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- [00:01]
A
Hi and hello watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nuts and our friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alon Ben Joseph. We have just spent a wonderful few days together in Geneva at the Geneva Watch Days fair, checking out a whole host of brands and meeting up with a lot of good friends. And today we're going to share our highlights from another excellent event with you.
- [00:23]
B
Alon.
- [00:24]
A
Is it good to be home?
- [00:25]
B
It's amazing to be home. I had an amazing time. I can't believe it that after literally attending these kinds of fairs for 45 years. Yeah, I know, I am 45 but I literally as a baby joined my parents in the stroller. But all kidding aside, I didn't expect it to be so much fun. It technically isn't a real hardcore fare because maybe it isn't in a big massive unpersonal hall, exhibition hall and running around the hotel lounges, suites. It gives a different vibe. I mean it's always a blast to hang out with you, my buddy. We did some bucket list stuff, highlights. One of my highlights is on the first morning we went for a swim at 7:00. Well actually you made me go to bed at 2:40 and we woke up at 6:40, that means four hours. And with my babies I slept more than hanging out with you. So long story short, you are bad for my health, lack of sleep, you may be an alcoholic, although we did work out a little bit with the awesome swim in Lake Le Mans in Geneva. So yeah, I'm happy to be home although my flight got canceled. Thank you klm. But I had an amazing bonus night in Geneva attending the Philips auction for charity and the Revo magazine barbecue. So fun all around.
- [02:02]
A
Yeah, well I actually worked out twice. I went swimming for the sunset as well a couple of days later. So don't blame it on me, that's all I'm saying. Say I'm bad for your health. I don't know. I don't know if it's me. You. You were that last night as well. You had an extra night then. I did. I got home, although albeit not until 5am because my plane was delayed, which meant I missed my bus from Berlin to Dresden, which itself was then massively delayed. So not a pleasant return to real life. But the few days that we had together with so many good people were just an absolute joy. And just to explain what Alon means, if this is one of the first times you listen to the Real Time show and you've not heard any of Our previous fair rundowns. When he says it's not a real fair, he means it doesn't have a centralized location. So it's very different from the concept of Watches and wonders, which occurs normally late March, early April every year, and is the other major event in the watchmaking calendar. In the case of Watches and Wonders, it's based in a huge convention hall called the Palexpo, which is right next to Geneva Airport, but inconveniently not that easy to walk to from it. It is possible, but you have to go through a maze of tunnels underneath the ground and come out in the middle of nowhere and then walk a little bit along a maiden road and then up some very steep steps to get into the facility. But there you have every brand that is officially showing at the fair occupying their own individual booths. Some of these are small, some of these are massive, depending on the budget, of course. But when it comes to Geneva watch days, the brands do several things, actually. They tend to rent a suite in either the Beau Rivage Hotel or Hotel Dangleterre, or the Four Seasons or the Ritz Carlton. These are hotels that are all on the same street, right on the side of La Clement in the direction of Cadeburge, which is the bridge that separates one side of Geneva from the other side, where you will find Rue de Rhone, which is where most of the brand's boutiques are located, and where many of them that have boutiques there host their events or entertain guests during Geneva watch days. And then the Old Town up on a hill behind it, where you'll find brands like Urvic, the Mad Gallery, Acrivia, for example. And then you can go to other events in the evenings with either legendary watchmakers like Denis Flagella from Debitune, who we saw thanks to the great organization of Marine Le monier, Brennan from 289-consulting, and events like the one we went to with fears and Sherpa, hosted by Watchmakers United at a lovely bar just at the foot of the Ferris wheel that you'll probably have seen on the banks of Lac le Man if you've ever been to Geneva or seen pictures of it online. So this fare has a much more convivial atmosphere. It's more laid back, not to say we work any less hard, but it's always a highlight in the calendar. And now we will share with you our highlights from it. So we saw about 60 brands over the four days that we were there, and even more in the evening, spilling into and out of pubs around the town. And we'll start in no particular order. I think we'll pick out brands roughly in order of how we saw them perhaps, but in no particular ranking order of what impressed us the most. Alan, I'll let you go first and then I'll respond.
- [05:12]
B
You know, honestly, I still need to decompress and digest because I literally missed a day at work. I came back, I got flooded with retail activities and the follow up of the fair for the Real Time show. So I apologize upfront for if I'm all over the place and if I linger a bit. So if I need to rack my brain, what really, really blew my mind. I was so, so happy and feel blessed to meet Josh Shapiro. So to hold his Resurgence watch in between meetings, we ran into Atelier Wen Robin. He had an amazing watch in his hands that we will discuss on the Real Time show. But I believe it's embargoed. So that blew my mind. But I didn't have enough time to play because it's so chaotic. We literally do 30 minutes appointments back to back at daytime. I believe you. And I had 60 plus meetings planned which turned into 80 plus. I was blown away by the Ming. I forgot the name. Even the chronograph with the amazing sapphire loom filled dial. I'll look it up and I'll come back to that. The highlight in a strategy perspective. The alliance forged between J and Shapiro, Fleming and Ming I think is amazing. Why? Because you see that working together creates synergy, it adds value, it creates friendships. Together we get further. And it's kind of ironic that all three of them aren't Swiss and that maybe says a lot, but I guess we'll maybe deal with that during a Q and A or an analysis episode. Do you want to jump in while I'll flip through my pictures? Because some things are embargoed so I need to watch out what I see.
- [07:22]
A
Yeah, I think we should go one at a time. You know, you mentioned something you like and I'll come back to it because the Shapiro is obviously something I'd like to comment on as well. Josh himself is an absolute gem. A lovely man, extremely humble, funny, self effacing, great dude and his work is next level. I think I made him blush a little bit by gushing about how important I think he is for the industry and how much I respect him. You know, you know, when I give compliments a lot, I'm not particularly fawning. I don't sort of like go all doe eyed and be like, oh my.
- [07:52]
B
God, I love you.
- [07:52]
A
It's quite an aggressive delivery of a compliment, like a statement of fact, which I think perturbed him a little bit in the moment when I was just preaching from my soapbox about how what he's done sets not just the bar very high for next generation, but the expectation that it can be done. The old crafts can be recovered, and it's important to recover them at all levels. You know. Yes, the mastery is maybe the most important thing to maintain the very top level, because from that other, so we say less ambitious but equally as important, offshoots can emerge. And I think he's just set the table very well for the people he's going to train coming through his business in the years to come, but also just the American watchmaking community and further afield, the desire to do what he's achieved, because it is remarkable, the quality is exceptional. We also met some of the people behind the movements in Shapiro's watches, which was excellent. We ran into people all over the place, people that you wouldn't expect to have associations with multiple different brands. They do. Obviously, movement designers don't always, in fact, rarely from an independent perspective, work directly with one brand exclusively for them. So we. We met Matthew Klugeur, did we not, who I believe had his fingers on that Shapiro movement. And he has developed his own movement, which will be released in his own eponymous brand coming soon. So keep your eyes peeled for him. He's got a lot of experience. He's a movement constructor, not a designer of watches primarily, but of the movements themselves. And in his project, the movement is certainly the focal point. And we met him at the Hothenrich's dinner on the first night, which was actually the only fondue I ate while we were there. We were so active in the evenings, I didn't really eat much fondue. But you took me along to that dinner, Alan, and it was the first time I've ever had the chance to meet with Michael and the team. And I was very impressed by what I saw. Why don't you give us a breakdown of what that brand is? Because we've not discussed it on the Real Time show before.
