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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to Geneva Watch days 2025 in the Glass Igloo outside the pavilion by the beautiful Lachlan Man. We are joined today by a man who has been on quite the journey through the watchmaking industry. Davida Charato of Bremont. Welcome very much to this sweltering studio.
- [00:26]
B
Thank you very much for receiving me and burning me into this. Sorry. Into this oven.
- [00:32]
C
We're testing if you're really Mediterranean Italian. Are you? See you Davide. Yeah.
- [00:38]
A
You look more comfortable than most people to be fair. You look like you're holding yourself together very well. We were talking off air about the fact that of course, as many followers of the show will know, I used to work for Bremont as a chronograph specialist back in the day and now we are here together for the first time. David and I have met and alon you were visiting new facility.
- [00:57]
C
Right.
- [00:57]
A
You've been over to the wing, you've seen what it's like now these days.
- [01:00]
C
So obviously you know the old facilities.
- [01:04]
A
Yeah, I never been to the wing.
- [01:06]
C
I've took the warm invitation by both David and team and I maxed out my invitation because I took the next generation Ben Joseph whip. It took rough absolute F and Noah and my brother in law so we did the full British watchmaking experience. It was amazing. Besides the warm welcome, what an amazing building. The ride up from London to Henry Thames is amazing. They have the facility there is meticulous. I'll call it Swiss meticulous. Yeah. Watchmakers levels that you walk in to a boutique which isn't a boutique. Beautiful bike, motorbike car, obviously some wings outside and inside English phone booth and you'll have the. The full experience and the bridgeness and. And what I wanted to see is I brought obviously I know the English produce well belt long time. We retail at Ace jewelers exclusively the Netherlands bermond already falls 13 going on 14 years.
- [02:25]
B
Wow.
- [02:27]
C
Time flies. I'm big fan. How can I not win an orange barrel when I watch? So they gave us some love from the helium Thames. All kidding aside, I wanted to see what the pure reaction is. My brother in law is tumbling down the rabbit collecting hole rather recently so I wanted to see his feedback. And with kids do they get that wow factor of when you put inject a kid into a room? They observe vibes. I want to see what does it do to them.
- [03:01]
A
Yeah, I mean that's something that Bremont has always been exceptional at. Is building a universe, creating an environment, something that people can step into and really feel part of it through those stories and those art artifacts of Britishness and engineering and aviation that you see in the wing as you're describing. And it was similar in the old facility in handling on Thames where I worked. David, for you taking on that responsibility as a custodian of that environment, was there a great deal of pressure that came with it or were you just ready for the challenge?
- [03:28]
B
I was born ready. It was super exciting and I firmly, strongly believe that things that happened by chance, you know, I, I've been in watches for 23 years of this 23, 17. I've been in brands that compete exactly in the same market segment. Tudor, Montblanc and you know, I know, I know inside out the segments, the customers, the tailors, the design codes, the incredible challenge of value for money. You know, how can you. It's not because those watches are a little bit less expensive than the upper segment that customers are expecting less, they are expecting the same or even more. And you know, the rule of the game is over, systematically over delivering, which is exactly what we do at Bremo. So super excited. It was a fantastic feat. The people there, the investor, Bill Appan, an incredible, inspiring businessman and mentor and yeah, he said was like finding the right key to open a door. It was really natural and organic and extremely exciting and just a match of this trajectory in the history of a company that already achieved a lot with someone that has the experience to bring it to the next level. And you know, I am also a British fan since ever. Everyone knows that they've started to morph into a REIT long before getting into Bremont. I've owned a Morgan +2 for 15 years, by the way. Now Morgan has been bought by Italians and is a good example of something similar that we are doing. You know, they just did a crazy limited edition of a Converse to Pole model. We've been in farina and is really this magic match of Italian, you know, magic touch for, for design and style and, and, and the British beauty of heritage and craftsmanship and engineering. So yeah, it was. I, I think this is definitely the pivotal experience of my career. You know, how in, in a way I build up and everything converge for me to, to get there.
