The Rest Is Classified – Episode 47: "The Leak That Changed The World: Spying on the World (Ep 5)"

Release Date: May 18, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 47 of "The Rest Is Classified," hosts David McCloskey, a former CIA analyst and spy novelist, and Gordon Corera, a veteran security correspondent, delve deep into the ramifications of Edward Snowden's leaks. This episode, titled "The Leak That Changed The World: Spying on the World," explores the intricate web of espionage, intelligence operations, and the subsequent global power dynamics reshaped by one of the most significant leaks in history.

Edward Snowden's Detainment in Moscow

The episode opens with McCloskey recounting Snowden's infamous detainment at Moscow Airport in June 2013. Snowden's intention to transit to Ecuador was thwarted when Russian authorities, particularly the Federal Security Service (FSB), detained him for questioning.

David McCloskey [02:45]: "It doesn't matter because my name's Ed Snowden and I've flown to Moscow after releasing a documentary film about my NSA leaks."

Upon presenting his passport, Snowden found himself swiftly ushered into a meeting with FSB officers, marking the beginning of his prolonged stay in Russia.

The FSB's Approach and Snowden's Response

Corera provides a vivid narration of the interrogation Snowden faced, highlighting the FSB's attempt to recruit him as a double agent.

Gordon Corera [04:28]: "At the center of the table sat an older man in a finer suit than the others... 'Listen, I understand who you are and what this is. Please let me be clear that I have no intention to cooperate with you.'"

Snowden's firm rejection underscored his unwillingness to collaborate, despite his vulnerable position.

Theories on Snowden's Data Security

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the uncertainty surrounding whether Snowden brought any sensitive data into Russia. The hosts ponder the possibility of a "dead man switch," a mechanism that would release information if Snowden were incapacitated.

Gordon Corera [07:56]: "Some people have theorized that he uploaded the material somewhere and hid the key to decrypt it or to use it as a form of protection."

However, both hosts acknowledge that this remains speculative, with no concrete evidence to support such claims.

Impact on US and Global Intelligence Agencies

The episode transitions to assess the damage inflicted by the leaks on intelligence agencies worldwide. The NSA's extensive surveillance programs, often in collaboration with the British GCHQ, faced immense scrutiny and backlash.

David McCloskey [12:46]: "The House Intel Committee report on Snowden... it's a bit of a mystery still. It is what exactly Moscow got access to."

The ambiguity surrounding the extent of compromised data fuels ongoing debates about the true impact of the leaks.

GCHQ and the Tempora Program

Corera delves into the Tempora program, GCHQ's ambitious initiative to tap into global fiber optic cables, enabling the collection of vast amounts of internet data.

Gordon Corera [20:35]: "Mastering the Internet is basically them thinking we need to be able to master Internet traffic in order to keep doing our job."

McCloskey elaborates on the legal complexities surrounding Tempora, revealing that its authorization stems from obscure legislation, specifically Section 94 of the 1984 Telecoms Act.

David McCloskey [24:31]: "The legal basis was secret. We later learned it was Section 94 of the 1984 Telecoms Act."

This secrecy poses significant accountability challenges, as even high-ranking officials remain unaware of the program's precise legal underpinnings.

Surveillance on Foreign Leaders

One of the most explosive revelations discussed is the NSA's surveillance of Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany, dating back to 2002. This breach of trust between allies underscores the pervasive nature of intelligence operations.

Gordon Corera [33:07]: "This was the fun one was after a few months and Snowden had parceled out his information in an interesting way... the NSA had been tapping the cell phone of Angela Merkel."

McCloskey reflects on the ethical dilemmas this presents, especially considering the Five Eyes alliance, which supposedly prevents member countries from spying on each other without overarching justifications.

Ethical and Legal Implications

The hosts engage in a profound discussion about the legality and morality of mass surveillance. While some programs like Tempora operate within the bounds of national laws, the opacity and lack of transparency raise questions about their ethical standing.

Gordon Corera [25:30]: "The issue was more about accountability... they are not in a position to explain this at the time because these programmes are secret."

McCloskey cites Bart Gellman from the Washington Post, emphasizing that sometimes, "a scandal is what's legal," highlighting the distinction between legality and ethicality.

Conclusion and Future Directions

As the episode concludes, McCloskey and Corera acknowledge the enduring legacy of Snowden's leaks. Despite his prolonged stay in Russia, Snowden's revelations continue to influence global intelligence practices and public perceptions of privacy and surveillance.

Gordon Corera [38:38]: "Even though he's in Russia, the stories and the revelations are gonna go on with some very dramatic ones still to come."

The hosts tease future episodes that will explore the UK's governmental responses and the broader geopolitical repercussions of the leaks.

Notable Quotes

• David McCloskey [02:46]: "This, Gordon, is the first of these terrible... Ed Snowden's essentially his entrapment by the Russian security services in Moscow."

• Gordon Corera [04:31]: "I'll read. The center of the table sat an older man... 'Please come with.'"

• David McCloskey [12:12]: "A key or a sample of the documents. Now, I will note, though, that the House Intel Committee report on Snowden... it's a bit of a mystery still."

• Gordon Corera [20:29]: "Everything we do is legal and authorized. I asked, 'Under which law is it authorized and legal?' And there was this silence."

• David McCloskey [27:35]: "Interestingly, Bart Gellman... 'Sometimes a scandal is what's legal.'"

Final Thoughts

Episode 47 of "The Rest Is Classified" provides an in-depth exploration of the multifaceted impact of Edward Snowden's leaks. Through nuanced discussions and expert insights, McCloskey and Corera shed light on the shadowy corridors of global espionage, the ethical quandaries of mass surveillance, and the enduring mysteries surrounding one of the most pivotal moments in modern intelligence history.

For those fascinated by the clandestine world of spies, espionage, and covert operations, this episode offers a comprehensive and engaging analysis that bridges the gap between historical events and their contemporary implications.