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- [00:00]
Rob Nudds
Hi and hello watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds and my co host, the friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alain Ben Joseph, calling in all the way from Amsterdam to me in Geneva where I've just witnessed the results of the GPHG 2024 ALON. I assume that you've seen them come in on your end. What do you think initially? What your first thoughts?
- [00:22]
Alain Ben Joseph
I was excited to see the results. Unfortunately I couldn't stream it in real time, but I was digesting all the social media post. My ex colleague and my buddy Dimmer works for Van Cleef and Arpel. So he was on a high horse that they won three prizes. So that's the first thing I saw. At first he was bragging that they were the only one and then he stood corrected because in the Red Bar Crew Amsterdam, we corrected him that AP did that already. But that was amazing. Obviously. I want to give a big shout out to our buddy Sylvain Berneron. We've predicted it from day one when we saw the war. So I'm very happy that that happened because anything can happen at the Oscars of the watchmaking industry. But hey, you are there in the aftermath. You're in Geneva. You are barely alive. How was it? Walk us through the moment you walked onto the red carpet, please.
- [01:16]
Rob Nudds
Okay, so this is the first time that I've ever been to the GPHG Awards and I knew from the invitation that it was held in the Teatre de la Man. I didn't know where that was. It's actually just underneath Fairmont Hotel. So I got a taxi to the event and got out, walked in, asked someone on the desk where the theater was because my Google was saying, oh, you're standing on top of it. And they said, I'll go out the front door and then go down the stairs. It was packed. It is absolutely rammed. There was 1,480 people in that auditorium and that is probably about 20, 30% of the entire watch industry in Geneva. And it featured all of the players, all the major characters. You couldn't turn one way or another without seeing another luminary. There was Lauren Ferrier, Jean Christophe Babam, Nick folks, of course, who's very much involved in the organization of the event on the red carpet where co hosts and everybody. It was incredible. Guido Torini, also like giving a speech. Christophe Granger, hair. Everyone you could imagine was there. It was unreal. I felt very privileged. Luckily enough, I knew enough people to not feel totally out of place. But wow, what an event and a great setting. We took our seats. Obviously we're in the cheap seats because we're not, you know, we're not in the running to win a prize but took a seat. Would you believe that Lydia Winters was came and sat next to us that was like just completely by coincidence. So that the TRTS network was in full flow. That's Lydia from this Watch Life. If you don't listen to this Watch Life podcast, go and check that out as well. And she was wearing on her wrist. Would you believe in Otsuka low tech which is a watch we'll talk about more momentarily. She was very thrilled with the result of a category in which he was nominated obviously. Anyway, the event gets underway. We've got some nice little music. It's hosted this year by a French actress. First time she's hosted it. Previous years it's been hosted by a comedian who I believe is having some, some reputational issues at the moment, should we say. So he's been brushed aside and she's been brought in. She did not perform flawlessly. Couple of slip ups. In fact on two occasions she announced the winner when she was supposed to be announcing the person who was going to be announcing the winner. So that was awkward and that did disrupt the flow a little bit. She interjected with quite a lot of banter that was maybe a bit heavy handed. Made too much of a focus on herself rather than the event or the people winning. But otherwise she did an okay job. The whole thing was flawlessly executed apart from those faux pas and very, very, very enjoyable. I was surprised wasn't the least bit boring. There was no beer or wine before we got underway so everyone was clear headed and very focused on the proceedings. And well those proceedings threw up quite some surprises. And now we're going to go through the list not in the order of the announcements on the night because that was shuffled from the order in which the categories are arranged online. We're going to go through them in the order the categories are arranged online so it match with our earlier episodes. So if you've not listened to that, go back and listen to that and listen to our predictions because you're gonna have a good laugh at our expense. And then go to GPHG.org and check out the 2024 edition nominated timepieces so you can follow along with our discussion. Category number one, the ladies category. Alon. What did you go for? Was it Tutti Frutti or is my mind deceiving me?
- [04:38]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, I went for Tutti Frutti. This came before I listened if you hear the real time show for the first time or you're not aware with the game. So Rob and I usually play the game what we would pick and often it's very subjective and it's something that we like and, and, and in some categories we'll say this will obviously not win. I did choose the Tutti Frutti. You chose the Hermes.
- [05:04]
Rob Nudds
I did.
- [05:04]
Alain Ben Joseph
We kind of knew that both wouldn't win. Van Clef and Al won with the lady A. Rightfully so. I think so. So congratulations vca.
- [05:19]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I have no qualms with this whatsoever. I actually think there were maybe three potential valid winners in this category and I think that they were the Van Cleef, which to be honest, in my opinion is the best of the watches. The Arnold and Son's got a lot of work and I know that they've found favor with these styles of I think marquetry dials one would say before. So that would have been a legitimate choice I think. And the Hermes for me would have been a very legitimate choice because it did something different in the cat. Agree. The other three, especially the Parmigiani and the Chopard, although probably the two watches I'd be most likely to wear myself, just diamond studded versions of existing watches and the Faberge, although nicely set, a nicely decorated dial. Yeah. Next to the Van Cleef it's is a miles, miles and miles of miles behind.
- [06:02]
Alain Ben Joseph
And I wonder how much the jury deliberates about the fact of the. The the awards in the year. So if they knew up front that Van Cleef and Arpel would have gotten three and if that's the case, I would have given it to Arnold and the son if I was a jury member. But I have a feeling they isolate each category and whatever the winner is, is the winner. And if one gets a lot, good for them. What do you think?
- [06:28]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I think it's absolutely the case. I think that this idea of like passing out votes to make it fairer or more balanced is a nonsense and it's corrupt. If a brand produces the best watch in 10 categories, it should win 10 awards. I have no issue with that whatsoever. And Van Cleef really deserve this. I mean the stupid thing is because when we play the game against each other, we're trying to guess each other's picks. But it's an exercise in friendship more than it is an exercise in who's going to win this event for real on the night. Van Cleef is so far ahead of other brands in this category. Every so often, a brand will throw up a model that stands shoulder to shoulder with the Van Cleef, but they're one offs, really for other brands. Van Cleef does this time and time and time again. And when you look at the other models that won't, you'll see that they're basically the same watch with just three different dial animations and movements. Okay. There's a lot of technical differences, but it's the same case pretty much like three times. And that's incredible.
- [07:24]
Alain Ben Joseph
That's incredible. And it reminds me of Rodolphe, who made amazing watches for Longines in that vibe with these floating lugs and Case of Fiction where there's a little gap in the middle. So you need special cut leather straps using that as a segue. Rob, let's go to the complication version of the ladies category again. Van Cleef and Arpel this time. The Lady Arpel Brise de Et. I did pick that one. Do you think this was a rightful pick by the jury?
- [07:58]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I mean, I picked the Anderson Jane F. Because I love that watch and I'm a bit biased. I always give Anderson a lot of love, although it's not a brand that I'm hugely close to personally. I've worked with him a couple of times with this serene scene. For me, the beautiful, sensitive colorway was gorgeous. However, let's be frank, the Van Cleef is the best watch in this category. And to be fair, I didn't realize how good this watch was until the presentation on the night. So before the announcement is made of which watches won which category, there's a little video played of the different pieces. And then when the watch is announced, there's a little more video played of the piece that won. And in those two videos, I got to see this dial in action for the first time. And I was like, stunned how beautiful this is, how flawless the execution is, how much I would wear this watch now. You know, I like to play around with the gender expectations with my Bulgari Serpenti and diamond studded hublots and whatnot. But this one, this would be without a doubt the most unabashedly feminine watch that I'd ever strapped on my wrist. But I would gladly strap it on because it is a piece of art. 100% deserve to win the best of the three Van Cleefs that won tonight, in my opinion, and a stunner I would happily be an ambassador for till the day I die.
- [09:13]
Alain Ben Joseph
Well said. And now, very interesting, in my humble opinion, Time Only category, we have six watches, of which, technically four have won. But the winner of the category, which both of us voted for, Bernaron, but we had a feeling he could either win the Agil d'or. Yeah, so that's interesting, because in this competition, you can win both, can't you, Rob?
