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- [00:00]
A
Foreign Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Knutz. I'm flying solo because for the first time today. Well, two firsts are occurring, actually. We've got two guests in the studio, Thibaut and Rafael from Alto Watchers. And we've opened up the curtains to reveal the torrential downpour that Geneva has gifted us. What a shame, after all that beautiful sunshine that this is how the opening events party is gonn be conducted. But it's at least comfortable. Are you both comfortable or are you both nervous about the fact that we're live?
- [00:39]
B
Very comfortable.
- [00:41]
C
Not nervous at all.
- [00:42]
A
All right.
- [00:43]
B
Okay.
- [00:43]
A
Well, that's good to hear. I'm glad that we haven't put the fear of God into you. Now, we've had you on the show recently, Thibaut, because, of course, Alto has been one of the most talked about new brands because of the bold design language that has been roundly praised, to be honest. And you're our kind of guy because you like doing things in a different way, Raphael. Also, I know you like doing things in a different kind of way. We got to know each other in a lake, by the way, almost naked.
- [01:08]
C
Well, yeah, almost. Almost. And the weather was even. Not as good as this.
- [01:12]
A
Yeah, true, true. It was a. It was a great bonding session. So rather than talk about the brand that we've discussed, obviously quite recently, I think the best thing for us to do is maybe focus on this very event itself, because events are very important to new brands. But everybody's got a different story. You are a brand like few. You have really attacked the watchmaking game from a very creative angle. And so I'm sure your stories will be interesting, unique, and something the listeners will get a lot from. So tell us, how has the event been so far on day one, and what do you think of Geneva watch days in general?
- [01:45]
B
Thank you for having us, Rob. Real pleasure, even if the rain is here, but real pleasure to be in this bubble. Now, the relationship with the Geneva watch days, we. We first came last year as an exhibitor. The feedback was really good. We see a major difference with watches and wonders, which is much more formal, much more, not to say professional, but very formal. And now it's like rent des classes, as we say in French. So everybody spent summer somewhere, did the homework, and now we just gather all together. And the importance of this type of event in September is crucial for me because. And I think that we're going to share the same. The same vision with many Brands just because we need to see each other and gather each other and then the year has been so weird in terms of geopolitics business. Everything is unpredictable. So yeah, it feels good to share how the year is coming and the.
- [02:51]
C
Future and the casual vibe of the Geneva watch days is very pleasant because everyone, all the watch world is there and you get to share with collectors, with people from retail, with Swiss press and with everyone in a very relaxed way, like the big family of watches.
- [03:10]
A
It is, I always say, the most intimate of all the watch events and one that I think everyone's got a real soft spot for because of when and how it came about and how it sort of brought us all back together together and how thrilling it was in those early days. This is the 6th edition of Geneva Watch Days, which strangely makes me feel old somehow because I mean I've been to them all and I remember them all clearly. And this one already is off to a great start for me. I think that the watches we're seeing released are pretty top quality. I think that's it's a good slew of new releases. What have the reactions of people been to your pieces? Because of course, although there's not so many novelties, it's really a continuation of that first step in the industry. There are many people that still have never had an Alto in their hand and on their wrist. So give me some like up to the minute feedback of customers or potential retail partners that you've talked with today.
- [04:00]
B
Yeah, it's exactly that. I mean we are very small brands, so even if we announced free novelties in April, May this year, not a lot of people have seen it. Many journalists, some collectors, but not retailers, not a lot of retailers. So we, we catch up with them now. We spoke during summer, so it's very important and we still continue to be unknown for many a lot of people. So it's good. It's just the continuation of showing who we are, explaining who we are, counting the story and counting also what's next, what's the future? And yeah, we really focused for this event and for this edition to the business parts and retail strategy.
- [04:49]
A
Okay, so that is interesting because I want to know more about that because your price point is where do you start? What's the entry point?
- [04:56]
B
It's the monochromaticians are 25K. Okay, I'm speaking CHF Euro. Well, yeah, yeah, 25K. The gold edition is 61K. And yeah, I'm not talking about next, but we are into this.
- [05:10]
A
Okay. So obviously they're not entry level pieces, let's say themselves. They're the luxury price tag for a luxury product. But is there within that price enough space to work with retailers in a traditional manner? Because you know, a lot of people looking from the outside in, they'll say 25 grand or obviously like, you know, there's, there's a massive margin. But you know very well from having done it up close and personal that making watches like this that haven't been made before and not in this way, it's extremely costly and there is rarely money and there's a lot of, like there's a lot of failures along the way. Right. This is one thing that people, I think sometimes you go on blogs and magazines around the world, you see the comment section criticizing a price for whatever reason. They don't see the thousands of failures and the attempts and the research and development and the sleepless nights that you're up scribbling away at a desk. That's probably what you do most nights, Rafael I imagine shirtless in a dressing.
