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- [00:06]
Alommen Joseph
Hi and hello, Watch fans and welcome to another edition of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alommen Joseph and our resident provocateur, David Vaucher, calling in all the way for Fontainebleau. I am very happy to welcome to the studio my longtime friend Michel Nieto, the CEO of Renault Teixier. Bonjour, Michel.
- [00:33]
Michel Nieto
Hello, Alan, how are you?
- [00:35]
Alommen Joseph
I'm very good. Thank you so much for making the time. They said now with David and me, you and I had actually a great relationship when we both were working with Beaumont. And I was so happy to see that you joined this amazing new brand with two industry legends a year and three months ago. How has it been so far, Michel?
- [01:00]
Michel Nieto
We are doing really, really, really well. But just before explaining that we are what we're doing and what we achieved till now, probably I can explain how this was innovated. One year ago, roughly April 2023, I met Dominic Renaud with a friend, Jean Lucarin, who is actually our chairman. And we met Dominique. And it was really interesting to me to meet her and to have the chance to spend few hours with Dominique and to know him deeply and to hear from him what he did in fact in his career, which is amazing. His career is just absolutely amazing. And Dominique Renault, I can tell you, because people I met this year, and collectors from worldwide, they said to me, you know, Michel, Dominic is a legend in the watch industry. I said, yes, I know, I know it's a legend. So we start to talk with to Dominique and Dominique explained us the projects he had, what he did in the past, recent past. And he started to talk about two projects, one for the Tempus Forget Watch and a second one for the movement they create with Julien Dixie, who only watch the unique piece of this perpetual calendar, secular calendar. So it was really, really a fact that Julien and Dominique, they knew each other. And Dominique was extremely proud to say that together, Julien and himself did these two projects. Amazing project. And so we decided to meet also Julien. And in fact we said, but guys, you are already an entity. You're both personalities are an addition of competencies, different competencies. You are already together, you two, you are doing something together. But why don't you create your own brand? A brand made of two watchmakers, like Patek Philippe, like Audemars Piguet, like if you want, like all others, Vacheron Constantin, the past two watchmakers, two people, different competencies, joined their forces to create these amazing brands, actually international brands. So they said, yes, it's something which is logic which is absolutely the next step. And they said, yes, we are really excited to do so. They start and we start to create this company, and we create the company. In fact, in August 2023, Julien and Dominique were so excited to create something different. Something different in terms of architecture, of movement, but also something different in the watch industry. So if I have to describe the project, I will describe immediately the two watchmakers. Julien Tixier, master of watchmaking, even if he's 31 years old, he works as watchmakers 200 years ago, with tradition, with the same toolings these watchmakers 200 years ago were using to do themselves manually handmade all the components and all the parts of the movement. So Julien can transform normal pieces in exceptional components, exceptional movements. Dominique, in fact, is 65 years old. Dominique Renault, he sees the future. Even if he's 65 years old, he's really young. In his head, Dominique Renault is a man who can. And really I can testimony. I can say it after one year, Dominic has one big idea. Every five single minutes. Every five minutes he can have a new patent with Dominic Renault. So Dominique is just not thinking like you and I, Adam. Dominique is thinking with a 3D view in his head and he can see all the mechanisms in three dimensions. He said. So Dominique said, okay. Julien said, we want an architecture of movement different than other independents. I asked for a micro rotor myself. Both of them say micro rotors. You know, they are not really efficient, not enough efficient to wind the spring barrel. It's difficult to fully wind the spring barrel within a day. And Dominic said, yes, it's true, but probably we can do something. The day after, Dominic came with this new idea, which is really a big, big step in watchmaking. It's not a revolution, it's not a big complication, as you can imagine. Two tourbillons, three tourbillons, four tourbillons, ten tour beyond. I don't know. It's something which so, so important it touch a fundamental of the watch, of the, of the watchmaking, of the, of the, of the watches and of the watch movement. This fundamental is energy. Energy. So he came with this idea to improve the winding power of the micro rotor through a inertia wheel in the center in platinum, which is launched by the micro rotor and the spring in the middle. It's like a whip to project all the lost energy of the micro rotor into this, into this inertia. Well, and then this inertia wheel will continue to turn because it's round until to turn. To add from we have today figures as 30 to 40% more winding power to the barrel. So this is how it started.
