The Rest Is Classified

Episode 83: The Man Who Saved The World: Countdown to Armageddon (Ep 4)

Date: September 16, 2025
Hosts: David McCloskey & Gordon Corera

Episode Overview

This gripping episode delves into Oleg Gordievsky’s pivotal role as a KGB colonel spying for MI6 in London, and how his intelligence helped avert a nuclear crisis between the Soviet Union and the West in the early 1980s. The hosts, David (former CIA) and Gordon (veteran security correspondent), retrace the intense paranoia inside the KGB, the West’s misunderstandings of Soviet fear, the high drama of intelligence-sharing, and the moment Gordievsky’s secret double life began to unravel.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rising Cold War Tensions and Soviet Paranoia (01:25–06:56)

• At the start of the 1980s, Soviet leaders were alarmed by President Reagan’s tough rhetoric and strategic initiatives, such as the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), known as "Star Wars."

  • Quote (David): “The Kremlin reasoned they had the capability to create the Star Wars system… and were most probably preparing for all out nuclear war in a few years time.” (01:25)

• Operation RYAN: The Soviet Union’s largest peacetime intelligence operation, designed to spot signs of a potential Western nuclear first strike.

  • Run jointly by the KGB and GRU, all embassies were told to monitor for attack indicators—some meaningful, some bureaucratic and often farcical (e.g., checking if blood prices rose, counting lights at the Ministry of Defence).

• Soviet Paranoia: Deep mistrust, lack of reliable intelligence from the West, and a tendency to please superiors led to a feedback loop of exaggerated danger signs.

  • Quote (Gordon): “You could have left the light on for the day and triggered World War Three.” (06:29)
  • Quote (David): “Seems ripe for false positives, I would say. And it's quintessential KGB because it's bureaucratic, it's potentially pointless, it's deeply paranoid…” (07:07)

2. Able Archer 83 and the Nuclear Hair Trigger (12:49–15:57)

• In 1983, NATO’s "Able Archer" exercise simulated nuclear escalation. The Soviets, already on edge, mistook it for real attack preparations.

  • Flash telegrams from Moscow ordered KGB officers abroad (including Gordievsky) to watch for pre-attack signals.

• Gordievsky provided critical reporting to MI6 about the extent of Soviet alarm, helping London and Washington realize how close the USSR thought war was.

  • Quote (Gordon): “We didn't understand the extent to which the Soviet leadership didn't understand us.” (15:09)

3. The Value of Human Intelligence (HUMINT) (17:03–18:34)

• While signals intelligence was useful, Gordievsky's insight into Soviet mindsets and reactions was irreplaceable. Human intelligence provided nuance and real-time context.
  • Quote (Gordon): “That's where being able to converse with an agent who is plugged into [the mindset] is priceless. ... That, to me, is what this shows about human spies.” (17:03–18:34)

4. Influence at the Highest Levels: "Mr. Collins," Thatcher, and Reagan (18:34–23:27)

• Gordievsky (“Mr. Collins” to Thatcher) was one of the most valuable intelligence sources, with raw reports delivered directly to Margaret Thatcher and shaping her approach toward the USSR.

  • Quote (Gordon): “Margaret Thatcher's biographer…says, probably no British Prime Minister has ever followed the case of a British agent with as much personal attention as Mrs. Thatcher devoted to Gordievsky.” (19:16)

• Thatcher curtailed aggressive rhetoric, reached out to reformist Soviets, and personally pushed Reagan to consider negotiation, partly due to Gordievsky’s reporting. Gordievsky’s information even reached the U.S. President, described as an "epiphany" for Reagan.

• The close circle of policymakers receiving this intelligence underlines its sensitivity.

  • Quote (David): “I'd have to imagine it's also a very small circle in terms of policymakers who were consuming Gordievsky's raw intelligence, just given how sensitive it would have been.” (18:34)

5. Inter-Agency Rivalry and the CIA’s Envy (23:27–29:00)

• Despite the close US-UK relationship, MI6 did not disclose Gordievsky’s identity to the CIA, citing operational security.

  • Quote (David): “Standard Operating Procedure in both services would be to not share the name of a source. … Your number one priority…is to collect intelligence and to protect the source.” (24:22)

• The CIA nevertheless tried to deduce the source’s identity, with analysts and operators analyzing patterns and postings. Tension between the agencies surfaces, with both hosts humorously riffing on the rivalry.

  • Quote (David): “Hooked on the product, yeah. You do make it sound like a drug deal.” (21:06)

6. Gordievsky’s Double Life and Growing Danger (29:07–33:10)

• The psychological strain of living a double life grows, especially as Gordievsky’s family remains oblivious to his secret.

  • Though he feels the urge to confide in his wife, her connections to the KGB make this unthinkable.
  • Quote (Gordon): “That's the one thing which…makes him worried is the knowledge he's embarked on a path which could be dangerous for him, but also for his wife and his two young daughters.” (29:27)

• MI6 helps Gordievsky maintain his credibility at the embassy by feeding him low-value information ("chicken feed") and arranging contacts.

7. The Gorbachev Visit — Gordievsky as Kingmaker (33:10–39:42)

• Gordievsky, now near the top of the KGB’s London station, briefs Gorbachev with information supplied both by MI6 and his own analysis. This unique position gives MI6 insight into Soviet interests and Gorbachev’s thinking—unprecedented for Western intelligence.