- [06:04]
B
Gown, as we know, maybe we a bit better prepared than others in the way that I used to work for Audemars Piguet during five years, I wasn't in the commercial side, I was in the marketing and communication side. But I was in contact with the retailers, the clientele. So I knew the mechanism. Even if it's 10 years ago, it hasn't changed a lot. So maybe I'm a bit more prepared than others. But still it's tough, it's tough to, to have your direct consumption, the retail part, some distributors, agents. There's so many ways to sell your watches. The most important thing for us this year is that we received, since we launched those three editions limited, we received a lot of demands from different regions in the world. And we're like, yeah, but I'm in France, it's in Switzerland, Whenever you is from Australia, is from Saudi Arabia, from the us, from Argentina. And we can get the chance to meet them personally within the next days to show the products because people are interested, the people talk about it, but they need to feel it and to see it. And it's important to have events like this and also to prepare to have physical presence of the watches in different regions. So that's where we're heading because it's.
- [07:26]
C
A watch which is so different from most of the watches on the market. It's not like a round 38 millimeter watch. I mean the volume is very particular and people want to see the watch. So the idea also of Having partners everywhere is like, for people to get to see the watch.
- [07:45]
B
Okay, so we just made an announcement yesterday or two days ago about our very first retail partner in Saudi Arabia.
- [07:53]
A
Congratulations.
- [07:55]
B
So it's the first milestone. Yeah. For the, for the brand. And, yeah, now we have presence there, so people from Saudi Arabia can come to the retailer to see the watches, to fill it. And I've been there two months ago to prepare that.
- [08:10]
A
So let's talk some numbers. Are the pieces limited to a strict amount?
- [08:15]
B
Yep.
- [08:15]
A
What's the limitation?
- [08:17]
B
So for the monochrome editions, it's 30 pieces gray, 30 pieces black, and for the gold Falcon eye edition, it's 12 pieces.
- [08:27]
A
Okay.
- [08:27]
B
So the first edition was 25 pieces.
- [08:30]
A
So that's not even a hundred pieces in total. 97 pieces in total, if I may have added that up wrong. But it's, it's not a huge volume. So there literally aren't many of these pieces in the world. So we're not talking about a retail network of 100 points of sale. We're maybe talking one representative per consonant, that, more. That kind of thing.
- [08:53]
B
That's the idea.
- [08:54]
A
Okay, that's the idea. All right. And so that means you got around 100 pieces in action or existence or having sold already. How many do you expect to do a year? Are you aiming for around years to come, like your yearly targets? Like, what would you say your maximum capacity would be?
- [09:13]
B
The idea is to stay around this figure for next year.
- [09:16]
A
Okay.
- [09:19]
B
We, and then, who knows? But we want to reach 100, 150 pieces in the three, four years to come. And then we'll see what happens. We'll see the appetite, we'll see what we can go out of the production also, because there's a production limitation itself in terms of capacity. So, yeah, for now, the plan is to steadily grow, but very smoothly.
- [09:46]
C
Carefully.
- [09:47]
A
Carefully. Carefully is the word. No, I, I honestly think it's a, it's a beautiful limitation. It's, it's a great number. It's going to be extremely exclusive. Watch worldwide at those levels. And if you hit your 150 pieces a year target, that's not going to change. And if you have maybe we're saying what, like five to 10 key partners, retail partners around the world, and they maybe have a stock of like three pieces each, if that just to get the feel of it on the wrist, then you may be only doing 15, 20 of your business through retail, which is a pretty agreeable amount, I would say, when the rest of it's going to be direct to consumer. So nice to see the sustainable plan. A bit of realism and that something so special will remain special, which to me, strangely enough, it doesn't always manifest in a desire for the product, but it does make me want this watch more. I think because it is so special. Even if it were unlimited, it would be like nothing else. And the fact that it is both like nothing else and limited is actually quite allure for me. But, Raf, tell me this. What is it that people say to you about the design, particularly the seconds hand? Because we should talk about the seconds hand. If people haven't had the watch in their hands and seen this thing operating, maybe you could tell them what they would expect to see from the seconds hand and then tell me what they say to you when they've seen it.
- [11:07]
C
Well, actually, I was not responsible for the second hand because when I joined Thibault, I already had that to play with. And the question, like, we're thinking for the future, should we keep that? And for me, it's a subtle signature. So some people see it right away, some people don't. Some people has to really focus and said, okay, can you point a difference? Oh, yeah, right, right. Some people find it dysfunctional, very few of them, because the main feedback is that it's a very, very nice touch and very subtle touch, and it does not disturb the legibility of time. I mean, you can still easily, from the first sight, read the time and say, okay, it's half past four. And you never say, it's half past four and 27 seconds. So it shows that your watch is alive and it tells also a beautiful story. And for me, it's something that is, let's say, a design philosophy, is that every creation has to tell a story. And this feature talks about a story that even if your present is running forward, I mean, you still have your memory and everything that goes backward that fueled your present. So it tells something which is really meaningful. And the same time, it's a very nice signature in my sense. So I really want to move forward with that idea, which is not obvious signature and a big logo in the middle of the dial.