- [09:42]
Rob Nudds
Well, it has happened, but not for an awfully long time. In fact, not since the very first year of the GPHG back in 2001. And in that year, Vacheron Constantin's Lady Killer, aptly named, won both the Jewelry Watch Prize and the Aguildor Grand Prix for the best watch of a whole event. But thereafter, every Aguilera Grand Prix winner won only that award. So for me, that's pretty clear that they no longer allow the jewel awarding to a category winner. And the overall, which I find it a bit odd, I think that it kind of makes sense for a category winner to also be anointed the Best of the Fair, rather than one category clearly having to acknowledge, even though they won, they're really at least second best. And this is what we're discussing right now with the Time Only category, because even though MOA walked away with that award, the Lederer ended up winning the GR prize. We'll talk about the Burner on later on. And Chopard also won a prize, the Eco Innovation Prize, which is a new special award established this year. So it's a very strange thing because there are 15 categories, there are six watches in each category. In addition to these 15 categories, there's another five or six prizes that are awarded to either watches or individuals for, like, best, being the best student, or being lifetime achievement Award or whatever as well. So if a watch doesn't win its category, it isn't necessarily out of the running to win something at some point throughout the night, which is a bit silly in some ways, when a watch wins the Golden Hand, let's say, it should automatically win whatever category it's in because it's the best watch.
- [11:33]
Alain Ben Joseph
Good question. Yeah, it's a good question. So this is something that we should do a deep dive on at our end. Let's run down quickly. So Bernaron was competing in the Time only together with Bernard Leather Chopard, which had different entries in this year's award ceremony. And in this category, it's the Luc Qualite Fleurier Czapek with the Gore, though Moser, who won this category with the Streamline in small seconds, Blue Enamel, which took me by surprise. And the last one is the Parmigiani Fleurier with the no date Tonda PF Micro Rotor. So I voted for Berneron and said that although Lederer also is a very high contender for me, I hope to go the O would have won if there was no Berneron. So I did not expect Moser. You.
- [12:26]
Rob Nudds
Moser was my second choice, clearly.
- [12:28]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, because it brought you to tears.
- [12:29]
Rob Nudds
This is the watch. It brought me to tears. I believe it's the best Moser ever made and I stand by that. I think it's a perfect execution, the streamliner. And you know, the funny thing is, as we were at the event and the results were rolling in, it started to feel a bit like a shock, like the whole evening was spun on its head. Because the first award, which is actually the last one we're going to discuss through everyone for such a loop, it felt like more controversial at the time than it looks now. When you look back on the winners, I think when you look back on the winners now, I think that the Academy did a wonderful job here of balancing because as you said, four watches of the six in this category went home with awards and they all went home with the right awards and they all deserved to be nominated, at least to receive award, shall I say? So it all came together in the end and this was one of the essential pieces of that puzz puzzle because I think that most deserved this, given that Berneron won something else later on, something far more prestigious. We'll get to that in a moment. Next up, let's talk about the men's category. Now this is a stupid category because, I mean, these watches are all over the map. A men's category. I mean, it's too broad. Any of these watches could have been plucked and dropped into another category and none of them the same one. So Bulgari, Octo, Finissima, Ultra Platinum Garrick S3 Mark 2 Grand Seiko, manual winding, high beat 36, 000. Beautifully named watch. Nice one, Japan Hajime is Tsunami Art deco and then Parmesan flurry Toric Petite Second Platinum Platinum V20. I reversed catchy names alon I voted.
- [14:08]
Alain Ben Joseph
For the Garrick, although I was very intrigued by the Voody linen. I believe you voted a lot of Parmigiani, but I don't believe in this category.
- [14:15]
Rob Nudds
This was the one Parmigiani I did vote for this year.
- [14:18]
Alain Ben Joseph
Oh, you did? Okay, because I thought this was the exception that you don't like skeletonized watches, but you went for the Voutilane. Okay, so I did not think the Parmigiani would have won because if you need to create predictions based on historical results, you'll see that often the jury are watch geeks and they'll go for the more complicated things and they like metier diarrhea. So if this was a stock market, then we would have made a lot of money. But unfortunately there is no money to be made. But a lot of fun. So that's also good. Are you happy with the Vutelainen Award?
- [14:55]
Rob Nudds
Well, yeah. How can you not be happy with the Vitaline in the world? I mean, Kari deserves whatever Kari gets. He is a modern master, an icon. He could retire tomorrow and his name would echo down the ages, generations after he passed. It's a beautiful watch. It's great. Is it the best thing he's ever done? It's not my favorite thing he's ever done, but it's a virtual line and like, what can one say? My personal favorite to wear would be the turic. I thought the turic was having a moment. I thought it was its year. I thought it deserved some kind of credit in this award ceremony, but it wasn't to be. And the winner is more than worthy. It's almost a tradition that Vitaline and all Recep wins this category. So yeah, they've been trading blows for years. Recep Rachepi not in contest this year. Vutilainen stepped in and just like Messi vs. Ronaldo in Ballon d'or, once again walks home victorious. Something to do with being a short master, obviously. Okay, men's complication, if I may, Rob, just quickly.
- [15:55]
Alain Ben Joseph
Interesting what you said about Kari. I totally agree. It's. He's not even a modern master. He's been going at it quite some time, I believe more than three decades. So he's already a vintage master already. Now what Sully struck me. He is the master of dials. He loves guillos, he buys all the machines that he can find. So it's. Yeah, it's actually interesting that he went for a watch without a dial. So it's a nice contradiction within the brand. So I just had to get that off my chest. Dear listeners, if you are not that familiar with Voodilainen, Google it a bit because he is not a watch snob. He'll work with, let's say, Louis Erard and Schwarz Etienne and he makes amazing dials, also for lower price points. Okay, I'll shut up. Men's complication. Rob, I think you've won a ding, ding, ding point in this one because we had the Altia with the Purity Center Tourbillon. The Burn with the Mecca again, Chopard this time with Luc. Strike one. Debatun DB with a cool name, kind of a grand complication. The Frank Miller with the Long Island Evolution Master jumper. And last but not least, the Kazuo Maeda with the Earl Universelle. Well, I know you don't have much to add, Right? Right.
- [17:23]
Rob Nudds
For winner 100%. We both. You picked it as well, didn't you?
- [17:29]
Alain Ben Joseph
I didn't in the end, I believe.
- [17:33]
Rob Nudds
Did you not?
- [17:34]
Alain Ben Joseph
No, I think I went for the Altia. Look how bad my memory is. We recorded this less than a week ago.
- [17:40]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, no, I wouldn't have been able to tell you. Quick update before we just give Debitune his flowers. I ran into John Byrne at the opening event and he, as many of you may know, he suffered quite a serious motorcycle accident over the summer. All we knew about it was that Bern were forced to withdraw from Geneva watch days. He was out riding a motorbike, I believe, for the first time and there was a malfunction with the bike. He came off at a serious head injury and was in hospital in Paris. Luckily, one of only eight machines that exists in the world that were capable of performing the operation necessary to save his life was present. He was saved and he is fine. He is back to full health. He's got a gnarly scar on the left side of his head, but it's mostly behind his hair. You can't see a damn thing. But it's cool. He's fine, he's chatting, he's vibrant, he's lively. No effect to his personality. No negative ones. Anyway. He was actually very chipper. Happiest I've ever seen him. And he's well. So for people that care about this extended watchmaking family of ours, and for anyone that knows John, it was a huge relief to see him. And I just thought I'd deliver that bit of news because although Debitune obviously deserves a lot of credit for this category, the best, the best news of a night of the watchers featured here was that he was there. He's back on his feet and he was very, well.
- [19:02]
Alain Ben Joseph
So happy to hear because both his wife and him are amazing people indeed, vibrant and jolly and they radiate positivity into the watchmaking industry and they want to push the boundaries and do cool stuff. So we did miss them in August in Geneva. So happy to hear and looking forward to see them again during both watches and wonders and Geneva watches 25.
