Elon Musk vs Christopher Nolan

Summary

The Rest Is Entertainment
Episode: Elon Musk vs Christopher Nolan
Date: May 18, 2026
Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde

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Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Richard Osman and Marina Hyde dissect the week's biggest entertainment controversies, focusing on the social media uproar surrounding Christopher Nolan’s casting choices for his new film adaptation of the Odyssey—particularly, Elon Musk's highly publicized critiques. The hosts also explore the mechanics behind TV show reboots (with a focus on the return of 'Big Break'), and analyze the evolving strategy behind studio participation at international film festivals like Cannes. Across discussions of ancient Greek epics and media industry maneuvering, the hosts provide witty, informed commentary on pop culture’s hottest debates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Elon Musk vs Christopher Nolan: The Odyssey Casting Controversy

• Background: Christopher Nolan’s adaptation of the Odyssey casts Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy, sparking backlash from Elon Musk and his followers.

• Musk’s Criticism: Musk claims the casting is "not realistic" and accuses Nolan of diversity box-ticking to qualify for Oscars, posting about it approximately "950 times" ([05:36], Therese Coffey).

• Hosts’ Reaction:

  • Richard and Marina mock the idea of Musk as a relevant authority on artistic decisions:

    “The second I see any casting I always think, I wonder what Elon Musk thinks. That's the opinion I want to hear.” – Richard Osman ([05:23]) “He’s…poster who had to buy the company so that he could be the primo shit poster.” – Marina Hyde ([09:41])

  • They confront critics like Matt Walsh for calling Nolan “technically talented, but a coward” ([09:13]), pushing back against culture war narratives:

    "Do you know what, Matt Walsh? When people are filling the multiplexes to see your movies, we will listen to your opinions about Christopher Nolan, okay?" – Richard Osman ([09:18])

• On Artistic Interpretation:

  • Marina and Richard highlight that re-imagining classical works is a long artistic tradition and that Helen has been played by non-white actors before (e.g., Eartha Kitt cast by Orson Welles; [13:19]), making current outrage feel reactionary and ahistorical:

    "The way that works of art… are reinterpreted over time…it's kind of what keeps them alive." – Marina Hyde ([13:06]) "Certainly not the first one to have a non-white Helen of Troy. Orson Welles cast Eartha Kitt as Helen." – Therese Coffey ([13:17])

  • They mock the idea that casting diversity is an “unrealistic” desecration when the Odyssey includes cyclops and other fantastical elements:

    “It’s got a Cyclops in it. I mean, it’s ridiculous.” – Therese Coffey ([14:53]) "This is like when people have an absolute meltdown about what can happen to Doctor Who…and you're like, he’s got two hearts, he's an alien." – Marina Hyde ([14:59])

• Cultural Critique:

  • They analyze why certain men, especially tech billionaires, are obsessed with historical and fantasy narratives:

    "It’s because women always get treated like complete shit in them. Always." – Marina Hyde ([15:49])

  • Discussion of how pre-release controversies ("frontlash") can actually harm films by depressing turnout from casual audiences, with examples from 'Ghostbusters' and 'The Little Mermaid' ([18:54]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "He's built this company…must be something in childhood that means he constantly wants to be funny. He constantly thinks, ‘if I made the Odyssey, I'd make it proper.’” – Richard Osman ([10:49])
• "You can't be non-basic in most parts of your life…it's actually fine because you're amazing at the space thing.” – Therese Coffey ([12:33])
• “You cannot tell me that Lupita Nyong’o is the most beautiful woman in the world. Whoopi Goldberg said, mate, have you looked in a mirror?” – Richard Osman paraphrasing criticism ([16:26])

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2. Reboots and the Return of ‘Big Break’

• Background: The classic snooker game show ‘Big Break,’ originally hosted by Jim Davidson and John Virgo, is being rebooted with Paddy McGuinness and Stephen Hendry ([27:26]).
• Why Now?
  • The new version aims to provide BBC2 with flexible, companion programming for snooker broadcasts and VOD platforms, at low cost:

    “It will be a program that they can just put out…see how it does…And if people love it, they can do a primetime version.” – Richard Osman ([32:21])

  • Format origins: Story of how the idea was contested in court and the unexpected origin from a Birmingham cab driver, Roger Medcalf ([28:41]).
• The Golden Age of TV Game Shows: Richard traces the genealogy from 'Bullseye' (darts) → 'Big Break' (snooker) → failed attempts to make a golf version 'Full Swing' ([29:39]).
• Industry Insight:
  • Reboots are less about nostalgia and more about strategic content deployment.
  • Analysis of the value of strong formats ("the format was the royalty") and how they adapt across eras and personalities.

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Memorable Quotes

• “They’re doing 20 episodes…it’s not going to be expensive…It will be an accompaniment to their snooker programming…if people like it, suddenly they will have a hit.” – Richard Osman ([32:21])
• “That’s one of the casinos you somehow can drive to bankruptcy.” – Marina Hyde on Trump Card's casino setting ([34:44])

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3. Relevance of Cannes Film Festival: Strategic Retreat by US Studios

• No Studio Films at Cannes:
  • Notable for the absence of US studio premieres or splashy American films at this year’s festival ([37:44]).
  • Reason: Studios avoid early high-risk launches that could provoke bad buzz or unwanted political controversy in the current media environment ([38:54]).
  • Critique of the uncontrollable environment:

    “It is so stressful…immediately whether your thing that you’ve lavished…has worked. You can just feel it. It’s in the air.” – Marina Hyde ([38:31])

• International Perspective:
  • Marina and Richard detail the French obsession with preserving their own culture in cinema and food:

    “They love French films in France; over there they call them films.” – Richard Osman ([36:47])

• Award Season Strategy:
  • Studios now prefer to launch awards contenders in the autumn (Venice/September) rather than risking early exposure at Cannes:

    “The second it is out in the world…whatever momentum you planned, that can be derailed and so try and derail it as late as possible in the process.” – Richard Osman ([42:59])

  • Stars and studios seek controlled environments to debut films; festivals are “down and dirty” and can backfire ([43:20]).