- [09:59]
B
Sure thing. So Michael is the English abbreviation or a translation of Michiel. We're talking about Michiel Rotenrichs, Dutch architect, that is an autodidactic watchmaker. We might know him more for the fact that he was one of the first to make 3D printed cases for his watches. The raw ornaments he rolled into going into making more and more in house into including calibers. He Actually dropped a big bomb which wasn't picked up hardcore by the media by being the first Dutch to make a real Dutch manufacture caliber. So it's called the Ornaments Nouveau. So that's really groundbreaking. He will come on the show. He already committed over a year ago because this is a shout out to my buddy Ruben Denobel, ex colleague at Ace. He is helping me at Rev Bar Crew Amsterdam. He's one of the admin team members and he joined Team Holterichs because he adores both Michiel and his watches. We will do a whole episode about that, but it was an fun, relaxed evening, like it's always with the Dutch. Right, Rob? Who parties the best? It is and are the Dutch. This is now for you to say. Yes, yes, yes.
- [11:25]
A
It's a very questionable statement. I'm not sure anyone else other than the Dutch would say that, but all right, yeah, fine, if you like.
- [11:32]
B
Well, honestly, I hung out with a lot of British this last fair. Michiel also. And the team, awesome team and an amazing, eclectic group of people. Shout out to Piano Chow is maybe in my humble opinion, the best retailer in Hong Kong. The Lavish Attic. Check it out. We invited her to be a guest as well. Well, I knew Matie Cleger already, but he was one of the guests because he helped out with that manufacturer Dutch caliber. And the team holders is very modest because they don't dare to call it manufacture. They're very intellectual, they're very philosophical and they're very modest. So they're like, should we call it in house? Should we call it manufacture? So we basically had besides fun, laughter, great food and drinks, very deep intellectual discussions about what makes it Dutch made, American made, Swiss made, German made, and when or won't you use the term in house and. Or manufacture? So that was very cool. And we'll actually continue that discussion on the mic at the Real Time show. So going from Holterich to Cleguer, he is also very modest. Great guy, very good watch, caliber, designer manufacturer, and he is going to launch a watch. If you're really, really into the Indies, the haute luxury indies, send us a DM because he's doing a susque show, a subscription run of his new watch. He doesn't want to do hardcore publicity. You know, a lot of you call us the insiders podcast in watchmaking. Some call us the Rolodex of the watch industry. Hit us up and we'll connect you just as friends. We don't sell watches on the Real Time show. We don't take commissions. We Love to connect people. So while Nokia doesn't exist anymore, or it does, Rob and I and the Real Time show are connecting people. Rob, what was your next highlight?
- [13:48]
A
So I think you'll agree with me on this one. And that was meeting somebody that I'd never thought I'd get the chance to meet, to be quite frank, because I wasn't sure how often or intimately he would be involved with the watchmaking industry going forward. But it was meeting the possibly the world's greatest tattoo artist, Mo Coppoletta, who has collaborated in the past with Bvlgari, famously on a series of Otto Finissimo watches decorated with his inimitable tattoo art style. And he has now joined the brand Gaga Laboratorio to oversee the creative direction of the brand and to bring his design sensibilities and incredible talent once again to the watch industry. And I don't ever get starstruck, really. And I don't think I came across particularly overawed by his presence because of his affability and warmth towards us and also the fact that at some point during the conversation, Alan, you teased him so intensely that he had to get up and go into the back of the room and bring out a big pile of sketches to respond to your. Your comments with a bluster of incredible passion. So the openness and the welcoming atmosphere of that meeting was superb from a guy who is, you know, globally regarded as one of the very finest in this field. And the work he's done already with Gaga Laboratorio is quite stunning, actually. It's different, it's almost. I think I would. I called it Nouveau Deco in Meeting or New Deco because it has elements of both Art Nouveau and Art Deco in the design and the volume of each shift between the models. So there's a very monochromatic version of a watch which was also issued in, I would say, a sage green colorway. And the black one is much more deco. The time indication is different as well. The font is different, it's less floral, it's. It's more angular, geometric and stark. That one is very deco. The green one has a bit more nouveau. But the case construction is incredible. It's actually a 14 piece case and that sounds like a lot, because it is. But the key additional components that are not normally detachable are the case flanks. Now, what this means is these slightly organic, I'd say, scalloped flanks at the edges, at least where they meet. The lugs clip in from the underside into the little recesses beneath each of the lugs and Then are affixed in place again from beneath by the by the screws that go through to the front and also then the case back that sits on top of them, making the whole thing look like it is actually a single piece. You can refinish these case flanks in any way you want. You could coat them, you could treat them with PVD in black or any color that you wanted. You could change the material. They could be titanium or they could be precious metal, for example, while still using the stainless steel or titanium upper. So the scope for comfortable modification within this range, I don't mean for customization after purchase, I mean for the brand to just diversify its core offering is vast. But the really satisfying thing is because these case flanks are separate from the lugs that they integrate with perfectly in a kind of stepped. Very Deco esque fashion, is that the transitions from the finishing are obviously flawless because there is actually a material break between the two components. So you could have them brushed and you have the lugs polished and when they meet, there's no bleed, there's no awkward transition. It is absolutely laser perfect. It looks so satisfying. It's unlike most things on the wrist. It's not the wildest case design, but its construction is very novel. I love that. And the dial is kind of an applied sector dial, shall we say. It's very bold, very striking. Huge amount of potential to again play with the materials and the colors that are laid out on that display. And I'm just really enthused by this brand's first entry into the market and also the team they have behind them because they have Fabio from Squale also running the show behind the scenes. So he's going to be a real advantage for them. Alain, what did you think?
- [18:18]
B
Thank you for raising that because we did have a lot of amazing philosophical discussions, actually. The four are indeed with Josh Shapiro And a shout out to our buddies Asher and Gabe from Collective Horology because they introduced us their ads for Josh. They're both in Cali, all three of them are in Cali. So we had an awesome evening with them as well. Shout out to them. We had amazing discussions with Ming and Pranath of Ming Watches. That was lovely, but a bit rushed. And with Mo Coppoleta, he was one that I've been admiring for long time. I mean, we've discussed tattoos quite a bit on the show and although I don't have one and probably will never have a tattoo placed, I really love the art side of tattooing. And in Holland we have hanky panky Hank Schiffmacher, and he is straight up there with Moco Poleta. So I was really, really happy to meet him. Besides that, he's a super cool cat, Lovely chap. And that's an underspend. He's a gentleman. He's actually a dandy. And it was such a lovely meeting because Fabio, you and I already know, because we know him from Squale, we hung out with him, also a great guy. And then Reuven from Gago, Gaga Laboratorio. He started almost two decades ago, and he always did extravagant designs. And it's very cool to see how this brand is being revived and it's actually a magic trio. But as you just said, it was so funny how Mo clicked on my poking statement, like, you guys communicate Art Deco and Bauhaus, but why? And then he jumped out of his seat, got his iPad pro, his physical drawings, and we did a deep dive into design and philosophy. So that was a masterclass. So I feel very fortunate.
- [20:21]
A
It just came back to me as well, to talking about the fusion of these different art styles, that you came up with a new word for this design language that Mo and Gaga Laboratorio have created. Gaga ism. You said it. They loved it, they took it on board. And in the future, perhaps we'll see this. It's much better than new Deco Gagarism because you've got the Bauhaus in there as well. It's a very specific style. When people see it, they'll understand it. Tell us about the thought process there.
- [20:48]
B
So very honest. I did not like the watch on the pictures. Fabio reached out to me as a retailer. He says, alon, I need you in the international network, so I need you in that meeting.
- [20:59]
A
Fine.
