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- [00:00]
Zach Weiss
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Rob Nutts
Hello, watch fans, and welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nutts. I'm joined, as ever, by our friendly neighborhood jeweler in Amsterdam, Alain Ben Joseph. And today, Warner Wine's very own Zach Weiss, as he's talking about his very own watch brand for the first time on the Real Time show, at least Aura Aurea. So we're looking forward to diving into that. But before we do that, let's welcome Zach to the studio and get to know him a little bit better. Welcome.
- [00:31]
Zach Weiss
Thank you so much for having me. And yes, this actually my first time talking about the brand on anything, so thank you.
- [00:36]
Rob Nutts
Okay, so we're your, we're your training ground. You've landed in a pretty soft space, to be honest. You know, we, we really want to get to know you and we want to get to know about the brand because as a longtime journalist, myself and Alon as a, as a growing figure in the journalism sphere as well, it's really, really interesting for us to see someone that has so much experience in that field step across the divide and now try and put all of those insights that you've gained over the years of experience into practice for yourself. So let's talk about how did it all begin?
- [01:05]
Zach Weiss
Certainly. So I'm a lifelong watch fan. My dad got me into watches at a very young age. I legitimately can't remember a time when I wasn't wearing a watch or interested in watches. And to some extent as a kid, I always had a swatch on or a fossil on or something, and that just always stuck with me. And as I developed an interest in, in my life in art and design, that sort of flowed with me into college and graduate school. I have a master's in design, and I kind of always wanted to get into the watch industry after grad school. And actually one of my first job interviews was with a watch company in New York City that does like licensing watches, like they do like hello Kitty watches and stuff like that. And I didn't get the job, but I tried at that first thing. Maybe that was for the best, though, around 2011, which is when we started Warning and Wound. But my, the co founder of Border Wound, Blake Mallon, who is a good friend of mine from college, we were hanging out a lot. He had a little extra money in his, you know, in his, in his pocket and he, he wanted to buy a watch. And he came to me knowing I was interested in watches and just like what I would recommend and started looking at kind of like Known brands and, you know, started to see that there were some interesting affordable watches out there, but there wasn't a lot of content about them at the time. You know, if there was content, it was on the forums and it was, you know, maybe a little bit, you know, harder to digest than just like a well written magazine kind of a thing and not a lot of photography. So we just figured we'd do it for fun. You know, it was really, this is like a side project, something, a healthier outlet for us than drinking beer and playing video games, which is what we were mostly doing. You know, it just got, it hit a note with people. We just started getting followers and started getting traffic, which was any level of traffic was exciting because we had no expectations. So 50 readers in a week was cool. And then it just slowly built. Fifteen years later, we're still doing it. We have a sizable company now. We also run the Wind Up Watch Fairs, which we founded in 2015. We have our online store, Wind Up Watch Shop. We were a showroom in Brooklyn, you know, so really, you know, just turned into, turned that little hobby into career and obsession. And yeah, I still am very into watches, luckily.
- [03:32]
Alain Ben Joseph
What makes you so mad to start your own watch brand? Because as a big media outlet for watches, you know how difficult it is.
- [03:41]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, you know, it's in one sense I should probably know better, right, Than to go down this road and it's, you know, it's the obsession and I think, you know, I always wanted to make my own watches. I think that's really where this all started from. Had we had more money in 2011, had Kickstarter been more of a, you know, a thing, it hadn't quite started yet. Like maybe we would have started a watch brand instead of a website about watches, you know, I don't know. But, you know, 15 years later, thousands of little designs on my computer that I've been ruminating over and I just, you know, I felt like it was time to try, you know, and you know, at least now I have the safety net. So if this completely fails, I'm not, you know, it's not going to hurt me too bad. Just emotionally my ego will be wounded mostly. So.
- [04:39]
Alain Ben Joseph
So walk us through the first moment. You said after these 15 years of wanting to start a watch brand, how did you start? Did you have an idea and was clear cut? Did you sketch around? Did you start with dial case diameter? Walk us through the process.
- [04:58]
Zach Weiss
I'm always working on designs and you know, working on designs with brands, doing collaborations, working on things Internally for worn and wound, and then just working on things on my own for fun, you know, like, there's been times where I've done a design a day kind of a thing just for my own amusement. And sometimes out of those will be like a little, a spark of an idea. And I'll take those and develop them further. And the ones that are, you know, really good will develop for months and months and months and just tweak and tweak and tweak and I'll have several of these things going. At a certain point, I just had a few that I was like, these are really good. I'm fairly confident, based on my, my knowledge of, you know, what's popular, my own taste, that I have some really strong design signs here. And, you know, so they were kind of sitting there and. But not doing. There was nothing happening with them, which was kind of stressful, you know, in its own way. That combined with turning 40, which, you know, just felt like a bit of a milestone or something in my life, like knowing a bit about building a business and just thinking, well, if I want to be successful at this, if I want to have a brand that's up and running, you know, I know from Morning Wound, it's not something that happens overnight. It's going to take five years, if we're lucky, 10 years, you know, most likely. So I like to get this started now. So that'll be 50 when it's coasting, rather than 60 or 70 or something like that. Um, so, I mean, yeah, that was really, you know, that was really the, the impetus for it. And, you know, also, as I say, like, with Morn and Wound just having grown, there was more space in my own life to do it. You know, now that we have employees and things like that, that's. That's helped a lot, not not having to do everything.
- [06:43]
Rob Nutts
So you've made one hell of a success out of what started out as a hobby and you've put in the time, so you deserve your own crack at the big time. And from the looks of the three models that you're debuting with, you've got a real good shot of it because you have chosen, interestingly, to debut with a pointer date. From what I've seen in the last couple of years, one of the most desired and one of the most seldom served complications on the market. I mean, a few years ago, it was all about chronographs. The GMT is having its day, but the point of date has been, I think, highlighted by quite a few industry Analysts as the next big thing. I love that. It's a very smart move, I believe. But what was your thinking behind it? Was it similar?
