Re-evaluating Value In Watches With Jean-Sébastien Coste Of Le Forban Sécurité Mer

Summary

The Real Time Show

Episode: Re-evaluating Value In Watches With Jean-Sébastien Coste Of Le Forban Sécurité Mer
Date: May 10, 2026
Host(s): Rob Nudds & David Vaucher
Guest: Jean-Sébastien Coste (Le Forban Sécurité Mer)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the revival of French watch brand Le Forban Sécurité Mer. Guest Jean-Sébastien Coste shares his personal journey from a corporate career to watch entrepreneurship, discusses the realities of French watchmaking today, and explores themes of value, heritage, and the challenges of producing accessible, quality mechanical watches in France. The conversation branches into industry insights, design philosophy, and the evolving landscape of microbrands.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jean-Sébastien Coste’s Background and Brand Revivals

• Life change & passion for watches: Left a large company 10 years ago to pursue watchmaking, first reviving the Triton brand (luxury/tool watch, €4,000–€5,000 price range).
• Recognized a gap for more affordable, quality watches accessible to a wider audience, leading to the revival of Le Forban Sécurité Mer in 2019, starting with the Malouine and later the Marseillaise.
  • "I was an employee in a big company and I was all my lifelong passionate for watches... reviving the brand Triton... In 2019... I wanted to do something... for affordable watch, quality watch for... many more people." (01:02)

2. Process & Challenges of Reviving Heritage Brands

• The revival process required tracking ownership, ensuring brand authenticity, and respecting original brand values.
• Jean-Sébastien notes that Le Forban hadn’t been diluted in the ‘90s/2000s, making it a worthy candidate for revival.

3. French Watchmaking: Capabilities & Limitations

• Emphasis on affordability: Le Forban watches target a €500 entry price, mirroring their historic value proposition.
  • "The strategy with Le Forban was to make an affordable mechanical watch to anybody. So the first price is €500. It was quite the same strategy in the 60s and the 70s..." (03:55)
• The disappearance of French mechanical movements (notably France Ebauches) means modern Le Forban watches are assembled in France (Rennes, Brittany) but use Japanese and Swiss movements, with cases made in Asia.
  • "Unfortunately, we don't have any more French movement right now... now we just put on our watches 'assembled in France', because it's assembled in Brittany, in Rennes, and we are using some movement from Japan and Switzerland..." (04:03)

4. Modern “French” Movements and Authenticity

• The “new” France Ebauches movement is actually a rebranded Swiss Soprod—Jean-Sébastien is candid about this, valuing transparency with customers.
  • "The new Francis Bush movement actually is a saprod from Switzerland, so it's just a rebranding movement... it's not a real French main movement." (09:08)
• Only Pequignet’s in-house movement remains genuinely French.
  • "To my knowledge, the real there is only one single French movement when we speak right now. It's the Pekinget and it's a fantastic movement." (09:42)

5. Price Positioning and Strategy

• Le Forban remains committed to keeping primary models under €1,000, even as movements and chronographs add complexity and cost.
• Pledges value for money and staying accessible: high-end French movements like the Pequignet Royale are too expensive for Le Forban’s market positioning.

6. Chronograph Offerings and Movement Choices

• Existing chronograph (Omaha) powered by Seiko NE86, chosen for thinness and performance, though supply is a challenge.
  • "This choice of the Seiko has been motivated just for one single reason, to make it the thinnest possible... the Seiko was a little bit thinner than the Swiss equivalent..." (13:09)
• Plans for future mechanical chronographs as heritage tributes.
  • "I'm already... everything is very clear in my mind and it's going to be a mechanical one… to make famous again this kind of chronograph." (14:09; 14:34)

7. Design Philosophy and French Identity

• Jean-Sébastien is humble about “Frenchness” as a differentiator:
  • "I don't think French watches are different from the other ones... I do hope... that there is a coherence for the range we've developed since 2019." (15:54)
• The brand invests in consistency, pride, and honoring past designs, rather than chasing trends or producing excessive models.

8. Global Market Expansion and Media Strategy

• Today, Le Forban is sold worldwide with ambitions to grow in the U.S. and North America, targeting collaboration with Hodinkee, A Blog to Watch, etc.
  • "We are selling Le4Bonne watches quite everywhere in the world. Even in Japan, even in Chile, of course in the US... our goal is to develop ... in North America..." (18:24)
• The recent launch of a unique rubber bund strap for Marseillaise generated media and collector interest.

