The Rest Is Classified

Episode 100: Putin's Secret Army: Fighting With Assad In Syria (Ep 3)
Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: David McCloskey & Gordon Corera

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, David McCloskey (ex-CIA analyst and spy novelist) and Gordon Corera (veteran security correspondent) plunge into the secretive world of Russia’s most infamous private military company: Wagner Group. They dissect how Yevgeny Prigozhin — once dubbed “Putin’s chef” — transformed from low-level restaurateur and Kremlin caterer into a warlord, bringing his infamous “musicians” to bear in Ukraine and, most pivotally, Syria. The episode reveals Wagner’s origins, its bloody expansion abroad, its uneasy relationship with Russia’s Ministry of Defense, its marriage of violence with entrepreneurship, and the shadowy intersections of Russian power projection and deniability.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins of Wagner: From Chef to Warlord

[02:52–11:12]

• Transformation of Yevgeny Prigozhin: The hosts compare Prigozhin’s rise to an absurd scenario where celebrity chef Gordon Ramsay becomes a coup-leading warlord:

  "It's kind of like if after running his wonderful restaurants, Gordon Ramsay through contacts at 10 Downing Street...outfit a military company to help the flailing allied effort in Afghanistan." (David McCloskey, 03:05)

• Dmitry Utkin’s Entrance: Prigozhin’s fateful meeting with Dmitry Utkin, former Russian special forces, marked by Nazi iconography and “mean eyes.”

  "Shaved head, mean eyes. He has SS tattoos on his shoulders and neck, supposedly a Nazi eagle on his chest. And he’s into weird paganism, Slavic rituals, racial purity with fascist tendencies." (Gordon Corera, 04:58)

• Birth of ‘Wagner’: Utkin’s call sign “Wagner” — after Hitler’s favorite composer — becomes the group’s ominous name. Fascist influences and mercenary traditions are noted.

2. The Business Case for Mercenaries

[09:04–10:44]

• Private Military Revived: Discussion of how military privatization, from Blackwater in the US to Wagner in Russia, is a return to age-old trends — with Russian flavor:

  "We’re sort of going back to this world of, you know, maybe 400 years ago, where private military companies are a real thing." (David McCloskey, 09:33)

3. Ukraine: Wagner’s Debut as Kremlin’s Deniable Force

[10:44–17:00]

• 2014 Ukraine Crisis: In the wake of pro-Kremlin regime removal and the annexation of Crimea, Wagner plays a role in the so-called ‘hybrid’ conflict in Donbas.
• Growth & Reputation: Early operations in Ukraine establish Wagner’s operational mythos — fierce, brutal, and useful:

  "They down a military transport in June 2014 which kills 49 Ukrainian servicemen. So a big deal. The mythology starts to build…" (Gordon Corera, 14:45)

• Tensions with Russian MOD: Wagner’s independence becomes a sticking point for Russia’s defense establishment.

4. Hybrid Warfare: Media Trolls Meet Mercenaries

[16:58–18:11]

• Cross-Pollination of Disinformation and Violence:

  "You see the kind of merging of Prigozhin’s different things because then Prigozhin’s media trolls will unleash on Bellingcat, but also try and muddy the waters about who was behind MH17." (Gordon Corera, 17:00)

5. Going Global: The Syrian Campaign

[22:13–34:01]

• 2015: Putin Intervenes in Syria: Russia seeks to support Assad and project power without full-scale troop deployments.
• Wagner’s Expansion: By 2016, Wagner has up to 2,500 mercenaries in Syria, heavily equipped by Russian forces:

  "You’ve got T-90 tanks, helicopters...all from the Russian military." (Gordon Corera, 26:55)

• Entrepreneurial Deals in Syria: Prigozhin personally navigates Syrian elite circles to cut security-for-profit deals, securing Wagner's financial base not just through Russian funding but also by claiming a share of gas/oil facility proceeds:

  "If we bring a gas facility back under Syrian control, we get a quarter of the profits." (Gordon Corera, 34:46)

6. The Sledgehammer & Cult of Brutality

[29:53–32:08]

• Wagner’s Infamy: Notorious videos circulate of Wagner mercenaries brutally murdering a Syrian deserter — solidifying the group’s reputation (and recruiting appeal among Russian nationalists).