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Memorable Quotes

• “If you really care about something…do not choose the first group of people you show it to to be French, because they will not be polite if they don’t like it.” – Richard Osman ([42:35])
• “Leave that to one side. It’s the idea that you just can’t…sustain it off that and it sort of falls off the screen.” – Therese Coffey ([43:50])

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4. Wit, Therapy, and the Inner Lives of Billionaires

• Richard and Marina riff on the novelty of billionaires seeking therapy:

  “There’s no way that Zuckerberg and Musk sit down once a fortnight with someone wise to talk to them about their childhood…” – Richard Osman ([21:58])

  • Producer Joey confirms Musk’s anti-therapy stance and “rage of horses in my mind” quote ([25:33]).
• Joking suggestions for a future show about a billionaire’s personal therapist, “because they have someone for everything else” ([22:27]).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “The second I see any casting I always think, I wonder what Elon Musk thinks. That’s the opinion I want to hear.” – Richard Osman ([05:23])
• “[Musk] posted just the 950 times or something about it.” – Therese Coffey ([05:36])
• “You’re amazing at the space thing and that’s actually fine.” – Therese Coffey ([12:33])
• “He constantly wants to be funny. He constantly thinks, if I made the Odyssey, I’d make it proper.” – Richard Osman ([10:49])
• “Certainly not the first one to have a non-white Helen of Troy. Orson Welles cast Eartha Kitt as Helen of Troy.” – Therese Coffey ([13:19])
• “It’s got a Cyclops in it. I mean, it’s ridiculous.” – Therese Coffey ([14:53])
• “If you really care about something…do not choose the first group of people you show it to to be French, because they will not be polite if they don’t like it.” – Richard Osman ([42:35])
• “You cannot tell me that Lupita Nyong’o is the most beautiful woman in the world. Whoopi Goldberg said, mate, have you looked in a mirror?” – Richard Osman ([16:26])
• “There’s no way that Zuckerberg and Musk sit down once a fortnight with someone wise to talk to them about their childhood…” – Richard Osman ([21:58])
• “Rage of Horses is good, Elon. That's a good bit of writing.” – Richard Osman ([25:59])

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Segment Timestamps (Approximate)

• 02:05–05:12: Main theme introduction, announcement of topics, background on Musk vs Nolan
• 05:12–18:54: Deep-dive on the Odyssey casting controversy, Musk’s response, industry and cultural analysis, earlier history of non-white Helens, wider points about media “frontlash”
• 18:54–21:46: Controversy’s impact on audience turnout, the nature of online outrage and the “town square”, billionaire psychology
• 21:46–25:30: Therapy riff, Musk’s personal quotes, segues to next topics
• 26:28–35:33: ‘Big Break’ reboot: show history, why it's coming back, strategic BBC content planning, fun detours into TV history
• 35:38–44:09: Cannes Film Festival: structure, French cinematic culture, reasons for lack of studio films, festival risks and industry strategy
• 44:09–end: Recommendations (Rivals, Harry Styles’ Dance No More), teasers for upcoming episodes, sign-off

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Overall Tone & Style

Smart, irreverent, and conversational, with deep knowledge of media history and a flair for wry, self-aware humor. Both Richard and Marina weave industry insight with accessible analogies, never shying away from calling out absurdity in the culture wars or the entertainment machine.

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Recommendations

• Rivals – New season praised, hosts give full-throated endorsement.
• Harry Styles – “Dance No More” (Music Video) – Marina’s quirky pick for listeners needing a bit of joy ([44:27]).

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Summary:
This episode provides a masterclass in pop culture analysis, deftly sorting real artistic concern from contrived controversy in the current media landscape. Richard Osman and Marina Hyde demonstrate how ancient myths, Hollywood spectacle, and Twitter storms all interact to shape what—and who—entertains us, all while never missing a punchline.

Transcript

[Therese Coffey]

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[Marina Hyde]

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[Richard Osman]

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[Therese Coffey]

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[Marina Hyde]

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[Richard Osman]

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[Therese Coffey]

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[Therese Coffey]

Hello and welcome to this episode of

[Marina Hyde]

the rest is entertainment with me, Marina

[Richard Osman]

Hyde and me, Richard Osman. Hello, everyone. Hello, Marina.

[Marina Hyde]

Hello, Richard. How are you?

[Richard Osman]

I'm very, very, very well. Big week for show business this week. Rivals back again. We're going to find out the strictly hosts today. We're not allowed to announce it because it's. We're going to go out in the morning. Yeah. But we're very happy with them. Yeah, I think it's good. Yeah, I think it's good. By the time this goes out you'll know who they are.

[Marina Hyde]

So this is.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, yeah. Why do people announcing things on Tuesdays

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, it's really annoying.

[Marina Hyde]

Try and you know, try and make the effort and do it at the weekend.

[Richard Osman]

But that's why that's like have I got news for you. They always record on Thursdays and that's always when elections are.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And they're always sort of recording going well, I mean we've absolutely no idea.

[Marina Hyde]

I wrote quite a few columns like that last week. But anyway, please don't let this be overtaken by 2pm I'm accepting it's going to be overtaken by 6pm but that's

[Richard Osman]

like us for Strictly.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, that is what I'm saying.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. What are we talking about?

[Marina Hyde]

We are talking about phenotypes in nearly 3000 year old works of literature.

[Richard Osman]

What is a phenotype? Just out of interest.

[Therese Coffey]

It is the observable physical characteristics of an organism.

[Richard Osman]

Gotcha. Absolutely none the wiser.

[Marina Hyde]

We are talking about Elon Musk getting very angry with Christopher Nolan for casting

[Therese Coffey]

a black woman as Helen of Troy.

[Richard Osman]

We'll talk about that. We are talking about. You might be shocked to learn that I'll be taking the lead on this next one. The return of Big Break. Big Break is coming back. I'll talk about the original. I talk about.

[Marina Hyde]

It's a snooker show.

[Richard Osman]

I love the fact that.

[Therese Coffey]

I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. There are some people who are in

[Marina Hyde]

our audience who will not be aware of Big Break. I'm so sorry. There are.

[Richard Osman]

There really are not. There is.

[Therese Coffey]

Oh my God. I'd love to poll this.

[Richard Osman]

I would love to poll this.

[Therese Coffey]

I'd love to poll this. Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

I know about phenotype. I know what you're gonna say.

[Richard Osman]

Do you know what a phenotype is? Have you heard a Big Break?

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. But I think you'd also be quite disappointed by the answers.

[Richard Osman]

I'm gonna. You know what? I'm gonna talk to our lovely friends at More in Common. I mean they've got better things to be doing at the moment. But I'm gon. People know what the. Come off that.

[Marina Hyde]

Come off the election and come and tell me how many people in the wrestlers entertainment audience have heard a big break.

[Therese Coffey]

I'm not saying nobody has. I'm saying it's more niche than you think it is.

[Marina Hyde]

Sorry. Anyway, we're talking about. But it won't be soon, would it? Because it's returning and we'll be talking about that.

[Richard Osman]

I might not be able to get past that. I might. Until I might have to get the polling done live. Okay, we're talking about that.

[Therese Coffey]

We're also talking about the Cannes Film Festival which is running over this part of last week and to the end of this week where there are no studio films, no big US studio films. And we're going to talk about why. Because it's interesting. It's a bit, a sort of departure.

[Richard Osman]

Shall we start with Musk versus Christopher Nolan?

[Marina Hyde]

Yes.

[Therese Coffey]

Somehow Elon versus Nolan just feels like

[Marina Hyde]

it's the one to go with.

[Therese Coffey]

But yes. So the Odyssey comes out on July 17th. Obviously it has all been shot but there are certain little bits of minor characters by the way, because Helen of Troy is a minor character in the Odyssey. Big in the Iliad.

[Richard Osman]

It's one of the famous ones. Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Big in the Iliad.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. But yeah, it's more of a cameo in the Odyssey.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, you're coming back but you're not a series regular.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

So anyway, and he's revealed that or they've done as a publicity shot. So we now know that Lupita Nyong' o is Helen of Troy. Elon Musk has lost his mind because

[Richard Osman]

you know what, the second I see any casting I always think, I wonder what Elon Musk thinks. That's the opinion I want to hear.

