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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Watch fans. And welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Knutz. Today I am joined by the co founder and editor in chief of 12 and 60 and the organizer of the Watch It Watch fairs, Joshua Claire Flagg, also known as a professional dabbler in many other bits and bobs of the watchmaking industry. So, Josh, welcome.
- [00:25]
B
Oh, thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
- [00:27]
A
So you are a busy man. You have been busy ever since we first met, which I guess was around 10 years ago now in, in a hotel in the middle of England at one of your events, which are populated by many exciting up and coming independent brands, many Brits, but other international brands as well, coming in for the fairs. Why don't you tell us how you got your start in watchmaking and what it is you love about the industry so much.
- [00:53]
B
All right, so how did I get started? Well, I've always loved watches since I was young. In fact, my, you could call it like my villain origin story is, do you remember the Argos Catal? And they always used to have an excellent watch section. And as, as a young boy, as I'm sure many other young boys did, you'd flick through the watch section, you'd dog ear the pages and circle the watches you wanted. And there was this amazing Casio which was a touchscreen data bank and it was 50 quid. So I used to wash the car every week. Mum and dad's car got two quid, two quid for that a week and, and other chores. Finally I saved up enough money and by the time I saved up enough money y catalog, a new one came out and that watch was not in there. So I was absolutely mortified. But I got another watch. I think it was like a really old one of the original G shocks. Absolutely adored it and loved it. But funny enough, I did find that exact same watch on ebay a few years back and I bought it just for my younger self. So. So, yeah, I've loved watches for a very long time, flipping watches all the time, as I'm sure many of the collectors do. So I was a web developer, I still am a sort of a developer by. And I thought, you know, I'm flipping so many watches, I might as well make a watch blog, because I can. And so yeah, I started sort of documenting every watch that I bought, writing reviews and eventually sort of it gained traction. So it was watch it all about to begin with and then joined forces with James Morvale who works currently for Pharah for 12 and 60. So yeah, that sort of like naturally progressed, got, got more and more popular. Watch brands started reaching out to me and by that point I was like, well this is, this is unusual because beforehand I was, it was purely self funded like many horrible addictions are. So yeah, having watch brands fund my addiction was, was superb to be honest. And so yeah, just like fumbled my way through really. So yeah, enjoyed Watches for a very long time. The Watch blog has been going since I launched it, so sort of 13 years and then moving on to the Watch events. So yeah, it was 2018, 2019, the first, first event which funny enough, if you go on the watchitfair website, watchitfair.com and you go to the about page, there is a picture of that very first fair and you are in it, Mr. Duds, looking young and resplendent. That's a long time passed. So that was just the case of back then. Nowadays there are a lot of Watch events, but back then there was none in the uk. And I thought why not? I did it just because I wanted to go to an event. So I was like, well, why not try and arrange one myself? So I got some great brands signed up. Christopher Wards, they've, they were really helpful back then as well. So they were like the big, the big ticket name. And yeah, I just hired a hotel room on the outskirts of Rugby where I live. And yeah, through my watch bargains, through forums and Facebook groups, whatever, just said, hey, come to this event and we'll see how it goes. And There was only 12 brands and it was just for an afternoon. But yeah, had loads of people come and people seem to enjoy it. So then unfortunately Covid happened. So I did have one in the works but obviously it got canceled and then post Covid ran. This will be the fourth one since COVID reopening this year. So yeah, I'm not a professional event organizer. I sort of bundled my way through as well. But yeah, every year it seems to be, seems to go down pretty well and, and people seem to enjoy it. So. So I thought, well, yeah, keep on, keep on going with it. So that's.
- [05:03]
A
I mean it comes across as very professional, I have to say. Like, I really feel like you do a great job and it takes a huge amount of effort to organize something like that and pull together so many brands. Your opening speech there gave me so many flashbacks to my youth. The Argos catalog. I must say I preferred the Argos Editions catalog for the lingerie section. I used to fumble my way through that when I was a young boy you would hide under unabashedly flicking through it on the bus to school. But yeah, it was, I mean, free. Free magazine. Wonderful. And rugby, what an interesting part of the world. I've only ever been out in rugby once on a stag do where a guy punched me in the face seven times without response at the bar because my friend was kissing his sister and I wasn't. I wasn't even doing anything. I was just trying to order a pint. But I responded to his aggression in the same way I always do when people punch me in the face, which happens a lot more often than I think I deserve. But obviously not by saying that wasn't very nice. And eventually he got tired and a bit perturbed by the fact I was just trying to drink my pint and wasn't bothered about my mate snogging his sister. She should have been grateful, to be fair. My mate's well sexy and he was way out of her league. But whatever.
