Bible Study With Russell Brand

Summary

The Rest Is Entertainment Episode: Bible Study With Russell Brand
Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde
Date: April 27, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Richard Osman and Marina Hyde delve into timely topics at the intersection of pop culture, celebrity, and media. The main focus is Russell Brand's controversial book tour and his cultural reinvention, examining the shifting landscape of shamelessness, media economics, and the strange alliances forming in entertainment. The discussion widens to celebrate the quiet resurgence of Channel 5’s British drama and concludes with a sharp appraisal of the changing face of the Met Gala, led by Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos, as it morphs under the new economic and celebrity paradigms.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Russell Brand’s Book Tour & Reinvention (02:33–25:28)

• Russell Brand’s New Persona:

  • Brand’s transition from “standard vibes-based lefty” to a “MAGA faithful person in America” (04:13).
  • His claimed spiritual journey: once Buddhist, later endorsing Catholic apps, now writing How To Become a Christian in Seven Days, published by Tucker Carlson Press.
  • The undercurrent of ongoing legal troubles: Marina reminds listeners Brand has been charged and faces trial, and discussion will not touch on the allegations (03:50–04:11).

• Memetic Meltdown: The Piers Morgan Interview

  • Notable moment where Brand spends nearly 2 minutes unable to find an Isaiah verse in his courtroom Bible on Morgan’s YouTube channel (06:48).
  • Marina describes it as “already meme of the year...the most memeable thing you can possibly have done. This clip is...extraordinary.” (08:06–08:43)
  • Richard: “It was the best bit of TV Piers has ever done, but it was a very smart bit of presenting.” (07:56–08:06)

• Comedic Timing and Self-Parody:

  • Richard questions Brand’s comedic roots, saying “I would argue he was never really a comedian...really a TV presenter.” (09:24)
  • Marina muses on the shift from a culture of shame to shamelessness, referencing John Ronson's So You've Been Publicly Shamed: “I’d love him to go back now and talk about what the lack of shame is doing to the culture...” (09:47).

• Tucker Carlson Press and Skyhorse Publishing:

  • Overview of controversial and conspiracist-affiliated books published alongside Brand's, including Rudy Giuliani’s, Steve Bannon’s, and Peter Navarro’s works (11:12–13:42).
  • Notable quote: Richard: “He has Tucker Carlson Press, which he says is to publish books that nobody else will publish...he means controversial books by people awaiting trial.” (11:12)

• Brand’s Baptism & Religious Performance:

  • Colourful details of Brand’s Thames baptism with Bear Grylls (15:51–17:13).
  • Marina jokes: “So Thames water no longer responsible for the biggest piece of shit in that river.” (16:13)
  • Discussion on skepticism and the role of high-profile conversions in Christian public life (17:57–18:24).

• Brand’s Revenue Streams:

  • Shift to American conservative circuits, speaking fees, livestreams, paid subscriptions (notably Rumble), and implication of huge financial rewards for being “anti-woke” (19:25–22:27).
  • Marina: “That’s $400 or $500,000 a month...can’t tell you that he is struggling desperately.” (21:48)

• Catherine Ryan’s Roast Battle Experience:

  • Ryan was prohibited from insulting Brand on air, which hints at contradiction in formats supposedly built on brutal candor (22:27).

• Will the Book Sell?

  • Richard: “Fans of Jesus, fans of spending your money on false prophets...That is an enormous fan base. That’s bigger than the Swifties.” (23:35–24:03)
  • Ultimately, the hype is less about the book, more about keeping Brand's platform alive and feeding his subscription-driven revenue (24:14–24:58).

---

2. Channel 5 Drama: Quiet British Success (28:29–39:16)

• The Channel 5 Turnaround:

  • Richard highlights how the broadcaster filled the gap left by the shuttered “middle” of UK drama, delivering popular, cost-effective scripted content (28:32–30:19).
  • Speaks with executive Seb Cardwell about their “green light quickly, or we’ll say no quickly” commissioning model (32:44–33:05).

• Economics and Production Model:

  • Channel 5 works with a tight trusted circle of suppliers, minimizes development lag, and films abroad to keep costs far lower than industry norm (£350,000/hr vs. £1 million+) (33:05–34:47).
  • Push for UK government to lower the production tax relief threshold to support more homegrown drama (34:47).

• Audience Insights:

  • Significant rejuvenation of audience demographics on streaming: average age drops from 64 on linear, to 54 on C5 streaming, and to 34 when on Netflix (35:21).
  • “34 is a very interesting number if you’re interested in the health of British TV and the future of British TV and British drama.” (35:21)

• Play For Today Revival:

  • Channel 5 has revived one-off plays, specifically offering opportunity to new talent from lower-income backgrounds (38:26–39:16).
  • “Class is the hardest thing. People always say...the hardest one to do.” (39:10)

---

3. The Met Gala, Lauren Sanchez & The End of the Gatekeeper Era (39:16–49:16)

• Gatekeeping Erodes:

  • Met Gala now co-chaired/sponsored by Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos—described as an “absolute defeat for Anna Wintour and everything she stood for.” (40:06–40:48)
  • Anna Wintour’s transition from cultural priestess (“nuclear Wintour”) to someone “clinging on...actions of a desperado.” (43:00–43:18)

• Tech Billionaire Culture Infiltrates Fashion:

  • Rise of sponsorship by Meta, Amazon, OpenAI—a shift from tastemakers to check-writers. Marina: “All the power that used to be in magazines has now completely flowed away to the tech platforms.” (45:16–46:19)
  • The former exclusivity of the fashion elite is now subject to purchase by those with deep enough pockets, notably from Silicon Valley. (46:49)

• The New Celebrity Economy:

  • Time, taste, and access are now determined by what can go viral, not traditional notions of style or cultural currency.
  • Lauren Sanchez is described as “a sort of lack of tastemaker,” emblematic of the new era in which “the least stylish people in the world, really, can buy them [institutions].” (44:45, 49:16)

• Pathos of Modern Celebrity:

  • Marina’s anecdote from the Devil Wears Prada 2 premiere: today’s influencers are compared to “hundreds of beautiful butterflies, but sort of in a net. But it’s like in a horrid way.” (48:34)
  • The Met Gala, once about aesthetics and gatekeeping, is now a transactional, viral event (49:16).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Russell Brand’s Piers Morgan Interview:
  “It is already meme of the year...the most memeable thing you can possibly have done.”
  — Marina Hyde, (08:06)

• On the Culture of Shamelessness:
  “If you have the shamelessness attribute, you can just carry on making the money.”
  — Marina Hyde, (24:58)

• Comparing Jesus Fans to Swifties:
  “That is an enormous fan base. That’s bigger than the Swifties.”
  — Richard Osman, (24:03)

• Bear Grylls Baptizing Russell Brand:
  “So Thames water no longer responsible for the biggest piece of shit in that river.”
  — Marina Hyde, (16:13)