9. Bund Strap Innovation & Historical Context

• Marseillaise model features a rubber bund strap—a first for the brand, inspired by historical straps used to avoid skin irritation from early metals.
  • "The bus comes from World War I and it was to avoid the contact of the case because steel was not stainless at the time..." (22:40)
• Commercially, reception has been positive; the strap is versatile and can be used on many watches.
  • "People like it... if you don't like it, you remove the central pad and you have a classical rubber strap..." (23:47; 26:09)

10. Best-selling Models & Wearability

• The Brestoise (“skin diver”) is the brand’s bestseller, applauded for its timeless 1960s-inspired design and wearable dimensions (compact lug-to-lug).
  • "This is our bestseller. So this is the best selling Le Forbin watch till now. So it was a tribute for the first Le Forbin watch..." (27:34)
• Jean-Sébastien emphasizes the importance of ergonomic case design over mere diameter—a point elaborated by Rob.
  • "The diameter is not really the problem. This is a lug to lug problem and many people forget that..." (28:50)
  • "You can have watches that... measure a certain distance... but if they are ergonomically curved, then the active lug to lug is reduced even further..." (30:38)

11. Approach to Limited Editions and Portfolio Consistency

• Le Forban (and Triton) avoids excessive model proliferation and “fake” limited editions.
  • "Limited edition. Not every two months... If we make a limited edition, it's going to be a true limited edition." (36:17)
• Future focuses on highly considered, heritage-driven releases, possibly a manual-wind chronograph.

12. Military Heritage and Authentic Partnerships

• Le Forban supplied the French Marine Nationale in the past but current rights for military branding are held by Yema.
• The brand continues bespoke limited runs for specialized units (e.g., French nuclear submariners, military divers), upholding the military connection authentically.
  • "Le Forbond was a partner of the Marine Nationale in the early 80s... we did develop a series of breastoire also for... the nuclear submariner letters based in Brest... less than 100 units." (37:49)

13. Quality Control, Supply Chain & French Manufacturing Realities

• Design work is done by a small in-house team, with assembly in Brittany, emphasizing stringent QC as survival for a microbrand.
  • "As a small brand... if we have a big quality problem, we are dead. So we can't play with that." (41:18)
• Attempts to source more components in France revealed limited capacity and high costs; Asian suppliers often provide better value and matching specifications.
  • "We had no choice at getting some cases from Asia... even big names are using components from Asia." (44:20)

14. Vision For The Future & Brand Values

• Le Forban aims to remain a small, value-driven company respected for honesty, design coherence, and real heritage—a brand for enthusiasts who value story and character over hype.
  • "My reward would be that people think about this brand as… very value for money… a brand that even the guy that is wearing a Rolex... buys a Le Fourbain, because... it's qualitative. And actually it's a small company. And we like also the story behind..." (46:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On honesty about French production:
  • "We don't want to lie to our customers. Unfortunately, we don't have any more French movement right now." (04:03)
• On pricing philosophy:
  • "Le Forban should be a brand with a value for money mindset... the price positioning of Le Fourbin is below €1,000." (10:59)
• On the bund strap’s historical roots:
  • "According to Gregory [Pons]... [the bund] started in the First World War... to prevent the skin to be in contact with the metal..." (21:21)
• On design and coherence:
  • "When I decided to change my life 10 years ago, I want to be proud of my work and this is maybe one of the main goals." (33:33)
• On resisting unnecessary model expansion:
  • "It's not because we are selling a thousand of watches that we're going to develop a new model to make some extra sales, you know. No, it's not my way of doing business." (35:13)
• Summing up the vision:
  • "I want the people to know that actually Le Forban is rare, even if we're not going to sell 50,000 pieces in the coming years. Because I don't want to... I want a Le Forban, not because it's not very expensive, but it's because it's qualitative." (46:16)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:02 | Jean-Sébastien Coste's personal journey and brand revivals. | | 03:55 | Challenges of reviving and producing "French" watches affordably. | | 09:08 | On the new France Ebauches movement and transparency in movements. | | 13:09 | Insights into chronograph movement choices and supply issues. | | 15:54 | What (if anything) makes French watches special. | | 18:24 | Global expansion and future plans for Le Forban. | | 21:21 | The real origins of the bund strap and its historical context. | | 23:47 | Commercial reaction to the rubber bund strap on the Marseillaise. | | 27:34 | The Brestoise: design inspiration and popularity. | | 28:50 | Lug-to-lug and the importance of case ergonomics. | | 35:13 | On brand philosophy: resisting unnecessary proliferation. | | 37:49 | Military history and limited edition projects with armed forces. | | 41:18 | Quality control and French manufacturing realities. | | 46:16 | The vision: value, community, and controlled growth. |

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Tone, Style & Final Thoughts

Jean-Sébastien Coste maintains an honest, understated, and passionate tone throughout. Conversations are candid about industry challenges, the limited scope of French manufacturing, and the true nature of "French" watches today. The episode is a love letter to honest watchmaking: small scale, value-focused, and grounded in real history rather than marketing spin. The hosts are enthusiastic, add industry perspectives, and clearly connect with the brand’s philosophy.

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For Further Information

• Le Forban Sécurité Mer Official Website
• Contact the hosts via Instagram @herealtimeshow or via their website's contact form.

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Summary by The Real Time Show Podcast Summarizer.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Watch fans. And welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Knudds and our resident provocateur, David Vaucher. Interviewing Jean Sebastian Cost from Les Fabent, a brand David is very, very fond of because they are from his homeland, France. So I'll kick it over to our provocateur to introduce this brand a little further.

[B]

That's right. So today we are very happy to welcome Jean Sebastien Cost from Le Fourbain Securitez. Mer. So I'm going to go full on with the French pronunciations today. And this is a brand that I learned about a couple years ago, I would say. And I was just really taken by the mix of vintage designs. Good price, good quality and just, yeah, I'm really excited to see this rebirth of French watchmaking. So I don't want to steal too much of our guest thunder up front. So, Jean Sebastian, please tell us about Le Fauban, the brand, and tell us about your journey to being the head of this brand and redeveloping it.

