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- [00:00]
Alon Ben Joseph
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Rob Nuts
Hello watch fans and welcome to another Q and A session of the Real Time show with me, your friendly neighborhood watchmaker, Rob Nuts, our friendly neighborhood jeweler, Alon Ben Joseph, and a mailbag that is full of questions from one of our favorite listeners. That's right. In the last week we received not one, not two, but 12 questions from our very own Lorion Skitoffer Hamm, who works for Fears Watch Company and is a very ardent listener of TRTS and a great supporter of the show, someone who has always been there for us and supported our watchmaking journey as we hope to support hers. We have got all these wonderful questions in front of us, so we decided rather than spreading them around the show as we often do, we're going to attack them all at once in what may turn out to be a bunch of bumper episode of the Real Time Show. But it's been so long since we've dived into the mailbag. As you might be able to tell from my voice, I'm very excited to actually attack these questions. Alon, how are you feeling about the task ahead of us?
- [01:06]
Alon Ben Joseph
Laurians, you're a rock star. As a South African, how can you not be? I'm very excited. Very good questions. So let's get rolling.
- [01:16]
Rob Nuts
All right, so we are going to have to keep ourselves on a bit of a tight clock here if we're going to get through all 12. Normally we record for an hour, as you know, so that would give us five minutes per question. I, I guarantee we're going to eclipse 60 minutes. But let's, let's start off at the top. I hope you have an answer for this, Alon. I have thought about it a little bit and I think I have one locked and loaded question. What's the one trend in watch design you wish would disappear and one you hope makes a comeback?
- [01:44]
Alon Ben Joseph
Excellent question. Trend that I wish. Well, it kind of disappeared, didn't it? Huge wrist size clocks for your wrist. So 55 and more millimeters case diameters. I'm talking about not lug to lug. Yeah, but that trend is actually fading. So that's happening. I'm not that judgmental. There's not much I want to disappear. I'm actually saluting. The more the merrier. So focusing on the second part of the question. What I would like to make a comeback is, you know, what's still on my mind. Bernay. I want pendant watches to come back actually.
- [02:27]
Rob Nuts
Cool. Very cool.
- [02:28]
Alon Ben Joseph
So I'm still. This is months after we recorded the time to watch his marathon with Us being media partner at Villa and, and, and that episode is still stuck in my mind. So I guess I have to pick that. I'm very curious what you picked, Rob, for these two.
- [02:49]
Rob Nuts
So the trend that I wish would disappear is kind of half smartwatches. So I don't know if we have a term for them. They're not dumb watches, they're somewhere in between. They're the ones that kind of mix some smart functionality with some elements of analog time telling or mechanical watches even. And the reason why is because I just don't think that this one stop shop satisfies either desire sufficiently. So I've been ever more impressed by what Apple have done with the Apple Watch Ultra. I think that it's a super tool. I love the water resistance, I love the titanium housing, I love the way it looks, I love the straps. I think they've made really clever innovations and it just does everything. And for a lesser price we've got pretty comprehensive watches from Casio. There's loads of cool stuff from like Garmin and Samsung. Although they're not my style, I don't like the look of them, but I just think that these, these watches that try and use like Bluetooth functionality, what's the point? You know, I, I, I'm, I'm not gonna, I don't look at that as like the best of both worlds. I look at it as neither. So that's something that I think we could do with getting rid of because you've always said that technology is moving within the body. If that's the case, then let the Apple watch continue for as long as it needs to as the leader in that sphere and then it will disappear into our wrists and then maybe we can wear the Bernay around our necks and then have completely free wrists. For me the trend I'd like to see come back is more bi color. Now I know that it's that every so often, but I like titanium and yellow gold and it's a very late 80s, early 90s vibe. I think it's super cool. I think that with heat blued hands or even a heat blue dial it would look exceptional. I think we could do with more of that. A bit of an edgier approach to the aesthetics question one has been answered. And on the clock we have 4 minutes 52 seconds but you've got a repost that's going to take us beyond five minutes. Go alon, go.
- [04:48]
Alon Ben Joseph
Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. Sequent comes to mind. So both of us have one. Is that something that you would categorize as a trend that you would like to disappear as well. It's Bluetooth connected. It's. It is half ass smart or not.
- [05:06]
Rob Nuts
Well, yeah, that fits the definition. I mean, I love Adrian. I love the watches that we own because they're very comfortable to wear. But that's the technology that I'm talking about. Really? Yes, it's somewhere between the two. I think that it's cool that he did it at that period. It was a thing, but it's a trend that I can do without now. Yeah, I mean I look at what the Apple watch is doing and my feelings have evolved on the subject because you have to go through these phases, obviously you have to have to see these things and you have to have the opportunity to buy them. But not everything's going to stick around forever. Are we really trying to convince ourselves that the technology now the most interesting thing about Sequent is not its Bluetooth functionality, in my opinion. And what I'd like to see more from the brand is the, is the power source. Like the fact that it's Auto Quartz, basically. Auto quartz, 100% love it. Brilliant. Great. That for me is a future for Sequent. I would live with that happily on my wrist because that is one thing that it is. But if I wanted functions on my watch, I can't beat the Apple watch. Like it's gone too far. It's too much better at a very reasonable price now because you can pick up a pre loved one even, or a refurbished one, which is what I would always get for a bit of tech like that for a few hundred euros. And I'm sorry, it's just better than everything else. Like I, I'm not saying that I love Apple, I'm not saying that I want Apple to. I'm not, certainly not an Apple bitch. You know, I'm not one of these, these huge fanboys. But the product is great. It's just a great product, does what it says on the tin. So for me, sequence should continue with the Auto Quartz. And Adrian's got plenty of like experience in design. He's responsible for some of the greatest watchers of the modern era, literally. So he's got the, he's got the credentials, he's got the ability. And autocorpts is something I want to see more of. Put those two things together, make that sequence go. Except that like the Bluetooth functionality is not enough of a lure anymore. So my honest opinion, no disrespect to Adrian, he's trying something, he's seen a Gap in the market. It's one of those gaps that needed to be filled at the time he filled it and now I think it's one of those gaps that we realize exists because there isn't really a need for it. So yeah, move on, develop the brand, take it in the direction, use the cachet is accrued with it already and give us more auto courts because I love that. So yeah, there you go. That's my honest answer. Question number two, what's a modern watch you think will become a future classic?
- [07:37]
Alon Ben Joseph
That begs the question, what's a classic? An evergreen. We had full length discussions of what is iconic. I the first watch that comes to mind is the Octo.
- [07:49]
Rob Nuts
Finissimo. Ah, same. That's honestly going to be my pick as well.
- [07:53]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, I, I believed it had the pedigree from day one. It was something new. I think that to look at the full definition of the question, a modern watch that can become a classic. Modern means it needs to be something new, a new design, something new that hasn't been done before. The Octavianismo is exactly that and it had everything in it. Fantastic design, groundbreaking. They literally won world records with every single okno that came out. And I believe it's beautiful. I'm not objective, I'm very much subjective. The first time I saw it, I fell head over heels in love. Bought one, wear one, love one. And that's the first watch that comes to mind.
- [08:38]
Rob Nuts
I love it, but I still think it could be a bit smaller diameter wise. And I know I'm nitpicking here but for me, you know, I think that the best, when I say best inverted commas, the most artistic, the truest representation of the concept is the original titanium one that you've got. I personally find it to be too thin versus its diameter on my wrist. Now therefore I've always preferred the steel model which is a couple of mil thicker, has a more robust water resistance. I think that that proportionally is a better design. If you had the titanium one, but you drop the diameter down by 3 millimeters for example, I think that that thinness is would work a lot better. That's what I'd like to see. But I 100% agree that is probably the easiest choice for a modern classic because it is like nothing else.
- [09:24]
Alon Ben Joseph
I know we're on a tight clock and we're doing like this speed dating style of ping pong of questions. But very quickly, Rob, what comes to mind is also Parmigiani. I think Parmigiani Fleurier with The tondas almost made it. They're there 30 years down the line. I dare to say these have become classics, but not don't always get the.
