Royal Pop Chat — SCROB Analyses The Audemars Piguet x Swatch Collaboration

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Real Time Show

Episode: Royal Pop Chat — SCROB Analyses The Audemars Piguet x Swatch Collaboration
Hosts: Rob Nudds & Scarlet Baker
Date: May 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

This vibrant, conversational episode dives into the biggest watch industry collaboration of 2026: the Swatch x Audemars Piguet Royal Pop. Host Rob Nudds and guest Scarlet Baker (nickname: Scrob) dissect every facet of the launch, from product philosophy and design choices to industry impact, launch-day chaos, scaling strategies, and the broader cultural significance. With a mix of industry insight, anecdotes, and direct experience handling the Royal Pop ahead of launch, Scarlet offers a passionate defense of the collaboration, while Rob explores its many controversies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Product Launch & First Impressions

[01:34] Scarlet’s First Encounter:

• Scarlet attended a pre-launch unveiling; the collaboration was heavily teased, with the final reveal inciting an immediate, positive reaction:

  “My first reaction was like, oh, my God. Yes, yes, yes, yes... I stand exactly by that same sentiment, that I think this was a phenomenal collaboration for many reasons.” (A, 01:34)

• She emphasizes how “inescapable” pre-launch buzz was, reaching beyond the watch enthusiast ecosystem into everyday spaces.

[02:55] Presentation & Format:

• Scarlet highlights the power of surprise: the product was not a wristwatch but a “Pop Swatch”-style accessory—marking a deliberate move to avoid redundancy with previous wristwatch collabs and to preserve AP’s provocative, boundary-pushing spirit.
• Scarlet:

  “I loved it. I love how they've presented it. I love the actual product, the colorways… I love the fact that we're seeing a new System 51 hand-wound movement.” (A, 01:34)

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2. Why Not a Wristwatch?

[07:00] Commercial Considerations:

• Rob suggests a wristwatch would have shifted more units, but Scarlet defends the decision:

  “It's not a commercial objective here... AP don't need to cash in and get an extra, like what, 3 million or whatever.” (A, 07:17)

• Both agree that making it a wristwatch would have diluted AP’s brand and appeared as a shallow cash grab.

[08:06] Preserving Brand Identity:

• Scarlet:

  “We know AP to be provocative. Whether you love that provocation or not, they were never gonna go down an exceptionally traditional route here, and I endorse that entirely.” (A, 06:53)

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3. Cultural Impact and Audience Reach

[04:00] Watch Launch Buzz:

• Scarlet recounts the mainstream reach, with people far outside the watch community discussing the release.
• She credits the proliferation of AI renderings and digital speculation as a major source of pre-launch hype and fatigue.

[12:23] Educating the Next Generation:

• Scarlet sees the collaboration as “bridging a gap,” educating people about pocket watches and formats like Savonnet and Lepine:

  “I'm not saying that everybody... is going to look at this watch and go, damn, I want to go and work in the watch industry. …But it's bridging a gap because there will be people out there that didn't know and want to know more.” (A, 12:23)

[16:37] Target Audience: The Gen Alpha Play

• Scarlet contends the launch is aimed most at Gen Alpha (born ~2010 onward), for whom it could spark a lifelong interest:

  “Gen Alpha are of course going to be the people that carry the future of our industry, but at the same time, no one's really targeting them…” (A, 16:37)

• Rob muses on the intergenerational appeal:

  "...if I were a Royal Oak owner and I had a daughter or a son of Gen Alpha age, I would rush to buy one of these for them because I'd be like, oh, look, you've got the same watch as dad." (B, 21:00)

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4. Release Strategy & Flipper Culture

[09:00] Chaos, Lines, and Violence:

• Both hosts bemoan reports of violence and chaotic lines, with police presence required at some locations, noting this taints the collaboration’s reputation.

[31:00] Should It Have Been an Online Drop?

• Scarlet and Rob debate whether in-person launches are outdated, with Scarlet noting part of the allure (and downside) comes from the streetwear-style hype model, but acknowledging the logistical and safety issues.

[35:05] Who Benefits Most?

• Rob proposes AP benefits more in the long term:

  “AP is the sort of novel partner here. And when people talk about these releases now… Swatch will be taken for granted as a partner… So I would say it benefits AP because it's the first time they've done this.” (B, 35:10)

[36:10] Swatch’s Resurgence:

• Scarlet points out Swatch benefits, too: the collaborations drive people back to Swatch stores, which have otherwise lagged in excitement and relevance.

[41:49] Scalpers & Lost Magic:

• Both hosts are disappointed by open scalp culture:

  “…posting on Instagram. A photo stood outside with a satchel of Cash saying, if you go and secure one, we're waiting for you outside. We're ready to go, go, go. I'm like, wow, what the fuck is what I have to say to that?” (A, 41:49)
  “That sucks.” (B, 42:26)

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5. Product Details: Design, Movement, and Fun

[45:19] Colorways & Easter Eggs:

• Scarlet’s favorite: the yellow, blue, and pink Marilyn Warhol homage.

  “This is a direct reference to Andy Warhol's silkscreen painting, which was called shot sage Blue Marilyn.” (A, 52:23)

• Each model’s rear screws are uniquely colored, with up to 3 million combinations for the Huit Blanc model:

  “…technically, this is the only pocket watch out of the octet… that could be considered as a piece unique… Swatch have said there are 3 million possibilities in which the screws can be assembled on the bezel.” (A, 54:43)

[47:27] New Movement:

• First use of hand-wound Swatch System 51, decorated in pop art motifs, with each model having its own variation.
• “...System 51, for anyone that doesn't know, is incredible movement ... held together by one central screw... makes it almost impossible to service, but very cool from a componentry perspective…” (B, 47:27)
• Barrel drum features a color-changing visual power reserve indicator.

[50:28] “Widgets”, Not Complications:

• Scarlet coins the term “widget” for mini functions or design additions like small seconds:

  "Why don't we call them widgets instead of complications? … Because there isn't a name for that category of thing. People call a tourbillon a complication, but it's not. It's a widget. You're a trailblazer." (B, 49:33–50:05)

[51:16] Hands-On Details:

• Scarlet demonstrates the tactile click and pop of the case and crown, sharing on-mic:

  “It's got a lovely click. I do have to say, just for transparency, I'm currently just testing one out in my hands. It's got a... let me put it near the microphone.” (A, 51:16)

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6. Larger Cultural Conversation

[57:57] Warhol & the Democratization of Luxury:

• Scarlet quotes art critic Jerry Salz, drawing a parallel between Warhol’s inclusivity and the collaboration’s mass-appeal aspirations.

  “…Today we are all Andy's children, especially in the age of Instagram, which has trained everyone to think visually and to look at our regular lives as fodder for aesthetic output.” (A, 58:40)

[58:47] Flex Culture and Concerns:

• AP’s association with “flex” or showmanship culture is highlighted, with Scarlet noting she’d be wary of wearing one in public, given the current hype and potential for theft.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “No one has ever spoken to me so much about a Watch launch.” (A, 01:34)
• On collabs: “Is this like Zara partnering with Chanel? In a roundabout way? Yeah, it is.” (A, 13:27)
• On the queue system: "You can't hate that part of the system because it's going to happen anyway. It happens in the same way that they do it in fashion..." (A, 32:23)
• Coining ‘widgets’: "Why don't we call them widgets instead of complications? ... You're a trailblazer." (B, 49:28–50:05)
• On hype and violence: “I think it could have been far better executed...they should have done this online drop.” (A, 33:08)
• On AP’s brand: “Far more people from a non watchmaking capacity know the Royal Oak than they do the Speedmaster.” (A, 27:46)
• Warhol's spirit: “This is what this collaboration ... was about: not excluding people, but including people.” (A, 24:39)
• “If you can change one person's mind and have them wearing a watch where they weren't before...to me, that indicates some movement for change.” (A, 43:15)
• Meta moment: “You know, I had to leave the the room because my microphone just decided to stop working… now I seem to have lost the ability to stop the recording.” (B, 63:32)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:34 — Scarlet’s first-reaction & retail buzz
• 07:00 — Wristwatch vs. Pop Watch: design philosophies and industry impact
• 14:21 — Who is the audience? Gen Alpha and industry outreach
• 31:00 — In-person launches, queues, violence, and flipper culture
• 35:05 — Who benefits more: AP or Swatch?
• 45:19 — Product deep dive: colorways, design references
• 47:27 — Case, movement, and “widget” discussion
• 54:43 — The 'piece unique' Huit Blanc and 3 million screw combinations
• 57:57 — Pop art, democratization, and watch as social flex
• 63:32 — Post-show meta mishaps and sign-off banter

