8 lap you can get and that's in plastic, you can get between like 80 to $170. You know there's different versions available all over the place. The metal ones I'm talking about, they run at around $350. So well, well, well within budget and just quality, quality watches. It's an iconic design to say the least. It really speaks to its era of origin. It's very wearable, it's multifunctional. It is just a smashing, smashing watch for not much money. David, what do you think of my pick?
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I think it's really interesting, it's surprising and it also ties into something I wanted to say which is that if so, we are recording this in January 2026 and I've said this before, I am boycotting more or less everything that I can get away with from the US and rob no shade to you. I mean everyone does what they they can. I would say though that it's a shame that we're in this and to say that because of watches is pretty petty. But if things were not as they are now, Timex has just been crushing it, crushing it. Whether you like quartz watches, mechanical watches, they've got like a 41 millimeter expedition watch which is in titanium, which looks great. They've got divers which look fantastic, which you can get either quartz or mechanically. They've got collaborations with, you know, peanuts like the Snoopy Gang, just awesome, awesome stuff. So shame of what's going on now. But look, depending on what it is that you want to do, you know, maybe hopefully not too far down the line when things are a little bit more back to how they were before. I think Timex, we got to give them credit because they used to be just a cheap watch that you just kind of bought at Walmart when you needed a watch, and now they make legitimately good stuff and I really hope to see them do more of that future.
- [05:16]
B
Yeah, rounding back on what you said to open your point about it being ever more difficult to find good watches within these price bands, these lower price bands, Timex is one of the bigger names you could hope to find in this category, along with Casio, of course, along with entry level Seikos as well. But what Timex are doing is exceptionally impressive and I'm playing this game theoretically. I've not put my money down on one of those watches yet. I'd love to, but to be quite frank, I've got so many watches of that ilk, including a box fresh Casio surf timer from the early 90s and an almost flawless Casio Skywalker from the same era. Do I really need a metal Iron Man 8 lap? I might treat myself to one at some point if I get the itch to buy again anytime soon, but that's an itch that has been surprisingly lacking of late. I am quite comfortable with the watches I have. I'm enjoying wearing a lot of the watches that we've designed together for the Real Time show and I don't feel that need to go out there and throw cash at stuff that isn't going to get significant risk time. I did have a couple of honorable mentions for this sub 500 category because I really racked my brains for stuff that I would advocate for in this bracket. And I just want to give a shout out to Nezumi still in Sweden, David Campo doing his level best to provide an excellently designed product at a reasonable price. My personal preference is the voiture still. I have the very first original one from Nezumi, plus a bunch of other ones since. But I only really wear the original and I love it. And the other one I did consider was the Swatch Blanc Pan. What's it called? Ocean of Storms. I always want to give it a really dark name like Ocean of Sighs or Ocean of Sorrows, but I think it's Ocean of Storms, the black one. I like that. I think it's cool, it's within budget and yeah, what do you think about those Blancpain, David, any good for you?
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I love the Blancpain 50 fathoms. And we've talked before about what we think about Blancpain, what we think the brand should do or should not do. They look fantastic. I just. The. The Moon Swatch was its own thing. The Blancpain, the. The swatch 50 fathoms just looks like a 50 fathoms done in plastic, and I think that's cool. It's. It's not like I don't think it should exist. I just. It's not for me. I'm of the mind. Like, if I can't afford the actual thing, I'd rather spend my money on. Yeah. Something a little bit, I want to say more honest. That's not really fair to the people that designed the project. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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B
Let's push the envelope there, though. You say you don't want to say you don't think it should exist, but everything else you're saying around that suggests that you don't think it should exist. So do you not think it should exist? Was it a misstep?
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Like I said, it definitely was trying to ride the coattails of the Moonswatch, and they were trying to be a little opportunistic with it. It's like someone at Swatch was saying, okay, the Moonswatch did killer numbers. It's going to be talked about for decades in business school cases. So who do we go with next? And we made some predictions around this, and I think we were all wrong. It was like, early 2024, and then went with Blancpain, which is an interesting choice, I suppose. Should it have existed? Should it exist? Someone in Swatch knows, like, are they making money on it? I presume so, or they wouldn't still sell them. It just seems to me like they could have done a little bit more like, you know, pollen. Pollen. I forget the name of their new dive watch. What's it. You'll have. You're gonna have to tell me out the Mara Mare so that anyone that's listening to this, please just open up a browser and go check it out. Because that, to me, is the sort of avenue they could have gone with. With the Blancpain. It's like the same basic shape, but the dial is very playful. And the watch just comes across as much more whimsical, like Swatch. Swatch Watch is the whimsical brand of the Swatch group. And I just think that they could have done a little bit more to play with the motifs rather than just straight up make the 50 fathoms in plastic.
- [09:12]
B
Interesting. I'm getting a muddled image of what you're trying to describe here. I mean, it sounds like you're saying it should be simultaneously less serious and more shit, or is it too serious and too shit at the same time? I'm not sure. Because, look, the reason why I always gravitate towards the ocean of storms, I'm pretty sure that's what it is. It's because it's the most subdued. It's all black. Even the movement, which I. Because I really dislike. These bright blue printed motifs on the other movements, it seems like the most respectable of the bunch, the most wearable of the bunch, the others. And I don't know why this didn't hit me quite so hard with the moon swatches. Maybe because I thought the concept was a bit better and a bit tighter and a bit more keenly executed. They just look like toys, like the yellow one, the green one, the pink one, the white's pretty cool. And, you know, the blue Atlantic one is all right. I'd say those two are easily the best of the original five, but what's going on with that?
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A
But isn't the Swatch a toy to begin with? That's the idea, right?
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B
And it's the thing, isn't it? That's. Sorry to interrupt, but the Blancpain coming in all serious and all blah, blah, blah. Like, surely it can't be that toyish. Or if it's gonna be toyish, does it need to be more toyish? Should the cases have been like translucent plastic or something to give more of an idea of water, perhaps? Like, that's. I'd never thought of that before, but that might have been quite cool to try that, you know, why not?
