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Transcript44 lines
- [00:00]
Jacky Epito
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Alon Men Joseph
Watch fans, welcome back. I am Alon Men Joseph, your co founder of the Real Time show, also known as your resident jeweler, calling in all the way from Amsterdam, together with my co founder Rob Knutz, calling in all the way from a very hot city. What city are you in today, Rob?
- [00:28]
Rob Knutz
Today I'm in Wrocaw Alon. I'm enjoying the Polish summer and it is absolutely piping hot. Although today we've had a bit of a reprieve. It's down from 40 degrees to around 26. So happy days, Happy days.
- [00:42]
Alon Men Joseph
Although not so happy for me, I woke up very, very, very cranky because the Dutch got kicked out, literally of the World Cup. But I got, I moved back up when I looked at my calendar and saw that we have a very, very special guest on the show today that I've been looking forward to have on the show quite some time. The infamous and also ex football player Jacky Epito, the founder and CEO of Rudis Silva. Welcome, Jackie.
- [01:15]
Jacky Epito
Hello. Thank you for welcoming me. Your platform.
- [01:19]
Alon Men Joseph
We wanted you on the show after a very, very fun initial meeting during Watches and wonders. A little anecdote before we begin because we have a lot of ground to cover. And for you, dear listeners, if you're on the fence deciding to finish this whole episode or not, brace yourself because this is going to be a masterclass of Hotel Luie with a very, very specific topic, which is resonance. Why? I was strolling the halls of watches and wonders in Palex for this year. And while visiting, the most fun hall for me is the Carre d'. Ologier. Behind the Rolex booth was one of the most friendly ladies in the watch business, Caroline Pitta. Lovely lady, very knowledgeable, very friendly. Kisses, hugs. How are you? How are the kids? And she was standing instead of the Rudis Silva booth. But the booth, unlike all others, wasn't open. It actually had a vitrine, a showcase. It was very close. So Caroline literally pulled me in. Although running from appointment to appointment, she says, I don't. You have to come in. Coming into the booth, it wasn't grand in meters, but it was grand in vibe and energy. It's as if you walked in to a friend's home with a big dining table. Everybody scattered around the table and you immediately felt the good vibes and energy. In the middle, sitting Jackie Epito, full of energy, jumping up and down from his seat, shaking hands, kissing, telling stories and handing out amazing watches. Well meaning to stay only for one minute. It ended up being a full 40 minutes where I had a masterclass of resonance and tourbillons carousels. And why the name Rue da Silva is so important to Switzerland. So that is my little intro. Dear Jackie Blessed, before I give the mic to you, maybe for our listeners that aren't that aware what resonance even is or means. It's a phenomenon that we've seen in nature or see in nature and in watchmaking. We often call resonance watches when two oscillators influence each other and synchronize. And if I say something stupid, Ro, please don't to jump in because you are a resident watchmaker. This is something that's very rare, very difficult to accomplish, if I recollect correctly. True, true resonance calibers that we know in modern era. Because one of the most famous pocket watches that we know is done by Breguet. I recall the FP Journe Chronometre Arizonos. I think of the beat Haldiman, the H2 flying resonance, which already might be tricky because they're both on one connecting axis, let's say. And some call the Armin Strom a resonance. Some argue. So there we go. Suddenly into a gray area where you have one made by Antoine Precisure. Some consider Bernard Lederer's calibers resonance, but aren't really because they have a remontoir regulating. So I'll stop there. Breguet in the modern era has or had a resonance piece. And that's what I recall. And then suddenly we have Rue du Silva revolutionizing that segment of Haute Logierie. Jackie, I'll shut up. The mic is yours. Tell us who you are and why you start.