- [09:45]
Rob Nuts
Respect they should 100% agree. They don't get the respect they deserve. Not sure there's enough about the tonda. As much as I love it, I'd say the most unique thing about the Tonda. Maybe two things I could point to. One, the sort of drop lugs. The droplet lugs, as I like to refer to them. They're very beautiful, very elegant. And I do like the bezel with its sort of half fluting. Think that's great. Dial's gorgeous, but it's just a dial pattern. Like the Venissimo is something, something else. It's something other. It's in the category of the streamliner. You know, I love the Antarctic. I'd put that closer towards the tonda. I'd say that the octo finish symbol, the streamliner and then the Antarctic and the tonda. In terms of like classic silhouette and classic builds, they rank a little bit below the octof and as well. What do you think?
- [10:35]
Alon Ben Joseph
I'm with you 100%. These lugs are divine. It's the Parmigiani design DNA. And that was what I was referring at. The fluted bezel is the toric style. I love the 9050, but let's keep the speed up. Next question.
- [10:52]
Rob Nuts
Rob, this is one we have to pay attention to very carefully because it is specifically worded. What's your personal grail watch that isn't wildly expensive or unattainable. So I don't know what ceiling we should put on this in terms of wildly expensive. Obviously we can't go six figures for this. Let's, shall we say, should we set a budget of around 30k? Still pretty expensive, but what do you think? Is that a fair budget? 30k?
- [11:22]
Alon Ben Joseph
30 is already wide. I want. I was thinking 10k but okay. And I don't. I don't have the answer ready. So I'm not teeing up an answer here.
- [11:32]
Rob Nuts
Okay, well, let's. Let's call it 15 to split the difference. So for 15,000 ballpark, we won't be too hard on that. My personal grail is still the Omega Pl and I haven't bought one yet. It's always been my grail. If you don't believe me, go back to a blog to watch 2015. Patrick Kanza interviewed me on my grail watch, and even then it. It was the ploprof. Why haven't I bought one. Well, in those days I was a penniless watchmaker and I had less than no money, so I couldn't afford to buy a luxury watch. And by the time I did have the kind of money that would be necessary to have bought a Ploprof in the era during which I most desired them, I found that only the titanium versions were available. I don't like the titanium and the Ploprof. I don't want wearability in. I don't want comfort from a watch that looks like a tank that was designed to survive basically a nuclear blast. I want it to be a weapon. And so the reason why I've not bought one is my perfect PL has never been released. The best one that's ever been released, tough one. It's either either two generations ago. So it's either pre titanium all steel with the closed case back and I think it was probably an 1122520 derivative caliber, or it's the very most recent one, the anniversary edition, which has got this faded blue PVD coated ceramic dial with a closed case back showing a rather porno Poseidon racing over the surface of the ocean, dragged along in his chariot by some hippocampi. The proportions of that one are more akin to the original Ploprof way back in the day with like the Bakelite pusher or whatever it was made out of. It's really cool, but it's just not the kind of robust tool that I want it to be. So if they release that modern Ploprof in those new proportions, it's much smaller lug to lug, it's quite wide, but it's much smaller lug to lug with a black dial, a black bezel, all orange accents, orange pusher and an open case back. Because there's no need to close the case back on the Ploprof anymore. Technology gaskets, sapphires, they are good enough. Give me that on a shark mesh. That might be the best Ploprof ever. So you give me the 75 year Seamaster limited edition version, but with a black dial, black bezel, orange accents, same colorways as the previous generations in steel on the bracelet with an open case back showing me that Omega in house movement, that could be the very best one ever. The only thing I would tweak steel version that predates the titanium core versions is that I would open the case back and I would put an Omega branded movement in it rather than one of the old ETA dollops. So yeah, the perfect Ploprof has never existed in my mind. All of the elements are there. We have seen everything I'm asking for in one iteration or another. We've seen the colorway in the pre titanium steel version. We've seen the open case back in the titanium version with the beautiful movement. We've seen the great proportions in the most modern version. Give me that honor bracelet. Take my money.
- [14:53]
Alon Ben Joseph
Interesting. So you're basically saying I didn't buy that low hanging fruit grill watch because the specs are not there. Now these questions are excellent and I'm racking my brain. So I said to myself, okay, is there a grail watch that I didn't buy because budget wasn't an issue and because it wasn't a table usually this is almost a contradiction, right? The correlation between grills often either it's out of reach budget wise or it's unobtainable.
- [15:33]
Rob Nuts
Yeah. Or. Or I cheated maybe because mine doesn't exist. So maybe it does.
- [15:37]
Alon Ben Joseph
Exactly.
- [15:38]
Rob Nuts
Yeah. Sorry Lawrence, not fine.
- [15:40]
Alon Ben Joseph
It's interesting you took it actually to a direction that we didn't think of which was interesting because I often buy watches. Don't buy watches. Sorry. That something puts me off or is missing, you know, my stance on Roman numerals. So. But that's an issue I have that. I still need to find a therapist to help me with that but. Or to at least discover why that is. But to go back to this question, while listening to you, I was racking my brain. So I said to myself, okay, what are those watches on my wish list that aren't really grill ish but it's been been on that list for decades and why didn't I buy them? So Reverso Lecoultre Reverso has always been on that list and I've never actually owned one longer than a few days.
- [16:32]
Rob Nuts
You know why that is?
- [16:33]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, tell me.
- [16:34]
Rob Nuts
Well, I think it's because I'm the same. Like the Reverso is a model you should have, but it's a watch that's better off the wrist than it is on. It's like, it's like an art piece. It's almost sculptural, but it is sometimes a bit slim and stand upish on the wrist.
- [16:47]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. And my reasoning is I've never decided what I wanted to engrave on the case back because I want to close one. So maybe that is one that should finally be bought. And the second one is a vintage Breguet i20. I don't like the model ones I've Almost pulled the trigger on vintage pieces. Never done it. And those are my two picks.
- [17:14]
Rob Nuts
Maybe we should gift each other trts engraved Reversos at some point. That'd be cool. Having the TRTS logo on the back of a Reverso enameled. How about that?
- [17:24]
Alon Ben Joseph
Love it. What milestones should we pick to do that?
- [17:26]
Rob Nuts
Poor. I don't know. We passed a million downloads not so long ago. I forgot to make a big song and dance about that. By the way, we're on like 1.3 million downloads now. Whee. What else? Thousand episodes. This is like episode 260 something. So we've got a ways to go. But that'll be. It'll be around our 10 year anniversary. I guess that we put out a thousand episodes. That'd be pretty cool, won't it?
- [17:47]
Alon Ben Joseph
I would watch out with the pace that we're doing, being media sponsor. Media partner. Not sponsored, but media partner of that many fairs and. And the pace of recording that we do. I. I would watch out with that 1000. But anyways, great idea. To be continued. Next question for you, Rob. What was the first watch that truly hooked you and do you still own it?
- [18:14]
Rob Nuts
Okay, I've got three answers. Cheating. But the first watch I ever wore on my wrist that I consciously remember. There has been photographic evidence that disproves this fact. There was a watch that I've been seen wearing when I must have been about three years old. Nobody knows what it was. Nobody knows whether it was mine. I don't think it was. It must have been an elder relatives that I borrowed I guess. But ignoring that one. The first watch I remember wearing was a Smarties watch. And I mean Smarties. Little candy covered chocolate droplets that my friend James Spall lent me to wear during a Christmas play at primary school at St. Luke's in Glossop where I was schooled in my formative years because my character had to look at his watch and express shock that Santa Claus was late. I loved wearing a watch. I thought that that was really cool. Unfortunately I have to give that Smarties watch back to James. I don't know if he's still got it. Maybe giving it to his own kids. And following that. The next time I wore a watch was when I was 11. My dad bought me a Casio F94W, I think it was. Or F94. What's the code? Probably F94 for my secondary school. I wore that watch for years. It disappeared along the way. I bought it back for myself about two weeks ago. So I do have that watch, but I don't have the original one. But the watch that really convinced me to be a watchmaker I've never owned. And that was a Langer and, and it was, I believe, a Lange one. It was the movement more than the whole watch that convinced me. When I decided I was going to be a watchmaker or thought that it was a career path I might like to pursue. I ordered the Lange catalog, as I think I've conveyed before, poured over it for weeks. Fallen in love with the macro photography. And that was the one that really hammered home my passion. And it's never left me. And one day I will own a Lang Anton, I'm sure.