- [05:55]
A
It's always ironic, isn't it, how much comes down to timing in watchmaking. These synergies are a thing, almost a fate. Firstly, your hair is far too good for a British person. So you're going to have to, you know, I'm living proof of that. I can't do anything with it. And it's vast. It's rapidly exiting my head as well, unfortunately. Secondly, you point out something very, very interesting there. You said, at that price point, customers don't expect less, they may even expect more. And I think that's a very, very good point because Bremel is positioned in a place where, okay, not everybody, but many people can aspire to own a Bremel. It's affordable in that sense, it's accessible and it's a luxury product, of course. But if you're buying 100,000 pound watch every week, you kind of, you accept sometimes a little bit more like potential for failure or inaccuracy because you're buying something else. You're buying like a work of art. People that buy a Bremont, they really might only have that one watch in their collection, therefore it has to tick all those boxes. When you came on board, your first move was to radically overhaul the brand new logo, new color scheme, new slogans, and obviously a very striking new collection. And now in the most recent step you've taken, you've revamped perhaps the most iconic model, the old mb, now the Meteor and Meteor NBC collection. And I would say that you have done exactly what was necessary with that line, specifically by adding value to a product that was already exceptional. Talk us through the first step that you went through, your feelings and thoughts about the rebrand and then why you took the second move, as you did.
- [07:37]
B
Absolutely. So when, when I arrived, I found a fantastic heritage, a fantastic story, an authentic story, a lot of passion, really committed people, crazy, committed fans. But it was just a little bit too much a British brand. Making things and talking to British PA and all of us feel that this brand deserves more than that. With total respect and connection with the British world will always be our heart. But the brand is so powerful, strong, that really deserves to be translated. You know, I see my, my work a lot like the the one of a translator. You know, how can we take everything beautiful that has been done in this brand and unique and how can we leverage aviation? You know, the inception of the company was how can we build the indestructible pilot watch, which is very unique and interesting. And then in a very unique, quirky British way, we decided to put a prototype of the watch on the wrist of the mannequin that is Expulse at 30G by Martin Baker. And we came out with this cryptic case which is a built of a case with anti vibration and anti magnetic purposes back 17 years. It was visionary. Now magnetism is a big Topic it was not at all at the time. And then all the British shapes. So how can we take all of these, all this beauty, all this, you know, connection with the military since 15 years, serving more than 500 squad around the world. And these, this very strong story about durability, robustness that is at the very heart of a tool watch or of a sport watch. And how can we translate this in a tone of voice and in words that become appealing for the worldwide watch community? That's what we did. So we refreshed the brand because we wanted to extend the strength of the story from aviation only, which, to be frank, is quite a niche environment to, you know, sea, land and air, to adventure and exploration, to, you know, with this very strong motto, take it further. So, you know, leveraging our adventurer and explorers and seeing how the mindset is what allowed them to do things that everyone else believes impossible. Why? Because they have an incredible resilience. They never give up. They believe in themselves. They first face fear, they cope with risk. So everyone else out there, and in particular the new generation, you know, if they have a dream, if they have a project, they can achieve it if they apply the same mindset. So we really focus that, clarifying just the message, you know, because the brand had grown organically, it had achieved a level of complexity that was a little bit unbearable. Adding bits and parts in stories and connection and, you know, so it was becoming a little bit confused. So we just clarified, we ran this very strong project called clarify to simplify, to amplify, and in the communication in the branding in our collection, we use references from 200 to 70. We reduced the whole limited edition into now a core that is 64% and limited edition C on top. We reframed our operation to be capable of producing, to demand, to be very agile. And in the time turbulent times we are going through is absolutely fundamental. And we brought in a lot of talents from globally, the watch industry and just luxury industry to set up and to prepare the company for the future, to make all this beautiful British company future.
- [11:35]
C
Proof.
