Bad Band Names, Set List Dramas and Failed Comebacks

Summary

THE REST IS ENTERTAINMENT
Episode: Bad Band Names, Set List Dramas and Failed Comebacks
Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde
Date: July 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this energetic and insight-packed episode, Richard Osman and Marina Hyde answer listener questions about the quirkiest corners of the entertainment industry. They debate festival set list etiquette, dissect bad band names, recall infamous comebacks that flopped, and dive deep into television release strategies in the age of streaming. Equally witty and informed, the hosts pepper their banter with industry anecdotes, pop culture references, and plenty of “behind the curtain” commentary.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Set List Dramas: Audiences vs. Artists

Timestamp: 01:45–07:00

• Listener Question: Is it ever acceptable for a festival artist to play only new material, and should audiences get a say in the set list?
• Becky Hill at Transmit Festival: The hosts discuss Becky Hill’s decision to play only new music (without prior announcement), her reasoning (“I’m not a jukebox”), and the backlash received.
• Artist-Audience Balance:
  • Marina: "Artists generally prefer to advertise what they know they are delivering… They always try to advertise closely." (02:57)
  • Artists taking creative risks at festivals vs. regular gigs—risks are higher at festivals, where not everyone came specifically for them.
• Historical References:
  • Paul McCartney’s awareness that new songs get less crowd response than classics; Bob Dylan and Metallica’s past experiences with audience pushback on new material.
  • Lily Allen’s current tour: performs her new album top-to-tail, advertises it as such, and chooses not to interact with the audience—an “artistic choice” that divides opinion.
• Summary Insight: Artists must balance artistic evolution with audience expectations, especially in multi-artist environments like festivals. Communication and transparency (e.g., labeling shows as “work in progress”) are key.

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2. Bad Band Names & Their Origins

Timestamp: 07:00–14:10

• Listener Question: What are your top examples of band names that don’t fit their music?
• Favorite Oddities:
  • Savage Garden—name sourced from Anne Rice’s Vampire Chronicles, but has no connection to their pop sound.
  • Destiny’s Child—sounds more like a prog band, “a bit Stonehenge.” (09:13)
  • Red Hot Chili Peppers, Primal Scream, 10,000 Maniacs, Death Cab for Cutie—names that evoke something entirely different from their actual genres.
  • Ben Folds Five (when there were three members), Grateful Dead, Oasis, Nirvana—names that conjure wildly mismatched musical expectations.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Richard: "Oasis is a terrible name for a band. They are both names for, like, soft jazz, kind of 1974 kind of lounge bar bands. Oasis, Nirvana." (10:20)
  • Marina: "If you first heard [Red Hot Chili Peppers], I'd be thinking I'm hearing some kind of jazz funk... probably wearing suits." (09:38)
• All-Time Worst? The Beatles.
  • Richard: "The whole thing is absolutely unacceptable in every way. And if they weren't so brilliant, they would be called out on it almost daily." (12:36)
• Historical Roots: Possible connection to “The Crickets”; 60s bands often chose names inspired by insects.
• Summary Insight: A band may transcend a bad or incongruent name through sheer talent and legacy, but names set tricky first impressions.

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3. Streaming Era Release Strategies

Timestamp: 18:03–24:05

• Listener Question: How have streaming platforms changed the scheduling for major series, compared to old ‘TV seasons’?
• Old School Scheduling: Major series used to debut in autumn or January, dictated by advertisers seeking predictable, high-audience slots. Summers were “wastelands” of repeats.
• The Streaming Shift:
  • Platforms now space original releases year-round, dictated by subscriber acquisition and retention, not advertisers.
  • Staggered releases (“tentpole” drops every month/quarter)—e.g., Netflix’s 2025 calendar ranges from Squid Game in June to Bridgerton in January and March.
  • Goal: ensure “every single month has to be attractive” to minimize churn and maximize sign-ups.
• Notable Quote:
  • Marina: "The subscriber strategy basically dictates all of this now." (19:43)
  • Richard: "If you made a TV series and they said they're putting it out in August, you would just be - oh, okay, they hate it." (21:36)
• Terrestrial TV: Still stuck in old patterns—viewership lifts during winter (e.g., instant 400,000 bump after clocks change due to darker evenings).
• Summary Insight: Modern release timing serves platform business needs, not just audience preferences. Streaming’s demand for constant content means cycles are now granular, not seasonal.