- [07:23]
Zach Weiss
You know, it was a little bit of like my, what I wanted in a watch, you know. So the design that this first line is called, so it's a Coriolis line and it's based around that, this index, that's the hour index, that's around the outside of the watch. That's sort of where the design started. It was just an index. I was playing with that. It developed until it became something that I thought really just was dynamic and kind of spoke to an aesthetic. So the watch formed around that. As I was like kind of building out designs, I was thinking of it as a line and that's sort of how I'm thinking of everything I designed. So there's like a format and here, you know, the, the DNA of the Coriolis is around that index and, you know, the case and things like that. But I have designs for many different potential complications as well as, you know, no complications too. And what I like about a date is functional. You know, I like, I like to have a date on a watch that I'm going to use every day. And, you know, quite literally punching a hole in the dial didn't work for this one. It just didn't feel right. I couldn't interrupt that index. So pointer date was really like the logical thing to do. And I'm also a bit obsessed with like the sort of off catalogs of some of the movement manufacturers. And Sellita has like an incredible catalog and people use like three movements from them. Mostly sitting there was the 382, the SW382, which is a pointer date moonphase complication. But I was able to get it without the Moonphase. I didn't, I didn't want a moon phase on this watch. And they gave it a new number, the 386. So it's actually the first watch with this exact version of the 300, which is neat. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's just a very. It's, it's a simple, elegant solution to a pointer date to a date. And it's funny, most people see it and they're like, oh, you did a GMT. And I'm like, like, look again. It goes to 31.
- [09:34]
Rob Nutts
I am wired by the profile of the bezel. To be honest. I think the finishing choices that you've made are superb. It looks like it will sit so comfortably and low profile on the wrist. And you've made the perfect movement choice. Cause it's, it's slim and it's so. I mean, this has never been really from Sellita. Like you said, you've got your own catalogue number, which is pretty impressive, but that even the standard point of date moon phase that they have is very, very rarely used. I too was mining through the back alleys of Salita's catalogue recently in search of a point of date gmt, which is something that I'm working on. And they are almost impossible to find. To be honest, I'm sort of chasing down Dubois de Pre for one of their modules. I think that's a 331 or the 336. And then trying to find some movements that can power those effectively and reliably and it's, it's almost impossible. So you've maybe blazed a bit of a trail here with this one as a debut piece especially to inspire other new makers to not stick to the beaten track. Because we've all got a lot of three hundreds, two hundreds, two hundred twenties in our collections. And what did you say it was? A 386?
- [10:40]
Zach Weiss
It's a 386.
- [10:41]
Rob Nutts
Yeah, the 386. Okay. You didn't think about getting them to put like a. A ZW Appalachian?
- [10:49]
Zach Weiss
I didn't have any influence on the numbering, just was able to get right. Okay.
- [10:54]
Rob Nutts
It's really cool though. So you've obviously got a good rapport with Sellita. Do you mind sharing with us what the minimum order quantity for something like that was for you? Or is that something that you need to keep under wraps?
- [11:06]
Zach Weiss
I mean, I'm making 300 of these watches, 100 per color. So that was the minimum order quantity through the manufacturing that I'm working with.
- [11:15]
Rob Nutts
Your goal long term to. Obviously you want to have success with Aura Oreo. That be seldom a reason other than that to try starting a watch brand. But would you envision yourself ever stepping away from warn and wound to run this full time in 10 years or 5 or 10 years time, say? Or are you always going to be part of the war on Wand family?
- [11:35]
Zach Weiss
I mean, I don't think there's any way to like that I would ever fully step away from Warden wound. Nor do I. You know, I want to. It's something, you know, I feels like my baby. Right. It's, you know, it's so integral to kind of who I've been for a large portion of my life. So. But I do see, you know, like logically speaking, this is if this grows, it's going to demand time and you know, I'll have to figure out how to, how to split it. So, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll kind of cross that road when I, when I get there. You know, one of the benefits I have and advantages in doing this is that through Warner Wound I've built, you know, with my partners we've built infrastructure for doing this kind of thing. So like we have warehousing, we have shipping and I'm utilizing that for this. I'm not going to be, you know, shipping these out of my apartment. I've, you know, we have people who are better at that than I could ever be. So, you know, there's like a system there as well. But yeah, you know, it's, it's tricky. Yeah, we'll see where it goes. You know, I already have, don't have enough time to write articles and things like that.
- [12:39]
Rob Nutts
So I hope you get a discount at Windup. That's all I'm going to say.
- [12:43]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, I hope so too.
- [12:47]
Alain Ben Joseph
On a serious note, on the Wind up link, you've mentioned it now twice. Zach, just to make it clear, is this a Zach Star Wise company or is Warner Wound invested as well?
- [12:59]
Zach Weiss
No, this is 100% me. Yeah, so it's a Zach Star Weiss. So yeah, the company is CSW Designs llc. Really it's my company, I own and
- [13:11]
Alain Ben Joseph
we have a lot of listeners who are aspiring entrepreneurs, aspiring watch brand owners, founders and they either some of them are doing it. Are you fully self funded or did you attract investors?
- [13:24]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, I'm self funded for this. I, I did consider the, you know, investors like friends and kind of family sort of direction but after doing the math I was able to, to get this at least up, up and running, you know, to the, to the point it's at. And then the first lunch will be a pre order, you know, it's like if so, you know that'll kind of help fund the rest of it though. It is, you know, if it were all fails, I'm not going to go into like they're not going to sue me. I can, I can, I can afford to pay the rest. Like I hopefully won't have to.
- [14:00]
Rob Nutts
What's been the response from your colleagues in the media industry? I mean you've obviously built up a great relationship with them over the years as most of us that work in the industry for a while do. But because of Windup as well, especially with them being visitors to your fairs so frequently and thinking so highly of them. Has that helped, you know, you getting support from rival media titles as it were?