[C]

Thanks for welcoming me this podcast. So the first thing that, you know, in 10 years ago, I changed my life and I wanted to dream about my future and to change. I was an employee in a big company and I was all my lifelong passionate for watches and I, I switched my life 10 years ago, reviving the brand Triton. So it's a luxury brand, Not a luxury. In the 60s it was a tool watch, but it was the beginning of the story. But Triton is, the positioning of Triton is more or less between 4,000 and €5,000. And so it's not for everybody. So in 2019, so four years after having revived the brand Triton, I wanted to do something, I mean, for affordable watch, quality watch for, I would say, many more people. So. And as a collectionist or Collectionist. Yeah, as a collectionist, you know, I knew the brand Le Forbin Security. Mer. The story is very nice because from the 60s to the 80s, they only made diving watches on chronographs. So. And so in 2019, we decided to revive this brand with the Malwin. And the story is going on now with the Marseille. Yes, we just launched in September.

[B]

So take us through the process, because to revive a brand is something that others have done. Is it a straightforward process? I mean, do you sort of have to track down who owns the name for this?

[C]

I was, I was experienced with Triton, so I had the knowledge to reproduce, I would say the story. What I liked about this brand, it was not spoiled in the 90s or in the 20s, in the year 2000 with some bad watches. So the story was deserving to be revived.

[B]

And when, when you were going about this, obviously you had experience with, with Triton beforehand. One of the things that I'm really interested about within French watchmaking is, is bringing back some of the manufacturing capacity. Because now when we say a French watch, we really might mean French assembled. So when, when. And that's not. I don't think that's being offensive. I think that's just the way things are. So when you were going about this project and trying to priced it out, what were you looking at in terms of capabilities in France to make this happen?

[C]

The strategy with Le Forbin was to make an affordable mechanical watch to anybody. So the first price is €500. But it was quite the same strategy in the 60s and the 70s. Le Forban was a good value for money watches in the 60s and the 70s. So we just reproduced a strategy from the pioneers of Le Forbin regarding the French watches concept. So, yeah, so we don't want to lie to our customers. So unfortunately, we don't have any more French movement right now. We had Francais boches in the 60s and 70s and unfortunately this fantastic movement, it was very, very good movement, as good as a Swiss and it disappeared in the 90s. So now we just put on our watches assembled in France, because it's assembled in Brittany, in Rennes, and we are using some movement from Japan and Switzerland. Of course, all the cases are made in Asia, but not only Loflor, but I guess, I guess many people know that. But all the big brands, even some very big names, are using components from IPA now.

[A]

Are there any plans to work with?

[C]

The reborn is very bad.

[A]

Yeah. What's happening there? Just let me mute you like last n you saw. David, your headphones, your wires are interrupting.

[C]

This is.

[A]

The echo's coming. So if I cancel your. If I mute your channel, then we're okay. You need to take those headphones out, I think, and use something else.

[B]

Is that better?

[A]

Take them out of the computer.

[B]

Yeah, but I can't. Sorry, hang on. I just can't hear anything now. Can Rob, can you hear me?

[A]

Yeah, I can hear you.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I can hear you.

[B]

Yeah, Better. Okay, good. I'll take him out.

[C]

They unplugged?

[B]

Yeah, they're unplugged.

[A]

Still getting massive feedback on your side.

[C]

Yes, there is still the last anymore. I can hear it. It's back on force.

[A]

Yeah. So I've muted David, now you can hear Everything fine, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what happened, David. It just suddenly rushed off. Is there any way you can unplug your mic?

[B]

Yeah. Better. No, that's very strange.

[A]

Never had that kind of feedback.

[B]

I have echo cancellations on. I don't know if that's a setting I need to turn off. But you can hear me as I'm speaking now, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

When you're speaking?

[B]

Yeah. I've got nothing plugged in. It's just the computer.

[A]

Leave it as it is. Now. That's better. There's less fear. Keep talking.

[C]

Yeah. Can you hear me now?

[A]

I can hear perfectly. Yeah. It's just.

[C]

It's okay now. It seems to be okay again.

[A]

When David's channel's active, we can't hear anything. David. Maybe try leaving the room and coming back in. We live and learn. Well, I guess the worst case scenario is if he can't function as a contributing member, I can get him to type me all the questions he wants to ask into WhatsApp and I can ask him. He's done his research.

[C]

You see, in French we say systeme because you know what I mean.

[A]

I understand what you mean. Yeah. That's basically our daily lifestyle. I wonder where he is. There he is. Let him into the lobby.

[C]

Not in the darknet.

[B]

Better?

[C]

Yeah. Seems to be okay now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Still getting lots of feedback when none of us are speaking, so I'll mute you in between.

[B]

I've got a fridge near me and a microwave. I don't see why that would do anything, but I don't know. I tell you what. Yeah, let me. Let me do this. Since I'm just using this, I'm going to go to a desk next door and we'll see if that makes a difference. Sorry about this, everyone. This is. This is not convenient. I know. It's just really strange.

