The Rest Is Classified

Episode 80: The Man Who Saved The World: Making of a Traitor (Ep 1)
Hosts: David McCloskey & Gordon Corera
Release Date: September 7, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode kicks off a multi-part exploration of the life of Oleg Gordievsky – the celebrated KGB officer who became one of the West's most important spies during the Cold War. Former CIA analyst and spy novelist David McCloskey and security correspondent Gordon Corera delve into Gordievsky's early years, the culture and contradictions of Soviet intelligence, and the internal evolution and psychology that allowed a man raised in the heart of the KGB to betray his country for ideological reasons.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Why Oleg Gordievsky Matters

• Gordievsky is introduced as a Soviet KGB officer who, disillusioned by the "totalitarian world," ultimately spies for MI6.
• The hosts emphasize the exceptional practical impact Gordievsky had amidst a history where most espionage cases made little real-world difference.
  • “Gordievsky is so interesting because it is the one case where you can say this. This is about one man, one spy who made a difference, who had a direct impact not just… on the worlds of kind of counterintelligence and spy versus spy, but also on the kind of political and strategic direction of the Cold War.” — Gordon Corera [01:57]
• The late 70s and early 80s are characterized as a time of peak Cold War tension, with Gordievsky’s intelligence “helping leaders in the West… make better decisions about how to deal with the Soviet Union.” [02:36]

The Roots of Double Life: Gordievsky’s Family & Upbringing

The KGB as Family Business

• Gordievsky was born in Moscow in 1938 to a family steeped in Soviet security; his father and brother were also KGB officers.
  • “The KGB is family to Gordievsky. Poor guy. His father is going to serve in its ranks, his brother as well, as Oleg himself…” — Gordon Corera [07:42]
• The era of Oleg’s childhood was marked by Stalin’s Great Terror; paranoia and secrecy were survival mechanisms:
  • “You have to say the NKVD is always right, because if it’s wrong, then you’re in trouble.” — Gordon Corera [09:21]
• Oleg’s mother’s family, on the other hand, were victims of the regime; this duality sowed early seeds of inner conflict and fostered Oleg’s need to live a double life:
  • “This notion that you have to live a double life comes quite young… That ability to lead a different exterior and interior life seems to come really young to Oleg and quite naturally to him.” — Gordon Corera [11:41]

Early Influences and the Psychology of Defection

• The authoritarian system bred people expert at hiding dissent—ideal raw material for spies or defectors.

  • “The nature of the totalitarian system also breeds people who will be quite good at betraying it because they understand the discipline and the need to kind of have double lives.” — Gordon Corera [14:45]

• As a student, Oleg thrived on intellectual curiosity, learning German, reading Western newspapers, and observing the contrast between East and West.

• His personality as a “long distance cross country runner” is identified as critical to his success as a spy:

  • “The qualities you need to be really good at long distance cross country… are endurance and patience… single-minded… perhaps also to deal with a certain kind of loneliness. And it’s not about being a sprinter, it’s not about showing off. It’s just about a disciplined finishing of the race. And I think that is Oleg.” — Gordon Corera [15:15]

First Brush with the West—Berlin and Denmark

• Oleg’s first extended exposure to the West was in Berlin 1961, arriving on the eve of the Berlin Wall’s construction. He witnessed firsthand the lengths to which the regime would go to keep its citizens captive.

  • “He arrives late on the evening of August 11, 1961… refugees have been heading west by the thousands… barbed wire is going up over the city and the Berlin Wall is being built to stop that flow of people.” — Gordon Corera [18:34]

• Recruited into the KGB, Oleg’s first posting is Denmark, where he supports “illegals” (deep cover agents abroad). His tasks are strange even by espionage standards — e.g., forging Danish identities via church registers.

  • “He has to go find churches where he can either steal the birth registers or bribe the priests to give him access… What a weird thing.” — Gordon Corera [25:35]

• The ratio of actual diplomats to spies in the Copenhagen Soviet Embassy is striking:

  • “20 civilian diplomats, but only six of those are real diplomats… 14 out of the 20 are spies and six are diplomats.” — Gordon Corera [26:54]

Friendships & the Allure of the West

• Oleg forms a genuine bond with fellow KGB man Mikhail Lyubimov (aka “Smiley Mike”), a fellow free-thinker and Anglophile, who once drank whisky with Ian Fleming.