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4. Entertainment’s Failed Comebacks

Timestamp: 24:29–27:47

• Listener Question: What are the worst celebrity/comeback failures?
• Serena Williams’ Wimbledon Return: Framed as an anticlimactic end after a “massive build up”—but the hosts are empathetic (“She wanted to show her kids what she’s got”). (27:21)
• E17’s Doomed Reunion:
  • Richard reveals he made a documentary about E17’s attempted comeback paralleling Take That’s success—derailed by an on-tour fistfight between Brian Harvey and Tony Mortimer.
  • Other band members lost out financially; E17 “lacked a statesman... a Clement Attlee figure at the heart.” (26:37)
• Industry Insight: Even talent and past hits can’t guarantee a successful comeback without leadership and unity.
• Notable Quote:
  • Richard: "If they'd managed it, they could be headlining that nostalgia circuit now with their Christmas songs—they could be going forever, but... for various personnel reasons, they were not." (26:45)

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Band Names:
  • "My least favorite band names: Hootie and the Blowfish and Toad the Wet Sprocket. Both of those. Come on, guys." —Richard (11:35)
• On Set Lists:
  • "Every band knows which songs people want to hear... they're lucky to have hits." —Richard (07:00)
• On Scheduling:
  • "You will immediately add 400,000 viewers the next Monday when the clocks go back. The darkness affects us." —Richard (22:03)
• Royal Box Gossip:
  • Greg James’ mum trod on Richard’s foot in the Royal Box at Wimbledon, and “she was very, very good about it.” (25:09)
  • Jamie Cullum: “What a nice guy.” (27:48)

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Timestamps for Core Segments

• Set List Dramas: 01:45–07:00
• Band Names: 07:00–14:10
• TV Release Strategies: 18:03–24:05
• Failed Comebacks: 24:29–27:47

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Conclusion

Richard and Marina’s sharp, playful banter takes listeners behind the scenes of the entertainment world. Whether discussing the perils of unhappy festival crowds, the curious logic of band names, how streamers manipulate viewing habits, or the heartbreak of failed pop comebacks, the episode is fast-paced, packed with stories, and loaded with memorable lines—one for the true pop culture connoisseur.

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Listen for:

• Candid opinions on what artists owe their fans
• Deep cuts about industry logistics
• Hilarious mock introductions for “Oasis, your wedding band”
• Royal Box tidbits and homage to short-lived pop reunions

Next episode tease: World Cup of British Bands—members only, but "we love you just the same" if you’re not.

Transcript

[A]

The rest is entertainment. Is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, flowers, Richard, are a very important part of show business and there is

[B]

a reason we're talking about flowers. As always with Octopus Energy, they do very interesting things with their customers. We will get to what they do with flowers. But yes, it's sort of the currency that runs everything.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, in the Bachelor, it's actually part of the format.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The rose ceremony. So that flower is really earning its money.

[B]

Yeah. Can you imagine the person, by the way, there will be a rose wrangler on that show who has to make sure that the roses are absolutely perfect. That's like. That's a completely full time job.

[A]

Also a full time job doing flowers for Elton John.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

One of the great lines in a court case ever, when one of his managers was accused of ripping him off and they discovered in court that he'd spent £293,000 on flowers in 20 months. QC was like, sorry, how's that possible? He said, I like flowers.

[B]

Now, shall we get onto Octopus Energy? They have a sort of committed team who always look after your account. So if you get an email from them, it's the same people, but also they get to know you so well that sometimes they'll understand if you're going through a hard time. And what they will do is they will send you flowers.

[A]

It's not an apology, it's just because someone was going through something and they. You get your flowers. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

[B]

And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, listeners. Hello, Marina.

[A]

Hi, Richard. How are you?

[B]

I'm very well, thank you. Should we get straight on. Get into it with our first question? We don't muck about. No, that's the thing. Some podcasts, they'll do like 10 minutes of bance this. No, we are absolute straight in.

[A]

Will come later. It will be. It will be integrated into the answer.

[B]

Bance included. Exactly. Our first question is from Niall Donnelly. Thank you, Niall. Niall says Becky Hill got booed off stage at Transmit Festival for choosing to only play her new music and no hits. Absolutely textbook stuff. Is this ever acceptable at a festival? Do you think audiences should get a say in a musician set list? Two. Two different questions there, which I have two different answers to.

