Geneva Watch Days 2025 — Manuel Emch, Kollokium And Louis Erard

Summary

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The Real Time Show – Geneva Watch Days 2025

Guest: Manuel Emch (Kollokium, Louis Erard)
Hosts: Rob Nudds & Alon Ben Joseph
Date: September 5, 2025
Special Host/Guests in This Episode: Ariel Adams, Ben Clymer

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Episode Overview

This episode, recorded live at Geneva Watch Days 2025, focuses on the artistry, innovation, and resilience behind the latest collaborations between Manuel Emch and his brands, Kollokium and Louis Erard. The discussion dives deep into the democratization of Métiers d’Art in watchmaking, the challenges and triumphs of creating hand-engraved pieces in Ukraine during wartime, pioneering new dial techniques, and defending the role of true creativity in the industry.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Hand-Engraved Watches: Democratizing Métiers d’Art

(00:23–04:38)

• Launch & Reception: Manuel and his team launched a new hand-engraved watch, which quickly sold out. This is notable in an era when “limited editions don’t really sell out.”

  • “It’s gone, it’s sold out.” (01:05, Manuel Emch)
  • “I thought you were talking about wholesale price when you mentioned the price. And even that’s low.” (08:04, Ariel Adams)

• Resilience and Story: The hand engraving is done in Ukraine, initiated during the war. The process is slow, personal, and symbolic of resilience.

  • “It’s more than a watch, it’s a lifetime story. It’s about resilience, it’s about actuality, you can even call it geopolitics if you want.” (01:35, Manuel Emch)
  • “At the very beginning, they obviously needed generators for electricity, and they could only access it at night because it was restricted energy. So again, it’s the whole story.” (03:19, Manuel Emch)

• Collaboration Origin: Connection made through hi-fi icon Mark Levinson, who, after sheltering refugees, discovered the engraver via a shared interest in watches.

  • “One of the women showed him some pictures of a friend who was doing engravings. And that’s how we started the whole story.” (03:35, Manuel Emch)

2. The Art and Difficulty of Hand Engraving

(04:38–06:07)

• Technical Challenge: True hand engraving—especially in steel—is rare and arduous. Each case takes approximately 40 hours and is nearly impossible to fix if a mistake is made.

  • “Imagine 40 hours long. You need to create relief depth because there are different depths and there is no regular motif in there. One mistake and you’re gone.” (05:13, Ariel Adams)
  • “The most difficult thing there is is engraved steel...this can only be done by hand.” (05:14, Ariel Adams)

• Humanity in Imperfection: The beauty lies in the tiny differences and the touch that only handcraft can provide—contrasting with machine/laser methods.

  • “You look at it, you understand. It can only be hand engraved.” (06:00, Manuel Emch)

3. Pricing, Value, and Accessibility

(06:38–08:11)

• Value Proposition: Price point is CHF 5,450 / $10,000 (for US buyers, due to USD/CHF rate and tariffs). Exceptionally low for true hand engraving.

  • “It’s probably the best value proposition that we have done so far with Louise.” (08:11, Manuel Emch)
  • “There are not many that can still do it. Well, I have difficulties finding them for my jewelry.” (07:57, Ariel Adams)

• Market Impact: Sizable chunk of sales comes from the online channel, with high demand particularly from US collectors who appreciate the uniqueness and story.

4. Wood Marquetry: Bringing the Old Art to the Modern Watch

(09:52–10:49)

• Technique Explored: The podcast shifts to another Métiers d’Art—wood marquetry—explaining the intricacies and perfection required, especially in geometric (rather than organic) forms.

  • “When it’s geometric forms, which we did, the eye will catch any imperfections.” (10:27, Manuel Emch)

• Production Realities: Extremely limited production due to complexity, sometimes taking years for small runs.

  • “We’re talking five years for 99 pieces. He can make two or three dials a month. That’s it.” (10:41, Manuel Emch)

5. New Launch Revealed: Contemporary Gold Thread Dial

(11:03–13:32)

• Reveal & Features: Manuel unveils a new piece with a stunning textile-like dial using gold thread, engineered with a patented process.