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Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, irreverent, and passionate, balancing deep industry knowledge with playful, relatable analogies and self-deprecating humor. The hosts banter with ease, occasionally digressing into meta-commentary and wordplay ("widgets", "scrub out"), while consistently staying grounded in the real-world impact and meaning of the Swatch x AP collaboration.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers an energetic, multidimensional exploration of the Swatch x AP Royal Pop collab, weaving together insights for industry insiders and newcomers alike. Whether you’re after product nerdiness, cultural analysis, or just great banter, this conversation delivers—while highlighting how a single watch launch can ripple far beyond its case, into fashion, culture, and the future of watchmaking itself.

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For more episodes and to contact the hosts:
Instagram: @herealtimeshow | Website: therealtime.show

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Memorable sign-off:
"Good luck getting one... Don't stab anyone in the process. We implore you. We do not condone that kind of violence." (B, 61:45)

Scarlet:
"I'm also happy to spit some bars with people that really want to go TTE tat on why they hate it." (A, 62:00)

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome back to the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nudds. I'm joined by our humble rambler, Scarlet Baker, who has been rambling humbly all over the world in pursuit of novelty. Today we're going to talk about something that you'll all have heard of, the Swatch Apart Royal Pop collab. It is probably the biggest news to hit the mainstream of watchmaking since the Omega Swatch collab on the moonswatch. And there is a lot to unpack. So, Scarlet, welcome to the studio.

[A]

Thank you very much. It's good to be back. Scrob is back in full force Scrub Richter. We're scrubbing away today. We've got lots to scrub about.

[B]

We are scrubbing with enthusiasm.

[A]

We are. The sun's out, it's a great day. It's a Friday afternoon. I'm ready to lyrical about this collab.

[B]

Well, there's a lot to say, right? We, we had so many things to say. We decided instead of very clinically structuring this episode and going through those things, blow for blow, we would just let an explosion of hot takes erupt around us. Now, we're going to start with you because you, unlike me, have been hands on with this product. You've seen them in the bioceramic, I guess we should say, and you saw them ahead of launch, so you've had longer to really digest what this piece is, what it could be, what it means, what it doesn't mean for the industry and beyond. So tell us the story of how you first encountered the Royal Pop.

[A]

So the tin lifted, this ominous tin that appeared across the world in. And I will have to say here, I do like the fact that Swatch once again put something in the storefront windows and everyone went along to go and decipher what the heck it was. So seeing the lid off this tin lift for the first time, and to clarify here, the point of seeing the launch just slightly before the embargo lifted, it wasn't confirmed as such yet that it was Audemars Piguet and collaboration. We'd seen the words that morning that I was going to see the Royal Pop appear. So I was sort of thinking, well, you've set yourself up for a massive lawsuit here if you're not going down the route of partnering with ap. So it must be. So seeing that lid lift, honestly, my first reaction was like, oh, my God. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We're now, what, a week and a half? A week on? Yeah, not even a week and a half or a Week on from when the launch came out. And I stand exactly by that same sentiment, that I think this was a phenomenal collaboration for many reasons of which, of course, we'll go into. I loved it. I love how they've presented it. I love the actual product, the colorways, etc. I love the fact that we're seeing a new system, 51 hand wound movement with it. I think there's so much that has clouded this launch and I can say firsthand that I have never felt such an intersection of the world that we both work in, Rob, bleed into every other avenue of my life. No one has ever spoken to me so much about a Watch launch. To the point where I was getting my nails done and my nail technician was saying, have you heard about this Swatch thing that's happening? Like, do you know anything about it? Like, I keep seeing it all over my Instagram. I then went to the off license and overheard people also talking in there, as well as they were buying something, also having a conversation about it. So I think, you know, the noise pre launch was unavoidable, inescapable for everybody. I think there's something hugely powerful about that. But as people that sit within the watch industry, it meant that fatigue grew quite quickly before it even come out, part and parcel, because we've never seen so many AI renderings for a launch before. And I think if we also look at the scope of where we are with AI compared to where we were when the Moon Swatch came out, or Blancpain's collaboration, the level of technology has progressed so much since then that we weren't creating AI renderings like we were back then, which meant that so many people were seeing it, so many people were seeing, you know, false versions of it, which is great because of course we should be allowed to experiment and hypothesize what it should look like. But the noise was incessant. So I think from that perspective, people were already disgruntled from the beginning. Now, obviously, it coming out in the world and seeing the reactions of such and the cues and let's not beat around the bush, the violence that has ensued since. I completely stand with everybody that says this is tainting the vision of, you know, the, the collaborative efforts. And it also paints watchmaking in, in a bad light. I fully, fully agree with that. But that is something that could have been controlled, I agree. Had this been launched as an online job. And perhaps we should discuss that in a little bit more detail later on and focus perhaps right now on what the Actual message is behind this collaboration. So when I lifted this tin and saw them all, you see eight really, really like unexpected watches in front of you. We'd seen the teaser of some kind of lanyard looking image which was showcased obviously through the graphics of some kind of pop art design. So I think, you know, the rumor mill was spinning from the beginning. Is this going to be a wristwatch? I resonate so much with the fact that this was not a wristwatch and had the opportunity to speak with Hilaria, Esther from AP and Mr. Hayek too. And from the beginning it was made clear that from AP's side, it would never, ever, ever be a wristwatch. We've obviously seen since a million dealers and, you know, the Hatton Garden Boys all saying we're now the world's first to create a set of straps to turn this into a wristwatch. And I don't think I've ever seen so many people claim they are the first to do something. Although that does kind of sound similar to the watch industry in general, everyone claiming the first. But I think that just completely weakens the whole point of why it's created. Of course, wear the damn thing however you that is the subject line behind it. But this launch would not have had the success that I think it is having and going to have. And I will also explain why shortly, had it have been a wristwatch. There are a million wristwatches out there. AP also had the perfect case study of seeing two other brands work with Swatch to create watches. What value were they going to add by making another watch that you wear on the wrist? We know AP to be provocative. Whether you love that provocation or not, they were never gonna go down an exceptionally traditional route here, and I endorse that entirely.

[B]

You've gotta say on some level though, that from a commercial perspective, which probably is not the point for a collaboration like this, I would guess in the grander scheme of things, they could have sold more units to a wider demographic had it been a wristwatch.

[A]

I agree. But then I think to your point, this will be criticised as being a commercial launch by AP because they've partner with one of the brands that can mass produce on another level. But it's not a commercial objective here. And I think that's what so many people are overlooking. Like AP don't need to cash in and get an extra, like what, 3 million or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From doing this launch. They don't need that money. They have the money. Like, you know, we've just seen them launch an initiative at Watches and Wonders. I don't know if you saw it, Rob of like the Galle and the Peacock, et cetera. Like they've just launched that initiative, which is watches that you know you and I aren't going to be able to buy and there's only like what, five to eight models a year. And the one thing that I really can't wrap my head around here is how people are saying this is diluting a brand.