- [19:25]
Rob Nudds
I saw Claire, his wife, across the room, first, and I made a beeline for her because I was like, I want to know if John's okay. I didn't see him. And it was a perfect cinematic reveal because he was sort of like, behind me, and she. I was like, how is he? And she looked. She looked happy and well. So I was like, you know, had a good feeling. And then she just sort of, like, pointed. And then there he was.
- [19:44]
Alain Ben Joseph
You know why you missed him? Because you didn't get your beers and wines before the show, so you weren't that focused.
- [19:51]
Rob Nudds
Maybe that has something to do with it. Yeah. John can put him away as well. So we've had some good nights together.
- [19:57]
Alain Ben Joseph
So for our dear listeners, most people need caffeine. Rob needs alcohol to function properly.
- [20:04]
Rob Nudds
That's not true. You're making me sound much worse than I am. How dare you besmirch my good name. And the good name of De Betoon was far from besmirched. It was duly honored. This was, in my opinion, a worthy winner of this category. A lovely watch and very much on brand for De Bethune. And, yeah, I don't have much more to say about this one. I think that it was a fair one. A fair, fair result.
- [20:26]
Alain Ben Joseph
I do want to give another shout out to Kazuo Maeda. I hope if he speaks English, I want him on the show because I love the fact that he didn't put his name on the dial. And the font of the city discs on the bezel are delicious. And I actually want to have a philosophical discussion with Lee about this.
- [20:47]
Rob Nudds
Okay.
- [20:48]
Alain Ben Joseph
Fonts. And you haven't heard the episode on TRTS with Lee. I unfortunately had to miss that, but listened from beginning to end. That Rob did an interview with him was a big, deep dive on fonts. It was amazing. And pay attention to the cities he chose on the bezel. I'm not going to reveal them. Very interesting if you're into world timers.
- [21:10]
Rob Nudds
Oh, yeah, good point. It's an interesting one, this. It caused a lot of discussion, actually, this particular watch, because it's very clean, very pristine. You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of the Bradley Watch for the Blind. It has a very similar kind of like, size distribution of dial elements.
- [21:29]
Alain Ben Joseph
Very interesting. And obviously I see a big nod to the old Pateks.
- [21:34]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. Also, yeah, a lovely sized crown is what I've got to say. I'm a big fan of a big crown. Interesting one.
- [21:40]
Alain Ben Joseph
Big crown, slim lugs. The only critique I have, obviously, is there is A dissonance in design. Everything is art decoish, font wise. And then he opted for very 70s style of Roman numerals. Big.
- [21:58]
Rob Nudds
No, no for me. Yeah. The Lee that Alan is referring to there is Lee Yuen Repati who is fierce head designer. We had an interview with him recently and he was at the event as well, looking fine as always. And I really advocate people listen to that because it was one of the most fascinating deep dives into the design of fonts that I've ever heard and I was privileged to be hearing it from the horse's mout. Moving on to the iconic collection. This. This is the watch that probably got the biggest cheer on the night. To be fair. The winner of this category, it was competed By Breitling Navitimer B12 Chronograph 41 Cosmonaut Hublot Classic Fusion Original Yellow Gold 29 millimeters. The IWC chaffers and big pilots watch 43 Tourbillon Marcus Beulah, the Louis Vuitton Tambour, the Piaget Piaget Polo 79 and the Urvirk UR102 Reloaded. Now this may come as no surprise. The winner was the Piaget and I think by the sands of the room, it probably won at a canter. I was overjoyed. I gave a big whoop when this was announced because I love this watch.
- [23:05]
Alain Ben Joseph
So do I. I did not vote for it. Pure to my dedication to Urewerg, but rightfully so. And if the Uweg wasn't there, I would have chosen the Piaget. So we don't need to spend too much time on it. I. Because I believe the initial watch was a limited or limited production. Is it still in production?
- [23:25]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, good question. I'm not sure if it is. I think it was limited and the price was very high, if I remember.
- [23:32]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, 80k or something.
- [23:34]
Rob Nudds
Something around those lines. Yeah. Was it even. Was it that much?
- [23:37]
Alain Ben Joseph
God, yeah, it was. And imagine a TRTS collab. Full titanium.
- [23:43]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I'd love to do a full titanium quartz powered one. It actually was brought up in. In the exception speech, like the consideration of whether or not it should have been quartz. Very interesting. It is a watch that I think because of its striking design could carry that. It's. It's a watch that shouldn't exist when you look at how the case is put together. And if you want to see this, go to the Piaget website, go to the page about the Polo 79. There's a great little video, just shows how many components there are, how it's almost like it's how badly designed it is in a way. Like it's a nightmare. Like I don't even know how this thing is water resistant at all. The case walls are like paper thin. It's just stunning. It's bold, it's ambitious. It's like nothing else. It's what we want for watches and it's great to have a modern iteration of this brilliant design back in play. And hopefully they'll make more iterations of it so more people can get their hands on them. Now. Moving on, actually, before we move on, the Iconic collection for me was the best lineup of six watches. I thought that every single piece in this collection deserved to be there. I don't think the Breitling was the perfect example of an avitimer, but the Navitimer is Breitling.
- [24:52]
Alain Ben Joseph
Well, a cosmonaut is Iconic. The only thing, one I wasn't too keen on was the Louis Vuitton Tambo. So I respectfully disagree with you. The best category was obviously the challenge category and that's the last one. So let's get are speed up your favorite complication.
- [25:11]
Rob Nudds
I'll stop it.
- [25:12]
Alain Ben Joseph
I can't make that joke anymore because it's kind of getting into your bloodstream. Tourbillons Chopin Luc 1860 flying tourbillon. Daniel Roth. The Tourbillon subscription Moser again with the streamliner Tourbillon skeleton. Remy Coles Tourbillon Atelier. And a little spoiler. He did get an award, but not in this category. Sartori Bilar, which I believe both of us voted for. Tuti Leinen again with the tourbillon 20th anniversary. So I said three decades for Kari. Kari obviously works longer, but his independent brand that has his name on it is only two decades young. So in that sense you're right, Rob. So the winner is the Daniel Roth. What do you think, Rob?
- [25:59]
Rob Nudds
Well, I think we kind of saw this result coming from a mile off. I mean Daniel Roth has been in the news. Elvia Matrix, extremely proud of its renaissance. It is, it is an iconic watch itself. I don't feel in any way controversial in making that statement. It's got a case shape like few other watches and this design language is exactly what a brand should be going for. You know what it is immediately, it wasn't my favorite iteration of the Daniel Roth concept, but I think it's a worthy winner. And yeah, the Satori Billard is one that we both picked because it's just a gorgeous looking watch. But in terms of prestige and execution, that Daniel Roth is A brilliant balance and I think a rightful winner.
- [26:43]
Alain Ben Joseph
I want to do a little intermetal game. What do you think? Jean Arnault, which I believe is brilliant and the right guy in the right position. It's interesting actually that yesterday his brother in New York, Alexandre, announced he's going to the spirits division of lvma. So after Rimowa, Tiffany and company, he's going from New York back to France. So that's interesting. He's not going into the watch industry, which I kind of expected. Jean is the youngest one and he is doing an amazing job. What do you, Rob, think is going to be the next Daniel Welterwatch? Are they going to do another tribute piece or do you think he's going to push the envelope and put a 21st century Daniel Rothwatch on the map?
- [27:32]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I can only speculate, but I think that if I were relaunching a brand like this, I would come with something striking of this nature. But then the next piece I would release would be much simpler. It would probably be time only to be honest, with a slightly more modern design, maybe hour minute dial at 12 and then just a sub seconds at 6. Just to sort of create a more accessible entry point, something a bit more universal that the brand can then build a complicated collection around. I would, I would like to see that. Will it happen? Maybe some Metia da Honda dial, you know, maybe an enamel dial or something along those lines, but something clean and clear that's focused on the case shape and establishing a core collection that the brands will use as a springboard for future things. What do you think?