  • “It’s a kind of contemporary Meti d’Art. Two engineers who transformed machines that were used for it, slowed them down and actually are threading gold needles.” (12:13, Manuel Emch)

• Availability & Craft: Limited to 99 pieces, recently launched, still available at time of recording. Each piece aims to push the bar higher in craft and complexity.

  • “Every watch has to be better than the watch before...in terms of crafts, it’s really pretty incredible.” (12:53, Manuel Emch)

6. Pushing Contemporary Art in Watchmaking

(13:52–14:15)

• Modernizing Tradition: Emch discusses breaking from “dusty” traditional motifs and making artisanal techniques relevant to contemporary collectors.
  • “In Metidar, it’s not just about democratizing the Metidar. It’s also to make them somehow contemporary.” (11:25, Manuel Emch)
  • “I love geometric forms because they give contemporarity.” (11:25, Manuel Emch)

7. Kollokium’s Creative Drops & Innovations

(14:15–18:39)

• Lumicast/Lich Block Dials: Innovating with luminescent ceramics, stacking dials, and patenting new construction methods.

  • “We developed that technique, which some people know it, Lumicast, which is basically casted super Luminova in ceramics.” (14:15, Manuel Emch)
  • “It’s one dial which is made out of 67 dials...when you know how complicated sometimes dial feeds are, it’s been very, very complex.” (15:53, Manuel Emch)

• The Drop Model: Releases structured around themed ‘drops’ each trimester (“Friends, Family, Fools, and Flippers”).

  • “Now Friends, Family Fools and Flippers edition. And it’s pretty cool.” (15:09, Manuel Emch)

• Pipeline & Strategy: Focus on innovation, new technologies, and a deep product pipeline (70 novelties planned over three years).

  • “For me the number one value of a company in the watch industry is its product pipeline.” (17:01, Manuel Emch)

8. The Watch Industry: Creativity, Challenges & Change

(18:39–22:23)

• Creativity Before Heritage: The conversation sharpens into a philosophy of product-first, with creativity and agility as the heart of future-beating watchmaking.

  • “I talked about product comes before brand comes before origin. We’re moving away from consumer good into a kind of art product.” (19:09, Manuel Emch)
  • “I think what will make us successful is the capacity to reinvent ourselves.” (21:45, Manuel Emch)

• Embracing Market Complexity: Industry disruption (tariffs, international issues) is framed not as an obstacle, but as vitalizing and forcing innovation.

  • “We’re a creative industry. And what creative industries are, is reinventing, is creating, is innovating...problems are there to be solved.” (20:41, 21:45, Manuel Emch)

• Empowerment of Collectors and Brands: The market’s shift means empowered customers, more direct interaction, and thriving off the challenge to “do better, take more risks, innovate, create.”

  • “The customer is empowered. Okay? Customer wants, the customer exchanges, interacts. It’s not about how good your distribution is…It’s about how creative, how agile, how innovative, how daring you are.” (20:41, Manuel Emch)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the meaning of the Ukraine engraving project:
  “It’s more than a watch, it’s a lifetime story. It’s about resilience, it’s about actuality… it’s been very, very challenging to bring over the cases to Ukraine.”
  — Manuel Emch (01:35)

• On the value of craft:
  “Imagine 40 hours long. You need to create relief depth because there are different depths and there is no regular motif in there. One mistake and you’re gone.”
  — Ariel Adams (05:13)

• On industry mindset:
  “We’re a creative industry. And what creative industries are, is reinventing, is creating, is innovating.”
  — Manuel Emch (20:41)

• On pushing for the future:
  “For me the number one value of a company in the watch industry is its product pipeline…not what they do today, is what they will do tomorrow.”
  — Manuel Emch (17:01)

