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- [00:00]
A
The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, the moment someone becomes properly famous, they stop traveling as a person and they start traveling as a situation. And yes, I am talking about the world of entourages.
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B
It's amazing anytime you do a TV show, when someone properly famous comes on, you can just have a spread bet as to how many people they're gonna bring with them.
- [00:20]
A
Most people don't actually need a bodyguard and a fixer and a straw lady, but not having to start from scratch every single time you get in contact with someone is actually undeniably appealing.
- [00:30]
B
So Octopus Energy, you know, anytime, ever, ring any company, you start from scratch right from the beginning. Again with Octopus Energy, they recognize your number and that goes through to a very, very small team of around 10 people who are there to deal with you. So you will almost certainly be dealing with someone who you have dealt with before. That's the Octopus Energy entourage that they have built around you.
- [00:54]
A
A great satisfaction not having to tell your story for new every single time, which I think most major celebrities also feel.
- [01:02]
C
This episode is brought to you by beer 52. A good international squad needs balance, depth and variety. So does a case in the fridge. With an incredible month of football ahead of us, our friends at Beer52 have expertly curated a case of eight outstanding beers from eight different countries. We're talking Germany, the USA, Argentina, and of course, a bit of home representation with England and Scotland. So, and the best part? It's free. Go to beer52.comfootball and just cover £5.95 postage to get your free beers. Now inside you'll get crisp lagers, juicy pale ales and rich, creamy stouts. Plus tasty snacks and Ferment magazine. If dark beers aren't your thing, you can choose the light case instead. It's your squad, after all. After the first box, it carries on as a subscription. That's £29.95 every 28 days. However, there's no minimum commitment and you can cancel after your free box. So that's beer52.com football to claim your free case of beers.
- [02:07]
A
Ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play? You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit Red Bull.com BrightSummerAhead to learn more. See you this summer. Hello and welcome to this Episode of the Rest is Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde.
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B
And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina.
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A
Hello, Richard. How are you?
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B
I'm very, very well. Should we get straight on?
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A
We should. We've got a lot of questions. We've got. We're going to start with the Kylie documentary.
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B
I love the Kylie documentary.
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A
Yes, I know you love the Kylie documentary. And Miranda Reynold and various others actually want to know. Watching the Kylie Netflix documentary, one of the most striking things is all the incredible use of archive footage. It made me wonder who's capturing all of that material at the time and who was thinking about its future value. Is there a now a more conscious effort to preserve those moments properly, knowing they could become hugely valuable years later?
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B
It's very true, actually. There's amazing archive in that. And I'm always amazed sometimes when you watch stuff from that kind of era and there's lots of archive, because it wasn't an era where we were going around with mobile phones and filming everything. It was the last era when we weren't doing that. And I think in any film, who stumbles across. That's why you can do a three parter about Kylie, because you discover that that exists. If you're Asif Kapadia or someone, your whole job is you take stuff that was on television or on film and you put all that together. But if you can find a subject who has unseen personal footage, that makes for an incredible documentary because you really see a human side of that. We talked to Michael Hart, who's the director and editor of this. Congratulations, Michael, brilliant job and thank you for replying as well. And he said a lot of it. A lot of the footage you see on that was taken by Kylie's brother Brendan. There's lots of it as well that Kylie's done herself. And there's stuff with, you know, Kylie and Jason on holidays, but it's really kind of up close and personal stuff. But he said, yes, they were filming it. I think they were filming it in sort of the same way that lots of families just film things.
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A
Yeah, it was family. It's family home movies, as it were.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I'm sure now everything is so cynically preserved. But there was an innocence then. But I don't think you're doing it.
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B
I think that's right. I'm absolutely certain a bit of them were thinking, something extraordinary is happening in our family. Something extraordinary is happening to our sister. It would be nice to document this, but I think not. So we could Do a documentary on Netflix in 20 years time.
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A
It says that the most footage stops becoming useful once the smartphone comes along because people are so aware of being filmed and they're performing and you don't have the sense that, that you're just being given a backstage glimpse. It's much more like it's a performance.
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B
But funnily enough, lots and lots of bands have lots of footage of themselves, I think because it's quite boring being in a band. And if you're a musician, usually you have a slightly technical bent as well. So there's usually somebody, you know suede for years. And there was a very good suede documentary made by Mike Christie, which is on. On sky. And Simon the drummer had just filmed everything for years and years and years. And you know, I think lots of bands have someone like that to pass
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A
the time because there's a lot of waiting.