- [20:59]
B
We booked a meeting because I love to see new stuff. And I felt very honored and humbled that he even considered me. I noticed the funds. It intrigued me. The moment we sat down, pulled out my loop, I noticed that everything was new and. And the frequent listeners to the show know I have a font fetish. I love fonts. And that's maybe also the fifth conversation. So we actually had a lot of philosophical discussions this. This trip, Rob. So very cool. So Mo designed every. Everything was new, including font on the dial, the numbers, and what I loved on the rotating hour disc. So it isn't hardcore a jumping hour discs because it doesn't jump per hour, it slides. But what he did, besides, I love the actual font because it wasn't artico, it wasn't art nouveau, it isn't huge, it's literally Gaga ism. So while I was absorbing the watch and I was rather silent, and you guys know I'm a chatterbox, it's very rare that I'm silent for longer than 60 seconds. So I think Rob was thinking I'm having a stroke or something because I was so silent. But I was actually sitting there falling in love. But not this head over heels love at first sight. It grew on me because it was a eclectic collection of design styles. And a little feature was because it wasn't a jumping hour disc, Mo put in between the numbers. So imagine going from 11 to 12, 12 to 1, etc. He put that number in between in a smaller font size. And I found these little tweaks very, very smart. And I noticed he designed the new logo for Gaga. He drew the word Bauhaus in a font that wasn't really Bauhaus esque. It seemed like a tribute to Bauhaus. They did also something with Cinque Rente. You remember, Rob?
- [23:05]
A
No, I don't remember that. Tell me more.
- [23:07]
B
I believe that's the name of the model, but it was so overwhelming that meeting that I think I only absorbed 80%. But either the model is called Cinque rente, so it's 50, 55, something like that. And he designed that as well, Mo in a different font again. So I had an overload of fonts. And then I spurred out, I'm like, guys, this is not art nouveau. Art deco. It's not nouveau anything. This is literally your own style. This is Gaga ism. And they all three looked at us and they loved it. So that's where it came from. And that's my thought process.
- [23:44]
A
Have you noticed how you've referred to Mo, and not just Mo, but some of our other friends as Cool Cats? I think something stuck in your head from the first night, because the party that we attended when we arrived in Geneva was called Cool Cats Kickoff Party. And it was hosted by Our friends at 289 Consulting at the Beau Rivage Hotel in the party area downstairs, where a very cool cat, our good friend sexy boy Guillaume Laday, has his stable of brands, amongst other great up and coming independents. And starting with one of Guam's brands. What are my highlights? We all know about space 1. We all know about its origins as Argon, a brand that was taken to court over a naming issue. And then we all know, I'm sure, about the second model that Space1 released, the Tellurium, which is one of the most striking pieces of horology. You can buy for under €3,000. And I was glad to see there are some new iterations thereof on the way. And it's a good link from Mo Copuletzer and Gaga because they also have this orbital hours, shall we say? And they also have intermediary hours printed on the hour disc, which is quite unusual. It's slightly less artfully done than you'd expect with Gaga, but it is something of note. Now, what I like about the upcoming models of A Tellerium is that they are in some superb colorways. They're really using the case construction to their advantage to again, get these mixed materials next to one another and to create some new and exciting pieces for people that maybe missed out on the first one or wanted something a bit more luxurious. There's one in particular that's coming with a retailer that we all love, and I can't say where it is because it might give it away, but keep your eyes peeled. There's going to be, I think, 50 pieces of it and it might hit the market in 25, so keep your radars up. Alain, what do you think of Space One?
- [25:31]
B
We've discussed a lot of Space One on the show. I've personally ordered Chapter One, Chapter two, and they're now slowly opening up partnerships with retailers. So I was fortunate enough to announce during the fair on the spot, and that shows that Guillaume is a cool cat. We literally, within two seconds, hashed out the dealership for Ace. I'm not objective. I love the brand and it's. It is cool. There's nothing else to add. And Guillaume didn't stop at coolness at Space One because he does cool stuff at an affordable price. And you and I always daydream about the Hotel Luie and then the tip of the iceberg. But the money is made at the volume, and Guillaume hits the sweet spot for that because they evolved both the Chrono King and the Chronomaster for Nevada Grenin with removable bezels. You'll get five bezels on the watch that you can flip out, switch out yourself. I think super cool. He's on the pulse of what collectors need. He's a collector himself and he respects collectors by giving them what they want. So I salute Guillaume and the whole team behind Ivan Agin. So I think that's super cool. And he keeps on bringing the heat so much that we actually, I mean, both of you, both you and I have said to him that he needs to slow his role, that it's, it's. It's Too much. I mean, he's crushing. Well, his colleagues, but also consumers can't absorb all that coolness because. Because he's going that fast.
- [27:26]
A
That's a really interesting point, though. I mean, you made it to him in my presence and it really took me aback at how right you were. Like every single one of his brands. Not that I'm surprised when you're right just this time, how right you were. But every single one of his brands has been dropping like absolute bangers relentlessly. Like, look at Nevada. You had this new multi bezel version of the Chronomaster. That's what it's called, isn't it? I love it in Mega Quartz and in automatic, the mega quartz one, around 650, 700. That's an absolutely killer proposition. It's so much variety for so little money, comparatively. But that's on the back of the F77 with the lapis style and the meteorite one, which is my personal favorite. And there was an Aventurine one as well. And then there's your special edition, which is one of the coolest, sleekest versions of it they've ever done. You got Space One with the first model, then with the Tellurium, and then the things even from Volcano smashing it. Gorgeous stuff from Excelsior Park. It's like, where do we put our money? Procedures. I went over to the procedure stand. There was nobody on it because unfortunately, Oscar, that normally takes care of the brand, was. Was ill. I think he had a throat infection or something like that, so he couldn't be there. And whoever was looking after it had wandered off for a moment. So I just picked up one of their watches, which was like a, you know, the Serica field watch, you know, the one I mean, with the Cali dial, is really similar, but even smaller, had a manual movement in it. And I've done a bit of work for procedures. I did a lot of their website text for them, so I'm quite intimately acquainted with what they'd offered. But I've not seen this model before. And I put it on and I just walked off with it because I didn't know where the guy was. And I figured, well, I'm gonna return it. I've learned my lesson. So that was a real joy to see them also coming out with some real fire, you know, something that people didn't expect maybe isn't on many people's radars. If you've not heard of Procedus, then do go check them out. Extremely affordable watches. And there's a I wouldn't say the whole range is really great, but there's a couple of absolutely brilliant field watches for an extremely reasonable price in that stable. So before we leave that room downstairs, we obviously have to mention Bozel and Christo, our friend Christoph Hopper, who takes us swimming and was our basically home base throughout Geneva watch days. We used his stand to hide our bags and to lay down behind the sign when we're a bit tired. Wonderful guy. Great products. What do you think?
- [29:51]
B
I love Christo. I love Bozel, and I started working with him because of Genie Bo watch days. 2022. That's when I met him. Fell in love with the watches. So the Sydney diver is my favorite, especially the blacked out version. And this year he jumped on the tutti Frutti color bandwagon, which is the Sydney divers in the black cases with colored dials. So that's a lot of fun. I love the fact that he adds sand to the crowns. And the irony of it is it isn't hotelogerie. It's not the best watchmaking there is in the world. Solid Sellita 200 calibers. Well made, Swiss made. But I've sold actually loads of them to watchmakers. And not just watchmakers, master watchmakers. So that surprised me. And if I may, Rob, just a quick intermetal, two trends I've spotted, and I'm curious what you've spotted that now that we're talking is I think the color of this fair is purple. We saw loads of purple dials and I see a trend on the caliber side of things going to La Ju 1, 100 series calibers. You'll see more and more La Jo. Those are two things that popped into my hand while we're talking right now.