- [10:40]
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Like, a jellyfish would have been awesome. Like a jellyfish theme, like. See, No, I mean, the thing is, look, the margins on these things must be crazy because it's a €500 watch, last time I checked, somewhere around there. And it's one of their system 51 movements, which is assembled by robots, and then their bio ceramic case, which is essentially plastic. Right? So, like, the margins must be insane. It's just. It's hard, you know, at €500, you can get a lot of other stuff which is going to be more, quote, honest watchmaking. That does not mean I don't think it should exist. I think Hatsaw Look, Swatch took Blancpain, which is a crazy serious brand, and gave it the moonswatch treatment. So hats off to them for trying something but you're right, I think they could have gone even farther. Like a clear case would have been awesome. Super luminous face to go along with that would have been awesome. Like if you're going to charge that much for a watch with relatively low input costs, go nuts on one of those inputs like super high lume or some cool looking case. And yeah, give consumers like you're saying rob, something different to latch onto.
- [11:41]
B
Yeah, I think that they went gimmicky in the wrong way with the decoration of the movements. Now I will say this. I love the fact that it is a, a system 51 because that's an interesting movement and that's a great development. And hats off to Swatch for making that automatic. And two, the fact that it is an automatic and therefore fulfills the. There has never been a quartz blanc pan and there never will be. That's a really cool, nice little addition to the story. But yeah, if they, if they'd made the cases like translucent and we had like a blue one and a white one, maybe sort of a tealish one that really felt a bit more like an ocean color than the bright green Indian Ocean one or whatever it was, and then they'd given me a system 51 that was actually not that decorative, like black maybe with just Blancpain written on it without all the colorful printing, then, you know, I might have been like, that's cool enough for me to take a flyer on. That feels like a summer watch I could wear.
- [12:38]
A
Yeah, totally fair. I think this can be one of those things that makes sense without making sense. Like Omega with the Moonwatch, Moonswatch. I mean, it's in the name. Like, it, it works fantastically. I'm just trying to rack my brain like we talked about this before and I think a Hamilton or something would have made more sense. Tissot. Probably not, because it's already entry level. The idea of a Blompin Swatch is already pretty out there. And yeah, I think they could have just gone a little far with, farther with. I love it exists. If that makes you happy, go for it. But yeah, I think it would have taken a little bit. It would have taken some more whimsy to get me to spend that much money on the product as it is.
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B
I honestly can't remember what I went for at the time when we were predicting what Omega's Omega, sorry, Swatch Group's next step could have been after the Omega Swatch collab. I can't imagine I would have put my money on Tissot or Hamilton because I Don't think the price differential is enough, you know, if you. Okay, so you can buy a decent Hamilton for 500 quid.
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Right.
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In fact, to be honest, if you want a Swatch Group product, that's probably the place to go if that's your spending power. That or a Tissot prx. If you make a plastic Tissot, how much do you charge for it? 35 quid?
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Sure.
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B
I don't know. So, interesting discussion evolving from that initial question, but we have three more categories to address, so we're gonna move on to the 1000 pound ceiling. Now. I'm gonna stick within the ceiling. Are you gonna stick within the ceiling or are you gonna play a bit of a wild card here and take something around that price?
- [13:59]
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Yeah, like we were talking about before, we recorded in for a penny, in for a pound. So someone will have to forgive me if I'm off by a little bit, but we'll be in the vicinity for sure.
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B
Okay, I'll go first for this one. I'm gonna take. It didn't come to me immediately, but it's very unsurprising. Nobody will be amazed by my pick. I'm going for the Denison ALD Dual time with an Aventurine dial and bracelet. I think that's a stunning combo. Excellent setup and it will be my next Denison. In fact, it's already on order. So. Yeah, that was the one watch in the last, I think maybe even 12 months that I was ravenous for. I just saw it and I was like, oh, this is a beaut for basically no money in our hobby. I know it's still a grand. It's not like a throwaway piece, but given the, the wave upon which Dennison is surfing, the wealth of positive feeling towards the brand, my personal relationship with Stefan and Toby behind the scenes, like, I can't say there's anything better for that money. And the bracelet was home run, instant success. I love it. I'd like to see you pick a better watch for under a thousand euros or pounds. Sorry.
- [15:14]
A
Well, better is going to be subjective and I am going to cheat not on the price here, but on the number of suggestions that I give you. So the first one I'm going to say is nakedly self interested, but it's not. So if you don't know the real time show, we don't take any ad money and it allows us to say some of the things that we say. So the revenue comes from really awesome watches that Robin Allen design in collaboration with people that they like in the industry. And the collaboration that I was first able to get into, which was TRTS collab number two, was the Circula Pro Trail. Now, Circula is a brand you might not have heard of. They're out of Germany, they're run by a really nice guy named Cornelius who's very active in our WhatsApp group. So let us know if you want to join and you can interact with him. And the Pro trail is basically their interpretation of a field watch. But what I really like and what kind of set my engineer brain off was the fact that they really go nuts on the technology. And for the money, you get a lot. You get case hardening, you get anti magnetism on the movement, you get a bunch of Lume quick release spring bars. It's just a really tight package for less than a grand. So I bought that. And then if you want to go over the budget, if you have more to spend, you can also get the the hardened bracelet to go along with it, which looks pretty brutal. I don't usually opt for that. I tend to stick for the the black nylon strap. But it's a really solid choice, so that is worth checking out. And then my second choice is back to the Swatch group, the Certina DS PH1000M, I think it's called. So it's a diver reissue from the 1970s. I'm undecided. I haven't bought one. I'd like to and I think I haven't done it yet because I haven't decided on the color. They make a typical black one, which would look great for everyday use, but they also make a really nice teal one, I think we can call it, for sea turtle conservation, which just looks really fun. It's just a little more limited because it's more of a summer watch. But those would be my two picks if I had a thousand pounds to spend.