[Therese Coffey]

I couldn't agree more. So it's great that he, he's immediately come out and you know, as is his customary style, posted just the 950

[Marina Hyde]

times or something about it.

[Therese Coffey]

He says it's not realistic that Christopher Nolan is doing it for the Oscars. He's got some sort of quota system that he thinks that if you have a certain amount of diversity then you've done it to meet the Academy's diversity quotas and therefore you are eligible. He makes great films about men and the women who love them and. I'm kidding.

[Richard Osman]

Come on now we've got Marina Hyde versus Christopher Nolan.

[Therese Coffey]

No we haven't. Elon Musk loves Troy. You know there was a Brad Pitt one, but that's. I know that's the Iliad and Brad Pitt's Achilles and I can't remember who's had it. Diane Kruger maybe. It's a long time ago. I've seen it once. Even though that movie by the way

[Marina Hyde]

plays incredibly fast and loose with the Iliad with potential massive knock ons in the Homeric extended universe.

[Richard Osman]

I remember being at that cinema just saying this is playing fast and loose with Iliad, isn't it?

[Therese Coffey]

This like.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, in which case how can Agamemnon do this later on if you.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, yeah, stuff like that.

[Richard Osman]

Exactly. Yeah. I thought Paul Shane as Agamemnon, I thought no.

[Therese Coffey]

Yes. Well, we're going back to Bronze Age Greece, of course. So we have to say, is any

[Marina Hyde]

of this that realistic?

[Therese Coffey]

I don't think they.

[Marina Hyde]

They would have looked like Matt Damon and Tom.

[Therese Coffey]

I've seen the trailer. There's one big sort of trailer out and I don't think they would have looked like Matt Damon or Tom Holland.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

You know, and Tom Holland says, you know, my dad's coming home or something like that.

[Therese Coffey]

Again, I'm told they would have said it in Greek.

[Marina Hyde]

I don't. Again, I'm not the expert, but I'm told they would have said in Greek

[Richard Osman]

Tom Holland's dad is the stand up Dominic Holland.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

So that's unreal.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Because we know that Dominic Holland was.

[Marina Hyde]

This is why Michael Owen, the footballer cannot go to movies because everybody's pretending to do things.

[Richard Osman]

He's right.

[Marina Hyde]

This is right. Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

And I actually he could go and

[Marina Hyde]

perhaps talk Elon Musk down off his latest ledge about this.

[Therese Coffey]

Mel Gibson, I guess, would have done it in the original Greek.

[Marina Hyde]

We need to check in with that resurrection of Christ. Actually. That's just reminded me. But I'll.

[Richard Osman]

Yes.

[Marina Hyde]

Let me go and make some calls on that because I want to see how that's going.

[Therese Coffey]

The next thing that he's going to get very upset about is that Travis Scott has been cast as a sort of bard because.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. The rapper Travis Scott.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, because. Because it's poetry's like rap and it's.

[Marina Hyde]

Or something like that.

[Therese Coffey]

But we have, we haven't, you know, something.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

We haven't seen anything more.

[Marina Hyde]

It's a film and it's coming out crazy.

[Therese Coffey]

We haven't seen anything more than the trailer. But Musk has really gone off the deep end about this and of course all his sort of baby bros are posting about it. I see. You know that Kevin Sorbo who was

[Marina Hyde]

in Hercules, you know, completely accurate classical. Completely accurate classical piece.

[Therese Coffey]

He. You could have paid me to tank

[Marina Hyde]

this movie and I wouldn't have thought of this. There are always new ways to be found to Sorbo to tank movies.

[Richard Osman]

There's a guy, Matt Walsh, who's a commentator and he's talking about it and he. Do you want to know how he describes Christopher Nolan? The nerve of these men. Genuinely, who by all means, listen, stick to what you do, whatever it is. Elon Musk, genuinely, I know you started with a lot of money, but you're the richest guy in the world. Not without talent. This is not your industry. Okay? It is not your industry. Some people are going to be better than you at other things. This is definitely one of them. I know from childhood you desperately wanted to be people like Christopher Nolan, and you're not. And I know it burns you up. And now you're finally going, oh, my God, we can now stop. We've got some power over these people, but just let somebody else talented get on with things he says about Christopher Nolan. Yeah, he's almost. He's almost admitting to it here. He describes Christopher Nolan as technically talented, but a coward. Isn't that amazing? Listen, he knows where to point the camera, I'll give him that. Right? But a coward.

[Therese Coffey]

Unbelievable.

[Richard Osman]

Do you know what, Matt Walsh? When people are filling the multiplexes to see your movies, we will listen to your opinions about Christopher Nolan, okay? But he's earned his place where he is. Why do you think it is they feel they have to comment? Is it just the grift? Is it just that it plays well to their base?

[Therese Coffey]

I think someone like. It's different with Musk. I don't know. He's like poster who had to buy

[Marina Hyde]

the company so that he could be the primo shit poster.

[Therese Coffey]

And so all his posts are sort

[Marina Hyde]

of pushed right up the algorithm and

[Therese Coffey]

everyone agrees with him.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

I mean, I do think it's quite, sort of sad. Yeah. It is quite odd because they are the people who do spend their entire time saying celebrities should not be talking about anything other than, you know, should stay in their lane effectively. And there are times when I see celebrities say, oh, you know, I see another of Elon Musk's rockets has burst on launch or whatever it is. It's like, oh, I'm so sorry that

[Marina Hyde]

celebrity should shut up.

[Richard Osman]

Okay.

[Therese Coffey]

Sorry, love.

[Marina Hyde]

It's rocket science.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Because every one of your rockets would

[Therese Coffey]

blow up on them. And he's amazing at this thing. That company is amazing. The things they've done is they.

[Marina Hyde]

They caught a rocket with some tweezers.

[Richard Osman]

Okay.

[Therese Coffey]

And I get that sometimes they don't. They don't catch it and sometimes it

[Marina Hyde]

blows up on the launch pad. But in general, they are amazing.

[Richard Osman]

And I guess also there's scientists involved as well. But Christopher Nolan, there's lots of people on that set as well.

[Therese Coffey]

Technically brilliant scientists, but coward.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. Some of those guys. Do you know what? Why are they catching the rocket? That to me, is cowardly. Let it crash to earth.

[Marina Hyde]

Show it who was.

[Richard Osman]

But he's built this company. He's clearly better than everyone who tries to do what he does at what he does. Okay, that's great. But there must be something in childhood that means he constantly wants to be funny. He constantly thinks, if I made the Odyssey, I'd make it proper.

[Marina Hyde]

You're aware of the father.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, it's always. Do you think so? I was thinking of a tv. You know that when Sopranos came out and everyone thought it was funny, the idea of a mobster having a therapist.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Do you think that many of these. I was really thinking this the other day. Do you think that many of these tech billionaires have therapists?