• On Channel 5’s Drama Innovation:
  “Not everything has to be Succession...most people want a good story well told.”
  — Richard Osman, (36:10)

• On the Met Gala’s Changing Identity:
  “All the power that used to be in magazines has now completely flowed away to the tech platforms, completely.”
  — Marina Hyde, (46:19)

• On Modern Influencer Culture:
  "Hundreds of beautiful butterflies, but sort of in a net. But it’s like in a bit of a horrid way."
  — Marina Hyde, (48:34)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Russell Brand Book Tour & Memes: 02:33–12:00
• Publishing Industry & Tucker Carlson Press: 11:07–14:04
• Brand’s Baptism & Christian Conversion: 15:51–18:24
• Revenue Models & Streaming: 19:25–22:27
• Roast Battle/Catherine Ryan on Brand: 22:27–23:07
• Will The Book Sell? 23:35–25:10
• Channel 5 Drama Resurgence: 28:29–39:16
• Met Gala and the End of Gatekeeping: 40:06–49:16

---

Tone & Style

The discussion is whip-smart, slyly irreverent, and peppered with biting asides and industry-insider clarity, staying true to Hyde and Osman’s signature balance of skepticism and affection for the entertainment world.

---

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a vivid tour through the media circus—charting how the ridiculous, the earnest, and the opportunistic entwine in celebrity culture, publishing, and television. It candidly illustrates how old rules of taste and shame are upended by new media logic, monetary incentives, and a viral, subscription-fed economy. The hosts’ personal anecdotes, quick pivots, and sharp cultural references make the critique both informative and unmistakably entertaining.

Transcript

[Marina Hyde]

The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Admin tends to require a little bit of encouragement. So submitting your meter reading now earns you a spin and the prospect of being quietly rewarded for it.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, you can. You spin, you can win octopoints, which you can spend in the Shoptopus. The Shoptopus, I mean, fair play.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, whoever refuses a wheel and the opportunity to get something for nothing, well,

[Richard Osman]

it's actually one of the mainstays of game shows, Wheels, because it has a randomness to it. And I've spent like weeks and weeks sitting, just working out the wheel, just going, okay, that's an extra thousand. That'd be 2000. Then you work out how many bad squares there are. By the way, there's no bad squares on the Octopus one.

[Marina Hyde]

But it's a mesmerizing thing watching it.

[Richard Osman]

You want to keep doing it.

[Marina Hyde]

They slow it down slightly. And then when you watch the contestants, like, leaning in like it's going to make a difference.

[Richard Osman]

Like lots of things with Octopus Energy, they're very good at gamifying lots of the sort of just normal stuff that you have to do with your energy provider and getting a free spin and winning octopoints. It's a very good example of that.

[Marina Hyde]

You submit your meter reading, you get a spin and a chance at octopoints for money off your bill or to spend in the most aptly named Shoptopus.

[Firestone Advertiser]

Your vehicle doesn't just get you from here to there. It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most. It's how you show up for your family, your community and everyone else that depends on you. That's why for 125 years, Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind. To deliver products that are as reliable as you are. Firestone always dependable since 1900,

[Ollie Sleep Advertiser]

good sleep is everything. That's why Ollie's science bag support is made with a blend of melatonin and L theanine for both kiddos and grownups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help your racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie Sleep solutions for the whole [e-mail] that's O L-L-Y.com.

[Marina Hyde]

Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment with me, Marina

[Richard Osman]

Hyde, and me, Richard Osman. Hello, listeners. Hello, Marina.

[Marina Hyde]

Hello, Richard. How are you?

[Richard Osman]

I'm all right. What lovely weather we've been having.

[Marina Hyde]

We have. It's actually worth discussing. It's been so fantastic.

[Richard Osman]

Although if we have listeners around the world, perhaps in your territory, you haven't had nice weather.

[Marina Hyde]

God, I love how global you are.

[Richard Osman]

You've got to be so careful. You have to individualize everything.

[Marina Hyde]

Speaking of being careful, this week we're

[Richard Osman]

gonna have to be very careful.

[Marina Hyde]

We're going to be discussing Russell Brand's book tour. How is it going and how's it really going? What else are we going to talk about?

[Richard Osman]

We are going to talk about a British television success story. I'm gonna talk about Channel 5. They're called 5, really, but if you say 5, people think you mean the boy band, so it gets confusing. So I'll call them Channel 5 for now. But their drama, which anyone who watches 5 will know.

[Seb Cardwell]

They've had three or four years of

[Richard Osman]

absolute banger after banger. So we're gonna talk about how and why they've managed to achieve that.

[Marina Hyde]

And we're also going to talk about the Met Gala, which this year is sponsored by Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos, friends of the podcast, Friends of the pod. And we're gonna talk about how it, in my view, represents a complete defeat for every single thing Anna Wintour, the legendary editor of Vogue, ever stood for.

[Richard Osman]

Talking about complete defeats of everything we've ever stood for. Shall we talk about Russell Brand's book?

[Marina Hyde]

Russell Brand has a new book out which is called how to Become a Christian in Seven Days. The answer's not what you think it is. The subtitle is may take 50 years of sin and Fuck ups to get started.

[Richard Osman]

Language.

[Marina Hyde]

Language indeed. That's on the. Actually on the COVID but with an asterisk. We should say before we go on that Russell Brand in the UK has been charged and faces trial in October on charges of rape and sexual assault made against him by six women. He denies all of those charges. We can't talk about that. But we can talk about the book tour he is currently on.

[Richard Osman]

We can talk about the things that he's been talking about.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. And the journey that slightly got us here, because Russell Brown would like us to think that he has been on a journey, firstly of faith, inevitably. He was once a Buddhist, then I think he sort of moved. There was a point relatively recently where he was endorsing a Roman Catholic prayer app called Hallow. The other journey I suppose he's been on is from being what I would describe, I guess as a sort of standard vibes based lefty towards being a sort of MAGA faithful person in America. He now lives in America still vibes based still vibes based. Yeah. You'll remember that in. Back in 2015, he was regarded as some sort of, you know, electoral profit in some way. And as though his, his. He had some kind of swing vote.

[Richard Osman]

He'd be on Newsnight, Ed Miliband would talk to him.

[Marina Hyde]

Ed Miliband went to his flat in the 2015, during the 2015 election campaign to be interviewed by. He had a sort of news show at the time that was called the Trues. Bit like the news, but not.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, that's clever.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, I remember him. One of the questions he said to. Sorry, this is a bit of sidebar, but it was just so unbelievably moronic that I have to remind, remind everyone what this electoral profit was. He said, since suffrage, since the right to vote, I mean, what actually has meaningfully occurred, thereby forcing Ed Miliband, who at that stage, I mean, if so many people thought was going to win. And for me this was. The steel was sealed when you're having to explain the creation of, I don't know, the nhs, workers rights, women's rights, gay rights, anyway. But he was sort of designated at that point the kind of community leader of people who were disinterested in politics but might with the right profit, be kind of pushed forward and voted.