- [14:24]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Yeah, I'm definitely like closer with brands than I am with other media outlets. But you know, I've reached out to all the people I know and I have gotten a very nice response from, you know, my friends in the media and promises of coverage. What's been more interesting to me is actually how other brands were like the first people. When I ran into like a couple of weeks ago, I was at Intersect in New York. It was happening. I didn't tell anyone I was going to be there. Just thought it would be fun to go. And I did happen to wear my watch. I was thinking maybe it'd be good to wear it and like immediately brands were like, let me see it, I have to see it. So that level of enthusiasm is really exciting. There's been a few brands who have been really helpful to me on like the, in the process of just, you know, sometimes talking me, you know, I have some crazy paranoid question about something and like you know, just having somebody to bounce things off of. There's been some people I've, I've talked to have been super helpful there. It's really, it's great how I think in the, you know, the micro brand independent space brands really are supportive of each other, which is nice to see for sure.
- [15:40]
Rob Nutts
So right now we'd obviously, I guess we have to class this as a micro brand or small independent. But you know, I tend towards the term small independent when there's much more design that's gone into a piece where it's not just like off the shelf components that's emulating something else. And this clearly has a huge amount of character in your fingerprints all over it. So maybe we could call it an emerging small independent. But what's your long term goal for it? Will you knock off the sort of entry level calibers in a creative way as you have done with the 386 and stick within that vein? Or do you aspire to grow this brand to not maybe auterie level but include complications like a tourbillon or chime in mechanism for example?
- [16:29]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, I mean no, no, no tourbillons or minute repeaters on the the calendar yet. The way I'm kind of seeing it is that I want to find the movements that support the design and the ideas. Right. And if that means, you know, having to go upmarket because I really want to make a super slim watch or you know, you could think of something like I need a bowshare or something like that. Right. Like, that would be the reason to do that. It's not just to move up market. Like, I want to always kind of have like a logic behind it. And, you know, maybe I do like precious metal watches. So I could see myself like dabbling in that a little bit at some point, which obviously would raise the price. But once again, it's not to just get into that really high level of that high price point. And, you know, I'm a designer also, not a watch engineer or watchmaker. So when I would, you know, in terms of like creating bespoke movements and things like that, like, that's not really something I see on the table as of this moment. But if the company grew and I was able to work with, you know, or hire watchmakers and develop things, you know, I could see that also moving up market. But at the same time, I actually could see some watches coming in a lower price point than this first watch because once again, the correct movement might be in a 200 series or, you know. So, yeah, just trying to follow the, the design rather than like, yeah, bracket myself too much. You know.
- [18:10]
Alain Ben Joseph
Talking of pricing, Zach, how difficult did you find it to come to the current list price that it is? And I believe it's US$3,950.
- [18:22]
Zach Weiss
Yes, yes, very difficult. It's very difficult. A lot of debating, you know, modeling, you know, this is probably where the industry experience has helped, like knowing where there were some pitfalls I've seen from brands who underestimated costs going into things and at the same time, you know, thinking about it as a collector and enthusiast and sort of what I think is tolerable at certain price points. Right. So I felt for the complications, for the level of finish and everything that I've put into the watch. At 3950, the value is certainly there and you'll be able to see it in the watch. And I don't think it's like it's not going to stress people. At the same time, it's enough that I can continue to move the company forward. I can continue to develop new products, which I'm eager to do kind of quickly. I have a bunch of ideas I'm ready to get firing and at the same time have some buffer for unpredictability, which, you know, I think we're all, we're all. We're all looking at regularly here. So. Yeah.
- [19:38]
Alain Ben Joseph
Will you start off pre orders direct to consumer? Will you have retailers on your roadmap?
- [19:50]
Zach Weiss
Yeah. So I Mean, the model is definitely more built around direct to consumer, but I would like to have like select retailers, you know, who, you know, specialize in independent brands mostly to put watches physically around the world. You know, less is like a volume play and more like, oh, if you're in XYZ country, please go here to see the watch. Because I know the value of seeing watches in person is really still unbeatable. And at this price point, I think it's even more, you know, more of a have to have. Oh yeah, that isn't the plan. The first watch though is pre order. Like I said, that's really kind of like to get it off the ground. My hope is in the future to not do pre order model once again. That's approaching it as like an enthusiast and a collector. When I, when I send money out there, I want something back kind of quickly. I say this as I'm waiting on multiple things for a while, you know, you kind of, you accept it. But I'd like to, if I can not play into that too much.
- [20:51]
Rob Nutts
You know, honestly, I didn't know you were a designer by education, nor did I know that you've been conceiving new designs as often as one a day in stretches since you graduated. I mean, as far as I see it, there's a huge amount of potential within this Coriolis platform, such as precious metals or artisanal dials in itself. But you must have hundreds of other ideas for models lined up for the future. What kind of release frequency are you planning?
- [21:20]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, so that's something I'm, I'm trying to figure out. Um, you know, part of me wants to be able, you know, play a little safe at first and not, you know, kind of go too fast and overwhelm myself and you know, kind of see what the actual day to day of the business will be before I am suddenly making like hundreds upon hundreds of watches a year. You know, there's also some ego there, assuming I could sell any of these things. But I have a catalog currently thought out that is several years long at least. And I am constantly working on something, you know, new too. And you know, the way I am thinking of it, like I said, is lines versus individual models. So like this, the pointer data is the start of Coriolis line. And you know, you said exactly right. Like I have thought about what could enamel dial versions of this look like, what could, like some, you know, other techniques look like, what could other sizes look like as well, and how that could grow it. But then, so my hope is to kind of launch this. I don't want to put a date on anything because I've honestly been holding back getting the next things started because it's just like I have to stop spending money. So, like, whether or not that'll be at the end of this year or more likely sometime early next year that I'll be able to unveil something new and then maybe come back and do colors and maybe expand on Coriolis and kind of go back and forth and then add another line as I go, you know, once again, that's sort of an experience thing I've noticed, you know. I think so, yeah. I mean, you put so much effort into one design. You spend so much on tooling. Like, I think a lot of brands, they do this and then they move on from a design and it's sort of like there's a lot of, like, lost potential, I think, in doing that. So, you know, my personal approach is just to try and get more out of it. Yeah,
- [23:29]
Rob Nutts
we're talking a lot about product specifically, which is a really interesting rabbit hole to run through. But I want to talk about brand. The whole construction of a universe, the message of aura, or how you intend on communicating to people what it is that you stand for that sets you apart from the pack. Obviously, your personal experience is superb, but there needs to be more than you in a usp, if you know what I mean.