- [17:15]
B
I've not seen that teal certino. I don't think I'm a huge fan of that line. When I was at Fratello, I remember reviewing hands on a dark blue dial with a ceramic sort of bubble bezel insert with rose gold accents in the DS Phantom line. And it was around a thousand. Again, it was like €980 or something. And it is an absolutely ridiculously heavy hitting proposition at three figures. It's great. That's a brilliant choice, mate. I'd doff my cap to you. Both of them are great. I also wear my circular Pro Trail trtsse on the nylon strap. Always been My preference, I think that it allows the case architecture to shine a bit more. You know, it blends into the bracelet very nicely. And if you're a bracelet man or woman, then go for that because it's excellently made and again just an exceptional component for the money. But I love the nylon. I love the contrast and I think that it works with the black Explorer layout dial that we put together with Cornelius. And he is a great guy and he does things the right way. He takes time over designing new products and you know that when you put your money down on the circular you are going to get something very satisfying that will last you for life. I really, really love the Satina pick. I'm going to check out that teal dial. I also love turtles. So yeah, anytime I can support a turtle, you got me. I'm not kidding. They're like top five animals for me. So maybe let's put that on, Put that on the list of questions. What are our top five animals? I'll let you make notes when I'm answering because that's always funn. Turtles are going to be in there for me. But where will they claim the top spot? You'll have to tune into TRTS and find out. Kidding. We're going to answer it later today. Okay, moving on to the next category. I'm going to make you go first on this one. 3000 GBP. Now it's not as heavily populated with well known names as it used to be as you said to begin with. So this is really the preserve for many new micros and entry level brands. What did you go for?
- [19:21]
A
No. So you're right. As, as prices have moved up over the last two, three years, you have to really do some searching and that's one wrinkle that we'll add at the very end. If you know what to look for. There's some bargains out there. But for now sticking to msrp. I'm going to be self interested again and say that I have on my wrist currently the Alpena Sea Strong diver that just came out. That is our fourth collab. I believe it is on the Black Strat. But there is also an orange strap that I have just found out exists and I'm going to be buying that prob today or tomorrow. It looks awesome. It's. I say that it's anonymous in the best way possible in the sense that I know what it is. But I can wear it more or less anywhere and not have to worry about it. It's just a really good piece of Equipment that does what it needs to and I don't really give it a second thought or I can look at it and say this looks awesome. So that would be a great choice. If you have not even 3000, it's like 1900. No, it's, I'm sorry, 2180 I think is the price, Rob. So just over 2000. Well under 3000. So do check that out if you want to stay more conventional and that's totally fine. I was thinking really, really, really hard about a well known brand that you can get into for £3,000 and I think the only thing I come up with was Tudor. I don't know that I have a specific model in mind because I don't have the price book in mind. But if someone wants a good watch that has pedigree, that'll look good with anything that will last a lifetime, it's really hard to top Tudor. So I'd say Tudor. Maybe a black bay of some kind. But yeah, that'd be my choice.
- [21:00]
B
Good choices. I love the Black Bay 36. I prefer the original smiley face dial with the. I think it was a Sellita or an eta. I think they might have bounced between both calibers for a while. Don't quote me on that. But I missed the opportunity to get one when they were really cheap. I actually did buy one on vinted for 900, 980 quid all in box and papers. But then the guy cancelled the sale like a few days later. Probably did a bit more research and realized he could have got another 500 quid on top at least back then. And now getting one under three even on the pre owned market can be a challenge for that smiley face era. Although great brands, a lot of name power behind it for that kind of price point. So another good choice. You'll be pleased to know, David, that I have confirmed my list of animals, top five animals. So yeah, get working on that. I am gonna have to be biased as well. We didn't intend for this to be such a, a pitchy show, but yeah, for 3,000. For me, the only brand I would go for that doesn't feature on the list elsewhere is Straum. So I'm slightly biased towards the TRCS special, but I like all of the standards Jan Mayan collection, particularly the titanium case models that came out recently. Mostly because they just look so, so good against the variety of rubber strap colors that the guys have developed. The quick release on that strap is a thing of beauty. It's a very tight package. Yes, I'm biased take it with a pinch of salt. But go and have a look at Straum S T R A U M co these watches are under 2000 GBP, so there's plenty of space in the price. You can get one of these and a Denison if your budget is 3K. And that's not a bad two watch collect collection really because you would have two of the most interesting dialed watches in the industry for a very reasonable price and they both do very different things. The Denison is obviously a great grab and go dress watch. It slides under a cuff exceptionally easy thanks to that case designed by Emmanuel Gates who we know is responsible for the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore. And then the Straum is deliberately designed to exist in harsh conditions and be on your wrist when you're out in the wild tackling whatever adventures you may care to tackle. So that was my choice for sub three and now we move on to sub £5,000. And I did allude to the fact that this brand does produce watches under 3000 that I would also buy and actually also own. But my choice from Fortis is the Nova Nort Legacy Edition. Any Nova naught I can get on board with. I love the steel version myself because I love the weight of it. But the new titanium one is a sweet colorway and it wears like a dream and it's got a huge, huge amount of risk presence for the money.
- [23:48]
A
I think that is a great choice. And actually this is the segment that is very much the hardest because all of the names that you would have thought of five, ten years ago knew you're really not getting anything for £5,000. Like just. I was just kind of, while Rob was talking, I was trying to get some idea of like, okay, maybe I could do this. No, that doesn't work. Okay, maybe I could do the Hermes HC or 8. No, that's too much. There's really not much you can do. And then a lot of the Indies are well below still that price level. So the only one I could think of, and this is going to be way, way below that 5,000 mark, is a Zen chronograph which no one really ever talks about. And I am dying here because as I'm talking about it, it's. I've forgotten about it. Rob, it's. Maybe you can help me out. It's not the easy M10 that would have been my choice, but it's just not versatile enough and it's been discontinued. Great brand, super high tech, good looking. If that's what you're into and really good value for money.
- [24:46]
B
I got a lot of time for Zinn. My first expensive watch I ever bought for myself was the Zinn Hydro ux, the oil filled quartz version. I say expensive. It was a huge amount of money for me at the time. It was about 1,500 quid. One of my favorites is a comper layout chronograph, or a bicompact as people like to call them these days. Whether that's technically correct or not is the 356, which is a lovely watch. Very compact, quite thick. Yeah. Available in three colorways. There's a sort of classic version with a, I'd say charcoal fume, old radium lume, black sub dials. There's one with a darker grey dial, brighter numerals, silver sub dials. And then I think my pick of the bunch would be the Panda. So the white dial with the black sub dials, it's called the 356 Flieger Classic W. But there are a great many excellent chronographs from Zinn. I mean, Zinn makes a superb product. There's no two ways about it. Nearly all serious watch fans hold Zen up there in great esteem because they are just churning out top quality, rugged, reliable timepieces for still a reasonable amount of money.