[Therese Coffey]

No, but don't you remember the stupidest

[Marina Hyde]

idea that's ever been had for a podcast and that means something, as you

[Therese Coffey]

know, was Meghan and Harry's idea of, like, talking to worldly people like Putin

[Marina Hyde]

and saying things, you know, effectively sort of asking about their childhood, talking and talking and therapizing them, which, I mean, I'd watch it if they managed to do it. If you're telling me that Vladimir Putin's going to sit down with Meghan Harry, talk about their childhoods, if you don't think I'm keeping it locked on that, of course.

[Richard Osman]

But you can see, you can. Absolutely. I mean, they say the quiet bit out loud all the time, these tech titans, this envy they have for a certain sector of society, this desire to be funny, this desire to be liked in a creative way, this desire to take what it is they've been able to do in business and sort of come across as a personality who is likable and has some creative talent. But someone must be talking to them about this. Someone must be going, you know, it's okay. Look at what you've created, look at what you've achieved. You're the richest man in the world

[Therese Coffey]

and you're excellent at the space thing.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, maybe you're a cart jollibee.

[Therese Coffey]

You're.

[Marina Hyde]

You literally are a cultural embassy.

[Therese Coffey]

I'm so sorry. Your favorite books are Lord of the Rings, you know, the Fountainhead, Ayn Rand. It's like you're so basic, I can't even tell you. And that's fine because you're amazing at the space thing, and that's actually fine.

[Richard Osman]

You can't be non basic most parts of your life. You have to be basic in. In order to have the bandwidth to be good at the thing that you're good at.

[Therese Coffey]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

And you're. And also, you also have no idea of how anything. I mean, I can't even believe I'm having to slightly talk about this, but the way that works of art, this is 2,700, 2,800 years old.

[Marina Hyde]

How they are reinterpreted over time.

[Therese Coffey]

And it really doesn't matter if someone

[Marina Hyde]

said someone's got golden hair. You might have seen all different types of Shakespeare performed, all different interpretations. It's kind of what keeps them alive.

[Richard Osman]

Exactly that.

[Therese Coffey]

Certainly not the first one to have a non white. Helen of Troy. Orson Welles cast Arthur Kitt as Helen of Troy.

[Richard Osman]

Woke.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Was Orson Welles.

[Therese Coffey]

Woke, you idiot.

[Marina Hyde]

Musk. Do you know who he is?

[Therese Coffey]

Orson Welles found her in a Eartha Kitt who went on to.

[Marina Hyde]

This is really right at the start of Our Queen. Oh, really?

[Therese Coffey]

He found her in a lesbian drag bar in Paris. Again, Hal Woke.

[Marina Hyde]

That I think was run by one of Marlene Dietrich's exes.

[Richard Osman]

Wow.

[Therese Coffey]

And she was playing a man. Eartha Kitt was playing a man called Fred every night.

[Marina Hyde]

An underground sensation in the world of, you know, sort of after hours lesbian Paris.

[Therese Coffey]

And Orson Welles said she was the

[Marina Hyde]

most exciting woman on Earth. The most exciting woman on Earth was his quote.

[Therese Coffey]

And therefore when he did a stage thing, he got her to be Helen of Troy.

[Richard Osman]

That's amazing.

[Therese Coffey]

Yes. But was he woke?

[Marina Hyde]

I don't think so.

[Richard Osman]

Of course he wasn't.

[Therese Coffey]

This is a nonsense.

[Richard Osman]

He's an artist. Artists want to do interesting. Like the Christopher Nolan. When he decides to do the Odyssey, he's not thinking, I'm gonna do this exactly like the book. Right. And for lots of reasons. One, the book already exists. Two, this story's been told retold a million times. So he only goes anywhere near it if he can do something that tells us that story, but also tells us about the times we live in. That's the thing that interests him. To make an incredible spectacle, to make a piece of art, and to do something that is going to entertain audiences. Now, your starting point for that is not. Let's start on word one of the Odyssey and end on the final word and make sure everyone looks exactly like they're described. It's just not. There's not a single artist in the

[Therese Coffey]

history which is realistic. It's got a Cyclops in it. I mean, it's ridiculous. This is like when people have an

[Marina Hyde]

absolute meltdown about what can happen to Doctor who and you're like, I don't

[Therese Coffey]

know, he's got two hearts, he's an alien.

[Marina Hyde]

I mean, presumably quite a lot of things can happen.

[Therese Coffey]

But thinking of his cultural life, as I've said, we know he likes Atlas

[Marina Hyde]

Shrugged, we know he likes Lord of the Rings.

[Therese Coffey]

I mean, we could have got like

[Marina Hyde]

a really bad version of his AI to tell us this.

[Therese Coffey]

We know he was playing that game, Elden Ring.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

Which he was playing obsessively when he bought Twitter. Now that is now being made by

[Marina Hyde]

Alex Garland then filming it here.

[Therese Coffey]

They're filming it here.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I know.

[Therese Coffey]

Will it be satisfying to him? I do, actually. I think I've said this take on

[Marina Hyde]

this podcast before, but I've got a

[Therese Coffey]

theory about why guys like Elon Musk really, really like those historical things and those kind of weird fantasy worlds that are effectively just kind of just off versions of history. It's because women always get treated like

[Marina Hyde]

complete shit in them. Always.

[Therese Coffey]

But it's fine because that's how it was.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

It's a product of its times, even if that time is a fantasy time. So there were points with Game of Thrones where.

[Marina Hyde]

When it deviated from the book and

[Therese Coffey]

then when they were literally adding in rapes. I was thinking, I don't know, why

[Marina Hyde]

do people like this so much? I love Game of Thrones, but I think you have to be clear eyed about what's happening.

[Therese Coffey]

There's a particular form of, like, I'm really into this type of historical. This historical fantasy world. And this is a fantasy. I mean it. As I say, it's got Cyclops in. It's got all sorts of monsters in it. It's fantasy. So to really mind about the skin color.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

Is sort of extraordinary.

[Richard Osman]

They're also saying she's supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world. And you cannot tell me that Lupita Nyong' o is the most beautiful woman in the world. And Whoopi Goldberg said, mate, have you looked in a mirror? You got. You shouldn't be talking about looks.

[Therese Coffey]

Oh, she. Oh, she's wonderful. And she's. She's also. Can I just say, such a small part in this.

[Richard Osman]

But anyhow, I know that's the thing.

[Therese Coffey]

But it has nonetheless caught fire because of course, he owns the town square

[Marina Hyde]

and he puts himself right in the middle of the square.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And not my town.

[Therese Coffey]

I think you do have.

[Marina Hyde]

No, not.

[Therese Coffey]

You do have to keep things secret to some degree. And it's not even equivalent, but they really did it so successfully with Barbie, which is. No one really knew what it was. The pictures that had come off set were when. When they were shooting on location, when

[Marina Hyde]

they kind of appear in those kind of crazy bright clothes.

[Therese Coffey]

Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie in Venice beach. And it's in kind of in the real world. Because otherwise, for obvious reasons, it was all filmed in kind of control studio environments. Nobody knew about it. They kept the plot and that which was so unbelievably distinctive and amazing secret. And the stuff you'd seen was kind of pink and goofy, so no one really knew what it was going to be.

[Marina Hyde]

And when it came out and it was like, oh, my God, has someone, like, done a feminist Barbie wart?