[B]

It's very interesting because I think you're absolutely right. Like had it been a wristwatch, it would have looked like a very shallow cash grab. Just like you say, like the actual money involved here for apart is, is minimal. And so rather than releasing something that will shift a huge number of units and had it been a wristwatch, maybe denigrate the brand slightly, they've gone down a completely different route, been provocative, been unexpected, and partnered with Swatch to bring back a platform that I think real Swatch lovers have missed as well. I would find it surprising if at some point there isn't a plan to release an official Swatch AP bracelet for it, because the whole point of the pop was that you could wear this watch in multiple ways and right now you have a proprietary carrier, which is unusual, perhaps quite timely in terms of how the watches is worn. I mean, if you had one, I don't know how you would wear it. But I've seen them on, on handbags as charms and I've seen most guys I've seen wearing them on their belt, like looped around. It's like a cool little accessory. I think it works really, really well as a handbag charm. And I think that that obviously again will reduce the pure numbers of people that may want to buy it. But also it opens up an audience that is completely separate from AP's normal audience. And if the objective is not to sell watches but to start a conversation or to bring a brand to a wider audience, then I think it's is nothing but a massive success in that regard. So quite a clever idea in a way to make a product that was maybe not even called for, but has its own space in which it can flourish. But we've seen, as you mentioned and as we should talk about, the rabid rush to get hands on these pieces and terrible scenes of violence and chaos and disruption, Police being called out to control and dissipate crowds that were just overwhelming. How could this have been done differently bar the online release strategy? How could they have done it with an in store release and avoided this?

[A]

I just I want to pause you there before I answer that question, because I want to give you the answer that it deserves. But you mentioned two things there that need to be picked upon. So you talked about the fact that you're surprised that it came in. In this format of, you know, the lanyard etc, and it didn't come with straps. What's interesting is that all of these accessories are not branded, which isn't typical from what you see when Swatch do a collaboration or Swatch release their own product. You know, it's branded in every capacity. And the point behind that is that the pocket watch format, and I say the word format here, and that's the word that they actually use in their official communication, is because it doesn't have to be that you can do what, whatever you want with this thing. Like, yes, the obvious option is to wear it on your handbag, but what about having it on your rear view mirror? What about having it on your wall, amongst your frames and like wall hangings? There are so many options of what to do with it. So I think. I don't. I don't know why we're so disgruntled by the fact it's not a watch when everybody is also complaining all the time, oh, it's another watch launch. We've got way too many watches being launched. Here's something different. And you also mentioned there as well, Rob, that, you know, it was a collab that didn't necessarily need to happen. I'd argue differently. I would say there's a gap here. I don't think, yeah, AP don't need to do another collab, but collabs are so rich in their DNA and they will continue to do so as they've just done this week, doing a new concept watch with the Ambush team, like, it's who they are. So it's unsurprising in that regard. But, yes, it's surprising who they've partnered up with. I think the intent behind that, that we're perhaps not digging into deeper here, and you saying that there isn't a need for it. I disagree. I think. And. And speaking again to Hilario, she was talking about how our industry needs nourishing. Everybody knows that that's not news. We talk about, you know, staying relevant, not for the sake of keeping up with culture, but for the fact that we want people 50 years from now to still be talking about the industry and. And more importantly, be working in this industry. I'm not saying that everybody that's going into that queue and picking one up or buying one off StockX or whatever is going to look at this watch and go, damn, I want to go and work in the watch industry. Of course not in the same way that I go and buy clothes and think I want to be a designer. Absolutely not. But it's bridging a gap because there will be people out there that didn't know and want to know more. In the same way that I didn't know what a Savonnet watch, pocket watch was or a lepine watch. Pocket watch can't speak too many watch words. I didn't know the difference. I didn't know what these two words were before seeing these watches. And I'm looking at this, this pocket watch thinking, why is the crown at three? I don't get it. And I've learned something from it. Yes, I'm involved in this industry and I live it and I breathe it. So of course I'm more enticed to, to educate myself, to push myself further. But you know, my girlfriends are calling me saying, is this like, you know, the best quote I heard was someone saying, is this like Zara partnering with Chanel in a roundabout way? Yeah, it is.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've, but we've seen like, we've seen in, in fashion especially, we've seen certainly tangential brands partnering with one another to great success. I'll have to listen back to exactly how I phrased the comment you picked up on. I think I said that I don't think there was a commercial need for it. I do agree with you that from a messaging perspective, there again, need. Need is. Was there a need for this project? Maybe not specifically this because it's been executed in such a unexpected way. But yeah, of course there's always a need to like, bridge gaps and, and build new audiences and to educate people that didn't realize there was something to be educated on. Like, you know, this is news to you and news to me, actually, because I knew what a lepine was. You told me what a savinet was like. I just thought that was just a normal thing. Normal pocket watch.

[A]

I have a question to you. Who do you think the audience is for this collaboration?

[B]

That's a very good question because I don't, I don't think that it's necessarily targeted at one group of people. I think that the story is engaging on multiple levels. I think that from our perspective as seasoned watch hacks, and let's remove our genders from this for a second, as industry professionals, this is kind of catnip it's what we always dream of because there's something to talk about. Like it's really, really interesting. Whether you have a positive gut response or a negative gut response to it, it's kind of irrelevant. There's plenty of stuff to unpack and loads of angles to approach this and many of them are right. You said this is what I think is interesting about it. Same with the audience. I'm not sure there's one size fits all opinion or takeaway or response to it. It's not like if you think about it for 100 hours, you will come down on the same opinion as someone else. And that's a beautiful thing because it stimulates conversation. In terms of audience, I'd say from a product perspective, it strikes me as more youthful and more female. And that's partly because of the colors, partly because of the, I'd say the most obvious way to wear it. You are right. Of course, it could be deployed in many different ways. One thing I wish they would do, and I'm not bothered about them releasing it on a strap or on a bracelet or anything, but I think it would be so cool as a desk lock. And I would love to see at some point like a little fold up carrier.

[A]

They have that. That's also one of the releases. There aren't many photographs, I believe that, but they already have an accessory to allow you to put it into a desk clock. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Now that I hadn't seen that finally is kind of the tipping point for me where I would now want to buy one because that's what I would have it as. I thought it could be cool on a dashboard. Like you could make a little carrier that plugged into your air vents on a, on a car so you could have it as your essential console clock or on a desk. So yeah, now I'm interested. Very, very cool. What do you think about the target audience? I mean, what's your takeaway? Do you think there is one or do you think there are many?

[A]

I think there is one target audience here, but I think it's an open invite to everybody beyond that. So no, it's not targeting Royal Oak clients or collectors.

[B]

No.