- [25:53]
A
Yeah, so the I was able to find this. It is the Zinn 936. There's runs about €3,500. 3,500, 4,000, depending on where you look, depending on the bracelet option you get. But yeah, that's been on my mind for a long time. I just don't need another watch and I've got other stuff to do in my life. But if I had that much money burning a hole in my pocket, I think that would be the one can we rob. So I don't know that we want to like double the length of the episode just talking about this, but can we talk some used options? What do you think of that?
- [26:24]
B
Yeah, 100%. Let's see what we can get for these. Well, all these values for used or just a couple of choice ones maybe?
- [26:30]
A
Yeah, maybe the three and the five. I think that's where it gets interesting.
- [26:33]
B
Okay. Okay, go ahead.
- [26:35]
A
So I really do think the watch industry, it's like anything, the more, you know, the more power you have to, to to deploy your funds wisely. And I think that with the amount of watches that have been released and the fact that these are meant to last for life, if you dig around some of the usual places and some of the not so usual places, there's just a ton of value. A ton, ton of value. So for 3,000 British pounds used on say a Chrono 24, you can get a lot. You can definitely, you can get Omegas for a thousand. Now it depends what omega you're looking for, but you can definitely get an older Omega chronograph. You can get an older Omega Aqua Terra. I think that's super interesting. Above the €5,000 mark, then you're talking. My favorite brand is Omega, so I'm just using Omega as an example. But definitely like an Aqua Terra, a newer Aqua Terra, you can get a 300m which is maybe my favorite dive watch of all time. Around that price all day for like €4,500 you can find. The list could go on and on and on. I mean if you have £5,000, not euros but pounds to spend, you're getting a lot of watch on a used marketplace. So have fun, look around and never get too wrapped up in one watch because just the nature of the market is something else is always going to come down the pipeline. But yeah, have a good time looking.
- [27:56]
B
If I had 5000 GBP to spend on Chrono 24 on a pre loved model, I think I would try and sneak into the bottom end of the Blancpain Le Mans Flyback chronographs that are available because I think that that is. There's a couple of watches, there's The Breguet tradition, 37 mil in rose gold preferably. And this Blancpain which just are ridiculously cheap versus their retail. So the Breguet still goes for around 35,000 Euros. So let's say about 30,000 pounds. You can pick one of those up good condition boxes and papers very often for around €14,000. So even less, you know, I'd say around 35%, 40% of the retail. And they're often box fresh. You know, these models are the kind of thing that people do, baby, a little bit. They sometimes safe queens. You can get great stuff all over the world. Obviously it's always great to buy pre loved from Japan because the Japanese really take care of their watches and you often find them to be extremely high grade when you buy them. The downside of course is you generally have to pay like a 20% on top import fee when they come into Europe. But if you're out in Japan or if you're thinking of buying a watch of that value. No word of a lie. I checked this out recently. Because I was having dinner with my mate Nikolai lund, a photographer, Mr. Traveltime on Instagram. And he was wearing a Breguet tradition 37 mil rose gold black dial. And I was saying, that is awesome. We swapped watches for dinner. Actually I was wearing his, he was wearing my stroud. And I said, I've got to get one of these, they're incredible. And he was like, well, you know, there's a couple of really good options available right now, especially the ones in Japan. They're about, about 14K. So I checked out flights to Tokyo thinking, okay, I don't want to pay €2,800 and change to have it imported and I could get a round trip to Tokyo with a couple of nights in a hotel for around a thousand euros. I think the flights were about 500. And then, you know, hotel, if not a very expensive hotel, you could get one or two nights for 500 quid. It's like, so that's gonna save me 2,000. I get to go to Tokyo to actually see the watch in person. And there's plenty on the street, you know, in Japan's many, many excellent stacked from floor to ceiling watch boutiques and get it. And I honestly advocate for that kind of thing. If you, if you live in London, for example, there was a period of time and I'm not sure what the international pricing strategy of Nomos is exactly like now, but when I was working for Nomos, the watches in the UK were 10 to 15% more expensive than they were in Europe. And so given the fact you can get a return on the Eurostar for about 70 quid if you pick the right times, you, if you work in London, you could have got down to Paris, gone and bought yourself a Nomos zurich Weltzeit for 4,500 and then got back on the train after lunch and come home just in a single day, you can just go pick it up from another country. You don't have to get on a plane and you save yourself cash. So if you have the time, if you have the inclination, going to destinations to buy your watch in person is not as crazy as you think. Of course then you're probably technically a smuggler, but we'll leave that to your own conscience to deal with. It's just something to point out. But there's that Breguet and then there's the Blancpain in terms of like absolute bang for buck on the pre love market.
- [31:19]
A
Yeah. In no way is Rob advocating that you should not declare, but I will say they don't always charge you. No you like you can declare and then after it's up to them whether they charge you or not. But yeah, I think look, even if you did it the right way, it's still a fun story. And Japan is a place that is I have not visited yet. I think I hear their watch ecosystem is incredible. But again it just comes down to have a good time, take your time and realize that £5,000 Euros dollars is a ton of money. You should be able to expect to get a ton of watch and you can nowadays just comes down to how much you know and how willing to be patient you are.
- [31:59]
B
I mean that's the best thing about this slightly suppressed era in which we're living. You can get watches on the pre owned marketplace at a reasonable price and if I had £3,000 to spend, what I would buy for that reasonable price would be a Cartier Santos Galbe, smaller diameter, probably around 33. And I would look for bi color. I would look for sharp crisp edges on the bezel insert I suppose we say or you know, dial surrounding gold because they often get polished to heck if if they're not well cared for. But that for me is it's a no brainer. It's a great watch. There's loads of cool vintage Cartiers and Cartier is one of those major brands that I think I would delve into the vintage sphere because they just seem to look cooler with time.