- [07:22]
Alommen Joseph
I have a very difficult intersection as a journalist in this interview, because I have three amazing parts I want to discuss. Dominique's one, Julian's one and yours. But out of respect for the namesakes of this amazing new startup, haute luxury watch brand, let's do Dominique Renault. Those of you that say, hey, that name looks familiar or sounds familiar, if I say renault et papi 1986, if I'm correct, then it should ring a lot of bells because those two legends, I have to use that word again, were the first independent caliber creators and became infamous because Audemars Piguet first bought a quarter, I think of the company for a very long time. They developed a lot of things for Audemars Piguet, but a lot of other amazing watch brands. And then at a certain point, Audemars Piguet incorporated fully and Dominique ventured out. I remember he made about eight years ago, I think, a rectangular watch. Michelle, you need to help me here. Is that where he met Julian eight years ago? Because I believe when Julian was 23, he already hooked up with Dominic and they did things together on horological level.
- [08:48]
Michel Nieto
So let me explain you this story because this is really an interesting point. So you're right, Alan. This dominique create from 86 to 2000, roughly this company with Giulio Papi. And they create because as you said, this was a unique company, able to develop, produce and deliver high end complicated movements to brands, to brands such as IWC, Jaeger, LeCoultre, they developed the first Richard Mille. Also some complications on chiming watches for AP and for a lot of other brands. But when Dominique launched his own brand, yes, Julien was 23 years old and the brand Dominique Renault, in fact he launched a watch called the Dr.01. Dr.01. The first watch was sold 1 million in 5 minutes. And there were 15 orders for the watch. Not at 1 million, but less, but very expensive. So this Dr.01 created by Dominique, it's like having together in a small volume a laboratory dedicated to movements. It's a statement. This watch is not a watch. This watch is probably the most precise watch in terms of isochronism. This watch work at, if I remember well, it's the frequency of the balance is 10 hertz. So usually watches on movements they work between two and a half hertz to 5 hertz, but 10 hertz, it's something totally amazing. If I go, I can go in details, deeply, more deeply in details, if you want the balance wheel do not rotate as other balance wheel on 300 degrees. It rotates something like, if I remember well, 15 to 20 degrees, but a very, very high frequency. And this is also helped by the fact that all this pivot, all these axes in fact move on two blades. And these two blades allow the system to work at this high frequency without nearly zero friction. So if you go deeply and all the watchmakers, big names, they were so surprised by this phenomenon, which the Dr.1. And one of these watchmakers was a young guy called Julien Tixier. And he went to hear conference from Dominique because he wanted to know a little bit more what was this product, which was not a watch, was something so strange. It was a statement in the watch industry. So he met Dominique and he wanted to know more. So he went to a second conference. We met again Dominique and then they became. The two of them became friends, really friends. Julien was so, so amazed by what he saw on this Dr.01 and so impressed. He wanted to meet the master, the legend. And they became friends from that time. When Dominique Renaud was asked to develop the Tempus Fugit and lend the pure L'Amri, he called his young friend Julien to do the components, to do the movements, because Julien is a master, as I said before. So this was the meeting and how they met, the two of them.
- [12:45]
Alommen Joseph
And besides being friends and associates and now business partners, is Dominique also a mentor to Juliet?
- [12:57]
Michel Nieto
This is a good question. A mentor, yes, because Julien respects and admire Dominique on all the big complications he did in the past and he will continue to do. Yes, there is a kind of transmission, but in fact, Dominique admires also a lot Julien. These two are complementary. I must say that sometimes Julien teach Dominique on some special things. And the contrary is also true. Dominique teach also Julien and some others, all what is linked to movement, complications and new ideas. The mentor is Dominique, for sure. And when we talk about beveling, finishing angles, polishing of components, the master is Julien.
- [13:59]
David Vaucher
I've got a question on this line. I'm going to give an example first and it's going to lead to a point. But in fashion, Ralph Lauren is known not just for Ralph Lauren, but also for being a training ground for lots of other designers. And as I was researching for this interview, I saw that Renault Papille was like that. Some of the greatest watchmakers currently came out of Renault and Papilla. And it sounds to me like what you're describing in the relationship that you just told us about between Julien Dominique was that there was this kind of pursuit of excellence and passing things on. So I was wondering if you could go into maybe how big your team is now, how you hire, the types of things that you look for. And do you expect the company you're with now to have perhaps that same legacy of really being a proving ground for the future generation of talent?