[A]

That's much better. You know, the. The feedback's disappeared.

[B]

Okay, so Isaiah's being near an appliance is not a good thing, apparently.

[A]

That's probably what it is, man. Probably what it is.

[B]

Okay. Sorry about that.

[A]

All right, no worries. So. Right, I will.

[C]

Let's go on.

[A]

We're good to go. Is there any plan to use the new Francis Bush movements now that that company's been re established and they're now flooding out into the market?

[C]

The new Francis Bush movement actually is a saprod from Switzerland, so it's just a rebranding movement. I do have a lot of respect for Serprod because we are using Sir Prade as a Movement for Triton, for the subfotic model. But to tell you the truth, it's not a real French main movement.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

It's my point of view. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, no, that's fair enough. And I guess to clarify for the listeners, France was hit really hard by the court's crisis.

[C]

To my knowledge, the real there is only one single French movement when we speak right now. It's the Pekinget and it's a fantastic movement.

[B]

So. So they have. Okay, so yeah, I suppose we could, we could go off in that direction for a little bit. So for the listeners, France was hit really hard by the quartz crisis actually and never really recovered to the extent the Swiss did. There were a lot of movement manufacturers and like you said, so Pekinier maybe 15 years ago now came out with what they called the Calibre Royale, which was actually quite a complicated movement. But they now have one called the Calibre Initial, which is a three hander, I think. I don't know if it has a

[C]

date complication, but yeah, I don't have any clue about this movement. But it's a French one, I guess

[B]

so it's meant to be a customer caliber, I think. But having said that. So you have just come out and I know we're jumping around here, but you've come out with a watch called the Mercies, which has a Swiss movement in it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that gets you to a price point that I think is about double what your other watches cost. I think you're around €1,000 with that, correct? Yes.

[C]

Just below €1,000. This is. Yes.

[B]

Would it even make sense within your strategy to eventually go for something like the Peking? Yeah. I mean wouldn't that take you out of your, your price band or do you think the.

[C]

No, no, the Peking. Yeah, I don't know the price of the initial, to tell you the truth. So I, I'm not able to, to answer you correctly about this movement because I don'. Right now but for the Royale, I know it and it's very expensive. It's not at all in the strategy of Le Forban. Le Forban should be a brand with a value for money mindset. And this is what we did till now. And so I would say the main, the price positioning of the ForBonne is below €1,000 for I would say three hands movement. But for chronograph of course we have a true legit team Macy, I guess to make some chronographs. So I would be proud to launch a new Chronograph in the coming years with Le Forbin.

[B]

And I presume that would be some kind of maybe mecha quartz movement, because to get a chronograph under, well, I guess maybe we're not talking €500 now for a chronograph, we're talking a higher price.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Right now we do have a chronograph with a Seiko movement and it's called Dioma Tribute for the d day of 1944. Sorry, but we are thinking about launching a new chronograph in the coming years, maybe for the birthday of the brand, within four years now. But if you go on our website now, we pictured all the vintage watches, Le Forban, some of them. And you will notice that there are a lot of many, many chronographs and very nice ones.

[A]

Talking of that chronograph, the Omaha, it's powered by the Seiko NE86. You're right.

[C]

Absolutely. Yes, that's right.

[A]

Very few watches, far too few in my opinion, use those NE series chronographs from Seiko, which I've got a lot of time for. I think they're really excellent value and really good performers and nicely finished for the money. But what's your experience of them from an after sales perspective? Are they good out there in the wild?

[C]

Yes, we don't have any problems right now to get to. In the supply perspective, it's not very good. To tell you the truth, it was quite tough to get those movements in small quantities till now. The quality is very good and this choice of the Seiko has been motivated just for one single reason, to make it the thinnest possible. And the Seiko was a little bit thinner than the Swiss equivalent one from Sellita or La Jouperre. And this is the reason why we chose the Silico to make it the thinnest possible to grab some 0.3 millimeters.

[A]

So, as David alluded to before, when you do introduce more chronographs to the collection and nod to that previous heritage of the brand, will you stick mechanical or will you employ some mecha quartz for the first time?

[C]

I'm already. I can't tell what I'm thinking about for this new chronograph, but everything is very clear in my mind and it's going to be a mechanical one.

[B]

Well, there you have it.

[C]

We like to have scoops with a Swiss one.

[B]

That's exciting. So we like to have scoops and hot takes for our listeners. So there you go. There's a hot take if you're a fan of.

[C]

To tell you the truth, I don't take any risks because my idea is to reproduce a fantastic vintage one to get a tribute for me, to my father, for you, for your grandfathers. That were fun. I mean, those people were working so well in the 60s and the 70s. So my goal would be to make now to make famous again this kind of chronograph. So not very regional, but just a tribute to those people that were able to send people on the Moon in 1969. It was unbelievable when you think about it, with those. The computer of the era, for sure.

[B]

Yeah. There's probably more computing power in, like, my. For sure. So I want to take this in a bit of a different direction, and it's something I ask every French brand I speak with. What is it about a French watch that makes it different? So if I have a choice today, I can choose from, like Rob would tell you, a German watch is fantastic. He could also tell you, like, a British watch is fantastic, but you can go Swiss as well. So now France is trying to make a comeback. So what makes a French watch different from all the other choices on the market?