- [31:10]
A
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I mean, it's speaking to some predictions that I think we made in previous months. I think we. We already identified purple as like the next obvious color for the industry to do a run on. And I'm convinced that purple and red we will see a little bit more often. I really teased HYT about their latest purple offering because it had a black fluidic hour indicator. And I said it would have been better with red. And they're like, oh, we tried it, but it was a bit garish and we didn't like it. And I was like, no, you should have gone with it. And they're like, no, really, Rob, it was gross. And I'm like, no, you should have gone with it. The purple dial, I think Vahe was wearing that one right at the event. The purple dial was gorgeous. Really lovely shade. Black dulled it down a little bit. Whereas the other models in the collection, a wonderful rose gold case, tobacco smoke dial with a red indicator and also a forest green dial and a steel case or titanium case with a red indicator. They really popped. They were really HYT like. Let's not forget that one of the key tenets of that brand is to be visually arresting. And I think that the original luminous green fluid is rarely topped. The red stuff, though that can be a nice, slightly more toned down contrast to the right dial color. And yet purple is doing the rounds. I'm really glad to see it. I'm glad that the Horror File did his work with purple before it became an industry standard because he remains a trailblazer in that field. We had him on of course with the rest of the Colloquium team recently, so go back and check out that episode if you have not yet done it along with so that's ama, but check it out because you've got Manuel Emsch and also Barton on the show. So three incredible guys. To your other point, absolutely right about leguper calibers. I also have favored them in consultation meetings with brands looking to find a supplier. I've worked with Solitaire before in the past with several brands directly and indirectly, and I find the supply to be nowhere near as good as Le Paret. I think the aesthetics are better. I think the 68 hour standard power reserve is killer and that's the kind of thing that we want. It adds tangible value at, not an increase in price. That's why the Straum Jan Mines got that movement inside it and it's why so many other brands are choosing that for their watches.
- [33:20]
B
You gave me a lot to digest. Very quickly back to hyt. I don't think we've said it on air. Big congrats to our buddy VI for becoming the CEO of hyt and he's really growing into the brand and pushing the brand forward. And a little kudos to us because another trend we've predicted is the whole industry should move away from FOMO and not push so hard on limited editions because that's what we do on the Real Time show with our collabs. And our second one is dropping very, very soon. So stay tuned. And what we do is we make watches with brands that go into the regular collection that are not closed end limited edition collabs. And VI did that with HYT because those beautiful dials you just described are temporary dials in the sense that they're made for a limited time, but that gives you time to mull it over, think about it, see them in the middle, and then decide if you want it and you're not pushed into a corner and then gun onto your head and decide now. So I think that's a very cool thing.
- [34:28]
A
Yeah, I like that. I mean, you know, I love the brand. I'm hugely biased when it comes to Hyt. I always have been. I just think what they do is truly innovative and deserves plaudits. I hope that they survive this time around because how many times have I gone bankrupt now? Is it two or three?
- [34:44]
B
Twice. This is the third merry go round.
- [34:47]
A
Third merry go round. Okay, well, they're in good hands with Vahe, I think, and we need to get him on the show sooner rather than later to talk about, well, the Real Time show, special edition. Although I know what's coming. You know what's coming as well, and I like what's coming, so I think I'm going to wait a little bit and maybe work with that model. But everybody keep your eyes on the brand. It's going places and I'm glad to see that it's returned to strength after another period of hiatus. Okay, so let's move on to our next highlight. For me, I wrote an article about it on the way to the show on the train, on the six trains I ended up having to take because of several cancellations. And it surprises me that this is in my top 10 list, as it were. But it's the arm and Strom 39 millimeter resonance dual time, basically, because while resonance is an incredible phenomenon, I would describe it as. I'm not sure I'd even describe it as a complication, although that is how the brand describes it. It's similar to a tourbillon in the fact that it doesn't actually add a function to the watch. It is a timekeeping embellisher, shall we say. It's a isochronism chaser and it seems to work very nicely. Armin Strom's resonance method is different from a brand such as FP Jaune, which uses in theory the base plate or even the air between the balances to achieve sympathetic resonance when the two balance wheels in the watch be at the same rate to help each other compensate for shots or gravitational error. And Arm and Strom use a clutch spring, basically, that sits between the two, a resonance spring that is much quicker at harmonizing the oscillation of the balance wheels. Okay, this is all technology. Arm Strom has shown before, but they showed it before in a 54 millimeter oblong case and now it's in a 39 millimeter round case. It's delicate, it's grassile, it's thin, it's easily wearable, it's gorgeous. In real life. The pictures do not do it justice. The blue of the sub dials is stunning. The execution of the day night indicators on both dials is artisanal. I would say it's absolutely up there. It's a wonderful watch to wear. Super comfortable, A lot of horology in a small space. And what I wanted to see from brands this year, also the best giveaway of the entire fair. And that was a tiny little bracelet, a little cord bracelet with a enlarged Armin Strom bridge on it. And it's really cool. And I'm wearing three of them right now.
- [37:17]
B
I'm wearing mine. It is also my top 10. People know how much I love both resonance calibers and Armin Strom as a brand. I've already recorded part two with David, with Claude. So the co founder of the new Armin Strom. So they, they took over a surgeon. Claude take over the the brand from Mr. Sloan. So that's coming. So let's not burn too much time on that. So Gaga La Botola is maybe the hottest newcomer, although it's an older, older brand than old brand. Another kind of newcomer, which is a very old brand and I want to give a shout out to is Favre Loeb. I was impressed what They've accomplished in 10 months time under the helm of. They're very friendly. A very good CEO, Patrick Hoffman. So people know him as the old CEO of Ulysse Verdin. What was your take on the revived Favre l'ba?
- [38:25]
A
I mean, it's absolute success. You do not get a brand from basically nothing. And I'm talking from a product perspective. Nothing existent in 10 months without someone like Patrick Hoffman at the top. The decisions that needed to be made and to be honest, a lot of those decisions were even made in the last two months. You know, the colorways, the final tweaks to the design, how much to lead into the brand's incredible heritage. I mean it is the second oldest watchmaking brand in the world. Or at least in Europe. Somebody said that, thought I was interested or no. In Switzerland I thought it is the second oldest in the world, is it not? Is there someone that claims to be older? Maybe there is somewhere, I don't know. But the second oldest in Switzerland after only Blancpain and it went through several iterations, several phases, this brand and the most recent one prior to Hoffman coming in and effectively saving the day, saw the classic watches of Favreau Louvre expand to unwearable proportions. They were kind of cool, but I wouldn't put it on my wrist. I maybe would attach it to the outside of my backpack, you know, and use it as an altimeter, which was one of their most famous complications. But the modern lineup. Okay, let's break the stand. In the Diver collection in the deep blue, there's a modern version and a vintage version. I prefer the aesthetics of the vintage version, but the execution of both is top draw for this kind of price point. It's around 2k. Very impressed. A lot of people I spoke to actually favored above all else in the collection, the modern diver. I find it to be a little bit sterile, maybe the least exciting of the bunch. It reminded me a bit of the Rado Captain cup. And my favorite, hands down in the whole collection comes from the Seasky Chronograph range. And I like the Seasky Revival, which is very similar to a model that used to exist. The old model had black sub dials with a more gilt print on the dial. Now we've got sort of champagne sub dials and white print. It's a tallish watch for its diameter, but it has real vintage vibes. And the execution, again, I keep leaning into this. The execution at this price point is really sharp. It's extremely tight. It's less than €4,000. It's a real stunner. And I would go for that for my own collection. But the biggest surprise came in the Chief line. This is a kind of cushion shaped case. Very unusual, very 70s, I would say. Looks a bit like some of the older models on paper, but in person it wears like a dream. And there's some interesting colors as well. There's like a petrol colored dial, which is divine, to be quite honest. And there's. There could never be too many watches in that color for my money. It's very sensitively designed. The sub dials and the miniature against this petrol blue are kind of almost chocolatey black. And it was a real, real surprise to me on the wrist. So I think that product wise, they've done really, really well. The brand is good, okay. The brand has a story, it has a history. Hasn't always been the most glorious, but it has at times been incredibly well thought of. If they are able to leverage that and communicate the importance of the name and get people to pronounce it properly, which I Still can't do. I think we've said it about five different ways already. I believe it's supposed to be Favre Luba, but I keep wanting to say favor. So if I do slip into my old habits, please forgive me, but I think it's Favreau Luba is how you're supposed to say it. Anyway, I think they've got a chance. I think they are headed up by one of the only guys that could really make this runaway success. And I think that models within the collection each identify killing points within the industry that they're going to go after. So if I was the Rs65 and I was looking at that deep blue revival, I'd be a little bit concerned. What do you think?
