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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:06]
B
Watch fans and welcome back to the real time show, watches and wonders 2026. I'm here obviously with the friendly neighborhood jeweler Alain Ben Joseph and the managing director slash un guy, Mathieu Haviland, to talk again about one of our favorite brands. Everybody knows my immense love for Ulis Nadam. But what we have in front of us today is worthy of everybody's love. It is the new super freak. And it continue the legacy of a freak that's now been running for 25 years in directions unexpected. Mathieu, welcome to the airwaves once again.
- [00:39]
A
Thank you very much.
- [00:41]
B
Let's start with the thing that catches everybody's eye of the freak. The dial or the absence of the dial. Explain the concept of the Freak series to us for anyone that doesn't already know.
- [00:53]
A
So you know, back at the end of the 90s, watchmaking was still very much traditional. Watches were designed assemble in very much the same way for centuries. And you had a few mavericks in the industry, including Ulysse Nana, that wanted to bring an unprecedented level of innovation, progress, differentiation in the watchmaking industry. And Ulysse Nana was one of them. Frick was a code name of the project. And the project was to try to make a watch without a die, without hands and without a crown, and still be able to indicate and tell the time. And after years of development, they managed to do it. And it was finally launched in 2001 in Baselworld. It was a revolution in terms of design, in terms of mechanics and in terms of technology. Because the Frick introduced for the very first time silicium silicon to the watchmaking industry. After an epic race against some of the biggest name of the industry. And it was for quite a few years, one product at a time. We've developed across 25 years, 16 different calibers. We patented 35 innovations. The nickname of the collection is Laboratory on the wrist. And eventually, to celebrate the free 25th, we wanted to create something exceptional, something never been seen before and something that has a meaning. And the whole point of making the most complicated Tamomi watch in the world, because you just have 511 components just to tell the time, hour, minute and second. But it also has for the first time an automatic double tourbillon, never been done before. You also have the smallest mechanical differential and gimbal ever created. Not in any watch, but in any device. And the whole point of doing it is to push the limit of the grinder technology, which is the most important innovation in the space of automatic winding mechanism of the last decades. And that was pioneered by elis Nana in 2017 in a concept watch called Innovision 2. And the whole point of going from a Frick S, which was launched in 2022, which was and still is today, the only automatic double balance wheel timepiece, we wanted to challenge that and to go even further, having two tourbillons and on top of that, for the first time, a second indicator in a Frick.
- [03:20]
B
So considering how much is actually going on inside this case, as you said, in total There are 511 components in the watch. There's 327 components in the movement itself. It's amazing that it runs at all. Power reserve is something that obviously is essential to making something like this work. Take us right back to the very first concepts of the freak who came up with the idea, who developed it, and how did you bring it to a position where it could actually be used as a watch?
- [03:53]
A
I think it was a combination of three, three, four people actually. You had Carrie Foresty, who currently, I think she's a movement director at Aguyere. You know, she won a prize in the late of the 90s among men. And then actually Carol was the very first person that Ralf Schneider entrusted to start working on the, on the free concept. And I think that alone was a revolution, you know, in that very conservative industry, especially at that time. So she had the very first concept, but obviously to go into something in this role. And basically Ludwig is the one who took Carol for us, his concept of having, you know, the time setting with the, with the bezel and went further, having the movement that indicates the time. And he also, not to go too much technical, he also completely inverse the way the mechanism is working, having also, you know, a huge hairspring for, for the power reserve. And, and also you had Rolf Schneider, who was the entrepreneur who, you know, was owning at that time that, you know, gave, you know, full, full blank page on the project. And. And last but not least, Pierre Gigax, who was a talented engineer, he was a chief technical officer and he was to be able to fully make that movement. You know, it was a dual direct escapement, fairly similar to what Rolex in a way Rolex introduced last year. In terms of escapement, we had to use a different kind of material. So we use quite. We tested quite a few, but silicon seemed to be the material for that, you know, dual escapement, natural escapement on the, on the first week in 2001. So it was really, I think, a combination of all those no. 1 competencies and also being ready term of technology. Right. It's in that. It's because we needed cum to make the. The freak work that we were finding materials. But at the same time, purely on the material research, we were spending, you know, you know, in money investing in working on the future materials of the, you know, for the industry. And that happened to coincidate with the time we were working on the freaky.