- [11:36]
A
You talk about the power of brand. There's no brand bigger in the watchmaking world than Rolex. I think we can all agree that it's, as I always say, not really a watch brand anymore, more of a phenomenon. And a lot of brands want to try and replicate what Rolex has done, but they can't, because Rolex was there to do this, that and the other. First, when people say, who is the modern Rolex? Funnily enough, I always say Bremont and what I mean by that is the power of storytelling. Rolex is great at only stories, but Bremont created its own narrative. And in the early days that was driven by the brothers, by Nick and Giles. Now they've obviously taken a bit more of a backseat. Now is that actually a freeing thing for you, allowing you to like, you know, grow the brand in new directions, access new markets and position it as you feel it's necessary for that next step?
- [12:27]
B
Yes. So I totally agree with you with the, with the comparison with Rolex. And also Rolex is over delivering, has been over delivering many instances for a long time and is a little bit, you know, I worked for them for 10 years to grow and expose Tudor. Same thing. You know, the secret ingredient was systematic over delivery and you know, systematic focus on value for money. That is what we are doing today at Bremen. And you know, because. And a good example is we launched Terranova, this new line linked to, you know, field watches and to military references. And you know, we decided to add an offer between £2,500 and £3,500, which is what has allowed us to sell more than half of our volumes in the last two years. It was definitely a very good decision. But at the same time that we were proposing, we were working to propose a little bit more affordable watches. We were moving all our steel into 904LST. It will sound you common for what you just quoted before, the best alloy that exists on the market. That very consistent with our story of durability. We launched the GRONS model, but not as bronze upra aluminium, bronze enriched with aluminum. The one that is used in aerospace and novel industry because it's much more durable and because the patina comes much better and is much more beautiful. We launched titanium. The new MB Meteor is actually titanium. The Supermarine 500 is ceramic. So you know, at the same time that we readjusted a little bit our price positioning, we also massively invested in quality. And then at the same time we also launched to serve our collectors and our long longer term customer to be on dwell time, a perpetual calendar dwell time. So we are also, you know, speeding a little bit our offer at the two extremes.
- [14:35]
C
You are very agile, very quick on your feet.
- [14:41]
B
I have a two part question.
- [14:43]
C
I'll start maybe with the first good place to stop. Do you think you went too fast when you arrived at premort? The market couldn't grasp the speed and changes that were executed? No.
- [15:02]
B
I think that it was big time needed and it was really linked to the existence itself. Of the Commonwealth. So I acknowledged that because we were quick we didn't prepare enough the market for watches and wonders or two years ago when these changes came. And a lot of people were surprised, shocked and lost. And anyway, when you change people never like change. But it was really needed. And in a way because of the very turbulent market here going to now since more than one year by chance we did that quickly because now we have already reframed all our operation. We are already agile. We can really produce two demand. We can really now balance limited edition and core. We could serve better our customer. We have dramatic improved our quality. All these things have become key competitive advantages for us to navigate through this complex period. And are setting the company up for peak success as soon as the market and the demand will recover. And also is reframe of our communication is extension of our collection of our offering term of prices. In terms of complications. The launch of the jumping hour, the launch of the high complication have always set us ready to crack into new market. So now we are really focusing on us and our business. There is skyrocketing. We are focusing on Middle east on India but we will also focus now on Europe which is the other big did market. So you know we needed to. To make it quickly and and. And it was a. I I need to praise team for huge effort that everyone has done for in the last 24 months. Because as Bill Appman likes to say with we fixed the plane while we were flying. Never easy things to do. And yeah and now we are set for success. And now the topic is really facing openings of market endpoints say in a proper way so that the resources that we have are channeled in the right way. But very clearly we are seeing a lot of new where they are seeing a lot of old customer coming back. And as soon as they touch the product and they put the product on the wrist they buy into it. And what we are doing. A lot of new customer coming, a lot of younger customer coming and a big topic was the young generation. So yeah, very happy what we did.
- [17:58]
C
Most of our listeners and viewers now today are very deep into the watching this. You may be new listeners or viewers that are not that familiar with the transition that you've ignite it. I dare to say is why do I say much most new CEOs that come to brand can't do much because you need to absorb the DNA. You need to see what assets you have at hand. You within a year changed zogo created a new name logo la but icon by the Way.