- [42:15]
B
I think they found the great mix of what brands that have a long heritage should do a bit of retro inspired heritage pieces, then do the evolution of that particular collection of brand and then do something totally new. And that's exactly what Patrick and team did. I on paper, wasn't that much impressed with the chief collection, but when you put it on the wrist, I was really actually impressed. It's something new, you see, they really made an effort. So whenever you form an opinion, don't do so until you've tried on the watches. So those are my quick 2 cents. We will have Patrick on the show. So I want to keep the speed up because we have a lot of ground to cover. So going from Favela, I wanted to give a quick shout out to the most innovative marketing stunt during the fair. And you're laughing.
- [43:28]
A
So yeah, I know what's coming because.
- [43:30]
B
What am I referring at?
- [43:32]
A
You're referring to the collaboration between H Mosen C and Studio Underdog, which was also going to be my transition. I'm very impressed by the dynamism of certain CEOs and the way they look at the industry differently. I have said, famously, actually recorded an interview the day before the Moon's watch was released saying, I believe in the future of watchmaking we will see more cross brand collaboration. Unfortunately, that interview, which was with Fortis, wasn't published until after the Moon Swatch dropped. And when it came out it obviously looked like I'd just been inspired by that. But it was literally the day before the Moon Swatch came out and it's borne out to be true because obviously we saw the three way collab for the Tantalum bracelet, including Ming, Shapiro and Fleming. And now we see this. This is very, very different. This is not a shared component. This is two watches sharing the Same colorway we saw before the release. Some very cryptic videos drop on Instagram in which Richard Benz of Studio Underdog, a friend of the show, obviously one of a good friend of the Real Time show and a longtime contact of mine, given that I was the first person to write about Studio Underdog watches and the first to collaborate on a charity edition that we did with him and Fratello, and hopefully now the 50,000th person to collaborate on a Studio Underdog watch for the Real Time show because he makes some incredible collaborations with great media titles. He's done it with Scottish watches, he's done it with Time and Tide, and now he's collaborating again with Moza on one of the weirdest things. We saw Richard making an eaten mess passion fruit flavor, and then we saw Ed Mayan making a passion through cocktail at the same time. Now, I didn't have any wind of this coming at all, so I saw these two reels independently on my Instagram and I thought, oh, Geneva Watch Days must be doing some kind of themed content thing like Only Watch. You know how Only Watch has the color theme every year. Oh, maybe Geneva Watch Days is Passion fruit theme this year. I felt so thick afterwards when I realized they were working together and I hadn't drawn the line, but I just didn't see it coming. We've seen big brands work with smaller brands, as in Omega and Swatch. And by big and small, I mean high end and entry level. But they're the same group and they're both equally as well known. Here we have an incredible collaboration the likes of which we've never seen before. We have a Moser that would normally retail for about 54, 55,000 francs. And we have a Studio Underdog, which is. It's a type of Studio Underdog that's never been released. It's got a Swiss caliber in it for the first time, which I also believe is Legis Parade Alon. Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe.
- [46:27]
B
It was Sellita, but I'm not sure.
- [46:29]
A
Okay, okay, so it's one of the two. So much in the muchness, really, but it's the first time that Rich has ever used a Swiss caliber in his chronographs. He obviously did it recently with his second model, the Field watch that caused quite a stir at the British Watchmakers Day back in March. But this is the first time he's upgraded the componentry of his Chronos. Now, the design language suits both pieces equally. I would say. Obviously, we're probably more comfortable with a Studio Underdog being inspired by a fruit than we are a 50k plus moza. But what really amazed me was the sales strategy. You can't buy these watches separately. They come as a box set. Two watches in a box. A nice box by the way, for about 60 grand. And there's a hundred pieces, a hundred sets available. We'll talk about that in more detail. But alon you give me your takeaways first about the car lab and then maybe you move on and transition us into this sales strategy and what you think about that.
- [47:25]
B
I found it cool. I love everything that's new. So it's new. I was flabbergasted. You need to wrap your head around it. I like the colorway it, it it. No other two brands could have done it together because what you get is those beautiful gradient enameled, rough enameled Moser dials that only Moser basically does. Especially the gradient is in the funky colors. So that's and, and it's cool that Richard ranway because apparently Richard was so kind to explain the backstory. So he reached out actually to Ed Milan of H Moser C. They had a meeting, they clicked and it shows ingenuity from the Moser team that they even take these meetings, that they're open to suggestions and that they jam on ideas. That's what I love and that shows strength and being a good marketeer in on the one hand I think it's very strong that it's just a package deal, a one time thing. I'm happy they didn't cross cross reference brand names on the dials. So it's, it's an intellectual exercise. But the marketeer me immediately said why not give access to Moser vibes by releasing the Studio Underdog in an unlimited version or an annual edition. And so I, I didn't understand why Mo would do it. I understand why Studio Underdog does it because it elevates their aura, their brand reputation. It makes it more of an watch brand. And obviously I've been admiring Studio Underdog from day one. But the danger that I see is it's now a food brand. Everything he does is linked to food. And I hope that with the Field Watch you would break away from that. I believe the, my favorite dial is like the gradient. I believe it's called lemonade if I'm not mistaken.
- [49:52]
A
Yeah, pink, I think.
- [49:54]
B
Yeah. So I, I see a pitfall there. I think he should watch out for that. And he obviously wants to get out of the gimmicky corner because the field watch has A Swiss movement. The new chronographs obviously are going to have Swiss movements. So if it's a transitional phase, by doing this, good for him. Initially, I asked the Moser team, is it meant for Father Sunset or when you're traveling and you're scared somebody will rip you from your Moser, are you then going to wear the Studio Underdog watch or what was the reasoning there? So some said this, you'll give it as a gift. So but in any ways, the danger of it is to overthink everything. And this is not about thinking. This is pure passion. You either love it or you hate it. It's only 400 collectors and I salute them that they did this because it was very creative.