[Richard Osman]

And I haven't followed the story. Was he the right prophet?

[Marina Hyde]

I have to say no. There was a constituency of people who didn't particularly vote and were not particularly interested in the cut and thrust of daily two party politics. And they did. A lot of those people did come out in 2016, the next year and they did cast a vote in the Brexit referendum. So, no, he wasn't. He didn't make any. The blindest bit of difference whatsoever to that election result, but I mean, to his bank balance. To his bank balance, yes, I'm sure. And at that. And he developed a career of lots of live shows and various books and there was a sort of move into self help as well, I would say. Anyway, I think the stand, the keystone really of this book tour so far has been the appearance on Piers Morgan's YouTube channel.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, my God. It is. If you've not seen it, it is absolutely mind blowing. Spellbinding and mind blowing.

[Marina Hyde]

That's.

[Richard Osman]

That's two things you can have on the front cover of the book.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Piers Morgan is talking to Russell Brand about taking a Bible into the courtroom and talking about various.

[Marina Hyde]

When he was charged.

[Richard Osman]

When he was charged, yeah. And on his first appearance and talking about various Bible verses that. That helped him through that terrible ordeal. And Russell Brand says, oh, yes, and there's a wonderful verse from Isaiah that was very helpful to me. So Piers Morgan goes, oh, well, by all means, read it out. There is. Then I think it's almost two and a half minutes of Russell Brand looking through his Bible, the very Bible that he took into court, trying to find this verse from Isaiah.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, it's not that one. No, it's not.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, it's. But that's a good one. Yeah, it's. Oh, in the gallery, they'll be, oh, I bet they're enjoying this. And Piers Morgan. Piers should have learned from this a very long time ago. Just kept completely quiet for the entire two minutes.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, it seems like personal growth is possible.

[Richard Osman]

It was the best bit of TV Piers has ever done, but it was a very smart bit of presenting. So he was just sort of looking at the camera as Russell Brand is just. He's leafing through this.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay, can I just say it's already meme of the year. Just call off the side. There's nothing. It is the most memeable thing that you can possibly have done. This clip is. I. I think it's absolutely extraordinary. What's interesting to me, I mean, there's so many things about it are interesting to me, but as. I don't know, I don't say an actor because, I mean, I've seen the films. But as a. As a person who is a comedian, what the hell happened to his sense of. You think they. I mean, obviously one of the biggest things comedians know about is timing and whatever and to not be aware of what is happening and not to just simply say, I can't find it now. Anyway, the point is.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, how.

[Marina Hyde]

What's happened?

[Richard Osman]

And to have something else on the top of your head that you say, easy, done.

[Marina Hyde]

But what has happened there, it seems to me, the most complete sort of collapse of all the sensibilities that made you successful and charismatic in the first place. To not understand that it was genuinely like 90 seconds or something. It's. It's so unbelievably painful and to not know how that would.

[Richard Osman]

But again, but he's from the world now where, you know, he's constantly making his own videos and constantly sort of making his own statements and lives in a world where, you know, the media is a very different thing than it used to be. So I guess he's just.

[Marina Hyde]

He's appearing on a show like that too, as well, in fairness. So you'd think that. But it just. It's so off.

[Richard Osman]

Well, the whole thing about being a comedian and being an intellectual and stuff. Again, we will talk about this properly when we can. When, you know, whatever gloves we currently have on either stay on or come off, but we can have a proper chat. I would argue he was never really a comedian. I mean, there is a group of people who, I mean, I didn't like it. Who's really a TV presenter.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

Who. Yeah, but, you know, but even.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, that's timing. I. To have just completely forgotten everything you ever knew. So it's interesting in terms of how I know this is this podcast slightly becoming. The rest is shamelessness in the old days. I do think that just that clip would be enough to do for you. But the point about all of this now is that if you decline, I mean, John Ronson, who wrote that book so youo think you've been publicly Shamed, which is such a good book, and caught such a mood at the absolute, you know, maybe not the absolute apex of people canceling people, but definitely in the kind of in, in the heyday of it all. I'd love him to go back now and talk about what the lack of shame is doing to the culture because the, the sort of elimination in it of people who've just decided not to care. Not to be shamed. Russell Brand will simply decide not to be shamed by the absolute preposterous hilarity of that. Of that clip and has already been. Been posting lots more and we'll just carry on and it will sort of be fine. So his new book is published by Skyhorse, but by a particular imprint of Skyhorse.

[Richard Osman]

Yes, Tucker Carlson Press. Tucker Carlson who? He was one of the very first trumpeters of Maga. He's now. He's gone slightly anti Maga, but not in a fun direction and he has set up his own press to publish.

[Marina Hyde]

He used to be a Fox News anchor and he no longer is. He's his own one man band now.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And you know, is he going to run for. For president all of this? Yeah, he, he has Tucker Carlson Press, which he says is to publish books that nobody else will publish and they won't. But listen, that feels like there's a lot of those around. But really he, he, he means controversial books by people awaiting trial.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, that, that genre.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Sky. Skyhorse have done quite a few of those as well.

[Richard Osman]

Are amazing.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, Skyhorse, really that, by the way, that's a sort of parent publishing and Simon and Schuster, I think distribute their stuff. So they're not one of Those people that you have to do direct to consumer marketing, they do actually have a bit more and a bit more of a chance to get things out there.

[Richard Osman]

They did. They did. The Biden crime family, which is the blueprint for their prosecution, that was written by Rudy Giuliani. He wrote that book. They wrote the Pfizer papers. Pfizers crimes against humanity. Both of those books, by the way, had forwards by the same person. Do you know who that might be? It's not Giles Brandreth. Steve Bannon.

[Marina Hyde]

Steve Bannon. I was going to say he's done. They've published one of his books.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, yeah. And you know who the forward of RFK's book was written by? Steve Bannon. There's like 10 books that Steve Bannon has done. The forward for Stephen K. Bannon.

[Marina Hyde]

Is there an official forwarder job? Just. I do forwards.

[Richard Osman]

I guess so, yeah. I don't know if it's the same. It's the same forward, but to be fair to Sky Horse's world, it's not all that. They also do the unofficial joke book for fans of Harry Potter. There's four of those.

[Marina Hyde]

Wow.

[Richard Osman]

Can I give you the subtitle to that? That's written. Talk about sitting around a table with lawyers. The unofficial joke book for fans of Harry Potter. On the COVID it says, this book is not authorized or sponsored by Bloomsbury Publishing, Scholastic Limited, Warner Brothers, J.K. rowling, or any other person or entity owning or controlling rights in the Harry Potter name, trademark or copyrights, all on the front cover.

[Marina Hyde]

Now you've only got to do another 36,960 words.