- [05:27]
Jacky Epito
Rudy Silva. Yes, I basically I am on the commercial side, and not as a watchmaker, but all around me. As long as I born in the roots of the watch industry means I born in La Chaudefond. I have decided after a couple of years managing companies in Switzerland, like Rodolph, for example, and I used to work also for Zenith. I decided to sell my shares Rodolph shares to Franck Muller Group and to build up my own company. And I had to choose a name. I could choose any kind of name of a watchmaker, because in my village, where I stay, where I am located kilometers from la Chaudfonds, in 1900 we had 1,400 inhabitants and among them 600 watchmakers, producing about 30,000 watches a year. So it wouldn't have been a problem to find the name of a prestigious watchmaker. For example, Mr. Bohm from Baume, Mercier is from his village too. Some roots of Nimarox Fra belonging to Swatch. They are also from this village. So it's really an important location in historical consideration. And that's why I decided to take and to name the brand the previous name of the village where I stay. So today the village's name is Les Bois. That means the forests in English. Before, when we used to speak in Latin, it was Rudis. The name came from Mr. Rudin, who came up to the mountain in 1400 to cut the trees and establish himself at the height of 1000 meter high. Because we had a lot of snow, so we didn't have to pay taxes. If people from the lakeside came up, they avoid the taxes because the wind used to last about six months with a very high snow, so no possibility to make money. So a guy who came from lake of Neuchatel named the village Rudis from Rudin Jean Rudin, Mr. Jean Rudin and Silva, that means forest. So the village was Rudi Silva. Then it became Les Bois, Jean Rudins and now just Les Bois. So this history is not specific. From this vill of the coming up of the people from the lakeside is about all the Jura chain. I mean, Jura trains start from Geneva to Basel, roughly at the height of 1000 meter high, where most of the watchmaker used to start producing watches during winter and take care of the fields and the cows during summer. Paysan Horologer, we call them farmers and watchmakers. So I decided to take this name and together we, one my cousin and one friend, we build up in 2006. Yes, we have 20 years. We are 20 years old now. We built up this brand with the name of Rudy Silva. This is a little bit the roots of the brand. So also when you build up a brand, if you allow me to continue with that, you have two choices. You can buy a movement, so you avoid to design the screw, the springs. All the physical matters are already accurate. And this is very low. Not a very low cost, but less cost. It's much cheaper to have this choice when you start with a brand. We decided as long as all around us, around our village, we have a lot of know how. We decided to build up our own movements. So this was a challenge. Maybe I wouldn't do the same, as long as it was such a long way from the first drawings, screw drawings, every bridge's drawings, wheels drawings. By the end, when we started to assemble the components, we noticed it was not functioning. So we have to throw everything on the bing on the bin. By the end, after four years, thanks To a watchmaker who was very genius working for us. This guy name was Mika Ri Sanan. He was our employee. He found an idea to solve all our troubles, inventing fantastic things. And we name it Harmonious Oscillator. Just to focus a little bit of Mikhail Ri Sannen. He was more a prototypist guy watchmaker. He used to work for Christophe Claret also. And he did, for example, the assembling of the Gen Giscon Ulysse Nardin watch. A little bit more than 1000 components. So a very talented guy. And he had the idea of the harmonious Oscillator for us. So he saved really Silva. And we came out in 2009 during Basel Fair with totally new movements showing resonance, like you said, mechanical resonance. And on the other side, what the other competitors we have on the resonance, we also canceled the effect of gravity immediately. It means playing in the field of the tourbillon. You know, when Breguet invented the tourbillon, it's for watches in vertical position, was affected by the gravity. And now with the invention we have, comparing to normal tourbillon, we don't need any seconds to balance the gravity. We are not affected anymore. Brigitte invention and most of the tourbillon today they need one minute in vertical position to compensate or to balance the gravity effect. So it's a little bit the roots of our history. The basic start of Rudy Silva.
- [12:31]
Rob Knutz
So why was it that you decided, I guess, led by this watchmaker you referenced before, to go down the route of resonance? Why did you make that your central tenet? What is it you think resonance expresses as a, if not complication, complexity in watchmaking?