- [28:24]
Alain Ben Joseph
So I've been thinking a lot about this and last week I've been thinking about. Because we've been flooded also with Universal Geneve speculations. Is it evident that they're going to do a pole router? Most probably. Are they going to bring back the compacts, versions, bicompacts, tricompacts, etc. Most probably. Would I, if I have owned universities? Hell yes. But the question is, are we. Is the lemon squeezed already dry with vintage inspired watches? And one brand that I think does it best is Zenith. They have a beautiful balance between their heritage and the future. So modernity. And again, if I had Daniel Roth in my portfolio, of course I would have bring back the success hits, right? So they hit records, but at a certain point how much can you ride that bandwagon? So I would have created a duality in my brand and I hope Universal Geneva under the helm of George Kern does that as well.
- [29:39]
Rob Nudds
Personally, I can't wait to see a new pole router. We saw some pretty convincing leaks this morning on the TRTS network of a new lineup of Polar. And by the looks of things, if this leak is to be believed and it does look pretty genuine, we're not going to see any changes at all to the Polar. We're just going to see it executed with modern machining techniques and it looks divine. It is what I want from the brand. I don't need them to mess around of it too much. We've all been baying for the return of Universal Geneva for years. And it looks like Kern is, you know, got it by the scruff of the neck and just done the. The sensible thing and brought us what everyone really wants to see. And I think it'll be a modern classic and I think it'll sell. Price point will be interesting. From what I understand from behind the scenes, they're hoping to position it as a direct competitor to jlc. So we should expect that these pieces will be a tick higher in price point than Breitling. You know, with. I'm guessing they're going to be in the mid teens or even maybe a little higher. So that might disappoint some people that would like a pole router to be 5k. Wouldn't we all like a Polar to be 5k? I can't wait to see it. I can't wait for the reveal and the confirmation or otherwise of the leak we've seen. And let's hope that they use that as we've suggested Roth might as a springboard to greater things. So moving on to the calendar and astronomy category. This was contested by Anton Sehanov with the Chronotope, Frederic Constant with the Slimline Perpetual Calendar Manufacture designed by Peter Speak, H. Moser and C. Endeavor Chinese Calendar. The IWC Chaffers and Portuguese are Eternal calendar for Lahon Ferre Classic Moon Silver and the Parmigiani Fleurier Tonda PF Hijiri Perpetual Calendar. Who won Alon?
- [31:26]
Alain Ben Joseph
Well, again, the IWC Ding ding, ding ding. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Won the Aguildo. So it seems that they did those first and then if you get picked, you're disqualified in the subcategory. That's my gut feeling.
- [31:44]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [31:44]
Alain Ben Joseph
So it's hands down that IDC should have won this category. They didn't. So it went to Laurent Fourier with the classic Moon Silver. Rightfully so. Yeah. Did it surprise me? Yes. You?
- [31:58]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. I mean, to be fair, this one kind of slipped under the radar for us because we were so laser Focused on the IWC because we believed it was the runaway favorite for this category. And I suppose we were proven right in a sense. It did walk away with the top prize, which was deserved. I think it's, it's interesting because obviously we had Bernaron in our minds for that piece. And we'll talk about what Sylvan won later on. But in light of how everything panned out, like I said earlier on, like when you look at the winners now in the cold light a day, it was a brilliantly managed event. And the long Ferrier. Yeah, no, we weren't talking about it, were we? We looked at the Anton, we looked at the Freddie C. We dismissed the Moses and the Parmigiani. We love the Parmigiani, but it's, it's been entered before, I think with a red dial last year or something, so probably not going to win. And Ferrier is one of those guys like Vuitton who basically wins an awards every year and it's, it's a good thing to pay lip service to one of the. The modern greats. So yeah, fair enough. Beautiful watch. Brilliantly executed and graciously received as ever from the great man himself. Mechanical exception category. Now this was an interesting one. We had the Bove 1822 Recital 28 Prowess 1, the Bulgari Octo Finissimo Ultra Cosc the Hermes Assault du Atelier, the MB&F HM 11 Architect, the Piaggio Altiplano Ultimate Concept Tourbillon and the Ulis Nadan Freak s Nomad, which we both picked unsurprisingly as big fans of Elise and advocates for the Freak as one of the most significant pivotal watches in the history of watchmaking. Really, in my opinion, was the first great modern timepiece that kicked off this exploration of haute olagerie that we now have enjoyed for the last 20 years or so. But the winner of this category. Do you want to announce it? Because I can barely bring myself to say it.
- [33:56]
Alain Ben Joseph
Well, I really think that they deserve it. I'm actually happy, you know. Why?
- [34:02]
Rob Nudds
No idea.
- [34:03]
Alain Ben Joseph
It's the only one that's independent in this category of six. Well, that's not true. Sorry, I stand correct. MBNF is independent. Ulysse Nardin thinks they're independent, but it's a group of two brands.
- [34:17]
Rob Nudds
They're pretty independent really though, aren't they? Come on.
- [34:20]
Alain Ben Joseph
Oh yeah, okay, let's have a discussion about that. But on another time, maybe in a Q A episode. But, but you know what? The underdog here is Bove and I guess the. That gets the least love from collectors or the collectors I know is Beauvais 1822. So the recital 28. Prowess won. Has won. And congratulations, Beau, because I am happy for you. And I've said I would have considered it just. Just a crown. I mean, it's. It's a banger.
- [34:51]
Rob Nudds
It drew an audible gasp in the room when this piece was announced as the winner. I think many people, rightly or wrongly, because, let's face it, it's an incredible timepiece. Like, it's a brilliant machine. But I think most people probably had this in sixth position in terms of likely winners. I think I did. Just in terms of the brands it's going up against.
- [35:11]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah. I had Piaget in six.
- [35:14]
Rob Nudds
Okay.
- [35:15]
Alain Ben Joseph
We both voted Ulis none. And Free Case, I believe, because we simply love the Freak. But do we actually think that Ulysse would have won? I didn't. I think the Hermes was a real candidate because it's a stunning miniature peter with a 3D tourbillon.
- [35:32]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. And Hermes gets a lot of love. Hermes won a couple of awards last year, and so I kind of expected this to be a possibility for them, but for me, I think the Freak should have won. I just. I just do.
- [35:42]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, but it's not that new, is it?
- [35:44]
Rob Nudds
Well, it's not that new.
- [35:45]
Alain Ben Joseph
The Nomad S is a new case, but the Caliber is not new. You. And I think the Bove is a new caliber.
- [35:51]
Rob Nudds
Okay, fine. If that's all it needs, then fine. But what about the MB and F?
- [35:56]
Alain Ben Joseph
Oh, yeah. I think that they were rather bummed out, but I believe the jury said MBNF has gotten so much awards, they can miss one.
- [36:04]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. Okay, well, this was one of the categories where, like, the. The people presenting the award very much labored the point that the jury was impartial. And then Bove wins, and everyone's like, okay, maybe.
- [36:16]
Alain Ben Joseph
Maybe they did Russian roulette.
- [36:18]
Rob Nudds
I don't know. I mean, the way it's supposed to work is you've got the jury members voting, like, in private. Then they're not like, you know, they would discuss their choices beforehand, but then they would vote in private. And it just. I don't know, maybe it was really close. Maybe there was, like, five votes for every model in this collection and. Or four votes for every model in the collection. Bove won by a couple, you know, so, I don't know. Fair play. Big brands, big pieces, and, like you say, independent. Very much supported by our good friends at 289 Consulting. So, yeah, congrats to the team over there for doing another stand up job. But yeah, this one, this one shocked me. I'm not gonna lie. It did shock me. I thought that Ulise would have taken it or MB and F next. Hermes third, I think then I would have had Piaget and Bulgari like knocking around fourth and fifth. I don't really care for either. But they're both known for exceptional thinness and the Bove. I just. I just don't think it's very attractive. It's impressive. I just don't like it. But fair play.
- [37:13]
Alain Ben Joseph
It also reminds me a bit of Jacob and company. Could have been a Jacob Co watch.