[Richard Osman]

They also do the large print Bible word search, which actually, that sounds like quite, quite a good book.

[Marina Hyde]

They did Woody Allen's memoir, Melania's memoir, RFK's attack on Anthony Fauci. Remember that Chief medical officer they've done. Yeah. So it's a vibe. They've done so many books on the JFK assassination, including one up which I love, written by Jesse Ventura. Do you remember Jesse Ventura, the former wrestler who actually became, I think. Was he governor of Minnesota? I think he might have become governor of Minnesota. He suddenly ran as governor of Minnesota.

[Richard Osman]

They did an amazing book called I Went to Prison so youo Won't have To by Peter Navar Navarro, the lawyer.

[Marina Hyde]

There's so many jokes I want to make right now, but I can't.

[Richard Osman]

Peter Navarro, the lawyer, by the way, wrote a previous book where he kept citing a legal expert called Ron Vara. And experts couldn't find any records of A Ron Vara. And then they realized that Ron Vara was an anagram of Peter Navarro's surname. And so he. Yeah, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Wow.

[Richard Osman]

Anyway, he went to prison, so we don't have to. I don't know if. I don't know if Russell Brand read it.

[Marina Hyde]

Did he go to prison for writing a bad book, or is it something. You know?

[Richard Osman]

I think he went to prison for some legal shenanigans. I wouldn't want to go into the detail. We're treading on such thin ice throughout this piece. Anyway. I don't want to not be sued by Russell Brand. But then we are sued by Peter Navarro.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, you're right. I mean, it's always the bit you're not expecting, I have to say, in my experience of legal actions.

[Richard Osman]

Anyway, make sure you look left and right.

[Marina Hyde]

Russell Brand's book.

[Richard Osman]

Yes.

[Marina Hyde]

It's described by Tucker Carlson Publishing as a testimony and guide to a timeless, yet zeitgeist capturing grounded, yet psychedelic encounter with Christ.

[Richard Osman]

Go through that again.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, I can't because there's so much more of this synopsis and I think you're gonna love it.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, amazing.

[Marina Hyde]

As much as the world is in cultural and political collapse, unless you've been living in a billionaire bunker on Epstein island, you know, we are. An extraordinary revival. With his customary, almost shocking frankness, Brand describes his apostasy from demonic Hollywood. By the way, I think Hollywood maybe cut t with him, but his apostasy from demonic Hollywood and radical conversion to Christianity against a backdrop of false allegations, his son's heart surgery and truly draw. Dropping spiritual warfare. If you are beginning to awaken to the profound changes that are sweeping our planet and want an eyewitness account from the front line. Okay. Described in gentle yet visceral prose. Not possible. Read this book now. So that words. I mean, he always did come off for Brussel Brand. Like he followed a dictionary and the pages had got in a muddle. It wasn't sitting well.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, yeah, listen, we. There's so many things we can't say. After his trial, which I think is set for October, we'll do a proper.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, yeah, well, we'll be covering that, I'm sure. Yes, absolutely. He now. But we should say he now loves Jesus.

[Richard Osman]

Yes.

[Marina Hyde]

Donald Trump, Andrew Tate. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that he was actually baptized. The story of the baptism is, I think, is quite interesting because that was not even two years ago, but it was before he was charged. And I want to hear so much more from Bear Grylls because Bear Grylls baptized or helped to baptize Russell Brand in the Thames. So in a stretch of the Thames. So Thames water no longer responsible for the biggest piece of. In that river. And he was assisted by.

[Richard Osman]

And by the way, perhaps that's, perhaps that's where this book has come from. Perhaps he came out of that river suddenly. Suddenly he's got something in his system impaginated form.

[Marina Hyde]

And he posted a picture of the baptism. Russell Brand saying, it's me, Bear Grylls, the river Thames and of course the Holy Spirit. But there were actually three guys in the pictures. There was one top of the Bear Grylls hugging each other, you know, waist high in the waters of the Thames. I mean don't try it at home but. And, and there was one, but the other guy had a big sort of one of those Japanese Hanya mask tattoos right all over his back. And so I don't think that was the Holy Spirit as far as I understand it. I don't think it was.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, have you seen the Holy Spirit?

[Marina Hyde]

No, I haven't.

[Richard Osman]

If you have.

[Marina Hyde]

If I believe Russell Brand's capture caption, maybe that was the Holy Spirit. I just didn't imagine him to have a back tattoo.

[Richard Osman]

Have you been given a reason to disbelieve anything Russell Brand says?

[Marina Hyde]

I'm not going to comment on that, Richard. What I'm going to say is what Bear Grylls said about it when he was called on it because he was the chief scout at the time, which is interesting for the Scout Association. Faith and spiritual moments in our lives are really personal. But it's a privilege to stand beside anyone when they express a humble need for forgiveness and strength from above. Friendships when we go through tough times are worth so much.

[Richard Osman]

It's true.

[Marina Hyde]

Again, I want to hear so much more from Bear Grylls about how things have developed. Perhaps we'll see him in the public gallery come October.

[Richard Osman]

Anyhow, he sort of did his own rewrite of the Bible, didn't he? Before Christmas. Bear Grylls, which people rather liked.

[Marina Hyde]

So Vance. What a Vance move.

[Richard Osman]

But it must be.

[Marina Hyde]

I don't think the Pope should disc be very careful when he's talking about theology and yeah. Rewriting the Bible.

[Richard Osman]

It must be very, very hard to be a Christian at the moment. To be an actual Christian at the moment. To be guided through your life by your faith.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Because of course what you want is, is as many people converting as possible. Of course what you want is high profile people converting. I don't know whether when they look around and see some of the people who talk about Christianity at the moment, whether they consider them to be true believers or whether they think they're using their faith, it must be, it must be a very conflicting time there.

[Marina Hyde]

Always used to that line and I don't know whose it is, but it's such a good one. They used to say the American Christian right, who tend to be neither. I always thought that was such a good, good way of putting it. But anyway, Russell Brand has to some extent, he's gone to live in America and he's sort of joined, he's appeared at the Conservative conferences, he's got a livestream thing that he does now. His appearance on Megyn Kelly, another Fox News host who's sort of carved out on her own and has got her own sort of podcast empire. On his Megyn Kelly appearance, he said that he had had sex with a 16 year old when he was 30. And he called it exploitative. He said he was an exploiter of women. His behaviour was awful but lawful. Again, that's about as much as we can say on that with a court case pending. But I suppose we should look at where his money comes from. He's got lots of future plans if the court case goes his way in October. He says he's going to run for London Mayor. But he has sold lots of books in the past.

[Richard Osman]

My bookie work was a big seller.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, he had to pay Pam McMillan back, didn't he? For two books, Self Help books, as

[Richard Osman]

I understand it, which he didn't deliver at all. Didn't even deliver a word, supposedly.