- [14:52]
Michel Nieto
What you're saying is absolutely part of our mission from the day one. The philosophy of this company is made of several things. So first of all, you have the official company, it's called the manufacture Dominique Renault. And then under this manufacturer, Dominique Renault, you have different things. The first, what is in fact the finalization of what we did this year is the brand Renault. Within this brand Renault, our goal is really the transmission today. And we just started in August last year, just started. So no movement, developed nothing, no design, nothing. We hired this year already six watchmakers. These watchmakers were trainees from Julien, most of them, five of the six. All of these six watchmakers, they have less than 25 years. So they are young, coming out from school and passionate. What we want to do is really to bring these watchmakers to a level as Dominique did and Julio Papi did with Renault and Papis when Cronenfeld, when Mr. Forsey, Mr. Greubel, Carole Forestier, Pieck Marin and others, Andreas Treller joined Renault Papille. At that time, they were also young watchmakers. And within this place, special place, Julio Papill and Dominic Chrono, but both of them, they put a kind of a positive energy of transmission, but also to let them grow by themselves. They were free to create, free to do an amazing, amazing product. So here, the philosophy of Dominic Renault or manufacture Dominic Renault and Julien Tixe is absolutely in the same philosophy, the same way of thinking. He is to train young watchmakers to be fully, fully to become an expert, not a watchmaker, but an expert in watchmaking to probably a few years from now, they would create their own brand. Probably not all of them, but probably, I don't know, 50% or 60% of the people we hire, the young watchmakers will, I'm sure in few years from now, they will probably create their own brand. These watchmakers, these young watchmakers. When we start to say guys around now in the watch industry, we want to hire watchmakers, they came, I don't know. In three weeks we had these six watchmakers okay to join, not okay to join the company, but it was because of Dominique Renault was here, Julien Renaud was here. And also we explained them that their job will not Be just to assemble movements. Their job will not be only to do, I don't know, heiklage, adjusting function of the movement, but they will produce themselves. All the finishing, everything will be done by themselves. Each movement and each watch will be assembled by one watchmaker. More than that, even if the brand is a Renault Dixie on the dial and on the back case, they, these watchmakers, they will put their signature, their signature, individual signature on each movement. Because to us, the watch created and assembled and produced for a client. The client has to know who was the watchmaker who did it. And it's not a production. You know, you produce, I don't know, 200 pieces each and then another 200 pieces. No, each watch, each movement will be produced by one watchmaker, will be finished by one watchmaker. Because the wheels, we have CNCs internally to produce the wheels, the bridges and then all the finishing, beveling, hand bevelings, all these angles, everything will be done by one watchmaker.
- [19:29]
David Vaucher
I think that's fantastic. And I don't know if this is more of a question or perhaps just a comment, but it's interesting that you mentioned Grubel Forsey, because it got me thinking about a project I heard about probably about 10 years ago now. I don't know if maybe you or alon are familiar with it, but there's a foundation called the Time Aon foundation, and they had a program called Nissan Studemont, and the idea was basically to, as you said, transmit knowledge. And so Grubel4C teamed up with a professor from a watchmaking school in France, actually, and completely with hand tools created. I think it was 10 watches that were going to be auctioned off. But the main idea was to conserve this knowledge of how to make these watches with these traditional tools. And so I suppose where I'm getting at is that if in fact this reflex was first learned with Ronau Apepi years ago, and then they sort of took this on, I think that's very promising in terms of, okay, your mission now is to train the next generation. And maybe watchmaking isn't dead. Traditional watchmaking, it seems like there will always be that core of people carrying it forward.
- [20:32]
Michel Nieto
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So we are new in the. We just launched our company last year. We presented the first movement, totally finished the first watch in March this year. So eight months later. But just to come back on this transmission, so the project of I mentioned, Manufacture Dominique Chrono below, Manufacture Dominique Chrono, there is a brand called Renautixier. Within this brand Renault, they Are young watchmakers to be trained. And we hope nearly sure that one day they will create their own brand.