- [12:52]
Jacky Epito
If you are to exchange power. The first idea we had it was to put two balance next to the other. Not connected like it's today, but next to the other. And instead of exchanging power like the 2 balance of a clock. We know that for a long time that if you move two balance together, after a quick moment, they go together with a resonance effect. So the idea was to have a resonance, to have the two balance next to each other and under the two balance. To have a pin moving from one kind of pin moving from one side to the other, from left to right, to compensate the loss of energy of one balance or the other balance. But we immediately noticed that we made a mistake. When we built up this movement. It couldn't work like it was constructed. So we decided to change. And this guy, Mika Rysanen, our watchmaker, had the idea. We bought him a machine. Hauser machine and we asked him, mika, take the time you want, keep staying home, try to find an idea to solve the problem we have, because today it's not functioning. So on the drawings, on the computer, it was functioning, but when you assemble the things, it couldn't work. So we had to find a solution. So after a couple of months, this guy found a very crazy idea. I would say it's to put to teeth the balance and to connect them. So it was completely crazy because we have only, only one wheel, skeptical wheel turning, one balance making, moving one balance. And on the other side, he placed another balance without any energy, just placing in front of it, and connected the teeth balance together. And we imagine in the beginning that it cannot work because you cannot have a resistance on a balance. But when you look a little bit further, he had the idea to mount the air spring in opposite side of the other one. So it's a little bit like if you have two heart. One is when one is recovering the power, the other one is giving the power. So when one air spring is opening, the other one in front is closing. So it's a second power. It's not a resistance, it's a power. So when we show this movement to Basel immediately. So before going to Basel, we show it to Philippe Dufour. And Philippe, he saw a little bit the first drawings we had, just having the 2 balance next to the other. And Philippe said, I don't know if it can work like that. I suppose it's not possible. But he was waiting for that. And when we show him the first design the watchmaker decided to make with the connected teeth, and when he explained to Philippe that on the opposite side of one balance, the other one has a hair spring mounted in opposite side, immediately Philippe understood that it's a second energy. And during the Basel fair, he came many times with different people to show this invention. And almost every CEO of different brands of Basel came also to see that invention. Because this invention is about gravity and gravity fight and also about resonance.
- [17:22]
Rob Knutz
Okay, so what's interesting, I'm just going to break this down for our listeners. If what they're picturing in their minds is a little complicated to understand. You've got one power source, two barrels, like mounted in symmetrical layout so that the whole movement is very beautiful. Two barrels, yes, very easy to understand. These barrels, they drive a normal gear train, a normal escapement, and that escapement engages with one balance wheel. Now that balance wheel spins in one direction, and it is toothed on the outer ridge of that balance wheel. And those Teeth engage with a second balance wheel, which is set up in the opposite direction. So when one oscillation or one vibration moves in one direction, effectively uncurling the first balance, it curls the hairspring of the second balance wheel, loading that in position so that when it spins back and unfurls, it applies additional impulse. And we'll use the word impulse rather than energy, so that the audiences clear on the fact that there isn't a second power source driving the second balance. That balance gains its impulse from the first balance connected to the gear train, and then it delivers a secondary impulse to that balance wheel to keep them both spinning backwards in forwards, in harmony. Now my question to you is this, is this really resonance? Because of course you end up with an average of these two hairsprings as they operate. But resonance as we know it is two balance wheels that are set separately, communicating their vibrations through a fixed plate effectively. So you get this resonant feedback from one balance to the other. Is this resonance or Is this resonance 2.0?
- [18:55]
Jacky Epito
We should divide the resonance, physical resonance, like you have a dust on a table and you move your hand on the table, it give an energy. So like Francois Paul Jour did, the resonance, it's to approach the two balance, it's a physical resonance. If you consider Rudi Silva or Arminstrom or others like Armistrom, it's kind of spring. It used to exist in clocks before they reduce it. And the air spring is giving the power to the other. So it's a mechanical resonance, we can call it. And what Rudi Silva do, as long as it's connected, it's also a mechanical resonance, because one energy is giving to the other balance, an energy too. So we can call it resonance. The difference with the others, that it's another field, we have resonance, we are exchanging the power. But on the other side, what the other one doesn't do is to fight against gravity effect in vertical position. So what we are providing with this device, that if you have the invention of the Breguet Tourbillon, the balance, the escapement is turning in a cage in one minute. So in the beginning, when you use a gravity effect, you gain time. So you have plus 1, plus 2, plus 5, etc. After 30 seconds your escapement has to come back, so it's losing the time gain the 31st second. So minus two, minus five, et cetera. And after one full minute in vertical position, you have balance of gravity. This is the invention of brigade, what we do, one balance and air spring in the harmonious Oscillator, what I mean is gaining, for example, plus three seconds on the opposite side. As long it's connected, it's minus 3, plus 4, minus 4, plus 5, minus 5. If it was not a connection together, it's like a double tourbillon. We're not talking to each other. We would have, for example, in one tourbillon plus five and the other one plus two. No compensation. They don't talk to each other. The connection of the teeth balance talk to each other and mean that with this story, plus three together with minus three all the time, plus five, minus five, plus seven, minus seven, it's always zero. So it's absolutely no more affected by the gravity effect when we show it. These two Nivarox engineers who are also providing us the air spring when they noticed we have teeth, the balance. They watch with micros the balance and they say, my God, they teased the balance. They couldn't believe it. And when we explained a little bit with the demonstration, when we explain it, they were very amazed. And then we provided them the test we did. And they say that it's really accurate and it can work like that. And the resonance system is also providing a top accuracy in any kind of position. But particularly our system, the harmonious oscillator is different than resonance watches in terms also of gravity effect fighting.