[C]

I don't think French watches are different from the other ones. I'm not able to answer this question. I mean, I do hope. I do hope for Le Fourant, at least, that there is a coherence for the range we've developed since 2019. This is the point. But I can't tell that we are better than the others or worse than the others. No, I don't think so. I am not able to answer that. Regarding Le Forban, I do hope that people can realize that the range is current and nice. I do hope so, and this is the only answer I can give. But, yeah.

[B]

So in that case, do you find that you have maybe. I don't want to say trouble, but it must be somewhat difficult, though, like with Tritan, for example. So Tritan is a brand that I've come across because I'm French, and within France, there's always a market, obviously, for French products. But if you're Gonna sell a €5,000 watch from a brand that, because it's French, maybe isn't as well known as some of the Swiss brands. Like, does that present challenges for you? And if so, how do you overcome them?

[C]

Yes, yes, of course. Selling a watch at €5,000, it's, of course, a big, big challenge. I have some ideas maybe to facilitate, maybe to give a tribute to the French movement in the coming years. We. I have many ideas for Triton in the coming years. But again, I can't comment about that because I don't want to disclose the ideas we have about Triton. But we have ideas to rejuvenate the brand in 2026 and 2027, hopefully.

[B]

And in terms of markets for these watches, obviously in France, I know about a lot of brands that I wouldn't have if I still lived in the US because they're just better marketed here. So do you find that when you're selling Le Fauband watches, is the primary consumer still very much in France or have you been able to branch out perhaps into Europe and maybe even. Even yes,

[C]

we are selling Le4Bonne watches quite everywhere in the world. Even in Japan, even in Chile, of course in the US In Germany a lot. A lot also in in the US but we are beginning. This is only the beginning. This is my goal. So we are going to make efforts to develop ourselves in North America. We never attended an exhibition in the U.S. or in Canada. This is maybe our goal in 2026, attending an exhibition and trying to try to develop ourselves there because we do think we have the right portfolio to develop ourselves on the yeah, this is the goal. The goal is to develop cells in North America and 2020 or we already sell which is in North America. Hopefully we will have coverage regarding the Marseilles with Odin Key on the. You will get that with Odin Key and Oceana sequel A block to you will cut. So hopefully we will have a review about the Marseilles with a Block to Watch on Inke early January.

[B]

That'll be awesome to see. I have no idea. I didn't know about this until you just told me but I know James Stacy is kind of a reference in the industry for dive watch reviews so so hopefully he's the one handling it and look forward to reading about that. It's going to be exciting.

[C]

Hopefully. Yes. I don't want to cross fingers but there should be a content within those two major US media in general. But I guess those reviews are coming also from the fact that we developed for the first time a band strap in rubber. It brought some interest from those big media about our brand because it was the first time so till now it was just in leather. So we do hope that it will help us to develop sales in 2026.

[B]

So let's talk about that because I was at so you and I met actually at the We Love Watches show which was in Paris a couple months ago and I saw this for the first time and so just to repeat for the listeners. This watch, the Marseillaise, has a bun strap which is usually for pilots and it's on leather. You have actually made one in rubber for a dive watch. So is this something that is historically accurate? Is this something that was on watches from when the brand was first around? Or is this something that you have now introduced as a new, new aspect of this watch?

[C]

Actually, I'm not sure. You're absolutely right regarding this strap used only by Air Force, because, you know, I asked the questions to people that have very deep knowledge about watching history. For example, Gregory Pons in Switzerland and when I introduced him the, the project of the dive band, he told me about the story of this strap. And actually it started in the First World War, World War I, because the metal of the watch cases were not very qualitative and it was just to prevent the skin to be in contact with the metal to avoid any skin injury or allergy. So this, according to this guy and Gregory is very, he's very well, he knows very well the subject. It was not at the beginning used by the Air Force.

[B]

Interesting. So, okay, so then it is historically accurate. I'm assuming it would have been in rubber if it was used by divers, for example, or like a maybe, maybe

[C]

it has been used because, you know, so first I would say the prototype of the dive band of the band, sorry, so started in World War I and then it has been used by the Air Force, maybe the German one for this name later on, maybe In World War II or in the 50s, it was used also by the GIs during the Vietnam War. But originally, according to Gregory, and I'm sure he knows very well the subject, so the bus comes from World War I and it was to avoid the contact of the case because still was not stainless at the time and it was to avoid any allergy and to put, to put, you know, not to avoid the contact between the skin on the, on the, on the strap. On the. Sorry. On the, on the case. So much.

[B]

So let's talk commercially then. A bun strap, even on a leather bun on a pilot watch is, is kind of a style move. Like not everyone's going to want to do that. So what has the reception been to this Bundt strap on. On the Maciez then.