- [21:16]
Alommen Joseph
Okay.
- [21:17]
Michel Nieto
On top of that, and this is the first time I mention it to someone external to the brand. We are creating an academy, Dominique Renault Academy. We have the structure, we have the head. I will not tell you today, but the head of this Dominique Renault Academy is a lady, a young woman. She has his own brand, high end brand, independent. And she will take the lead of this Dominicano academy to train people on different aspects, like beveling, like polishing, like finishing of all the components. Because we have a lack of people today in Switzerland to do such kind of finishing. So this is a part, but we also create within this academy lessons to let high hand watchmakers. They want to know how to create a complication, what are the ways and what is the philosophy of Dominique, how he creates his complications, how we think we have also so the potential of having our head of construction, the technical director called Alexand Bunion, who is the technical designer for the movements, to be part of this training and to have a masterclass for high end watchmakers. They want to know the next step or they want to know the high complications. They want to be interested in thinking and understanding how these high complication watches are made, the movements. So we are completing now what will be within this academy. So this is the second project. So in fact transmission is key for Dominic. So this is part of the transmission and we are also creating a new foundation. Dominique Renault Foundation. I will explain you in probably a few weeks from now. Few, few weeks from now. I cannot tell you today because it's not signed, but this will be a new foundation, different than others in the watch industry. And believe me, it's totally different. It's also to express Dominique Renault character, Dominique Renault behavior. Dominique Renault is someone who teach the others who give. Dominique Renault gives more than he received. Dominic Renault is happy when he see that what he gave to you makes you happy. Really? So, and the fact that Dominic is helping people, this is how he lived the entire life. Dominic is also trying to transmit and to help and to push young people. So the foundation, these values will be within the foundations. And the mission of the foundation will be such kind of things.
- [24:21]
Alommen Joseph
Dear listeners, you heard it first on the Real Time show. That's amazing. And it shows how much Dominique and all of you want to give back to the community. So I also loved the fact that besides the foundation that is being formed, is the academy already up and running or will that be part of that foundation you're talking about?
- [24:41]
Michel Nieto
No, the Academy will not be part of the Foundation. The Academy will be part of one of these silos from Dominique Renault manufacturer Dominic Renault. As Renault Tixier is one silo, you have a second in parallel which will be the Academy and the foundation will be a side not within Dominique Renault, but it will be a Dominique Renault Foundation.
- [25:08]
Alommen Joseph
So the Academy is not up and running yet.
- [25:11]
Michel Nieto
We signed the contract with the head of the Academy yesterday. So she's here today by our headquarters to meet Dominique more and to try to start to build what will be the Academy.
- [25:27]
Alommen Joseph
Congratulations. And you heard that as well as first on the Real Time show. So we have to have her. I understand it's a lady her on the show because we have a lot of watchmakers, aspiring watchmakers and a lot of creatives listening to this podcast. Stay tuned. By going to renaultixia's website, which is R E N A U D T I x I e r.com is that the best source for them to stay updated? Michel?
- [25:59]
Michel Nieto
Instagram is the best source because our website was just created to say guys, we exist, we are here. So we need to improve our website a lot and it's not always updated as we update and we push informations about us in Instagram, others social networks.
- [26:24]
Alommen Joseph
So that handle is at Renault Dixie. So R E N A U D dot T I X I E R so going quickly to Julian. Dear Michelle, if I may, if I do the Math correctly, he's 31 today. He started working hands on with Dominique eight years back. So what was he 23 when they started working already together?
- [26:49]
Michel Nieto
Absolutely correct. Yes.
- [26:51]
Alommen Joseph
So we could say that he's a genius because I always make the example of watchmakers with doctors. You need four years of basic training. You basically don't know anything. You can do a bit of quartz movements and a simple ETA movement. You need four more years for complications, another four years to go to hotel luxury level. So up to 12 years. So is he a a wonder child and where is he from and where did he start working? Because I believe he has ties to Laurent Ferrier.