- [23:57]
Zach Weiss
Yeah. So, I mean, you know, it's, it's. It's tricky. I mean, building brands. Building brand is tricky. And I'm not, you know, like I said, coming at this with like a specific theme for the brand. Right. It's not a pilot watch brand or dive watch brand or something like that. You know, it's. It's. It's a platform for me to create product through what I have tried to do with the. With the branding. The name Ora Aurea, which I end up choosing because I like the sound of the word. You know, it's like it comes from Latin for golden hour, but I put the words together and spelt it in a different way. It has like a musicality to it. It has like, I think, an approachability to it. And then, you know, the logo that I created is sort of a quirky logo. It's also, it should kind of, you know, I don't want to have that sort of like old school luxury feel to it. That's, that's also just not me as a person. Even if the watches might be priced in this, you know, you know, whatever the Word luxury is always tricky, but, you know, a few thousand dollars is certainly a luxury product. So the brand itself should be approachable and should be kind of, you know, style, focus, taste, focus. And the. In terms of, like, what's uniting the watches, the way I see the approach is that it's about creating keepers. It's about creating watches that are, as a collector and enthusiast, have this level of like, detail and thought from every angle, from, you know, the novelty of them, from the use of complications, where these are the watches that you don't want to let go of. And maybe, you know, I don't think there's a brand out there that makes watches that they want people to flip. But, like, you know, I think it's like, it's really about finding substance in the design. And sort of when I know a design is finished is when I. I feel like I've created something that I myself, as this collector and enthusiastic would hold on to. It has the kind of special X factors of a, Of. Of a watch. Esthetically, I think what is uniting them is more, you know, kind of a. My sense of. Of style and taste, but I don't really want to pigeonhole that either. So there's definitely a mid century to kind of neo traditional sort of element in my, in my designs, and I think you'll see that in other designs as well.
- [26:40]
Alain Ben Joseph
But.
- [26:40]
Zach Weiss
But, you know, let's say it's not like as cohesive of a DNA as, like Ming has, you know, where everything is so core Ming.
- [26:47]
Rob Nutts
So it's so funny that you should reference Ming, because I was thinking the only. The only visual sort of reference I sort of see is, is this as a dress Ming. It's like classy Ming. It's like a sort of steampunk Ming almost. Also somehow in the logo, they're not at all similar. I love the logo, actually. It's somehow simultaneously runic and simultaneously Tron. I don't really know how to place it, but you've done a really good job there. I have a tagline for your brand. I'll invoice you later. Don't worry. Finding substance in style. And that might be a nice way to sort of summarize what you were saying, because I do see where you're coming from. I certainly love the idea of you looking at movements and does it fit your design? You know, not. Not bending to the stuff that's on the shelf. That takes, I can imagine, a lot of time, quite a lot of patience on your part. The back and forth with movement Companies and trying to find suppliers that are willing to work with you and be flexible can't be easy. I have a question that may sound a little frivolous, but I have a point behind it, so indulge me if you know the answer. Do you know how many articles you've written over your career?
- [28:04]
Zach Weiss
I don't, I don't.
- [28:06]
Rob Nutts
I mean, we're talking over, I'd say at least 2,000, right? So in that sort of ballpark, yeah,
- [28:14]
Zach Weiss
I would, I would, I would guess that. But yeah, I've never, I've never looked especially, you know, like this, the main articles. Then there's all the little things you write too. So it's like, yeah, I don't know, but it's. Yeah, it's definitely the thousands.
- [28:26]
Rob Nutts
But we can. So we can comfortably say you've covered thousands of watches. And as, as one of the organizers of Wind up, you surely have had thousands of watches pass through your hands. Were there any articles or encounters with watches in person that really gave you a kick up the ass when it came to starting your own project and made you think, you know what, I can do this. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, like, oh, if they can do it, I can do it. But if just seeing something that really inspired you maybe to take the leap,
- [28:52]
Zach Weiss
I feel like, though, like, maybe since I sort of got to the mental space of like, I am going to do this, I've definitely, I think, seen more inspiration from brands. Like, I know that's not really the question you asked, but like, you know, whether it's, you know, I'm talking to like, Sylvain Berneron about his watches and hearing his very well thought out plans for how he's like, building his company and just like, you know, taking some inspiration from that, you know, somebody who's kind of doing something very distinctive and has this, you know, rigorous idea about how to build a company. And, you know, not that I'm going to emulate that, but I just like, I like hearing about that kind of stuff, you know, similarly, having lunch with like, you know, Nicholas from Fears and how, talking to him about his company and how he's building it and what models are doing, you know, well, and just, you know, just all that kind of stuff. I feel like I've really, it's, I've, I've, I've begun absorbing it a little bit more as somebody who's trying to think about how I'm gonna navigate this space, you know, with an actual brand. But, yeah, as if there was a specific model, though. I don't know. I, I'm. I'm. You know what it's like at this point when you're, you've seen so many watches and like, some days you're just like, oh, here's another this, here's another that, here's another this. And then something just comes across, your email and you're just like, mind blown. You know, whenever that happens, it just gives me like, you know, faith that there's still, there's still opportunity, there's still ideas to be had out there, you know, and that happens pretty regularly. I have in my Slack actually open a photo of the Otsuka low tech number eight. Like, that thing is incredible. I was just looking at the, like the Niton jump hour earlier because that thing is gorgeous. You know, just, it's all around. So
- [30:51]
Alain Ben Joseph
Rob gave you for your advice and we like to coin things on the Real Time show, especially nicknames. So Double O. Has that been coined already, Zach, in the Worn and Wound offices?