- [20:09]
Alon Ben Joseph
So for me it's hands down swatch. 1983, my dad became a dealer, gifted my brother and me 1. I was 4 years old. If you know Swatch, you remember the first ones were, I believe, four, six references. I got the black one with the white dial, Arabic numbers. And that sparked something in me. Obviously I couldn't read time yet. Then G shocks came up. That's the era. I remember my dad rocking IWC Porsche design watches. So you probably remember the chronograph with the integrated pushers in the titanium version and he had the blacked out with the compass. So I thought my dad was James Bond. He was MacGyver with those watches. Then in 84, 85, my dad rocked the re editions of the Brighton Chronomat made for Ferti color with the Rouleaux bracelet that you and I love so much. And, and, and that was a big watch and fully satin finished. That made an impression me how heavy it was. And my love for the Portuguese also comes from my dad. 1985, he rocked the 3000, 714. So the stainless steel Portigues chronograph automatic with the silver dial and pink gold numbers and blued hands and also pink gold hands. So that's what I remember vividly. The swatches, unfortunately I don't have. I do have still a lot of swatches, but there's something around the age of 10, 11, I still have hundreds of swatches. I have them hanging on my wall as art pieces. I had the maxi Swatch in my room that I still have. So that's my little trip down memory lane.
- [22:04]
Rob Nuts
Top stuff, very emotive and real Swatch fanatic by the sounds of things. I had a lot of Swatches in my life, but they've all gone by the wayside now, I think. I don't even. Oh, I've got my corto Maltese ones. Still, I kept those. Corto Maltese by Hugo Pratt. I love that cartoon character.
- [22:22]
Alon Ben Joseph
Cool anecdote and I'm super impressed how quality this watch is. My son now actually rocks these old swatches that I was wearing. So they literally lasted four decades. They're still running and we would say that plastic is throwaway culture. But swatches are that good that they.
- [22:45]
Rob Nuts
Keep thinking they do actually last quite a while in most cases. You've got to keep them in the right environment though, haven't you? Because you know, if you keep them in the sun, they can yellow or the plastic can crack. And you don't want to leave a battery in there after it's died because it will eventually leak and it will absolutely trash the movement. So be careful. If you treat this watch as well, they will treat you well back. Question number five. We're a bit behind on the time, but we're doing pretty well. Better than expected. It could go badly wrong here, though. What are the signs of a genuinely well made watch that most collectors overlook? Do you want to take this one or shall I have a go at it first?
- [23:19]
Alon Ben Joseph
The honor is yours.
- [23:20]
Rob Nuts
So I always go back to finishing, right? I go back to the transition between finishes. I think that is the, the clearest thing that is often overlooked collectors. It's an interesting term. If we're talking about someone who rocks up to boutiques with a loupe, they probably see this. If we're talking about someone that maybe has 10 or 15 watches that they cycle through and there are various values, probably from a few hundred to a few thousand, they're maybe they might not appreciate as instinctively that as a marker of good design and excellent machining. But for me, that's the, that's the key one. When I look at a piece of metal, if it looks like it's been bent or twisted in any way, if its form doesn't look flawless, then I'm instantly turned off. If I'm like, oh, you've stamped that piece of metal and you've heavily brushed or polished it, the edges are gone. It's. It's like a lump. It's buttery. I call them buttery edges. When you don't get that real sharp, crisp transition, that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for, you know, a watch like Pragma is a great example of a watch that has been smartly designed to give this sense of perfection. Because rather than face the issue of creating ever more complex chucks with which different angles can be finished on a Single piece case. They've broken the case into pieces, finished each component beautifully. Equivia did the same thing. If you look at one of Recharge's earlier Krivia cases, don't quote me on this, but I have a number in my head from one of the early days of it being like 68 components. That probably includes case back screws and whatnot, but it was just ridiculously complicated. There is a part of me, a part of me that thinks that's bad design, that you are cheating in a way, you're getting yourself out of a problem of your own making. But then again, it is totally valid to go down that route to make an ultra complex multi component housing for a watch to add nuance, look at even something like a gorilla watch. You remember those things that's still around, but you know, they were really sort of visible for a couple of years when they first came out. I think the model I used to have, I sold it eventually, but it was called the Fastback and had like a ceramic top bezel and then beneath that it had an aluminium under bezel before you got to the carbon case and that aluminium under bezel. Although to be fair, the finish in itself, actually the shaping of it wasn't perfect. What it did was it created a seamless transition from ceramic to aluminium to carbon. And so you got visuals that you just couldn't get from one piece of material, in their case, three different materials. That kind of creativity that speaks volumes to me. That is something that I would rank very highly and I do think that that's overlooked. One other thing, if I might say is look at the edges of your indexes and your hands. There's a big difference in hands pressed. Like hand pressed hands have crisp edges. I went through this development process with Stroud when they were looking at different hands, like what it cost when you chucked a couple more euros in the hand production, what you could get if you went to that next level, if you had them made by hand in Switzerland rather than stamped out by a soulless machine in Asia. You don't get the little flares, you don't get the little burrs, you don't get the little nicks on the edges of the hands. Same with the indexes. I know that Clement from Laventure has always prioritized how hand finishing above almost anything else. Like he has these hands made in Switzerland and they look a million dollars, like they elevate the watch to a completely different level. When you've got badly finished hands, you're not going to enjoy reading that watch over a long period of time. I'm sorry, but it's, it's a thing on which brands, even new brands should blow the budget. And we're talking the difference between like 5 quid and 10 quid for a handset. Now that sounds crazy to a buyer because you're thinking, wow, where's my money going? You know the answer to that question. But when it comes to the build budget, that's somewhere it's worth spending a few quid more.
- [27:38]
Alon Ben Joseph
Pros. I salute you, Rob. Beautiful. What can I add to that? Maybe taking it few notches down on this beautiful poetry that you've just shared, Rob. Quality. You can feel. You can see it. You can feel it. To see it, you need a trained eye. So I want to propose something broke. Maybe let's do an episode as a little guidebook, an audio guidebook to give our dear listeners tips on how to spot how something is handmade. Or when it's called things that come to mind is how do you know if hands are really blued or just painted? How do you explain anglage and the finishing of movements and what makes something handmade or not? So those are things that come to mind for me. I always say when people come into the store, look with your hands. Sounds stupid. What do I mean by that? Take it, feel it. Feel how cases are polished. If they're sharp, not sharp. The weight of things in your hands. Take a moment to relax, to absorb what you're seeing and what you're feeling. Do all the senses take a loop? See what Robbex just explained about hands, about dials and everything. So those are my little additions to this great question.
- [29:08]
Rob Nuts
Love, love, love that answer. Love that sign bite. Look with your hands. That is brilliant advice. I'm gonna stick with that. I'm gonna steal it. I'm gonna share it. I adore that brilliant, valuable content, that nice one. Question number six with me ranting. And it's my fault, I know I'm the problem here. We are slipping. Although I'm sure the listeners won't mind an episode that runs into 70 or 80 minutes. I'm sure they won't. Certainly not with these great questions. Laurian's number six has hosting the show changed how you view the industry or shaped your collecting habits. Well, I'm going to let you start with this one because I know your bank balance is screaming in the background.
- [29:44]
Alon Ben Joseph
Laurians, this show is the end of me. It's the end of everything. Me, my bank account, my sanity, my Marriage.
- [29:55]
Rob Nuts
I knew your marriage was going to be in there.
- [29:57]
Alon Ben Joseph
Business, other hobbies, it's, it's, it's a disease. It's, it's, it's an addiction. Addictions work people into the ground. I'm dead, I'm burned. But all kidding aside, this show has been amazing. It's brought me, I'm just talking for me. And Rob can answer for himself and the other two members can also chime in later or in a different episode. It has brought first and foremost, friendships that I didn't know were out there. So first and foremost, we've congregated a community that's amazing. It's qualitative, it's fun, it's authentic. It's what you see is what you get. No peer pressure, no flexing. It's like minded people. It's a sheer joy. I spend more time with my buddy Rob. A lot of it is virtual, but more and more also in person, which is amazing. We have two amazing new friends, David and Scarlett, obviously on the host side of things things and the guests we get. Obviously you meet people that on paper I should have meet them at fairs or wherever, but you don't. And, and, and that's also something I'm very grateful for. I'm grateful. So when I think of the pod, I, I just have positivity and I enjoy it. It gives me a lot of energy. I did not expect that. I didn't think I would enjoy it that much. And it, it gives me a lot of energy. It actually lifts my joy of being a watch collector. The downside is, yeah, I'm buying more. So the reason Rob and I started the Real Time show was to share the passion and knowledge about watchmaking. And I am a consumer as well. So every episode that I'm not on myself, I digest as a consumer. And while sitting in on all the interviews, while recording, you go on a journey. And these journeys are amazing, these stories of our guests are amazing. And yeah, as a true addict, you do get high on your own supply. So that is what it has done to me. What has it done for you, Rob?