- [32:47]
A
Yeah, great choice. Nothing to say. I own a Cartier Santos, one of the newer blue ones and looks fantastic. That one probably not gonna get for 3,000 bucks but the gal bay is an excellent choice and one you can look if you. My wife actually I could share the Cartier that she has. So yeah, if that's what you're inclined to do. If you want to get a pass from your partner for buying a watch, just say you can share it and get yourself a Galve.
- [33:12]
B
There you go. Watch to keep peace within the family unit. Have you decided on your top five animals yet or do I have to wait for you to write these down?
- [33:19]
A
Yeah, okay, I'll give them to you. It's fine. So real quickly, I love dogs. I own two love dogs.
- [33:25]
B
What dogs are your number one?
- [33:27]
A
Yeah, I love dogs.
- [33:29]
B
The number one animal in the world is a dog.
- [33:31]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:31]
B
Not even a wolf?
- [33:33]
A
No, no, no. Well, my dogs are wolves. They're very small chihuahuas but they're wolves though, trust me.
- [33:39]
B
All right.
- [33:39]
A
Yeah. So next would be my wife loves panda bears so I'm going to represent Keep. Keep the peace and say panda. But I love panda bears, too. I don't know that they're the smartest animals, but panda bears are great.
- [33:50]
B
You know, if I edit this really cruelly, I can just stop after you say my wife, because number two, take off the words.
- [33:57]
A
Yeah, yeah, my wife.
- [34:01]
B
Yep, that would be you in trouble. Let's move on.
- [34:03]
A
Number three.
- [34:04]
B
My wife.
- [34:05]
A
Yeah, number. Number three. I mean, this is where it gets a little bit tough. Trying to think, like, you know, funnily
- [34:14]
B
enough, I've got your wife at number three on my list. Did you know that? Coincidence in it? I'm kidding.
- [34:20]
A
The top grade bands, as the. As the British would say, you know, I guess it's hard not to rank them based on, like, cuteness. I feel like there's got to be, you know, I got to show some aggression. But, you know, I'll tell you what, Rob. I'm at a loss for the last three, how I'm gonna rank them. So give me your first two, and I'll come back with my third.
- [34:41]
B
All right. My favorite animal in the world is an octopus. Okay. It probably doesn't surprise you. I think I'm. I'm quite like a human octopus as far as I go. Fingers in many pies, multiple brains, just loads of arms. They can change color. They can squeeze themselves into tiny spaces. They are not of this world. There is no way that they are not aliens that have come from another distant planet somewhere and our Earth, their home, thankfully. They're just super cool, really clever, and there's nothing quite like an octopus. Number two. And I can't laugh too much at your choice of chihuahuas as number one, because this is quite a basic British animal that many people have had as a pet. I like hares or rabbits. I love the speed, their awareness, their social behaviors, and there is. I think that is a super cool. So I love hares. Yeah, I think that they're a great icon in. Especially in British folklore as well. So got a lot of time for them. Number three is where the turtles sit. So specifically, turtles more than tortoises. I think that they are weirdly unique creatures. The way that they are built, the way that they live for so long, the way that they float around in the ocean going about their own business. I think there's very little like them. And of course, I was a fan of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, as they're known around the world now. You know, they were called the Teenage Mutant Hero turtles in the UK when I was a kid.
- [36:17]
A
I do. I Used to. Used to watch that when I was visiting my cousins. So, yeah, they also.
- [36:22]
B
People can't believe that now because the word ninja was outlawed to say.
- [36:27]
A
Yeah, fun fact. Contra was called probotector or something in Germany, and it was robots rather than people. So if you played contra back in the day. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, we're way off topic here, but back to my favorite animals, dolphins. I think they're really smart. I respect that. Number four would be the rooster, because that is the. That is the French, you know, French symbol, which I think is awesome. You know, I was just thinking, like, for number five, I do have a five in mind. America is big on mascots, and two of the three schools I went to have mascots. One is an owl, the other one's a longhorn. I'm not as sentimental about my alma maters as other people are, so I think we can leave those aside. So my number five would be a giraffe. I think, to your point, Rob, like the octopus looks like an alien. Giraffe looks really weird, too. And I just think it's neat how the world started from nothing. And you get a lot of different things, and some are consistent and some aren't, and the giraffe is not very consistent. So, yeah, let's go, giraffe.
- [37:27]
B
Very high blood pressure. It suits. Suits someone in the watch industry, but fascinatingly, only the same amount of bones in their neck as a human, but just bigger. Today I learned number four for me is a condor. I often say that I would love to be reborn as a condor, or reincarnated, I think would be the term, because they just have the most chill life ever, like floating around on warm air currents, like, you know, gracefully gliding above the globe, looking down from their imperious vantage point. I think that condors are super cool. Number five for me is probably the creature on this list with whom I share the most similar body type, and that's a rhino. I love rhinos.
- [38:08]
A
Good choice.