- [31:02]
Zach Weiss
No.
- [31:03]
Alain Ben Joseph
Hereby. You heard it the first time on the Real Time show. Zach's brand is Double O D. Okay, interesting. Talking of epic brands, Epic designs, doing it or not doing it, did you ever consider reviving a old, dormant watch brand? Or was it always clear to you it had to be a new brand?
- [31:27]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, no, I hadn't really considered reviving something old. I also, you know, never like, in my experience, came across like an opportunity like that where there was, you know, a dormant brand I could pick up or something. Which I always think it's interesting when you find out people kind of have crossed paths with these documents or something like that. The one, I think probably the first one I ever hear of is when Bill Yao from Mark 2 mentioned he had Tornek. And I was just like, how do you have Tornek? That's insane. And he's turned it into a brand. Just coming across these documents or something in an archive. But, yeah, that hasn't happened to me. So now it's always, it was always going to be a new. A new brand.
- [32:11]
Alain Ben Joseph
The time is not ideal to launch a watch brand. Did you consider the last three, four months to postpone? Or was there literally no way back?
- [32:24]
Zach Weiss
You know, it's, it, it's never the right time, I feel like. And it's. And then it's always kind of. So it always is the right time. And this project's been in the works for a while. This watch actually wasn't even the first Watch that I was working on. There was A whole nother watch with a whole other manufacturing group that fell apart unfortunately. So, you know, this could have been a year ago that we were talking had that happened. But you know, at a certain point it's like my impatience is just running up. I have, I have it here, it's ready to go, the samples are good, you know what I mean? It's like I had to pull the trigger and how many things have changed in the, like several months even since I've done that? Just hope for the best.
- [33:13]
Rob Nutts
At this point, I'm a bit annoyed at you actually, because.
- [33:18]
Zach Weiss
Sorry.
- [33:19]
Rob Nutts
Well, you'll probably not be too sorry when I tell you why. I was just studying some of the macro shots and I was looking at the hour hand and it is absolutely gorgeous. A double level. The finishing, the bi colour. Yeah, you've ruined all the other hour hands for me now, so thanks. Well, well done. When do these flashes come from? Because there's so many things in this watch, it's clear it's been designed by somebody that's got not just a deft touch with design but also a huge amount of experience to sort of, you know, what people are looking for, you know, the little things that add quality. Exquisitely finished handset is one of the best things. Like I always say to clients, if you're going to blow the budget anywhere, blow it on the hands and the dial and, you know, people often try and sneak away with cheap, I don't know, stamped hands, poorly finished hands. These look like they've been lovingly hand pressed in Switzerland. But was it, was it a horrible invoice to receive when you saw how much they were going to cost you?
- [34:22]
Zach Weiss
You know, it's funny with the hands specifically, you know, when it's going back and forth with like, you know, engineering originally, they were just, they're like, these are gonna be very expensive. There's other ways you can make this. And I was like, let's find out how expensive they're gonna be before we pulled back. Because I wasn't looking to value engineer it to the point I was saying before, I was kind of like, it should cost what it has to cost to succeed as the design that I wanted to. And the limitations with this one, really, at a certain point I wasn't gonna be able to afford to make. Luckily this was below that threshold when it all came in. But yeah, I mean, it was, it was very expensive to do. I didn't choose any like, you know, cheaper options on anything. And yeah, with, you know, the hands, you know, and like the little elements that are there that hopefully, you know, that you pick up on. You know, I can, I thank you for picking up on that. Like the layering there, it's, you know, I have just tons of variations of things in my design files and at a certain point one just kind of clicks and maybe I have a few versions of it and if there's something I keep coming back to and if I go away from my computer for a couple weeks and look and that's the one, then it ends up kind of. I kind of trust my instinct there. And having that two tone hand was. Yeah, I mean it just was very cool. And I don't even use it as two toned on every model. I just, I like that the depth is there. But you know, with the whole watch there's a lot of modularity, you know, so like I can change the colors on so many different things for moving forward, including the case, you know, I could do like the mid case is three parts, so I could change finishing between the three parts. I could change the material on one of them and stuff like that. You know, whether or not I will, it's a question. But it's just, I like having that potential there.
- [36:30]
Rob Nutts
In my opinion, it's precisely these elements, these remarkably well finished, well thought out components that make watches like this into a keeper. Because some watches blow your socks off when you see them hit your inbox or when you first get them on your wrist at whatever fair around the world and you're like, oh blimey, they've really thrown the kitchen sink at this design. It's impossible to ignore because it's so loud and it's so brash. Those are the watches that kind of. They woo you instantly. You fall in love with them for a week and then you're sick of them and you're like, oh my God, just shut up, stop nagging at me. I don't want to wear you anymore. Like, go away. And then you've got the quieter heroes, you know. This watch is far from boring. It's extremely interesting with a multi level dial and the creative and sensitive use of color. But it's, it whispers, it doesn't shout. And it's the kind of thing to me that will continue to whisper sweet nothings into your wrist for as long as you have it. And it, I think that there's. I know it sounds like I'm trying to draw some kind of relationship analogy here, awkwardly. Maybe I am. There's something about a watch like this that I think you fall in love with more. Over time, it gets more beautiful. The more you look at it, you see it again and again, you learn more about it. It reveals itself to you in different ways. Hands with that kind of finishing and those kind of levels are going to look completely different depending on the way the light hits them, if it's natural or artificial or if it's colored. And it will, it will. Because of their potential to leap out of the dial and to grab your heartstrings is so vast, it enhances everything else around them. They all feed off each other. And yeah, you said at the top your goal was to make keepers. And you know, you also qualified that by saying, well, no brand wants people to flip stuff. But you know, some brands don't. They clearly don't care. You know, you really have taken pains here to, to get as much into a refined and classical dial as possible without making it scream. And I, I just think it's a great achievement and you should be super proud of yourself and I'm not really angry at you. My bank balances probably gonna be having a word, but yes, it's super, super stuff. Where or when will people be able to see these pieces in real life? Because I guess only the prototypes exist and anyone that doesn't buy one on pre order risks the chance of missing out entirely.