- [32:30]
Rob Nuts
Well, it's opened a lot of doors. It's made me more aware of the nuts and bolts of the industry, how people are united in their struggle to make good watches. I have learned a great deal and I think, I guess this is what anyone that's been in anything for decades would say to you. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know. It's humbling in that way. It has stoked my passion, a passion didn't really need stoking, but it's just dumped a vat of gasoline on it, I guess, to do my own thing as well. And it has emboldened me because I've had ideas since before I was even a watchmaker of what a watch I designed would look. And those ideas have changed over time. They've been influenced by trends. I've seen different gaps open and close in the market. I've been too slow to act, and I've been inspired by the blessed ignorance of a lot of people who have just dived straight in. And, yeah, they've had to swim against the tide because they didn't know what they were getting into. And the undercurrent of the industry is. Is strong and roiling, to say the least, but they've survived. You know, maybe someone's thrown them a life preserver or maybe they've been chucked a rope here, there and everywhere to help them on their journey. But there is a desire to help people who are doing good things for good reasons. And I feel supported by the family that we've built up around us. And I feel like if I did have a go now, and I will imminently, I think, have a go at doing something, even if it's just as an exercise, like as a hobby, as it were, you know, I mean, I have my career. I don't really need to start a watch brand. I don't necessarily want to transition into being a watch brand owner full time, but I'd like to make something. I'd like to create something from scratch. And I've designed watches for other brands and I've worked constantly in the development of new products and new communication strategies for brands currently. And I love that. I take a lot from it, but I would like to go out there and have a go. And so I think hosting the show has given me that confidence in that push, the last little push that I needed. And has it shaped my collecting habits. I think I've bought fewer things since I started hosting the show. I'm the opposite from you because I think that my goals have solidified and I have become more determined to do my own thing and to do things practically with brands. The other day I was putting together a pitch for a watch I've just designed for another brand that asked me to have a go at, you know, bringing together a new collection. And one of the pages in this pitch was selected former projects of my own. And I couldn't believe how many watches I've been involved in either designing or bringing to market. And I sat back and I looked at it and I was like, wow, could you imagine that first time I strapped on James Spall's smarty watch on the stage of St Luke's in the early 90s, pretending to be Roger Red Hat that I would be here now having been lucky enough to work with so many great people. I just want to keep doing it. So I will, I think one day go back to more active watch buying and curating a collection that will be my forever collection. And there will be a ploprof in it, I'm sure. I hope if Omega does exactly what I want them to. Or maybe I'll just scratch the itch by buying one of those steel models. But yeah, that's how it's changed. It has changed me. It's made me more deferential and more determined, I would say. So that's my answer. In summary, question number seven. We might be able to answer this one quickly and get back on track time wise. What's the weirdest or most unexpected moment that's happened during a recording? Alon.
- [36:29]
Alon Ben Joseph
I think that one crypt I dropped the mic. I don't know if you remember, I gave everybody a heart attack. I. I pulled the. I forgot I had headphones in, wired into the microphone and I rolled back with my chair and I think the, the microphone fell. I think that. But, but you know what? Either you and I are so weird, so everything we do doesn't stand out so much to answer this question or if we flip the coin 180 degrees, not so much weird happens. I don't know actually.
- [37:04]
Rob Nuts
Well, for me there's one thing that stands out and I, I mean, because we are weirdos, I guess it didn't really strike me as hugely weird at the time, but it was recording with Martin Fry when he had his shirt off, it was funny. Like, I mean I probably took my shirt off in solidarity to be fair. So being semi nude with one of the co founders of Urwerk while recording the podcast is, is probably right up there, as I guess you'd say. One of the weirder things with, you know, this is a long time past. This is like episode 15 or something like that, I think. So it's. It's a long time ago but yeah, it always made me laugh. I just felt like this a wonderful intimate environment we've created here where like an absolute legend, an industry titan like Martin, just comfortable enough to just rock up. Of course we had the video off, but he told us Quite clearly he was in Thailand or somewhere, wasn't he was on a beach or. I don't know. And he was just. Yeah, tits out. Loved it. Great. Anytime. So it's a lad, by the way. It's one of the things we do encourage on a real time show. If you want to record shirtless, then by all means, go ahead. Question eight. Moving on. Okay, this one is a good one. It's a slight wrinkle on a question we've had before, but different. Different enough, I think, to deserve its own answer. What's a design detail you absolutely love that most people never notice? I have an answer for this. I imagine this is easier for me than it is for you. Do you want me to go ahead and answer this one?
- [38:30]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, let's flip it up a bit or mix it up a bit. You guess mine and I guess yours. What would I say?
- [38:36]
Rob Nuts
You'll never guess mine. You will never, ever guess mine. If you do, I will buy you a watch of your Choice up to €8,000.
- [38:46]
Alon Ben Joseph
Wow.
- [38:47]
Rob Nuts
A second. I'm tempering it there because there is a chance, but I don't think that. No, I don't think there's a chance. What is a design detail that. Huh. Okay, well, I'm gonna have a stab. Can I have two guesses? You've not offered me a watch of €8,000. Okay, so. Okay. Right. Well, my first. My first guess, which I'm gonna trump with something a little more basic. But my first guess was gonna be something lug related, like a dropped lugs was gonna. What I was going to say, like to improve the ergonomic fit of a watch on the wrist. That was my first guess. My second, very generic guess would be the click of a bezel, but I think a lot of people probably do think of that.
- [39:25]
Alon Ben Joseph
Interesting. Though I didn't want to mention those lugs may be less of a thing on my list. Clicks. I'm very sensitive to it. I'm very sensitive to the noise of a rotor. And the clicking of a bezel is divine. Or clicking of a pusher of a chronograph divine. Hence I love minute repeaters. It's literally top of my list of grand complications. Together with a perpetual calendar, only two wheel. Now. I wanted to say, which strikes me as odd how little people obsess over fonts as I do. Hence, Lauriens, I adore your colleague Lee. He's a genius. And by by coincidence, today somebody in TRTS community, the day that we were are recording this, posted a wall clock and he Said, oh, I'm in this place, and I'm looking at this wall clock, and I love the fonts. Hey, Alon, I'm thinking of you. So it's nice to be recognized as the font guy. Ironically, I immediately guessed it was an IKEA clock, and he had to take the wall, the wall clock off the wall to see what it was made, because he's obviously not staying in his own place. And I, I, I gained respect by guessing that it was an IKEA clock, but it had, it had a very distinct font, which impressed me, and hence I remembered it was an IKEA clock. So, long story short, fonts really do it for me. And I'm definitely not the only one. Little shout out to a Netflix series called Abstract. And I think season two, there is an episode about fonts, and a font designer got inspired by 1950 watches. So that is one of my favorite Netflix episodes ever. So, but, but it seems, no pun intended, fonts are very much overlooked, so they're underappreciated. So this is something that I'm very, very sensitive to. And that's one of the reasons Fears is so high up on my list of favorite brands. And I like almost every watch in the collection because every font is unique, and that's very rare, I think.
- [41:44]
Rob Nuts
Imagine if he'd taken the wall off the clock. That'd be a mess, wouldn't it? Taking the clock off the wall is one shows his priorities. All right, so go ahead and try and guess mine for a watch up to the value of €8,000, the finished.
- [41:59]
Alon Ben Joseph
Polishing of a case.