- [18:30]
B
Sorry to. To interrupt you, but I cannot tell you how many during watches and Wonder and Geneva watch days, how many people, customer and customer collector journalists are now coming to me saying, wow, well done. I really like what you have done. The logo needed really to evolve. You know, what we have done is just evolving. The beauty of the old logo was just a little bit too much focus into the nostalgia of the old days and aviation. Only the new logo keeps. There is a big propeller just at the. In the middle of the Wayfinder, but a little bit refreshed. This idea of traveling, of discovering, of adventuring the outer. The connection with nature, sustainability. And the lettering is a little bit bolder, more muscular and more modern, which is fundamental to connect also with the new generation.
- [19:24]
C
So because what you've done, usually brands need a year just to strategize on a a new name for the logo, let alone change the graphic logo. Then you create the whole strategy of not letting go of air, but adding multiple layers to the brand. So you did air landscape where Fremont had bit of C. I have a supermarine in my head. Yeah, so you did that. You added a whole new collection to connect earth with that anova. The name says it all. You came with a whole new shape of case, so you created a new family. Then you've. As if that's not enough, you did a whole new supermarine, a new case completely. You did not one new metal bracelet that most brands did. Two, three, four years.
- [20:14]
B
Three.
- [20:14]
C
You did. Yeah, the first year. The two. No, the first year, yeah, two. Brace was super weird. Year two now. And now I get a shirt and, and, and Rob knows he's making a lot of metal bracelets. To design them takes time. So you did prototyping. Yeah, super. And, and then, and then you listen to the market because okay, the market didn't like change. And then, okay, people said, okay, the Pathfinder, Wayf, Wave, Wayfair, the Wayfinder Big. So you listen to markets because it shrug a bit. You listen to the market and this and then that.
- [20:49]
B
I think they were, they were right. I acknowledged they were right.
- [20:53]
C
Well, okay, thank you for admitting that. My question is not so much. Did you listen to the market? How did you absorb that info in the markets? How do you and your teams operate on that sense to be so agile? Do you use, do you interact with consumers? Do you use social media?
- [21:10]
B
A little bit of everything, but I love to interact with consumers. I spend a lot of time in the boutique speaking directly with our customer. All the fare that we do, speaking with Customer. All the GMA watch days is a fantastic, you know, sample of people to. And this is fundamental, you know, discussing with people, sharing, taking points, arguing even is good. You see what I mean? We can, we can agree to disagree and you know that is fundamental to stay alive. Alive nowadays, you know, competition is so fierce, the market is so tough. We really need to be sharp to the point. You see what I mean? And agile and quick to adjusting when they need to be adjusted, which is what we need. And by the way, it's no. Yeah. Nobody launches a full new collection and everything is perfect.
- [22:02]
C
See the. What we call this in Italian pazo.
- [22:06]
B
Yeah. If you do, you are, you are Jesus Christ. And I'm not. So you know, you do at your best and we do quickly something incredible. And then it's the Rolex where you see what an iteration. The second generation is a little bit better and you improve from all the frequent that you had and better and better and better. And the game is staying consistent over time. Now we have a very clear product architecture. Seal and air supermarine Terranova and altitude. And now you know, we play into that game. We have a cam with a surprising complication. You know, the jumping hour in two different execution and that the Montrac AGI Shay was the strongest one. It shows that we are also capable of leading now in terms of trends and style and we are building up our unique style and design language. DMB has been enhanced. Is the 2.0 version of the previous one more wearable, a little bit more technical, sharper. It will in today present an incredible limited edition that is I think the essence of Bremont and they are just touching it and putting it on the wrist. I think it's incredible. And then, you know, and then also high end pieces, you know, we are distributing now the first pieces of the perpetual calendar dual time that we developed with Agenor. That is a monopusher with a second time zone displayed by a disc with the triptychase in titanium. A perpetual that you can wear every day that is robust and not. That is for Giant as it was the tourbillon that we launched last year. So we are now, you know, now it's clear the direction and what you are doing. And now because it's clear and people have a knowledge that, you know, we never wanted to drop aviation for sure. It's, it's, it's our DNA and it's our core and it's our distinctive element that links with Kish aviation. Now you know, it's I, I hear more and more People that say Bremont is the next big thing coming. And we, we feel that there is energy traction, we start to understand that, you know, there is clear direction, there.