[Marina Hyde]

I mean, it's amazing they went through because as I was telling you, I'd spoken to some people in publishing not that long ago who said that they had never requested a returned advance if the book hadn't been handed in. And I was like, I'm so sorry. What sort of people have taken an advance, not written the book. They're years, years behind. And it's okay if it's like someone absolutely amazing, one of the sort of greats of the 20th century, and you just think, well, just maybe they'll turn it in and then I'll still have it. But I was amazed by how many had not been requested back. I thought that was a really fascinating thing.

[Richard Osman]

Well, because no one wants to have the conversation.

[Marina Hyde]

Wow, okay, well, Pam MacMillan were willing to have it. In fact, they wanted to have the conversation, I think by the High Court because they, they legally have sued for the return of. I think he got half of the advance, he got half of the overall payment and then he would have got the rest on delivery. So I suppose the economics of his world are he appears at Conservative conferences, which is lucrative. Yeah, very, very lucrative. Yeah. Like being a, you know, being on the after dinner circuit after you've been a Prime Minister or something like that, you get a lot of money for those sorts of things.

[Richard Osman]

It's like being a former professional golfer. Yeah, but you're.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, it's not quite Prime Minister.

[Richard Osman]

Your audience is very rich.

[Marina Hyde]

He does a daily live stream on Rumble. Yeah, I know. And, and obviously lots of that ends up on YouTube and he did have ad revenue from YouTube, but they brought this in if there are lots of allegations against you. And by the time he was charged, I think they restricted monetization, so you don't including ad revenue, so you get less. I think paid subscriptions are probably his main source of income. And the situation here is that actually you'd be shocked how much people draw in from these things. That's why he's gone to America, because it's just a bigger pool.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, the money is crazy and people will pay a lot of money to own the libs. This whole thing, you know, all starts with four letters which is woke. And everyone's on one side or other of that mirror. And if you're on the other side of that mirror, you are anti woke, then you will pay a huge amount of money to anybody who does anything if they'll come over onto your side. I think it's very expensive to be anti woke as a consumer.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. Because it. People pay him $50 a year for the witterings on Rumble, but it's estimated to me he's got something like 120,000 subscribers. That's 400 or $500,000 a month.

[Richard Osman]

Just for that.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, just for that. So I can't tell you that he is struggling desperately. And then, and much more shadowy I think even than that are the endorsements and affiliate deals that you do around that sort of content. So. And live events, as I say there, it's mainly turning up at these conferences, but it's very lucrative and that's why he's gone there.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Another interesting development this week as again, lots of things we can't talk about, but we can talk about things that are in the public realm. Catherine Ryan, who appeared on Roast Battle with Russell Brand, has said it got to the point on that show. She said, I only did the show really. So, you know, I felt I could say interesting things. She said it got to a point where she was told not to do any more jokes that Russell was the butt of and that he had complained and that she was asked, said, no, no, no. I mean, it's a celebrity roast battle. But it got to the point where she was not allowed to do jokes about him.

[Marina Hyde]

Can I sort of round up, I guess, by asking your opinion? We've talked about the economics of his world and how he gets his money, but this book tour is, I suppose, why we're even talking about this. Will this. Will this sell books? The Piers Morgan interview was, I think, two hours or something long. Really, really long, like they all are and that, but all anyone experiences them, as are clips that do or don't go viral. And obviously this one's gone incredibly viral. Will it. Will it sell books?

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, in America it will. Here it won't. But it's like saying, look, if Manchester City bring out a sippy cup for babies, which seems absurd, will that sell? And of course it will, because it's got Manchester City, you know, stamped on it. So Manchester City fans will buy it. And fans of. Not necessarily fans of Russell Brand, but fans of Jesus, fans of spending your money on false prophets.

[Marina Hyde]

Right. Wow, that's a huge fan base, for sure.

[Richard Osman]

That is an enormous fan base.

[Marina Hyde]

That's bigger than the Swifties.

[Richard Osman]

That is bigger than Swifties. So, yeah, I suspect he'll send some copies of this book. I've seen quotes about. I've seen a couple of reviews on it, some in the Christian press, which are very entertaining.

[Marina Hyde]

I wanted to actually buy it because I wanted to read it, but it's not out till later in May here.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, I mean, it's unreadable, right? But of course it's unreadable. Talking about him as a pro stylist and a comedian. Yeah, he was always annoying. Yeah. He promised something that he wasn't. But, you know, like with the Matthew Goodwin book we talked about, it's not just about the book itself anyway. It's about staying current and have something to talk about and being able to go on Megyn Kelly and Piers Morgan. That's the thing that that book is buying him and, you know, driving more subscribers to his channel. So in a way, even if he didn't sell books, it would be a loss leader. But he'll sell a few, I think. But as you say, it is dwarfed by the amount of money that he makes in subscriptions, which we have to.

[Marina Hyde]

If you have the shamelessness attribute, you can just carry on making the money.

[Richard Osman]

That is the most lucrative DNA glitch you can have is the shamelessness DNA.

[Marina Hyde]

You're quite right.

[Richard Osman]

I'd be surprised if there weren't parents in America now doing genetic screening to say what is the exact, what's the exact thing that we need there that our kid never ever worries about anything

[Seb Cardwell]

anyone says about him?

[Marina Hyde]

I'm incredibly interested in achieving that. But yes, it is the genuine superpower.

[Richard Osman]

I think we got away with that.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, that's that antihero taken care of. Join us after the break where we can discuss Lauren Sanchez.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, we're also going to talk about a genuine hero who we're going to be doing a Q and A with. And we'll be looking for your questions for that genuine hero as well. We'll let you know who that is after these ads.

[Home Depot Advertiser]

It's time to refresh your yard during Spring Backyard Days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179 like the next grill 3 burner gas grill. Or get $50 off a select Weber spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot now through May 6th. Exclusions apply. Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details

[Red Bull Advertiser]

ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com brightsummerahead to learn more. See you this summer

[Ross Advertiser]

girl. Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

[Richard Osman]

Welcome back everybody. Now lovely palate cleanser. Who are we talking to on a Q and A episode soon?

[Marina Hyde]

I can't believe this is actually happening. We are talking to Paul McCartney.

[Richard Osman]

The guy from the Beatles?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. He was in the Beatles. Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, the guy from Get Back.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Osman]

I love that show.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. We are talking to the legend Paul

[Richard Osman]

McCartney, but we will not be putting our questions to him, we'll be putting your questions to him. So any questions you have for Paul McCartney, I imagine you can think of a few if you send those to. The rest is entertainment. Goal hanger.com put Paul McCartney in the subject line in all caps and all in caps. Oh, my God, it's Paul McCartney as your subject. And yeah, any questions you've ever wanted to ask Paul McCartney, we'll put your questions to him. That'd be fun, won't it?

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, my gosh, that I will, yeah. I mean, I won't be speechless, obviously.