[A]

And again, we can, we can come on to the conversation after this about people's comments saying it's diluting a brand, it's a cash grab, etc, it's Gen Alpha and nobody's really talking about Gen Alpha. We all talk about Gen Z a lot. And I sit personally on the cusp of Gen Z and Millennial. So whatever that Makes me, I don't know, Gen Alpha, we need to target them more than ever and we talk so much as an industry about needing to tap into the younger generation and then you see these marketing campaigns come out, you see the communication come out and you're still scratching your head, being like you said you wanted to talk to a younger generation. But nothing about this indicates that. Here is a prime example of where we see that done perfectly in terms of the actual product, not necessarily how it's launched. Gen Alpha are of course going to be the people that carry the future of our industry, but at the same time, no one's really targeting them or speaking to them about the truth of mechanical watchmaking, which is why it's super important that they have the capacity for just, I say just 350 pound. Of course, you know, if you have a six year old child, spending 350 pound on a pocket watch for them is, you know, still a big thing. I certainly would have loved that when I was younger, but I would have been asking for it for probably birthdays and Christmases combined. To be able to have a mechanical watch in your hands at such a young age I think is incredible. I sit here and wonder, had I had that experience at a younger age, sure I would have been captivated by the design first because that's how I've been raised and that's the eye that I see through. But I wonder, would I have been more interested to learn more about the world of watchmaking because I didn't hold a hand wound mechanical watch in my hands until the age of 24. And I think the scope to be able to target people way younger than that is what will really set our industry apart. The part that we also need to talk about here, relating back to your commercial comment, Rob, is that on AP's side, all of the proceeds, they're not, you know, taking this as a commercial trip for them. The proceeds from, from the sales are going directly to a fund that they are establishing that is giving back and promoting to the knowledge and the training of watchmakers. For instance, the, the internship program at AP as well starts from the age of 16 or 17. You know, we look at kids beyond Switzerland and Japan, etc, I don't know that they get that level of exposure to see watches and have it so immersed in the culture. We definitely don't here in the United Kingdom, that's for sure. It's not something that's spoken about from an engineering aspect. Like, I don't know if you ever had anybody come into School, Rob, and say to you, like, if you want to go down the route of engineering, try the watch industry or design wise, it's like go into fashion, learn to be a designer and, you know, make clothes instead. I think it's such a tangible way to activate something in young children's brains. So I think Gen Alpha is primarily the target here. Of course not. You know, will these children be in the queues with their parents to go and get it? Perhaps it's too early to say because right now we're still dealing with the bombardment of flippers that are stood there. Even yesterday still in London there were queues. And I'm still believe that Carnaby, the Carnaby store isn't stocking it currently. But that's something we should perhaps discuss from your earlier question.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why it's gone the way it's gone.

[B]

I have, I think two, at least two responses to what you said there hit me. So firstly, it's a genius strategy to take the proceeds from this campaign and to donate them to something so worthwhile for watchmaking. So inspiring because again, that, that actual amount of money I would still argue is negligible for AP in terms of the running of its business. So if they look at this entirely as a marketing exercise, which is what I think it obviously is, or say obviously to me that's what it is, to me that's what the moonswatch was as well. It was about raising awareness and whatnot. But AP had gone that extra mile there to say, okay, well we're going to take this money, which we really don't need. It's not like we're desperate and we're trying to pay off some bills and then just give it to something else, which is doubling down on this exposure and positive feeling and whatever people think about the watch as a product, I think it'd be pretty hard to say that, you know, stimulating interest and education for the next generation is a bad thing. I think that would be pretty difficult to say Gen Alpha as the target audience. That's really interesting to me because I still guess I don't see them as a, as a buying audience because the oldest Gen Alpha is 16. Right. So Gen Alpha starts in 2010. So like you say, they're probably in most cases going to be asking their parents for this watch. I trust you with that insight. It's a lot of money for a 16 year old or younger.

[A]

Yeah, of course it is.

[B]

But yeah, I do hope that you're correct because like from my, in my position working in Marketing with a couple of brands. I've been banging the drum for, like, more watches to appeal to. To kids, to get them into the hobby. Obviously marketed with an eye on the person or people who will be buying the watch for the children. Because we want adult watch fans to bring their progeny into the watch industry. So if I were a Royal Oak owner and I had a daughter or a son of gen alpha age, I would rush to buy one of these for them because I'd be like, oh, look, you've got the same watch as dad. You know, like, oh, you know, we're all part of the same family. I think that that, like, relationship that you said, bridging the gap, bridging that generational gap from, like, an existing owner of a. Of a real watch and then owner of this, which. Okay, saying it's not a real watch is a bit of a slap in the face because it's still a mechanical watch. It's got its own design language. It is a brilliant fusion of two brands and two different styles in a way that the Moonswatch wasn't really. It's. It's more successful and more ambitious. I think, from a design perspective as a product.

[A]

I think one thing we also do so much of, as well as an industry to which I'm guilty of. You'll be guilty of, it's a collective critique. We talk so much about how we want the industry to move forward, to be more progressive, how in terms of the luxury sector, we're very slow. Yes. Part and parcel. Because crafting, you know, beautiful, highly complicated, incredibly finished watches doesn't happen overnight. But as soon as we kind of see some step forward, we're so quick to criticize it. And I think that's what I find the saddest part here. Not so much people saying, oh, well, my Royal Oak is now diluted. According to Chrono24, I think they said that their Royal Oak sales had gone up by 40 or something like that this week. You know, I guess that's just the halo effect of it all. We're seeing two brands take initiative and go, right, we got to move forward. We need to recruit more people into this world. We need to make more people care about it. We need to see more watches. Whether people are winding the bloody things or not, out in public, like having a phone in our hand. We all talk about this so much. Like, why do we need a watch? Why do we need a watch? Someone's actually being a catalyst here and moving that conversation forward and making young people or whatever Age, people think, oh, actually, before I leave the house, I want to put this on my bag. Or in the same way that, you know, it's second nature for you and I, Rob, if we don't have something on our wrist when we go outside it, you feel naked. It feels odd. You know, it's about changing something, a part of everyone's routine, day to day, of making them think, oh, actually, I will add the watch to. To my looks. And at that point, I think something slowly, slowly, slowly is changing the process of making people pick up watches again. And we're talking here about people who are not collectors, are not within the watch industry. We're talking about Joe Bloggs that doesn't really know or care or ever felt any sense of connection to a watch in any capacity. Like, that's the person that this is hitting. It's open doors to, of course, everybody beyond that. And I think there's something really cool about, you know, someone that owns 10 Royal Oaks, that wants to get the whole collection to be like, this is. This is, you know, this is something fun. And that's what we need to be reminded that it is. It is something fun. What is also interesting here is the fact that the Pop Swatch is something that I've definitely spoken about with you before. I've met collectors who think the concept of it is brilliant. You know, it's the same thing here. And if we have to remember with Swatch, first and foremost is that. And I remember Mr. Hayek saying this in conversation. You know, they've referenced pop art here for a reason. Yes, obviously to the original format of the Pop Swatch, but the conversation of what Andy Warhol used to do with the Campbell soup tin and, you know, Coca Cola in his artworks. A president can drink Coca Cola and, you know, as Mr. Hayek said, so can a worker. It's the same Coca Cola. And I think what this collaboration about it, in its thesis was about was not excluding people, but including people. Now, as a result of that, and as a result of the two brands that have partnered here, and let's look more specifically at AP being the name, we've gone down a route of exclusion, which is sad. That is obviously not the intentions of the collaboration. And you can argue that Swatch chose to do XYZ to get the marketing noise as much as possible. But do they want to instigate violence? No. Do they want people to be able to have these watches in their hands, on their bags, wherever, and as many people as possible? Yes, of course they do. Do I think they should have managed it better and done an online job. Yes. Why? Because ap, whether you've loved AP from the beginning or you loved it because you saw it on a celebrity's watch, it is undoubtedly one of the most hype watch brands out there. It is one of the top brands that has somehow managed to manifest itself within, to the mainstream, within culture in a way that so many other watch brands haven't been able to do. Whether that's a positive thing or a negative thing, that's also a discussion. But you have, you know, and we've chosen one of. I say we. They have chosen one of the most longed for models as well by the masses, the Royal Oak. So instantly this collab was going to have far more noise because I would say nine times out of 10, and maybe this is going to annoy a lot of people. What I'm about to say, far more people from a non watchmaking capacity know the Royal Oak than they do the Speedmaster.

[B]

Do you think that's true?

[A]

Yeah, I do. Okay.