- [27:20]
Michel Nieto
Absolutely. He started with Laurent Ferrier, but his career was also with us some independence to work for other brands. But really started, I would say his career started with Laurent Ferrier just to come back to him. But really you have to, if you have the chance and the time one day, Alan to come here and some of your collectors, some people, they want to really know Julien, his workshop is made of is probably 30 square meters, very, very small. He has in La Vallejou? Leu. And within this 30 to 35 square meters, he has all the machines, everything, everything to create and to make 100% of all the compounds. Even the rubies he cut himself the rubies, he polished himself the rubies. Even the case he can do himself from a bar of a platinum case. So just to let you know how Julien is a brilliant talent at a level probably five to 10 watchmakers have the same level in the watch industry. Julien, the day before Watches and Wonders. This year we had our prototype finished. He spent 1,000 hours just to make the movement himself. 1,000 hours nonstop. Saturday, Sunday and night. He worked on the. On the movement. And we had this case we under a sapphire glass. And the supplier was not able at that time, just before Watches and Wonders, to deliver us a domed sapphire glass. And we had a flat sapphire glass. Julien called me on Sunday morning, said, Michel, we will not present this. We can't present this case with this flat sapphire glass on our watch. Julien, it's impossible to get dom sapphire glass. You know that we will get these supply glasses in three weeks from now. But tomorrow watches and wonders start. So he said, okay, I will do one. So he took a piece a block of sapphire he has in his workshop. And he engine himself with a small machine he has in his workshop a perfect dome sapphire glass. To me, it was the first time I hear that the watchmaker did himself a sapphire glass. So Julien is able to do 100% of a watch. All collectors with the possibility to visit Julien Tixier workshop. All of them. And yesterday I was with three collectors from Macau there in La Vallecho to visit Julian. All of them are totally amazed by this small workshop, which is. It seems to be a cow. In fact, it's not. Everything is in his place. Julian is using machines and toolings from the past. From the past. When I say the past is the machines. They are 200 years old to 100 years old. These are antique machines. As watchmakers, they worked in the past. So Julien is a real magician. Can you imagine to start to produce yourself alone in your workshop in December and two and a half months later, the movement is finished and fully decorated at a level that only few watchmakers can play in that league of finishing. So Julien, as I said at the beginning, has gold in his fingers, in his hands. It transforms everything in gold.
- [31:30]
Alommen Joseph
That is amazing, because I've never heard a watchmaker actually being a lapidarist. So cutting stones. So thank you for sharing that. And going back to what David said about The E on projects led by Gruber Folsey. I don't indeed know many today that can do a full caliber and watch from A to Z. Now I want to pivot quickly to you, Michel, before we talk about the first chapter of the brand Renault xia, which is chapter Monday, because you're very modest and I know you don't want to talk about it, but I do want to put you on a pedestal because I was very young in the industry when we met and you were a amazing person. You are a mensch, as we say in Yiddish. Although you were working for a big group full of, I call them Excel managers, and that's not a positive term. You were jolly, you were a people's guy, you were always lovely, especially to a junior guy like me. So I quickly want to run down your very long CV, starting at ITA, the caliber manufacturer in 1990 you went to Richemont, did several things there, including working at Cartier, if I remember correctly. Yeah, and you might not remember, we also briefly worked together at IBEN before you went to Beaumont.
- [32:56]
Michel Nieto
I remember.
- [32:57]
Alommen Joseph
So. So that was actually amazing times. We did not work together at Bulgari because you ran actually the watch business unit before Guido Tereni, if I'm not mistaken.
- [33:10]
Michel Nieto
No, no, no, this is a mistake. It's not correct. I work. My boss was Guido Tereni, boss was Guido Tereni. I was hired by Mr. Trapani, the owner of Bulgari, because they were just launching and they wanted to be important and real in the watchmaking industry. So they bought Roten Gentard, they bought a dial factory and a strap metal bracelet factory. And they needed someone to lead, to have the responsibility of all the operations, meaning all the operations within the watch business unit. So my boss was Guido Terrani and I was in charge. I was a COO of the watch business within Bvlgari, and with Guido as my boss. A nice guy, really nice guy. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant man.
- [34:08]
Alommen Joseph
Also, Guido is fantastic. At Bulgari, their visionary. Going from there, you went to another Italian infused Rotologeri, Brandi Grisogono, a stint in consultancy at Meta Luxury, and then to a brand we love very much is hyt, where you not only ran operations, but also helped out the Ter Flex Preciflex, as I say correctly, and then as well, and then finally at where maybe you belong, which is the note, because it's very rare to have a CEO with technical background. Mostly it's sales guys. So please, I'll shut up. Tell us a little bit about your journey as a. As a person, why do you love watches? And why do you always kept working in the watch industry so long?