[A]

Okay. First of all, Becky Hill did say, I'm not a jukebox. Bear with her, actually, because I think that's quite interesting, what she does say. She said, I wanted to bring a new and exclusive exclusive 30 minute set of brand new music to the festival crowd unannounced. And I thought it'd be a great opportunity to play the new music I've been working so hard on and that I personally love so much. She then said it was interesting, it was amazing to have such a captive audience who want wanted to hear the new stuff too. I don't think they did necessarily, but she said, I said on stage, how difficult is to transition into a new single and new music and new albums and all. This conversation online is exactly what I meant. Okay, well, she's lent into the backlash. I have to say she did make one good point, which is she said that had she been on the festival's billing, she would have done her hits because, you know, her appearance is sort of.

[B]

So she wasn't. Oh, okay.

[A]

I'm actually, yeah. Artists in my experience and comics as well, because they are always aware of this sort of thing normally quite upfront in saying, oh, I'm trying out new material, this is a work in progress. I'm trying out new stuff because they don't want people to think, oh, I'm, you know, turning up for the polish thing. And they always try to advertise quite closely to it.

[B]

Yeah, if you go and see comics often, they will literally be reading from a book and after the. It's fun to watch a work in progress, they go, oh, I'm keeping that one, or that didn't work or what do you think? It's quite a fun thing. And they charge less for work in progress and it's actually quite an interesting thing thing to see. Different for music, I think, because a joke is very immediate.

[A]

I agree. But she wasn't on the bill and so she. Anyway, there are lots of other artists, blah, blah. It's a festival. I do think obviously the counterpoint to that is it depends to what degree you are in the audience service business. And by the way, if you are any kind of artist, you are. Because if the audience doesn't get enough of what they want, for obvious reasons, they will stop showing up. It was interesting. Do you remember when we, when we did our interview with Paul McCartney, he was very funny about this. He said, you know, I do some of my new stuff, but I will say to the crowd, you know, I know how you really feel about this because if I do hey Jude, it's just like a sea of phone lights and if I do something new, it's a black tunnel. And.

[B]

And he's Sir Paul McCartney.

[A]

He's a Paul McCartney. It's historically always happened. Obviously Bob Dylan went electric and people didn't like it. Metallica, they made. They changed direction and people don't like it. Another of the interesting stories that I think is out at the moment, so sort of to do this, like, are you serving the audience? Are you. Whatever. Is that some stuff that came out last week about. Lily Allen is touring West End Girl. Her album, which is sort of about her split from David Harbour. And, you know, it is a sort of perfect narrative album. And she has decided to. I mean, it lasts 45 odd minutes this and it's advertised that way. It says Lily Allen performs West End Girl. Nonetheless, there have been complaints. There's a sort of string trio who are kind of the warm up act because they do some of her hits in classical music form before she comes on. But you're done in an hour.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

I mean, she doesn't.

[B]

She doesn't love that.

[A]

I know, exactly.

[B]

I think that's like the absolute dream.

[A]

I know. And then there's no audience chat and some people are like, oh, my God, you know, you didn't speak to your audience at all. But she sees it. She says, it's my artistic choice not to talk to the audience. She's sort of doing almost as a play.

[B]

I'm just playing the album from note one to note.

[A]

And as we know, that is a story of the breakdown of the marriage and that, you know, and it is a story. And she says, I think it helps with the storytelling not to do that and, you know, to have a fourth wall or whatever it is called. Lily Allen performs West End Girl. It's not called Lily Allen Goes on Tour. Actually that thing of.

[B]

A lot of people don't call their tours Botanica Goes on tour, do they?

[A]

But. But, you know, it doesn't just say Lillian. It does say that very, very clearly. And as I say, that goes back to that thing of. Artists generally prefer to advertise what they know they are delivering. But taking a single album on tour even has become a thing that people do. So in terms of like, is it ever acceptable at a festival? I actually think her rationale for it was fine. There's a load of other stuff you're going to see. She's got to try new material somewhere. It is perhaps a bit of a risk at a festival where people are probably. It's better within. Within a gig in terms of whether audience audiences do get, say, a musician set list long term because they just stopped turning up. So.