  "These videos, June 2017...a man being beaten with a sledgehammer, also of a body being set alight, there’s a beheading, ... Part of the kind of brand. And Prigozhin will say, ‘There's no such thing as bad publicity,’ but it's gonna help recruitment." (Gordon Corera, 31:00)

7. Clash with the U.S.: The Battle of Khasham / Deir Ezzor

[36:03–43:27]

• 2018 Incident: Wagner and Syrian allies attack a US/Kurdish outpost at the Conoco gas facility, triggering an overwhelming US military response:

  "At the end, there’s no US casualties...Best guess around 80 [Wagner/Syrian] killed. Some people thought 200, 300. It’s a kind of crazy story." (Gordon Corera, 42:00)

• Russian Denial: The Russian high command flatly denies involvement to US officials, despite intercepted communications in Russian.
• Aftermath: Deepens Prigozhin’s antagonism toward Russia’s Ministry of Defense (MOD), marking a growing divide even as he grows bolder and more independently motivated.

8. Wagner’s Evolving Business Model & Relationship With the Kremlin

[34:01–36:03, 43:27–end]

• From Kremlin Tool to Independent Operator: Wagner continues to serve Russian interests, but Prigozhin’s deals increasingly blend state objectives and private profit — blurring lines of loyalty.
• Prelude to Africa: Syria becomes springboard for further global expansion in "terrible places...where he can expand that business model." (David McCloskey, 44:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Shaved head, mean eyes. He has SS tattoos on his shoulders and neck, supposedly a Nazi eagle on his chest. And he’s into weird paganism, Slavic rituals, racial purity with fascist tendencies.”
  — Gordon Corera on Dmitry Utkin [04:58]
• “We're sort of going back to this world… where private military companies are a real thing.”
  — David McCloskey [09:33]
• “To think he’s the commander on the ground — he’s not really. He’s the guy who can link supply and demand here.”
  — David McCloskey on Prigozhin’s role [13:13]
• “If we bring a gas facility back under Syrian control, we get a quarter of the profits... it’s kind of good business for both sides, isn’t it?”
  — Gordon Corera on Wagner’s Syria deals [34:46]
• “The sledgehammer is gonna become associated as the kind of unofficial logo, brand thing of the Wagner group.”
  — Gordon Corera [32:13]
• “He sees what’s possible and he found the limit.”
  — David McCloskey, after the disastrous Deir Ezzor clash [42:38]

Timestamps by Major Segment

• [02:52–11:12] — Prigozhin & Utkin: Origins and the birth of Wagner
• [11:12–17:00] — Wagner’s role in Ukraine & Kremlin deniability
• [16:58–18:11] — Merging of Prigozhin’s media and security operations (MH17/Bellingcat)
• [22:13–34:01] — Wagner’s campaign in Syria; business model and brutality
• [29:53–32:08] — The “sledgehammer” videos and cult of violence
• [36:03–43:27] — 2018 Deir Ezzor battle: Wagner vs. U.S. forces
• [43:27–end] — Fallout, Prigozhin’s independence, set-up for Wagner's African exploits

Tone & Style

The tone alternates between darkly humorous (with frequent allusions to Gordon Ramsay and Mad Max) and incisively serious when discussing violence and geopolitics. Both hosts bring a mixture of deep expertise, wry skepticism, and vivid storytelling, making the complex world of private warfare and Russian strategy both accessible and chillingly real.

For Next Time...

The episode ends by teasing Wagner’s move into Africa, promising even more unfiltered insights into private armies and Russia’s shadow wars in the next installment.