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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Watch fans. And welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds. I'm joined by our Amsterdam based, friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alain Ben Joseph to recap the amazing time we had in Geneva during Geneva Watch Week, which of course played host to Watches of Wonders, the brands showing at the Beau Rivage. Time to watches Chronopolis and various other brands showing their wares around town. It was a hectic week. I think in total, we had close to 200 meetings between us because we split up this time and ran round like maniacs trying to see as many people as we can. But we're gonna break down our experience of the fairs. We're gonna talk about the top four fairs, the official organized fairs that we went to, give you our top three watches, maybe a couple of wildcards in there as well from each, and then look ahead to the future and talk about what we think might need to happen for Geneva to continue to have the lure that it does right now. But first of all, we're going to talk about what we thought about the whole week in general. And to kick us off with that conversation, I'll pass over to my co host.
- [01:09]
B
I've never been that long in Geneva. Eight days. Biggest fair ever. I have to say, I even miss Baselworld more now. But it was awesome. The number one question I got all week long, Rob, and the biggest quantity of whatsapps are, hey, where's your office? Where's the glass igloo? Where are you guys? So some people missed the memo that this year the Real Time show was the media partner for Chronopolis. Time to Watches was awesome. They did a different format. They didn't have a studio this year, so. Might come back, might not, but the Iglo might come back. So stay tuned, guys. I loved all the messages that we, that we, that we got. And the feedback for Chronopolis episodes were excellent as well. So that was great fun.
- [02:08]
A
Yeah. Just to clarify, the difference in our partnership this year with Chronopolis was that we pre recorded all the episodes before we got to the fair, so we didn't have to drag people off their booths or try and force ourselves into that glass box in the middle of hot weather. So yes, you can check out all the episodes that launched during the fair. There was four that went out every day from Chronopolis titled Chronopolis Radio, appropriately enough. And I think that partnership looks likely to continue in the future. And for those of you that missed the Igloo Just keep your eyes turned towards Geneva watch days in September because it might make a return starting days early on.
- [02:45]
B
I missed a swim. I did bring my swimming trunks and the flip flops. You did go.
- [02:52]
A
Yeah, just me.
- [02:54]
B
I was shattered from Grand Duking and we grand duked a lot. Is that a verb? Dear Rob?
- [03:03]
A
I think it is now, mate.
- [03:04]
B
Yeah. The highlight of the Grand Duking was actually the last night where we had a whole darting tournament going on. And I must say, Rob, I was very impressed with your skills. And it seemed the more liters of beer that went down, the more bullseyes you've hit. So guys, he is really, really a multi talented chap. This guy can do anything and everything he does, he does to the best of his ability. And his abilities are Superman level. Anyways, we're deviating. Back to watches. We kicked off. Well, we both arrived on Monday so we did a bit of meetings in Beauvage hotels. I went to ahci, the Independence in Icebergs. I think I've missed you. There I met my childhood hero, Vianney Halter. Had the honor to hang out a little half hour with him, which was amazing. We talked watches, kids, family, the future, watchmaking. So very exciting. I even went back twice there on one day. So that was great fun. Next morning, first thing, 8:00am Opening day, Chronopolis. I was there, you were there. Most of the brands weren't. So they are cool cats because half of them overslept and half of them were setting up boots. Yes, that was funny. But what an epic show. Great setup, great vibe off the bat because we hung out there in the morning and everybody's coming in and it's like, like an old frat house or a Mensa at the university where everybody hangs out. So during the week I've frequented almost every day. I did miss a few highlight was the party. It was so crazy that I arrived at 8pm I think I left at 1:30 and I did not find Rob once. We've been apparently going in circles in the masses of hundreds of people and I've shook hands and gave hugs to over 2, 300 people. But I did not see Rob there. That's how good the party was.
- [05:16]
A
Yeah, good for you. That's for sure. I was there, but not there for as long as you. I went to the Ulis Nadam boutique party beforehand and loaded up on some incredible cocktails that they were serving in lab glasses which was really amusing and very much on brand for the well laboratory that is Ulis Nadam and when I arrived at Crinopolis, which must have been around 10, I suppose having funnily enough met one of my heroes, not for the first time, actually for the third time, but for the first time to have a proper chat to Peter Brown, famous German journalist who I mentioned in my interview in Despiegel which came out in December. I think he'd got wind of the fact he'd been mentioned by me in this. In this write up by Felix Dachshel, a former guest on the show and a top chap who writes about things other than watches as well. If you didn't know, check out Felix's work because he is on a global exploration of craftsmanship and luxury products. It's quite incredible to see the stuff he's encountering on his travels. But talking to Peter along with Steffi Krieger of course, who we know very well from Elisa, damn was an absolute joy. And I really do mean that. I was, I was very touched. He asked for a copy of my book. He asked me to sign the copy of the book that I gave him, should I say. And I have to remember to take a better pen with me because it's really. I don't get asked for autographs very often, not even say it wasn't actually the first time in my life it's happened, nor the second. But I never have a good pen. I have or even have to borrow something from someone. I have a shitty little Bic and I'm like, don't, don't this up. I did it up a little bit, but hopefully he'll forgive me.
- [06:48]
B
DM Gary Steingard. I quite sure he has put some signatures in books in his life.
- [06:54]
A
Oh, funnily enough, I've actually got. I've got a signature of Gary's on the shelf behind me from the. The book that he gave us when we met him in, in Dresden a couple of years back. So I left for Ulysse Nadan party about, yeah, about 10 turned up to Chronopolis and I thought I was witnessing some kind of mass invasion of Geneva. It was unbelievable. Truth be told, there weren't that many people inside the building itself, but the courtyard area or the atrium was completely rammed like it looked like gatecrasher in the 90s. It was just a club atmosphere. There were great vibes, as the kids would say. Everybody was laughing, smiling, dancing, drinking, smoking, having a whale of a time. It was the closest thing I've seen to the kind of parties we used to have in Basel, since Basel and we reference Basel Because I too had that feeling this time. For some reason, I really miss Basel world. I don't know whether it was just how everything was close together, how the booths seem more creative, or the parties seemed wilder, because let's face it, I actually prefer Geneva town centre to hang out in than I do Basel's. And I think the prices are comparable. And somehow in Geneva it doesn't feel quite so extortionate. Although it is wildly extortionate. What gave you that feeling yourself? Why did you think back upon Basel? And how does that reflect upon your opinion of Watchers and Wonders in its. In its current guise?