[Therese Coffey]

Yes. Then all the pundits attacked it. But by then it was a juggernaut. And also it was really good. Which, let's hope, is the case with. I'm sure. Why wouldn't it be the case with the Odyssey? And even Fox News, who created Massive. Everyone, you know, all the online. Right, as usual, created massive hit pieces against it, but it couldn't stop it. And even Fox had to agree that it was really big in the red states and people were turning out for this film. So that's an interesting one. But they kept everything so completely secret. And in that case, it was about the tone, but it can have an effect on the bottom line. I talked to one person, a producer, and said, can any of this stuff? And they said, it's Christopher Nolan. So he's an entity unto himself. He brings people the cinemas in in a way that stars used to in old days. And he's bigger than a star. He is. That's. He will bring people out to see his films. And that is terrific. So again, we're slightly talking about a unicorn, but when they do have these pre backlashes, as it were, against a film that has yet to come out, it's casual. Yeah, A front lash. It can. It can depress turnout amongst casual audiences. They think there's a sort of culture war fatigue thing where people just say, oh, God, I haven't got the energy for it. Even though, don't worry, it's not a cult.

[Marina Hyde]

It's not even the Trojan War, It's. Don't worry. It's really. It's a journey home.

[Therese Coffey]

And there are times when it can really dominate the narrative. And if you look at what happened with Ghostbusters or with Little Mermaid, it just sort of took over and all female Ghostbusters got such a pasting that I think that was completely unfair. Yeah, I love that film, the. The Little Mermaid. I don't know, it's just a live action version of it. But they had such a backlash together. I mean, that should just be a gimme and it's just fine. And you go to cinema and watch the Little Mermaid, you know she's a mermaid.

[Richard Osman]

Yes.

[Marina Hyde]

Again, come on, please try and suspend your discipline belief that she could possibly be non white.

[Therese Coffey]

Doesn't really matter. So both those things were definitely affected

[Marina Hyde]

by the front lash.

[Therese Coffey]

So it is very hard to kill a great. It's very hard to kill a great if it's. If it. And I think that people will just

[Marina Hyde]

turn out for this also.

[Richard Osman]

It just, you know, the whole, the whole thing reminds me of how much easier the world is for people who are not conflict averse. As someone who's deeply conflict averse, you know, that's hard to monetize if you, if you do not mind being in an argument the whole time. My God, there are pots of money you can pick up in this world, aren't they? It's like insane. But again, that's, it's almost like his

[Therese Coffey]

full time job is arguing and then he's just got this bizarre side hustle

[Marina Hyde]

as an unbelievably leading kind of space aeronautics guy.

[Richard Osman]

But it's so weird. I mean, even, you know, this week, you know, again, he's having a go at Christopher Nolan. Now he's having a go at Anthropic a couple of months ago. And now he's back in business with them because Grok doesn't seem to be working. So, you know, he's now sort of teaming up with Anthropic. It's almost like he doesn't mean almost everything he says.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And you just think, well, they just. Then just don't say it. Just do the good things that you do.

[Therese Coffey]

I do think he means the race stuff. I think he has certainly made many comments that would appear to be racist. But he wrote something recently on his

[Marina Hyde]

platform which he even. He deleted, which I find.

[Therese Coffey]

I know it was like in the middle of the night.

[Marina Hyde]

I don't even know if he keeps normal hours. I assume he doesn't. In the compound with all the baby mothers and he wrote bitches money, no taxes party.

[Therese Coffey]

That party was really so unclear.

[Marina Hyde]

I was like, this is like a social gathering. In which case I'll live with it. Or is this a political party that optimizes for the other three line items?

[Richard Osman]

What were they getting?

[Marina Hyde]

Bitches money, no taxes party money and

[Richard Osman]

no taxes are sort of the same thing really, aren't they?

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, I mean, you couldn't argue with

[Marina Hyde]

it because you're taking it down by the. Taking it down by the money.

[Richard Osman]

And it's certainly a think piece.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, yeah, I think that was it.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, whether anyone's making a Film of that in 300 years time, I don't know.

[Therese Coffey]

It's between 2,720 800 years old.

[Richard Osman]

Whether someone's making a film of that in 2,800 years time, I don't know. But it's. It's a thing.

[Marina Hyde]

I've seen actually quite a lot of films with that plot line.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

So it's quite. It's possible there will be stories written, but maybe. Yeah, but he deleted it, so I guess he doesn't have the copy.

[Richard Osman]

So what do we conclude? We conclude it's just. It's just weird. It's just weird that they have to have an opinion on all of this.

[Therese Coffey]

You don't have if you're gonna make

[Marina Hyde]

everyone else stay out of their things. Which by the way, I don't mind people talking whatever they like. But do be aware that your opinions are not particular.

[Therese Coffey]

They're boring and they're stupid.

[Richard Osman]

But also they can't have therapists. There's no way, there's no way that Zuckerberg and Musk sit down once a fortnight with someone wise to talk to them about their childhood and talk to them about why they are, how they are.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, I mean I'm quite a big believer in pushing it all down, you know.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. Oh, I'm certain of that. Do you know that comes across.

[Marina Hyde]

So maybe, you know, they're in the elder pushing it down.

[Therese Coffey]

I mean, I don't know where you'd

[Marina Hyde]

start with that father. With him.

[Richard Osman]

I mean I would write a show though about a billionaires therapist. That's good because they have someone for everything. Like they have full time staff for, you know, physical stuff. You know, they have chefs, they have everything. You would think maybe that they would have like an on staff therapist, but then maybe you get institutionalized and you get Stockholm syndrome and then the therapist just turns into AI and tells them what they want to do.

[Therese Coffey]

That person has power of a typ.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And they don't want anyone else to have power.

[Therese Coffey]

No.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

No, I mean they have to be

[Marina Hyde]

the top of the. The old org chart.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. Maybe they do have a therapist.

[Marina Hyde]

Maybe.

[Richard Osman]

Maybe they do. If they do. By the way, that's a really bad therapist also has terrible opinions. I mean really. What, what are you doing? That's a, that's. That's a therapist who's not a fan of Christopher Nolan.

[Marina Hyde]

Shall we take a break? And after which we will be talking about Snookers.

[Richard Osman]

Is that this big break show you were talking about? Yeah, I've not heard of it.

[Marina Hyde]

I Think you'd like it.

[Richard Osman]

Okay.

[Therese Coffey]

This episode is brought to you by Lloyds. Now. I love it when characters are part of a club. You wouldn't know anything about that, would you, Richard?

[Richard Osman]

The Thursday Murder Club in some ways reminds me of the A Team.

[Therese Coffey]

I would now like to map each

[Marina Hyde]

of those characters onto the A team and feel I probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's not even close.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And Ron is howling Mad Murdoch.

[Therese Coffey]

Well, there are definite perks to being in a club. Just ask the members of Club Lloyd because with Club Lloyds, you can bank on Lloyds to give you more. Wherever you are, if you join Club

[Richard Osman]

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They've got an annual coffee club and

[Marina Hyde]

gourmet society membership, which would be mine.