[C]

Yeah, it's very positive. It's very good. So to tell you the truth, me, I love band strap. And a few years ago I did make tailor made band strap for a Triton sub fatigue and I was wearing my Triton with this kind of strap, of course in leather this was the beginning of the idea because I couldn't, of course, swim with my watch with this leather strap. And then when we launched the Marseillaise, you know, few brands had developed also a money case before us, even if we talked about that in the same time, during the same time. But we had a marketing problem how to present this new watch, even if it's thinner, if it's a little bit smaller, easier for us, more elegant and easier to watch. But this is, of course, our subjective point of view. And it was also a way of differentiating and presenting the Marseillaise differently. And one more comment I want to tell about that is that when we launched the Le Marseillaise in September, you know, we were straight about, about launching a new diving watch in a saturated market. So it was a way also of giving a little bit energy to this new watch and to say, okay, we can do the things differently. This is maybe the kind of thing we are expecting from a microbrand, giving some use, some energy to a market or where. Where everything has been done till now. So, yes, so it's positive and people like it. Of course, many people also will dislike it, but if you don't like it, you remove the central pad and you have a classical rubber strap. So, I mean, there is, you know, there is no problem.

[B]

Yeah, no, I totally agree. So again, when we met, I was able to see this particular watch and you showed me if you don't like the bund, you take it off and you wear it as a classic watch, which is great. And I suppose I'm gonna, like, trigger a bunch of people, but the early Panerais, people dove with them with leather straps as well. So I suppose the idea is just wear whatever you like and, you know.

[C]

Yeah. And you can. The interesting thing also is you can use it as an accessory with another watch.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[C]

Because the size is 20 millimeters, I would say 90% of the watches. So it's very easy to order it and to put it with any kind of watch, Rolex, Omega, any brand. I mean, it works very well.

[A]

I've got to say that I love it, if only for the unusualness and how strange it is. I'm also a fan of leather bun straps, so maybe that puts me at a slight advantage. But when I see it, I'm like, oh, that's cool. They've just embraced the concept. It feels perfectly suited to the intended environment of use. But for me, my favorite model in the collection, and I'm probably going to destroy the pronunciation here, is the breastoise the skin diver. I would say it's a beautiful, I'd say 1960s maybe inspired design. Tell me about this watch. Tell me about the development of it and how popular is that one? Because I think that this kind of style of watch is having a real moment now.

[C]

Yeah, actually you're right because this is our bestseller. So this is the best selling Le Forbin watch till now. So it was a tribute for the first Le Forbin watch. We didn't invent anything and in the 60s many other brands used this kind of dials. So I would say when we launched the Malwin, it was the first model we launched. It was good success too. But when we launched maybe one year or two years later, the Brestoise. Yes, it has been the best seller so far. So far, yeah. This is the best selling Le Fourbin watch. Our goal is to make La Marseillaise to equal this result in the coming year, hopefully.

[B]

I second Rob's opinion on the Bressoise. That is probably the next watch I would buy myself if that were coming up. Yep. And one thing I don't think we've talked about is the size because it is a, it's a smaller size dive watch. Right. I think it's like 38 millimeters if I remember correctly, which is interesting. Can you talk about whether I'm assuming that was closer to historical sizes prior?

[C]

Yes, it's, it's very close, maybe a little bit more, but, but one, one thing I want to, to, to say about the size, it's everybody's talk about the, the diameter, but I disagree a little bit. The diameter is not really the problem. This is a lug to lug problem and many people forget that. They say, oh, what is the diameter? 39, 40, 37. But I would say those three diameters are quite easy to wear. The problem is the lug to lug size. And all our watches in the Le Fourbain brand are very conservative for the lug to lug size. So they are very, very easy to we even for a small wrist. And I want to insist on that point because people don't know that and please, they should look at the leg to leg size. And also all our design are very curved for the case shape. It means that on the wrist is really, really nice. You know, again, on pictures you can't see when you see a. All the watches of course on picture are very nice, but when you put it on the wrist, this is not every time the case. And with Le Forbin, all our watches, if you notice, if you go on our website, we insist on that point. So this is very conservative in terms of lug to lug size. For example, for the breast trousers on The Malwind, it's 45 millimeter and it's very curved. So it's very nice on the wrist.

[B]

Yeah, Rob, put together, I think it was. You told me about this, Rob, like a couple years ago, your wearability index for watches.

[A]

Well, it's actually a visual impact index. The wearability index was the second step of that project, which I haven't released yet because it is very complicated to express. Because there's one thing that I always talk about when it comes to the lug to lug measurement. It's the active. Active lug to lug measurement. You can have watches that on the flat of a table, measure a certain distance, say 45, say even. But if they are ergonomically curved, then the active lug to lug is reduced even further. So it's worth getting these watches on the wrist. You know, if you've got like a classic inspired skin diver like the Breastoise that has already very wearable diameters and a very compact lug to lug, getting it on the wrist will show that it can be even more comfortable than you could imagine. I'm going to shut up now about wearability because I get very passionate about it. But, yeah, good job. Looks great.

[B]

So going back to designs then. The Breastoise has a design which Rob and I, when we were speaking before this interview, we said, okay, it looks a bit like the Glacier cq. But then we were like, okay, but it looks like other things as well. It's a very, I suppose, typical design of 60s diver's watches.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So given that you're a heritage brand, you're obviously putting a lot of thought into modern wearability and modern sensibilities to sell them. But how much of your design work is just almost copying previous designs because you're a heritage brand? And how much of it is your kind of flavor that you add because you think it will just look good?