[B]

Or they go absolutely crazy at the end of, you know, There's. Every band has got obviously the big hits, but then they've all got album tracks which they play a couple of times at gigs and people go crazy for and they become fan favorites and they become staples in their, in their set list. Every band knows which songs people want

[A]

to hear and it's, it's a. Everyone knows the cliche of don't do the new stuff. Everyone knows all this stuff. Okay. So they. But they have. So I think in general artists are quite clever and careful as to what they do and whether, you know, what they hammock, how their work is like.

[B]

They will hammock a new song.

[A]

Song.

[B]

Yeah, between. If Pulp have got a new song, you know it's going to be just before Common People.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because then it gets a little of the, of the halo of that. Oh, I wasn't aware she wasn't on the actual bill, so I think that is actually fair enough. She's going along, she wants to do something new and something interesting. But yeah, you do. It's, it's, it's really, really tricky. If you are playing a gig for yourself, then 100% do exactly what you want because fans are paid money to go and see you. So they are your fans. If you're at a festival, I think, you know, no, no one's paying 150 quid to come and see you. And so you, you sort of do have to break out the hits. You have to sort of know what steep learning curves therefore. Yeah. I was think Suede I was think are very interesting with this because every day they just release a whole series of albums in the last 10 years which are among their best work. And they have been so clever about how they've introduced those songs into, into their old saying and they still play the old songs. But yeah, you go to a Sway gig now and the songs from the last five years, people go absolutely crazy. But you know, they don't just go out and just play all new songs. They absolutely have worked out how to weave them together. And again, when people have come to see them personally, you can see them at a festival, it's different, but they did a thing where they'll play, you know, whole albums. I think they went through their whole career at the ICA and they would do that, but then they'd come back after an interval and just play every hit as well. You know that it's like that's the, that's the gig. You know, most bands, I think, God, you're lucky to have hits. Yeah, I Mean, God, you're lucky to have hits. And I know it must be frustrating for bands to have to play the same song time and again. Liam Gallagher talking about having to play Wonderwall, and I mean that, really. I could live without singing that every, you know, night of my life for 10 years. But it's, you know, it's the gig. Right. That's why they give you all that money. Okay, a question from Alex Davies. Your item on bad movie names reminded me of one of my obsessions. Bands that have a name that do not fit their music. I always thought Savage Garden wrote decent enough pop songs. Citation needed. But there was nothing savage about their music. What are your top misfiring band names?

[A]

I think. No. Did it come from the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice? Savage Garden. I think that's where that band name came from. There are a load of these, actually, and some of them, the more you think about it, I was trying to think about these, and then I was thinking, yeah, I mean, Destiny's Child. That just sounds like some really crap pseudo prog rock nonsense. It sounds a bit Stonehenge. Yeah.

[B]

Or Final Tale or a romantasy novel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't sound like what it. There's a point where you can just get into thinking about it too hard. Red Hot Chili Peppers. I feel with that, I'm getting some sort of Latin jazz.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They probably wear suits. Yeah, they're definitely not Anthony Cadis, but this top off and hair down to his waist and a load of tattoos.

[B]

It is extraordinary how names become synonymous with the groups and you forget.

[A]

And then you forget how. Like, if you first heard that, I'd be thinking, I'm hearing some kind of jazz funk, maybe. I don't know what I'm hearing. Primal Scream. There's a lot of names that sound metal, but aren't.

[B]

Yes. Primal Scream is a great name for a Swedish metal band.

[A]

10,000 Maniacs.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I mean, Death Cab for Cutie. I mean, what that again? That is.

[B]

There's funny ones like Ben Folds Five, when there were three of them. That's quite good.

[A]

Come on, guys.

[B]

But, yeah, 10,000 maniacs, the grateful Dead,

[A]

though, again, you know, it doesn't sound

[B]

well, then I don't mind. I can sort of see that because it's.

[A]

I'm just saying that it's slightly. You could imagine it was something different.

[B]

Oasis is a terrible name for a band. Well, two names which are very similar.

[A]

Yeah, that is a terrible name for a band.

[B]

They are both names for, like, soft jazz, kind of 1974 kind of lounge bar bands. Oasis, Nirvana.