- [22:51]
Rob Knutz
I mean, it's a remarkable technical achievement. I do think that it actually stands alone separate from traditional resonance, if we want to call it that. And it's somewhere between that and a tourbillon in its ability to compensate for gravitational impact. One thing that I want to touch on, I don't want to go and ironically too far into depth on this is the depth of engagement of the teeth of those two balance wheels. Because of course we're talking about extremely fine watchmaking and tolerances of microns to make this work. But of course you can't lubricate a balance wheel. You can't even put something like an evaporation lubricant like Epilam on it because it would affect the poise. So these are two unlubricated teeth bal wheels meshing together perfectly with an absolutely precise level of backlash so that they can function without any kind of jamming or excessive wear over time. Have you noticed any problems with this mechanism in actual use? Because theoretically it sounds wonderful, but when it's on the wrist, do these wheels ever jam up together? Or is that something you never see in the beginning?
- [23:59]
Jacky Epito
You are right, Rob. In the beginning we noticed that we have connected the balance too Deep. So we decided to external a little bit the balance. And also we have teeth, the balance a little bit cubic, too sharp. So we decided also to cut the teeth in round position on one side and in round on the other side. And the goal was to just have them connected, talking to each other, not too far, not too deep, but just lightly connected, just to talk to each other. And we immediately noticed that it was working. We didn't lose energy. The amplitude was also very good in any positions. And what was funny that when one watchmaker came to us in the first Basel fair to watch the device, they said in the beginning, you have a resistance on one balance, it cannot work. But immediately when we explain that the other balance within opposite side of the tracted balance has the air spring mounted in opposite side, immediately the light came in the head of the watchmakers and engineers and they understood the concept. And that's why we got a lot of articles from the press that this invention also that what we got is some master watchmakers said that this invention is probably as important as Breguet invention of the tourbillon in 1801. So to fight against gravity. And also we borrow this movement to Dubois des Pras factory, which is also a very famous factory in Switzerland, very famous to produce complicated watches. We borrow them about two, three months. And they noticed, they were amazed by the precision when you wear the watch, the compensation. And it's probably also due to the resonance and the exchange of the power of the two balance together.
- [26:23]
Rob Knutz
It's an extremely significant achievement. And I guess I'm going to give it a name. I'm going to call it a kissing coupling because these components, they barely touch, right? It's just a breath of contact as they move past each other to supply that impulse back and forth. It really is. I mean, I'm going to use my go to word here. Fascinating. Fascinating to hear that someone developed something so new. I want to go back to my first question and just drill in on this a little bit further. I asked why resonance? What is it about this challenge in watchmaking that appeals to you that you thought could be the. The central tenet of your entire company? Why resonance? Why not Tourbillon's? Why not chronographs? Why not GMTs? Why resonance?