- [12:38]
A
Just to clarify, what we're talking about here is the second hand goes backwards. And I find it. And this is going to sound maybe a little bit like unnecessarily grand, but I find it strangely grounding. And I think it's something to do with what you were saying about, like, your memories in the past and where you've come from. It's almost like when you see a seconds Hand going forwards. I never think about this consciously, but you kind of feel like, oh, you're sort of rushing towards time. Whereas when you see the hour and minute hand going in the right direction and the second hand going backwards, it somehow grounds you in the present where there's that tension between the future and the past.
- [13:15]
C
You actually don't see the hours and minutes running forward. I mean, you know that they are. And if you look at your watch 10 minutes later, you'll see that your minute hand will have moved from, from 10 minutes, but you don't feel the. The time which is running.
- [13:30]
A
Yeah, I like it. I. I do like it. I was perplexed by it at first, but it's not the first watch driver backwards running, second hand. It's extremely rare, extremely rare. But it is something that I've grown to really appreciate just through experiencing it, you know, on paper. If I read about it, I'm like, yeah, but why? And then you see it in real life and you actually get a different sense, which is. I think it rounds out the product really well and I love it. But aside from the seconds hand, we've got a very complex case. We've got a very complex dial structure. We've got, like, one of the most unusual wears on the wrist. It doesn't really feel like anything else. Tell us what people have said to you. Have they said the same thing? Have they been surprised when they get it on the wrist? Are they happy with how it fits and feels?
- [14:13]
C
It's really personal. I mean, it's all about taste. I mean, taste is personal. And once again, the idea is to tell a story with a watch. But the main point is you have to be honest with your story. If you're honest with the story, you're saying you're really going to touch people. If you fake a story to please everyone, in fact, you're not pleasing anyone at all. But if you are true to what you want to say, and you go 100% in that, and that's what we do with the design of the outer watches. There are some people who say, okay, it's not for me, and it's fine. And there are the people who say, okay, I really like that because it's very honest. And I mean, with the quantities that we are aiming, you only need to touch people, but to touch them real.
- [15:01]
A
And talking about the future, as we mentioned earlier, what can we expect to see from the brand? Because you've got this core tenet of the seconds hand going backwards now, but you've, you've got a design that is iconic enough to. Overuse an overused word, but iconic enough to stand alone, really. To really be a cornerstone of the brand and be something that is built on and refined over and over and over again, or will that remain something that is on its own or alone? And then you will explore different ideas in completely new case shapes with completely new materials or things we couldn't possibly imagine. We.
- [15:36]
B
It took. It took me a lot of time to develop this. This shape. Yeah. So we're gonna stay with this shape, but play around the ergonomy, the sizes, the dimensions. In the future, we are thinking and developing more than thinking, developing actually a smaller size with a metal bracelet that is going to be released hopefully next year at Geneva watch days. So. Yeah, but again, when you reduce the size, you need to start with a new movement because everything was made only for this shape. So you need to start over, basically, in terms of movement. So it's like a new project, a new baby. But we're pretty confident that it's going to be exciting.
- [16:19]
C
But if you, if you. I mean, going back to what you were saying, it's like, okay, are you starting over completely or. Or are you just working and playing with the same rules, basically? It's always the question that you have to ask yourselves when you work on a strong aesthetic. I mean, I used to work and to design watches for Cartier for 12 years. And here the purpose is like, you take an aesthetic that is 100 years old and you basically have to reinvent it to project it into the future. And here the piece is only one year old, but still it's a very strong DNA that you have to play with. And the questions are, what do I keep? What is essential to the DNA and what really belongs to Aalto? What should move or evolve to go in the smaller size and what could be changed completely. So it's the question of where do you put the balance between keeping the aesthetic and changing it to making it evolve to propose novelty. So you have to stay close enough to be true to who you are, but then you have to propose something new. And it's not just, okay, I take the size and just 88% down. It doesn't work like this because then the proportions feel different, the thickness feels different. So it's a very fine work. It's an amazing game.
- [17:50]
A
An amazing game. That's a great way to put it. That's really what we should put the subtitle of Watchmaking the industry as when they make a movie about it. In Hollywood. One last quick question before you go because I know that the meetings are not yet done for the day even though 6 o' clock is racing upon us. Where can people see the watches at events later on this year if they've not seen them already? Will you be at Dubai Watch Week?
- [18:10]
B
Will you be anywhere else visible in Dubai Watch Week? There might be an event in India just after Dubai Watch week that we will attend. We are in New York during the weekend of watch time. New York in October. Yeah, that's 17, 18, something like that.
- [18:27]
A
Exactly. Right.
- [18:27]
B
Yeah. So and then before the end of the year I think that's it.
- [18:34]
A
Well that's a few opportunities, right?
- [18:35]
B
Yeah.
- [18:36]
A
Okay. Well everybody has heard where they can see Alto and we advise that you do see them because they are an absolutely fantastic up and coming brand doing something like no one else. Like subscribe, follow and catch up with us tomorrow live from Geneva Watch Days.