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B
Well, I think also, you know, you're living through sort of a golden era with friends and it's. And you're doing something that you never imagined you would be doing and it's sort of extraordinary and you want to document that. And so long as there's one person in your band or in your entourage or in your crew who is doing that, then that footage exists. But I do think Adam Curtis's worries aside, I mean, the documentaries they're going to be making in 15 years time about stuff that's happening now, I mean the footage is going to be insane. And so it's just in terms of. But yeah, maybe it's all, it's all kind of.
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A
Maybe it's all been put out there. That's the thing. People are making a documentary. Ordinary people who are not remotely famous make documentaries about their lives every single day and put it on Tick Tock or shorts or whatever it is.
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B
I've also said it's a. Have a business idea, which is, you know, if you go to a school nativity play that. A school nativity play is probably the most covered theatrical production in the whole of history because you've essentially got an ISO camera on every single performer, including in the course, including every single one of the sheep, every single action. Everyone's coverage is done, it's been covered by an individual camera. So you just get all that footage together and you imagine the edit of a nativity play. Every single reaction shot you want is already there. No retakes, you've got everything. Have you got Shepherd 7 just at the end of this line? Oh yeah, I've got Shepherd 7. Shepherd 7's dad has recorded it.
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A
Very, very high production values company where everyone pulls their footage and then you
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create a supercut of. Yeah. Of children's Nativity Place. It feels like that feels like a multi billion dollar industry.
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A
This is like your one about removing tattoos. Yes. I mean, you would be very diversified if you pursued all these plans.
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B
What was my thing about removing tattoos?
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A
That would make a lot of money. If you've developed a thing faultlessly and remove tattoos.
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B
Oh, that's true. But that feels like something I couldn't do because I would have to work out how to do that.
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A
I thought I'd love to see you in the gallery on under 50 and bring up the Shepherd. Yes, I would actually just like to
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B
watch that, but thank you so much, Michael Hart. I know we've recommended the Kylie documentary before, but if you haven't seen it, really, really is terrific stuff. But yeah, the archive stuff, it really, really makes it because it feels very real and personal. Funnily enough, Michael Hart is saying that Kylie had seen almost none of the footage before the final edit because again, like, lots of stuff we film, we don't watch back, you know, especially if we're sort of on a tour and people are filming and filming. So it was the first time she'd seen a lot of that footage. The Paul McCartney man on the Run documentary about his time with Wings, with Linda and the beautiful place up in Scotland. So we're watching this thing and it's beautiful, but loads and loads of home video stuff. Again, there's always someone hanging around a band who's filming stuff. But so many people were sort of just turning and watching Paul watching, because he's watching, you know, himself and, you know, that's. I love all those documentaries now. Always do the. They show people the footage of them at the time and watch their reactions. I love all that, but I can't remember where I was going with that. But that's the end of that question. Thank you so much, Miranda. Chloe Wright has a question for you. Marina, I know you've had prep time on this cause I thought you would absolutely love it. Chloe says, after the success of the BBC's the Other Bennett Sister, what overlooked character from a classic novel would you like to see get their own show? That, Chloe, is a great question.
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A
It's a brilliant question. And I obsessed about it to the point where I had to stop myself obsessing about it, because the Other Bennet
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sister essentially takes a very, very minor
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A
character, Mary Bennet, the sort of least developed of all the Bennet sisters in
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B
Pride and Prejudice and imagines a whole universe for her.
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A
We've recommended this show before, but it's brilliant. It's on iplayer and they're actually saying, oh, there's lots of people that we can do. They are actually saying the producers of that Bad Wolf are saying there's lots of other people that we can sort of draw out of the shadows of these books. And obviously, famously, this has been done with lots of, you know, like, Rosencran and Guildenstern are dead. There's so many Shakespearean ones you could do. I was trying to think, what other ones have I actually read that were really obviously the wide Salgat OC Jean Reese's novel about Mrs. Rochester, you know, like her sort of prequel to Jane Eyre and the Flashman novels. I mean, Flashman is in Tom Browne's school days, the George MacDonald Fraser Flashman books. Flashman's the bully. And you know that line that people say, oh, all villains are just victims whose stories haven't yet been told. Flashman becomes the hero and he has these amazing swashbuckling adventures. But thinking of ones that haven't been done, I did a top three. I don't know what I'm now doing. You see, you've broken me.
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B
Oh, here we go. Literally, everyone's got their fingers crossed here at number three. There we go.