  • “If you took pictures with him, he would have been smiling then…” — David McCloskey [27:35]
  • “He loves everything British. He had Margaret Thatcher mugs up on his shelf… he loves single malt whiskey.” — Gordon Corera [27:40]

• Oleg savors Western freedoms in Denmark, which manifests in curious and socially awkward ways — such as buying gay pornography to show his wife merely to marvel at Danish openness. This is flagged by Danish intelligence and later prompts an attempted (but unsuccessful) male honeytrap.

  • “He goes and buys some gay porn mags and then shows them to his wife.” — Gordon Corera [31:42]
  • “Feels like maybe not the person you would show the gay porn mags to…” — David McCloskey [31:50]

Disillusionment and Seeds of Defection

• Key moment: the crushing of the Prague Spring (1968). Oleg and Lyubimov, watching the tanks roll into Czechoslovakia, are disabused of any hope for reform from within.

  • “A generation of people within the Soviet system… their kind of eyes are opened by this. Some… will keep it to themselves, but some will end up in contact with the West.” — Gordon Corera [36:35]
  • “There’s an interesting parallel there with Russia invading Ukraine in 2022, a bit like the Soviet Union invading Czechoslovakia in 68.” — Gordon Corera [36:35]

• Gordievsky’s alienation becomes active intent. He begins subtly signaling to Western intelligence his openness to collaboration, e.g., making a revealing comment on a tapped phone line (though too subtle for the Danes to act upon immediately).

  • “He calls his wife from a phone that he knows is tapped… and he says, ‘They’ve done it. It’s unbelievable. I just don’t know what to do.’ He believes… this is my attempt very subtly to signal that, you know, I want out.” — Gordon Corera [39:16]

• By 1970, back in Moscow, his name has started to circulate as a “person of interest” in MI6 files thanks to tips from a defected Czechoslovak friend, code-named “Sunbeam.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the enticement of espionage:
  “Sometimes it’s that simple. Right. It seems like it'll be a fun adventure, no matter what you might think about the overall organization or the system around you.”
  — David McCloskey [21:21]

• On the strange moral codes within the KGB:
  “For an organization that commits so much murder. They really have… what to maybe our modern sensibility… would seem to be sort of archaic morals, but fervently held…”
  — David McCloskey [24:18]

• On Western freedoms:
  "At the time, one of the most prominent slogans in Moscow was, capitalism is rotting away. When people returned from countries like Denmark and their friends asked, well, is it rotting? They would answer, yes, but the smell of decay is wonderful."
  — Gordon Corera [30:57]

• On practical espionage:
  “He has to go find churches where he can either steal the birth registers or bribe the priests to give him access to the church registers so that they can insert names for people who will then become Danish but who are really Russian deep cover officers. I mean, what a weird thing.”
  — Gordon Corera [25:35]

• On the psychology of betrayal:
  “It does seem like in Gordievsky’s case that he’s essentially self recruited… The puzzle has been fit together and he’s already made the decision, he doesn’t need a case officer to go and convince him of anything.”
  — David McCloskey [38:55]

Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening reflections & why Gordievsky matters: [00:03–04:44]
• Family background, double lives, and Soviet psychology: [07:42–14:45]
• Student years, exposure to the West, and running as metaphor: [14:45–16:42]
• Posting to Denmark, embassy life, duties, and Lyubimov: [18:34–29:25]
• Scandinavian freedoms, marriage strains, odd behaviors, Danish surveillance: [31:42–34:29]
• Prague Spring, growing disillusionment: [35:54–38:02]
• Attempted contact with the West, back to Moscow, MI6’s interest: [39:16–41:38]

Episode Tone & Style

The tone throughout is conversational, wry, and steeped in dry humor. McCloskey and Corera blend detailed historical context with anecdotes and first-hand experience (including Corera’s own meetings with Gordievsky), making Cold War espionage both accessible and deeply personal.

Next Episode Teaser

The episode concludes with the promise to continue the story—next, the pivotal moment when Gordievsky finally takes the leap from doubter to Western agent, and MI6 moves in.

For listeners craving both political intrigue and a nuanced, inside-out account of Cold War espionage, this series sets the stakes high—reminding us that sometimes, one person on the inside really can shape the fate of nations.