- [08:16]
B
On the logistics side of things, both you and I. But you heard a lot of people losing time on the commute. I was catching up with our dear friend Asher Rapkin from Collective Horology, as we always do after fairs. And he also said that he wants you. I think you did that as well. You guys went two, three times back and forth in one day between city center and the airport area.
- [08:40]
A
So the PAL Expo, I did it once on Thursday. I went back and forth twice, which was intense, intensely stupid probably more than anything. I did that because I got a last minute meeting with IWC and I really wanted to stop by and say hi to Andrew and see the new stuff. So I did it. It was hard work.
- [09:03]
B
It's hard work, but. But it's inefficient because usually people are there two, three days, five max journalists I extended to eight days because I also did a bit of wholesale this year, which was maybe too long, because it's really long, but you lose valuable time. So that's something that I missed in the centralized organization of Baselworld. Now, on the fun side of things, the Messer Platz was where everybody congregated. That was awesome and fun. There were good parties. Shout out to Breitling. But you're right, Geneva is more fun than Basel as a city. So a tip to brands listening to this episode. Definitely make sure you sponsor next year's Chronopoulos party, because then you'll be the hero of the town. So a little marketing tip from us, Rob. I'm quite sure that our listeners are fed up us rambling on about how hard we partied and how much we drank. Let's get into watches, because that's what they're here for.
- [10:05]
A
Yeah, sure. Okay. Well, let's start. Let's start with the big fair. Let's start with Watches and Wonders. What we're going to do is we're going to share with you Our top three or thereabouts watches from each of the four major fairs. So that's Watches and Wonders, Time to Watchers, Chronopolis and the Beau Rivage. We'll just call it the Beau Rivage. For this go around. We're going to do them in reverse order. We'll alternate. So I'll go first and say my third choice. Alan will give you his third choice. My second alon's second. My first alons first. We'll have a little bit of analysis, but we're going to buzz through them, spending no more than 10min on each fair. And then we will do a little bit of a roundup and add in anything else that we might have seen on the wrists of people frequenting Geneva. And there was a lot of stuff, a lot of good stuff outside of the fairs, actually, maybe even my three favorite things I saw on wrists outside of the fairs. So number three for me from Watches and Wonders. And this is tough. All of my choices could be number ones and in fact they probably all deserve to be. But I'm gonna go for this incredible Parmigiani chronograph myster which has this hidden chronograph mechanism. The watch looks like a basic three hander. No sub dials. Very, very clean. Beautiful Dove blue. Dove egg blue. I think that's what I would call it. Dove egg. Duck egg blue. Duck egg. It's not a Dove Duck egg blue dial with regular handset. There's a pusher at 2, a pusher at 7, pusher at 2, a puser at 7. That's right. When you start the chronograph, an extra set of hands appears from well beneath. Actually what happens is the hands that were telling the time snap back to zero to start counting the chronograph on the central axis. And there's another two hands that were hidden beneath the time telling hands that stay in place and continue to track the time while the chronograph is running. It is a complete redesign top to bottom from the chronograph mechanism. The whole concep new. It's been executed with the kind of grace and delicate touch you'd expect from Parmigiani. And it is, I think, one of the most triumphant debuts of a model I've ever encountered. What do you reckon?
- [12:21]
B
I think, Rob, our top three is going to be rather similar. It would have taken my first position, but I have a little hunch that your number one might be the same as my number one because I've been in the same room While we've been presented that watch I'm thinking of, I unfortunately have not seen this Parmigiani. And like you, I love Parmigiani very much. This is the ultimate, ultimate, elegant and discreet chronograph in the world. It's bonkers. I don't think they made enough noise about it. I really regret not seeing it. The proof that I love it is I, I. Besides my beloved the Real Time show podcast that made me a true journalist, I write now articles as an independent journalist. So for Gentleman's Watch, I had the honor now to write year and a half and it's a tradition in the making. It's now the second time I had to write an article after the fair, but the deadline is very close so I had to type it up on the plane. So I had to rack my brain. What is my top 15? Had too many words so I had to redact it to top 10 watches. That watch made it there for sure. Not much to add if you don't really understand what we're talking about. Remember the GMT that they did? They went square and made a chronograph out of it. Sublime.
- [13:42]
A
Yeah, it absolutely is. I think discreet is the. Is the word. Word of the day for that one. And nicely chosen on your part. My second choice now, I believe our top two are probably going to be. Hang on a second, what's your third choice?
- [13:56]
B
It's that one.
- [13:57]
A
It's that one. Okay.
- [13:58]
B
Right. It is that one. And it would have been the number one. If the number one isn't the number
- [14:05]
A
one, I'm pretty sure that our top two are going to be the same as well. So I think we're going to have the same top three, amazingly, despite the amount of watches we saw. But I think we might have them flipped.
- [14:15]
B
I'm actually maybe throwing a curveball at 2, but let's see you go first with your second.
- [14:21]
A
All right, well, just to put the cat amongst the pigeons, I'm going to put this watch is. This is the watch that has my heart. Okay. So let me just qualify this by saying my number one pick is my number one pick because it's the watch I've been calling for. I've been asking for it for years and it's a watch I would actually buy. Number two is the watch that I think is maybe the reason why I'm into watches. And so it occupies a very special place in my heart. This is the latest evolution of the now 25 year old model line, the freak from Ulis Nadam. This is the super freak. This is, I would say, without a doubt the freakiest freak of all time. It's an unbelievable execution of the concept, which was conceived by Carol Forestier in the late 90s concept for which she won the Breguet Prize in I think 97, beating out legendary watchmakers such as George Daniels and Derek Pratt. She took this idea to Ulysse Nadan, or Ulysse Nadin, saw this idea and said, hey, we can do something with that. And together with Rolf and Ludwig and the whole team at Ulysse Nadan, they were able to solve the only issue she had with her concept. And that's a low power reserve. When Carol debuted, say Carol like I know I don't. I wish I did. She's a legend. But when Madame Frostier debuted this concept, it had I think 12 hours power reserve, 10, 12 hours, something like that. And by redesigning the mainspring and placing it around the movement, basically they were able to up the power reserve to what is now, in this particular model, an incredible 70 hours, I believe, which is absolutely nuts. It's a double tourbillon freak with components within it that are mind blowingly minute. I think it was the most impressive thing I saw all week. It was a small glass file of what looked like white sand, but when you put it under a microscope, you could see these were actually perfectly finished spherical ceramic ball bearings that are used in that mechanism. How watchmakers pick those up and insert those into the watch, not even I can conceive. So incredible work. Beautiful. To talk to Mathieu as usual. Thanks to Steffi, thanks to Lisa for sorting out the meeting. We adore Elise Nadan and I think that's going to be your number one. But let's find out what your number two is.