[B]

Interesting. I. I thought like, you know, when Blancpain did the 50 fathoms with, with Swatch, I thought that was a bit of a reach because I don't think many people on the street would know about Blancpain or the 50 Fathoms. The Royal Oak, I would definitely think is more in the mainstream because of its popularity with, you know, music stars, rappers, particularly some athletes as well. I can get that. But more than the Speedmaster, that's interesting because I guess I feel like Speedmasters are so present on the high street. You know, there's so many Omega boutiques and dealers and the Speedmaster is always like, positioned as an icon with the very memorable iconography of the Moon. But I don't know. I mean, your finger is on the pulse more than mine in this regard. Certainly in the uk because not. I mean, I'm barely there these days. Interesting take. Yeah.

[A]

I think if we're also, and I keep addressing here that I'm talking about people that don't know anything about the world of watches in any capacity, and I perhaps use my own friendship group here as a case study for that. Some of them might be able to say that if I said which watch went to the moon, maybe someone might be able to say Omega.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I ask them more than that. I think a lot of, A lot of people know Omega from like inheriting perhaps a granddad's or a grandma's watch, but they might not know the model name. And I don't think that most of them would know that the Speedmaster is the watch that they're able to get on their wrists through the MoonsWatch collaboration. Whereas with AP Royal O. Yeah. It has far more kind of societal zeitgeist reach, I think, in terms of the model, it actually is.

[B]

Well, that's. I think, because AP is maybe close to being a mono model brand these days. You know, very few people talk about the code 1159 or the millenary. It's always Audemars, Piguet, Royal Oak. And even if you put the offshore suffix on there as well, maybe it's all part of that Royal Oak family. Yeah. Omega is a brand, certainly, I think, more visible, like it's the Bond watch. Has been for 31 years, I guess, since GoldenEye. But I see what you mean about the model. The model is interesting because perhaps, like, if you know ap, you know the Royal Oak, if you know Omega, you don't necessarily know Constellation or a Speedmaster or a Seamaster. I see your point. Okay, I wanted to just revert to the release strategy discussion because you mentioned online. Did you mean you think it should be available for purchase online?

[A]

Yeah. So if we're also talking about the fact here that AP is coveted and wanted amongst the mainstream and if we zone in slightly here about the fact that it is a hype watch brand. Yeah, I'm not using hype in a critical way here. I'm using in a way of. Of, you know, we think of the outlets that kind of love it and covet it, you know, your hype beasts, your high snobieties, your GQs. It is speaking to a demographic of people that are well versed in fashion, in music, in film. They know the celebrities that are wearing the things, etc, etc. Within this realm of luxury that targets that audience, one of the most successful ways to communicate is via online drops. It's the street, you know, it's the street weather, street culture strategy that we've seen work so many, so many times. Yeah, I think it would have worked perfectly, given the name you have involved in this collaboration to do that. Obviously, no one expected it to go as, excuse my French, as tits up, as it did in the queues.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not sure that's true, but I'll get to that in a moment.

[A]

We know there were gonna be qs. Of course we did. And I'm sure you know, from our watch industry perspective and thinking, oh, wait for it to die down before I get one, because these cues will be intense. Yeah, we saw that. There was violence last time with Omega, of course. Yeah, we saw that people queued. But that did also become part of the thrill in the story that people were camping and people were excited.

[B]

People.

[A]

You know, we also forget the fact that in some of these cues people were making friends. Like, I did the cue for Blancpain on Oxford Street. I covered it for gq and I went late in the evening and then I arrived first thing in the morning at like 6am to go and interview people. And it was fascinating. Like, so many people had made friends, don't get me wrong. Like, the first couple of hundred meters of that queue where people sat in their supreme deck chairs just waiting to go and get the watch. And I remember distinctly at 9am, as soon as they copped their watches, there was a massive van waiting outside the front with the head honcho. There was all of his men coming out the shop one by one, each with a bag. They all rounded up, went into the van and off they went to go. Shove it all on ebay. That's part of the system. You can't hate that part of the system because it's going to happen anyway. It happens in the same way that they do it in fashion, same way with, like, H and M doing their collaborations with Karl Lagerfeld, Stella McCartney, Versace, whoever. Like, even now I still have pieces that I want from those collections that are still on ebay for, like, like, five times the retail price. That is just the way the cookie crumbles.

[B]

There's a lot of things going on here that I find interesting. I think that it was quite predictable that this would happen again, maybe to an even more extreme level than the moonswatch, given the audience for AP proper. So I'm not so sure I can really just give Swatching AP a pass on that one to go to. Oh, we couldn't have seen this comment. Like, I think you probably could.

[A]

I'm not giving them a pass either on that and I think it could have been far better executed. And I think they should have done this online drop and somehow worked out this system.

[B]

Yeah. But my point is, and this is a bit like, you know, not conspiracy theory esque, I hope, but, like, I wouldn't be surprised if there was part of them that sort of like, you know, they knew it was going to happen again. Like, that's actually not a terrible thing for us because it is shocking news, it's headline news. It gets this release on BBC. Yeah, it gets it on, you know, the Times. It gets it on, you know, even the New Yorker or something will write about it. Point Wall Street Journal will do something

[A]

like Wall Street Journal did one. Yeah.

[B]

Or so there you go. So like this is, this is something unavoidable. It's a cultural moment. And you know, I'm not saying that they're sitting in, you know, around a massive boardroom in Swiss skyscraper, all wearing black hoods and going hahaha. The masses will destroy themselves for our game. But they must have known, there must have been like that Machiavellian sort of will for that to happen. Because there are advantages to this. Not only does it get the watch in the news, it creates this storm of like confusion and interest around it. So much so my 75 old father, not a watch guy, messaged me, said I've just heard about this, this collaboration with Swatch. He's never heard of all about Piguet, but he knew Swatch and he was like, what's going on? Is it such a great watch that I need to buy it? Like everyone's like fighting for it. And I was like, look dad, I'll call you sometime and we can talk about it. Because it's not really a text response.

[A]

Tell him to listen to this pod.

[B]

I'll send him the link to the pod.

[A]

Yeah, but what it does shout out Mr. Nods.

[B]

Dr. Nuts. Don't make that mistake. Sorry would be furious. Alright dad, there are several things going on at the same time. I have a release strategy suggestion for you which I'll pause, I'll park that for a minute while we address the advantages Swatch and Audemars Piguet for launching it in this manner. With such an extremely limited number of pieces available on site. That is insane. They must have known that there would be more people there than not and therefore that must be deliberate, that choice.

[A]

If this was a deliberate choice, who do you think benefits more?

[B]

I think the brands benefit massively for a couple of reasons.

[A]

Yeah, but which brand, which brand benefits more from this?

[B]

Probably ap, because I think that Swatch has executed this strategy before. So AP is the sort of novel partner here. And when people talk about these releases now when we look back on the Omega collab, the Blancpain collab, the Audemars Piguet collab, Swatch will be taken for granted as a partner in those collabs because it follows the same model. They're taking icons from these existing brands and they're doing them in a Swatchy way. And so I think we would just, just comfortably refer to those by the partner brand rather than including Swatch. In that conversation. So I would say it benefits AP because it's the first time they've done this.

[A]

I'm gonna pause you on that one and say, I beg to differ at the same time. And maybe this is Swatch seeking an ample opportunity to gain further leverage from someone like ap, because separate to a Blancpain, separate to Omega. When was the last time you walked into a Swatch store and bought a brand new Swatch?

[B]

And bought a brand new Swatch? Oh, good Lord. Yeah. Prior to the Moonswatch release, no one talks about modern Swatch because it's not very good.

[A]

And, you know, we all talk about vintage Swatch. Me, myself, this year for my birthday, I bought myself the Feather Pop Swatch.

