The Rest Is Classified Ep. 99: "Putin's Secret Army: Trump, Wagner And Russia (Ep 2)"

Podcast Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: David McCloskey (former CIA analyst, spy novelist) & Gordon Corera (veteran security correspondent)

Overview

In this episode, McCloskey and Corera delve into the secretive rise of Yevgeny Prigozhin from Putin’s caterer to orchestrator of disinformation campaigns and, eventually, mercenary warlord. They focus on Prigozhin's pivotal role in the creation and operation of the Internet Research Agency (IRA), exploring how this shadowy outfit became infamous for meddling in domestic dissent, the Ukraine conflict, and the 2016 US presidential election. The episode peels back the layers of Russian “political technologists” and the export of information chaos, while highlighting Prigozhin’s entrepreneurial instincts and ambiguous ties to the Kremlin.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Prigozhin’s Transformation: From Caterer to Disinformation Svengali

• Restaurant Roots: Prigozhin began as "Putin's caterer," supplying food to schools and military, but always understood the value of PR and self-promotion.
  • Quote: "As anyone who runs a restaurant will know, PR, public relations, is a big deal in the restaurant world." (Gordon, 04:12)
• Mastering the Dark Arts: Early adoption of social media, influencer tactics, and attacking critics/journalists via smear, intimidation, rumor, even suspected poisoning.
  • Case: Fake event orchestrated to sabotage catering rival (06:00–08:00)
  • Quote: "He puts infiltrators into newspapers to gather dirt... puts his critics under surveillance. So you see how you're merging security work with PR work." (Gordon, 07:15)
• Personal Obsession with Critics: Extreme reactions to journalists who investigate him, including sending funeral wreaths or severed lamb's heads. (07:30)

2. Birth of the Internet Research Agency (IRA)

• Origins: Mysterious 2013 job ad in St. Petersburg signals the start of the IRA, Prigozhin’s “dark PR agency.”
  • Quote: "The missing link between caterer and mercenary warlord is, of course, a supplier of disinformation services." (David, 04:02)
• Nature of the Agency: Industrial-scale “troll factory” with strict quotas (12-hour days, 10+ high-volume posts), 800-900 staff by 2015.
  • Quote: "You're working a 12-hour shift... write at least 10 posts of 750 words across three accounts." (Gordon, 13:45)
• Atmosphere: Employees likened it to Orwell’s "1984"—an industrial assembly line for lies.
  • Quote: "The agency was a place where you have to write that white is black and black is white..." (David citing IRA employee, 15:00)
• Surprising Detail: Despite being the “Kremlin’s chef,” the IRA's office had no cafeteria. (Gordon, 15:28)

3. From Domestic Control to Foreign Influence

• Initial Target: Internal dissent, suppressing protests, especially those linked to Alexei Navalny. Trolls discrediting opposition online.
  • Quote: "The initial targets of all this trolling are close to home... their job is to stop that." (Gordon, 16:08)
• Expansion Abroad: Post-Crimea (2014), tools turned on Ukraine, then Europe, and eventually the US.
  • Quote: "You get this kind of hybrid war... those tools get turned abroad for the first time." (David, 17:37)

4. The United States and the 2016 Election

• Strategic Escalation: By 2014, IRA begins “Translator Project,” targeting US social media platforms. Staff are even sent on a US tour to study the culture.
  • Quote: "They send four staff from the Internet Research Agency out to the United States... basically a kind of intelligence gathering operation." (Gordon, 22:46)
• Is It Espionage? Debate about whether such activity by non-spy agency staff counts as espionage.
  • Quote: "Is it espionage if they are undercover Russian intelligence officers?" (David, 23:40)
• Entrepreneurship and Knowledge Gaps: Prigozhin’s efforts fill info gaps in the Kremlin's understanding of American society—insight that formal intelligence may lack.
  • Quote: "There's huge swaths of the society, the culture... you might not really have great info on and actually think it’s one of the weaknesses of a spy service." (David, 26:30)

5. Election Interference Playbook

• IRA Tactics: Creating fake accounts, purchasing divisive ads, running both sides of cultural wedge issues, and even organizing real-world stunts via unwitting Americans.
  • Quote: "They're pushing both sides, often of an argument. They're just trying to divide." (Gordon, 29:40)
  • Examples: Blacktivist pages, ‘Heart of Texas’, “Matt Skyber” orchestrating a pro-Trump NYC rally, caged Hillary Clinton in Palm Beach (32:10–33:20)
• Legacy of Soviet Techniques: Comparison to KGB’s historical effort to sow division and conspiracy in the US—social media now offers scale and anonymity.
  • Quote: "It's also within the playbook of the KGB... the difference is now they've got a mechanism to do it through social media." (Gordon, 30:00)