- [27:11]
Jacky Epito
Resonance is really an exchange of or help of compensating some loss of energy of one device to the other. So if you have one, you can be affected like the human people. If you are two. And when one is functioning properly and the other one is a little tired, or has some affecting by the position or not only gravity, but any kind of movement of the people. The other one can help. And resonance, if you consider the resonance today, is to make the watch more accurate in any kind of position. So resonance Rudi Silva has it. And on the other side we have the fight against gravity. So we decide when we show this movement to, to Fi Nivarox they said also the engineers doctors are there. He said, but you don't have maybe to move the cage rotating in one minute. If you have the two balance fixed, you have always, for example -5 and you also fight against the gravity and you have also the resonance. So when we had the collection Rs23 two years ago, we have the two balance fixed not turning anymore in a cage. So it was still resonance. And it was also fighting exactly like a tourbillon against the gravity effect, even if the two balance were fixed. So the theory is absolutely adapted to the balance turning in a cage or being fixed on one position. So resonance for us is really about accuracy when you wear the watch. We have made tests with the Cosc and the Global Achievement, the Global Precision. After two weeks test it was 1.72 seconds per day average moving. So it's really when I wear the watch, I never wind it. It's a hand winding movement. I never wind it anymore. And what is extremely important and, and what is also impressive for us and for the watchmaker that since we started 20 years ago, we never got any watches back from customers about the technology of the harmonious oscillator. We had some other problems. One hand went one skew or something like that, but never about the technology. Never.
- [30:12]
Rob Knutz
I mean, that is extremely impressive and highly unusual for such a pioneering technology to go out into the market and to not encounter any real world issues like that for, well, the best part of two decades now, which is incredible, a great achievement. I guess the angle that I'm really pushing at here is the motivation for choosing resonance. Was it narrative driven, did you think? Okay, there's a story here that we can tell similar as you've expressed already with the, you know, the partnership between people in life and the partnership between these two balances in the movement, or was your goal really just to create the best, most accurate mechanical wristwatch possible? What was most important to you, Jackie,
- [30:54]
Jacky Epito
personally, the engineers who had the idea to create the resonance. It was to. To say that physical resonance in approaching the two balance, you know, it's exchanging power, but you cannot measure it or prove it. But we know, we know by the Science by the physical consideration we know it's providing energy to each other. So the idea was to have a resonance mechanic with this kind of pin under the two balance. And unfortunately we should have had a differential differential. And my engineers who did this caliber, he didn't have the idea to also add a differential on it. So it was not functioning in the beginning. That's why the other one, Mika Rysanen, the guy we employed, had the ID to tee the balance. And we follow up the ID of resonance we had in the beginning. But the first ID was not functioning. That's why we exchanged a little bit the ID and the ID had to tease the balance and mount the air spring in opposite side was completely crazy because like most of the watchmakers said, it seems when you see it, it cannot. And when you immediately imagined that the other one is not. How do you call it? The other one is really a power. It's not a handicap. But you transform the handicap in power. So it's this invention. That's why it was mentioned. An invention as important as breguet tourbillon in 1801.
- [33:00]
Rob Knutz
Yeah, yeah. So it doesn't absorb, it restores the power. It takes what it takes from one balance and gives it right back to it. It's. Yeah. Ingenious solution, that's for sure. You mentioned that when you released this. I don't want to call it a complication, I want to call it something else. Let's call it an incredible function. When you released this invention into the world, it met with positive reception in the press. That is unsurprising. The press love to have something new and interesting to talk about. And really is both those things, how is that translated into sales and the growth of your community? Do you have a very large community globally now by Enridius Silver watches? Or is it still a very small family?