- [06:25]
C
You've speak spoken about Ludwig. Ludwig. Walk us through the spectacular entrance of the booth here at PAL Expo. It's a big tribute to Ludwig. And for your dear listeners, I personally think the Ludwig by Uli S. Nardner is the most spectacular perpetual calendar because it's less is more. But he is a genius. What did you guys do at the front with that robot?
- [06:56]
A
It's all about how do we tell the freak story, right? That boost is all about storytelling. And I think the really, the, the, the genius. The. If I had really obviously to, you know, to keep only one person behind the freak. It's, it's, it's Ludwig. Ludwig is a mathematician, he's an astronomer, he's a master watchmaker, and he's the genius mind behind the freak. So, celebrating 25th anniversary, we are paying tribute to the genius mind behind the Frick. Hence you don't have any watches in front of the booth except a giant head of Ludwig. And we'd work with a Parisian atelier that makes you know, really, you know, sculptures for, like the Musee Grevin in Paris, for instance. And we gave them the mandate to basically build a very, how to say, lifelike.
- [07:48]
B
Terrifying.
- [07:49]
A
Lifelike. Lifelike, yes. Lifelike future. So we did a 360 degree scan of his face.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then they've been spending hours and hours, you know, basically recreating his head.
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B
And this is something of a callback to the original launch party in 2001. Right. Where masks were worn by Rolf and I think Ludwig as well, or masks of that place.
- [08:08]
A
Yes. And other team members. Because, in fact, Phreak was launched in Baselworld and you have, you know, I don't know if it's relevant today, but at that time, you know, the Basel Carnival was something. And so that was the whole point of basically, you know, launching something extremely serious in terms of product, but doing it in a. In a. In a. In a unconventional way, especially given the name. If you think about it, it was kind of a freak show at that time.
- [08:35]
B
Perfect that these four people involved in bringing the freak concept to life should have their names engraved indelibly in the history of watchmaking. Because Carol first year is occasionally not spoken about enough, I would say, because the Breguet prize that she won was in competition with watchmakers like George Daniels and Derek Pratt. And for anyone who knows the history of watchmaking knows that those are some serious names. So the respect that was given to her invention at the time is memorable, to say the least.
- [09:05]
C
And rightfully so. Taking that that she basically takes haute logierie into the modern era and deserves it. We've been on this pod saying often that the direction you guys are navigating is amazing. Rightfully so. Taking the analogy of the booth, I think you don't belong here anymore in a complement way that you rightfully deserve to be amongst Urwerk and mbf. And we said this before the amazing collab you did with Urwerk. How do you envision this? Do you think you've outgrown what is the oneness and Palexo, if we can even state that. But obviously I'm provoking here.
- [09:58]
A
I really understand where you're coming from. Look, it's a major investment for us in a way, you know, for the few thousand pieces we manufacture every year. It's in theory, we don't need that. And I think at least so far, the question was how do we make the most of it and how do we leverage as much as we can, watches and wonder to express our mission and tell the story we want to tell. And I think the two takeaways of that fair for us. And you know, it includes every details on the booth, even the robots, you know, that that's kind of a modern freak show in a way, you know, that are some of the most advanced humanoid that exists on the planet. All of that is to inspire innovation. That's our core mission. And we do that by advancing the watchmaking industry. That's priority number one. Okay, job done. And then it's about telling the story of the freak. So that's why to do that we have to do it in a, the best way possible and to have most of the booths dedicated to meeting rooms. There is no meeting rooms. I mean there is a small press lab, there is one private lab where, you know, at least we have a room where we can, you know, show some, some very high end new watches to, to find a client. But, but all in all, you know, 95% of the booth is, is public. So. But indeed doing that, it's pretty much right, the opposite of what many are still doing.
- [11:39]
B
Yeah, I think that it's very important that there's that accessibility to the history of the Freak and that there's time, people have time to really enjoy the presentation that's been put on, because it's a perfect walkthrough from the early days right up until now and is still pushing forwards technologically in ways that most brands just couldn't even begin to countenance. And that's what always sets Ulis Nadan apart and always makes it the meeting that I look forward to the most. And I would encourage anybody that's coming to Plexpo on the public days to make this your first stop and give yourself plenty of time to really dive into all of the incredible innovations and developments that the brand has made over the past quarter century. And there was one thing that I saw when Steffi was giving us a tour the other day that blew my mind. As a watchmaker, I'm used to using tools. I'm used to using fine needle tweezers, but I saw a small glass file of what looked like dust. Silicon sand maybe. But when you put it under a microscope, you can see that these are actually finished bearings made out of silicon. And they are almost imperceptible to the naked eye. How on earth do your watchmakers get to a level of manual skill necessary to manipulate components that size? How long does it take?