- [38:09]
B
Just massive tanks. Okay, so there we go. That was an interesting amusing aside. Let's move on to a question about watches and hope that someday, somewhere, we see more Chihuahuas, Octopidis, and condors on the back of watch cases. Next question. This one comes in from Ed Black, and I suppose it's mostly focused on me, but I'd love your perspective on this as well. It says, what can you share about the life of a watchmaker that will be honest but attractive to get more people into this profession? I guess I should start. It's extremely rewarding fixing things is a lot of fun. It makes you feel more connected, I think, to the world around you. We don't want to gender the career or interests or hobbies more than is necessary. But generally speaking, for men who have a habit of toolifying the world around them and getting to grips with things in a very physical capacity, it can be an almost primal satisfaction. I know, like most of the female watchmakers I know are extremely talented artisans. Very delicate, fine touch, great tools as well. But they look at it from maybe a more artistic perspective. And, yeah, I tend to look at it from a more primitive angle, I guess. I love the idea of bringing something mechanical to life. This feeling that every thing on your watchmaker's bench in front of you has been made by human hands. Machines, ingenuity, and that it can be put together in such a way to tick so accurately as to track the passing of our lives is something I've never really managed to get over. Like, it's bewitching. It drags me into the romance of watchmaking, and I never, ever get tired of that. There are drawbacks, of course, and Ed has framed this question rather wisely, because there are obviously negatives. You know, you have to have a huge amount of focus. You have to treat your body well to be able to do the job at the highest levels. You generally have to work very early hours. Watchmakers tend to start around 7am and finish around 3. That isn't a hard and fast rule across the board, but it is generally how things go. There's a lot of training involved. There isn't a huge amount of money in it unless you're in the very upper echelons. But years ago, when I was being pushed down a more academic path, I stopped and I thought to myself, well, what kind of job will be future proof or as future proof as we could conceive? In the early 2000s, when I was going to university and I thought, I want to be a tradesman, I want to be a craftsman, I want to do something with my hands. I want to have a skill that can't easily be replaced by new software or technology. Most people on the street probably think that robots make watches already, and they do make things like the system 51 to which you alluded earlier. But still, mechanical watches require a human touch, especially the very, very, very top end things like the record beat in Bulgari, Otto Finissimo tourbillons and chronographs and perpetual calendars and all these kind of things. They need a fine touch. They need a mind that can think laterally and not just linearly. So I chose this career for that reason, because I thought it was something that would probably persist at least throughout my lifetime. And I think it probably will be born out to be close enough to correct on that, for it to have been a wise choice. And I would say to any young person looking for a job that provides that kind of satisfaction and allows you to touch on the worlds of art and science simultaneously and also become something of a philosopher through your work. Watchmaking is a great choice. Don't underestimate how hard it is. Don't underestimate the dedication, the sacrifice, and the time that it takes to get to a decent. But I think that it's one of those industries that needs people, and therefore you have a chance of making it a lifelong career if you take it.
- [42:17]
A
Yeah, I don't have anything direct to add other than. So I studied mechanical engineering in college, so I had the same attraction to mechanical things as you did, Rob. I think the critical thing for my life anyways is that I graduated in 2006, which was before Instagram, before watches really took off. I had no exposure to it at all. But I'd like to think that maybe if I were redoing my life now, that might be something I'd gravitate towards. Because if you're interested in mechanical systems, there's obviously not only watches, but watches are deeply satisfying in the sense that they're meant to be beautiful as much as they are functional, which I think is great. The only thing I would add, I have tinkered with watches. I've bought a little watchmaker bench. I've taken movements apart. I obviously have not worked in the industry like Rob has, but I would just say based on what I've followed in my career, and that's really the thinking that's actually gotten me here on the Real Time show is that definitely do. Do what you want to do. I don't think you're going to get in trouble studying watchmaking if you follow the advice Rob gave, which is understand it's really hard. Remember, I have. I have a master's in engineering, and I still see some of these watchmaking books, and they blow my mind. Like, there is real math. It's not just swapping out batteries. There's a lot more to it than that. So it's very hard. You do have to be very focused. And like Rob said, there's some constraints around lifestyle. But I would say beyond that, try and do whatever Your main passion is overlap it with something else. So Rob, for example, started as a watchmaker, but he got into journalism and now design, so he brings all of that together. For me, I started as an engineer, but I started learning about watches so I could kind of cross over from one to the other. And I wrote a lot and I developed opinions and I became not afraid to share those. And that's what got me onto the Real Time show. If you want to learn another language, like French or German or not your mother tongues, maybe you learn those because, believe it or not, in Switzerland, people speak English. I'm not trying to stereotype here, but at the watchmaking level, there's a lot of French and there's not as much English as you might think. So if you can be the person that translates, literally translates from one side to the other, that's a big source of value. Or maybe you go to watchmaking school and then decide business is interesting, so you do some higher business education. All of a sudden you're planning production, and you can do that because you understand at the watchmaking level. So I would say follow what it is that you want to do and then try and branch out from that so you can be the only one that knows what you know how to do.
- [44:47]
B
You know, that's really, really good advice, David. And you're a great example of somebody who has a professional career and high level of education in a tangen field to watchmaking, who has taken their passion and become part of the industry and a valuable component thereof because you aren't constrained by being officially employed in the watchmaking hierarchy. So your insights are very valuable. And you're not wrong. The French domination of the workflow in Switzerland is a serious thing. And it's. You would not believe how much time and money is spent by brands in the product development phase just trying to communicate exactly what they want. So if, for example, you have a passion for watchmaking and you have a talent for languages, that is a great route to follow. I do get asked a lot of the time about starting or transitioning from an existing career into watchmaking. And normally the people that are asking me are people like you that have very established careers and a great deal of experience in their current field, and they're at quite a high level, maybe not surprising, because they're into luxury watchmaking. So, you know, they've had the exposure to this industry, maybe through being consumers, and their expectations are very often much higher than what the industry can offer in the early days at least. You know, if you're a banker, for example. And you've been on that path all the way through your youth, through your education. You've come out, you've walked into a nice job, you know, you're earning six figures, you're buying luxury watches and you're like, you know, my passion is watchmaking. I don't really want to be a banker for the rest of my life. I want to do something that really resonates with me personally. I think I might try and step sideways into the industry. The step down from that kind of salary and that kind of lifestyle to where you need to start to become a watchmaker specifically is massive. And there are so many people that want to do the same thing. My advice would be try and keep your hobby, as much of a hobby as you can, for as long as you can become part of the industry in exactly the way you have David. Find a media title that is looking for interesting alternative perspectives from well educated people from outside of this sphere and establish a name for yourself. Take some time to figure out where you will fit. Like David says, find your role, find your lane. Don't chuck in your big city job and your six figure salary and go to wo step in Neuchatel and expect that you'll be working at the knee of carry over to line in the next two or three years if you last that long, like dip your toe in a lot of these major events. Now. Welcome people, visitors, guests, come network, talk to people. See what you can do now alongside your job. See if that can become a career organically and get you into the industry at a level that matches the lifestyle to which you've become accustomed to or a lifestyle that you would be comfortable living and do it that way. Because as romantic as it is to jack in a career and go and be an artisan on the side of a Swiss Alp, it's a huge amount of pressure. It'll put a huge amount of pressure on you. Your family life, if you have a family, and it could easily alienate you against the craft. So if you want to get your start in journalism, reach out to us. You know what the Real Time show is here for. It's designed as a platform to broaden the scope of voices in Watch. So you're more than welcome to get in touch.