- [51:02]
A
Yeah, indeed, it was very creative. But let's just pick up on a few points that you mentioned there. Firstly, I can't believe you've. You've just rubbished an ordain in this. In this conversation, saying Moza are the only ones that could do the thing that Anordain did before MOA and famously found themselves in a situation as to whether they should kick off. When MOA claimed to have done the first fume enamel dial with the. I think it was an endeavor. It wasn't true, of course. An ordain had done it first and quite obviously so with the Model 2 especially. So an ordain could have done it, but that would have been two brands standing right side by side in terms of price point. And that's to. Why did Moza do this? Because yes, it is probably more beneficial for Studio Underdogs reputation. I mean, the synergy of the brands here comes from their character rather than their products or price point. They're both humorous. Ed Malan's got a great sense of humor. He's always sending himself up in the videos that they do to push the pieces. I think it fits. Weirdly. It fits. And why else would they do it? Because. Because we're all talking about it because it's a fantastically fun thing and it's a bit bonkers and we're not sure if it's a good idea. And by that token, it is, because we are still analyzing it. We'll be analyzing it for years to come. It's the closest thing we've come to since the Swatch and the Omega collaboration. So, yeah, I think I see why they did it. Absolutely. And it could also be father and son, father and daughter, mother and daughter, mother and son. Anyone else. And anyone else could be best friends. If you're loaded and Your best friend isn't. You could buy that set and give him or her the other one. That would be really cool. I like the idea of it being a generational thing. I like what you said about traveling alon and traveling with the studio Underdog. I like the flex of wearing the Studio Underdog and having the Moser in the safe. You know, everybody will see that and assume if you've got one, you've probably got the other. So, yes, very cool, very interesting. I do question the commercial sense of not having them available separately, though. I think it would have been cool to have 100 sets with something special about them, and then maybe the studio Underdog had a second version that was available on the open market. Or maybe just not. Maybe just say, okay, there's going to be a hundred Moses and a thousand studio underdogs. Limit them both. For example, everybody that has bought into Rich's brand already, I think, would be keen to have this model associated with Moza in their collection, limited to a level that is fair but not particularly restrictive. I don't know. We'll never know, obviously, because we can't do a placebo. That's true of all releases. Once you're done, you're done. You can't go back and do it again. You can't do it twice in two different ways at the same time. It's a point of discussion. They've obviously sat down. They said, okay, these are the strategic benefits to do it this way. These are the strategic benefits to do it that way. And they've made a decision and fair play to him for making it. Could probably have made a little bit more cash out of it, though, if they'd taken a different route. Anyway, moving on from one masterful marketeering movement to another master of watchmaking, Bernard Lederer. Yes.
- [54:18]
B
So you and I met Herr Lederer and Frau Lederer, because Eva Lederer is an amazing woman and Bernard is a wonderful man, but has his quirks. And I think that with him, what you see is what you get. If you don't like it, you're going to know it. And the first time we met him briefly, and then Eva explained the brand and the amazing caliber to us. We were fortunate enough to roll in to their suite in the Beau Rivage. He was laid back, Bernhard. We had sofas. He sat us down like two little school kids. And we got schooled in a positive way. What a ride was that. He was relaxed and he had his talking hat on and we went deep. What did you think of their new piece, the Observatory piece?
- [55:19]
A
Yeah. I was really impressed. This is, as you said, this is the first time really, we've had a long time to talk to Bernard. I've heard a lot more about him than I've experienced firsthand. I've always had a good rapport with Eva, as have you, and it's always been very nice to hear about the new pieces. But he's known basically to, well, regard himself as the boss, the big man, the number one. And that comes across in the brand's communication, always came across through Eva to me, that basically they saw it as there was no peer, that Leder was at the very top of the watchmaking tree. And I wondered if that self confidence, shall we say, would come across in a positive or a negative way. When we had the chance to talk and he didn't reference his own greatness that often, it was clear when I think you alon very, very smartly and one of the most impressive journalistic moments of your journalism career. You asked him who else he respected in the industry, and I think the answer came via omission in many ways. And he looked to the past and he put the very greats like Jamvier, I think he mentioned, or Harrison, someone whose work in the discovery of longitude or how to track it at least using time, has very much informed his own work, especially with this new model. So that was a fascinating insight to the mind of a man who is regarded by all as a modern great, but also regards himself as perhaps the greatest Alon.
- [57:02]
B
This is sound bite worthy. So he indeed said Jan Fear Harrison Huygens, to give me a bit respect, he's like, he's Dutch.
- [57:10]
A
I'm like, I know, yeah, that was interesting. He's, he's, he's very empathetic as a guy. Like, he's good at reading a room and he was calm under pressure because you challenged him on quite a few things and he even over talked to you, which was impressive.
- [57:24]
B
Yeah, well, you gave me compliments. I had good journalistic questions. They did. But, you know, also a trend that I saw, we really hit a turning point, a tipping point. People now perceive me more as a journalist than retail. It's both brands and colleague journalists. So that was interesting to see. But I'm actually liking this new hat that I've been wearing now for almost two years with the Real Time show. So. But going back to Bernard, so what did he say? You need these names. And then he said, and this is the sound bite. And maybe Breguet Emphasis on the maybe.
- [58:06]
A
Yeah. Absolutely stunning, the company that he keeps in his mind. But quite justifiably in many ways, to be fair, the work that he does is exceptional. This new watch, what I love about it is it fuses his. I love his aesthetic sensibilities in the movement, I'm not going to lie. But I've never loved the dials. I don't like open work dials in any case. And there's a good reason to have windows in the dial when you're talking about a lederer. But what we have here instead is an incredibly beautiful silvered dial with extremely finely applied markers and a minute hand that looks at first glance to be relatively standard with an arrow tip. But within that arrow is a tiny little needle. It must be, yeah, micron stick. And it indicates very precisely markings around the edge of the dial that show the transition of time. And I loved that element. I thought it was ambitious to make a hand like that. I know it's a hand and it's a crazy thing because it's a relatively. It's an active element in that it communicates the time to you, but itself is like mechanically benign. It just sits on a post. It could be any shape you want, it could be a stick, you know, as long as it wasn't too heavy for the movement to drive. It could be as big as you wanted it, really. And many brands do have poor lethal type hands. This, though, was elegant, it was thoughtful. It goes to the idea that he looks at everything, doesn't just sit on his hands and think, okay, this is the way it is. It can't be anywhere different. Quite the opposite. Strange to be commenting on the hand when you flip the watch over and you've got one of the most stunning movements of all time encased within it. But I was impressed. I thought that this watch was, as I often say, like the maturation of a concept. I think it hangs together really, really well.
- [60:05]
B
And four marks indeed. First time, that's a closed dial. But they went further. So from a distance you would say, ooh, it's a bit of a pancake, right? It's rather big diameter, rather slim. It always reminds me of the IWC Spiegel eye or the Portofinos with the pocket calibers that IWC uses. But the hand was mind boggling, actually. But all the thinking that went into the watch. So it's. It's called Observatory because it's been tested by three observatories and then you. They ran into legal issues that they weren't allowed to mention the names of the observatories on the dial because what was it? It was Neuchatel, Glassutter and Bessels. Bessels. So they came up with a brilliant idea. Just put the GPS coordinates because it's all about the meridian where you are in the world. And the double line running through the center of the dial into the strap is the stripe that runs literally to through Greenwich. So where the Observatory Greenwich is. So there's a lot of thinking there, but it's very subtle. And what I love is about the Germanic watchmaking. So from Schaffhausen all the way to Glassutter, the less is more design language. So really impressive. Definitely coming on the show. I didn't even tell you this, Rob, but my bonus night, I actually hung out quite some time with Eva, had lovely chats also about children. And she told me how she raised their girls. And that's very interesting to hear because it radiates in how they are raising their company because technically the brand Leather only exists two years. Right?
- [61:57]
A
That amazed me. That absolutely amazed me. Burnout's reputation has deep roots in the industry, obviously, but we've met them every year of their existence. And I thought I was late to the party to be honest, because like, well, this guy's a legend. He's a modern day, you know, master. Everybody knows him, everybody knows his work. But yeah, what a. What a position to be occupying after just three years of existence.
- [62:23]
B
And during that evening later on, I hung out with Josh, introduced me to Fred Savage. That's a whole different story, that, a funny anecdote. And then they introduced me to James from Fleming, who's known more as wait listed on Instagram. He's the COO of the brand. And I don't know how we got chatting about the most legendary guys in watchmaking and the master watchmakers and Leather came up. So I said to him, do you know? He's like, no. So I introduced him to Baronet and Eva James. And that was actually a very interesting encounter because both of them never held each other's watches and I literally live had that experience. So that was very cool. And with Bernard's reputation and his own self view, he was rather respectful. That was interesting to see.