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:23 — Manuel Emch discusses how hand-engraved watches sell out quickly and their value proposition.
• 01:35 — Story behind the Ukrainian engravers and the human element of the project.
• 05:13 — Ariel Adams explains the difficulty of deep relief hand engraving in steel cases.
• 06:41 — Pricing and US sales breakdown; accessible Métiers d’Art.
• 10:27 — The challenges of wood marquetry with geometric forms.
• 12:13 — New gold-threaded dial revealed; technical description.
• 14:15 — Details on the latest Kollokium drop and “Lumicast/Lich Block” process.
• 17:01 — Manuel Emch’s philosophy on the primacy of a product pipeline.
• 19:09 — Watch industry as an art product, not a consumer good.
• 21:45 — On the perpetual drive for innovation and risk-taking in the industry.

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Conclusion

This episode is a dense, passionate exploration of where artisanal craft and contemporary watchmaking intersect, as embodied by Manuel Emch’s work for Louis Erard and Kollokium. Highlighting human stories, technical milestones, bold philosophies, and a focus on the future, the conversation is a must-listen for anyone passionate about horological artistry, the meaning behind the object, and the direction of modern watchmaking.

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Transcript

[Federico]

Foreign.

[Jack]

Watch fans and welcome back to Geneva watch days 2025. We are here in the glass igloo outside the pavilion with Manuel Emch of Colloquium and Louis Erad. So we've got a lot to get through in a short amount of time. Manuel, welcome to the studio. How are you today?

[Manuel Emch]

I'm very good, thank you. Thank you guys for having me.

[Federico]

Welcome, welcome. You keep hitting home run after home run. You respectfully democratized and you guys keep on going. It seems the well doesn't run dry. If I may. Engraving, engraving, engraving.

[Manuel Emch]

Hand engraving, hand engraving. People, people thought you should be hand engraving. No. But at that price. A lot of people actually challenged us saying no, it can't be hand engraved. But it is.

[Federico]

You launched this last week, two weeks ago.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah, I can't keep track of the launches anymore. I'm sorry.

[Federico]

That's okay. I saw the intent go crazy.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah.

[Federico]

What were the responses? How did it go?

[Manuel Emch]

Well, it's gone, it's sold out.

[Federico]

Limited. So in an era where we don't do FOMO anymore and collapse and limiteds don't really sell out, Definitely not.

[Manuel Emch]

Quick.

[Federico]

Why?

[Manuel Emch]

Value proposition. Look, I think, I think, I mean personally I always dreamt of having a hand engraved watch, but there's nothing available on the market below. Let's say 20, 30, 40,000 price ticket, which always I thought was a frustration for me because it's a fantastic add on, on the watch. It creates an identity that's very unique and it's been on my, it's been my to do list for Metidar since day one. Took me a while, it took me a while to find somebody who is actually willing and capable to hand engrave at a decent price. It wasn't in Switzerland, as a matter of fact, still in Europe and it was actually in Ukraine to be precise. So I bought back my karma a little bit, you know, and it was very, very difficult because this is a collaboration that we started three years ago in the midst of the war and it's been very, very challenging to bring over the cases to Ukraine to make them engrave. You know, for me it's more than a watch, it's a lifetime story. It's about resilience, it's about actuality, you can even call it geopolitics if you want. But it was wonderful and I was very, very happy to bring it on the market. So it took us a bit of time because we also wanted to be sure that we have at least 60, 70% of the watches ready because I Was sure it's going to sell out very quickly, and they did. And Maxim, who engraves them, can only do about 8 to 10amonth. So by end of the year, they're all delivered. So it's pretty quick.

[Federico]

But so eight, eight, ten a month. So calculating quickly, if he works eight hours a day, it's almost 16 hours a case.

[Manuel Emch]

No, it's much more. But you misunderstand. You're too European.

[Federico]

He works more hours a day, a week.

[Manuel Emch]

Look, look. One of the keys is that these guys, when they want to do something, they do it. They've shown us a lot of resilience. It's about 40 hours of hand engraving.