[Richard Osman]

That would be bad walks. I mean, that's a guy who never had to get baptized in a river. I just say that about the dude, just, you know, back in the good old days where, you know, our cultural icons or actual cultural icons don't cross

[Marina Hyde]

those two very, very different streams. Richard.

[Richard Osman]

It's actually a river.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. Tell me about Channel 5 drama, Richard.

[Richard Osman]

Yes, Channel 5 I like. You know, I try and beat the drum as much as I can for British television and for, you know, good old fashioned British terrestrial television as well. Only because that's where I kind of grew up. And, you know, it gets a terrible press because all we talk about is streamers and the way that new media is going. And there are still huge success stories, interesting television, you know, we've seen plenty of them. BBC, ITV, Channel 4. But five have very quietly put together a quite extraordinary stable of dramas, I would say. And they've done it because the middle of the drama industry on terrestrial television has really been hollowed out. If you're BBC or itv, they're still doing brilliant dramas, but they're doing fewer of them. They tend to be bigger. And there was, there was a whole range of shows that stopped getting made. You could sort of symbolize them by thinking, when somebody leaves a British soap opera, where do they go? And it used to be they would go to a lovely BBC drama or an ITV drama and you know, that market has gone. And also they've been Channel five and back to five and Channel five and back to five. A lot of times we know what we're talking about. It's the fifth button. Do people still use the fifth button? I don't know. Anyway, no. So the easiest drama strategy for five would be not to do drama at all. That would be. That's the alternate reality here. That is 10 years ago they go, we know how much money We've got. We know how much money drama costs

[Marina Hyde]

because it is very expensive.

[Richard Osman]

Very, very expensive. Yeah, exactly. And we know the return on that investment is. Is often not amazing. So we are not going to do drama at all. That would have been nine times out of 10 that that would be the thing that they would have done. But I remember many years ago, Ben Frau, who we've talked about on this show before, who's very good at spotting the zeitgeist at Channel 4, he's their chief content officer. He was the chief content officer.

[Seb Cardwell]

He said, we're gonna do drama.

[Richard Osman]

And now the whole thing is run by a guy called Seb Cardwell. And it's something we could have talked about for a long time. But when I was watching the Hugh Edwards drama, the Martin Klune thing, which is classic Five, which is, you know, a big zeitgeisty idea with a big British TV star in the middle of it, they were able to advertise in the breaks and that all of the stuff they've done for the last four or five years. And when you saw it all, you think, blimey, it's unbelievable. It is really, really unbelievable. Now, what they do, they make drama very, very, very cheaply. They have a number of companies. Clapperboard is one of them. Lonesome Pine is another one of them who have found a way of making shows very, very cheaply. So I spoke to Seb Cardwell this week about how they've done it and where this. Where this industry is going and also something that the British government could do to help them. So I'll just go through some of the amazing shows they've done. They had the Game. That's Robson Green, Jason. Jason Watkins is one of the big superstars on Five, as is Jill Halfpenny, who's in the Feud as Jill Halfpenny. Rupert Penry Jones, Larry Lamb, Jamie Leo Donnell. I mean, everyone recognizes all of these actors and yet we don't see them every week. And they've really cashed in on that missed call. Joanna Scanlon. They've done a whole new series of Dal Gleach, the Hardacres, which they're doing a second series of.

[Marina Hyde]

They've got a few period things.

[Richard Osman]

The Teacher they did with Sheridan Smith and they bought that back for another couple of series. All Creatures Great and Small, of course, has been a huge hit for them. They're on series six of that with Sam West. So they built up this. This incredible stable of shows. And I talked to Seb about how they've done it and how they've done it for the money. And it's a couple of things, really, I think. Firstly, they don't have a big system where 100 companies just pitch new things to them and they put a load of development money in. And, you know, the normal thing, as you all know better than anyone, if you're developing a drama, there's like 18 months up front where you're developing scripts and sort of giving a first draft and a second draft and a third draft and everyone has their say and they go, actually, this is not for us, or perhaps we can do it like this. And they don't do that at all. They tend to have a group of very, very trusted suppliers and they will just sit around and say, what would be a good idea for a show? They were talking about the feud, and the feud was just one of their writers was talking about an extension that a neighbor was having. And the arguments that people have, and they were went, great, that's a great idea for a show. We know what that show is. And they just let the writer go off and write it.

[Marina Hyde]

So they commission almost instantly. Effectively.

[Richard Osman]

Exactly. Seb says, look, we don't pay a lot of money, but we green light quickly, or we'll say, no quickly. And as you know, when you're making drama, a lot of the costs are those upfront costs where you're developing five or six different things all of the time. The next thing they do, of course, is they don't film in the uk, and we talked a lot about the tax breaks you get in the UK

[Seb Cardwell]

and why they're so good for the

[Richard Osman]

UK film industry and why we've got these enormous studios now. But the tax breaks only come in over a certain level, which I think is a million pound an hour. And Channel 5's dramas are not costing that. Some of them around 350,000 an hour. I mean, they're super, super cheap. They make shows in Malta, Spain, Ireland, Hungary, Greece. They're about to do a shoot in Lithuania. Love Rat, which is another one of their really, really great shows, was filmed in Cyprus. Alibi, who do great drama as well, will tell you the same. You know, Eagle Eye make a lot of their stuff and they're always in Italy or Belgium or all over. And given that drama is going to get cheaper as the years go by, firstly because people like five and Alibi have shown that you can make it cheaper, and secondly, because AI will make cost savings in certain areas. I think if Britain wants a share of this new sort of drama world, they have to reduce the level at which the tax breaks kick in. And I know that Five are really, really lobbying for that. So we'll just add up.

[Marina Hyde]

I was talking to another producer who's done some really about that, saying that if you don't do that, these kind of great three part or four part dramas or whatever, you know, where however you divide it that are non returning will sort of disappear and they can be about really amazing things. It could be like mis debates that everybody talks about and become a huge thing. But if you don't back them up in some way with tax concessions, then I think it's quite difficult for people to do it.

[Richard Osman]

And also if you're, if you're wondering by the way why so many new dramas are, are set abroad, why, you know, Hotel Portofino or the Madame Blanc Mysteries, which is. Sally Lindsay was another of the real superstars of Five, why there are so many shows that are set abroad. Well, that's because then you can film abroad and it looks like abroad.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

Whereas some shows you have to. You film abroad, you have to try and make it look like the uk. Now the other fascinating thing that Seb said and I do think this is very, very good news for the industry, he's talking about streaming for all companies. Streaming is huge for Five, it is.

[Marina Hyde]

By the way, I should have said service my five.

[Richard Osman]

My five. Yeah, I should have said right at the beginning that they are making really good dramas. I mean it's almost always zeitgeist y stuff with people you recognize, well written and you can see it's a little cheaper than other stuff. But you know, you're driven by great

[Seb Cardwell]

performances and great story.