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A
That's a pleasant surprise, I thought. Although she's not that minor, but there's something about her that's brilliant. In Portrait of a Lady, a Henry James novel, Isabel Archer's friend Henrietta Stackpole, who's actually sort of amazing because it's. Whatever it is, it's the late 1800s and she is an example of the new woman. She is a reporter for the New York Interviewer, and she's so sort of modern and she's got great repartee. I would like to hear more from Henrietta Sackpole, I have to say, but she's not a tiny part. So I'm thinking, like, okay, these people who have really small parts, I thought one someone I've always really been fascinated by in the Great Gatsby is Owl Eyes. And we see him so little. He. Nick Caro meets him in the library at one of Gatsby's parties. And he's the one who says, look at this whole library. He went to trouble of getting all these books, but actually they haven't been cut, the pages haven't been cut. And so he sees things. And in some way, he's like a sort of analog for Nick Carraway. He's also the only other person who goes to the funeral. And I just find him fascinating. We don't know much about him, but he could see through it all as well. And maybe because actually Nick Carraway is much more involved, as you know how that character is. You're not quite sure how complicit he is in lots of these things. Our lives, I think would be interesting. But then because I recently reread the story Secret History, because I wanted to listen to the book club, our fellow girl hanger podcast, the book club's episode on it, which was brilliant. And I re read it and I thought there is a character in that which you will probably remember. She's called Judy Poovy. She's kind of maddening and very annoying. She's also Californian, but she's sort of like a comic foil really. In some ways. She's a costume design major eye roll. Okay. But actually, there's a really interesting sidebar on that, which I'm gonna get to in a second. Because there was a costume. There was only one costume design major at Bennington when Donna Tartt went there and she was someone called Michelle Matland. I don't think she's here. Anyway, she ended up being the costume designer on the succession.
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B
No.
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A
And so many people have said, I'm so sorry. This is barely disguised at all. JD Phoebe is her whatever. Who knows? But I'd forgotten at the end of the Secret History, as an epilogue of about what happens to some of these genuinely very minor characters. And Judy Poofy Goster becomes an aerobics instructor. Okay. So I'm like, okay. So I was thinking, okay, I've got to create a character here that I want to. It's the 90s. She's an aerobics queen in LA. Hopefully she hasn't given up all her bad habits, I. E. Major cocaine use. I sort of see Judy Povy solving crime. She's. Because she's funny. And I think she. By the way, I think she'd have worked it out in the Secret History. I think she'd have worked it out giving him a bit more time and a tiny bit more proximity. There's something savant about her. And I would see her solving crimes in a story of the week thing. Cause her idiotic monologues are very funny. But I actually, she is sharp and observant in other ways. And I sort of feel like she could be like a Zelig type or
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B
Forrest Gump type solver or something, moving through the world.
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A
Yeah. Move through the world somehow. Actually, her presence does resolve the crime. And then she's like, oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, sure.
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B
And the fact that she's a costume designer, maybe very good with disguising.
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A
She's an aerobics instructor, so I wouldn't be like her.
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B
But she was a costume design major.
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She was. But she becomes an aerobic.
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She's got the skills.
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A
Yeah. But if it's in the 90s, she's going to be at that interface of the kind of wellness culture. Also, lots of illicit activity in la. She could explore a particular type of that underground. And I just think it would be. I think it would be funny. And so that's. I would. That's my show for Judy Povy. It doesn't have to be a show. It could be a novel. But I slightly see it as a story of the week detective show.
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B
If Donna Tartt is listening or someone draws this to her attention, let's talk.
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A
Yeah. I can't even imagine the height of her eye roll. But however, Judy Poofy is a cult character, I promise you, people are obsessed with Judy Poofy.
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B
The least Donna could do is give you a meeting.
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A
Yeah. Just like, you know, I'd like to hear her now.
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B
My only rule in novels is when I. My favorite thing about writing novels is bringing new characters in. It's like, I'm not interested in ciphers or anything like that. They're never there to move the plot along. They're like, oh, who would be funny to move in? And I always, always go, could you write a novel about this character? Even if they got four lines, you think? I think there's in one of the books that say, if you. These two people home, what would that story be? And I always think that, what would the story be? What would the novel be with these characters in it? And that's, I always think, is a good writing tip as well.
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A
That's a very good. That's a very good way of doing it. Yeah.
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B
Shall we go to an advert?
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A
Let's go to an advert.