[Federico]

Amazing work week.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah, he has a bit of support, obviously, but also there's a bit of preparation work. They don't. Eight hours. They don't know. They know 24 hours a day. You know the very interesting thing, at the very beginning, they obviously needed generators for electricity, and they could only access it at night because it was restricted energy. So, you know, it's again, it's the whole story. It's not just the product, it's everything that goes around it. And for hi Fi fans, this is a very interesting story. How did I end up getting into contact with Maxim is through one of our clients, Mark Levinson. I don't know who knows Mark Levinson, but I think he's pretty much the Pope of hi Fi. And he is now in Venice. He has new company called Hertz in Venice. He's a good friend, but also collector of mine. And when the war started, he sheltered some refugees. And since he's into watches, that's how the connection started. One of the women showed him some pictures of a friend who was doing engravings. And that's how we started the whole story. So I think it's beside the fact that it's a wonderful watch, it's incredible value proposition. It's also an incredible history of human.

[Federico]

And let's talk about why it's a material and why you emphasize it's a machine. So for those that might not know engraving so much, the majority will see today's laser engraving. Even the backside of our iPhones, for example, watch cases will see also laser. Back in the days, you will have a pen that engraves either automated or steered by hand. My dad is a diamond cutter, polisher and goldsmith. Goldsmiths know this. You have a diamond pen, an engraved pen. It's a basically a very hard steel knife.

[Manuel Emch]

You.

[Federico]

And the most difficult thing there is is engraved steel. They used to do Precious metals. This can only be done by hand and for. So imagine 40 hours long. You need to create relief depth because there are different depths and there is no regular motif in there. One mistake and you're gone.

[Manuel Emch]

Absolutely.

[Federico]

You can't fix it.

[Manuel Emch]

No, you can't fix it. No, you can't. So it depends how deep you're already in the engraving. But what makes the difference, what makes it beautiful is also the deepness of it.

[Federico]

Exactly.

[Manuel Emch]

I mean, you could eventually do laser, but the problem is you want to have deep laser. Probably going to take you more time to. To do it and it's not going to look the same. It doesn't have that imperfection. It's. I mean, it's perfect. But it has that little human touch that you can see. You look at it, you understand. It can only be hand engraved.

[Federico]

Wedding mans. I only engrave. Let them engrave by hand because they'll. You wear them your whole life, they fade out.

[Manuel Emch]

Absolutely.

[Federico]

And then the art is. I'm pushing my fingers. If you can reach the silky finish, it's difficult because you have to imagine you're scraping away metal. That's what you're doing. So you have rough edges. So congrats. Amazing. I also love tattooed engraved watches. Is he willing to do chapter two?

[Manuel Emch]

I think we eventually, maybe will have to because the demand is. Is pretty substantial. Let's see.

[Jack]

Have we touched on how much this watch is retailed for?

[Manuel Emch]

It's actually. It's 5500 Swiss. 5450 Swiss. And it's very interesting talking about prices because you may know we do a substantial part of our business online. About 40% of our annual production is sold. Annual revenue is sold online. It's about 30, 35% of the production. And so we do around 3,500 watches. Not much, but. But we sold. And on the online majority, the biggest customer, the biggest market is the US and we applied the tariffs. So this watch is $10,000 because the exchange rate, plus the 39% tariffs, plus the sales tax, depending on the state. And we saw more than usual in the U.S. wow. So I think people understand that this incredible value proposition. You will never find a watch like this below multiples of what we sell it.

[Federico]

Collectors that had this done off the market to their Rolexes Nautiluses, that was a trend for a while. They know what they paid then and go find the artist today to do it. Because it's a dying profession.

[Manuel Emch]

Absolutely.

[Federico]

There are not many that can still do it. Well, I have difficulties finding Them for my jewelry.

[Manuel Emch]

I can imagine.