- [42:01]
Rob Nuts
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, I would be repeating myself there. This is, this is esoteric beyond belief. It is the thickness or diameter, I suppose, of a crown pipe. Now, not the crown tube that screws into the case. The pipe that extends from the crown into which the stem thread screws. Often it is surrounded by gaskets. One or two, preferably two. And the reason for this is one of my bugbears is when you unscrew a crown to wind it or set the time, and there is a lot of lateral play. The crown is movable from side to side. Now, it has to have a little bit of wiggle, teeny, tiny bit, so that it can turn so that it doesn't lock up. But with the presence of a gasket, I've always thought, well, you can minimize its lateral play by increasing the thickness of the gasket or increasing the thickness of the pipe relatively. The reason why this bothers me is because if you have a very thin and even short pipe on a crown, too much lateral pressure on it when it's unscrewed for winding or setting could break the stem, potentially. If you hollowed out the tube a little more and you increase the thickness of the pipe, there would be more rigidity in that. It can't be so long because obviously the crown has to push back in. And, you know, the pipe can only go so far down the stem before it has to stop to allow the stem to enter the keyless work. But for me, they could be longer and they could be thicker, and you could have a much securer winding experience or setting experience as a result. So that's something that gets me, you know, and you notice the difference, you know, when you've got a very, very slim pipe on the crown versus when you've got a slightly thicker one, you can see the wiggle when you pull it out. And that. That's one little design detail that. That sticks out to me. That I guess doesn't stick out to everyone ever.
- [44:04]
Alon Ben Joseph
Stuck out to you, no pun intended, yet stuck out to me.
- [44:09]
Rob Nuts
Kudos.
- [44:09]
Alon Ben Joseph
I like it. I love it. I'm happy. I lost 8k to an amazing answer and only in Watchmaker Slash Watch Idiot Savant can come up with this. I love it.
- [44:21]
Rob Nuts
All right, glad that you appreciate it. Moving on to. And I'm glad you added the word savant and didn't just stick with idiot. Thanks. Moving on to question nine. How do you handle the balance between covering brands honestly and maintaining industry relationships? Great question. A question. Every media title should be posed every now and then to keep us honest. How do we do it, Alan?
- [44:46]
Alon Ben Joseph
What you see is what you get. We are the real time show. Everything is real about us, the four hosts and everything that we put out there. And our compass is integrity while having fun. We'll say what we think and we think well, we feel what we say. So I think by nature we're not rude, and by nature we're very passionate. So I don't think we often rub people the wrong way. We most probably have done several times in the last two and a half, almost three years that we exist with this podcast. I don't think too often we'll have dialogues. We never criticize for the sake of burning someone or a brand or a product. We just share opinions. We are independent, we're opinionated. And you can't always please everyone. And I don't think you should always please everyone. And I think our colleagues should do a bit more of that, and I think that brands should not have such long toes that everybody, they think steps on. And there's nothing wrong with criticism. I mean, look at how cars are reviewed or food or restaurants. It's not done enough in the watch industry, in my humble opinion.
- [46:24]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, I think there's a few things to say on it. Firstly, I love the long toes idiom. Is that something you say in Dutch?
- [46:30]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. You say lange teine. So when you have long toes, people step on them and you shout, ow, ow, ow all the time.
- [46:36]
Rob Nuts
That is incredible. We don't really have that in English. Or if we do, I've not heard it before, so I'm going to start using that and confuse my peers. That'll be hilarious. So there's several things to say on this subject. Okay, so firstly, we set ourselves out with the goal of being independent. We do not sell content. As everybody knows. We have co designed a couple of watches with brands we are co designing more. And the concept is that those watches are not limited. So there's no push for fomo. Some of them will probably be limited in the future because of necessities, brands, necessities. And we say, oh, if you want to support the show, you can buy one of these watches, but if you don't, that's also fine. It's a way of us staying active. It's a way of us, you know, putting our money where our mouth is, so to speak, and say, no, we do this with this brand, so we're going to do that. So we set ourselves out to be independent, and that meant that we had to be open to criticizing any and anything, any and everything that we came across. So one thing that we do, one thing I've always really done when it comes to maintaining honest opinions is we mostly work with brands that we are enthusiastic about, mostly work with brands that we are keen to work with. So we'll reach out to brands that we want to discuss, that we want to give exposure to. And so generally in those cases, we skew positive. Now, there are cases, of course, where we work with major brands that do so much and release so many models that can be no hope that we'll like every single thing they do or every piece that they release. And in those cases, we have to say, okay, well, we don't like this one as much as we like this other one. We try and always sort of temperature a criticism with a positive, say, oh, I don't like the new model from Mortar My pk, but I'm a big fan of the old one that they did in this year, blah, blah, blah. For example, we would say that. So it's like, yeah, we have a reason for our critique. There are, I think, several ways to go about criticizing someone. You can just jump on a bandwagon and pour fuel on a fire if you want to get clicks or go viral, or you can give a reasoned justification for why you don't think a certain product is where it needs to be in terms of quality or why it maybe doesn't fit the story or the time that the industry is traversing as well as it could. So I think we tend to skew towards the latter. We tend to responsibly criticize. My response to brands in past roles where I've been selling positions in media, when they come to us and say, hey, how the hell do you dare criticize us? We're paying you. I say, well, look, you know, people come to us for advice and they come to us for guidance. They come to us for educated opinion. And if we don't like or approve of what you're doing, we have to say it. Otherwise when we do compliment your brand, there's no credibility behind that compliment whatsoever. It's just a bought opinion. And if you don't like what we're saying about your brand, if you don't like that we don't like what you've done, do better, do something else, listen to us or, or don't even either own it and say, okay, this isn't a criticism that we identify with. Our data shows us different things. They show that our audience wants this and this analyst doesn't know what they're talking about. Fine, totally fine. You can say that. Don't get butt hurt about it and come to us and go, oh, why didn't you like our new 26 millimeter quartz powered diamond studded ladies watch? It's like, well, we didn't, you know, and we've explained why we didn't like it. And if you don't like that, then do with that criticism what you will. But I think ultimately the biggest takeaway I have from this question is that we are just one part of the buying experience. I think there are very few people, very few consumers in the world who will buy or not buy something based on one channel's opinion. I think that when people are making purchasing decisions of this nature, they will consume a huge amount of content and, and they will go to many different outlets and they'll read your sponsored posts, they'll read the standard press releases, they'll Read the technical information on the website. They'll go through a lot of op eds and places like us, and they'll try and get justifications for their gut feeling about a watch. Normally. Normally you look for something to agree with your initial reaction. You see a watch, you like it. You want to know that you're not making the bad decision. You see a watch, you don't like it. You want to know that you're not missing out on something that you should be obvious to you. So you do your research. So we're just a component in that. I don't think that we ever stand over people and say, go buy this watch. And they do. And if they're disappointed, they would come back and blame us. I think that we're just part of the rich tapestry that is watchmaking and watch analysis, and we offer our opinions there in full acknowledgement of the fact that we are just one step on that purchasing pathway. So we approach it as such. We. We talk to brands directly when we don't like something that they're doing, and we'll say, look, you know, we don't really think this is gonna hit the mark. What's the justification for it? What are you thinking? And then we'll communicate our misgivings to the audience along with the brand's justification, taking a tempered view of it. I wouldn't say it's pure, basic watch journalism. It is obviously colorful. It is a critique. We are critics more than we are journalists. That's fair to say, I think, but that's the role we play. It is frustrating sometimes, I have to say, because obviously we've built something here now. We've built a corner of the industry that is our own. We're known for the fact that we don't charge brands, and therefore we don't make any money from the Real Time show. We haven't made any money since we started. We have obviously made some money from watches sold, but we've spent 10 times the amount on building the podcast and getting it to the point that we're at now. So, you know, would we love to be able to turn around and then start charging ten grand an episode? Our bank balances would, but then we wouldn't be the Real Time show anymore. So we have to think about how we can grow, continue to grow and continue to invest money in it, which will require new monetization strategies in the future. But we will do those in full transparency and with the advice of our community that know what they can expect when they tune in. So fair if not succinct, answer Alon.
- [52:43]
Alon Ben Joseph
Did you ever study law or politics?
- [52:46]
Rob Nuts
It's been suggested once or twice that I should have been a lawyer. Maybe a politician, too. I'm short, so that helps. I could be a good leader.
- [52:56]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well done.
- [52:56]
Rob Nuts
Well said.
- [52:57]
Alon Ben Joseph
Really, I couldn't have done it better, and I don't want to do it better. Hence, I work with you.
- [53:03]
Rob Nuts
Right. Then let's move on to question 10, before I quit my watch career and take the bar exam. You're stranded on a desert island with one. Oh, this is good. With one watch brand's entire catalog. Who are you picking? Desert island, One watch brand's entire catalog. Okay, away you go.