- [38:58]
Zach Weiss
Yeah. So. Well, that'd be interesting if they sell out. Fingers crossed, I guess. But I will actually have a booth at Wind Up Watch Fair San Francisco, which is the first weekend in May. Yeah. Planning the launch date. That was another thing. You're asking when I was going to do this. Being in the industry, I also, you know, we know these cycles a bit and like trying to find like a hole where I could launch it between different things, you know. So like, part of the reason, you know, it's coming out next week is cause it's sort of in that the like doldrums before watches and wonders happens. Because after watches and wonders happens, you're like, it's impossible to get any, anything out there for a few weeks at least, you know, plus for traveling and doing all these other things. So it was, yeah, to launch here and then show it in May at, at the Window Watch Fair. Since my first run, I just assume something's going to go wrong. So like I'm giving the pre order a nice, you know, breadth of like a window, you know, under promise, over deliver. But things are moving along steadily so hopefully there'll be finals sooner than later.
- [40:12]
Rob Nutts
Do you intend on holding back some models from sale from the 300 that you're making available so that you will have some physical pieces that you can continue to just show the brand with.
- [40:21]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, I was going to hold, I was going to hold a few back. I mean also just for once again, security purposes of like this, the first run, I want to just be extra safe and hold, hold extras. But yeah, it is, you know, it is great if you're at a fair, wind up fair. It is good to have inventory people can take away. Once again, talking about personal experience, like I. The shopping I've done at our own windups, I only, I only end up buying something that I can walk away from a table from. Which brands are probably gonna be mad at me for saying this because a lot of them don't. But it's like it's. The impulse aspect of it is so it's so important kind of in person.
- [41:00]
Rob Nutts
So I assume you have a relatively vast collection. Is that a correct assumption?
- [41:06]
Zach Weiss
I have a number of watches, yes.
- [41:08]
Rob Nutts
Yes. I won't ask you what that number is specifically, nor where you live, but did you have to sell or did you feel yourself inclined to sell any or many of those pieces in the run up to the foundation of Ora Orio.
- [41:21]
Zach Weiss
You know, I'd like to say I've slowed down, but I don't know if that's even true. I feel like I've just like bought less but kind of more, sometimes more expensive pieces. Yeah, at the moment I have it. But there is the reality that like, just practically speaking, I want to wear my watches now more than a lot of the watches that I have because I really like it. Obviously I'm proud of it. But then it's, you know, one of these things. It's like now I'm the also the ambassador for the brand, so I have to like support, you know, show it. And it is difficult because I have, I have some really beautiful pieces that like, am I going to double wrist? Am I going to be that guy now, like wearing a Garrick on my one wrist and then my watch on the other? You know, it's like, maybe, but. But yeah, I definitely need to. I definitely need to stop buying watches.
- [42:05]
Alain Ben Joseph
Dude, double wristing is not a question. So that's a must. And you'll hit the next problem when you have your third double O watch come out because then you need to pick between the three. I was studying the pictures like Rob did, and I already commented before we started recording about that syringe hand, which is indeed stunning. You know what caught my eye as well is the stitching on the beautiful vachetta watch straps.
- [42:30]
Zach Weiss
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
- [42:31]
Alain Ben Joseph
So that's a little shout out to you. I'm very sensitive to beautiful leather products, stitching and, and fonts. So my question to you is, did you have any help on fonts? Because our dear listeners know I love any font and any type of Alphabet, but I don't have a lot of watches in Roman numerals. Although your watch could be a contender.
- [42:56]
Rob Nutts
He hates him. He absolutely hates him. He has binned off the more wonderful watches than you could ever imagine just because he's got Roman numerals. And sometimes when a watch is beautiful, I don't even notice it. But you, you've got to admit, this works here, Ellen, you got to put your hand in your pocket. Come on.
- [43:10]
Alain Ben Joseph
The first time I saw the pictures with the dancing, I call them dancing Roman numerals. So the, the, the, the jumping one up and down. Stunning. Well done. They're rather short, so stout. They're not high, which gives a cool effect. And I don't like to compare watches, but it gives me a, a vibe that you gave a nod to Frodzum, who also has very beautiful short Roman numerals. And it gave me a bit of these very elegant Omega Deville watches that are very underrated, the modern devil ones that they also do in Roman numeral and then a beautiful golden hemisphere like you've done. So they alternate. Kudos to you. The question was because Rob always tells me, keep them short alone. You talk too much. So here is the short question. Did you do the fonts yourself, yes or no?
- [44:08]
Zach Weiss
Yes, yes, I did.
- [44:11]
Alain Ben Joseph
So we salute you, sir.
- [44:13]
Zach Weiss
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Big typography fan and, you know, there's just always something I've kind of felt with watches, like you're going to go so far to design so much and then use, you know, a standard typeface on your dial. Just, I don't know, it always feels, it feels like a bit of a miss to me to do that. I don't mean to, like, once again, that can. I don't want to insult brands who do it. There's plenty of gorgeous typefaces out there to take, take and even amend or something, but for me it just felt like the DNA has to be consistently mine.
- [44:49]
Alain Ben Joseph
Dude, this is the Real Time show. You can say whatever you want. So you, you can say that it's insulting to us collectors when brands do
- [44:57]
Rob Nutts
that
- [45:00]
Zach Weiss
sometimes, you know. Yeah. If they, if you're, you know, caveat if you choose the right type, like you know, taste and obviously design still plays in, you can choose the right. But I just, yeah, for me really I wanted to design my own. It's also just a challenge, you know, particularly actually on the numeral sets like for the pointer index. They're like to make something that was legible but then a little bit unique. Somebody already called the one provocative, which I wonder if that means they didn't like it, you know, so it's like I, you know, it's part of the, part of the, part of the game for me.