[A]

Yeah, they could just be that. They could just be serving the lighthouse families.

[B]

I think there was. I think there was a sort of lighthouse family type. I think there was a band in the van. I think maybe a slightly prog, rocky band, but, yeah, you could definitely. Hi, ladies and gentlemen, we're Nirvana. We're going to be entertaining you this evening. Just sit back, relax, enjoy your meal and enjoy some smooth jazz styling. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, hello. We're Oasis. I am John, this is Penny. We are going to be entertaining you this evening. We're going to start with a couple of people you may have heard of. Mr. Elton John and Ms. Kiki D. That's Oasis, right?

[A]

God, you're so right. And it passes away. I mean, sometimes they do it on purpose, I guess, like Alice Cooper. They did that on purpose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they thought this. What if we were. You know, we created the kind of opposite Persona to who we are again, the Killers. I mean, there's a lot that sound metal, but aren't.

[B]

I don't mind the Killers. That comes from a New Order video, doesn't it? The Killers.

[A]

Death Cab For Cutie comes from another song, but nonetheless, it just doesn't feel like.

[B]

I always think the worst. I mean, again, it sort of suits their music. But my least favorite band names, there's a Hootie and the Blowfish and Toad the Wet Sprocket, both of those. Come on, guys, Come on. There was a. A band who were around. When would this have been? The early 2000s, sort of. I think they're in New York, quite punky, and they were genuinely sort of in the Enemy and all these things. And they were called Cerebral Ballsy. I think that's. And they were like a proper, you know, being reviewed, you know, being kind of like selling albums. And that's terrible, but I. I honestly think the worst name in the history of recorded music.

[A]

I think, think, wow, I can't wait for this.

[B]

But I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. But we. But you don't think that's terrible? Yeah, that's better. Oh, that's. But that's. That's in a differently. Just think. Come on, guys. That's. But in terms of a band where you think, okay, I see why that's acceptable. You. You chose that name. It's the Beatles.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Beats. I mean. I mean, as. As is. As a pun, it's terrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even as. Not as a pun, you think, oh, so you called the like you're named after the. The. The insect. The A beetle. But you got the. More than one beetle. But. But you've B E A T. I mean, the whole thing is absolutely unacceptable in every way. And if they weren't so brilliant, we would. They would be called out on it almost daily.

[A]

They really had to transcend their name. And, you know, I think they've done a bloody good job, haven't they?

[B]

But they have, because you never think about it. No, you never get. You're right.

[A]

They're the ones that you just don't think about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Oh, Beatles.

[A]

Either it sounds metal or you just don't think about it, but it's terrible.

[B]

But it doesn't. If they were called the Stag Beetles or the Black Widows or something, but

[A]

just the Beatles, they can't be called the Black Widows. That's metal. That's. That's got the other problem. That's got both problems. Bad name and sounds metal.

[B]

It's only just occurred to me that I wonder if it's in response to the Crickets. Ah, I just thought that then, because I was thinking of other insect fan names, Adam and the Ants.

[A]

So a name from the past before them and rather than the kind of revolution that they.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's so unrevolutionary as a name. It's literally like from the decade before.

[B]

And by the way, the Crickets is a terrible name. I mean, Buddy Holly. I mean, you could call your band anything. Buddy Holly and the Ivies. Buddy Holly in the Cricket. I mean, what are they? Oh, yeah, because it's like a slightly annoying, chirpy noise. Name yourself after something that sounds good. Call yourself Buddy Holly and the Jumbo Jets. That's something with a bit of warmth to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Crickets and then the Beatles heard that and goes, yes, we need to do that, but we also need to put a pun in it as well. Yeah. Come on, guys. Good question.

[A]

Very good question. For a long time on that one. Okay, shall we go to a break?

[B]

Shall we go to a break? Yeah, yeah. This episode is brought to you by the Lloyds. 5K house deposit.

[A]

Lloyds are offering a 5K house deposit, which was last seen in 1996. What are your entertainment memories of the 1990s?

[B]

I feel guilty talking about the 1990s because you look back, and it was. It was such a golden era.

[A]

We'd never had it so good, and we didn't even realize because we were young and we just thought we were entitled to it. All.

[B]

We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah, Brit pop was absolutely in its pomp. Oasis plane to a quarter of a million people. You had Blur, Spice Girls.