- [53:25]
Alon Ben Joseph
Cast away. Well, obviously you don't have watchmakers there, and you don't have the tools on this deserted island, so you need watches that keep on running. So they need to be waterproof. And there are no watches yet with a sat foam built in. So there it goes. I'll go for Rolex. Not only because the interval for service is very long and most of them are waterproof. Hence the name oyster. Ha ha ha ha ha. But in case pirates come by or whatever, people make my deserted island less deserted. Not talking about monkeys or other animals. I would use it as currency to get my ass off that island.
- [54:12]
Rob Nuts
Right. Clever. I've been through four or five answers in the short window you gave me there to think about this. When you first said, no watchmakers, no tools, I thought, oh, he's gonna go for quartz. And then it dawned on me. Well, your battery will eventually run out, and there's no batteries there. So you're probably actually better on a desert island with something mechanical. And you have the whole catalog. So if you picked something like Omega, which is not a bad choice. The catalog's enormous. So you'd have like. You'd have like 400 watches, so you can just keep 399 of them in a box or bury them, I guess, and cycle through them as necessary if one should break. So you got a huge option there. But would any Omega really be that useful? Some of the quartz Speedmasters could be quite interesting for their functionality, but you're on a desert island now. What I like about the Omega pick is that you do get the Ploprofs, which would be good weapons, but only if you had the old ones. Current catalog, not so good. Titanium, not so great. The current steel model, smaller, and it's on a rubber strap so you don't get as much torque on it when you swing it. The shark or something that you might swim out and want to punch in the nose. I'm thinking I've got two answers. One of them is not as good for currency trading. So the two I'm thinking of for one very specific reason. I'm thinking of Bulgari and isotope. Can you think what links these two watch brands that might be useful on a desert island?
- [55:50]
Alon Ben Joseph
Sorry, links. You mean links of bracelet links?
- [55:54]
Rob Nuts
No, they're two brands that are connected by one model in each line. I think would be particularly useful on a desert island. So I'm thinking, what I'm saying is like, I think the isotope is the best and I'm actually probably going to choose isotope. And I'll tell you for why. If you don't guess, Bulgari would be better if you got picked up by pirates. Because you could trade like the solid goldsmith models, you could trade the serpentes, you could trade all of that and you'd look fabulous when they found your corpse on the desert island if you weren't spotted by a pirate ship or a cruise liner passing by. But there's a model in each collection that might assist in rescue.
- [56:33]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, you mean the mirrored October, the isotope mercury because it has a mirror dial so you can use the reflection of the sun to spot to airplanes. To spot you. Is that why.
- [56:45]
Rob Nuts
That's exactly why. And also to start. Also to start a fire.
- [56:49]
Alon Ben Joseph
Amazing.
- [56:49]
Rob Nuts
The first thing I thought of was, oh, I need something that will help me start a fire. I was thinking, oh, which watches are coated in like strikeable materials? I thought probably nothing really. But mirrored. Yeah, mirrored would give you the option to focus the sun's rays on dry twigged and also to signal for help. So isotope because they're more robust, I guess. There you go, Jose. Cheers.
- [57:10]
Alon Ben Joseph
Love it. Well done, Rob. Kudos. Two points, Dupois.
- [57:14]
Rob Nuts
Okay, question number 11, as we tick over the hour mark of the standard recording, what non watch item do you obsess over just as much as horology?
- [57:27]
Alon Ben Joseph
Easy. Let's guess each other's. And I think it's an easy one. And I think everyone in the TRTS community will guess both ours as well. So pause the recording, think twice, play along with us. Guess Rob's. Their minds. Okay, when you're on pause, Rob, you guess mine.
- [57:43]
Rob Nuts
Well, I think you're going to say trainers. Like sneakers?
- [57:45]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yep. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
- [57:47]
Rob Nuts
Big sneaker heads. Yeah, yeah, easy one for me. I was going to say stroke waffles to be like funny, but yeah, sneakers.
- [57:55]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, yeah, sneakers. Although for the record, I Don't obsess about editing as I as much as watches.
- [58:02]
Rob Nuts
Same same.
- [58:03]
Alon Ben Joseph
Watches is. Watches is every day. Every single day. I dare almost to say every hour. Obviously I work in it, so it's not fair, but okay, I digest as much content as possible. Sneakers. I almost log in to the sneaker apps every day, but I forget once a while I read Sneaker Freakers. That's a magazine app subscription to. I buy almost all the sneaker books, but I don't. Well, I don't watch so many YouTube videos about watches, but watches, I digest everything. Sneakers, less videos. I do read newsletters, but not so much just to see what's dropping. Right, because there's a higher frequency of launches of sneakers and they also have quick strikes. So that triggers fomo. But nothing beats watches for me. I don't really dare to call myself a petrol head, which is a term that sadly will disappear soon with all these electric cars, but okay, that's a different discussion for you, Rob. It's American sports and the sports gear, I would guess. And a second close runner up I guess would have been politics for you.
- [59:17]
Rob Nuts
Well, I believe the question specifies an object.
- [59:21]
Alon Ben Joseph
Baseball caps.
- [59:24]
Rob Nuts
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, I think that's gotta be the answer. Yeah, I suppose outside interest. Yeah, politics is up there for sure, but nothing comes close to sport for me. So yeah, specifically American sport, you're right. And the objects associated therewith are the things that I would, yeah, obsess over just nowhere near as much as watches. Like absolutely nowhere near. But if I were to pick anything that's correct. Yeah, baseball caps is the answer. The only other thing I suppose I collect these days and I have far too many for my one head. But yeah, well done. Guess we know each other pretty well. I'm fair after all.
- [60:00]
Alon Ben Joseph
We do. How many caps do you have? Because I recently had a quick look at mine because my son is starting to wear and slowly collecting caps as well. Besides that, we get many gifted at fairs, but do you have like more than 100, 200, 300?
- [60:17]
Rob Nuts
No, no, no, no. At all. No, I believe I can't the other day and I have downsized a little recently. Although they're not sell to be fair that you. You don't often get a great return on them and I do tend to wear most of them. I keep some box fresh. I've got some sports specialties still stickered and tagged caps that I found in a sports shop in Alcudia on Majorca. They were new old stock from the early 90s. And they were selling them for like €10 a pop. And I walked in and they had like Charlotte Hornets, Seattle Sonics, Anaheim Mighty Ducks or Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, whichever one you want. And I was blown away. I was like, whoa, whoa, hang on a second. What are these caps? And they're like, oh, we've had them for ages, nobody wants to buy them. I was like, I'll take them all. Do you have any more in the back? And they went in the back and they found a box full and they brought another six or seven, some Rockets ones, some Raptors ones, Georgia Bulldogs. So I bought the lot and I did some research and the Mighty Ducks one is sort of super rare. It's valued at like €280 or something. I never really worn it. I do just keep it as like a, you know, a showpiece. But for the most part I do like to use them. And I think I have about 60 plus in my rotation. So not as many as you're imagining, but enough.
- [61:40]
Alon Ben Joseph
I also have that little obsession, caps. I also love the American sports, especially basketball. So at the jury jerseys and the jackets and starter and that kind of stuff. But I also obsessed about New York. So I believe it was 89. I bought in New York, like a woolen fitted new era New York Yankees baseball cap that I still have. It shrunk because it's wool and it got wet. But I actually kept it for my son. So my question to you as a, as a professional, what are the best baseball caps out there? And bonus question, do you curve the cap, the sun cap, or do you wear it straight like all the well street style people do?