- [63:18]
A
That's good to hear. I'm glad that he takes the attitude when analyzing other people's work as well. But you know, it's like an athlete, right? Like a top athlete. If you don't believe you're the best and you're not, you're not going to Win you certainly not going to reach your potential. And I think that, yeah, I mean, arrogance, self confidence, that they're often misconstrued. Right. You know, it can be, it can come across in that way.
- [63:40]
B
Right. We are the best podcast about watches, right?
- [63:43]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you don't believe you are, then you should be doing something to change so that you do believe you are. And if you do believe you are, you just like any great athlete, you've just got to keep pushing to stay ahead of the package. And obviously it's all subjective when it comes down to these things. It's impossible to sort of say one podcast or one watchmaker is better than the other. It depends on what you like. But you should have that belief and I think it's healthy to have that belief. But it has to be tempered with an incredible respect for people doing things differently and in other ways. And look, however good you are, you can always be better and you can always learn from the other things out there. And there's been a lot of variety this year, which is good. And on that note, we don't have a huge amount of time left, but I still want to mention seven brands, so I'm gonna knock a couple off quickly just to. Just to mention them to make sure that I get their names out there, because I don't want to forget about them and talking to seven brands. I'll start with seven. Friday, I met with Dan Nidara for lunch and to have a look at the new. The new watches. And we saw the prototypes back in April back in Watches and Wonders. But I have to say the final collection is great. It's just a really lovely evolution of the original concept, the ME series. It's called the Maya Principle by Raymond Levy and it's very, very nice, very elegant, much more organic than the original models, which I still love. The big TV shape cases, it sticks with that silhouette, but it smooths off the edges and it gives us a different display. Looks like an alien spaceship's crash landed to Earth. So full marks there. Talking of alien spaceships, I've got to mention MB&F had a wonderful meeting again with Arnault. And also Harris popped in also. He's been on the show previously. Max is coming on the show now. We've had that confirmed after a little partnership that we did helping to launch their Tales from the Tribe podcast. If you haven't checked that out already, the first two episodes are available on our feed, so just scroll down on your preferred podcast player. But if you want to listen to the rest of them, pop over to MBNF channel, give it a follow and check out what Max's customers have to say about their watch collecting journey. Now onto my top five watches of the fair. In no particular order, I'm starting with a surprise. I don't know if you saw this brand along, we definitely need to see it together. But I have Claude Malan right up there as one of the most impressive things I saw this year. This is quite a surprising choice maybe for people that know the brand and know my general preferences aesthetically when it comes to watches. And I'm talking specifically about a ladies watch which has a skeletonized movement, an open dial which is not to my liking at all normally, but it has this bracelet which is very much a bracelet, a jewelry style bracelet. It comprises loops which are hinged together so it affixes via a very clever clasp with which clicks in and it hooks in and then closes over the top. So it's extremely secure on the wrist. What I loved about this watch was that it was what we always ask brands to do when it comes to women's watches. Not to shrink a man's watch, make it in precious metal, put a mother of pearl dial on it, cover it in diamonds, stick a quartz movement in it, blah blah, blah. This was designed from the ground up for women and I think it's very nicely done. As a concept, the execution is okay for what it is. It could be even better if they elevated the materials used in its construction. The price is relatively high. It's like six, which is quite a lot, six or seven. But I think that as a concept it's very laudable. They deserve a pat on the back for taking this strategy towards female watch design. And I hope to see more like that from them and from other brands. And now I am going to jump on onto a brand I know you want to talk about as well. I don't know how much we can say about the model because I believe at this point it's still embargoed. But there is something coming from fears that everybody needs to keep an eye on how long.
- [67:44]
B
Strangely enough, I've only bought one watch for my private collection during this fair. Although I've been falling in love not every day, but maybe every hour. So the only watch I've bought is the embargoed fierce watch. So stay tuned. We already love Nicholas. We love his sales director Dan. We met Lee last year for the first time. What a genius and modest guy is that. We've had actually quite some beers whiskeys and cigars with the Fierce team, both at their party organized with Watchmakers United and our buddy Martin from Sherpa Watches, but also at the Grand Duke, our favorite spot in Geneva during the after hours. And we are having Lee on the show and we'll air the episode when the embargo is being lifted. So make sure to mark that in your calendars. So let's not waste too much time on that to quickly add some info to your story. I did not join the seven Friday meeting, unfortunately because we had so much to do, we had to split up once in a while. Noteworthy for you hardcore collectors, the Mad One is worthwhile subscribing to the lottery. It's way slimmer and guess what caliber that watch has. So it's upgraded and I recommend you registering if you either were on the fence for one, it really became more comfortable on the wrist or if you already have one, it's considering to add one or upgrade it and trade it in. So that's food for thought. Something that I wanted to mention, Rob, you and I, I believe went separately to Micro Mil Spec, something that really did not resonate with me on paper and I kinda unwillingly was really impressed with what they're doing and their watches. Did you end up going seeing them separately?
- [70:03]
A
I did, I did. It was my last meeting of the week and they were one of the three brands remaining on my list to mention. And we have to give a shout out to my old colleague Dave Sargent from Fratello for the work that he's done on the Milgraph with Micromill Spec. Years ago when we were both working for Fratello, we just coincidentally started working with two Norwegian brands at the same time, Straumann, Micro, Milspec, and we both had an equal amount to do with them in the early days. But then it became apparent it would be a bit more of a clear route forward if we basically took one each and worked on it more intensely separately. So I took Straum as you know, like my relationship with Straum has burgeoned ever since. And Dave took Micro Milspec and he worked on the dial layout for that Milgraph for years tirelessly. He would just be drawing new iterations of it, very nicely done drawings actually, and he would send them to me for my feedback and there was very little I could add to it because I thought he did such a smashing job. And now to see it realized in that way and to hear about the closeness of Dave with the team over the last couple of years since I Left Fratello is really heartening and I wish him and the brand all the best and they're very keen to work with us as well. And so as a nice continuation of the story, because Dave was a friend of mine before we started working together at Fratello, we founded Red Bar Manchester together along with five other maniacal watch enthusiasts. And we worked very closely in the same department for a couple of years. And now he is doing the job I was doing before I left. And I think that makes sense to work on something with the Milgraph because then we can say, hey, you know, it came full circle. This is a watch that Dave very much helped develop and it's got his fingerprints all over it. And I'm really proud of him and I'm really happy for the brand because the execution is absolutely ridiculous. For the price point, it's under 4k. I had it around 7 in my hands when I was holding it. I thought that's probably fair price for it. It's a bargain. It's incredible. And talking of incredible, one other brand I can't really talk say too much about the model because it is also embargoed. But maybe my favorite surprise, because I'd not expected this is from our good old geezer, Phil Toledano and his buddy Alfred Chan. Toledano and Chan are releasing a follow up to their incredible inaugural model. It'll probably be out next year and it's got all the character in the world. I told him I want one. I don't know what the sales strategy is going to be. I don't think it's going to be limited, but we'll, we'll watch this space and find out. But that just blew me away. It was once again, for the second time in one episode, the total maturation of a perfect concept. All right, I've got one more to go, but I'm going to hold on to that until the very end. My top watch of the fair. Because Toledado and Chan weren't actually showing at the fair, they were being pirates, as DeFore likes to say. And I love that for them because it fits the brand perfectly. It certainly fits Phil's character. He's a wild child, the geezer of the industry. But Alon, give us your rundown of your top pieces and then I'll finish off with my top one.