[A]

I'm so sorry.

[B]

Spice Girls. Amazing movies at the cinema. Trainspotting. I mean it felt a time of absolute optimism, but at the time you just assumed that was the way that

[A]

a very British type of optim.

[B]

But part of the optimism, of course, is that mortgages were more affordable and that is what Lloyds is dealing with right now.

[A]

Yep. Last seen in 1996, Lloyds are now offering 5K deposit mortgages to first time buyers. Search 5K First Time Buyer 1996 Average

[B]

first time buyer deposits based on ONS data subject to status. Your home may be repossessed if you don't keep up repayments. Conditions apply. This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle woods in high school. Set in 1990, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now. Hi everybody, it's Dominic here from the Rest Is History. I just wanted to let you all know that on our sister podcast, the Book Club, we have just released an episode digging deep into George R.R. martin. Martin's a Game of Thrones, the first book in his Song of Ice and Fire sequence. We go deep into the history behind Game of Thrones. So we go into the wars of the Roses, Hadrian's Wall. We talk about the influence of J.R.R. tolkien and comparisons with the Lord of the Rings. But Tabby, we also talk, don't we, about George R.R. martin's apparent stagnation and whether he's actually ever going to finish the books.

[A]

We investigate why it is that he has battled to finish them at all and whether he will ever be able to. But if you want to hear lots more about the history behind some of the greatest novels of all time, fear not. Coming up on the book club, we have the Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi delampertusa, which is all about Italian unification. We talk about Circe, where we delve into a particular part of the Odyssey. And then after that we are doing the 39 steps, which, Dominic, you chose and you love.

[B]

Please join us at the book club. It's loads of fun and you will never find a better way to spend your life.

[A]

Bye bye, bye.

[B]

Welcome back everybody. Did you see the sad death of one of our bonus episode stars last week? Victor Willis.

[A]

Ah, Village People. Relevant to our interests.

[B]

Relevant to our interest. If you haven't heard our Village People special series which is just for members. It was really, really interesting.

[A]

It's so interesting.

[B]

It's like Mental and Victor Willis who, God rest his soul, was right at the heart of that and made some very, very interesting decisions. Yeah. In his career. A lot of the reason that the, the Vintage People stories is, is quite so interesting is because of Victor Willis. Yeah. So if you do want to become a member, you are very welcome. We'd love to have you. It's at thereses entertainment.com you can sign up there. But yeah, I would, I would point in the, in the direction of that, that three Part People. I think it is a three part. I mean it's got a lot to say. You wouldn't think there's three parts on the Vintage People.

[A]

But about that famously straight band. Yes. Invictus appreciation of it all, believe you

[B]

me, it could have been a five parter. Tim Maynard has a question. How much have streaming platforms changed when major series are released? When I was younger. When I was younger. How can you be younger and still have streaming? Oh man, when I was younger, there's three channels, okay. That's the only question I want to hear. Tim says when I was younger, series were often released over the winter. Now it seems shows are released more evenly through the year. Is this due to viewing habits changing?

[A]

Maybe you're right. And then maybe he's talking about the time which was before streaming, when it was very, very different. But you are definitely right that streaming originals debut throughout the year. In the old days, you are right. You may be talking about it was all to do with advertising, buying and the old days, the networks cared most about advertiser money. So they wanted to have big audiences at the times that they could predict. So for September and October, as you say, the autumn for big drama and comedy series, things they spent a lot

[B]

of money on and entertainment and.

[A]