- [37:17]
Rob Nudds
It could, it could. Or Harry Winston. It's got some sort of like Harry Winston vibes, like somehow. All right, moving on to the chronograph. My favorite complication. Not really my favorite category of watches this year to be fair though, we had the Anglis Instrument de Vitesse, the Louis vuitton Richard Brucepi LVR01 chronograph as Donna re massive Lab Chronograph Monopossoire Silvan Pinot and Massinal Lab Parmigiani Fleurier Toric Split Seconds Chronograph, the Tagoyo Monaco Split Seconds Chronograph and the Zenith Chronomaster Original Triple Calendar. So Massena Lab won this. William, Massina and Sylvampino accepted the awards together. It was quite an amusing acceptance speech. Sylvan's a great character and always good value for a laugh or two. I think it probably deserved it. Did it not?
- [38:01]
Alain Ben Joseph
William is also a great character. Super sarcastic and dry humor. I love the guy. I am super happy for both of them because they are the smallest of the six. They teamed up. So it's the. Is the. Well, there are two that are collabs. Von is a giant and Rexeppy is a legend. I thought they would win, honestly. So I'm a bit surprised. There are three LVMH watches in here. Angulus is a citizen group, Parmigian is independent. I'm happy. Happy that the smallest in turnover and volume of production won so rightfully so. Yeah. And I'm happy for the guys because I love both of them.
- [38:43]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, yeah. They deserved it, I think. Fair enough. I mean, I went for the Zenith. I can't remember what you picked.
- [38:50]
Alain Ben Joseph
I threw a hardcore curveball at you. The Parmigiani Toric Split seconds.
- [38:55]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, That's a fit watch though. That is nice. I still prefer the time, only Taric, but that's a Lovely piece. Right onto the sports car. Agree. This one also caused a bit of a shock on the night, and we'll address that in a moment. First watch up for consideration was the IWC Schafferizen. Oh, my God. The name of this watch was enough to disqualify it.
- [39:13]
Alain Ben Joseph
Just skip it.
- [39:14]
Rob Nudds
Just skip it. It's like three rightfully so.
- [39:17]
Alain Ben Joseph
They didn't win.
- [39:18]
Rob Nudds
Okay. The Ming 37.09 Blue Fin Parmigiani Flier. Tonda PF Sport Chronograph, which was my pick for that gorgeous colorway. The Singer reimagined dive track. The Tudor Pelagos FXD Chrono Cycling edition and Zenith Defy Extreme Diver. Tell us more about this category.
- [39:37]
Alain Ben Joseph
Alan, we got thrown off. We both didn't guess each other's pick. There are dive watches in here, and we've been saying that several times that we believe there should have been a separate dive collection there. Three chronographs in here. I voted for the singer. I. You actually picked the mink, I think. No, sorry. Pardon me. Jenny Floyd, you took the. Because of your super color powers. You're like a superhero that sees color. You're the Hour King. I call for now. I'm going to call you the Houra King with a porn star mustache.
- [40:15]
Rob Nudds
Oh, wow. That's a full title. Sounds like a serial killer. Yeah.
- [40:18]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah. So this is all over the place. It's a mishmash. And we've said that Tudor always wins. It's actually interesting. This is the first year they did not win. Usually they win the petite agil category. They entered also with a chronograph here. So the fxd, I am not surprised because I think rightfully so, that Ming has won the award in the sports category. It's interesting because I believe this is their first real sports watch. And, well, I love Ming as a person. I love the brand. I love the people behind the brand. So I am super happy for them. It's amazing what Singer has done. I'm actually a bit surprised that they did not win.
- [41:08]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. I hate to correct you here, but there's four chronographs, and the one you neglected was sing it because obviously it doesn't have sub dials. But it is a chronograph quite remarkably so. Actually, there's a chronograph that tells you when you're allowed to dive again or when you're allowed to fly after diving and when you should chill before and after diving, I think. So it's a. It's a really Clever piece. We love Marco Boracino. He's been on the show. He's a good friend. And I really think it should have won. I think it's. It's got GPHG written all over. The ring is a great piece. But these two watches don't seem like they should be in the same category. Occasionally that happens when you've got a category as broad as sport. And in fairness, even if we had the dive category, they'd both be in there because they're two of the three divers in this collection. But it feels like the singer that might have done better, it might have had a better chance of winning something like the Audacity Prize if that didn't go elsewhere. And we'll discuss that momentarily. But Ming was a popular winner on the night. Obviously more people in the audience probably own a Ming than maybe any of the other watches on this list. Maybe bar, Tudor and Zenith. But Ming's very affordable. Obviously done very well to touch several price points. And this, this is a nice entry level piece for the collection. Extremely comfortable, excellently executed as always, and lovely crowns. I love the size of those crowns. I think they're appropriately sized. So well done to Ming and the team and hopefully we'll get them back on the show soon to discuss this win and what they have coming up in the future. Right, next up, we've got the jewelry category. Six watches were entered into this category and so all six progressed to the final round of voting, each with a good chance of winning. Bulgari Furnice high jewelry secret watch. The Chopard Laguna high jewelry secret watch. The Damiani Margarita Desert Garden secret watch. The Dior Montre Grande Soire Bay and the Gucci G Timeless Planetarium. And my choice, the porn star mustache loving Piaget or a high jewelry watch. Oh, funny. It's called the Aura high jewelry. It's like my whole nickname and vibe in one watch. But it didn't win and neither did the Bulgari. The Bulgary got a huge cheer when it was announced. I felt it was gonna skip towards the win, but it did not. The winner was the Chopard Laguna high jewelry secret watch, which to me looks like the sort of thing Ariel the little mermaid would wear. What about you? Alon.
- [43:26]
Alain Ben Joseph
That was my solid second pick and was very, very close to the Bulgary. You thought I would go for the Damiani, but I found. I found it too cliche with the daisies.
- [43:37]
Rob Nudds
Okay.
- [43:37]
Alain Ben Joseph
Although it's cool, it has two watches. But. But real, real pieces of art are the Bulgarian Chopin My gut feeling says they just flip the coin. And then they said, with ratio all, Bvlgari has won too much, too many. Let's give it to an independent brand like Chopin, but rightful winner. In my humble opinion. If, if they would have given it to Gucci or Dior, I would have eaten my hat.
- [44:05]
Rob Nudds
So I learned something at the event. One of the people I was at the event with is a very accomplished jeweler, and she told me that there's a difference between joaloi and bijouterie.
- [44:18]
Alain Ben Joseph
Correct.
- [44:18]
Rob Nudds
I didn't know this. Okay, so you probably know, but for the sake of our listeners, for something, I'll try and summarize it as best I can. But basically, with bijouterie, the stones follow an existing form, but with jewelry, the form follows the stones. So the Bulgari, the Damiani. Well, especially the Bulgary. Especially the Bulgari. And also maybe the Chopard, you could say they're all examples of Hydru jewelry. The other three, interestingly, are really more examples of bijutari, which maybe should be a category on its own. I mean, I love the Piaget. It's basically just stones and a watch, but it's in the form of a watch. And the stones are second in priority to the way this thing looks. But the Bulgari, I mean, that's a piece of art.
- [45:03]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, so. So what she also means is often jewelers you have. So it's like a chef, do you write and do you create a dish, write the recipe and go do grocery shopping? Or do you just look in your cupboard, see what ingredients are in house, and then you serve up a dish? So what you see, Bulgari, they started with the aquamarine on top, and from there they created all the other designs. And its form follows function. And that's what she means. But in daily terms today in French, bijou is more of. Of jewelry and jollier is fine jewelry. In Dutch, we have the segmentation of juven and seeren in Dutch means to decorate yourself, so that can be anything. And juvelen is ju and jules a gem. So that means it's precious. So either with precious or none. And that's the differentiation we do in Dutch and in English, we just add the word fine. And in French they have two different words for it.
- [46:06]
Rob Nudds
Very interesting. So we learned something through that category. So.
- [46:10]
Alain Ben Joseph
So Du is also a jeweler, and bijouterie is not, per se, a jeweler.