- [48:22]
A
Yeah, and I'll just be a little provocative. You don't necessarily have to go to watchmaking school to get noticed. I follow several Instagram accounts of people that just got started. They're like, I'm going to buy an old Watch and redo it or I'm going to polish a case and see what happens. So if what you want to do is to switch careers, I would say if first of all, if you're in a job where you're working all the time, fix that first. You should have time to explore other things and once you have done that, start doing, start posting and, and get into it that way. I, I follow a surprising number of people who just basically bought George Daniels book and, and made a watch, which is insane to me, but they did it. And that to me is just as valid as going to watchmakers. Well, Rob, you might disagree with that, but you're still a watchmaker at that
- [49:08]
B
point, so I don't disagree with you at all. Far from it. No, I, I think actually it's an interesting thing to train as a watchmaker, as I did at the British School of watchmaking on the 3,000 hour, well, step course, which is two years full time, is a particular kind of dedication, but it isn't the only way you can dedicate your life to the craft. I mean, at the end of that course, what was I able to do? I was able to make components like stems, balance staffs, the odd wheel even. Although we didn't have very many great wheel cutting tools in, in the school in those days, they have got better tools now, thankfully, so people can do more expensive stuff. But beyond that, I mean, I could fix quartz movements, I could service chronographs, automatics. And then you go out into the real world, you get your first bench position. Mine was with Omega, of course, as I was an Omega apprentice. And you really like with your driving test, you know, when you pass your driving test, you can't really drive. Same with being a watchmaker. They say it takes 10,000 hours to become a master of any craft. And with watchmaking it probably takes even more, to be honest. But those first 3,000 hours are just, just foundational. It's just groundwork. It doesn't touch on things like dial making, hand making, case making, bracelet making, even finishing. You know, you don't have to be able to do everything at once. You don't have to be George Daniels. Very, very few people are. Very few people aspire to and they probably shouldn't. You could become a weekend enamel, making beautiful enamel dials and mastering that craft over a couple of years in your spare time. And then you could buy off the shelf 6498s or 7s. You know, get some cases from China, buy a pad printer, they're not very expensive and they're relatively easy to learn to use. With the advent of laser technology and the cheapness of cliche plates, it's actually affordable to do that kind of thing yourself with your own typography. Experiment with inks, of course, because pad printing onto enamel does take quite a while to get used to. But you could do it any way you want. You know, you could become an expert in the weirdest nichest field and you can make that your usp. Like, for example, the one thing I was better than everybody else at at school was bluing by hand. So I could blue much larger components than one would expect. Like in my school watch that I built for graduation, I blued an entire a snailed, a double snailed ratchet wheel, and it's a totally uniform blue. And I did it by hand. And that was the thing of which I was most proud. And there were much better watchmakers than me in the course across the board in terms of cleanliness or accuracy or fine finishing, for example. But nobody could blue like I could blue. And that was my little thing. So I just made that, like, central to my, my career at that point. So, yeah, you just need to find your niche and then become a master of that. And everyone has a role to play. They just need to find it. Let's move on to what will be probably our last question today, and it's a difficult one to answer. This is from Lawrence and he says maybe my question would be better posed to Max Busser, but for even more eclectic minds being you guys, what if you could totally redesign an icon? Which icon would you choose and what would you do with it?
- [52:20]
A
So tough. Because an icon is an icon for a reason. So then the question is, is there anything that you don't like on certain icons? You know, I'm going to be provocative here and say that I would redesign a Royal Oak because I want to wear a Royal Oak, but I don't want to be associated with the kind of person that wears a Royal o Oak. So I would redesign the Royal Oak for that reason. And quick plug, we have an article coming up on that at some point, and I. I named the Royal Oak specifically. But if I were to redesign any icon, it wouldn't be because I don't like the way the watch looks. I think it's cool, but I'm just over everything that watch represents. And so I'd want to just do something totally different so I could wear a Royal Oak quote unquote, like David's Royal Oak, without all of the connotations that go with that.
- [53:05]
B
Have you any idea exactly what you do, though? Would you change the case size or what?
- [53:10]
A
But see, that's, that's the thing, right, is like if you think of all of the icons in the watch industry, Cartier, Santos, Rolex, Submariner, Omega, you know, Moonwatch, I wouldn't change anything on those. That's they're icons. There's other watches you could pick where I might do something different. But I like how the Royal Oak looks. I think it's super unique. I think it's really well made. It's, it's a great thing. But the question never specified, give the reason for which you would redesign it. It just assumed style. But I think in watches, we're far along now, we're far along now where there's just connotations attached to everything. Everything. Like you buy Rolex, well, that means something. You buy Hublot, that means something. And on and on and on and on. And the Royal Oak, I think it's awesome. I think it's a really good piece of horology. I think it was obviously groundbreaking when it came out, but I don't want to be the one wearing a Royal Oak, to be honest with you.
- [54:01]
B
Hmm. Okay. Well, yeah, to be honest, the Royal Oak was one of the first models that popped into my head. But then I thought about, I thought I was gonna struggle to answer this question a little more than I did because I actually had a pitch, which I've mentioned before on this show at one point with Vacheron Constantin for an idea for the 222. What I would do is I take the 2, 2, 2. I would make it out of titanium, probably, probably brushed titanium. Normally I'm a fan of blasted titanium, but to retain a bit of the elegance, I would put a very highly finished, thermocompensated quartz movement in it with probably an open case back or maybe a closed case back with a nice big Maltese cross in the middle of it and that Maltese cross on the case back. If I decide to close the case back and the Maltese cross on the front of the 222 case in the bottom right hand corner, I think it is. They would be in rose gold, the bezel would be in rose gold, and the hands would be in rose gold. And the dial would either be titanium itself, or it could maybe be some kind of frosted material, either white gold or titanium. Hand hammered. Little bit of artisan, artisanal craft brought into that 222 platform. But for me, yeah, I Wanna, I wanna bi color titanium and either rose or yellow gold would be fine. 222 with a quartz movement inside it. Yeah, 37 mil.