[Federico]

I know what you think. And I fell off my chair. I thought you were talking about wholesale price when you mentioned the price. And even that's low.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah, but see this? It's like the wood market tree. Obviously it was a bit. It created a little bit more discussion on the forums because people just didn't believe it, especially engravers, Swiss engravers. Sorry for them. They thought it was impossible. But obviously they work differently. They work at other conditions, and that's what they offer to us. We said your price is our price. But indeed, I mean, it's probably the best value proposition that we have done so far with Louisa. But see, it's interesting. We also did the woodmarketry with Bastin Chevalier, which has basically two clients, us and the big house that I can't name, but that starts with a V and finish somehow in a C. And. And he only makes for the autologous. He only makes based on complications on tourbillons, minute repeaters. And I think that kind of democratization of Metidar is fundamental because, you know, watchmaking is more and more about people. It's more and more about craftsmen. It's more and more about the watchmaker. We see that with the independence, the raise of the independence. And I think Metidar will have substantial part of this because complications have been democratized already. You know, today, to have a tourbillon, you can have a tourbillon for 15,000. We have our Silverstein tourbillon at Louisard at 15,000 Swiss. You can have it at 150 or 1.5, it doesn't matter. But people sometimes misunderstand complications because it's not just about the complications, it's how you do the complication. Whereas Metje d', Art, it's full about time. It's how many hours you spend on the watch.

[Federico]

So for those that are not that familiar with marquetry, I always call it, respectfully, it's the parquet of a dao. And if you still don't know what I mean, those that love backgammon and you know, the old school backgammon boards, just run your fingers over it. And like your parquet at home, you'll have gaps and it will shrink and it will expand. I looped your marquetry down. It was so flush that I didn't believe it was market tree.

[Manuel Emch]

Oh, yeah.

[Federico]

And it's miniaturized. And you have to imagine they cut wood and they need to put it all together. Yeah.

[Manuel Emch]

And you puzzle it in, you lift it and you know one thing that people underestimate? Market tree. When it's organic forms is easier, you see less. But when it's geometric forms, which we did, the eye will catch any imperfections.

[Federico]

Exactly.

[Manuel Emch]

That. That. But we're talking five years for 99 pieces. So it gives you a. Gives you. It gives you. He can make two or three dollars a month. That's it.

[Federico]

Yeah. Amazing. We have a cloth there still.

[Jack]

There's a cloth. Yeah, there's a cloth on the table.

[Federico]

You want to reveal it?

[Jack]

I'll go ahead. Yes, right in front of you. Go on. Let's see what we've got here. I'm so curious.

[Federico]

Please take it away.

[Jack]

Woof.

[Manuel Emch]

It's a killer, huh? Yeah.

[Jack]

That is gorgeous. Let's have a look. I'll get it on the camera.

[Federico]

Escheresque.

[Manuel Emch]

Well, I like Escheresque. Stuff somebody wrote on Instagram. Oh, another Escher Emsch design. I'm pretty happy to be associated with Escher. Come on. It could be worse.

[Federico]

I say it as a compliment.

[Manuel Emch]

Me too. I love geometric forms because they give contemporarity, you know? Also, when we did the guilloche dials, they were always geometric. I think in Metidar, it's not just about democratizing the Metidar. It's also to make them somehow contemporary, or let's say a bit more in its time and not just like floral. And, you know, I'm an art collector. When I go to a contemporary art museum, I don't like to go too much to art and history museums. I find it a bit dusty. And that's the same thing I'd like to see on watches, especially on Metidah.

[Federico]

Before we pivot to pushing contemporary art in watchmaking and go to your other wrist, let's just focus on this. What is this? Limited. What did you do? What's the finish? What's the price points? Manuel?

[Manuel Emch]

Okay, easy. First 4,500 price point. It's actually gold threads. It's a kind of contemporary Metidat. Two engineers who transformed machines that were used for it slowed them down and actually are threatening gold needles. I think 2400. It's like a suit. It's like a gold suit dial. And it comes over like this. It's machine made, but with a machine that they patented. And it's pretty incredible. Limited 99, obviously still available because you're.