- [16:40]
B
I'm going to throw the ball at you. On the recording with Mathieu, you asked me how many spare parts in the Super Freak. How many parts?
- [16:48]
A
Well, there's zero spare parts, mate. They're all very, very necessary. It's a good question. So the movement's got over 300 and the whole thing's got over 500. But you put me on the spot there. It's, it's, it's a lot. Maybe it's like 5, 2, 6 and 3, 7, 1 or something like that. I might have those numbers or, you know, the tens the wrong way around. But it's, it's ballpark that. So it's incredible.
- [17:08]
B
So I think I said on the recording 5:13, but I think it's 5:11. So it. That made that. That made my first spot. I know which one is on your first spot. I actually am not going to put that on number two. It did make my number number 10 because I'm throwing a curveball because my number two is the twice unique by Nomos.
- [17:31]
A
No way. Yes, that is. That is a curveball beyond curveballs. Well, Roland Schwertner, take a bow. Jesus Christ.
- [17:38]
B
Yeah, and you know why you're a dealer. I saw it. Nobody paid attention to it. The table was in the booth. The booth was extremely busy. I want to give a shout out here to Frederic Constant and almost. I was of the. I've been at PAL Expo from Monday through Monday. I skipped Saturday, so I've been seven days inside PAL Expo day, afternoon, even early evenings. And besides Patek and Rolex, Nomos and fredericonstar were the busiest booths. All day long. You couldn't get in. I took my retailers meeting with Nomos outside because it was so packed I couldn't even get into the boot. So they did the rectangular table with the normal novelties. And then they talked a bit about the round table. Well, I said, what is that? So they explained the concept of twice unique. I'm like, whoa, this is like the Ark of Noah. So they made a rolling art project where artists design a dial and they can choose a model, tangente, orion, etc. And then they make one in gold, one in steel and you're eligible to buy a set and you need to write an essay why you want to buy that watch. They're not doing AP style by being arrogant. They just want to say who's the most passionate. So I think that's amazing. And it's a rolling project because there will be more dials added, new artists added. I mean, the genesis of our relationship, dear Rob, is Nomos. And the first collab we ever done is art. The style. The watch I'm wearing right now is the fierce the style. I have a third art collab project in the pipeline. It's very dear to my heart. It's maybe a bit nerdy, it's a bit artistic, it's a bit geeky. But I really love that Nomos did this. Very philosophical.
- [19:36]
A
Incredibly so. Yeah. So philosophical. In fact, it's still taken a while to settle with me. I was a huge fan of their latest club sport World Timer. I think it's the best one they've done so far with the white dial. Much plainer than anything that's gone before. But I think that that one, once again, I've Said this every time because when the Clubsport WorldTimer came out, didn't really hit me, particularly in the feels. God, I'm talking like a kid. I've been hanging out with those Chronopoulous guys too much. But I've been warmed to it with every subsequent release and I was. I really liked the the trio of black dialed and neon accented models they did last year. This one for me though, this is the purest expression of the concept. It looks like a nom, feels like a nomos, and I'm glad to see it in the collection.
- [20:21]
B
So funny little side note, to show you how humble Nomos is, they had a little tiny price increase recently and they kicked up the world timers to 4400 in your invat. Okay. Huge waiting list still today at ACE for these nomosis, they launched this new dial, a third one into the core range. You're right, it is the best one of the three. The ACE list mailbox exploded. Huge waiting list for the 792. But then we were talking about pricing. Strangely enough, that watch is €140 lower in price. So we thought. I called Dale. I'm like, dale, dude, you made a typo. Uploading into our website. He's like, no, alone. It's really lower in price. So I think because they used a bit of less color and it's not really metallic, they could have easily made it 4400. But it shows how ethical and humble nomoses. So again, kudos to nomos. All right. Dear Rob, should I guess your number one?
- [21:19]
A
Yeah, go on then.
- [21:22]
B
Bulgari octo finissimo 37. But then it begs the question. Gold, steel? No, sorry. Gold or titanium? Titanium. Matte or polished? I was sitting in the room with you and actually the half matte polish was growing on you.
- [21:39]
A
It was growing on me, yeah. But I definitely, definitely would take the fully blasted one. So I've, I would have the baby brother to yours so we could finally match because I've always coveted that watch. As you know. I've loved it on your wrist. You've got a bigger wrist than me and it suits you just fine. But for me, it looks like I'm wearing a credit card on a bracelet. So I always wanted it smaller. They did a great job. They didn't just like. I mean it is basically a one for one reduction. But the movement had to be totally redesigned. It's a new movement to get it to fit. And they nailed it. They absolutely nailed it. Like the Bulgariotto Finissimo has always been, as we say, a modern icon and we don't use that word lightly, although it does get thrown around very easily. But this is the one that they needed to reach a wider audience and not just women. Although it's obviously more wearable for everybody. So it's going to hit a few female wrists that the previous one couldn't have hit, but just for average wristed sized guys like, who loved the Octo finissimo concept but couldn't wear the original. Amazing stuff. The kind of like just nuanced development that we want to see from brands. It's a commercial decision, but it's a smart one. I love it. That's my number one.