- [62:26]
Rob Nuts
The bill or the peak is the term we'd probably use for that part of the cap. I'm a curver. Yeah, I am. I am not cool enough to wear many of my caps with a straight bill. If they are collectible and they have a flat bill, I'll keep them on worn for that reason. But if I'm going to wear a cap, like if it's in my regular rotation, then yeah, I do curve and a couple of tips. You can curve a peak quite effectively by warming it up with a hair dryer because there's a plastic, plastic line in the middle of them and you can bend it around something like a thick aerosol or a big bottle or something just to give it that extra, extra bend. And then, you know, when it cools, it'll harden in shape over time. It is possible for those plastic inserts to shatter. It's only happened to me once. But it is something you got to be careful of. If it's old, if it's brittle, if it's not been worn a lot or if it's been stored in the sun and then you bend it without warming it prior and taking it very slow, they can crack and shatter. So be careful of that. Best brand. Well, the best maker of caps in world is probably Ebbots Field in Seattle. I think they make proper wool and stuff. They use original materials. They are made in the USA for the most part. Although I must warn anyone going to ebbitz.com now that they've recently sold out and been bought by fanatics, they've slimmed down their range drastically. They don't offer as many made in America things anymore. They offer very few authentic flannels, which was their real USP in the 80s when they started making baseball flannels using actual original material that was sourced from warehouses that had new old stock of these rolls of material that the founder went out and sought so he could make traditional baseball flannels, which is an incredible endeavor and built a brand like few others in the street and sportswear space. So they're probably my favorite in terms of mainstream stuff that you'll see on the shelf. It's going to come down to shape of your head and the way you like to wear a cap. So new era is ubiquitous. I'm not actually a huge fan despite probably the majority of my caps being made by new era. Of the fit of new areas, what I find difficult for me is that if you are wearing a straight bill or a flat bill if you prefer, then it creates these little gaps next to the side of my forehead. If you've got a different shaped head, this might not be the case, but it sort of stretches out the cap. If you bend it, those gaps disappear like right at the front, like on your temples. I don't like that gap. I think it looks like the cap is like perched on your head. One way to sort of get away with it is to wear it at an extreme angle so that the peak is like straight up. But you look a little bit like, you know, a five year old kid that's kicked his ball over the neighbor's fence like asking for it back. So I think personally my favorite off the shelf fit might be like a Mitchell and Ness snapback. I think that their, their body shape is a little less high crown than a new era. The peaks tend to be a bit more malleable. The snapback allows for, you know, your hair to Grow, because if you wear fitted caps like a seven and a quarter or seven and three eighths as I flip between, you can't wear them when your hair's long. And then when your hair's short, then they rattle around on your head ridiculously. Another underrated one is American Needle. They make really good caps off the shelf. They do a low profile baseball cap, which is superb. Like it's. It's really wearable. It's great for a daily wear. And a surprising very, very basic one. Although they don't make so many for sports teams anymore. Adidas, when they were the official kit sponsors of the NHL to the hockey kit to the hockey league, they made some really good pre curve bill trucker caps, snapbacks, which fit like an absolute dream. And they were like just a brilliant daily wear just to chuck on when you're going for a run or going for a walk or something. They were top, top quality. So, yeah, don't know if I answered that. I went around the houses a little bit, but yeah, I'd say the best of the best in terms of quality. Ebbett's Fields. Probably the best. Under the radar, off the shelf, American Needle. And then a good, ubiquitously available one. Mitchell and Ness answered well enough.
- [66:55]
Alon Ben Joseph
Amazing. And I need an Abbott Fields cap.
- [67:02]
Rob Nuts
I'll send you one. I'll send you one. We had. We had Archonauts caps made by Ebbets. Because I'm a baseball fanatic, we had them made by the best in the business. So the first thing, three Archonaut caps at Ebbett's field. And I have one in my office right here with your name on it. So I'll. I'll give you one. I'll give you one for Raf as well. So there you go.
- [67:19]
Alon Ben Joseph
Thank you. Thank you. Last question. If TRTS was turned into a Netflix series, who would play each of you? So we need to decide what series. Right.
- [67:34]
Rob Nuts
Well, I think it's turned into the Real Time show series. I think that it's a dramatization of our podcast. I think that's what she's asking. Not if it was turned into Harry Potter. Although it's probably HBO or something like that.
- [67:44]
Alon Ben Joseph
Okay, let's answer. Let's answer both ways.
- [67:46]
Rob Nuts
So.
- [67:48]
Alon Ben Joseph
So the Real Time show is an actual show.
- [67:51]
Rob Nuts
Yeah.
- [67:51]
Alon Ben Joseph
Cinematic. On Netflix.
- [67:53]
Rob Nuts
Yeah. Just following us around the watch industry. So, like, if. If it was gonna pick an actor, are you gonna pick you and am I gonna pick me or are we gonna pick each other?
- [68:04]
Alon Ben Joseph
We can do both.
- [68:05]
Rob Nuts
It's fair. Okay. I wish I wish I'd prepped this question because I'm sure that there's lots of good answers that I could come up with. All right. This could get pretty quickly offensive and self aggrandizing at the same time. Oh, God. Who's gonna go first? So we'll give ourselves a little moment to think about this. You interpreted the question as if. If TRTS was turned into a Netflix series, like a pre existing series.
- [68:37]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the first thing I came to mind is Suits. And obviously you are a wise ass like Mike. So you're Mike.
- [68:46]
Rob Nuts
I don't know who that is. I've never seen it. I'll Google it. Carry on.
- [68:52]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, you know what, you have to, you have to know the series. Anyway, so our dear listeners, you probably know what I mean if you've seen Suits.
- [69:00]
Rob Nuts
Isn't he like, he's the idiot savant. Isn't he like the non trained guy off the street that sort of.
- [69:05]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like, that's like a genius. Okay, you, you think you're a genius, right?
- [69:11]
Rob Nuts
I don't think. No. By every provable metric, I am. Yeah, exactly.
- [69:15]
Alon Ben Joseph
So that's what that, that's something Mike would have said.
- [69:18]
Rob Nuts
So he'd also be right, I guess.
- [69:21]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. And, and, and I, and I could be either because the other guys literally wear suits and everything. So obviously everybody wants to be Harvey and. But I could equally be the, the schmuck that I forgot his name now.
- [69:36]
Rob Nuts
Is it Lewis?
- [69:37]
Alon Ben Joseph
Lewis. Lewis. Lewis. Yeah.
- [69:39]
Rob Nuts
See, I've never seen the show, but pop culture and. Amazing how it gets into your brain like that.
- [69:42]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, amazing. Don't know. So, so that's the first thing I, I would said if we would mirror a existing show. Show. And then today on Netflix you have Seinfeld, which easily. We could have been Seinfeld as well. And, and that is. And, and then it's harder to pick roles, but I guess you're Kramer because Kramer is an idiot savant. He's a genius. That is goofy.
- [70:16]
Rob Nuts
So.
- [70:16]
Alon Ben Joseph
And I can, and I could be either. I can either be George or Jerry.
- [70:23]
Rob Nuts
Yeah. Okay. I can. I guess Kramer fits. Yeah. All right, interesting. So if we had to choose actors to represent us in a. The Real Time show, live show, who would. Who would we pick? I guess they don't necessarily have to be actors. They could be comics as well. I suppose they could transition.
- [70:41]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, obviously. Al Pacino, Robert De Niro. Come on, dude. Or are you Joe Pesci?
- [70:47]
Rob Nuts
I'm a bit more Joe Pesci. I think, yeah. Oh, God, what a good question. So I'm not, I'm not claiming either of these, but just. Well, with. Because we're thinking out loud and we're gonna have some fun with this one. You know those face programs you used to be able to upload your face and it would tell you what actor you look like?
- [71:03]
Alon Ben Joseph
I don't know that. No.
- [71:04]
Rob Nuts
Okay. So I used to do this all the time. It was, it was a fun thing years ago. And I always used to get one of two. Funnily enough, one is very aggrandizing. One is, I think you could probably see it if you pulled up a picture of him. I think I can see that more than the first one. One was always Robert Downey Jr. Now, that might have been the facial hair, the fact that I'm trying to look like him, but don't, I don't think I look much like him. I think a lot of people have said it to me in real life. I think it's a vibe. I think it's the kind of like Tony Stark, slight asshole vibe that I give off. I think I give off a bit of a Tony Stark vibe in a sort of watchmaking context. And I don't mean that to compliment myself. I mean that in the worst sense of his character. And the other one that always used to pop up, funnily enough, was Sean Hayes, who played Jack in Will and Grace, you know, the flamboyantly gay best friend of Will who would do the Just Jack thing. I'm doing the hands. I'm actually doing the hands while we're recording the Just Jack. You know, when he had this vision of a one man show where he would be like the star and he was actually my favorite character in Will and Greece anyway, as it was. But he does look a bit like me, I have to say. I, I think he does. He's got better skin than I have. But Sean Hayes, have you ever, have you ever. Do you know who he is?