[Richard Osman]

But he was saying when a show is on scheduled TV on 5, he said the average age of the audience is 64. But you know, are young people interested in drama particularly? Well, on streaming, the average age comes down to, to 54, which as a 55 year old I think is pretty young. But again, 54 is a sort of another traditional age for British terrestrial tv. Even the streaming services of British terrestrial tv. So perhaps only older people are interested in this. But five have had a few shows go to Netflix. They've done very, very well on Netflix as well. And the average age on Netflix for five drama is 34. And 34 is a very interesting number if you're interested in the health of British TV and the future of British TV and British drama. So I think what it goes to show is not everything has to be succession.

[Marina Hyde]

No.

[Richard Osman]

Because a Not, not everyone can write succession. But B, most people don't want to watch succession. It's the truth. The people like us who want to watch it absolutely love it. But most people want a good story well told. There is not the money left in British TV to make those types of shows. So you have to find a hero of some sort to, to try and drive this industry through. And Seb at 5 and the gang at Alibi as well, who do Marlowe, murder mysteries, all sorts of things like that. They are finding a way to make extremely popular content, content that's absolutely loved by people you don't see written about an awful lot in the broadsheets, but is doing huge, huge numbers. So they are doing that week in, week out. There's a whole industry they've created. So firstly, I must say congratulations to them and to all the people making those shows. But secondly, I'd like to say if we could get that industry back in UK studios, it would make an awful lot of money for everybody. So this, this idea of lowering that, that tax break level would be incredibly lucrative, I think, for, for Britain and for the British film industry.

[Marina Hyde]

Because what we talk about so much is that if you have the global TV channel, which is Netflix, you do you get these shows that sometimes they make a show which, you know, it's great, but something like Sex Education, but it could sort of be anywhere and you have the absolute sort of local feel and even, you know, regional feel where you think, oh, this is, you've got a new one coming, you know, that's set in Newcastle, the Fortune that's coming imminently and you know it where it is. And you won't have that sort of television if the government doesn't help in that way. I think you won't have things that are like, oh, I know exactly where this is, or this is, you know, I understand the regions of my country. You won't have that at all because what Netflix does is they can't do that.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marina Hyde]

Italy or it's the UK or it's much broader, broader brush.

[Richard Osman]

And as I say, listen, all the channels are doing good work in drama. You look at Dirty Water on Channel four, all the channels doing good stuff, but they're doing less and less of it. And this is a way of just getting that conveyor belt of great drama, getting that continuing. I know Five have got a few announcements they're making in the next couple of weeks with really, really interesting shows with really, really big names. And I'll also say this, they've revived Play For Today.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

So, you know, Play for today was a UK thing in the 70s, 80s and you know, it was one off plays when by people like Dennis Potter and usually dealing with, with you know, kind of issues of the day. And everyone bemoans the fact that there's no Play For Today. And they were one offs which made them very, very expensive. But Channel 5 have bought that back and they have bought it back in a way that I think is very interesting, which is they have said, said we're going to give this to companies who are going to employ people from lower income backgrounds. So, you know, there's lots and lots of different schemes for getting underrepresented communities into television, but lower income backgrounds is one that has not been concentrated on quite so much. So they.

[Marina Hyde]

Class is the hardest thing. People always say. Exactly. Who try and deal with these targets say it's actually the hardest one to do.

[Richard Osman]

And you know, this is an area where there's not a lot of money for 5 in doing these series. But what they do is it's a showcase for new writers, new directors, for interesting actors and for production companies. They did five of them last year, they're going to do some more of them. And the point of them is they might zero money out of them, but they might just find a writer who works with them for the next 20, 30 years and a director who knows that they owe them and will do stuff for them for the next 20 or 30 years. And to allow a ramp into this industry for people who didn't previously have it, let's get behind their attempts to lower that tax break as well and then we can all do more of it. So I think a rare success story and it comes about from people. So. So a big up to Alibi and a big up to Seb Cardwell, who I think is doing extraordinary things. Have we, I hope, left enough time to talk about Lauren Sanchez and the Met Gala? I know Jeff Bezos as well, but Sanchez is really the. She's the headliner.

[Marina Hyde]

That's the T here. Yeah. This time next week, it will be the day of the Met Gala on the Monday when we record this. And by the time the podcast lands, it will be the morning after.

[Richard Osman]

I know I'll be so hungover.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Because I'm looking forward to it very much.

[Marina Hyde]

Like all normal people, I will want to be in my pajamas saying, oh, my God, that dress is a war crime for one of the most beautiful women in the world.

[Richard Osman]

Well, I'm gonna be because I got Invited this year.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, yeah, fine.

[Richard Osman]

No, I didn't.

[Marina Hyde]

No, I know why. You don't think we'd have been talking about that.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[Marina Hyde]

Four weeks in advance. It's the biggest event in the fashion calendar. And it's presided over, always was, by Anna Wintour, who was, of course, the famously fearsome editor in chief of American Vogue for so many years and is now the Chief Content officer global of Conde Nast.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, I remember when I got made chief Content officer, which is when I didn't go in so much.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, well, yes, I think she still has a stranglehold over all of it, I have to say. I don't think she's one for letting go, you know? And as editor of American Vogue for so long, she was worshiped for our snobbery, really, I would say. And she famously inspired the character of Miranda Priestley in the Devil Wears Prada. Anyway, the Met Gala this year is going to be sponsored by Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos, who have become sort of honorary co chairs, if you give enough money. That happening represents a complete defeat for her and everything that she. Because she was the ultimate sort of tastemaker. And if I could describe my beloved Lauren, I would say she's a sort of lack of tastemaker. And, you know, mostly that's fine. She's enjoying her money and that's absolutely fine. But Anna Wintour would have loathed everything she stood for for almost her entire career, and now she has to sort of let her in. Now, we've talked before about how the Met Gala works, but it benefits the Costume Institute as part of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. There's a guest list. Anna Winter used to have to approve lots of the big stars, looks. I mean, you were dragooned into buying tables. And the tables are really expensive. They're like $350,000 for one table.

[Richard Osman]

Wow. Do you get to keep the table?

[Marina Hyde]

No. It'd be nice, wouldn't it? It was always said you couldn't buy your way in. Well, I'm afraid you can now.

[Richard Osman]

Often you can't buy your way in at the bottom, but you can buy your way in at the top, right?

[Marina Hyde]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

And what's interesting is that it's all sort of bound up with the release of The Devil Wears Prada 2, which is coming on Friday, which I went to the premiere of. You can't discuss the film because it's embargoed still till Wednesday or something, when the critics reviews are allowed to come out. But it's no secret that it returns to the world. And the characters of the original film, which came out 20 years ago, remember it's set at a fashion magazine and Meryl Streep's the Anna Winter figure and she's all powerful, et cetera. I think that that premise alone, to me, feels like reanimating what is definitely a lost world. And the world has changed so much and it's been devalued and it's been destroyed to some extent.