- [35:02]
Michel Nieto
So I have to admit to recognize that and to admit that I tried several times to escape of the watch industry. But it's impossible to escape the watch industry because watches are emotional, are sensual. I had a few years ago a talk with a marketing guy from BMW thinking to do a project together with one of the companies I work for and the head of this marketing at BMW. One of the head of the marketing said, but Michel, you have a chance. You are lucky in the watch industry because you can touch your product every day, you can wear your product every day, you can sleep with your product. Imagine myself sleeping within my car, touching my car. It would be strange. It's an emotional, essential relationship with a watch. So that's why it's difficult to escape from this industry. It's also questions of people. It's not only a question of product or of business. When I decided with Jean Luc to really put all the back office structure to help these two watchmakers to be free to create. Julian Dominique are free. So I said, okay, we will put in place. We will put in place a professional organization in sales with an international director who is a Giancarlo Mantuano. I worked with him at hyt. Giancaro Mantuano is really recognized worldwide as one of the best sales guy. Not sales guy, but someone who can really understand the market and help the clients to choose and to be sure that the watches that he propose are of the right ones. We had a professional structure we put in place here, not only for us, but also for others in our mission of the manufacture. Dominique Renault. The mission also is to help other small independents or other brands to create movements for them to help them. For instance, we can help them in distribution. What we are doing already with one brand, we can help them to really think about their strategy in a long term view, to set a financial plan to. We can help them in marketing, in pr. We have in house all these competencies with professional people with a huge experience in these different fields. So the interest of working with this within the watch industry, as I said, is linked mostly 80% to people. At my age, 58 years old today, I will not work with a company not being close to the people. Really it's a partnership here, the watchmakers and myself, we are at the same level. It's a horizontal level, it's not a vertical level. We know we do not work as a structure with a boss and Someone who works for a boss. Everybody is part of the team. So here we have a team with players and everyone has his role and we can share and discuss and talk and have the opinion of everybody for each project we have. So it's a question of people more than a question of passion for the watch industry. Even if, as I said, I can't escape from this industry, I love it.
- [39:01]
David Vaucher
So let's talk passion about watches and this one's going to be a little bit of a two part question. So the first one is we'd really like you to walk the listeners through not just the first watch itself, but also the concept because there's a days of the week theme to that and we'd love to hear more about that. The other question that I have for you is more along the market side. So the watch industry currently as a whole, I think we can agree, is going through a bit of a rough patch. And so given that you are selling a premium product for a premium price, it would seem to me that that's a relatively crowded space to launch into. Even though we can talk about product justifying the price from a market point of view, it seems like a tough decision. So can you walk us first through the watches themselves and then perhaps you know, why this particular watch at this particular time in this current watch market?
- [39:56]
Michel Nieto
So from the beginning in this company, when we, when we talked to Dominique Renault and to Julien, it was said that the company will have the mission to have a collection of movements limited, of watches limited. We will have a philosophy of the days of the week. So the Monday is limited to 180 movements. Whatever the dial is, whatever the case is, we will only produce 180. Then the Monday will be finished. We'll introduce the Tuesday. We have already two in a working process with the technical designer, with Julien Tixier and Dominique Renault. They are working on the Tuesday and Wednesday. The others we have, the ideas we have. Dominic said, I know exactly what we will do, in which direction we will go. So this was part of the philosophy, a collection. It was a week, a week start in the morning, finished at night at 12pm so it's a philosophy of having a vision to set new improvements in the watch movements. Improvements like the first one, Monday, which is improvement of the winding power of a micro rotor with this inertia wheel in the center in platinum. So this is the philosophy, philosophy of collection. You know, to develop a product, it takes sometimes a few years. So having these seven ideas, this collection will take a long time. But after that after these seven ideas, seven projects, what will became the brand? We don't know yet. But our idea is now to work on these seven days of the week.
- [41:44]
David Vaucher
You as the CEO have to balance two things. You have to balance the creative vision and frankly capabilities. In this case, because the watchmakers are so gifted. So you have to balance that with the market reality that at the end of the day the business has to make money. So I mean, what's your view on the current state of the market? And where do you see the fit for this project at this moment?