- [33:45]
Jacky Epito
Aloh, it's still a small family because, you know, we decided also to add to this technology all the talent of the friends we have around us. So immediately we decided not only to have technology in our movement, but also to have a superlative finishing. So also journalists were talking about the superlative finishing. I would say that part of the journalists, it's easier for them to talk about guilloche or Vienna Mail or hand engraving, et cetera. It's easier to understand and to explain for brands but and some journal. And it means that to talk about the technology like we are talking today, like you are Rob, explaining to understanding very well the things the trade magazines part of them couldn't Explain the harmonious oscillator properly because it's quite sophisticated in technology. It's not easy to explain. So we had and we had excellent articles and quite a lot, but not as many as you invent. I don't know what kind of things. Very easy to explain. So our collectors or our customers today, we have to explain them still to explain them a little bit. The technology. And they come for a D Silver for the technology and also for the finishing we provide. So the quantity we are delivering is not huge because it takes a lot of time to produce it. Not only the technology, the harmonious oscillator, but also all the finishing. And it's still something we have to improve. I mean, we still have to communicate a lot about the harmonious oscillator and also the what we have noticed that as long as we are against every logical theory what we have invented, it's very difficult for the other brands or other watchmakers to accept that the balance wheel has to be as free as possible to have the maximum amplitude. So when they see something in front not having a power, it seems it's not having a power, but being a resistance on the balance, they immediately say it cannot work. So you always have to get the acceptance of the watchmakers to finally make them accepting a new theory of the watch industry. And today what I'm very proud that in Le Locle, in the Swiss watch school of watchmaker, we have a lot of teachers who are coming every year during the show in Geneva with classroom to show the harmonious oscillator and to educate the students to this new theory. Because they consider the teachers in the watchmaker school, they consider this invention as a major invention. So we are proud of that. Even this year we had technical school from Bien, from Geneva, from Lerloc, from Jura also. And we also get a lot of engineers and watchmakers from other brands like Rolex, Patek and others coming. We are proud of that.
- [37:37]
Alon Men Joseph
That gives me the perfect segue. Dear Jackie, to ask only 20 years, I count seven references. Mind blowing. Technology and innovation. Probably brands have been knocking down your door to obtain calibers. Have you ever supplied other brands with the calibers?
- [38:00]
Jacky Epito
Not yet, no. Because we would keep it for us and we are profitable for many years. And we decided to keep going a little bit more without providing this device to other brands. When I used to work for Zenith, we had the El Primero movement, also invented in 69 with colon wheels. And it was another action. We decided to deliver it to Rolex and to two or three other brands. And personally, as long as I was working for Zenith this past time, I said, okay, with 3D Silva, we will keep it exclusively for our brand. And we had some demand, but we thanked them, but we said, okay, we keep it for us. And if a customer wants to get an Amoled oscillator, he has to buy a Redisiva watch,
- [39:01]
Alon Men Joseph
if not supplying other brands. Have you ever done collabs? And I'm thinking of the Opus chapters under Max Busser's reign at Harry Winston, or more modern era collabs like MB&F and Bvlgari, etc.
- [39:18]
Jacky Epito
We didn't do that. If it was a good brand or a good opportunity, maybe we would do that. But at the moment we had some proposal for that, but we decided not to make that. Well,
- [39:39]
Alon Men Joseph
It's almost rhetorical, but how important is the independence you currently have for you and your shareholders and stakeholders
- [39:49]
Jacky Epito
if you are independent? When you wake up in the morning, you decide something for the evening. It's you are, you are quicker. You, you, you show the designer, you ask him which color would you place here? He said, I propose gray, the other one say black. And your mind is black. So you choose black. And the next day you place an order to the dial supplier, for example. And personally, I am like an orchestral chef. I have a lot of talented people around me, like next to me, George Brodbeck, who was awarded Prix Gaia in the International Watch Museum of La Chaudefond, who is also probably the highest reference in Guillot, now is retired. So I have around me very good advisors. On the other side I have Jean Francois Erar, good friends of mine, about 500 meters leading from us. He did for example, the double gong, double tower square gong from Greubel Forsey. And it's extremely difficult to repeat this. And he's also a good advisor for me. So I have around me a lot of friends who can advise us what to do and which way and to be independent. It's good also to have around you not only money and sometimes money is affecting your project, but to have talented people who has a know how a long experience in watchmaking and saying, don't choose this metal, don't do that, choose probably this way and not that way. And this is much more helpful sometime than a lot of money on the account.
- [41:53]
Alon Men Joseph
As an entrepreneur, what are the biggest bottlenecks you encounter today?
- [41:59]
Jacky Epito
For us, we would like to increase the quantities to 50 to 100 pieces a year. Now we have built up the roots of Rudi Silva during the first 20 years, the roots about the accuracy of the product, the reconnaissance of the harmonious oscillator, the proofs of. That the brand is lasting, is going through the years and still remaining live, being totally independent, having paid every supplier, etc. So now the goal is to. Because we have two or three calibers around the harmonious oscillator. Now the ground is to grow up in the market. And the first objective is to make the harmonious oscillator more known. That is today and accepted by the trade.