[Richard Osman]

It's now the devil own.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, the devil wears Amazon. But really, it's weird. Anna went to having been so sort of famously frosty, you know, the brilliant nickname Nuclear Winter. She's now on the COVID of Vogue with Meryl Streep. Everything she does now, to me, feels like the actions of a desperado.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, my God, Is she going to be baptized in the Thames by Bear Grylls?

[Marina Hyde]

I don't think she's ever been near a Hanya mask tattoo, let me tell you. That back tattoo is still not in vague. But her revolution is over for sure. And I think all of it is embodied by this relationship with Lauren Sanchez. Because Lauren in the old days would never have been admitted to this world unless she changed. There were always a succession of people getting enormous money, particularly in America. There always is. And normally then they have to come into a certain form of society. And there are other women trying to trip you up, normally other women who've got there like five seconds before you. And. And it's so interesting reading about what it used to be like to be the wife of a billionaire. Barbara o', Meill who is married to Conrad Black, became part of this billionaire's world. Her memoir. She constantly feels like she's doing it wrong. She'll go to a party, she'll, you know, we're wearing all her many diamonds, and it will be like, oh, it's. Sorry, it's Patio jewelry. That's necklaces. $1 million or under patio Jewelry. Patio Jewelry is just my favorite. Yeah. She's always thinking. She says, I was consumed by fear of not doing it right. Let me tell you something about Lauren Sanchez. She has spent not one second of her life thinking, am I doing it right? She wants to look really hot, really rich, and like she's having a really good time. Absolutely. All of the time. Now that's quite fun. But Anna Winter was a sort of gatekeeper of a world. And it's interesting what has changed over those 20 years since that first film came out. And now, and I would say that what's changed is the nature of celebrity and also what happened with Silicon Valley. So. So Kim Kardashian was, like, the last of those people who would never have been admitted either, but then bent the knee and spent a really long time bending the knee to fashion and to Anna Wintour, and eventually she put her on the COVID And also she realized that she needed her for the Met Gala because she creates these viral moments, and she turns up in this or that dress in it. But you need that kind of viral online moment.

[Richard Osman]

And if you want to attract fame and power, fame and power is coming from a different place.

[Marina Hyde]

And it's not.

[Richard Osman]

Locks it.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, but she would never have, like, chauffeured her all the way around Paris for Fashion Week, as at the couture shows. Anna Winter basically seemed to drive Lauren Sanchez not literally in the front with the chauffeur's cap on, but that'd be quite funny. But drive her around to all the shows. And there's something about Lauren Sanchez. It is like, okay, you don't. She doesn't care. You don't want to lend me your clothes? Okay, that's fine. It doesn't matter. I can, like, obviously buy all your clothes, but not only that, I can buy your parent companies. So there's a certain, like, level of money that is completely transformative. And I would say that all the power that used to be in magazines has now completely flowed away to the tech platforms, completely. In Vogue's case, first and foremost, to Instagram and sort of Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, Zuckerberg style. What. What is the style? He dresses like a. Like a. Like a Serbian who owns a adult webcam business. You know, seriously, like, by the way,

[Richard Osman]

that is sort of what he years.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. I'm simply talking about the fashion.

[Richard Osman]

By the way, that's no disrespect to Serbs there.

[Marina Hyde]

No, no, no, no, no. Well, in the old. In previous generations, he might have gone into warlordery, but then he just discovered there's more money in girls. Just talking about the fashion aesthetic, not about, you know, Instagram, although maybe. And so it's interesting that those tables that I talked to you about, there's $350,000 tables for the one night at the Met Gala. These. These people who've bought up tables this year. Meta Instagram, Amazon, OpenAI. I mean, hold on.

[Richard Osman]

Goal hanger.

[Marina Hyde]

I wish. I actually don't. I just like to watch it online. I mean, who wants that? Yes, but we wouldn't show.

[Richard Osman]

But we can see what Dom Sandbrook is wearing.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah. Who are you wearing?

[Richard Osman]

Sorry?

[Marina Hyde]

Surely.

[Richard Osman]

Who are you wearing, Robert?

[Marina Hyde]

And also, of course, museums have always had terrible patrons that they have to sort of fawn over, because otherwise you're not going to get the wing of your gallery built. But I do think that all of this is a sort of lost world. And it was interesting, funnily enough. Again, I can't talk about the. What was in the film because when I went to this premiere, but it was a massive premiere in Leicester Square in London. Like, probably one of the. I mean, the biggest one that there's been there for a while. And I mean, you can look at my face, you can see I'm not in the looks business. Okay. But I'd never felt so glad I wasn't. There are so many, and they look beautiful, all of these people, but there are almost hundreds of sort of influencers and whatever who. I mean, I can't explain how long it must have taken all of them to get ready. And they're just being sort of herded this way and that. It's the brutality of it. Like, really, I'm. And this is. No. And I just thought, oh, my God, I am so glad I'm, like, not in this. That business. It's so hard. You know, they all had sort of like resting, worry face. They all look worried all the time. They didn't know which stairs to get, you know, because there's so many of them. And what you have to do is, you know, you get your quick moment in the way you're photographed and then that will go online. And it exists really as a sort of digital moment. And you've had to go through hours and hours and hours of preparation and the sort of indignity of being herded this way and that during. I found it like a scene of just total pathos. And I was just so glad I wasn't. And this is no disrespect to. I mean, they all look beautiful. Like hundreds and hundreds of beautiful butterflies, but sort of in a net. But it's like in a bit of a horrid way.

[Richard Osman]

It's like. It's like seeing the young men going off to war in 1930. Yeah, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Or even worse, 1914. Think it'd be over in 15 minutes. She's like, guys, you're quite literally in the trenches here. But I found it a scene of pathos, I will say that, but yes. So I think in the end, it will be interesting to see how this event that exists really as a viral thing now, the Met gala, but it's no longer. I don't think about gatekeeping and style, which is sort of evidenced by the fact that it's effectively been bought, but by someone who I don't think anyone would think was our century's greatest arbiter of taste, dear old Lauren. You can buy these things now, and the tech companies, the kind of least stylish people in the world, really can buy them.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, well, you buy what you don't have, don't you? Don't forget all your Questions for Paul McCartney. If you send those to the wrestlers entertainmentolehanger.com, do some good ones, please, because we got to sit in front of them and ask those questions. I know you will.

[Marina Hyde]

We will be back on Thursday with our questions and answers episode and on Friday for our members, a bonus episode about the history of Brett Breakfast Television, which is such a ride.

[Richard Osman]

Oh gosh, it's so up my street.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, it is. Mine as well. If you want to join for ad free listening and bonus episodes, it's theres entertainment.com. otherwise, we'll see you on Thursday.

[Richard Osman]

See you Thursday.

[Columbia Advertiser]

You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia engineered for whatever.