- [06:12]
B
Rugby is like one of the most boring towns going. So first of all, I'm staggered that you had a stag do in rugby.
- [06:18]
A
We were on a canal boat, right? So we had. I don't know where we got the boat. We ended up in rugby. We just. We moored up and I think it was the night that Mark Selby was playing Ronnie o' Sullivan in one World Championship final that I think Selby eventually won. So we're all a bit pissed off to begin with and we went out and this was a stag do, like the mother of all stag dos. It was basically 13 former RAF psychos and me and my brother. And so it was a bad group of. That's why they were punching me and not one of the six foot five guys behind me because I was reachable. My face was like on a human, human level, but it was hilarious. It's great to. To go out with a gang like that in a brand new town and have such a fun time. So, I don't know, maybe my experience of rugby is completely, completely anomalous.
- [07:06]
B
But, yeah, it's cool. Well, thank you for sharing that. On behalf of rugby, I apologize for your face.
- [07:13]
A
Oh, no, no, no. My face actually gets better every time someone punches me. I had a real weird face when I was younger, but it's been punched into some kind of shape. You know, I got a. I got jumped years ago, got my nose broken and jaw dislocated and it really fixed my nose. I used to have an awfully pointy nose and now it's just a normal shape. So, you know, free cosmetic surgery, it's like, it's great, you know, it's just all these memories. Free Argos catalog, free nose job. Wonderful stuff. And so much diversity in your background and a lovely story of how you built your way, you say fumbled or bundled your way through the industry, but you've, you've done it like with some extreme grace and come out the other side of it as a figure that you know is well known in the industry, very well liked and also respected because you do do a good job. So how do you manage it? Where do you find the time?
- [08:03]
B
Breaking news? I don't really. So I just, I do have a day job of development. So the, the watch side of things is completely. I suppose it's a good thing that it is still purely a. What's it called, hobby. So. So I don't do it for sort of the money. I do it because I love watches which I suppose because of that I do still manage to find the time. So it's usually, yeah, any break I have during the day I'll like hop into my emails, hop into Instagram and then in the evenings and weekends I'll be doing bits and bobs as well, which can be exhausting for 13 years, non stop.
- [08:45]
A
Yeah. Do you have a relationship or friends or.
- [08:48]
B
Yeah, I have, I have a wife and I have two children and a dog. So it can be grief. Yeah, it can be pretty difficult balancing all these things, especially with, with Watch it sort of this kind of time frame, the six months before the event, you know, it's half, half of every year, planning, inviting all the watch brands, like finding venues, arranging stuff, sorting out tickets, reaching out, reaching out to lovely people like yourself to try and get some, you know, press coverage. It is a, it is quite a significant amount of work. But you know, I, I do it because I enjoy it and I always, my, my goal for the Watch event in particular is I want to build a Watch event that I would go to as a Watch fan first and foremost.
- [09:36]
A
Okay.
- [09:37]
B
So there's a number of all the other Watch events. Well, I can't say for certain like 100% but a majority of the other Watch events, they do have sort of business reasons behind them because, you know, at the end of the day, yeah, of course these people, it's a job to them. They need to get money to survive. So I, I feel quite freed by that in that, yes, I do make some money from it. I'm not gonna say I don't but it's not sort of like critical, it's more about the experience, it's more about getting watch brands that I would like to see because obviously I go there to enjoy myself as well, but also watch brands that I know that other people like me would like to, would want to come and see as well. And I just want to make sure it's a nice experience for the people who do come.
- [10:25]
A
So what kind of practical changes have you made in that regard? Like, do you provide like water for the brands? Do you have a cloak room for the visitors? I don't know. Like what things have you noticed as someone that visits watch events and have seen some things that you didn't like, what have you got rid of and what have you added to watch it?