[Richard Osman]

And also something that the Thursday Meadow Club would enjoy very, very much indeed. To top it all off, you have fee free spending abroad, which means wherever you are, you won't be charged by Lloyds to use your debit card when you're traveling. Now, joining this club costs five pounds per month, but that is refunded in any month that you pay. £2,000 into your account now is a

[Therese Coffey]

club that's worth being part of. Check out Club Lloyds today. You'll need to be a UK resident and aged 18 or over to apply.

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[Marina Hyde]

Welcome back everybody with breaking news.

[Richard Osman]

Our lovely producer, Joey. We were just looking into whether Elon Musk has ever had therapy. He said this in 2024 just in case we're in doubt. He's said put. Never went to therapy on my gravestone. I mean. Okay, okay. He then, by the way, goes on to say, and this. I don't know if the two are connected. It feels like there's just a rage of horses in my mind.

[Marina Hyde]

Constantly put a rage of horses on his.

[Richard Osman]

Rage of Horses is good, Elon. That's a good bit of writing.

[Therese Coffey]

That is a great collective now.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, yeah. To be fair.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, to be fair, you didn't know you were doing it.

[Richard Osman]

But I would.

[Marina Hyde]

If you post that many times, eventually you're gonna write one good tweet.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, that's true. But, yeah, I'd like to explore his relationship with weakness. Yeah, I think that would be an interesting thing to talk about.

[Therese Coffey]

What a shame that Meghan and Harry

[Marina Hyde]

podcast series never happened. I would have very, very much enjoyed it.

[Richard Osman]

I would have loved that. Now, now, talking of royalty.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Okay. There are often reboots on television, and the particular show which people have said for years and years and years, when are they gonna reboot? This has just been rebooted. Big Break is back. So Big Break, which was a huge show from 1991 through to 2002. I would have sworn it started.

[Therese Coffey]

That's good.

[Richard Osman]

Wow. Okay. I'm not gonna explain any more of it.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, you are.

[Richard Osman]

That's a short item.

[Marina Hyde]

I'm having a drink, so you're gonna have to.

[Richard Osman]

That's good. 200 odd episodes presented by Jim Davidson and the wonderful late John Virgo, who

[Marina Hyde]

was the royalty in the reference rather than Jim Davison.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. I think the format was the royalty. Yeah. Really?

[Marina Hyde]

But Virgo was so amazing.

[Richard Osman]

And by the way, I will be talking about royalties and formats in the context of this as well, so it's all coming together. But, yes, John Virgo was. Was royalty in this context. So, yeah, Big Break is coming back. And there was a lot of hoopla about it used to be Jim Davidson and John Virgo is now Paddy McGinnis.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Who never saw a reboot he didn't like. And Stephen Hendry, the coolest man in the world, in my opinion. Certainly one of them. And the announcement has been well received, I think, because people love Paddy And Stephen Hendry is very, very good as well. So I think I. I think it will be good. I just wanted to go through a little bit about what a weird show Big Break is. Yeah. Where it came from, why it came about when it came about, why it is coming back and the job that it is going to do for the BBC because it's not the job that people have been writing about that it's going to do, that's for sure. So big break comes about. Invented sort of in the late 80s because Bullseye had been such a big hit. And bullseye is a simple thing. You've got a darts player and you've got a quizzer and. And something that the quiz does sort of affects what the dark player does, and something that the dark player does sort of affects what the quizzer does and there's prizes. And, you know, snooker was absolutely enormous, you know, that mid-80s onwards era, it was so huge. At some point somebody was going to do bullseye for snooker. Now, for years and years and years, it was credited to Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp, but they then were sued by a cabbie called Roger Medcalf from Birmingham and had to pay him 100 grand and give him a third of the format as well.

[Therese Coffey]

Really?

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. I know normally that's not the case, right. Because what had happened was Roger Metcalfe and Mike Kemp, who were friends, had said, oh, we should do a Bullseye, but for snooker. And so they had this idea. Mike Kemp knew Terry Mardell. Now, Terry Mardell had just had a big hit with Bob's Full House, which essentially. Bingo, but as a quiz show. And so Mike Kemp goes, I've got a friend who knows how to format a TV show. Terry Mardell takes this in, looks at it, he says, it was an absolute mess, but we turned it into something and the BBC loved it and bought it. And so it became a TV show and it was credited to Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp and Medkoff, many years later. Sid. But I did come up with that with Mike and we took it to Terry and so he's got the money. It's good. It sounds like no one was really trying to con anyone. It was just one of those.

[Therese Coffey]

I see. When you said a cab driver, I

[Marina Hyde]

thought that he had said it to them.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, in a cab? I don't think so.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, can I do a sidebar?

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

On Always, Bullseye had been a hit.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Big Break is a huge hit. So they decide, okay, well, let's do this again. We're going to do this for golf. And they did one series. I remember seeing it at the time and thinking, this is really unacceptably awful. They did a show called Full Switch with Jimmy Tarbuck, where it was.

[Therese Coffey]

I remember that.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, he did one series.

[Therese Coffey]

It's the old pro. I mean, they're all pro am shows,

[Marina Hyde]

basically, you know, and golf, obviously, you would think would be. Or could, in the right hands, be made for.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, well, they had sort of, you know, a very early computer screen thing where you hit a ball at just back before that technology really worked.

[Therese Coffey]

This is really coming out of a

[Richard Osman]

memory hole, a weird putting green. Their version of the trick shot was

[Therese Coffey]

a sort of big screen in studio putting green, right?

[Richard Osman]

Yes, in the studio putting green. This big contraption where you just tapped the ball into it and it went around lots of things and then went in the hole. So there was no, never any jeopardy. That lasted for one series anyway. That's just. That's how TV works. Bullseye begets big break and that begets full swing and then you never have to do any of those ever again. So BBC are bringing it back and people have been trying to pitch this for a few years. I've been pitched it before because, you know, because I love snooker and people know that. And I, when I was. It was mentioned to me, I was like, I love snooker. This is not the show show. I would not do this show very well. It's not something that I would be particularly good at. And that was, I think, for five, because five have now got lots of the snooker. But the BBC have brought it back. But brought it back in a very interesting way. It is for BBC2 daytime. Nothing is for BBC2 daytime anymore. Six o', clock, you get house of Games and stuff like that. But there is nothing now in that kind of 2pm till 6pm so it's for BBC2 is for daytime and what it is, and it's an object lesson. And then everything has to do a number of different jobs. Now, if you want it to be commissioned, what they are doing, they're doing 20 episodes of it and it will do a number of things for them. Firstly, it will be a program that they can just put out. See how it does. Just like in the old days where you'd commission a program and I wonder if people will watch it and if they do, you put it out again. So they will do that and if people love it, they can do a primetime version of it. But what they're also doing is doing it. So every time. Time the snooker is on. And the BBC have just signed a deal to 2032 for the World Championships, the Masters and the UK Open, which are the Triple Crown events, they have this stuff absolutely ready to go. They'll have these 20 episodes. They'll probably do another 20. They'll probably do another 20 dot it just means when the snooker comes on, which does really good business for BBC2. They have this thing that they can play throughout breaks in, in the frames, which is a big deal for them, and then can sit on iplayer forever. And every time the snooker is on and people are interested in snookers at like people get interested in tennis, every time Wimbledon's on, they have this thing on the iplayer. So it's one of those ones. It's not going to be expensive. They certainly. They used to film four a day. They probably, they probably will again. But it will be an accompaniment to their snooker programming, which is nice for them. It'll be a lovely thing that sits on iplayer and if people like it, suddenly they will have a hit on their hands and they can put it on Saturday night. But it's, it's. I, I find it such a fascinating commission because it's not like any other.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

As I say, no one's commissioned anything for BBC Daytime for. About, for BBC two Daytime for about eight years and they just haven't. And now suddenly we've got one of the biggest brands in British TV sitting there with big, big, big name hosts and I like to see their chemistry. I think Stephen Hendry is really funny. Yeah, he really is. And Paddy is great with people.