- [45:44]
Alain Ben Joseph
If other brands would call you to help them with a design or just an element of their design, like fonts for example, would you,
- [45:53]
Zach Weiss
you know, so you know, not to like turn this into advertising but like through worn and wound, we would, you know, and so like through our like creative services, I definitely have consult with brands on typography, design, things like that as or Aurea. I wouldn't.
- [46:10]
Alain Ben Joseph
It's interesting because I was studying your case back as well and that reminded me an episode that aired a few weeks ago at a beautiful discussion between Rob and David Vausher, my two dear colleagues. And I always say I don't listen to any episode of the Realtime show where my voice is heard, but when my voice isn't heard, I listen from the beginning to the end. And it was an actual very cool discussion between Rob and David about American products where they state the state instead of saying made in the US how big of a deliberation was it for you, Zach, to write design in Brooklyn instead of New York, New York City, state, New York or the U.S.
- [46:52]
Zach Weiss
you know, actually it wasn't much of a deliberation because I knew, I definitely wanted to say designed in Brooklyn. I think a lot of people use New York City a little freely perhaps, you know, that, that they, they, they do something here in New York City obviously is the whole city, it's five boroughs. I'm based in Brooklyn, I grew up in New York City. So I take it, I take it, I take it seriously as a native New Yorker and yeah, I've lived in Brooklyn for the last, I don't even know, 20 odd years. So Brooklyn's rare is designed.
- [47:27]
Rob Nutts
You know, I wonder how many of our listeners could name all five boroughs of New York and whether we could find, whether we could find a watch from each of them. I'm guessing the one that people would, I think Staten island is the fifth one that people would forget, right?
- [47:39]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, probably, probably.
- [47:40]
Rob Nutts
Are there any, is there a Staten Island Watch Company. Because it sounds like a really cool name.
- [47:45]
Zach Weiss
Yeah. You know, not that I know of.
- [47:47]
Alain Ben Joseph
And you know that Brooklyn is Dutch. It's broken. Like, Harlem is Harlem.
- [47:53]
Rob Nutts
So I didn't know that.
- [47:54]
Alain Ben Joseph
Here you go. If you want a Dutch ambassador, Zach, you know where I'm at.
- [47:57]
Zach Weiss
Okay, perfect. Yeah.
- [48:00]
Rob Nutts
You know what? You made me think of something before, Alon, when you were saying, you know, this is a pretty troubling climate or a difficult climate into which to launch a watch, and asked Zach whether he considered delaying. And I was thinking, well, it might have. Might be a long delay. You never know. I mean, the last time it was a good time to launch a watch was about five years ago, so we're way out from that. But I wanted to chime in with your catchphrase of all things Alon. A beautiful watch is a sold watch. Give it to us in Dutch. Now, there's always space for quality products and great design and a new way of thinking. So I think you're going to hit the ground running. Have you got any plans for building and maintaining a community on a platform separate to private channels or Instagram or anything like that? Any sort of space for them? Any events happening in Brooklyn?
- [49:00]
Zach Weiss
Not yet. Not yet. And yeah, I mean, that's. That's a good example of the kind of, like, company aspect that is. I'm probably underestimating the sort of time that it's going to take, but, yeah, kind of get it off the ground first. This is such a hectic time of year, and I'm just making it more intense. So get through. Get through like, halfway through May, and then I'm going to hopefully be able to take a step back and think about doing some more events. Once again, not a plug for worn and wound, but we have our showroom, and we do a lot of showroom events with brands. So I actually have a space that I could utilize for this, bring people in.
- [49:42]
Rob Nutts
Do you have a personal life outside of watches, or is it all work and watches?
- [49:49]
Zach Weiss
I'm very small one. Modest. You know, I have a fiance. I've got a couple cats that are running around me right now. It's funny, somebody was asking me about my hobbies, and I always have a hard time, like, naming hobbies because, like, watches were the hobby, they became the profession. And then the last couple years, like, I've been doing this a lot on this on, you know, when I'm not working. So it is a bit. It is. It is all immersive. Yeah.
- [50:20]
Rob Nutts
I mean, it's pretty non Stop, isn't it because you're able to do basically two full time jobs at once in addition to a load of traveling? Actually, maybe let's say three full time jobs. Because you're right in your event organizing. You're creating a brand and you're traveling all over the place. I've always had more than one job in the industry and I've always said that each sub, each job is relaxation from the other job. Like it's just a change is as good as a break is my philosophy. But how does it affect you when you get home? Like, I guess you probably work quite long hours a lot of the time and maybe that doesn't stop when you get home. But I mean, when you switch off, are you able to come down from that high level of operation or do you struggle with it?
- [50:59]
Zach Weiss
Personally, I can come down from it. I think you make me sound way more astute than I really am, you know. Well, you know, and also, you know, once again, to be clear, one of the great things about WarnerWild now is that we have employees. So like event organizing, I don't really do. You know, it's like, I mean we have, you know, Kyle and Nelly and Myra, they're organizing the events. You know, be advised, we guide things and show up a lot of the time. Now back in the day, you know, when we first, you know, for a few years of. Several years of doing wind up. Yeah, I mean it was brutal. Like we would. The setup and the breakdown and everything was just, it was all, it was, it was all encompassing. But now, now there's, now there's more space like I said to kind of be able to do this. But yeah, there is. I mean there is definitely. I know you said about like switching between the different things we do and that can be tricky. I definitely think sometimes like writing in particular is a specific mindset that it can't always just like flip into it kind of like I kind of need to like ease into being able to write like a full long article or a script or something like that. So I kind of need to, I don't know, somehow transition between different things. Designing I find relaxing though. And like I can do it all the time and I often I'll design while watching, you know, TV and things like that too. It's just, you know, I'm just at times just moving little things around, changing little colors, you know. And then other times it's more intensive. So I also have a lot of photography which I also find quite like it's immersive but it's, like, not stressful, you know, it's like a lot of fun.
- [52:53]
Rob Nutts
Yeah, There we go. We found your hobby. That's a hobby.