Yeah, but you had these things annually, like clockwork, you know, now you've got these waits between seasons, all sorts of things. You know, you had these huge competitions like who had won Thursday night, what you schedule things against. You know, it was, it all mattered. And it mattered because of advertising. And summer, particularly in the US used to be a complete repeat wasteland anyway, as you say, everything has changed. There are some things that they still do for awards reasons because there is a sort of recency bias when they're looking for awards things. But. So it's not that release dates have become irrelevant. It is just that they are now used for different things. Primarily, the platforms want subscribers. Well, they want four things. They want to acquire new ones, they want to retain the ones they have. They want to win awards, and they want to avoid competition. And that is quite important when you think of people sort of the churn of subscriptions, where people think, I'll sign up for this show, but not. So they premiere new seasons of shows when they want big signups. And the subscriber strategy basically dictates all of this now. So you might put it on at a time of slow subscriber growth. And all those things that I used to say, like, summer's just not a wasteland anymore. Summer's become, obviously, summer's very big as well, with reality and things like that. There are certain shows that feel more Summer, for whatever reason, and certain kind of expensive dramas that feel more January, for whatever reason. But you might also do it just before you're going to do a price increase. But they. They really worry about churn. I actually was trying to think back as to how some will have to go with Netflix, because obviously they're the sort of global market leader if you think of Netflix over the last year. So June 2025, they had squid games, season three, August, Wednesday, season two, part one again, these staggered drops are now a big part of it, as you can see. September, they had Wednesday Part 2 again, staggered release. October, they had Love Is Blind Selling, Sunset, and Nobody Wants this too. November and December, all those Stranger Things finale season drops, which were enormous and everything got out the way for that. Basically, January, you've got Bridgerton, the Harlan Coburn, the things that you just always are going to be your January bankers. February, you've got a second Bridgerton drop. March, you've got your big franchise series, and you've got April, you might have returning comedy because you might be thinking about Emily's and things like that. So there's. If you look at it, there is a reason for all of it. Every single, not just every quarter needs to be attractive to subscribers, but every month needs to be attractive. And these tentpole releases have got to keep you there all the way through. So you think, well, I won't cancel because hang on a second. And this staggered release thing is becoming bigger and bigger, as we say, the thing they disrupted, they have become.

[B]

But, yes, but it's fascinating because as you say in the olden days of tv, if you made A TV series. And they said they're putting out in August, you would just be all right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They, they.

[A]

You hate it.

[B]

Hate it so much that they're willing to just burn it off. Yeah. And if you do a series and they say, we're going to, we're going to put it in the third week of September, you'd be like, yes, that's great. Or we're going to put it in January. Those, those are the, those were the two times where you think, oh, you, you love this series. I'm in the case. You suffered. Have to go in March. I mean, that's not a problem.

[A]

We still feel that first. Those. That first week of January is now the biggest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Typing the schedule of the year.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Just comes out, as you say, Harlan Coburn comes out.

[A]

Harlan Coburn. Yeah, exactly. Creators, all the stuff. ITV had massive things.

[B]

But my God, you know, January, August, you know, if you, you can look at the BBC schedules now, and it's all repeats and it has been for many, many, many years, by the way. You know, you tend to. Because fewer people watch television during the summer. It's one of the statistical things where people go, yeah, but if they put good shows on, then few people wouldn't watch. No, no, absolutely.

[A]

Reality. You can get them in the summer.

[B]

You can say, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you, you can't. You cannot. You know, it is light longer. Some, you know, people are away. It is. You will just get fewer people watching. I, I always think, I always think the most instructive thing to know is if you've got something like House of Games, which is on every day and during the summer, Michael Sheen's House of Games, Michael Sheen's Richard Osmond House of Games, it's on every day. When the clocks go back in the winter, you will immediately add 400,000 viewers. The next Monday, you'll have 400,000 more viewers than you had the year. You just will. Because the people are. We're creatures of habit and the darkness affects us. And, you know, it is absolutely.

[A]

I'm just imagining a caveman House of Games now on the wall, you know, but, yeah, anyway, carry on.

[B]

Really good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, so it's. It is September, October, you will. In terms of terrestrial tv, you will always be getting more viewers and in the summer you will get fewer viewers. It's like, you remember when. Just again, God, this is going back when. When they do, like, replacements for the Saturday morning TV show. So instead of Swap Shop or Saturday Store going live, it'll be like the summer replacement and everyone be like oh God. But because people just wouldn't watch being a people people. You get. TV companies would get the overnights all the time. They would just see that viewing would drop off a cliff.

[A]

But you can't do that if you're a streamer. So they've got to find ways every single month has to be attractive. You can never quite cut the cord.

[B]

Yeah, exactly that.

[A]

That's what cold cutting is. Okay, wrong analogy. You could ever. Can never just quite, you know, be

[B]

part of the churn and yes, rereading Tim Maynard's question, you're absolutely right. He's talking about how much of streaming platforms change when major series are released. Because in the old days he's talking about terrestrial tv. I thought Tim doesn't sound like the name of someone in his late teens. I'm not sure there are late teen Tims out there but Tim sounds a solidly kind of.