[Federico]

Just showing us stuff we can't buy.

[Manuel Emch]

Yes, still a few pieces available again because of time to market. We also just launched it yesterday, I think, or two Days ago. In general, it takes a few days to sell out. But what's interesting also, we increased. We also made the hands a bit more complex. We really try. I mean, look, every watch has to be better than the watch before. And I'm. I'm one of these persons that was always looking for the next one. Improve, make it better, make it more valuable, make it more exciting, make it more interesting, make it more crafted. And I think in terms of crafts, it's really pretty incredible.

[Federico]

Beautiful. Run to your retailers if you want to see it in the metal. And if you're trusting the zoom on E. Com, give it a. Give it a look.

[Manuel Emch]

And the video, which is quite explanatory.

[Federico]

Yeah. On Luiera.com.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah. And on the Instagram account as well.

[Federico]

Yeah. Which is the same name at Luira.

[Manuel Emch]

Official. Official, can I say.

[Federico]

All right. It's out there. You'll like it. Talking of contemporary, you've been on the show as well with your dear colleagues. Where are you guys at today? Since then, I think you've launched two, three more drops. I see something on your wrist.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah. This was the last drop where we. It's basically based on project one, but it's a new case. It's a new sapphire crystal. Why? Because we developed that technique, which some people know it, Lumicast, which is basically casted super Luminova in ceramics. We called it Lich Block because we redeveloped the whole thing. The initial project one has 468 pins. This has 488 pins. So even the design is different. And each and every pin is molded and then applied. So only the. Only the. I'm not even talking about the number of pins. Lumicast. But each and every pin is assembled and the assembly of a dial is about eight to nine hours. Just the assembly. And our Swiss supplier, initially we came with this idea, said yes, but Each pin is 14 Swiss francs. Okay. I said okay. And it's not going to work for us. We'll have to find another solution. Which we did, obviously. That's why we patented it as well, or trademarked it at least. Look, it was 399 pieces. It's old. Everything is sold out. So now we're moving into this logic of drop every trimester. Yeah, we're gonna. We present in Geneva watch days actually don't present. We risked market, guerrilla WISP Market, Project 2, the Friends Family Fools. But now we added the fourth F flippers because we so many people flipping the watch at the beginning. So now Friends, Family Fools and Flippers edition. And it's pretty cool. It's like Project one, new case, new Sapphire Crystal. Same philosophy in diecast, but this time we stacked up 67 dials. So it's one dial which is made out of 67 dials which are stacked up, which each and every dial has dial feats. And when you know how complicated sometimes dial feeds are, it's been very, very complex. And it's organic shapes, a bit like topography. And we fill in the different topography levels. There's nine levels with Super Luminar obviously which we like. You know, we have Amar is the Lumaddict. We gotta respect that. And we start with this first, Friends, family, Fools and Flippers edition here in Geneva. Watch days which basically go to our VIP clients, those who really supported us from the beginning. And then there's going to be a commercial version coming and probably whenever we manage to produce them. But the idea is somehow a drop at Trinister.

[Federico]

Will you continue project one? Yeah, but so in parallel they'll be.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah, we'll try to mitigate a little bit between one and two. We also already work on project three and four. You know, I'm a believer of product pipeline. For me the most important the brand is not what they do today, is what they will do tomorrow. And for me the number one value of a company in the watch industry is its product pipeline. And with Luya we have a three years product pipeline. 70, 70 novelties which are already in the pipeline. Let's see when we will launch them and colloquium we gearing up. But we have around two projects and then we're not going to fall in the trap of color. We do a few additions, but not too many. Then we change technology like Lumicas or Leash Block, which is really, really out of this world. We started with purple again because of amr. We will have a color which people be more at ease with because not everybody likes purple.

[Jack]

How dare you. Everybody loves purple.

[Manuel Emch]

Not everybody does. It's very interesting actually in Asia they're not so purplish.

[Jack]

Really?