- [10:42]
B
So one of the main things, it's such a simple thing, but I went to British Watchmakers Day, which is sort of like the, the number one watch event in the uk. You can't deny it, it's absolutely superb. The way they like get so many amazing brands in one room is, is amazing. And I thoroughly enjoyed myself. But three hours is not enough. I couldn't, I couldn't get around everyone. So by the time, so I, I was in the middle slot, I think it was 2 till 5 or 1 till 4, I can't remember, but I was in the middle slot and I was like, damn, I've got to get out now, that sucks. And I hadn't got around all the watch brands because I, I like to speak to everyone. Even if it's not a, even if it's not a watch that I will particularly be interested in buying, I still want to speak to, which is what I encourage all of my visitors to do that even if it's not someone, even if it's not a watch that particularly interests you, still speak to the, the founder, because you will. They have such amazing stories and they always have amazing reasons behind sort of what they've done. And there's always cool stuff that you may not have realized or appreciated. So first of all, no time limit. So it is just a one full day event which gives people plenty of time to sort of mill around, relax. It's a hotel, so there's a bar there as well. Have a drink, have a cup of tea, coffee, whatever, just take your time. Secondly, which I'm introducing for this year is sort of like a accompanying mini micro site kind of thing. So the plan is that people will be able to visit this website as they're going around, they'll be able to obviously the obvious things. There'll be a table plan there, there'll be a list of exhibitors but what they need to do is each exhibitor will have a QR code and then they can scan when they visited an exhibitor. They'll have little notes section so they'll be like oh, this watch was amazing at this brand. And then at the end of the day they can clay everything, email themselves sort of like their notes from the day and also giveaways throughout the. There'll be a giveaway like between half two and three at the end of the day. So that will be sort of powered by. We've got sponsored brands so they'll have to sort of scan them and then scan six of the four of the brands. So they need to be able to have scanned 10 brands to be entered into the giveaway and then sort of I'll be able to. To use that information to say to, to do like a random draw from that. So it sort of encourages. It's good for the brands because it encourages people to, to come to their, their stands. But additionally, for each brand on this accompanying app website thing there'll be recommended conversation starters because so many times I've when I'm at events a lot of people don't know sort of what to ask them or what makes this brand different or you know, just how to. They'll like look at a table and then just so sort of having these little like a few little very interesting questions for specific to each brand. The, the. The ex. The. The visitors can say oh I notice here, you know, it says to ask you about how your cases are made or whatever. I feel like that would be really handy for both sides to, to start having meaningful conversations. There'll be a little questionnaire like a little quiz as well so people can learn if they're not so to a watch event, maybe their first time or they're just getting into watches. Some watch events can be very, very like snobby and up themselves a little bit. So I just want to try and sort of make it as. As open as possible to anyone. So I feel like these little conversation starters, these like little quiz or something to help people learn the basics of watches or watchmaker making or whatever. I feel like I want to try and help people enjoy it as much as possible, you know. No. Yeah, no snobbiness the least.
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A
No barriers to entry.
- [14:51]
B
Yeah no barriers to entry. The least snobby of watch event in the uk.
- [14:56]
A
Josh, it's brilliant, absolutely brilliant to hear, you know I've speak. I speak to a lot of event organizers and we've had quite a few on the show in, in the past three years since we've been running. And I asked this question quite often. And I have to say, the best event I've ever been to with this in mind was Micro Praha, which is organized by Banu and Andra. And they, like you, had been to many events and picked up on some, you know, impediments, should we say, to enjoyment and eliminated them. And they. They put on a fair that was perfect for the guests and for the exhibitors. But very often I get generic answers. This was not a generic answer at all. This was incredible and what brilliant, genuine innovation for the way that people can interact with brands and engage with the event. Incentives, like you say, to visit different brands, good conversation, start as provided and also a draw where they can win something. I'm impressed, man. I love it. I think it's brilliant.
- [15:52]
B
Cool, man. Well, I hope it'll work out well. So, yeah, that's. That's sort of on my radar at the moment. Building that in the background. Ready for the Watch event. So. So, yeah, I suppose I better. Better do a bit of a. Bit of a thing about the Watch event. Come to the watch event June 20th. Please watch it fair dot com. So another thing that I like about Watch it Fair, being a midlander myself. All the other Watch events can be a bit of a headache to get to, especially London events. Obviously you got to pay for your ticket, you got to get there and then, you know, it ends up being a long day. It can be difficult to get to and especially if, like, someone comes from even further north than I am. You know, London can be a right track. So being in the Midlands, I feel it's perfect, you know, perfectly equidistant to the whole of the United Kingdom. So it's in a hotel in Solihull, which is on the east side of Birmingham. So great transport links. So, you know, next to the M42, M40, M1, M6, all of the motorways you could ever dream of, as well as, you know, good public transport links as well. Um, so, yeah, I sort of like, it's nice. It's. I also. This takes me back a bit as well. When I first started, I was like, why is there nothing going on in the Midlands? It's like, so weird. It's not even like a red bar. Birmingham, which I was quite surprised by, and I have thought about starting one bars, like. No, that's. That's One step too far. I. I don't have the brain space to. To manage that as well. So, yeah, I was like, I was. I'll take the Middle Earth if no one else is because obviously we have Watch Collectors Club, which I highly recommend getting involved with as well. Hamish is a wonderful guy. He looks after sort of Scotland. He's got the Glasgow Watch Show. It's got one in Manchester, one in Southampton. And then Nicholas from Fears is sort of owning Bristol as well. There's obviously Bristol Watch show and then there's the Classics in London too. So I thought, well, I might as well take the middle of England. So, yeah, the only one sort of in the Midlands, which I feel is like the best of all worlds. So everyone in England should come to my event.