- [55:38]
A
Someone at VC had a heart attack when you said, I put a thermocompensated quartz movement into it. Like, no disrespect to thermocompensated quartz, but it's just not, not the VC way, I don't think.
- [55:49]
B
Well, listen, right, you probably haven't heard me tell this story in the past, then if that's your, your comeback. Because I went to VC and said when I was with Fratella, we wanted to do a collab and we had a few ideas in the works with. And we were working on something with the overseas, like the, as the, the Everest model, as the base, you know, building something out of that platform. But I was like, let's do a quartz 222. Like it's bold. It's about time Quartz came back. And this was. When did I leave Fratel? 2022, I think. Or at least 23. Maybe 2023. So this was three years ago, more than three years ago. We were having this conversation and I was already feeling, quartz has got to have a new day in the sun where we need, we need to start putting it in things like the Antarctic and the Royal Oak and the Nautilus, because those are the models I actually want to buy. I want the style of the watch, but I don't necessarily want to pay the extra 15, 20 grand for the hand finish movement inside it. It's not that important to me. What I want is the, the aesthetic of. And so I go to VC and I say, here's my pitch. Did the mock up and everything. And I ran into a gatekeeper who completely poo pooed the idea because it was like, oh, we, we've never, we've never done a quartz 222 and we never will. And I was like, okay, Jean Claude Biver wannabe, you're wrong. It did exist. It existed in the past when it came out. Remember when the 222 came out, we were bang slap in the height of the quartz revolution. And, and in their eyes, it was a revolution rather than a crisis because this was this incredible new technology that was exciting and we've kind of lost that feeling for quartz because the technology has become so cheap to produce thanks to the economy of scale and the research that has been done into it ever since. But quartz is still ridiculous. The fact that you can get a natural material cut into a specific shape and Then it oscillate at 32,768 times per second is preposterous. It's magic. It's. Yeah, I've said it once already today, but witchcraft, it is just wild. And I am not a naysayer when it comes to quartz. I want it in these top level models.
- [58:03]
A
Yeah, I can respect that view. And I want to go back to something that you mentioned, the Everest. You know, when you think of redesigning an icon, that is how you do it. I did not have whatever the amount of money it cost when it came out, but that is a beautiful watch and it comes from. I don't want to say out of nowhere, and I don't necessarily. I'm not trying to imply every watch should be redesigned as if it could scale a mountain, but that is. That is a good redesign of an icon. The Everest from the base, Overseas.
- [58:33]
B
Yeah. I think that the overseas needed it, to be honest, because I've always found the overseas to be very much trailing in the Holy Trinity icon stakes. You know, for me, the 222 was the real icon of VC in the sports watch category alongside the Royal Oak and Nautilus. The Overseas, I never liked it. I respect it and I respect the way that they managed to integrate the Maltese Cross shape into the bracelet links, but I don't like it. You know, it's funny how you can sort of say, yeah, that's a pretty good design. Yeah, not a bad try, but not for me.
- [59:05]
A
You know, as we're talking, the Royal Oak was redesigned and became the Royal Oak Offshore, which has its own set of connotations associated with it.
- [59:11]
B
So the Royal Oak standard persisted alongside the Offshore. Right. So that the Offshore wasn't offshoot, whereas the 222 ceased to exist for, well, oh, well over a decade, I guess.
- [59:23]
A
Yeah. I suppose if you're getting real crazy, you and I have talked about. We've. They've definitely done dive watches that could serve as dress watches. But has anyone ever done a dress watch made into a diver? Like, what would a Patek Calatrava look like as a dive watch? I suppose if we're thinking aloud, that would be the direction I'd want to. I'd want to go with, you know, take something that is established, like a Submariner or like a Calatrava, and make it the total opposite and see what comes out of it.
- [59:53]
B
Well, that's interesting, isn't it? Because how. How easy or even possible would it be to retain the DNA of something so attuned to one form of activity and then realize it in another one without it being something completely different.
- [60:11]
A
So this is why it's good that we talk these through, because I have another example that's come to mind. Have you ever seen the Calibre de Cartier? The dive watch? Have you ever seen that one? It's been out of production for a while, and what struck me as soon as I saw it was like, that is a Cartier. Someone took a Cartier and made a dive watch out of it. So it is absolutely possible to do. This is where you probably want A.I. you just kind of put it into the computer and see what comes out. But. But it is possible, and it would be great to see some more examples.
- [60:40]
B
You could take, like, say, the old Bulgari diagonal, and then the Scuba is a dive version of that. And that's one of my favorite currently extinct watches. I'd love to see the Scuba come back. And in fact, to be honest, for a few years in a row, I think I predicted it as what Bulgari was about to drop next, and I was wrong every time. I think the last Scuba release I remember is when they did that trio of bright colors, one orange, one white, and one yellow, and then it was discontinued. I'd love to see it return. But surely that's kind of an example of what you're talking about as well, is it not?
- [61:11]
A
Yeah, I think so. And again, that's why it's great that we're actually getting to talk these through, because in my mind, I was thinking, like, no, you can't redesign an icon, but the industry has done it before, so I think it just comes down to willingness to try something new. I mean, we talked about the Blancpain redo, you know, the 50 fathoms down to the Swatch version. That's kind of an industry redesign. So is the Moonswatch, actually, now that we're talking. So there are plenty of examples off of which the industry could go, and hopefully we're in a bit of a downturn now. There's a couple ways you can go about getting out of that. If a watch brand wants to really take a swing and do something different, that could be a way to get noticed and. And maybe get some traction for themselves. And just comes down to willingness to try something new, I think. But there's plenty of case studies behind them.
- [61:57]
B
Well, let's hope that nobody has the willingness to make a Cartier tank out of bio ceramics.
- [62:02]
A
Otherwise someone at Cardi had a heart attack.
- [62:05]
B
Now, I almost gave myself one just saying out loud right before we do kill ourselves, let's wrap up this episode. Thanks to everyone that asked the questions. We look forward to receiving more of them in the mailbag. You know how to get in touch via Instagram herealtime.show or on the official website at www.therealtime.show. david can be found on IG @D a V A u C H E R and I'm there at R O B N u D D S. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay saf and keep on ticking.