- [22:41]
B
Thank you. I've kind of already said which one is mine. We've spoken enough about it. So maybe while I'm hogging the mic, I quickly want to give a shout out to a few watches that stood out to me. Maybe you want to share a bit more. A very close top three contestant was the Van der Cloud Venus. For me, they made an annual calendar, new box, sapphire box, crystal. It's a new design language that they're distilling from the Grand Planetarium, which really resonated with me. Huge surprises for me and that's why I love fairest. You walk down the halls and people pull you into booths. So I got pulled into Rue de Silva and that's something that I've never seen in the middle, actually didn't pay a lot of attention to and I was blown away. Met Jackie, the owner. Amazing. So if you've never paid attention to them, I highly recommend you to do so. And something that was very high on my list for many years is to meet Marco Tedecci of Cross Studio. And finally at this fair, I had the time to sit down for an hour with him and his team. I was blown away. Something I also highly recommend all our dear listeners to pay a bit more attention to. He is coming on the show, we invited him, he committed. So we will oblige and follow up. And something that I also really enjoyed is spending a bit of relaxed time with the Ferdinand Umberto. What a joy.
- [24:15]
A
Oh, yeah, Wonderful watch as always. Love Ferdinand Berthold. Like really doing the legacy of that name justice for me. There were maybe three more that stood out as like potential contenders for the podium and that was the Czapek Hour jumper model designed by Thomas Fonda, which I absolutely love. I think it is unexpected and delightful on the wrist. Totally different aesthetic. It's a shame that it's so limited and when it's done, it's done. Because I really think that that would be a very positive addition to the collection going forward. In addition to that, the Moza pump, the streamliner pump. Hard to ignore how cool that watch is. Harder still to ignore how cool the kicks that come with it are some custom Reeboks. Reebok, although it's owned by a US company now, was founded in Balt and not too far from where I grew up. So I've got a bit of hometown love for that one. And maybe the most surprising model that shook me was the Bianchi Rotondo Ultrafino carbon skeleton, sky blue. So there's a lot of things in that watch that you wouldn't associate with me. Carbon skeletonization and so on. Tourbillons even, don't get me started on that. But I tell you what, that's a beautiful watch. It's really wearable and I think Bianchi are going places. Let's move on to the next fair. Let's just go right round the corner to time to watches and. And I think I can guess straight away what our number one is going to be. And I'm sure there'll be a lot, a lot to say about that. So I'm going to go straight to my number three. And I will say anything by Alexander Beauregard, because I love what Alexander does. I think he is uniquely talented in the industry. There aren't many and I can never say the word, but lapidarists. Is that the words? Did I get it close? You know more about that than me.
- [26:04]
B
Yeah, Lapidarist. Yep, Lapidary. Lapidarist. Yeah. Gemstone king.
- [26:10]
A
Gemstone king. So he finishes his stones by hand and the way that they fit together is a jigsaw for the mind. It's absolutely beautiful. He's a Montreal based Canadian guy, has collaborated with one of your heroes as well, Vianni Halter, who you mentioned earlier. So some serious watchmaking provenance in those pieces too.
- [26:29]
B
Nothing lied about that because while I was sitting with Vianni Halter, Alexander popped by and I hung out with him as well. They have a beautiful mentor, apprentice relationship, almost father, son like, or brotherly. There was banter, there were hugs, kisses, mutual respect. Was beautiful to see, actually. And that's why he. No, it was funny. No, he gave. No, no, no. Was brotherly. Brotherly, respectful, warmth. Was beautiful to see. So both of them are wonderful human beings, obviously, fantastic creators and creative masters. But it was nice to see that they had this Mutual respect going on and willingness to help each other. So I saw that actually in life.
- [27:19]
A
I mean, that's the thing, though, right? You know, there is this. I mean, Vianney is a elder statesman of the industry. If we could be so bold as to call him that. Hope he doesn't mind us putting out how long he's been around and in the game and at the top of it. But Alexander's at the top of his game and I think that that's what makes this fusion so beautiful and so natural. Like, Vianney does stuff that Alexander can't do, Alexander does stuff that Vianney can't do. And when they come together, they create a timepiece or timepieces that no one else, no other duo could put out there into the world. So that's why it's so special to me. What's your number three from time to watchers?
- [27:53]
B
Our number one is 100% the same and it might be my all time hero of the week. And it overshadowed almost everything. So it's almost the other side of the polar end. It's the squal sub 37.
- [28:12]
A
Wow. Yeah, you went right to the other end. Yeah. Interesting. I love Squal. Of course, we. We have a lot of time for them and the people behind the brand. Good wearable watches at an affordable price. Talking of that, that leads me into my second choice from Fears. Now, I couldn't decide which which of their releases or which of the models they had on show to. To put in this. In this spot initially, I was going to go for the new pastel dial, Redcliffe's the 39.5 in sherbet yellow, soft peach and pale lilac. I'm particularly a fan of the soft peach myself. Love a soft peach. Can't get enough of those that time of year as well. But no, I think the one that really has to take the biscuit for me is the Brunswick 40.5 jump hour China Blue. I've seen pictures of that model online, but I hadn't seen it in person. And that China blue dial, oh, it's just. It's serene. It pulls me in. The finishing on the surround, the sort of guilloche pattern is unreal and it's wearable, it's smart, but it's also got enough presence to be worn casually on a leather strap or a suede strap. Even better, perhaps. Absolutely. Top stuff from Fiz. And that watch is €4,100 for a jump hour as well. So the guys down in Bristol are still doing great work and Long may it continue. What's your number two?
- [29:39]
B
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Stuck in the middle and we're unanimous. It's, it's maybe a bit boring. I have the coral one and I said, oh, how many can you make? But the pastels are such good colors. But these chaps and wonderful ladies in Bristol, they have something going on. It's this elegance. There's something contemporary and the magic sauce is lee. It just works. And they were so busy that they filled half of one of these private rooms. They could have filled the whole room. I wanted to ask you this rope. Do you think it's time for Fears to move into Watches and Wonders?