- [18:12]
A
Controversial opinion. It's actually remarkable that Birmingham doesn't have a red bar, especially with the jewelry quarter, the BHI and the Birmingham University having a degree in horology. Dr. Rebecca Strothers and Craig Working There, two of the greatest watchmakers in Britain. I mean, how is that possible that Birmingham is. I mean, I'll say that Manchester's the second city of the uk or at least the capital of the north, but Birmingham is the second biggest city in the uk.
- [18:42]
B
Yeah.
- [18:43]
A
So what's going on?
- [18:44]
B
Yeah, I know. So calling, calling anyone who is from the Midlands, set up a red bar. Birmingham, please. So anyway, yeah, back to the. Back to the event. So I got like four. I've lost count at the moment, but it's between 40 and 45 watch brands. Probably like 43, 44, all under one roof. Got some real big hitters as well this year as well. So I'm really looking forward to having like, Maurice Lacroix there and I reviewed their Acon, Ventura or Ventura, and that was like, incredible. So I'm really looking forward to having them. I've got plenty of British brands as well. It's sort of. It is mainly focused on British brands as, as you would expect. But, you know, loads of the classic brands like Pinion Schofield got Bamford London coming as well. I mean, too many really to, To. To mention. So I would implore you listeners, please visit watchitfair.com to have a look at the lineup because you will be amazed by the goodies that we have on show. And like I say, it will be a wonderful experience for all involved as well. Hopefully I'm selling it as much as possible here.
- [19:59]
A
Yeah, you're doing, you're doing a good job. Yeah, I might have to get on a Plane and come out for one myself because it sounds brilliant and I guess like a hotel in Solihull. No offense to the, the region, but that's not going to be as expensive as a hotel in London. So if people do have to travel from further afield, they can stay the night before the event, right?
- [20:14]
B
Yeah, exactly. Actually, I had a look and it's less than 100 quid and it's really nice. It's a Voco by International Hotel Group. So I did previously work in hospitality for a hospitality web agency. And so it is, it is a very nice hotel. It's freshly, you know, freshly refurbed. The room itself is just one big, big room with the sort of a row of tables on the outside, row of tables on the inside. So you can't get lost, literally. You go in the room, make your way around, enjoy yourself, bar outside, that's all you need to know really. But yeah, the hotel itself is really lovely and yeah, rooms are 100 quid if you did want to stay there either the night before or the night of. So. So, yeah, exact. Exactly. Easy to get to, cheap to stay because it is, it isn't sort of, you know, in Mayfair or whatever.
- [21:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that's. Those, those are real concerns, you know, because a weekend in London certainly these days does not come particularly cheap. And if you're buying tickets for an event on top of that, then it can, you know, take the place of a, a charming city break with your. So you have to really justify it, I would say.
- [21:26]
B
Actually, funnily enough, I didn't even realize this, but it is the weekend of Father's Day, so I would highly recommend, you know, make it, make it an outing, a Father's Day outing with your, with your loved ones, with your family, with your children. Make, make a thing out of it.
- [21:47]
A
Do you have a kids area? You ever thought about that?
- [21:50]
B
I have not, but I will think about that and I will watch Crash.
- [21:54]
A
Yeah, you could have like, you know, massive like 3D printed movements that they can build together.
- [21:58]
B
Well, actually, yeah, I've been speaking to a mate who, who's well into his 3D printing and you know, you see like these jumbo sort of move working movements.
- [22:07]
A
I love them.
- [22:07]
B
Yeah, yeah. It would be amazing to get. That's. It might be a bit late in the day to sort of get them arranged.
- [22:12]
A
But you know what you could do? You could take like say let's take Giles Scofield, Giles Ellis of Schofield as an example. He'd be up for Something like this. He print out a black and white sheet of either a watch or, you know, like you. You know, the graphics he's got on the windows for store, something like that, and get the kids to color it in, you know, a coloring in competition, and then they can win like a Casio or something.
- [22:36]
B
Well, I've got. Oh, I might be speaking out of line, but I've got a sure watch coming. And Darren Schur has made this sort of like, kids watch, which is another one, really nice size for kids, really clear. Helps them learn time.