[A]

He's got a sense of history.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A question relevant to your interest from Hannah Spires, Richard, who says I watched Serena Williams comeback match at Wimbledon and felt suitably underwhelmed ed Such a massive build up for a really anticlimactic end. I know you've talked before about best ever comebacks but what about worst?

[B]

I feel for Serena. I thought she did great and I

[A]

thought you were there.

[B]

Right, I was there, yeah. Watching it. Richard was in the Royal books with Greg James. With Greg James who like mere days later is at Taylor Swift's wedding.

[A]

Yeah. On the downline.

[B]

Yeah. We talked about a lot. We did not talk about Taylor Swift's wedding. I will say that his mum trot on my foot and she was very, very good about it.

[A]

I thought you were too.

[B]

And she was very. Well, you know what my. I mean you can tread on my feet all day long. I'm not going to feel it. Okay. The end of my foot is so far away from that. I mean it's. She was absolutely delightful. I have to say it again. She said nothing about Taylor Swift either. Perhaps she didn't know. Perhaps it was a surprise to her. Listen, we will find out.

[A]

Can I just inch you back towards Serena Williams?

[B]

Serena Williams, Yes. So worst ever. Well, I'm going to give a very specific example of it. Which is. Which is we were making a documentary about E17 after take that had their unbelievable comeback. E17. We'll have an unbelievable comeback too because they had the songs. Yeah, did have the songs. So we were making this documentary about them. Just following them around. Just Relaunching themselves, starting to do gigs. And halfway through the documentary, Brian Harvey and Tony Mortimer had a fist fight and the documentary ended and their comeback ended. And so nobody made any money. And the two I really felt for were Terry and John, who. The other two members of E17, who. You watch some of the Russian. We did actually put the show out in the NBA. You watch those two boys who didn't have an awful lot of money and were so lovely and they just think, oh, great, Brian and Tony have messed this up for us. So, you know, take that as a.

[A]

Can't believe you can coax them back into sort of just. Just, you know.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

On the road, as it were.

[B]

Well, I don't. I don't think they've got the Gary Barlow figure who would just drive things through like a. Like a. The Barlow McCartney type figure.

[A]

Statesman.

[B]

Yeah, the statesman.

[A]

It lacked a statesman, didn't it?

[B]

E70, I think slightly. They. They. They lacked a Clement Attlee figure at the heart of E17.

[A]

Bismarckian intelligence. Yeah.

[B]

So. But if you think about. I mean, that could have been. That could have been huge. Right? And they could still be going now, you know that a hundred. You know, they could absolutely be on that nostalgia circuit and headlining on that nostalgia circuit. Like a huge amount of big hit songs, a huge amount of proper bangers, huge Christmas song. I mean, they could be going forever and ever and ever. But yeah, they were. For various personnel reasons, they were not. That seems a shame to me. So that's my worst ever.

[A]

I can't believe they can't get it together now. Now they see the circuit.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, they're not out there.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know, by the way, I thought it was lovely. Serena would have tried to go, you know, she was. Her kids are there. She just wanted to, you know, she wanted to show them what she got.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's fine.

[B]

She. 120 mile an hour serve.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, you're 44.

[A]

That's pretty good.

[B]

Yeah, but yeah, there it is. But yeah, I mean, the big story there was Greg James not telling any of us that he was going to Taylor Swift's wedding. Another big story. I tell you who's lovely. Jamie Cullum.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, my God, What a nice guy. Anyway, that's absolutely by the by because no one asked.

[A]

Wow. That is all the goss you can hear from the royal box.

[B]

And he was there with his bass, who was also absolutely delightful. Very nice to hear this, fans of the pod.

[A]

Hi, guys. Yeah, okay. Well, I think that wraps us up for today.

[B]

Yeah, I think so. With that E17 bombshell.

[A]

Yeah, with that bombshell, we will be back on Tuesday with another episode. And by the way, also now out your World cup of British Bands.

[B]

Yes, I know some people have heard it already and it is. And to find it interesting, they have found it intriguing. I would say it's for members only. As always, you do not have to be a member. We love you just the same. But if you do want to be one, that'[e-mail] but otherwise, we'll see you next Tuesday.

[A]

See you next Tuesday.