- [73:06]
B
Well, really, really. Also, it's not an even exhibit. It's maybe a little intermetal. But I was so happy to see Sidewink again physically after I've seen Them first time ever in Basel World. That is something that really needs more attention. So I was, I was blown away both by the watch and the co founder Albert. So more to come but that's a little intermittent. I wasn't on paper too much surprised by Fredicle Starr with a Malachi dial for their manufacture date or the Aventurine tourion, but I don't know, it fancies my tickle. And I did an Instagram reel with a lot of CEOs actually presenting their novelties and that one did very well. So good job. And Alpina also dropped some gems and the picture by the way of you wearing a car, rectangular, Fred style, fully diamond studded, did very well on my socials. So Rob, I think you've hit a trend after the Serpenti rocking smaller sized diamond studded watches is really something you should go for. So a little intermezzo there. We met with Jorn Verdelin. I am very curious. You don't have a lot of love for tourbillons. How did you experience the Daniel Roth that we've had quite some time to play with?
- [74:48]
A
I'm not sure who I am anymore. I really do love the small diamonds of the watches. You're right. Every time I wear a ladies watch to an event, the Internet seems to go crazy for it and the people around me seem to really love it as well. And I love the response and I think it's interesting. So I will try and make that my shtick in the future. I also, as you know, hate tourbillons in general because I think people just lean on them too often. But I'm starting to get a bit of a tourbillon vibe and Daniel Roth does it better than most. The dial layout is superb. I thought the model that we played with most extensively is too small. I think the concept needs to be a little bit bigger and I'm not somebody that would normally say that because I like a small watch, but when it comes to a non round watch, I think the sizing is perhaps even more important in some ways to how it sits on your wrist. So I thought it was brilliantly executed and I'm really glad that that brand is coming back to prominence because it is just necessary. We need it in the world.
- [75:48]
B
And if you need a wingman, there is one watch that was my favorite for ladies during this fair which was the Gentissima or San by Gerald Genta, which obviously is a Daniel Roth sister brand under the helm of Jean Arnault at Louis Vuitton Slash Le Fabric du Temps. And on paper you'll say, ah, nice. Typical female watch. A bit of diamonds. Motherf. We're there. But the. What. What's the English word for that sea animal? Sea urchin. With. With the.
- [76:28]
A
Yeah, I think. I think that's the one. Yes. So.
- [76:31]
B
So it reminds me of a sea urchin. But the studs with the diamond, so you have spikes, which is a bit punk rock ish. You have one that's like a oval pebble cookie ish with diamonds. It was set so beautifully, but if they would blow that up in size, I would wear it. But you know what? A smaller one as well. So that was the highlight for the ladies. For me during the fair. I finally, finally, finally took some time. I carved out some time to go to a single reimagine because again, I missed the appointment you had booked for us. Fantastic guy, Marco. The watches are mind boggling. I'm in love. Popped into our buddy Benoit results. On paper, not so innovative because he took his Type 3, I believe and gave it a black DLC treatment on the titanium. And it's the first time they added a splashes of matte color for the thermometer and the power reserve. But I'm a big sucker for results. Another brand that I'm a big sucker. Three lobe. Nothing spectacular. They did a yin yang set. So black and a panda version. But always lovely to see. Volcano something. You did not have time to join me because I did that actually on my bonus day is ID Genev actually did end up running to their HQ at Konova train station in Geneva. So that was a bit out of the regular routes that we were running around. I on paper loved their idea. I wanted to buy a watch to support them, but they didn't really speak to me. But now they've created this new case bracelet and they did funky dials, but psychedelic dials with holograms. Rob, I'm in love. So I actually talked to Marie Ansel of 289 about it, who was their PR agent. And I didn't have time to talk to you about that. But after Cedric Bellon, whom you know, I admire and is a friend and love what he does with the recycled stuff because we're doing chapter two with him at Ace. First fully recycled steel watch. We did a collab now fully recycled titanium, which I've been begging him for four years. But ID Genev is really, really pushing the envelope. They've secured 2 million investment money, of which part of it is Leonardo DiCaprio. So it was very cool to See them in their house, their hq. Now I'm hijacking a bit. I maybe want to end up with a total underdog. Which blew me away. Was the newest family and therefore model from Fortis.
- [79:33]
A
Ding ding, ding, ding, ding. That's my number one piece of the fair. Go ahead. Really?
- [79:38]
B
Yeah. That was it. It it. I've hung out already with Diop because of Red Bar Crew Amsterdam. We hung out at the Grand Duke with the whole Fortis team. But during our meeting I gravitated, you know, I was so mesmerized I forgot the name. So you need to help me out here. Well, it's basically a modern new interpretation of a cushion ish shaped watch. If for our listeners, I need to make a reference, but really doesn't look like a Heuer Monza, but it's that vibe but a bit elongated. And this is another watch, you need to put it on the wrist to make a decision. So don't form your opinion based on pictures, online or magazines or wherever you see it. Titanium watch. It comes standard on a titanium bracelet, GMT Kaneesi GMT caliber inside. And what I loved about it, they also like to provoke and poke. So they said, what is the most important for you to be? So I obviously shouted home. So they smiled because they tricked me. So their idea was home is where you want to be on a GMT watch. When you travel, you set your home time usually on the 24 hour hand. They made that in a beautiful white gold sub dial. And it was such a beautiful contrast with titanium. You know how much I love titanium special when it's not polished. So a matte finish. So it's a underdog, it's a subtle watch. It's marrying the tool watch with a dress watch. That was their analogy. They said, hey, we lack in our collection of watch that you can wear when you're traveling. If you travel for business, you're probably suited up or a bit dressed up, but in the evening maybe you want to go casual. If you're lucky, you can go swim in the sea or in the pool. So it's a waterproof watch. So I kinda really, really liked it. And I think it's a smart move because it misses such a family in the Fortis brand. And my tip to them was add a leather strap to each watch because it looks also stunning on a leather strap. And the beauty of it is Swiss. Never like anybody giving them constructive criticism, let alone regular criticism. But these guys are quick on their feet, used light bulbs popping up and didn't Just say, oh, okay. Thank you for the feedback. They immediately start running with it. They grab the box with straps. We held straps on the watch. So those are definitely cool cats.
- [82:26]
A
Yep. That in my opinion, the coolest people in the industry. You know, I love them. I work with them sometimes. The Vagabond is the name of this watch. The Vagabond is coming soon to a website and retail store near you and it is absolutely wonderful. The execution is superb. I've had the 3D printed prototypes on my wrist in the past during the developmental phase. I couldn't wait to see it in the metal. All finished and it hangs together perfectly. There's three dial options. There's a very dark blue, there's a silver matte dial and a black. And my preference is the silver matte. It's incredible against the flash of burlight flu or orange on the tip of the GMT hand. It's just subtle and striking enough with the gray leather strap, which is Yup's preference for your advice. It also looks amazing and I can't speak highly enough of it. It's the fifth family in the Fortis line, along with the Stratoliner, the Nova Naught, the Marine Master and the Flieger. And it completes the collection. Now we won't see another line from for us anytime soon. This is what they're going to work with. This is the final step in the rounding of the concept y had when he took on the brand. Oh, when was it? 2017, 2018. So not so long ago. Within less than a decade, they've turned it around from a almost neglected afterthought to become one of the most dynamic, exciting and certainly friendliest brands in the watch industry. So we're going to end the episode there on a very positive note. Chapeau Fortis, you. You won the war, as it were, and it's wonderful to spend so much time with that team and all the other teams that you've mentioned today on the show. If you have any questions for them, please get in touch. You can do so via the usual channels, either our Instagram handle at the Real Time show or by directly emailing us at Rob Alon or David at therealtime show or of course on the contact form via the website. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.