[B]

Yeah, that's awesome. But Swatch, Modern Swatch has gone off the boil and the prices have gone through the roof. When I worked for the Swatch store in Manchester in 2009. I'm serious. People still say that anymore. I don't know. Seventeen years ago, when I was a Swatchy employee working in the store in Market Street, I once again cost 32 pounds. And yes, we've had inflation, but now that watch has doubled that price and it hasn't changed. And to be honest, like, the creativity within the company seems to be lacking somewhat. And the most exciting things they've done are these collabs. I'll give you that. That. That certainly is drawing attention to Swatch, I'll give you that. Fine, fine, fine. But I think both points are kind of valid. It's interesting, but this is a good collaboration because it's well balanced. But here's the other advantage, right? Swatch and AP put out a statement after the violence, which I thought was absolutely genius because of its ambiguity. It said, oh, we really regret, like, blah, blah, blah, that this happened. Please be patient. The Swatch order, my PK collab, will be available for several months yet. So no fixed time frame, but a subtle indication that there is a point at which it will be discontinued. If you can keep that demand high for that period, you win.

[A]

Well, if you'd have read my article, Rob, you would have known before they made that announcement that in actual fact. So this is obviously one of the main questions that we put forward to Hilario and Mr. Hayek. You know, what's the lifespan on this? To which they said, we have had no conversation about seizing production.

[B]

Bullshit. Yeah.

[A]

You know, come on, let me lose the rest of it. The rest of it. Because I threw the question to Mr. Hayek saying, okay, in eight months time, if I don't want to, you know, stand in line right now. And I've got all my family members being like, this seems like something I should have. It looks cool. And my own sister knows of ap. She knows that she's, God love her and me too, never going to be able to afford her in her lifetime. So she was like, I want in on this. They were texting me, being like, can you go in the queue? We need to get one while we can. And I was saying to them, give it like a couple of months, like you'll still be fine. So I said to Mr. Hayek, in eight months time, are we still gonna be okay? And he said along the lines of very much, you'll still be fine in eight months time. But then he said 88 months time, probably a different story. So, yes, I agree with you. It's vague as bleep. And you know, that's a great incentive to keep people running, thinking quick, I need to get it now while I can, but I do.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But how long did the Moonswatch stay in stores for?

[B]

Moonswatch is still available. We still buy it.

[A]

But like the very first ones that came out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, all still there. All of them still there, yeah. It just became part of the regular collection for now. But I mean, we're still only talking a few years, right? It was just clever the way they did it.

[A]

The one thing that they're not doing though is doing any further collaboration.

[B]

Okay, well, we'll believe that until something else happens.

[A]

Yeah, but they never said that with Omega or Blank Plan. The one thing that they've been so explicit about here, if they haven't been on the day, they have at least said, this is a one off collaboration. Obviously we don't know if another CEO in 10 years time or 20 years time or whatever wants to go for round two.

[B]

Perfect for the communication strategy though, because what they care about is right now and what they care about is staying in people's minds. They do not care about selling a lot of these watches because if they did, if they saw it as a product, like as a commercial product, they could have released it online like you said, and let everybody have it. Everybody buy it immediately. They'd sell as many as were wanted and then they wouldn't sell any more. Now they can manage the supply really effectively by limiting the amount available in certain selected boutiques to stretch out the tail of this campaign for as long as they feel is necessary. And that is, I think, the goal. If they never allow supply to meet demand, which they Won't do. They will succeed. Now, personally, I think there is a balance to be struck here in the strategy. I would have done an online lottery so that people were selected ahead of time, just in a completely randomized way, so that they knew that if they go to this store at this time, then they will get the watch that they want.

[A]

But then that's the opposite intent of the collaboration at the same time. Because, yes, right now it feels exclusive because there's queues to get into these stores, et cetera. But if you do some kind of lottery system, you know, we look at Mad editions and what they do with their lotteries here, and, you know, more and more can people complain each time that they can't get the watch? Is that not then ultimately putting up a massive barrier to entry, which undermines the whole intent of the collaboration in the first place?

[B]

I don't think it puts up any more barrier to entry than having like 10 pieces available with a crowd of a thousand people outside. I think it's from a, from a safety perspective, it's much more responsible. But I'm not, I'm not saying I think that they made a mistake by doing this, by creating this Ferrari, because I think that they benefit from it and I think they're all smart enough to know exactly, exactly that. Like, I, I mean, I'm a believer in the dark arts, right? So I think that this is. There's a little bit of like subtle manipulation going on there because they don't want to sell the product as much as they can because they'd release it online. They don't want to reduce the storm of interest or the, the visuals of having thousands of people trying to get into this what store, because if they did, then they could do an online lottery and make sure that everything was clearly managed and there were enough products for people to purchase when they turned up having made long journeys, in some cases speculatively, to buy and buy one of these watches, I think they did it deliberately and I think they know what they're doing and I'm okay with it because I think that that's their job, is to get that message out there and they succeeded.

[A]

I think the one part I am genuinely really, really saddened by, separate to the violence, is the amount of Instagram posts I saw. And this was specific to London, so I can't speak on other UK cities or globally here. The amount of watch dealers coming from Hatton Garden, I will name job them there posting on Instagram. A photo stood outside with a satchel of Cash saying, if you go and secure one, we're waiting for you outside. We're ready to go, go, go. I'm like, wow, what the fuck is what I have to say to that?

[B]

Yeah, that sucks.

[A]

And I don't think we ever saw it amplified to that degree for previous Swatch collaborations, where obviously people are standing outside heckling and scalping, but broadcasting it so publicly to that level. Yes, we've already mentioned that. It's an unavoidable part of these kind of launches, whether you're doing an H and M designer collab or you're doing this. But that for me was too far as well. Yeah, I think that took the magic out of it entirely. And I understand that some of these people. I understand, but I don't agree. You know, a lot of these guys are young kids who want money quickly. Yeah, we all want money quickly.

[B]

Well, it's hard to say no to, isn't it? If, you know, if you stand in that queue, you get one, you make a grand, like, click your fingers. It's easy money.

[A]

But, like, if I. If I would own one, I'd have no desire to flip it. But maybe I'm too naive. Maybe I'm far too in love with this narrative that somehow this great collaboration is gonna promote the dream of watchmaking to younger audiences. It's way too soon to kind of tell on any of this, but I think if you can change one person's mind and have them wearing a watch where they weren't before, to me, that's. I'm not saying that makes the whole collaboration successful, but that indicates that there's some movement for change. And I think we're just still far too static as an industry. So I. I see that as some good coming out of it. It's incredible how one collaboration has the capacity to gets everybody so much in a tears talking about it and, you know, that's something great. At the same time, we always talk about how Watch as a conversation starters, and I've never heard a conversation so loud as this one. One thing that we haven't touched on, Rob, is that this is a collaboration that has actually been staring us in the face for a very long time. And none of us put two and two together because obviously, if we look at the finer details here, Swatch and AP have partnered with previously and still continue to do so. Obviously here, I'm referring to the Niva Cron. Niva Cron. Neva Cron.

[B]

Nivicron. I would say so many ways, however you like it.

[A]

The HairSpring in the System 51 movement is obviously done in. Don't know the specific, whether it's in collaboration or developed with Audmar Piguet. I said that. So British, then Audmore P. Gay Audemars. So I was kind of annoyed at myself in a way when I first found out, for not being like, obviously it was there the whole time. There's always been a link. But in terms of the actual product as well, if we perhaps dig into that a little bit more, we've got a sequence of colourways that all somehow relate to the world of pop art. The most obvious one being the Savinet model with the yellow bezel and the blue dial and the pink petite seconds.

[B]

Is that dial blue? It looks like a minty green to me.

[A]

It's like a turquoisey.

[B]

Oh, lovely shade.

[A]

Yeah. With black screws along the bezel. Obviously noting the obvious here that we have eight watches because of the eight sides to the bezel.

[B]

But tell me this, why are two savinets and why are six lepines? Like, what's the thinking behind that? Any explanation?