- [42:05]
Michel Nieto
Okay, so you know, in such kind of period, when it's a cycle in the watch industry, you know that as I know it, it's a cycle five, seven years, eight years, goes up and down, up and down. In these cycles you have cycles like also in aesthetics, big watches, seven years later, thin watches and then big watches and big case. In this period we decided to create and to launch renaultixie. We decided to create some other projects. I cannot talk to you today. We decided to create this academy. We decided to take this to create a foundation. We hired here now 14 people are working for the company. We are putting in place a lot of efforts also in the headquarters. You will see, we. We will move next year in some new headquarters. Amazing place. This is the best period. Also to create a different way to work with independence, to work with, to put in place a kind of a network, a hub of competencies open to others to help these younger watchmakers, this young independence, to have a professional structure behind them. So us, big brands, what do they do? They cut communication, investments, they reduce the structure they try to fit to what's the P and L is ask for a group here. What do we do? We do the opposite. I travel all around the world this year, three times. We invest in people, we. We invest in creation. We produce and we delivered what we said we will deliver this year. I said we will deliver this year. The first watches, having just started last year, the first movements will be delivered. The first watches will deliver from 15 to 20 watches this year. So few months after having created this company, next year all the quantities will be delivered. We are launching a brand to. We already have. I have to say something like 58 watches sold in three months at that price, 79,000 Swiss francs, which is already something interesting. And we continue to have people ordering. The problem we have today is to deliver the quantities. We will never go up to 2,000 pieces a year. We'll stick to from 60 watches a year to in three years. From now, 100 watches a year at that level and next year we will introduce new animations at a higher level, higher level, with hard work on everything. So yes, we took the opportunity to invest instead of reduce our cost because we are sure that for such kind of products and believe me, I met a lot of collectors this year, they love this product. They really love the concept of the factory, of this combination of Julien Tixier and Dominique Renault. They know that what they will have is really, really something special qualitatively, but also in terms of, of concept. The movement is so different than others. So it was not a bet, it was just a way to say, guys, instead of reducing the speed, reducing our investments, we accelerate and we increased our investments and we increased the projects.
- [46:01]
David Vaucher
That's fantastic. I love hearing that. Your order books are full and before I turn it over to Alon, I know he had a question to ask you. I've got one follow up which you sort of got me thinking as you were speaking. I don't know if it's, if we can call it a trend, but there's been a few instances of very high end independence really trying to go for more of a volume play. So I'm thinking of Hajime Asaoka, the Groenfeld brothers I saw recently launched. I don't know if sub brand is the right word, but the idea is to sell more of a volume of watches but still have some of that, that magic of the original brand. And look, I'm not asking you if you're going to do that. I think in any case it's probably too early to say, but what's your view on this sort of, this marriage of the very high end with the very low end.
- [46:49]
Michel Nieto
I will not comment on what others are doing. They have their own strategy, so I will not say it's good or not good. They have their own strategy. We have, we have in the history, in the recent history some brands, they did so past years and recent, past years and they were successful not having, not having a damage to their high end products. So I don't know, I don't want to go in this. To me what is important to us is really to continue and with the brand, Julien, Julien Dixie and Dominic Renault Dixie, this brand will go up, will go, will stay. We will increase our artwork because we have probably, you know, the case is totally on 360 degrees, hand engraved by Coralie Mercier, hand engraved. And within the, in, in, in the movement we have a piece called a component called the Ratchet which is on top of the spring barrel. The barrel. And this ratchet is hand engraved by Coralie Mercier. And then we have also Marie Constant, she did the full fire enamel on this piece. So we will continue to add hard work, hard work in our, in our watches in the future. So next year we have three projects, three projects with some artists, with three artists to create amazing, amazing things on the movement but more in the artwork like engraving, enamel and other particularities. Our others way of putting art in our products, on our products. I'm sorry, I didn't answer to your question.
- [48:55]
David Vaucher
No, no, I completely understand. And I guess I should have mentioned the most obvious case, which is the moonswatch. Right. I mean there's an ongoing debate in terms of what that means for both brands. So I completely respect your point of view and I think it's fantastic to say this is our lane and we're sticking to it. And yeah, ultimately I think there's things you just can't replicate. What you just described, I don't think can be replicated, you know, at a lower price just to be sort of mathematical about it without serious compromises. So no, I completely respect it and I appreciate the insight. So, so thank you for that.