- [24:26]
C
Is a lot of energy in this igloo. Because I have a zillion more questions, but Rob is jumping up another sphere. Whomever is watching the live stream, look at Rob's camera. Rob, Mike to you.
- [24:37]
A
So I've got to admit that I was one of those journalists who were skeptical after the first year. Very much so, actually. I'm very close to the brand. As you know, I work there and it means a lot to me, the success of Bremont. And I, I have to admit that on occasion I find myself being far more conservative than I like to think I am. And the speed of the change and the vastness thereof shocked me. And I remember coming away from watches and wonders 2024, I suppose it was thinking, what's next? The next step for Bremont is going to be pivotal. It's going to be make or break. Then 2025 came along and I went to the presentation. In fact, it was one of only two presentations I took in Pelexbo because we were media partners with time to watch us and we didn't have much time and I really wanted to be there to see what happened. And I actually, this has happened twice. You've, you've seen it, you've seen it. Both times I cried in the presentation. I wasn't sobbing, but, you know, like a tear, like, escaped my eye because when I got the meteor in my hand, I was like, oh my God, he's done it, he's done it. And this is, this is the greatest, like, exclamation point on a sentence that I felt was half written. And then I got it and I was like, I had to acknowledge I hadn't understood what you were trying to do and what you ultimately did with aplomb. I have to say, I have to hold my hands up like it's. I came away from 2025, I was asked by many journalists, I was even asked by some magazines in Dubai to give my top brand of the fair. It was Bremont. It was, and I have to say it was a joyful moment for me to realize that you had a plan all along and you knew exactly what you were doing and you managed to grow and refine the brand in that two step process. And Alon is holding the special edition. Keep it off camera, Keep it off camera.
- [26:35]
C
This weekend show so people understand that this is an evolution of The MB because people got scared. They're like, ooh. Davide is pushing the envelope and it is an evolution. And you reference to. We call them the green Hulk brand. They do but, but, but they. I always say on air is done a revolution but an evolution. They do baby steps like the 9 11.
- [26:59]
B
But you did a revolution that the MP meteor exists in 16 years. It's really our icons. You know it starts to get into when you get closer. Close to 20 years is really one of the watches that they've been capable to go through generations. So now we are just, you know, refreshing it, updating it, enhancing the result inside 70 hour power reserve. You know, gunmetal finishing. The wearability of the watch is dramatically improved. I had so many people say ah, beautiful watch. Brat of engineer. Have you bought it? No, why? Eyes too big. Okay, let's speak about it. You see what I mean? That can be adjusted. So that's what we need worked on disability with let's generation superluminola work on the ergonomics of the crown. So on the mechanism of the roto clip that now is super smooth on the metal bracelet. And now it's just, you know, the best iteration of this icon and we will have to continue to make it to improve as much as we can.
- [28:04]
A
I have to say that it is the best iteration and it set the stage for who knows what. The future is very bright. Alon, one final point before we wrap.
- [28:14]
C
Wow, so many dude. Really are you doing this to me now?
- [28:16]
A
Well, I've got to do it for healthy safety reasons.