[Marina Hyde]

I would really like to see it.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. So Terry Mardell is very interesting. Who came up with this. There are other names, but, but Terry was a standup comic and back in those eras in the world of light entertainment, there were lots of standup comics who sort of started writing gags for hosts. Did warm Up. Terry Mardell did warm up. His brother Wally Mardell did warm up as well. So Terry Mardell not only came up with Bob's Full House, but he was also the warm up for Bob's Full House as well. Had a big hit show in America called Sweethearts, which was a sort of a dating show. But the show we did immediately after Big Break had interesting lineage to it. So he had this hit with Big Break and suddenly America gets interested in Bob's Full House. So Terry Mardell goes out to Hollywood, signs up with William Morris, the biggest agency. First person he meets is a junior, a guy called Mark Itkin, who did not stay junior for long, is fated. Out in Hollywood, America decides to do their version of Bob's Full House. So he goes from Big Break with Jim Davidson and John Virgil to the American version of Bob's Full House. And there's a clue in the name here, which is called Trump Card. And it is filmed at Trump Castle Casino. In Las Vegas. And the first episode, absolutely front and center in it is Donald Trump. But, yeah. So Terry Mardell went straight from pot. As many balls as you can to the future President of the United States.

[Therese Coffey]

Wow.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

Oh, I really need to see an

[Marina Hyde]

episode of Trump Card.

[Richard Osman]

Of Trump Card. Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

That's not one of the casinos you somehow can drive to bankruptcy.

[Richard Osman]

Yes.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, it is one of those.

[Richard Osman]

Absolutely. Was. Yeah. It's now the. I think it's the Golden Nugget now, I think. Yeah. So, yeah, big break is back. I've read a couple of things saying, oh, it's just going to be trick shots, which is not. It's going to be exactly. Pretty much exactly the same as the previous one. Quizzes and potting would be a bit different. And genuinely, I think. How lovely. You know, I'm looking forward to seeing it already. And. But the reason they're commissioning is because it gives. It's a really great thing to go with their commitment to, and so they might as well have a punt at it. And if I was Paddy, I think Paddy's the perfect person for it. I would not have been, but he definitely is. And Hendry will be great, too, even though he's on the first ever, ever episode of Big Break. Stephen Hendry, I see. Yeah. Doing very badly as well. I'm sure he'll be the first to admit. Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. That's really fun. Okay, well, I'm looking forward to that, and that's been great to see how that works.

[Therese Coffey]

We're now going to talk about the

[Marina Hyde]

Cannes Film Festival, which is happening now.

[Therese Coffey]

You'll have a film festival, in the case of Cannes Film Fe, films from all the way around the world are submitted. The festival programmers pick a small number, some of which are shown in competition, some out of competition, and those are. The ones in competition, are judged. And at the same time, there are lots of other screenings of things not all finished, some partially finished independent stuff that needs more funding or needs distribution or whatever. So it's sort of an art festival

[Marina Hyde]

and sort of a kind of meat market for films.

[Therese Coffey]

And in Cannes, they have a festival

[Marina Hyde]

director who's been there 25 years.

[Therese Coffey]

He's called Thierry Fremer because it's France.

[Marina Hyde]

They call him the general delegate.

[Richard Osman]

Of course they do.

[Therese Coffey]

You know, and he's got lots of views about things like he won't show Netflix films if they. Because of the theatrical window. This is the business. Yeah. Well, the French are so committed to. Well, if you go, you know, if you walk past a cinema in Paris, they have so many, you know, they've got a real commitment to showing French films and they have obviously a very long theatrical window and they're very committed to kind of keeping their art kind of non globalized to some degree that a percentage of it.

[Richard Osman]

They love French films in France over there. They call them films, right?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. I mean, it's mad.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

I don't even know what they've got.

[Richard Osman]

Like, I even like French food in France. They call it.

[Marina Hyde]

They call it food.

[Richard Osman]

Food.

[Therese Coffey]

It's so odd, I think I couldn't

[Marina Hyde]

get my head around while I was there.

[Therese Coffey]

The thing about the Cannes Film Festival

[Marina Hyde]

is that it sort of signified and I know you're thinking, were the Oscars not 15 minutes ago? And in a way they were because they were in March.

[Therese Coffey]

But it sort of in this period in May signified the start of the awards campaign and the sort of prestige. Also you would have maybe a big splashy premiere of a Hollywood film that's not in competition, but it's kind of

[Marina Hyde]

like, oh, here we are, we're going to show a Star wars film or something else.

[Therese Coffey]

And you might. And you might also have people such as Quentin Tarantino showing a big film and then it will win one of their big prizes. And you can sort of feel like the juggernaut begins. But this year is notable for something quite shocking. There are no US studio films and even people like Focus Features A24 are not taking any films.

[Richard Osman]

They should call it the Cant Film Festival.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, it's different in French, say. And another thing I couldn't get my head around.

[Marina Hyde]

So it's.

[Therese Coffey]

They haven't even got a sort of splashy premiere tied to release. I mean, they've definitely not got the Odyssey, which we know that's coming out. They haven't got the Spielberg film. That's all these people have big ties to Cannes. They haven't got the Alexander in your retail film with Tom Cruise, Todd Digger that's coming out later in the year. They haven't got any of these things. So why is the question. And the answer really is because of risk. It's May. The studios are now so in a kind of complet connected online world. It is so different. I mean, I've talked to people who take things to Cannes and just said it is so stressful, you know, immediately whether your thing that you've lavished all your love and attention, whatever and money, crucially, which we'll get to has worked. You can just feel it. It's in the air. It's in the response. People are just saying now that's not going to run. And it's, you know, it's May and

[Marina Hyde]

you somehow got to get your stars out there.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

If they're on an awards campaign all

[Therese Coffey]

the way till next March.

[Richard Osman]

So it's a tough school.

[Therese Coffey]

So, yeah, studios mostly want to keep their awards mov to the final third of the year, so that you might. The Venice Film Festival is in September, so that's better. But if you look at last year, you know, there was real potential for damage. Films that people can. Films that people thought were going to be big, like Die My Love or Eddington, they sort of. Something went wrong and people thought, oh,

[Marina Hyde]

these aren't going to work.

[Therese Coffey]

And there's something about the critics, the

[Marina Hyde]

French critics particularly, but also lots of the critics, by the way.