[A]

Unsure too much as to why they've chosen the ratio of six and two for each. Obviously the small second ones on the Savinet style are slightly more expensive. I think it's by, like, 50 pound more expensive or something like that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm sure. I think. I don't know. Variation, maybe. Because. Well, actually, with the Savinet style to wear is a little bit more awkward to wear. You have to make sure you wear it on the right side. Like, for instance, if you were going to wear it on your jeans, it has to be a specific way in order for you to lift it up and naturally with the eye line. See the tie?

[B]

Right. So you'd wear it on your right side.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wouldn't you?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Because if you wore it on your left, it would feel.

[B]

Well, it would be upside down, wouldn't it, if you picked it up? Yeah. Because the crown would be pointing. Yeah.

[A]

Am I being really thick here?

[B]

No, I think you're right. Yeah, you're right.

[A]

Yeah. I think it doesn't sit as naturally.

[B]

Well, yeah. Because if it's laying flat against your leg.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then, like, you know. Yeah. If you lift it up with your right hand and you can read it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So obviously there's a bit more versatility with the lepine style.

[B]

Yeah. First watch I ever fixed was a lepine pocket watch, an Omega 1971 Lepine pocket watch that I bought.

[A]

Funny that it was Omega.

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah, I was an Omega apprentice, you know, so it made sense I could get my hands on some parts.

[A]

But yeah, the actual. The actual product too pops out very nicely, as you'd expect for a pop watch. What's great as well is that you do have the crystal, which is great to see. But also let's. Let's give a moment to the movement too. So it does have 15 active patents with this system, System 51 movement, which I won't go into. I'll let the press release and the Internet do that bit for you.

[B]

But this is the first hand wound system 51. Right. Because we've had the automatic before and the system 51, for anyone that doesn't know, is incredible movement that Swatch was able to produce years ago, held together by one central screw. Or shall we say rivet? I think it is really. Which makes it almost impossible to service, but very cool from a componentry perspective because there's so few bits in it and it looks great. I love the decoration on this one. Quite in contrast to the decoration on the 50Fathoms version, which put me off all of those watches except for the black one, which was kind of cool because it was a bit more muted. But right here, this pop art, it works superbly, I think.

[A]

Yeah. I think what's really cool as well with the movement. So each one has a different pop art decoration as well, from model to model. What you do have as well is on the barrel drum, you have a power reserve that's created so when the watch is fully wound, the chambers appear sort of gold colour.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And then obviously when it's not, it appears as great. So I think that's a nice touch as well for people to see that live in the flesh. What's great as well is you do kind of have this mock tapisserie petit tapisserie dial as well. I think also including the small seconds, even though it's only on two models, is great too. In showing the scope of. Again, we're talking to people that don't know watches that you can have more. Ooh. Here's a way to explain it. I know how you add widgets to your home screen.

[B]

Beg your pardon? Oh, those. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like a widget on the watch. We're seeing it in like layman's terms. It is. It's like an extra widget that you add, you know.

[B]

Oh, whose widget we're talking about here now?

[A]

We're talking about the sub seconds don't make widgets Weird. Yeah.

[B]

I'm talking about when I was a boy. A widget was not something you put on your desktop.

[A]

What's your widget?

[B]

I am not gonna reveal that on air, but I think you can imagine. Are we talking about. Have you basically just renamed complications as widgets?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. I like that. Okay. You know, even better because the small seconds isn't a complication.

[A]

You said that so begrudgingly. So begrudging.

[B]

I know. I'm annoyed at the fact I like it, but this is great actually. Scarlet, think about this. Things like a small seconds and a tourbillon, they're not complications, right? They're just like even like a deadbeat. Seconds is barely a complication. It doesn't add a function to the watch. Why don't we call them widgets instead of complications? Because there isn't a name for them. There isn't a name for that category of thing. People call a tourbillon a complication, but it's not. It's a widget. You're a trailblazer. You're a trailblazer.

[A]

Thank you. I'm glad we have it recorded. So there's some testament to this, but no, I think it's like a really good way to actually explain it to people. Let's say a 15 year old kid's looking at the Savinet model and then looking at the Lepine model and them asking, what's that little circle at the bottom? That's like a clock within a clock. You know, obviously when it's fully wound, you soon realize that it is small seconds and it's wiring along the dial a lot quicker than the other two hands. But yeah, it's a widget. I've never ever thought of this before until now.

[B]

You're so proud of yourself. Rightly so. To ruffle.

[A]

I'm just really enjoying the actual phonetics of the word wid. It's.

[B]

It's a great word and it has several applications and suddenly a new one that no one saw coming. My favorite application for it is the widget in a can of Guinness. You know, the little bladder that pumps air into Guinness so that you get the full cream flow. It's called a widget.

[A]

I didn't know that either.

[B]

There you go. We're always education, just learning, learning, learning non stop. I believe there was a cartoon at one point when the alien. There's an alien called widget as well. So there's all sorts of things. But now watchmaking has its own widget.

[A]

It. It's got a lovely Click. I do have to say, just for transparency, I'm currently just testing one out in my hands. It's got a. I don't know if you can hear this. Let me put it near the microphone.

[B]

I. I heard it. Yeah. Is that it popping into the carrier?

[A]

That's the crown clicking in.

[B]

Yeah, that's the crown clicking it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

And then let me get you the drop. Great.

[B]

You gotta give that one back. So don't break it.

[A]

Then let's do a popping into the case.

[B]

Oh, fascinating.

[A]

There we go, boys. We're in. We're in.

[B]

That's what she said. Oh, no.

[A]

Why did I say that?

[B]

Awful. Can't take that.

[A]

When did Mommy were gonna segue. God's sake.

[B]

Yeah, sorry. Okay, let's get off that pretty quick.

[A]

Yeah, move on. Stop it.

[B]

Okay. That's what she said.

[A]

I'm going on mute.

[B]

Which is your favorite colorway? That's what I want to know. Because I think there's a lot to choose from. I can't really choose. I think I love many of them.

[A]

I'm a devout maximalist by default. So anything that's loud speaks to me. So I will definitely say the one we've just been talking about, the yellow bezel with the blue dial and the pink case face. So this is a direct reference to Andy Warhol's silkscreen painting, which was called shot sage Blue Marilyn. So where you see the blue background, the yellow hair, the blue eyeshadow and the pinkiness of her skin, which I think is a really, really nice homage that they've paid there. Second to that, I absolutely love the two tone blue one. I tried it on against my denim jeans and it just looked phenomenal. I fight this.

[B]

The land back.

[A]

Exactly. That one. I also think. Yeah, let's talk about the. The actual naming as well. Rob.

[B]

I don't like it.

[A]

Don't you? So across. For anybody that doesn't know across the eight models, you have the color and the word eight written in different languages. So you've got French, you've got German, you've got green eight. Love that one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Eight green or whatever it is. Lovely. English. Then you've got. Is it romance?

[B]

Yes. Romancia.

[A]

Romancia.

[B]

So I'm looking. I'm looking through here. I think we've got Italian, French, English, German. I don't know what ba is. Lambat, maybe? That's Mandarin.

[A]

It's Mandarin.

[B]

Okay. And then we've got Ocho Negro, which I guess is Spanish.

[A]

See?

[B]

And orangey Hachi, which looks Japanese. To me. Me. I don't know. I'm guessing. Am I close?

[A]

I'm gonna say yeah.

[B]

Okay, well, let me tell you why I don't like it, okay? Because the concept is good. The execution is awkward. Like, I get anxiety whenever I have to pronounce anything in French. And now you're asking me to pronounce eight languages, only one and a half of which I speak comfortably. It's tough.

[A]

So also one to pay particular attention to is the Rite Blanc model, which is the white case, white dial with multicolored indexes throughout. So one thing that's really cool about this one, that kind of feels like a bit of an Easter egg that no one's really talking about too much, is that technically, this is the only pocket watch out of the octet. I don't know why I put so much emphasis on the word octet, then.