  • Quote (Gordon): “It's wild that…this…political reporting officer for MI6…is basically briefing both the British Prime Minister and the upcoming Soviet top official.” (36:54)

• The successful visit leads Thatcher to lobby Reagan, recognizing Gorbachev as "someone we can do business with." This facilitates the eventual thaw in East-West relations.

  • Quote (Gordon): “Thanks to Gordievsky, Reagan and Thatcher are realizing that Gorbachev offers a different path… going to open up…the possibility of engagement and reform, which is going to bring the Cold War to a manageable end.” (39:22)

8. Disaster Looms: CIA Counterintelligence, Aldrich Ames, and Gordievsky’s Recall (39:42–47:29)

• As Gordievsky is promoted to chief of the KGB London rezidentura, CIA counterintelligence (in particular, Aldrich Ames—a notorious spy for the Soviets) narrows down Gordievsky as the probable source.

• The CIA’s desire to know his identity, mixed with rivalry and (possibly) professional jealousy, leads to operational risk. Ames’ disclosure (or confirmation) is suspected to have led to Gordievsky’s recall to Moscow in May 1985.

  • Quote (Gordon): “The Brits think it's naughty because I talked to someone who was involved in this case and they were fuming about it still years on, and they said it wasn't a game. If we'd wanted to tell them, we would have done.” (42:50)

• Whether Ames directly named Gordievsky in May or June is debated. Regardless, on May 16th, Gordievsky receives his ominous telegram: “recalled to Moscow.”

  • Quote (David): “It's never good news in the KGB, Gordon.” (47:29)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On KGB Paranoia:
  “Blood prices are at record highs.” — David (06:17)

• On Able Archer and the edge of nuclear war:
  “It's more fun to make out the nukes were about to be launched. I don't think that was the case… It reveals something to MI6: how scared the Soviets are about an imminent attack and just how blind the Soviets are and how capable of misreading it.” — Gordon (15:10)

• On Human Sources:
  “Only if you can speak to someone, ...that, to me, is what this shows about human spies.” — Gordon (17:03)

• On Thatcher’s Fascination:
  “Margaret Thatcher's biographer... says, probably no British Prime Minister has ever followed the case of a British agent with as much personal attention as Mrs. Thatcher devoted to Gordievsky.” — Gordon (19:16)

• Agency Rivalry:
  “Hooked on the product, yeah. You do make it sound like a drug deal.” — Gordon (21:09)

• On CIA Jealousy:
  “I could see there being number one. Yeah. Some. Some sense of like, why didn't the Russia House guys in the States... Why haven't you recruited a sort of mid to upper level KGB officer? Right. What's going on?” — David (28:00)

• Family Stress:
  “That's the one thing which…makes him worried is the knowledge he's embarked on a path which could be dangerous for him, but also for his wife and his two young daughters.” — Gordon (29:27)

• The Ultimate Spy Coup:
  “It is wild that…this…political reporting officer for MI6…is basically briefing both the British Prime Minister and the upcoming Soviet top official.” — Gordon (36:54)

• On KGB Suspicion:
  “Understand…they're remarkable British system so well. ... Those briefings were suspiciously good. So it looks like…he might have been too good.” — Gordon (40:14)

• Recalled:
  “May 16th. So it's the day after Ames has had a meeting with his KGB handlers. Gordievsky gets a telegram, and without warning, he's being recalled to Moscow. A sudden summons home.” — Gordon (47:09)

Important Timestamps

• 01:25 – The 1983 climate and Soviet paranoia over SDI
• 03:14 – Introduction to Operation RYAN
• 06:29 – Farcical KGB indicators; lights and blood prices
• 12:49 – Able Archer 83 and escalating danger
• 15:09 – Gordievsky’s insight into the Soviet mindset saves the day
• 18:34 – Gordievsky’s intelligence reaches Thatcher and Reagan
• 21:06 – Agency rivalries and the ‘crack’ of good intelligence
• 24:22 – Why source identity is not shared with CIA
• 29:27 – Gordievsky’s family stress and personal cost
• 33:10 – Gorbachev’s first visit to London; briefings funnel through Gordievsky
• 39:42 – How intelligence passed through Gordievsky helps end Cold War
• 42:10 – CIA’s suspicion and Aldrich Ames’ damaging role
• 47:09 – Gordievsky receives his sinister recall to Moscow

Tone & Style

The episode is rich in dry humor, spy-world banter, and sly institutional critique, with McCloskey and Corera blending firsthand knowledge, historical context, and personal anecdotes. The tone is both erudite and conversational, peppered with knowing asides about the foibles of intelligence agencies and the human cost of espionage.

Conclusion

This episode expertly unpacks how one spy's courage—and a rare window into the adversary's true mind—helped dial down the Cold War's most dangerous moment. It vividly shows how the right intelligence, in the right hands, can shift the course of history, while laying bare the vulnerability, rivalry, and risk inherent in the shadowy world of double agents.

Next episode preview: Gordievsky returns to Moscow under heavy suspicion. Will he survive the KGB’s looming inquisition?