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah. Interesting. Well, we sold them anyways, it doesn't matter. Good news is we had a little bit less headache with some allocations, but it's gone. Yeah. And then we continue on the flow. I mean it's all about flow at the end of the day. You know, you said okay, you, you drop every month. It took a bit of time to get up to, up to speed. But then again it's not, it's not what you do today, it's what you what you have in your pipeline for tomorrow.

[Jack]

And things are flowing for you, aren't they? I mean, you're one of the most positive people that we've encountered. Not that anyone's been particularly openly negative, but, like, I don't get the sense that your endeavors have really been as disrupted over the last couple of years as many brands. And I think maybe that has something to do with the creativity that you apply to all of your projects and how it always stands out, and there's always time and space for that. And have you noticed that on the ground, like, with your colleagues in the industry and talking to people?

[Manuel Emch]

Well, I've seen how many Silberstein collabs have hit the market after mine, and how many are doing with Vianney and how many are roaming around Chaikin. The world's a bit more vast than these three, which I have a lot of respect for, which are wonderful watchmakers. But see, one thing that people underestimate. I talked about product comes before brand comes before origin. We're moving away from consumer good into a kind of art product. We're not there yet. We're somewhere in the middle. And I think people value product and people value innovation. People value creativity, not just in claims or taglines, but really in what you bring on the market. And I think unfortunately, and unfortunately, to a certain extent, what happens today with the tariffs, the more difficult market actually is. It's good. It's good. It's salutary for our industry. I mean, nothing is cut in stone or hammered in stone. We're a creative industry. And what creative industries are, is reinventing, is creating, is innovating. And I think we've been maybe a little bit in our industry, a little bit too comfortable. You know, get the old excitement for a small case or a colored dial. I can't get it.

[Federico]

You just gave us a sound bite plus a philosophical challenge for a future episode. Is the Swiss industry watch industry creative? We might beg to differ. No, because many don't realize that they should be. And that already says that there aren't.

[Manuel Emch]

Yes, but. But the market has changed. What people have to understand. The market has changed. Today, the customer is empowered. Okay? Customer wants the customer. Exchanges, interacts. It's not about how good your distribution is, how many points of sales you have, how many middle management, how many marketing teams you have. It's about how creative, how agile, how innovative, how daring you are. I mean, we do things. Not everything is successful. And that's good, because if everything was successful, we'd be probably as lazy as most of the others. Sorry for that. But it's a bit of a. It's a bit of a. It's a bit of a reality. I think what will make us successful is the capacity to reinvent ourselves. And I consider myself an entrepreneur and anybody who's listening to this podcast, you know, as an entrepreneur, what is life? Life is dealing with difficulties. Okay. Every day, in and out. Okay. We have a crisis, we have conflicts, we have tariffs. So what? It's part of our lives.

[Federico]

Problems are there to be solved.

[Manuel Emch]

Yeah. And they have. And it just challenges. And I find it exciting when the moments are a bit more interesting. Okay. To a certain extent, it seems that what we do has the resonance and the impact. People like it. But we have not won the battle. We are just there to constantly, every day we push ourselves to do better, to take more risks, to innovate, to create. And I think that's what the beauty of our industry is. We can do that because again, we're not selling a consumer good anymore. We're selling more than that.

[Jack]

I think the industry needs more people with your attitude and your mindset, to be quite honest. Because yes, there are challenges that come to us, but you have to have the willingness to attack them and to go back with something worthwhile. And you have done that and you do it relentlessly on all fronts with Louis Arad, with Colloquium, with whatever it is that you do, and a few others. Yeah, we need to get you back on the show again for a full hour long episode. But we're going to let you go now because your busy day. Thank you very much, Manuel.

[Manuel Emch]

Thank you. Thank you for having me, both of you.

[Jack]

It is always a pleasure. Anytime. If you'd enjoyed this and please like comment, share subscribe. You know the drill. Join us soon back in the Glass onion for more content. It.