- [43:06]
Alon Men Joseph
How important are retail partners for you as a brand?
- [43:12]
Jacky Epito
I always said the retailers for us are our lawyers in the market. So when you explain them properly, the mechanism and you are correct with them, you help them to sell. By the end they are your lawyers in English language, in Chinese language, in any kind of language, Japanese language. And they became your lawyers in the language of the collectors of the countries. So we estimate them a lot and we try to help them to sell also. And we are behind them to help them to. We are friendly with them, we invite them, we send them a lot of. We have a lot of regards to them. I would say.
- [44:08]
Alon Men Joseph
I enjoyed the special orders section on your website very, very much. Is there a watch that's not published there or a nice anecdote you can and are willing to share with our listeners?
- [44:22]
Rob Knutz
Listeners?
- [44:24]
Jacky Epito
Oh, I have many anecdotes. You know, I am in the business for a long time. I travel all around the world for Zenith, for da Silva, for Rodolphe. I have many anecdotes and also I deal with football players of Brazil. When they were eliminated in the World cup in Germany. Only one player in the field didn't buy the watches. I was dealing before because I became friends from them. People like Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, etc. So it was a good period in the watch industry to have them. Other anecdote I can say about movements and I'm very proud that for example, a guy like George Brodbeck, who during the subprime crisis couldn't make any invoice during 16 months. He didn't supply anything because it was not the tendency to have guilloche. So we tried to push also people like that on the world to show the talent they have. And even if this anecdote today is the past, as long as George didn't sell during 16 months NEP today he got the recognition of being the top of the guillotine guy in the world. And he was awarded pre Gaia in the watch. Museum in La Chaudefonds. So this kind of anecdote for me, I'm very proud of showing all these talented people around me, very modest, who had sometimes some problems to make money because it was not the tendency of guilloche or not the tendance of inward corners to have today the opportunity to show to the world this kind of know how. And it makes me very proud also to have inside the watches and inside the history of Rudy Silva to have this kind of anecdote to say today.
- [46:46]
Rob Knutz
You know, you touched on football there and your close connection with some of, well, the this century's greatest player players, without a doubt World cup winners as well. We are recording this on June 30, the day after both the Netherlands, Germany and Japan were unceremoniously dumped out of the World Cup. And I think it's very interesting to touch a little bit on the personality behind brands so that our listeners get a chance to get to know you a little better. Jackie, you've got some deep roots in the game of football. Could you just tell us about that?
- [47:16]
Jacky Epito
Yes, I'm very fond of football. Even today my both sons are playing and one is professional. He just signed a contract in 1st Div in Albania. I am also a Swiss football instructor, so I have to teach to people. And I had a lot of opportunity to attend super matches like the semifinal France Croissy in Paris. Like for example, I went to the semifinal England against Germany in Italy. And the next week I went back to Roma to see the finals. Maradona losing against Germany. A couple of years later I went to Pasadena in USA to see the finals. Seeing Pagio shooting over the Tribune. I am a little bit Brazilian in my hurt. I also. So I was fond of, I was fond of having this victory even if it was not a super match. But I was so happy that I got married the next day in Las Vegas. So.
- [48:35]
Rob Knutz
Well, that is a story for another podcast.
- [48:38]
Jacky Epito
Yeah, exactly.
- [48:39]
Rob Knutz
TRTS XXX
- [48:44]
Jacky Epito
and the owner of Zenith was also when I used to work, the owner of Zenit, he was also found of football. So one day he asked me, Jackie, what do you do in June 20th? I can't remember the fixed date, but I said, I watch in my calendar. I say, ah, I have something, I'm busy. Ah, it's a shame because I would invite you to see the first match of the World cup in usa. Switzerland against USA in Detroit. I say, oh my God, I should find an apologize not to go to this one. So I went there and saw the match, the Stadium was covered. The temperature inside it was about 50 degrees. Completely crazy. Then I came back to Switzerland. After I went back, I went to New York to see the semifinal, Italy against Bulgari. And after I crossed USA to see the final. And also I had the opportunity to see unfortunately the Brazil losing against France when Zidane did a super play. And after I went to Germany in Berlin to show the match, France, Italy and I was inside the stadium and suddenly Zidane had this bad head kick and the action was on the right side. So the French people and the public, we didn't see what Zidane was did on the left side. Everybody was crazy about the decision of the referee. And by the end when we saw the picture, it was totally right to exclude him of the field. But yes, it was a very big experience about football. And I have more and more and many others to say you but I will stop here.