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B
I'd love that.
- [14:31]
A
This episode is brought to you by Lloyd's. Now, I love it when characters are part of a club. You wouldn't know anything about that, would
- [14:37]
B
you, Richard Thursday Motor Club, in some ways reminds me of the A Team.
- [14:40]
A
I would now like to map each of those characters onto the A team and feel I probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's not even close.
- [14:47]
B
That's exactly right. And Ron is howling Mad Murdoch.
- [14:50]
A
Well, there are definite perks to being in a club. Just ask the members of Club Lloyds, because with Club Lloyds, you can bank on Lloyds to give you more. Wherever you are, if you join Club
- [14:58]
B
Lloyds, there's all sorts of benefits you can choose between. There's for example, six free cinema tickets.
- [15:03]
A
They've got an annual coffee club and Gourmet society membership, which would be mine
- [15:08]
B
and also something that the Thursday merclub would enjoy very, very much indeed. It all off there you have fee free spending abroad, which means wherever you are, you won't be charged by Lloyds to use your debit card when you're traveling. Now, joining this club costs five pound per month, but that is refunded in any month that you pay 2,000 pound into your account.
- [15:25]
A
Now that is a club that's worth being part of. Check out Club Lloyds today. You'll need to be a UK resident and aged 18 or over to apply.
- [15:33]
C
It's nearly that time, everyone. The Rest Is Football will be on Netflix every day for the world's biggest tournament. Join myself, Alan and Micah for daily debates, unfiltered takes and the most special of guests, all from the heart of New York City. Yeah, that's right. We're excited too. See you soon.
- [15:53]
A
Hey, this is Michael and Hannah from Goal Hangers. The Rest is Science. This episode is brought to you by Cancer Research uk. In the uk, nearly one in two people will face cancer in their lifetime. The question is, could science stop cancer before it begins? And over the past 50 years, Cancer Research UK has helped double cancer survival in the UK. And that's proof of what research can achieve. Like take cervical cancer. Almost every case is caused by hpv, the human papillomavirus. And when scientists uncovered that link, prevention became possible. Indeed it did, by a vaccine. And it's protection that works way before the cancer itself can actually grow. After the vaccine was introduced, cervical cancer rates in England were nearly 90% lower than expected in women in their 20s. I mean, we're now genuinely at a point where this is a disease that is disappearing in younger women in the uk. This is something that I really hope my daughters will never have to deal with. For more information about Cancer Research uk,
- [16:48]
B
their research breakthroughs and how you can
- [16:50]
A
support them, visit cancerresearchuk.org restiscience. Welcome back, everybody. We're now in the realms of Sherlock Holmes adaptations. Vikram Khan has a question. Enola Holmes 3 is on its way. Raf Spall's gonna be Sherlock in a Sky adaptation next year. And I've just seen that a new Moriarty series is in the works. Yes. This begs the question, is Sherlock the most played character in film history? And why has he endured so long?
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B
Why has he enjoyed. I mean, we know why there's so many adaptations and that's because he's out of copyright. So anyone can do him. He's got that. Well, he's got that sort of Judy Povy thing, funnily enough, which is if you have. It's funny, I was talking to someone. You know, the thing with Sherlock is you have to use him quite sparingly. Cause he's so good, you know, he. Absolutely. The problem with someone, he's so brilliant, he can solve things immediately. So if you read those Sherlock Holmes book, a lot of the time it's how do we keep Sherlock out of the way?
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A
Yes.
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B
So Sherlock is often, you know, in some sort of, you know, drug induced stupor or, you know, he's off on the continent having to sort of track someone else down, because the second he puts his mind to a case, that case gets solved. But that aside, having someone who is brilliant but troubled and putting in them at heart of a crime drama is something that every sort of crime writer enjoys doing. Which is what? So everyone loves to get their hands on Sherlock Holmes. They can do different versions of him because again, he's slightly absent on the page, which means you can really color him in if you're a filmmaker. We did a little bit of research and Sherlock Holmes is not the most played character in movies. I've got a top 10.
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A
Oh, yes, please.
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B
Right, number seven. We've got. No, number 10, Frankenstein. Okay, yeah, Frankenstein. Young Frankenstein. Bride of Frankenstein. I could go on. Number nine, young guy, may have heard of him. Robin Hood.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
Number eight, Napoleon.
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A
Right. This is going to be like the Mobland executive producers list, isn't it?