- [30:23]
A
That's a very good question. Fears are a very interesting brand in that they could feasibly feel at home in any of the four locations. You know, they've got the community aspects to them that would land them squarely in Chronopolis. They've got the sort of old school elegance that maybe fits Belle Rivage very nicely. They've got the up and coming players that sit generally in times of watches and they're well enough established with a long history and, you know, a family lineage through Nicholas himself to justify a spot in Watches and Wonders. I would say no, I don't think that it would benefit them greatly commercially. I, I think they could go anywhere. If I were them, I would maybe retreat to Beau Rivage actually, because I think that being in the center of town might benefit them from the, the after hours liaisons that could occur through that.
- [31:15]
B
Interesting. Okay, shall we say the number one simultaneously?
- [31:20]
A
I'll let you take it away. You give us, give us a bit of a breakdown on this and why you think it's so special.
- [31:26]
B
So I'm quite sure you also picked the pull 60 by Dominic Renault, which I knew of course he's going to pick. Although we didn't discuss the. This Dominic Renault is a legend like Viani Halter, if you don't know who he is. Co founder of Renault and Papi, bought long time ago by Audemars Piquet and then taken over by Renault. Papi, he was dormant for quite some time, came back to the scene with a blast, launching the brand Renault xie, the Monday watch. And this year, just before the Geneva watch, week before time to watches, they launched a second brand, the group behind the master, Dominic Renault, a standalone brand. Dominic Renault with the Pulse 60, a 1 Hz watch, new caliber, thinking outside the box, visually very appealing. And the honor is to our resident watchmaker to explain what is so special about a 1 Hz calibre. Dear Rob.
- [32:38]
A
Well, what's so special about it? It's. It's extremely engaging to watch in operation because the swing of the balance is so slow, it is naturally a. As it's one hertz, that means it has two ticks per second. So you get perfect half second readouts from a second hand that seems to tick right. So obviously we talk about the smooth sweep of something like 36,000 VPH, Zenith, El Primero, but it's not actually sweeping. It's still stepping just 10 times per second because that's a 5 Hertz caliber. The general operating frequency in the industry nowadays is 28,800 VPH or 4 Hz and that is 8 ticks per second. Still appears to be sweeping, especially if you're working with a sub dial seconds hand because that tricks the eye into making it look smoother. Other things exist. 21,600, 18,000, both exist. That's 3 and 2.5 Hertz. But this one, this one Hertz caliber actually looks almost like a half deadbeat seconds. Now, a deadbeat seconds is a complication. Separate, or maybe not complication is the best way to term it because similar to a tourbillon on, for example, it actually just provides a different way of seeing the time or the time being communicated to you rather than adding a function, which is normally the definition of a complication. But deadbeat seconds is quite hard to come by. And that's a, that's a mechanical movement that ticks once per second. They do kind of try and say that it's like a additional complication because it looks like it is, but because of the operating frequency, it's just what happens when you have a 1 Hz caliber. So if you understand how calibers work, you can kind of like see that for what it is. But what it is is incredibly unusual to witness and wonderful to see on the wrist. The massive, massive balance wheel at 6 o', clock totally visible on the dial is the star of the show. But this watch could have just been a technical achievement. What makes it so special is that it's also aesthetically pleasing and extremely wearable. And I should say something regarding the technical achievement. There was a lot of work that went into actually making a 1 Hz movement work. And how it works is the balance kind of rotates twice in one direction and twice back against on itself. The spring kind of unfurls and then collapses in on itself to enable enough impulse from the escapement to keep driving the balance Backwards and forwards. But ultimately a watch is only, as you say, a beautiful watch, is a sold watch. A watch is only sold if it's beautiful as well as technically interesting. And in this case, it is beautiful. It rivals things like the Antarctique and like the Streamliner. Even better than the Streamliner, to be honest, in terms of wearability, because of how low profile and ergonomically formed it is. The really nice integration of the rubber straps, it's lightweight, it comes in lots of different color formations, some bi color in there as well. It's a home run hit. I've said this before and I keep on finding myself surprised by what people are capable of, but I don't know how he's going to follow it. I'm sure if anyone can, Dominic Renault is the man to do it. So let's move on. After sharing a top spot there at Watch at Time to watches to the next fair we're going to attack is Beau Rivage. Now this one, this one is interesting. There was a lot of brands showing there. We didn't get to see them all, but we saw quite a few. I think that on this one we might not have much crossover. So I'll kick it over to you to give us your third place.
- [36:12]
B
Third place goes to a meeting I wanted to take for a long time. It's with Marco Borrachino from Singer. That's the beauty of taking more time in a city and doing fairs. I actually went to him on Monday, he was there, I was relaxed, I landed was actually my second meeting. We had time to chill out and actually our mutual friend RJ walked in on his birthday. So we hung out together, had a little salute for his birthday. He also loves Singer also very much. So it was nice to jam a bit. I never took the time to sit down, relax with a loop to see how magnificent is. So I was really taken aback by what they do. And he's been on the show and I think he's now three, four collections in or models or calibers. It's really impressive and I urge collectors that are triggered by the looks or have heard about them to study the watches, go see them. The finish is second to none. There is actually a design philosophy behind it and it has not so much to do with Porsche, because initially the Singer reimagined name comes from the car tuner that tunes Porsche cars. But the watches have not so much to do with that. The dive track that I guess was a lot of people's number one last
- [37:54]
A
year is Bonkers well, was it last year or was it two years ago? It feels like it was a long time a while ago now, I think. I think they had like the 1969 chronographs and time onlys last year maybe.
- [38:06]
B
Yeah, the time onlys maybe. Maybe the dive check is already two years ago ago.
- [38:10]
A
Crazy.
- [38:10]
B
Still very impressive and he has a lot of creative ideas both visually and mechanically. So it's a brand to take. Well, I, I want to say serious, I, I don't think anybody doesn't take them serious, but it's not a gimmick brand, if you know what I'm saying. So it, I think that maybe using the name Single Reimagined harms them more than that. It helps them and it seems that they're losing the reimagined name a bit because on some watches the reimagine is taken off some they're still on. So I think it's a big rising star.