- [46:13]
Rob Nudds
I am going to read more about this because I find it really, really fascinating of Course I find everything fascinating is my go to word Artistic crafts. Anderson Geneve, Jumping Hours. Black jade stone. The Chopard Luc Quatre Spirit 25 Year of a Dragon. Hermes, Assocorus Stellarum. Louis Vuitton. Escalate. Cabinet of Wonders. Snakes Jungle. Great name. Piaget. Glowing weave. Watch Anna Van Cleef and Appel Lady Appel Je Encante. This is another one of Van Cleef's wins. Obviously it, it is again the worthy winner. I think I picked the Anderson Genev because I'm biased towards that beautiful jump power complication. What do you think about this? Any comments?
- [46:55]
Alain Ben Joseph
Well, no, I mean I, no, I, I, I don't remember what I voted for but actually I, it could be that I voted for the Van Cleef and Arpel. I love the fact that the hands of the minutes and hours come out of a radiating sun and I gave Chopin I guess a second vote. And, and I love Anderson Geneva as well. I didn't vote for them twice but in this artistic craft there is a lot of mechanical art history. But just using a slab of very beautiful jade is not artistic enough for me. That's why they didn't get a vote for me. I love the engraving of the dragon and fun fact, one of the best engravers in Switzerland, he's a Dutchman. Did you know that, Rob?
- [47:49]
Rob Nudds
Well, funnily enough, I met him at the Grand Duke but didn't know I'd met him until the day after. I was playing darts. I was playing round the board with my new friend Thomas. A Dane, I was gonna say a fellow Dane then. I'm not Danish, but I'm getting more and more Danish by the day. And we were playing around the board, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, you know, doubles, you can skip ahead trebles, you can skip ahead up until six points and then you have to like ignore the trebles. And I was explaining this to Case Engelbert.
- [48:16]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, very good Case Engelbarts.
- [48:18]
Rob Nudds
Engelbartz, right. He was standing behind me, him and his missus wanted to play darts and he was, you know, he was jonesing for a game and he was trying to hurry me up a bit and he was like, what are you playing? So we're playing round the board. He'd never heard it before. He's a Dutchman, but his accent was so good I actually didn't know he was Dutch at the time. If I'd known he was Dutch then I would have been unsurprised. The fact he wanted to get on the darts board, but. And I would have made way for him quicker, especially if I know who he was. But we talked about this for a while and I think he had a go at playing it himself. And then the Grunefeld brothers turned up and Bart and Tim were there, not playing darts, but, you know, partaking in their sport of choice, as in making pints disappear very quickly. And a couple of collectors were there with Grinefeld Principias on, and we were chatting to them. I saw one of the collectors the following night, last night, and he was telling me who it was I've been talking to, and I believe he did the chopard. Right.
- [49:05]
Alain Ben Joseph
I. I don't know if he engraved this one, but he. He's very modest. He. He has his own watches, but I. I've seen him actually in the Netherlands few weeks ago, when he was at the 50th anniversary of Christian van der Klau, and he's done an amazing few dials for them as well. But he's very modest. He's actually not looking for more work and he has a lot of friends and he helps out friends. But I'm not quite sure if he did this one. It wouldn't surprise me because it seems his signature, but he is very good in doing extreme depths in engraving, so. And this dragon has depth, but I actually don't know.
- [49:47]
Rob Nudds
I'm pretty. I don't know. I was looking at his Instagram the other day and I have a feeling that he was. This was on there, but since we can't corroborate it immediately, we'll have to come back and maybe get him on the show. He was a very nice guy. Very nice, actually. Yeah, very. I was impressed. Okay, moving on. What about that? You know, you go out to the pub, obviously, if you go out to the pub in Glossop or Dresden, you don't expect to be surrounded by, like, watchmaking legends. So you never sort of think to ask, go like, oh, are you in the watch industry? It's just not a question you normally ask people in the Grand Duke. You should just assume that 90 of the people there, especially around a fair or an event, as someone that you should probably get to know. But, yeah, glad to have met him and look forward to meeting him again. Right. The Petit Aguillo category, one of the hottest contested categories. 30 watches were entered into this category initially, and only 6 made it through to the final round of voting. Of course, I looked at the 30 watches nominated in this category, and honestly, you could have picked four unique selections of six that that all would have been justifiable for the final runoff. And the watch that should have won this category didn't make it to the final six. And I'm not going to say the Arcanaut. I'm going to say the Toledano and Chan. The Toledano and Chan not only should have been in the final six, not only should it have won this category, but it could really have been a contestant for something as prestigious as maybe not the Golden Hand, but at least the Audacity. It would have been fighting tooth and nail with the winner of the Audacity prize that we haven't yet announced. Although you've probably figured out who it is. But how did Toledano and Chan not get through to this final six? I do not get it. Explain it to me. Okay, that's the right answer.
- [51:40]
Alain Ben Joseph
I don't even know where to start. And again, rightfully so. Freddie Constant with the Sconescon. Yes. Amid. Yes. Although it's just a tribute watch. I mean, it's an old one. Is the Tudor GMT 58 a petite worthy.
- [52:03]
Rob Nudds
No, no.
- [52:05]
Alain Ben Joseph
Shh. The. The. The. The funny thing is I have not paid enough attention to the perpetual one. I know it was Renault Teixie behind it. And a little spoiler. David and I interviewed the CEO Michel Nieto of renaultixie. Hopefully, hopefully, if we're lucky, it will be the next episode. If you hear this one or one after that, highly, highly recommended. Two scoops in that episode. So listen to it. I'm actually surprised that that didn't win.
- [52:44]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, me too. I picked it. I thought it was. I actually thought it was nailed on winner in this category. And look, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying all of these watches don't deserve to be in this category. I'm saying that when you've got those 30 pieces in front of you, you start with the Toledano and chant and then you build your five pieces afterwards, either taking the Arcano, obviously, but you know, there are so many good pieces. Let me just pull up. I've got them here. I saved them all the other day. Let's pull up the. The 30 pieces that were nominated for this. Get a load of some of these pieces that didn't make it to the final six.
- [53:15]
Alain Ben Joseph
But while you're pulling that up, I agree with you. 100. I mean, I own B1, so. And, and it's spectacular. And I've seen the responses at Geneva watch days of industry insiders, including you.
- [53:30]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [53:31]
Alain Ben Joseph
Phil and Alfred rocked up, up with their watches. One prototype, one is the one they launched. And the reactions were crazy. It was nice to see in real life.