[C]

Can you repeat your question? I didn't understand how much.

[B]

When you look at a watch like the Breastoise, what percentage of that will be the design from. From previous Le Fauban watches? And how much of it will be your influence on. On the modern day?

[C]

Except. Except I would say. So the skin diver watch, I would say this is the main, the main, the main thing we are inspired, but then, I mean, we just take this DNA and we designed ourselves everything. So it was a feuille blanche so of course the dialer we know, the skin diver DNA, we know this very typical dial used by many brands in the 60s. But then with my colleague Osseon and our fellow designer Edith, we designed by ourselves everything, everything.

[B]

And I'm assuming that because you're such a small brand, it sounds like there's three of you. Correct me if I'm wrong but because you're so small, can you then take feedback from customers to incorporate in future models? Or is this all just basically your vision that you're presenting to people?

[C]

No, no, this is, for example, me. Me, you know, for the. I do hope, I told that previously. I do hope that when people look at our range they can feel that there is an inspiration and it's not, you know, when you see about the big names in all the big names. Me, I love watches from the big names. But when you look at the big names for the Wool Ranger, sometimes it's a disappointment because you can feel that they want to address every niche of the market just to make money. This is not our goal. Me, you know, when I decided to change my life 10 years ago, I want to be proud of my work and this is maybe one of the main goals. And so yeah, it's a question of pride. And I do hope that people can feel that the Breastoise and Marseillaise, Breastoise and Malouin have something to say. The Rochelle is different. The Martius is different. Dioma is different. Also. We are not going to launch a non diving watch with Le Forbard. No, no, not often. Absolutely not. No. I want to keep something true, small and cohesive. Cohesive or current, I don't, you will correct me, but I do hope, do you understand what I mean?

[B]

Consistency in the brand basically is what you're saying. So on that point, in terms of

[C]

consistency, I'm going to give you an example. For example, Triton. Triton. So we have now two models. We have the Spirotechnik and the Subfotic. We're going to keep two models now, you know, we're not going to launch a third model. Even if we were selling, you know, thousands of watches per month. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not because we are selling a thousand of watches that we're going to develop a new model to make some extra sales, you know. No, it's not my way of doing business.

[B]

That's, you know, that's impressive because I think every brand you can think of just gets caught in this spiral of well, I did well once, I should do well Two times, three times, four times. And in the watch industry there's a couple of brands. I won't name them here, but they can become punchlines because they basically just have one or two models and they just, you know, different versions of them and it kind of dilutes the brand. So I think that's interesting. You want to. You're going to stick to that path.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So now, you know, for Le Forbin. So of course we're going to make extra dice to make, you know, for the Marseillaise for maybe special development, you know, a limited edition. But again, limited edition. Not every two months. Limited edition. It's limited edition. It's not 2,000 units, you know, for me it's not anymore a limited edition. I'm sorry. So. No, so it's not. So this is not our way of doing business. Again. So if we make a limited edition, it's going to be a true limited edition. A true limited edition. It's not going to be a limited edition every two months. I don't want that. And again, so maybe the next development will be just a chronograph with mechanical winding and that's it.

[B]

So I want to talk about big brands and something that they may have done that helped you, but I want to get your thoughts on this. So Tudor, obviously, the Marine national is huge. It's a popular collection within Tudor and I think they've popularized the French military watch. And obviously Le Forbon, at least as I understand it, has an actual military heritage. These were used by the Marine Nationale in the mid century. So has anyone approached you about making limit. I mean, to the extent you can say, obviously. But is there any. Any current demand for watches that might be used by current personnel?

[C]

So right now I guess Yema has the right to use the Marine national ward because they signed an agreement with the Marine national and yes, you're right. So Le Forbond was a partner of the Marine Nationale in the early 80s with a monanquet, I would say the grandma of the Marseillaise with a quartz movement. There was maybe a series of 80 or 90 watches. A true limited edition. Again. So. Yes, and I can tell you that, yes, that we are investigating about developing some partnership with some militaries. Yes, but it's not going to be Marine national and we won't be able to communicate about Marine national because it's belonging to Yema right now. But yes, we can. We have the right to sell some watches to military Corps. I don't know if it is the right name In English again. But we did develop actually a series of breastoires with the submariners people, because I don't know again, the right name in English with the nuclear submariner letters based in Brest we sold. So they were. It was a very small edition, it was maybe less than 100 units. And I was very proud about this partnership. And I've been invited in Brest to visit the Terrible. I of course, very impressed. And we also. We developed a series of breastoise also for, you know, for the Plonger Demineur, you know, nurse. It's not. I don't remember the name. Hyperbariste. Yes. So, you know, if you have a problem when you dive, those people can cure you, you know. And we did. So we developed two series of watches based on the Breastoise. So in the past years, and we expect to launch something with the Marseillaise, because the Marseillaise people say Marseille, Marseill. I don't want to go into this kind of debate. I would say stupid debate, but Marseille, it's not only the city of Marseille, but it's also the French national anthem. So I can tell you that people from the army I met are very interested to develop some limited edition in the coming years.