- [38:48]
A
What's yours? I think you're right. Well, I think on the subject of singer, you're right. There's an evolution there where they're really trying to flesh out a collection. So the brand is known in its own right as a watchmaker. And I think Marco is doing a sterling job and he's a lovely man, extremely talented designer and we wish him all the best. My number three, I can't actually talk about it that much, which is good because we're obviously running out of time because we're chatterboxes, because we signed an NDA to say that we wouldn't say anything about this watch. So I'll just tell you the brand and tell you to keep your eyes on alto. So yes, we actually signed in person, non disclosure agreement. But what they've got on the horizon is definitely worth checking out. So I'll skip straight ahead to my number two to keep things moving along. This was a last minute appointment that I hadn't expected to take. I was contacted by Moose from 289 Consulting and asked if I would stop by and see Antoine Presusio downstairs in the Hidden bar star underneath Beau Rivage. And I've got to say I could pick any number of watches from him as the star. But I'll just say this. The company is family owned, family operated. He works himself with his daughter who is extremely talented. Gem setter. Check it out. They're doing wild stuff and it is super wild. It's kind of a bit of an echo from like the early 2000s, early 2010s, but they're still going down this track. Big watches, bold complications, excellent stone setting. Worth a look.
- [40:15]
B
I believe that his daughter and son are now in the company and they're making a push for it again. Is that true? I read that somewhere in an article.
- [40:24]
A
There's definitely a lot of energy around the brand this year. Like it's been on the scene for many, many, many years. And it's always been in the back of my mind as like an extremely talented, talent rich operation. But this whole family, not something I was even aware of before. So I think it's quite a recent decision to really push down that track and inject some vitality into concepts which has plenty of legs.
- [40:49]
B
My second. I'm at my second, right?
- [40:53]
A
Yeah, you are, yeah.
- [40:56]
B
So my first one was crystal clear. I just need to rack my brain who I've seen there. And my second was almost. The first is a brand that I never paid attention to and the reason is why. And I've told a few of these corner owners why I think their logo is horrendous. The font is horrendous.
- [41:21]
A
Love it.
- [41:25]
B
I don't like so much when they blend two words and then share a letter. Do you already know what brand I'm talking about? I know. So when the last letter is the first letter of the second word and then they blend them into two and they share the letter.
- [41:41]
A
No, I'm drawing a blank.
- [41:42]
B
Hardcore hotel luxury. Very impressive. But just because of the font and the name, I've never paid attention to them, which is very shallow of me.
- [41:53]
A
It is. It is shallow. But I. I love the fact that you have a stance on it, at least. And I'm. I'm trying to think who it could possibly be, but I'm. I'm afraid you're gonna have to tell me.
- [42:02]
B
Me. Art time.
- [42:05]
A
Oh, yeah. That's fucking horrendous. Yeah. So is it not also a bit of a play on, like our time? When you say it all at once, it sounds like our time and it's our and it's time. Like, is it okay, look, I think it's actually kind of nice. It's an easy word to say, but is it too clever for its own good?
- [42:25]
B
Okay, this is very interesting. It's funny that you said this. I've sent several people to Lee Juan Rapathy during the fair because I said you urgently need new fonts, either for your date, disc numbers on your dials or logos. I'll mention only two to be a bit discreet, democratic. Art time. I begged him to go meet Lee. And the second brand, I took his hand and literally took him to Lee inside Villasara. What's the second brand? You just mentioned it.
- [43:02]
A
Did I?
- [43:03]
B
You just said the name.
- [43:05]
A
Did I?
- [43:05]
B
Our time. Your time. There's a brand there that's called your time.
- [43:12]
A
What? You are time.
- [43:13]
B
Yeah. Lovely guy, but nice watch. I, I, he asked me for my feedback. He didn't even know who I was. Yeah, he didn't ask who I was. He just asked me out of. Dude, what do you think of my watch?
- [43:26]
A
Much?
- [43:27]
B
I'm like, okay. Alone. Bite your tongue. Alone. Bite your tongue. Alone. Shut the up.
- [43:33]
A
But I didn't shut the up.
- [43:34]
B
I couldn't, I couldn't. Everybody that knows me, the poor guy, he literally wanted my feedback. I said, you're Swiss? Yes. I said, you Swiss don't like criticism. So he had a smirk on his face, said, do you want it or no? He's like, yes. I said, are you sure? He's like, yes. I said, I love this, I love this, I love this. I said, is this a final product? He's like, yes. I said, can you make new dials? He's like, no. I said, do you still want the feedback? He's like, yes. I said, your name. We can debate about it. It's funny. We'll keep your name as is. Can you please, please, please make a new font and logo? He's like, why? I said, it's horrendous and you sell 50 to 80% less because of it. He's like, do you really think so? I said, yes. You're not the first to say it. I said, there you go. Do you want to meet the best font design in the world? He's like, yes. I said, come. So he thought I was crazy. I took him literally by the hand, took him one flight of stairs up and took him to Lee.
- [44:38]
A
I'm sure that was emasculating.
- [44:41]
B
And then I put him on the spot. I said, lee, do you know this watch? He's like, no. Said, what do you think? He says, I'll own the truth or be polite. I said, truth. It needs new fonts, logo. I said, more importantly, can you help? He said, yes. At matchmaking done. So hopefully there's a new logo coming, a new poor Lee.
- [45:05]
A
He's got so much work now. I mean, he was busy at the start of the fair, and now you're just dropping all this nonsense on top of him. But, you know, he is good and he's made his own bed, so hope he enjoys sleeping.
- [45:16]
B
But a shout out to our time time. One of the six co founders I spoke to. I'll be semi discreet. Agreed with me. The problem is there are too many captains on the ship. So there is no consensus on yes or no. But they had that feedback there as well. But you know what, don't be shallow and stupid like me. Go study these watches. Their watches are bonkers. They're so freaking cool.
- [45:41]
A
They are cool and they've got like, they've got a lot of creativity. Like you say, maybe too many cooks in the kitchen on that one, but the resulting product is great. Just, yeah, branding little off for both of us, I think. I always find myself excited by these names that are kind of clever but at the end of the day you don't want to be a gimmick. You don't want the first thing people to hear about you is kind of a play on words like that's not what a name of a watch brand should be fine for like a cool consumable item, you know, something a bit more throwaway, like a phone case or like, you know, a kitchen utensil. I don't know, you just want to get noticed amidst the noise. But with a watch brand, if you've got real desire and intention for it to be around for a long time, you need something a bit more timeless, I would say.