- [53:43]
Rob Nudds
It's. I mean, it's even better than it looks on. On screen. And what they've got coming in the future is just a step beyond what they've already done. And I didn't think that was possible, but, yeah, what do I know? So these are the watches that were put forward for consideration for the Petit Aiguille category. We had the Amida that made it. The anode model 3 method. Gorgeous, gorgeous watch. Okay. Even though an ordain is one of my favorite brands, maybe they wouldn't have made the final six of my choices because there's so many to choose from. The Aonic Automat Black, new brand from Berlin. I'm working closely with them already as well, and they are doing some cool stuff. Everything in that watch is made by Damasco. Totally proprietary caliber. Beautiful case. Like a UFO on the wrist. Then there's the Arcanor Arc 2 havinder. You know how I feel about that one. The Bayard Chapter 4.7 Onyx Tourbillon Barons Orion 1. That is a petite Aguil category watch. That is what we're looking for in this category. It's exceptional. Then you've got the Nala Naram Kalam minutes timer. A cool chronograph Aorus ProPilot caliber 400 laser reservoir. Monza design 325 y Sapanieva watches. Moomin. Really popular. People love SAP and EVA. People love Moomins even more so that one could have made it through the Toledano and Chan B. One best watch in the business at this price point for me. The Tudor Black Bay 58 GMT. Boring and disappointing. If you want my two word review. ID Genev watches circular C ideas you never Obviously been very popular since they launched. They're doing great things with recyclable and sustainable materials. This watch has got a healing carbon bezel, so if you put it under a hairdryer, it heals. If you ding it, it's incredible. Kodoke three Salmon. Well, that one made it through. It didn't just make it through, it won. Spoiler. Lang 1943. That's a gorgeous watch. It's maybe a bit basic, but it is a beautifully done thing. The le Bois & Co. Heritage Chronograph 324.406 from My Good friend Tom Van der Hilich and that I had on my wrist in New York the other day. That is a piece that if you've not seen it in real life. Go and get one on your wrist. That is what vintage reimagining things should be. It is a stunner. It's a heritage piece. You can hand that down to your kids. They would always associate you with a watch of class and elegance if that were your pick. The Louis Arad, Regulator, Louie Arad and Cedric John A morph move. Morph. I don't know what's wrong with me sometimes Mass in the lab archetype one. I mean, this is crazy, right? Cornell Watch company Fears Brunswick, Aurora. Frederick Constant made it. Fella Mary made it. Gos Saric Frost. Cool as hell. Bit of representation for the Scandinavians. A lot of Scandinavian brands in here that didn't make it through to the final. You could have almost a Scandinavian run up halting Rick's Watches Lab Series 1. How is this not in the top six? This is an incredibly impressive piece. This should definitely have been there. Imagine the diversity and the creativity you could have had if you had the Toledano and Chan this and the Arcanor and other ones in there against each other. It would have been incredible. Brightly. Aerospace B70, Bremont, Terra Nova. Karl Zukian's own Belvedere. Love the Belvedere. This is the best thing Kalzuki's ever done. If you've not got it on your wrist, go and try it. It's comfortable and it's versatile and it's clever and cute. Cute and kooky. Christian van der Klaut. Ariadne made it through the Christopher Ward London the 12X. I mean, I saw Adrian there tonight. And the Christopher Ward gang, they were having a lovely time and all smiles, regardless of the fact this hadn't even made it through to the final six. But how? It's one of the most talked about watches in the world. The CIGA cigar design. Mount Everest. And that's it. That's 30 pieces. Incredible stuff. What a lineup. And like I said, the winner was Kidoke Bonkers.
- [57:16]
Alain Ben Joseph
Congrats to the Kodoka fam. Wonderful people, amazing artists, amazing watchmakers. So good for them. What I do like, they're more and more non Swiss brands that win because there are two trends going on. Hey, I was reading an amazing article in the Financial Times today and bang, I almost fell off my chair. Beautiful, handsome guy with a pornstone mustache. Can you guess who was on the front page of theft.com?
- [57:50]
Rob Nudds
Is it on the front page? It's not on the front page.
- [57:53]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, if you scroll down to the. To the bottom of all the subsections. And if you go to the jewelry and watch section, then we see, boom. Rob Nuts together with black badges and Anders. And what a quote. If the Swiss made all the shoes, we would all be wearing just three types of shoe and they would all be brown. Rob Nuts slash arcanaut. And the funny thing is, what is Rob wearing brown shoes? But it says something. And we see that it's becoming more international. You see that more prizes are going to non Swiss brands. And one thing that was trending yesterday, our dear friend Frank Galen, the founder of Monochrome Watches, he handed out an award and his little speech went viral on Instagram reels where he gave a unsubtle hint to the organization not to do the whole show in French.
- [58:52]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. Didn't go down too well in the room. I don't.
- [58:56]
Alain Ben Joseph
No, he didn't. He didn't.
- [58:57]
Rob Nudds
It was. It was deathly silent. I think 50% of the people there absolutely agreed with him.
- [59:01]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah, yeah.
- [59:02]
Rob Nudds
But, yeah, I don't think anyone really wanted to laugh. We were all laughing on the inside. It was funny.
- [59:07]
Alain Ben Joseph
No, well. Well, it wasn't funny. And the funny thing is, on the regrams last night, it almost went viral. And that is an amazing segue to the challenge category. We spend a lot of time on this. I think we got most excited about this one. I said, this is the first time ever I want to own all six. I own already two of the six. And we really had no idea who was going to win because we had the blow with a Second francaise, the CW with the C1 moon phase for the money with A Discover Day, the Colloquium with Project One, Otsuko Lotic with the number six and the Space one Tellurium. I don't even know. I don't remember what I voted. You voted for the space one, if I'm not mistaken.
- [59:55]
Rob Nudds
Yeah. You went for Colloquium.
- [59:56]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah. Am I happy Otsukolotek won? Yes. Mostly because he's Japanese and he built a module on top of a standard workhorse caliber. The only thing I'm a bit disappointed about it, and I forgot to say this during our previous recording and it was in the back of my mind, but now that I'm looking at it, the first thing that comes to mind is the Manometra by Giuliano Mazzuoli. Do you remember those watches, Rob?
- [60:25]
Rob Nudds
Oh, yeah, yeah, I do, actually. I was actually quite a big fan of this for some time during my training. Yeah, it does have a ring of that. Absolutely. It does. I think it's the sort of case shape, crack, nailed crown, the lugs. Yeah, there's a lot of. A lot that calls back to it. Look, this is a deserving winner. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the Christopher Ward Moon phase in competition with the other five pieces. I think it's a nice watch. Keep saying, but I don't think it holds a candle to the other five. If any of the other five had won, I would have said chapel, you know, you deserve it. But it was a shock this on the night, you know, when we finally discovered that colloquium, who I think was probably the favorite in the room and space, one who I think would be for me, it's like the logical winner. Maybe one of the most talked about watches of the year. When we realized they hadn't won. And like I say, Lydia was wearing this exact watch. It's actually Vu's. Vu had lent it to her for the night. But what a piece to be wearing. She yelped and screamed and clapped and cheered when this was announced, much to the amusement of everybody around her because it was the first. It was the first award read out on the evening, strangely enough. And that set the tone. I think Lydia kind of broke the ice in the room because there was a lot of weeping and cheering thereafter. But prior to that had all been very staid and professional. But that was. That was a stunner, a nice heartwarming acceptance speech and yeah, let's hope that he does more great things in the future. This watch retails for about €2,600. It's a lot of watch for that money.
- [61:51]
Alain Ben Joseph
I totally agree. And I'm. And I'm going to get one. I believe there is a waiting list for that watch, if I'm not mistaken.
- [61:57]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, there is. Yeah.
- [61:58]
Alain Ben Joseph
So congrats. And I love the fact how international GPHG is becoming leaves us with five more. Six more. We gave away the Aguildo. So do you want to start with that, Rob, or should we leave that to the end?
- [62:18]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, well, let's just talk about the IWC Eternal Calendar won the top prize on the evening. I think we're all in accord that it's a very worthy winner and was lovely to, you know, see a watch that began its journey really all the way back in the 80s with 85. 85.
- [62:36]
Alain Ben Joseph
1985. Yeah. When Kurt Klaus, with by hand drew the perpetual module on top of a Valjoux 7750, they teamed up. When the investors pulled JA LeCoultre IWC and then revived Lange. So there was a lot of intellectual property being shared, especially on the four digit year calendar display. And what I love, besides the fact that obviously Code Klaus pushed for setting the perpetual with a single crown, that's what really makes the IWC perpetual stand out. Today we'll see the Portuguese with a 5000 caliber. So that's their seven days power reserve, technically eight and a half days, but they capped it at 168 hours to preserve precision. It's a banger both in size, thickness, but also capabilities, or they added a power reserve to that. So that's what you'll see at the 3:00 position. I love the fact I always. I owned several Portuguese perpetual calendars. Love the watch. I let them go because they're simply too big and too thick. Change of taste. But I love the fact that they push the boundaries because I do not know of any other perpetual calendar that has been produced in cereal that can calculate mechanically beyond the year 2499. Do you, Rob?