- [72:15]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yes, and I see it, I see you flapping the hand. So, yeah, it's a funny one.
- [72:20]
Rob Nuts
So until I can think of a better one, I'll go, I'll go with that. But who would you want to play you? There's a different question. Not who would, but who would you want to play?
- [72:32]
Alon Ben Joseph
So I have this illusion that I am an elegant gentleman.
- [72:38]
Rob Nuts
A delusion.
- [72:39]
Alon Ben Joseph
A delusion. I, I, One of my favorite movies, I have many, but one of them is Thomas Crown Affair.
- [72:49]
Rob Nuts
Okay, both of them. The original, that was Steve McQueen, right? And the second was Pierce Brosnan. Yeah. Not seen either.
- [72:56]
Alon Ben Joseph
You haven't. Wow.
- [72:58]
Rob Nuts
I haven't. I know the theme tune. Windmills of your mind, is it? Yeah, something like that.
- [73:04]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So. Well, okay. Civil queen is. Is not amongst us anymore. I. I think that Pierce Brosnan, obviously, he's. He's known and popular and gets a lot of good credits. I don't think he. He gets everything he deserves, especially as James Bond.
- [73:21]
Rob Nuts
That.
- [73:21]
Alon Ben Joseph
I do think he did a good job.
- [73:24]
Rob Nuts
So. I don't know.
- [73:24]
Alon Ben Joseph
I'm thinking of him. Andy Garcia comes to mind. Some people said I. We had some resemblance back when I had longer hair. And for you, I'm just thinking of the. The chap that was lucky enough to marry Liv Blakely.
- [73:39]
Rob Nuts
Blake Lively.
- [73:40]
Alon Ben Joseph
Blake Lively. Her husband. What's his face?
- [73:43]
Rob Nuts
You mean Ryan Reynolds?
- [73:44]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yes, that's you.
- [73:46]
Rob Nuts
Ryan Reynolds. That's.
- [73:48]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah.
- [73:48]
Rob Nuts
Very complimentary.
- [73:50]
Alon Ben Joseph
Well, he's. He's lucky to resemble you.
- [73:54]
Rob Nuts
I think he's. He's probably a bit. A bit tall and a bit pretty, but. Okay, so you've gone for what, Andy Garcia and Ryan Reynolds. Yeah, because I've. Okay, I've got it now. I've got my answer. Right.
- [74:09]
Alon Ben Joseph
But. But cool combo. No.
- [74:11]
Rob Nuts
Cool combo, actually.
- [74:12]
Alon Ben Joseph
Love it. Should we extend it to Scarlet and David?
- [74:16]
Rob Nuts
Let's do that. In a second. I'm going to give you mine, and then I'm going to think about Scout and David as well. I think this is great for me. Tom Hardy, because body type falls into a character, can do accents, similar face shape. He's better looking in the actual face, but he's sort of got the sort of wearish oblong head that I have. And for you, this is a curveball. But imagine him skinhead. Yeah. Imagine him no glasses and bald. Jeff Goldblum.
- [74:45]
Alon Ben Joseph
Interesting.
- [74:46]
Rob Nuts
I honestly, I've never seen it before. I was thinking, oh, who do I know? Classic. I could see it. He looks a bit like you.
- [74:53]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I think he's a fantastic comedian. I think he's a good actor. Interesting. He's a. He's a character.
- [75:01]
Rob Nuts
If we want to expand the comedy in this, we can get Larry David to play your dad. Because you shave Larry David's head. That's pretty good.
- [75:09]
Alon Ben Joseph
Yeah, for sure. And my dad is almost as blunt as. So, yeah, that's funny. So for those that haven't seen Curb youb Enthusiasm, I highly recommend that series. Let's extend to David. David is a bit more difficult for me because we still have not met in person, so For Scarlet, we need. We need a sassy intellectual millennial. So did you have somebody pop into your mind already?
- [75:38]
Rob Nuts
I'm pretty sure Scarlet's Gen Z, mate.
- [75:40]
Alon Ben Joseph
Oh, yeah, of course. You know, you know, I'm. It's so many light years ahead, Gen Z that my kids already. Gen Alpha. Yeah, you're right. Gen Z. Okay. Who do we pick?
- [75:52]
Rob Nuts
Yeah, it's a difficult one. There's something coming in from the edges of my mind. I'm also thinking David's. David should be an easier one because David's a bit more traditionally handsome. Like he's taller. Taller than me, probably about the same size as you, dark hair, pretty square jaw, looks a bit more like your sort of typical Hollywood star. Someone like Carl Urban could play David maybe, you know, and Carl Urban can kind of play anything. He can, he can twist himself. So. Yeah, I don't know. And he's American as well, which was so. Well, French American somehow sort of like helps trying to pick actors. Hmm. Scarlett, let's think Madeleine Climb.
- [76:30]
Alon Ben Joseph
Does that say anything to you, that name?
- [76:33]
Rob Nuts
No, I've never heard of her. I just googled her. She. Yeah, she looks like she could do a Scarlet bit blonde though, and she. I suppose Scarlet's hair changes every now and then. Yeah.
- [76:44]
Alon Ben Joseph
And you know, actors can change their hair color.
- [76:46]
Rob Nuts
Yeah. Yeah, true. We're asking quite a lot of Tom Hardy to look anything like me and Jeff Goldblum for you, to be fair. Yeah.
- [76:51]
Alon Ben Joseph
Stranger Things, Outer Banks. Stranger Things, Glass Onion. She played in Glass Onion.
- [76:56]
Rob Nuts
Did she know? Okay, fine. All right, so do you want to have a go over on a do over on David or. Yeah, David.
- [77:04]
Alon Ben Joseph
David is like this all round Anglo Saxon college boy. That's, that's. We need to find somebody for him. So he could be Brad Pitt maybe.
- [77:16]
Rob Nuts
Yeah. David has got a kind of Brad Pittish jaw, hasn't he? Like his sort of cheeks.
- [77:21]
Alon Ben Joseph
Right, let's give him Bradford, you know, let's give him. He deserves it.
- [77:24]
Rob Nuts
Okay, so you're gonna choose Andy Garcia or Jeff Goldblum to represent you.
- [77:29]
Alon Ben Joseph
Jeff Goldblum.
- [77:30]
Rob Nuts
Okay. I'm gonna stick with my pick for Tom Hardy. I think that Ryan Reynolds is far too, far too pretty. Doesn't get across the northern grit in the quite, quite the right way. David, we're going with Brad Pitt. He's not going to be able to believe this is. He is luck.
- [77:46]
Alon Ben Joseph
Honestly, we should.
- [77:48]
Rob Nuts
We should have given him something a little less incredible, but all right, Brad Pitt for David, old as it makes him. And Madeline Klein for Scarlett. I don't know what she's gonna make of that, but she'll give us her feedback on a future episode, I'm sure. Wow, What a run of questions. What a incredible cast list for TRTS Series 1 on Netflix. If any producers are listening, we are available as executive producers, I suppose, because we already have outlined who we'd like to play us on screen. I think that that would be an interesting dynamic. I think it's quite a, quite a good lineup. What do you think?
- [78:25]
Alon Ben Joseph
Love it.
- [78:26]
Rob Nuts
So this was probably my favorite episode for quite some time. I have been absolutely bowled over by the insight in the questioning and also, you know, the good humor with which those questions were delivered by Lorian. So thank you for your contribution to the mailbag. We absolutely blew up the clock. It's recording now, over an hour and 20 minutes. So sorry if anyone got bored with that, but we certainly weren't recording it and that's how it should be. We will be back soon, very soon, with more interviews from people around the industry. If you have any questions for us or for people in the watchmaking world, then get in touch. As usual, you can do so via our Instagram @therealtime show, via the website www.therealtime.show via our emails either Rob Alon or David Herealtime show. Scarlet's contactable via her Instagram @scarlindheshire. That's S C A R L I N T H E S H I R E We can't wait to be back on the mic and we can't wait to dive back into the mailbag, probably after Geneva watch days has been and gone now. So stay tuned for not just audio content but also our first foray into the visual medium. It's very exciting times for us and we can't wait to have you along for the ride. Please like subscribe, follow and share the real time show. We'll be back soon, but until then, stay safe and keep on ticking.
- [80:00]
Alon Ben Joseph
Sam.