- [49:27]
Michel Nieto
Okay, thank you, Michel.
- [49:29]
Alommen Joseph
Swiss always say interesting price. They mean to say that it's a bargain. And although 79,000 Swiss francs is hefty, it isn't for what you guys are creating, the artwork you're creating, very practical. If somebody listens and falls in love, where can they register to obtain a Renault CA watch? So are all 180 Monday sold out or is it still available on Monday? A slot for a Monday.
- [50:01]
Michel Nieto
So just before answering to a question, Alan, I just have to mention something. Today some independents, brilliant independents, really brilliant independence. If you order a watch to them at that level of finishing as we have, they do not have the structure. So they take the order and they probably deliver it to you in two years or three years or more. Coming from, with my background, I really set and defined and invest to be able to deliver what we said in six months. You place an order, you will get your watch in six months. So this is the, this is why we have six watchmakers, this is why we have CNCs, this is why we have a supply chain manager and so on and so on and so on. So we have a professional structure as a big brand, but delivering products handmade, like at that level of finishing, at that level of complication, at that level of as big and strong independents are doing, but we can deliver. So today, to Answer your question. There are still. We just started. So As I mentioned, 58 watches sold, so there's still 120 to deliver in the coming one and a half year, two years maximum to deliver and already pre sold.
- [51:41]
Alommen Joseph
Or can somebody still register for a Monday?
- [51:44]
Michel Nieto
No, no, no, no. They are not pre sold. There are 100, more than 100 not pre sold.
- [51:53]
Alommen Joseph
Okay. Did you become a direct consumer brand or will you work with retailers?
- [51:59]
Michel Nieto
No, we work with retailers, with partners. I can mention them. We work with Cellini in New York, with Jeremy Oster Hoster in Denver. We work with Perpetual in Dubai. We work with the lavish Attic in Hong Kong. We work with Swiss Prestige in Taiwan, Taipei, we have our own structure in Tokyo. We are starting to talk to others in Italy and in other countries, but not. We are not really looking for more retailers. Probably adding three to four more in the future because our goal is really to work with them as partners. And why don't we go direct? Because you know, direct, it's like having the potential, the possibility to touch a first circle of collectors. Touching a first circle of collectors. Yes, we can go direct. The goal is to be sure that these collectors trust us. If I go with Leo Adams in New York, Cellini, Cellini store. Cellini is recognized as being one of the best retailers in the world. And all his clients are collectors. They trust Leon Adams, they trust him, they trust Jeremy, they trust all the people I mentioned before. And we have the chance to see and to meet these collectors. Sometimes we do and we did and we already, we are doing now some bespoke products for them and we talk to these collectors, but through them and believe me, we travel a lot and we will continue to have the possibility for these clients, these collectors to meet directly personally. Dominique Renault and Julian Tixie. So going direct to me, probably it's a short term view of short term strategy, but I really, I really prefer to go through retailers to tag with the truth. We have one client, he came directly to us, but before we had these retailers, these partners, a Japanese man as a retailer.
- [54:17]
Alommen Joseph
I salute you, dear listeners. If you are interested, definitely reach out either directly to the brand or the retailers. Michel, I want to take the time to thank you so, so much to sit down with David and me. I have loved this journey of listening to you and how you've landed here and how you all came together. I can't wait to hear the developments on both the foundation and the Academy. So please do update us and have your associates come on the show. And I also want to thank you listener to taking the time to listen to us for another hour. You can find all our previous episodes on our official website www.therealtime show and on Instagram viaaltime. If you want to support the show, please subscribe, like, rate and share it with your friends. If you have any questions, feedback and or criticism, please do send us a message. You can also DM us if you want to join the TRTS community. We have a vibrant community on WhatsApp where we have a lot of fun but also serious discussions. You can reach David on Instagram via his handle Rob N u Dds and me via my handle Lonben Joseph. And if you prefer to send us an email, you can just add our first name to the address at therealtime show, which is the same as our IG handle. Stay Sane and Keep on Ticking.