[B]

I love it. It's such a rare word to use. It's brilliant.

[A]

That could be considered as a piece unique. Why? Because it has multicolored screws along the bezel. But Swatch have said there are 3 million possibilities in which the screws can be assembled on the bezel. So from each Huit Blanc model to model, the order is not the same. So 3 million opportunities is kind of crazy. But, yeah, technically, that means your watch is unique to someone else's if you own this one.

[B]

Just to drill into this a little bit. So there's eight bolt heads on the bezel. There's eight on the back of it as well. So there's 16 opportunities for these bolt heads to be arranged in different patterns. Right. So different formations. Swatch aren't saying, to be clear, that there are 3 million unique pieces. They're saying there's 3 million potential combinations or thereabouts of these 16, and they're assembled at random. So there is a. There is a. A small chance that you would find somebody else in the world had the same configuration of the colors as you bought. It's so unlikely that, yeah, these are almost piece uniques within this octet of watches. And that is super cool. I didn't know that. I like it a lot, and I think that's one of the most charming models, maybe the most joyful of the bunch. But I do think that you're the one you chose. The Marilyn inspired one is probably the most iconic, if we can say such a thing about this release. But, yeah, yeah, I would probably go in one of those two directions. What about you? Would you go for Marilyn as well, or would you go for One of

[A]

the others, I'd go for Marilyn for sure. What's ironic here is that I am not really a Warhol fan at all. I really like the Piaget Warhol, but Andy Warhol's work and the Pop off movement doesn't personally speak to me from like Roy Lichtenstein, et cetera.

[B]

Well, the case back is extremely. Liechtenstein is.

[A]

I know I've always kind of avoided it. And yet, ironically, my favorite one is the literal Warhol homage, which is kind of interesting there. But yeah, I think the movements are epic in terms of their decoration. I think also to show as well that a movement can be decorated to people that don't know. Obviously it's not the type of decoration that we're used to seeing, Rob.

[B]

No, but it's so perfect for it. This is what I do love this about this product because. Because it's the perfect canvas for this kind of action. And it's so pop artish as a concept, like the democratization of luxury again, like Warhol's 15 minutes of fame.

[A]

Well, imagine if they'd put a case back on it.

[B]

Well, I could imagine. Yeah, I mean, I could imagine. But I think this is the best of both worlds. And the power reserve indicator is super cool.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

You know, Warhol is like my third favorite artist, I think, behind Basquiat and Dali. They all died in successive years at the end of the 80s. 87, 88 and 89. Depressing is that.

[A]

That's a bleak time.

[B]

It was a bleak time. I gotta say, though, I always loved Warhol. Not so much for the work itself, but more the messaging behind it. Like an artist. That was incredible. And Yeah, I read 54 was so much a moment of its time.

[A]

I read a really interesting quote the other day from an American critic of the art world called Jerry Salz, who's probably quite well known, but I'm only recently discovering his work. He writes, when last month, Banksy Jerry rigged a frame to shred a painting just when it was auctioned. I could almost hear the whispers. Is that art? This fall, the biggest museum event in New York is the Whitney's retrospective of Andy Warhol, the paradigmatic self made, make anything art and yourself famous artist. Today we are all Andy's children, especially in the age of Instagram, which has trained everyone to think visually and to look at our regular lives as fodder for aesthetic output.

[B]

Wow, great words. And certainly someone I'd like to read more of myself, that's quite profound.

[A]

I mean, it relates here to this collaboration too. There's, you know, part of it is people wanting to show that they own it and they have it. And the showmanship of a name like ap, which we also haven't really spoken about too much as well, you know, it is a brand that is very much linked to this idea of flexing culture. And, you know, in a smaller scale way, it has become a product that even for 350 pound, it's the hot shit that, that people want to, to have on their bag to say that they own it. I mean, to own it. Right now I don't know if I would feel too happy walking around on the streets of London knowing that there are people still queuing for it.

[B]

Good question though because like, you wouldn't expect Shirley to get stabbed or robbed for something that, yes, sells for multiple times its retail value, but actually not that much, would people, really? Are you scared that someone would jump you for £1,000? Basically, maybe they would. Now I've said it out loud.

[A]

Yeah. Please don't jinx me. Touch wood. That'll be fine. I think if we think about these people in the queues right now that want to make money quick and a lot of them are young kids who want the money. And there's a thousand pound right there looking at you.

[B]

Right? Yeah. And it's easier to nick as well if it's on your bag or on your belt. On your wrist. Yeah. You could just yank off the lanyard and probably sell. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Take it back. Yeah. I guess now is not the best time to be wearing one of these in public.

[A]

Yeah. Which is sad. And probably, you know, no one probably ever thought they would be saying that about Swatch.

[B]

Yeah. It's odd, isn't it? But you know, I wouldn't because like I said, I would want it as a desk clock. But tell me this, I'm on the website. I'm looking for the desk lock carrier. Is it available?

[A]

Is it not on the website? Have they not displayed it?

[B]

Can't see it anywhere. I might be being an idiot, but I don't know, maybe that's an exclusive for the Real Time show. It's coming.

[A]

I know that the rolling out of accessories. I believe there's going to be different sized lanyards. I think that's something that's coming. So the one that I've kind of been experimenting with is a shorter one. You can't wear it around your neck.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it would be too small. But yeah, we were showcased the pocket watch in a desk clock format as one of Their accessories and they were paired in the colors of the watches. So I assume that's maybe to come. I don't, don't have the final answer for you on that one there.

[B]

Okay, well, fingers crossed it is on the horizon because that changes the game for me and makes me a potential. In fact, I'd say a likely buyer because that's something that I would really enjoy having it on my desk. I don't have a desk for clock and that is. Yeah, for me as a 40 year old man who seldom leaves the house with a handbag, that would be preferable. Seldom, not never.

[A]

Also great word seldom. Seldom is seldom used.

[B]

Yeah, far too seldom. So that's it. Let's watch Audemars Piguet Royal Pop. Good luck getting one. If you are keen to have one in your collection, don't stab anyone in the process. We implore you. We do not condone that kind of violence.

[A]

I'm also happy to spit some bars with people that really want to go TTE tat on why they hate it.

[B]

Did you just say spits and bars and tete a tete in the same sentence?

[A]

Yeah, I don't know if that's been done before.

[B]

No, never. That's the first. Wonderful.

[A]

But no, seriously, like I'm passionate about this collaboration separate and I mean this honestly to seeing it. Had I been queuing to see it myself, I think I would have absolutely loved it. Seeing it in the first. For the first time in the stores. So I want to address that. There isn't any bias there in that regard.

[B]

Yeah. You know where to find us if you want to get in touch. And you can find Scarlet on Instagram. Carlintheshire. That's S C A R L I N T H E S H I R E We're on Instagram herealtime Show and you can get in touch via the contact form on the official website www.therealtime.show. we'll be back soon with more conversations about novelties in the watch industry and interviews with the industry's finest. Until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.

[A]

Bye. Scrub out, Scrub out.

[B]

Okay, how do we stop this recording?

[A]

Let's just keep this in. What happens after the recording stops?

[B]

You know, I had to leave the the room because my microphone just decided to stop working. You did I leave.

[A]

Get out.

[B]

I left the room and now I seem to have lost the ability to stop the recording.

[A]

Oh, well, the Real Time show fans, we are just gonna have to keep entertaining you until Rob knows how to do technology.

[B]

Rob does not know how to do technology. Can you stop it on your side? Is there any? Did you become host when I left?

[A]

Let's have a look.

[B]

I know. Okay. I figured it out. There's two of me.

[A]

No, there's two robs. I do it like this.

[B]

There's two robs.