[B]

So that, I guess maybe that means I'm neutral, because when I first heard La Marseillaise, I just go to the anthem. I mean, I live near Paris, so I guess I don't have any preference between either of the two coastal cities. But yeah, no, I think that's super interesting. And I guess it brings to mind the question. We've already. We've spoken about designs, but you're now talking about watches that have to be technically proficient, at least in some sense. So as a small brand, how do you maintain that level of. Of technical excellence? I'm presuming you're relying on your suppliers a lot to do that for you as well. But how is the QC managed to make sure that they actually work in the field?

[C]

So for the design. So all our watches have been designed in partnership with Eddie Bergener for the pioneer of design. This last year, in September, I guess there was an article about this guy because he developed the. For Tag Heers all the watches in the 80s, most of the famous one. So you can imagine that this guy has a very good knowledge. So for the conception of the watches, I mean, it's perfect. And then of course, yes, we are working with suppliers that are experienced and all our watches are assembled in Brittany, in Rennes, in Atelier Lafayette, and again with skilled people. They have A lot of experience, you know, as a small brand, as you say, I mean, we can't take any risks. It means that if we have a big quality problem, I mean we are dead. So we can't play with that. We can't take any risks. And we do have, till now, I knock on wood. But we don't have any, we don't have, we never had a quality problem. I mean a major issue with Le Sorba.

[B]

So that opens up another Pandora's box because I think people, you know, we talked about your supply chain relying on Asian suppliers. But my point of view is that actually you can get some excellent work done. And I mean there's nothing to say that because something is made in one place or another, it's necessarily worse. I think they'll just, they're just going to work off a spec sheet basically. So if you want for a low price, they're going to give you low price equipment. If you want, want for a high price, they're going to give you high priced equipment. So I suppose my question then is even if you wanted to, could you do this level price aside, could you get this level of quality done in France or is this something that you just have to go outside the borders?

[C]

It's a good question. I'm able to answer you because when we launched Le Forbin my goal was to, to get some French suppliers. So I took my car, it was during, you know, the Gilets Jaune years and I took my car and I visited all the, you know, the Jura part of France, east of France, border of Switzerland and I discovered only so there is still one supplier of hand called La Pratique and we do have a partnership with them. And I met also one company, I don't remember the name, very nice people that were making still, that were still making some components for the watch industry, for Chanel and so on. But that's it, that's it. Even you know, for Triton when I, you know, of course as a small company we are not able to order 1000 case. It's impossible. So in the industry the minimum order Quantity is usually 300 units. When I contacted Swiss suppliers to get some cases, I mean, instead of telling me no, they have given me prices. Absolutely stupid. So we had no choice at getting some cases from Asia. But I would say you can forgive that for a brand microbrand like Le Forbin or Triton or the other ones. But people have to know that even big names are using components from Azure. So I say big names.

[B]

No, it's true. I agree. I mean, I've done my own kind of research in the background for some other projects. And yeah, we could talk about this for hours, I think.

[C]

But, you know, it's not a question of also of profit only. There is a capacity of production in Switzerland that is limited. So some Swiss companies do go to Asia just to make more profit, but there are also companies that can't be supplied by the capacity of production in Switzerland.

[B]

On. Yeah, yeah. So we're coming towards the rough end of the. The interview, I think. Could you describe. So obviously Le Fant's got some momentum behind it. What would you like the brand to look like in. In five years? I mean, what's kind of the. The summary of where you'd like to be five, maybe even ten years from now?

[C]

Me, My. My reward would be that this is. This. It would be for. My reward would be that people think about this brand as a micro brand, but very value for Monaghan, but a brand that even the guy that is wearing a Rolex, he doesn't want to take any risks on the beach, but he buys a wall. Le Fourbain, because Le Forbin is a small production, is going to keep on. We are going to keep on this small production because, you know, behind any company, you have human realities. Me, I'm not 35, you know, I don't want to get on helicopter. You know, I don't want to be Elon Musk. I don't mind. So Le Forbonne is going to be. To keep this small production. So I want the people to know that actually Le Forban is rare, even if we're not going to sell 50,000 pieces in the coming years. Because I don't want to. I don't want to. So it's going to be a small company by, I would say creature. This is. And I would like the people to say, okay, I want a Le Forbin, not because it's not very expensive, but it's because it's qualitative. And actually it's a small company. And we like also the story behind the product, the watch.

[A]

Well, that is what we like to hear. Creative people working for their community and not going too far outside of Elaine, focusing on the watch community, providing them something different, something with heritage and something that is very, very attainable. I've been falling in love with the brand while you've been talking for the last 45 minutes. And I think that it's going to be a watch I do add to my own collection because certainly with the breastoise so wearable, so attractive, so timeless as well. So Jean Sebastian, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate you coming on to the Real Time show and getting on air in front of our listeners and explaining them a little bit more about the brand. If you have any questions for Jean Sebastian or for the brands or for David, I, Alon or Scarlett, then please do get in touch touch via the usual channels. You can contact us on Instagram herealtime Show. You can contact Alon, David or me via email at either our first name herealtime show or via the official website on the contact form that's www.therealtime show. Please like follow, subscribe and share. We'll be back soon with more top quality watch content. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking. It.