- [46:32]
B
Yeah. So this is a shout out. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Just a quick shout out. Pimp Piper from Christopher Van der Clao is a huge watch freak. We talk watches day and night. Not only Van der Clau, he showed that watch to me. The novelty they launched this year. I believe it's the ARC art to art 02 in titanium and because of him I went to go see and it's splendid. Yes. Rob, you're number one.
- [46:55]
A
One of your home, home grown heroes, Hultendrick. I have obviously seen these watches before in person, but I never had the chance to spend quite as much time with the watches and the team. And I just think that they have got to a level of refinement with their 3D printing process now that is is on a par with traditional CNC machining and well on a par in terms of finishing quality, but obviously way, way, way beyond it in terms of the geometry that's possible with their proprietary techniques. So I am really impressed with where they're going. I personally still think that like the porcelain dial style ones are my favorite from a dial perspective. But I do love the really organic case in the more extravagant models. So that's my number one one amazing.
- [47:45]
B
My Number one is your number three
- [47:49]
A
and, but we can't say anything about it.
- [47:52]
B
No, I, I, I recently bought the, the, the.
- [47:56]
A
Don't say anything.
- [47:57]
B
No, no, I won't. I, I bought the Art 01. So the first chapter and, and the NDA. I'm regret signing it because now I've ordered that watch as well. So that's the only thing I'm saying. So yeah, yeah. So that's, it's very easy. That's my number one.
- [48:17]
A
Okay. So big props to Alto. So we've had some crossovers at every fair so far. Let's see if that trend continues when we get to Chronopolis. I'll kick off with a three way tie in third place. And it's quick because again I can't actually say what we saw but there are great things coming from Serica Studio, Underdog and Atelier Wen. So new models which we can't communicate just yet. We but very, very, very, very, very, very much worthwhile looking out for. What's your number three from Chronopolis?
- [48:49]
B
You're right. And I've seen more embargoed watches. My number one is embargoed. But when this episode airs most probably it will be launched few days later. So make sure you follow those brands. The number two is embargoed as well. Although so just launched when this episode airs. Number three is the collab between Hajid and my fellow countryman Peter Kaiser from Studio Kaiser. Good times. I have the stickers on my laptop. The watch is awesome. It's a wink tribute to the Frank Muller Crazy Hours. And Peter Kaiser actually a very world renowned logo designer as well. Well so not so much a font designer like Lee, but he's a logo designer is he's basically an, an artist and a graphic designer. So that is hands down my number three.
- [49:48]
A
Okay, so that's your number three. So you've got two more in the chamber. Right. Okay. My second is just a brand in general because it's a brand that I think has impressed us all in the industry with how it's grown from a literal Kickstarter project. A Kickstarter project I actually backed to what it is now and that's the Italian brand Ecco Neutra. Never say it right, but brilliant stuff. The new ceramic chronograph they've got is just for me absolutely divine. The Rivnera and the second Rivnera, the smaller one, absolutely top draw. I think dress watches and rectangular watches are having a bit of a moment and we need more of Them in the industry. I don't get tired of having those options for my wrist. But, yeah, great stuff. You know, I was thinking, actually, I've packed three. I've only ever backed three watches on Kickstarter. And they've all gone on to become proper brands, which is, you know, nice for me, but maybe a coincidence or maybe, maybe they. They had that in their DNA from day one, the potential for success. And that's what I picked up on. But Laventure, Echo, Neutra and Veneziana Kill, actually, they were the three. Three brands I've backed on Kickstarter and all of them exist now as fully fledged independents. All right, I'm. I'm gonna hand over to you for your second choice.
- [51:11]
B
Same brand. They've shown me the embargo watch, which is their collab that launches on the day that we record this, a few days before this episode aired, is their collab with our dear friend. Second, like you, I love econotra. I had the honor very early on to make a collab with them for Ace Jewelers. I've bought the River Nara the moment it came out. Love it. Second rectangular watch I've ever bought. So love what these guys do. Great guys, Very fair price points. And it's amazing how Romareck Andre keeps on banging out these. These intellectual, fun collabs. And there was no better canvas than the Rivernera of Econocha to do this collab with. So I congratulate both our friends on both ends of this collab. What is your number one, Dear Rob? And I think I know the brand well.
- [52:13]
A
Do you? Because it's actually the Brandz. My favorite watch from Chronopolis is the collaboration between Baltic and Space One. Now, this was not expected. Perhaps we should get used to the unexpected from the. The guys behind Chronopolis and also the brands showing at Chronopolis because they share a certain spirit, which is what made the event such a wonderful, wonderful occasion and made the space so welcoming and nice to be in. This watch doesn't really look like a Baltic or a Space one. I mean, who's to say what a Space One looks like? It looks like whatever the hell Teo and. And Guillaume want it to look like. And I think that this flexibility appealed to Etienne from Baltic, and they've come together to create this jump hour. I don't know what to call it. It's. It's. It's like a sort of. Because this. The minute track is so large, it looks more like a regulator to me. Like in a strange way, but it has this lovely open dial with the option of two different surface finishes. Now this I did not know until I got to the event. I had seen the watch before, before we got to Chronopolis, because Guillaume showed me pictures of it while we were recording our episode episode for Chronopolis Radio. And I thought there was just one, like, you know, I think it's like grained plate decoration. But there's actually this. This second option which has like a hand applied cloudy finish. It's something like tremblage, but not. I'll try and find the name for the technique while you're giving us your number one. But just to note, they are. These models will be available for a limited period of time, just a small window of availability. When it's closed, it's done, it's gone. The one with the fancy finish that's hand applied is a thousand euros more than the other one. But since the other one's only. What is it, like €3,000 or something? It's still within. Within reach for many watch collectors. But that was absolutely brilliant, unexpected, gorgeous, and a piece for the ages, I think. What's your number one?