- [64:13]
Rob Nudds
No. And I don't need many of them in my life, to be fair, because it's ridiculous complication. But it is absolutely the kind of ridiculousness that we all get excited about because that's what watchmaking is. And it was a brilliant acceptance speech from Chris Granger. Hair. He's clearly a very passionate, committed, driven man. A brilliant leader of the brand and yeah, humble in that moment of triumph. And talking of one legend of Kurt Klaas, let's talk about the special jury prize that went to Jean Pierre Hagman, a man that had retired, originally, planned to go and, and sit on his boat and enjoy his latter years in peace, but has been pulled back into the watchmaking industry to share his decades of experience with the younger generation. It was a very heartwarming speech. He's a cute little guy. He looks a bit like freshly shaved Papa Smurf. And he had a great jacket on. And he, he just commanded the adoration of the entire crowd with his like, warmth and his genuineness. He read off a list of names. Everyone's hands were red raw by the end of it because we applauded every name and it was a long list. And then as he was leaving the stage, he turned to the crowd and just stood, raised his arms aloft and held his GPhT award high. It was like he'd won the World Cup. It was brilliant. He got an absolute roar.
- [65:30]
Alain Ben Joseph
And rightfully so. Yeah, and rightfully so because for those that don't know who Jean Pierre Hagman is. He might be the best watch case maker alive. And Akrivia. So rexeprexepi pulled him back in. So that's what you're referring at?
- [65:48]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean he started his career before the days of cnc so he knows how to make a case one way or the other. Incredible guy.
- [65:55]
Alain Ben Joseph
Amazing.
- [65:56]
Rob Nudds
Talking of incredible people, I mean Bernard Lederer is a different kind of incredible person. A fearsome intellect and one of the true modern greats. And if you don't believe me, just ask him. He'll tell you himself. He won the chronometry prize three times. Satisfied? Observatory Chronometer, which is an example I think of just his supreme commander for craft and his confidence in his own ability which as we've said many times is maybe not peerless, but there is only a handful of people in the world that can hold a torch to later his work and glad to see.
- [66:30]
Alain Ben Joseph
This honored and again, I would have eaten my second hat if this wouldn't have won the chronometer watch. Because this is the watch that. And if you haven't heard the Geneva watch days review episodes that Rob and I did, we had a master class. We've hung out with his dear wife two times. Eva. Yeah, lovely Geneva watches. I had double the pleasure because you and I during one of our visits got sat down on the sofa like two little school kids and we didn't get lectured in the negative sense of the word, but in the positive sense of the word. We got a masterclass from the master. Just a private session. He sat us down, walked us through the troubles he had and the resistance from the observatories that he wanted to put on a pedestal and they didn't let him put it on a pedestal, which was weird. So shame on you. All three observatories. But the philosophy that goes into it. Listen to the episode please. It's an amazing watch. Not only design wise, but the thoughts and the philosophy and the ideas and the tributes he did. I love the watch just because of that. I would have bought it even if it was a fugly watch. But it's not. So I'm very happy they won. Congrats Bernard and Eva. And the second time I hung out with them was at the event in Geneva watches in the evening. We had great fun. So lovely people and rightfully so that they've won. So Rob, going from there to somebody I really, really need on the show asap. I've said that in the previous episode. Remy Coles, he won the horological revelation Prize with the Tobian.
- [68:21]
Rob Nudds
He did indeed. And this was one of the slips of the presenter. She revealed him when she should have been announcing his announcer. So that was a bit of an anticlimax, but I think he took it in strides and he's obviously very popular with the watch community and I think there's a lot of good things to come from him. It's a pretty stellar entry into. Into his own portfolio and yeah, we should get him on the show. I'm sure it'd be an interesting interview, as would Carl Friedrich Schuffler, the CEO of Chopard, who won an award for the Eco Innovation Prize, Luc Quality Fleurier, which was a new category, I believe, and Waco presented it, explained the thinking behind the category and Wanda, I think the industry definitely was right to bring in. Great to see Chopard recognized for their recycled materials and ethically sourced precious metals and stones.
- [69:21]
Alain Ben Joseph
I want to jump in quickly. I'm very happy that this category has been created or this award because it's not a category basically and it's needed. And I'm very happy that Chopar has won because they are one of the few and maybe the only big brands that take this very serious. They were the first to introduce, I believe that was the last Basel World, so that should have been 2000 or 2019. I don't even know how long Baselworld is dead, but let's assume it's 2019 or 2020. So already for four or five years, Chopard announced back then that all their gold is going to be fairly mined, fairly processed. So let's say sustainable gold. And now this watch, the Luc Qualite Fleuier, is a steel watch. They call it, I believe, Lucent steel or something like that, which is repurposed slash recycled steel. And they're really pushing the envelope because it pushes up prices or it pushes down their margin. But they as a family truly believe in this. So kudos to them, rightfully so. I would have hoped that ID Genev would have won or Cedric Bellon, because they are the Robin Hoods of the watch industry if it comes to sustainability. So I really hope that next year Adi Genev or Cedric Bellon win this prize.
- [70:50]
Rob Nudds
Yeah, I think there's actually mileage for this to become a proper category, like so have multiple watches nominated because there's so many people doing interesting things on this front. When it comes to recycled steel, though, just a point about recycled steel, nearly all steel is recycled to some degree, so this is 80% plus is what Chopard is claiming, which is slightly higher than like your normal steel, which is probably about 60% recycled, but you can get even higher. You can go up to like, 1995. Like Fortis uses 95% recycled steel. And ID Genev not only uses recycled steel, but melts it in a solar furnace. If you don't know what that is, go check it out. It's incredible.
- [71:27]
Alain Ben Joseph
Yeah. And I'm going to correct you here. Cedric Bellon was the first ever, ever watchmaker to use 100% recycled steel.
- [71:38]
Rob Nudds
I'm not sure that's a correction as much as it is an addition. Well done.
- [71:42]
Alain Ben Joseph
Fair enough.
- [71:42]
Rob Nudds
Yeah.
- [71:43]
Alain Ben Joseph
And he is the Robin Hood together with the boys from Idgneve. And I'm really trying to make them work together. So I'm working behind the scenes. I'm very happy that there's more being done in the watchmaking industry. I don't think there are enough brands to make a category of six, but I really hope that more brands follow both Idgnef and Cedric Ballon behind the scenes. I'm trying to make these gentlemen work together as well. And Cedric Bellon really is a gentleman and he doesn't get enough credibility. But that's why we did a collab with him at Ace Jewelers. The first ever recycled steel watch. And we're now pushing the envelope on titanium. Super cool. But let's go quickly to the next award. Rob.
- [72:30]
Rob Nudds
Well, we've left this one to the very end to announce because we're massively biased and we're not sorry. It's the Audacity prize, the perfect award for possibly the perfect watch designed by our good friend Sylvain Berneron. The Mirage Sienna was duly honored as a fitting winner for the Audacity category or not category, as you would say award. I mean, how often has a watch been better suited to an award? Really?
- [73:00]
Alain Ben Joseph
I don't need to add anything. I think we've said it often enough. I am not objective friends with Sylvain. The first time he's shown immediate prototype. I don't remember how long ago, two, three years ago, it was simply a 3D printed something with a paper dial. I fell off my chair, literally ordered it on the spot. And I said to him, you're going to win gphg. Thank you, GPHG jury for making it happen. So I don't look like a fool.
- [73:27]
Rob Nudds
It was obvious to us from the get go, wasn't it? You have been saying that for years and I fully support that prediction. And we're just happy that it came to pass. You know, that it, it looked likely that he was going to get something, but you never know until you know. And it was great to see him on stage. He had a good speech and it was just heartwarming. Inspiring as always. And this is just the first chapter in a wonderful story. He's already begun writing with his wife and his team, and hopefully the next few years will be successful for him. So he has the peace and the headspace he needs to be as creative as he's possessed is possibly able. And who knows what might follow that. All right, we did it. We wrapped it up. That's it. GPHG 2024 in the books. Please get in touch with us if you have any comments or questions about the event or anything else. You can do so by either contacting our slightly reworked Instagram page at therealtime Show. You'll be able to find links to all of the host profiles on there. So you can contact us directly or send us messages. That would be lovely. You can also contact us via email, either Rob Alon or David at the Real Time show, or via the contact form on the website ww therealtime.show. so, three years in a row we've covered the GPHG, knocking off our second anniversary with style. Can't wait for the fourth iteration and our third anniversary, but we've got a lot more interviews and a lot more great watch content to come. Before that, tune in next time for another interview with one of watchmaking's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.