6. How Effective Was It?

• Scale versus Impact: 126 million Americans exposed to posts, but little evidence it changed minds or election results.
  • Quote: "My hot take on this is that it has very little impact. Some impact, but very little." (David, 34:13)
  • Much IRA activity is “bureaucratic, self-congratulatory,” more valuable for internal Russian political gain than US effect (35:00)
  • Memorable Analogy: “Self-licking ice cream cone” bureaucracy (David, 34:47)

7. Consequences for Prigozhin

• Public Profile: US government links Prigozhin, IRA, and Concord Catering via indictment (2018); he appears on FBI’s most wanted list with sanctions imposed.
  • Quote: "That is sort of classically Prigozhin... mirroring something he would have done to people above him." (David, 38:28)
  • Anecdote: “Happy Birthday, dear boss” sign outside the White House for Prigozhin, a distinctive troll “greeting.” (Gordon, 37:26)
• Enduring Denials: Prigozhin and Putin consistently deny IRA connections; Putin compares Prigozhin to George Soros, dismissing Western concerns.
  • Memorable Moment: "Putin kind of mocks the west for falling so low as to suspect a restaurateur from Russia of influencing the US election." (Gordon, 41:25)
  • David’s deadpan: “Sure, he may have a prison tattoo... but he’s just a chef. He’s just a chef.”

8. Reflections and Lead-In to Wagner Group

• Rich, Not Oligarch-Rich: By 2016, Prigozhin is worth $110 million, has private jets, yachts, estate, but not at full oligarch level (39:32).
• Lawfare: Prigozhin pioneers using Western legal systems to attack critics and mitigate sanctions.
• Looming Transition: With a mix of PR, disinformation, and wealth, the stage is set for Prigozhin’s jump to mercenary boss of Wagner Group.
  • Quote: "We obviously have the building blocks of someone who is going to become a mercenary leader. Obvious, obviously." (David, 42:08)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Russia’s information environment:
  • "Nothing is true, everything is possible." — Repeated theme, citing Peter Pomerantsev’s book title (08:40, 15:00)
• On the IRA’s essence:
  • "A factory that turned lying, telling truths, into an industrial assembly line." — Gordon, referencing employee (15:28)
• On impact:
  • "It's a self-licking ice cream cone... the proof of impact is just the activity itself." — David (34:47)
• On Prigozhin’s PR escalation:
  • "Promoting these rallies using real Americans... organizing flash mobs, protests remotely..." — Gordon (33:20)
• On Russian state-private lines:
  • "It’s essentially a contract effort… the Prigozhin story, isn’t it?" — Gordon (31:37)
• Putin’s chef as international villain:
  • "How can your election be influenced by this chef?" — Gordon impersonating Putin (41:33)

Key Timestamps

• 02:16 — Introduction of the suspect 2013 job ad in St. Petersburg (IRA origins)
• 06:00–08:00 — Dark arts against catering rival; personalized attacks on critics
• 11:30 — Emergence of "political technologists" and the broader Russian PR/manipulation sphere
• 13:43 — Description of IRA as an industrial-scale troll factory
• 15:00 — Employee’s “1984” description; reality of working at the IRA
• 16:08 — Start of domestic suppression focus (Navalny, corruption)
• 17:37 — Shift to Ukraine, West, the US
• 22:46 — IRA's US reconnaissance trip
• 29:40 — 2016 US election IRA tactics: division, real/virtual operations
• 31:27 — The blend of state and private (contracting in Russian intelligence ops)
• 34:13 — Evaluation of actual IRA election impact
• 37:26 — "Happy Birthday, dear boss" stunt for Prigozhin at White House
• 41:25 — Putin’s snarky defense of Prigozhin as "just a chef"

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a deep, lively exploration of how Yevgeny Prigozhin’s mix of ruthless entrepreneurship and instinct for the Kremlin’s needs allowed him to create a modern-day information warfare machine. The hosts weave together colorful anecdotes, sharp analysis, and the dry wit that characterizes their storytelling—tracing how Russian disinformation metastasized from domestic manipulation to a global weapon, and laying the groundwork for Prigozhin’s next act: mercenary warlord.

Next episode: The transformation to Wagner Group, paramilitary ops in Ukraine, Syria, and beyond.