- [54:20]
B
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Same one is. I didn't join that recording, although I recorded with Baltic, so I knew something was coming. I didn't see anything. He didn't show me anything. I saw it first day. Chronopoulos at 8:00am the physical pieces. I wasn't sitting, so I didn't fall off my chair, but I almost fainted because I said to myself, space one is so creative. Baltic is so elegant. Would it be a good collab? Hands down. But how many cool stuff can Theo Frere come up with? Technically, they usually use an external designer. So I said, okay, maybe it's the Baltic flavor. Will it be an elegant watch? Freaking elegant watch. I don't want to say too much. It will, I believe it's on the 9th of May, they will open the. They'll announce it a few days later. They're opening the order window. They're making a brand version, which you refer to, and then they make a retailer's version that is indeed a thousand more. It's hand finished by the Ofres studios and the term you're looking for I don't remember by heart either. It's not tremblage, but something. It's eight. You found it. It's an Ofre signature finish. And what is it, Rob?
- [55:45]
A
Well, it's. I'm reading this from watchpro site.com and the source is sfwatchlover. And the post is actually put out there by Salman Piquet. Don't want to take credit for this because I didn't write it. This is. Some of this is straight from Hodinkee as well. Charbonnege is the technique. It's a traditional Parisian watchmaking finishing technique that involves using a block of charcoal and oil or sometimes 9 micron sandpaper for a similar effect effect to gently scrape the surface of typically in German silver, sometimes brass, also the main plate or bridges. A watchmaker manually cuts a point on a block of jewelers charcoal and applies it to the metal surface using small controlled circular or undulating movements. The gentle abrasion creates a unique soft and slightly irregular cloud like or meteor like matte texture that reflects light in a subtle, harmoniously diffused way. After the texture is achieved, a galvanic treatment may be applied to fix the texture on the surface of the mat. So that's it. Charbonnage is the technique. It's gorgeous. Yeah. I mean, I'm sort of stunned. It's poetic. I love it. So yeah, go for that one if you've got the. Got the spare cash.
- [56:51]
B
I can't add anything else to that. Going from Chronopolis. What are we left with scattered around brands or did you want to discuss a few watches that made an impression on you?
- [57:00]
A
Yeah, I want to discuss three. And I'll just. I'll just get through these quickly so we can kick over to you and then wrap up up. Toledano and Chan have got something on the horizon which is absolutely. Toledano and Chan, they are their own masters. And what Phil and Alfred are doing together is I think extremely welcome in the industry. They're both great guys. The watches are like nothing else. And it's easy to say that because it's true. And it's also nice to be able to say that and for it to be true. I was impressed by my visit to Urwerk. They finally released my perfect Urwerk. It's in a weirdly white ceramic case with the wandering hours complication for which a brand is perhaps best known. It fits my wrist perfectly. At last I have my Urva Grail. So that was lovely to see. And finally another brand that was showing in the old time just up the road from Urwerk, actually in. I think it's the Hamlet Hotel Moranmusi. A brand that I've loved since day one and I 13 years old. The products have been in existence for 11 years. They are famous for their no Ring Gasket technology. Now, there was a short Mauren Moussi episode that went out last Sunday featuring a discussion between Vuk and I because we spent quite some time with with the team looking at their new 41 millimeter titanium bracelet watch. And it's great. It makes that brand more accessible than ever before in terms of wearability. So if you don't know what Maura Musi all about, go check out come out.
- [58:31]
B
That episode you've recorded with Vuk was awesome. And few days after that episode aired, there was an announcement that an American venture capital group bought in tomorrow Musi and helping them with distribution in the us. So that's very interesting. So it seems they have a momentum. So good timing on that episode. Well done, Vuca. Rob, thank you for that. I've enjoyed that episode actually very much. I've learned a lot about the ceilings that I didn't know enough about. So I highly recommend our dear listeners to catch that episode for me. Two at ahci. Icebergs. The Tin King by Chaikin. Yeah, Constant. Constant Chai. Yeah, KC Bonkers. It's amazing what he keeps on creating, so it's a pity he doesn't speak English. But we've been in contact with their PR team and probably Ilya will come on the show. So it's something we're working on behind the scene, guys. And his apprentice, Anton Suanov with the Flamingo. I don't know if you caught that watch.
- [59:47]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [59:48]
B
Cavill.
- [59:49]
A
I'm a big fan of his actually. I didn't know he was actually Chekin's apprentice. I knew they were like somehow connected. But that's really interesting to see and really wonderful that that the ingenuity and sideways thinking of Constantine has been passed down to a new maker. So yeah, really, really exciting to see and a great couple of watches and all in all a great fair. Right? I mean we can't wait for the next time we're in Geneva together. That'll be Geneva watch days. But we also can't wait to see how Watches and Wonders time to watches Chronop and Beau Rivage develop in the future for Geneva Watch week held during April, of course every year it will be interesting to see if more brands try and join Chronopoulos. Of course they are at the moment limited by space and the vibe I think was was perfectly managed with the 20 brands that they had presented there. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the Beaurevard's renovations that have been underway for a couple of years now are finally finished in space opens up there once more. I am also curious to know if the rumors that Rolex might make a push to try and get their hands on Villa Sara San to stop time to watch us from displaying so close to Plexpo are true. I don't think so. I think it's probably just hearsay. But it's interesting to countenance what would happen if they did make a power play like that. We'll see some musical chairs over the next year for sure. I think Dominic Renault will be somewhere else. Probably watches and wonders. Or maybe more like our good friend Sylvain who we haven't mentioned despite visiting him in the old town at the gallery and then going for dinner with him on Saturday night has done. And that is to rent their own private space which I think would suit a brand like Renault because I think people would travel for Renault and I think a lot of people actually travel to Villa Saracen just to see him and the rest of the brands there were maybe a bonus to those really high rolling collectors that just want to get their hands on that magnificent piece from the master himself. Alon, thank you for taking the time to record this episode. I'm glad we finally got it done down on tape because it's already been two weeks since the fair ended. I'm sure the listeners are keen to hear what we thought about the fair. If you have any questions about it, of course, then get in touch via the usual channels. You can get to us on WhatsApp in the WhatsApp network. If you want to be a member of that group, then just hit us up on Instagram herealtime show or contact us via the official website contact form@www.therealtime show. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.