- [12:56]
A
Look, we, you know, when the Freak was launched in 2001, we were only capable to do it because we were existing for. For 155 years at the time. Right. If you think about the head of the manufacturing, 20 plus years in the company. If you think about the head of laboratory, 20 plus years in the company. The longevity of the people within the company is insanely high. So that is my best answer. It means that we've been accumulating, know how innovations, breakthroughs, you know, ways of working like, you know, sediment.
- [13:45]
B
Yeah.
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A
Yes, yes.
- [13:48]
B
It's very, it's very interesting to me as a watchmaker and a journalist to sort of try and figure out where Ulis Nadan sits in the minds of most watch fans. And I don't think it sits high enough up the pecking order because you compare the brand to MB and F and to Urvoork, both fantastic brands. But if I can bring my bias to the four for once. I try not to do this normally, but I am biased in this sense. From a technical perspective, I believe that what Elise Nadan is doing outstrips both of them. I think Aesthetically, Urwerk and MB&F are leaders and obviously there are great technical achievements in both brands. But the mixture of New materials, new aesthetics.
- [14:29]
A
Why do you think there is so many independent watchmakers that makes the balance wheel visible on the day today? Where do you think is coming brings the inspiration?
- [14:43]
B
I would say the freak, personally, but as I've said many times before, I believe that the freak heralds the beginning of modern watchmaking. And I don't just mean in terms of a product, I don't just mean in terms of technology, but I mean exactly in terms of culture. Because I think this is the dawning of the moment where the era where people start to look at watches as something else. They're not tools anymore, they're expressions of possibility. They are, in my personal estimation, the greatest mixture of art and science and therefore possibly the greatest expression of humanity that a physical object can be. And the freak changed the game for me. It really did. And I can see why other brands call back to it, but it's nowhere close to what the actual product represents.
- [15:28]
C
It's interesting what you just said is Ulise Dardin was on a trajectory with your newly found independence. We often discuss on the pod. There is a cognitive dissonance between what the brands do. But we never see the watches in the wild. And we have always two answers. Either it doesn't resonate with the collectors. And what I always say, there is a shadow world of those people that buy they're not on Instagram. That you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist. The black swan syndrome. So for me, since I've been in London as well, I can confirm that Ulis is on the right track because those collectors that you're talking about, Rob, now, have put Ulis Nardin there. And this is a shout out to our mutual friend ML from London. So we give him a little shout out, he's coming here. And the first stop he's doing is here. And this was pre U. So I, I, I take that as a culmination or maybe a milestone on the, the, the marathon, the, the rally you're driving. And that begs the question, will you still do the beautiful classical and the enamel grand dials that you do in house? Because that's what you also referring at, that does so much in house. And this is a little shout out to the episode that we did with Sabatier, that if you've missed that on the Real Time show, we interviewed him. It's a fantastic episode. What do you do with this duality, which is a beautiful duality within your list down there?
- [17:04]
A
Indeed. I mean, the answer is already, you know some of the masterpieces we've been launching last year. You know, the free cast animal. It combines the most advanced engineering that you have at Ulysse Nana with one of the most ancestors from Metidar, the enamel. We acquired dansee Caron in 2011. Right. We saved Dans Etc from bankruptcy. Dans Etc. Is the oldest independent atelier dedicated to enameling in Switzerland and it's 100% owned by UN and we supply many other brands. And so therefore we do have that today. And last but not least, if you refer also to something maybe a little bit more classic, I think I can have that. I can feel that in your question, we will develop in the future a new contemporary classic case as of 2028,
- [17:55]
C
because that's the strength of Ulysse. I think the other peers that we referred at are a prisoner of their own success, that they hardly can't break out of the contemporaryism or futurism or avant gardism or steampunk or whatever you want to call it. And you guys have that leverage on them, I think.
- [18:18]
B
Yeah. The maintenance of those pillars is one of the things that makes the brand stand out. Macieja, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for once again welcoming us to the most exciting and memorable. If. Even if it is, because it will be the stuff of my nightmares for many years to come. Boov. At watches and wonders 2026. It's. It's always a pleasure and we can't wait to see you again next year.
- [18:38]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. Thank. You.