- [22:51]
A
Only about 100 quid retail. Those show watches, right?
- [22:53]
B
So they're amazing. Yeah, yeah.
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A
Have a word with him. Get a competition on the go for the kids.
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B
That's a great idea. Wow. This is. Yeah. And then maybe my kids will come and I'll just like dump them in the corner and say, please, off you go.
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A
Yeah, it could be very interesting. I mean, we do need to do something about, like, the next generation coming into watchmaking, because the amount of. Of news articles I've seen recently that professor children cannot read analog time anymore because they're just not taught in schools is absolutely shocking. So sure's doing a good job. More, More watch brands. And for anyone that knows the watch brands I'm involved with watch this space need to be thinking about bringing kids into this wonderful hobby. Talking of the hobby, though, let's, let's. You've done a good job selling the event. Don't worry. I think we got the message across. Okay, everybody, go to the website, book your tickets to Solihull, have a lovely weekend. Go to rugby for a night out.
- [23:45]
B
It's w. Punch in the face seven times.
- [23:47]
A
Punch in the face seven times. You said when you started collecting, you would buy, you would flip, you would buy, you would flip. And I'm guessing, like many of us in the early days of our collecting journey, that was because you wanted to experience as many different types of watches as possible, and you were financially constrained, so you couldn't just hoard all those pieces at once. Has your collecting habit changed since then?
- [24:09]
B
Yes, it has. And unfortunately. Well, fortunately for me, but. So because I run 12 and 60, I do get sort of free watches sent to me, so. So I get to scratch that itch without. Without having to pay money. So, yeah, and recently I. I did sort of. Well, I say recently, a few years ago, I sort of, obviously I amassed a huge, huge collection of watches and I did sell many of them to fund sort of my grail, which is a Omega Planet ocean, which I'D been dreaming of for, for many, many years. So that's sort of like one of I, I.
- [24:51]
A
Which one?
- [24:52]
B
It was the, it's the blue 38.5 mil Planet Ocean 600 with the sort of the ceramic dial, the model before the current one. Because obviously they've, they've just recently had a bit of a design overhaul. So I didn't even know it came in 38 and a half mil until I started like, properly looking into it. I was like, oh, I'd love a plan, but they are a bit big, you know, the 42.42mil quite thick, chunky boys were. And I found out, wow, they got a smaller one. Absolute fallen in love with it. Perfect size for me. And I've got S P300 as well. So I am a bit of a, an Omega Omega fanboy. So now, I suppose, yes, if I was to buy my own watch, it would be fewer, high, higher quality two watches because, you know, it can't wear 40 watches, let's face it. So, yeah, I am, I am. My two sides, really. I still absolutely adore handling as many watches as I can, but the ones that I personally buy, I sort of, I'm more considered, I suppose, I would say. But funnily enough, one of the ones that I do want to buy is one of the Clemence watches. Unfortunately, Clements can't make it to my event, but I saw spoke to Tom British Watchmakers Day and I was blown away by the quality of watches for I think about 600 quid. I was like, oh, yeah. So when I buy another watch, when I personally buy one, I'll. I'll probably go for a Clemence or also I really want to try Monter as well from America. I haven't seen or handled one, but I can. I just hear good things about, about them.
- [26:38]
A
You've got a type. I mean, because I was really impressed by the build quality of Clemens, like the finishing, especially for the price point. I love the yellow dial one. That's my favorite. Beautiful. But there's. Isn't that like a really cool like segmented multicolored dial or something with orange and teal and white? Yeah, really fun, you know, and brands like that and like Bocroft, where our mutual friend Lucy is now working, you know, they make a really good product for not much money and Monter is the same. I've had had many experiences with them in hand and you just find yourself wondering why certain products from other bigger brands cost exactly what they cost. And we know it's branding it's marketing, it's storytelling and those things are essential. They have to be built into the cost somewhere. But if you're interested in product, you can't go wrong with those brands.
- [27:21]
B
Nice. Yeah.
- [27:23]
A
So unfortunately, because this has been a very interesting and information laden episode, we have to wrap it up because you're a busy man. You have a call to attend immediately. So it was short and sweet. But Josh, thank you for your time. Thanks for sharing the information about. Watch it. If people haven't read 12 and 60 before, go check that as. Check that out as well. It's a very great source of independent information. And yeah, obviously we have to get you back on the air at some point in the near future to talk a little bit more together because it was a pleasure. So thank you very much. If our audience has any questions for Josh and you know how to get in touch, you can contact us via the usual channels on Instagram therealtime Show or via the contact form on the official website www.therealtime.show. we'll be back soon with more quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.