- [28:20]
C
You gave me so many hooks, Davide. But we need to come quickly and do a one hour interview. Maybe let's finish it off on the revolution evolution story. I know you quite some time. We've worked on decent brands together. We even did an interview. I was happy about that. When you were on a sabbatical and your studio is the design kid. You and I had a very cool talk and I think it was on the ace list is you are visionary and visionaries are often misunderstood. You have the Britishness in you are cushion case shapes in the 2000 are claimed by the British now. It is the only one that b it was a bit of fierce uk. No, it's a curveball. Nobody saw it coming that you and or Bremont would do cushion shape cases. You created a platform. You were misunderstood also by us. I have to also admit I was less skeptical than Rob. But me the commercial hat kicked in. I'm like whoa, my breadw customers are going to get this. It's too much, too fast, too quick. But then I won't show the data yet. Check our Insta in a few days. We'll shoot pictures. Now this is it. We were scheduled. What is he going to do with mb? What can you do? How can you make it better? It was good.
- [29:47]
A
Yeah.
- [29:47]
C
Get it slimmer the clicks. If you've seen the video, right now I'm playing all day long. I fit the link.
- [29:53]
A
Every single part of it is better. That's almost impossible to do. And the movement is now there. You know, it's so good.
- [30:00]
C
And the proof is in the pudding. As they say. The British, you are a English dad dandy.
- [30:06]
A
English daddy.
- [30:09]
C
Sadie, you are a reincarnated British dandy because you made the Terra Nova come home to the English shores with the jump hour. Yeah. And that's Dunhill ISK. It is 1920s, 30s English Dandy IS. And you get it. And the consumers got it. Because it's sold Akuti. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:34]
B
Completely sold out. You know, Jeff Bezos says that if you are not ready to be misunderstood, then let's not do any business then do not try to innovate because that's what coming. And I totally agree.
- [30:47]
A
Okay, Alan, go on. One more question.
- [30:49]
C
Sure. Seeing signally grow when we don't have cameras. This is what we do. But now I have to be a good boy, sit down, not talk with my hands and not point at Robert. Sorry. What you see is what you get. This is the real time show. Everything is real. Davide, you've referred to Bill Ackman several times. Yeah. He is proud of being called an activist investor. Yes. Bremon is a passion project for him. He said that I follow his wife. Very.
- [31:17]
A
Such a weird thing to say on air. No, no, literally you follow his wife?
- [31:23]
C
I follow her. Her. Her research. She is a. She's a biologist and academic. I kindly invite everyone to listen to her interview. Her name is. But she goes by her maiden name now. You put me under the Bad.
- [31:46]
B
Oakman, I think.
- [31:47]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:49]
C
And they. They're very intellectual Debauchev. And he loves. He's not known for it because he's a hardcore investor. He forced companies he invested in to come off the Dutch stock exchange and he succeeded. My final question to you. How much pressure do you get for it being a passion project from him?
- [32:15]
B
I think one of the key ingredients of this success is also the relationship that we have. He puts a lot of pressure because he's very demanding overall. But he's incredibly aspirational because he's totally focused on opportunities. It's the only thing that he looks at. And he has even this fantastic philosophy about progress, making a progress every day or every week and the fact that progress compounds like financial assets and. Yeah, so for me, he's very inspirational. He lives with total freedom in terms of creativity, which is fundamental. And he's a proper serious heavy watch collector. So he's also perfectly understands what we are doing. When I show him the design, is he getting completely excited and he has points of view that we integrate and so it's a fantastic, you know, he's a proper investor with an incredible vision, but he's also a proper watch lover and watch collector and understands ibly. And he has taken over the company now really with this idea of the best successful setup is the family business wine. So now we are handling in as if it was a family business one for the long term and really, you know, taking the time to do things properly, to grow this for the years to come.
- [33:46]
A
Maybe you can put in a good word for us with him because he'd be a good guest for the show, wouldn't he? That would be interesting. Why not? Why not? David?
- [33:53]
B
Never say never.
- [33:54]
A
Never say never.
- [33:55]
B
No us.
- [33:55]
A
That should be our motto. Davida, thank you so much for your time. This is the longest episode that we've recorded at Geneva. We watch days 2025 normal with an Italian. Yeah, there you go. 34 minutes of Italian elegance and our English daddy. That's your new nickname. Right, guys, we'll be back very soon with more content from Geneva Watch Days 2025. Please like follow, subscribe and join us very soon.
- [34:26]
C
SA.