- [50:38]
Rob Knutz
Well, we have stories there from World cup stretching all the way back to 1990 and some of the most classic moments that you've seen with your own eyes, which is quite incredible. I would ask you now, this episode is due to go out on July 26, one week after the World cup final. So I'm going to put you on the spot. Can you predict for us who will have lifted the World cup trophy last week when people listened to this, Will it be one of the usual offenders? Will it be Argentina again? Will it be your adopted nation of Brazil? Will it be Switzerland? Will it be England? Who do you think is going to emerge victorious this year, year in World Cup 2026?
- [51:15]
Jacky Epito
Paul, if it's Switzerland, I offer you the champagne, but I don't think we will win. Even if I'm Brazilian and they five stars, they will not win. It's not a super team. They have a super trainer. And when I saw the Holland playing, I said, okay, with such a team they could reach a final. And I was very, I was very fond of the team of Neskin, Scrif, Ajiha and all these super players of this period. So I said maybe Holland is coming back. Unfortunately they lose last night. But as I can see the players they have, France is again one of the favorite. And I was also amazed of Morocco playing against Brazil. Technically they are good and I would say maybe they could also reach the final. The Morocco?
- [52:13]
Rob Knutz
Yeah. Well, if they want to reach the final, they've got to go through France. They're currently slated on June 30th as we're recording to play France in the quarter. Both should make it so far. So that's a fine. A fine matchup very early in the tournament, one stage earlier than it was last time around because France and Morocco played in the semis in 2022. I think you're right. I think France are the favorites. I think they're going to be. I hope they're playing either England or Argentina in the final. My pre tournament pick was a free France Argentina rematch with France claiming their third title overall and second in three tournaments. So let's keep our fingers crossed for that. We're going to pivot away from football and back to watches for the final question. I love what you've done technically. I think that the style of the watches is very beautiful, actually. You mentioned Brazil's coach Carlo Ancelotti. I could see him wearing a Rudis Silva. I think that would look perfect on his wrist. But what about for people that like more futuristic styles? What about people that like something a bit edgier? Will you deploy this new technology on a new stylistic platform in the future? Or will we always get rid of silver in this more classical vein?
- [53:22]
Jacky Epito
If you pay a lot for a watch and you want to keep it on your wrist and you want to go a long way with your watch, you are proud of that. If you are too crazy in the design or if you make something too crazy, then you have the watch after two years on the Chrono 24. So it's also not the goal. The goal is not to be too classic, but to last on the wrist of our consumers. And even if you don't produce a lot, even if we are not a yearly tendance, we want to have. We want to keep the modernism with the colors, also with the technology, etc. But we don't want to be too extreme to make a buzz during six months and the next day you have another idea. We have the experience, for example, you remember, of Corona with the jolly Roget hat. I used to be in Kranz, Montana, in Switzerland, where a lot of rich people are like Italian. They show their Corom, Rosalie, Roger, etc. It was a Big Ten dance. But the next year they had another watch. So for Rudy Silva, it's better to keep going with the modernist architecture product, but not to be too extreme, to have an identity, but to be too last on the wrist of our customers and not to have 100 watches sold on Chrome 24.
- [55:12]
Rob Knutz
There we go. Progress and permanence in one package. Jackie, thank you very much for your time and thanks for sharing your stories about the brand and Otherwise, it's been a real pleasure to have you on the airwaves. If any of our listeners have any questions for Jackie or about Ruda Silva, please do get in touch. You know how to contact us. You can find us on Instagram @therealtime show or get in touch via the contact form on the website www.therealtime show. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.
- [55:53]
Alon Men Joseph
Sam.