[Therese Coffey]

Everything gets a sort of, as you

[Marina Hyde]

know, a ridiculously long standing ovation, which is completely.

[Therese Coffey]

Be completely meaningless. The critics, however, are meaningful and they can be quite harsh and it's a really uncontrollable environment.

[Richard Osman]

So it used to be that the absolute key thing in all these industries is buzz and this was absolutely the place to get early buzz. But now it's gorgeous, isn't it?

[Therese Coffey]

You've got the closet, you've got the thing. It's. It's Cannes. It costs a million to take a film to can.

[Richard Osman]

That's just the popcorn.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

You've got to stage the premiere, you've got to take the stars and all the. Around them, you've got to have all their travel accommodation, you've got to have the marketing around it, because it can't just sort of happen. There have to be other stuff happening.

[Richard Osman]

Jet ski trips.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, yeah, the various things.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, get me off this yacht, helicopters, that sort of thing.

[Therese Coffey]

But there's so much now that can go wrong. If you look at the Berlin Festival earlier this year, where lots of journalists were asking stars to reveal their positions

[Marina Hyde]

on Israel and Gaza, you know, why

[Therese Coffey]

would you not retreat, which is what they're all doing now, into an arena where it is far more. That's far more protective of your talent and you're much more able to control. And your overall investment in a film, which is quite an expensive activity, is protected. So it's all about control, you know, and to some extent you'll say, oh, well, maybe then these festivals can become what they were, which is that. And that's what people, you know, because

[Marina Hyde]

they have to find a positive do

[Therese Coffey]

they become things that surface great international films and celebrate European and International films. But actually they do need the studios, but they're going to have to find a way. Way of dealing with something that you can't. Something can't derail it.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

The one thing that's in their favor is that stars have to be beyond

[Marina Hyde]

persuaded that they don't want this to say.

[Therese Coffey]

Wants their movie to start in either Cannes or Venice. And they sort of prefer Cannes because it's just.

[Marina Hyde]

It's just the sort of. In their head, the primo brand.

[Therese Coffey]

There's no particular reason for that, but like.

[Richard Osman]

But legacy.

[Therese Coffey]

Yeah, legacy.

[Richard Osman]

They grew up watching people at the Cannes.

[Therese Coffey]

And then you have to try and dissuade them of the fact that they

[Marina Hyde]

really, really want to be put in

[Therese Coffey]

an uncontrolled environment where their film could be. It might not be, since the film won't be probably coming out till October, that you don't want to be put in that environment where you could say the wrong thing or you could just not say anything and your silence would

[Marina Hyde]

be violence or whatever it is.

[Richard Osman]

It's usually pretty easy to persuade actors to do something they don't want to do.

[Therese Coffey]

Yes. But I think the fact that. That everybody has managed to do it this time around, you know, and what they do do when they. When they bring them out in a different way and they don't go via these big festivals, is that they bring them out and they have. You know, there's a controlled access. And I think there's a fundamental difference between allowing critics to see the film and just say what they think about them, and people honestly expecting people to have a view on every little piece of. Or big piece of global politics or everything that's going on in a country at the time, or everything. To have making everyone have a view of this in a press conference in your film about whatever it is, then

[Richard Osman]

you've gotta hear what Elon Musk has got to say about it.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah, Just ask them about rockets.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, but the basic. Yeah, the basic principle is if you really care about something, you spend a long time on it and you're worried about whether it's good or not. Do not choose the first group of people you show it to to be French, because they will not be polite if they don't like it.

[Therese Coffey]

Well, I mean, all the international critics kind of. There's a sort of pride in lots of that, but it's just a long haul. The award season now is. So those campaigns go on for nine

[Marina Hyde]

months, and if you start now, they're sort of going on for 10 months.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, but, but, yeah. So they're trying to control for while, you know, the film is in your screening rooms and your edits and with your pr, you can control, control, control, control. The second it is out in the world, whatever you planned, whatever momentum you planned, that can be derailed and so try and derail it as late as possible in the process.

[Therese Coffey]

Yes. Or it's less likely to be direct. They're quite sort of down and dirty, the festivals, in some way, and you've got lots and lots of rooms and people are sitting on a stage and people could ask you anything. But I just think it's become a matter of risk. It's so expensive to do all these things, never mind the cost of taking it there. The film itself is so expensive. And it's. Whether you just want to expose it to being torn down, in many cases, eight months before release, never mind before

[Marina Hyde]

the award ceremony or whatever it is

[Therese Coffey]

you think you're going for. Leave that to one side. It's the idea that you just can't. You just can't sustain it off that and it sort of falls off the screen.

[Richard Osman]

I'd rather launch in Venice.

[Marina Hyde]

People I know who go to them

[Therese Coffey]

say it's so much that can.

[Marina Hyde]

Is awful and it's so much better.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Therese Coffey]

And it's a.

[Marina Hyde]

It's a much more lovely affair. Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

We've covered a lot of ground this week, haven't we? Can we both. I think we're both gonna give the same recommendation this week, which we did last week with Legends, which, by the way, have now finished and is even better than I said it was last week. But this week, Rivals is back. We can't recommend anything else other than that.

[Marina Hyde]

Actually.

[Therese Coffey]

No, I can.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay, first of all, yes, we recommend Rivals. I will recommend the video for the new Harry Styles single, Dance no More. There's a lot of dancing in it.

[Richard Osman]

What happens in it?

[Marina Hyde]

A lot of dancing.

[Richard Osman]

Okay. But you like it.

[Marina Hyde]

I like it.

[Richard Osman]

Okay. I'm going to be doing that as soon as we. We finish. Not dancing. Watching Harry Styles dance.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. You can't compete.

[Richard Osman]

I don't dance after. I'm no Dominic Sandbrook, but I don't dance immediately after. A podcast.

[Therese Coffey]

Right. We will be back on Thursday with a Q and A, then tomorrow, the first in a special bonus series.

[Richard Osman]

I'm very excited about this.

[Therese Coffey]

It's so cool. Okay. I am talking to James Kanagasoriam, who

[Marina Hyde]

is a brilliant pollster, brilliant at politics, but also.

[Therese Coffey]

Also because he's plugged into all the

[Marina Hyde]

currents and opinions and things that shape our culture.

[Therese Coffey]

We're going to be talking, I'm doing a series with him, talking to him about six absolutely fascinating topics and the one that's coming out tomorrow and everyone

[Marina Hyde]

can listen to this. This first one is about trad wives and tradwife content.

[Richard Osman]

Amazing.

[Marina Hyde]

It's really interesting. There's so much stuff in there that

[Therese Coffey]

you will like anyway.

[Marina Hyde]

Richard.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, so that's going to be for the members but the first one just to because it's absolutely for everybody, see if you can like it. And I have yet to hear it but I've heard you talk about it and I'm very, very excited to hear it as well.

[Marina Hyde]

It's really cool.

[Therese Coffey]

Okay, so if you want to join, It's Therese is entertainment.com Everyone can listen to that tomorrow. Otherwise, see you on Thursday.

[Richard Osman]

See you on.

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