- [52:56]
Alain Ben Joseph
Surely.
- [52:57]
Rob Nutts
Photographing.
- [52:57]
Zach Weiss
Questions, though, but yeah.
- [52:58]
Rob Nutts
Oh, damn. I was so close. I thought it was gonna be like, street art or like, skyscrapers or, you know, Brooklyn by night or something, but no, just. Just watches.
- [53:07]
Zach Weiss
I need to get out more with. With my cameras, but yeah. And in general, I'm sure.
- [53:13]
Rob Nutts
You know, I always think that maybe we're. We're missing a lot of opportunities with. With our lives being so often on the road and being lucky enough to travel to different parts of the world and see different cities, to not create more content around those. I'm not saying you don't do as much as you think you should, but I know I don't do as much as I wish I had, because so many things that have happened and now like that, you know, in the moment when you just focused on the people in front of you and either getting the job done or finishing whatever pint someone has just put into your hand, you forget. And then it's all. It's all gone. But do you keep a journal of any kind to remind yourself of where you've been and what you've done?
- [53:50]
Zach Weiss
No journal. I mean, you know, Instagram and I. I mean, I do take a lot of photos wherever. Wherever I am. I might not post them, but, you know, I have my Leica with me or my phone with me. Yeah, I've never been a good journaler. I've tried that in the past. And, like, it's one of those things. It's like once it becomes. Once it becomes something I have to do or something, I can't do it. You know, it's like. It becomes like. It's like homework or something.
- [54:18]
Rob Nutts
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've not done it since I was probably about 13 or 14, and I uncovered my old diaries from those ages the other. The other day. Yeah, it's excruciating reading. They're all. They're beautifully made, little tiny books. I used to love books to be as small as possible. I used to like those micro comics that you would get in cereal boxes and whatnot. And I used to like the condensed Asterix and Tintin albums when they would make them into like A. Maybe a 5 or. Yeah, something like C6 sort of shape and size. But these diaries, man, it's just. It's painful reading. I was such a loser. And every single day ended with I heart. And then it was at least one girl's name. And some days were just like a list of like two girls alternating. I heart Jessie or do, I heart Sarah. I heart Jesse or do. And I'm like, fucking hell, it doesn't really matter, does it, Rob? Because neither one was bothered and I just, I read them. I forced myself to read them and think, I suppose life has got a little better since then. And maybe that's what scares me about journaling now, in case I read it in 10 years time. And I'm like, fuck, what a loser, right? I'm protecting my ego.
- [55:25]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah. No, I'm, for that reason, definitely glad I did not have a diary from that age, which is a wild segue
- [55:34]
Rob Nutts
back to something you said right at the start of the show. And this is going to be the last little question. And we're diving into the sort of more personal side of things and the, you know, the psychology of it because our lives look, I think oftentimes very glamorous from the outside looking in because a lot of people don't see the work that goes in between and the amount of your personality that you invest in a project like this is massive. And you said, you know, finance financially. Yeah, okay, it'd be great to be successful, but if you fail, you're not going to have bailiffs knocking down your door. The only thing on the line is your ego. And that's an interesting thing. You don't strike me as a particularly egoistic guy, but I know personally I don't think I. Maybe I do come across as an arrogant prick, actually, now I think about it. But I'm actually not that bad. But I am quite vain in the sense that I do like to be recognized for not being totally shit. And maybe if I'm being honest and self critical, that might have something to do. Why with why I haven't pushed on my own project and got it out there in the last 23 years at some point. And this is, which is why I'm impressed by what you've done and why, you know, we wish you all the best. We hope it goes really well. And I think, you know, if it can be said, I think you deserve it and fingers crossed. But what would happen to you mentally if it didn't work?
- [56:48]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, and I should also be clear, like financially would suck too. It's like a lot invested in this.
- [56:53]
Rob Nutts
But at least you have a lot of sweet watches.
- [56:56]
Zach Weiss
Yeah, I have a. Sweet watches and I have a, you know, I have a job. So like there's that. But, yeah, you know, there is a lot invested in this. A lot. You know, my personal, you know, I'm taking. Taking risks like, this feels really like me being put out there. And, you know, that's part of. Part of the doing this was, you know, to have my name associated with watch design. And, you know, it's why I did put my. My name on the back of it, which, you know, I know not. Not everyone's does. I mean, a lot of people are fortunate. They can have their name on the dial in some way, shape or form, but none of my names were trademarkable or they were taken. So. So, yeah, I mean, if it's. If it's an utter disaster, if people hate it, it's, you know, it's very much coming back at like, well, I was wrong. Right? I was. This, this time, this, you know, theory I had on my taste, my design skills was all. Was all wrong. And that would. That would certainly be very embarrassing. And, you know, so I'm. I'm hoping that I'm fairly confident won't happen, you know, but, you know, there's. That's. That's the risk, you know, and. Yeah, yeah.
- [58:12]
Rob Nutts
Well, look, there's nothing to be embarrassed about, however it goes, because the only embarrassing thing is not to try. And you are trying. You're taking the risk, you're putting yourself out there, and I don't think you've got much to worry about. But if it did not go the way you wanted to, I would say may not be the fact that you were wrong. It may just be you might be ahead of your time. You might have missed a window by a year or two. Ironically, so much in this industry does just come down to timing. I think that you are hitting the market at the right time, so we wish you all the best. Thank you. Yeah, I can't wait to see pieces in real life. Right, we'll wrap it up there. Zach, it has been an absolute pleasure talking to you and can't wait to see you in person, hopefully in Geneva. And I'm sure you'll have one of the Aura Oreo watches on your wrist. And if any of our listeners have questions for Zach, and I'm sure many of them will, because I think this is a topic that engages so many of our community who have aspirations of their own to eventually make their own watch brand and bring their dreams to life, then please do reach out to us via the usual channels. You can contact us on Instagram, therealtime show, or via the official contact form on www.therealtime.show. we'll be back soon with top quality watch content and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.