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B
Yeah. These are not all fictional, by the way. So Napoleon did exist. He's just been played a lot. And again, he's out of copyright, as we all will be one day.
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A
Tell me some more. Great guys.
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B
I will. I was gonna say. Well, listen, so he's real. Number seven. We go fictional again. James Bond.
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A
He's real.
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B
Jimmy Bond.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yep. Number six, Sherlock Holmes. So he's the sixth most portrayed character on screen. We got a top five. People are thinking, who's in this top five? Holmes is six. Number five, Father Christmas. So again, real, we have a real
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A
character, a real man from history.
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B
Number four. We are real again. Abraham Lincoln.
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A
Wow.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I remember Lincoln. Yeah, I Guess I've seen him in
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A
their country, though he'll never be in their country. In their country, he'll never be off.
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B
Yeah. Which is America? Top three. I've got a new game show, Real or Not Real. Number three, the Devil.
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A
Okay.
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B
It's been portrayed an awful lot.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Number two. Listen, you can guess who number one is. If the devil is number three. I love that there's someone in between those two. And number two is Dracula.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So the devil is number three, Dracula is number two, and number one. We're counting numbers. One person, which, I mean, I don't
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A
believe it's theologically controversial, but, yeah.
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B
God slash Jesus.
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A
They're all part of the garden.
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B
Number one.
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A
The Holy Spirit is there, but it's hard to put on screen.
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B
Yeah, exactly. The Holy Trinity essentially are and is number one. So, yeah. Sherlock Holmes only number six, behind Father Christmas.
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A
Gosh, I'm surprised Lincoln's in there. I'm thrilled for Dracula. Well deserved.
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B
Do you know what?
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A
What a great thing.
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B
I wonder if anyone has done. Just reading through that list. If anyone has done Father Christmas Solving Crime. I wonder if. Because he's got all the skills for it.
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A
Please don't give another of your great Netflix holiday movie ideas away live on air. But that is a good one.
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B
Father Christmas Solving Crime.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So Santa Claus. I'll think of a pun.
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A
Yeah. I was thinking, why haven't we got there yet? But we will.
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B
Yeah. Something about a sleigh.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Or elves. There'll be something. Yeah. That feels like a hit.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Because he can go around the world. He can get into places like everyone welcomes him, and if someone doesn't welcome him, you know they're evil.
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A
Yeah.
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B
The amazing Family Guy episode with Stewie and Brian and Father Christmas is one of great. The great works of any art form in any century, I would say. But, yeah, Father Christmas Solving Crime. There we go. Thank you for the question, Vikram. We've only got two series out of the last two questions. We've got the Judy Pouvy mysteries, and we've got Father Solving Crime.
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A
Yeah, I like both of them, but I can actually see both of them happening.
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B
Talking of some of the greatest characters in the history of the world, Marina, a question for you from Aruba Rage.
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A
Oh, my God, that's the best name.
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B
That's a good name. Suddenly we got three series.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Because whoever Aruba Rage is, we're writing a character. Aruba asks again. Listen. Yeah. Oh, hold on. Oh, I see. Aruba Rage. I see what she's done.
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A
She's done.
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B
Yeah, it's a nom de plume. Because she's asking about Venezuela Fury, Aruba Rage, Venezuela Fury. Why is Venezuela Fury suddenly everywhere? I feel like I can't breathe in the direction of a tabloid without reading her name. Will the family have struck a secret deal with the press to make this happen? Why do tabloids latch on to certain
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A
people like, okay, very good. Aruba, not your real name. Venezuela Fury is the daughter of. If you've been under a rock and have somehow missed this, she's the daughter of Tyson Fury and his wife Paris. She's 16, she's just got married. Netflix have got a show called At Home with the Furies, which she's sort of part of. I totally agree. She has just blown up recently in a really big way. So they've had the wedding and the honeymoon. There's. Okay. There's a number of reasons for this. First of all, I think obviously, when you're gonna get a wedding and they're gonna be able to see pictures and all of that, and they put a lot on social media, a whole family is always. Because we already know, like the Fury ip as it were. You've got all sorts of dynamics, mini feuds. Feuds you can confect Tommy Fury of Molly Mae and Tommy Fury fame is Venezuela's uncle. Tommy Fury is married to Molly May. So they've got all of that.
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B
Are they back together?
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A
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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B
No way.
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A
Oh, my God. Hello. Is it last year? Yes. Tommy are back together, are they? Yeah, she took him another baby.
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B
Get out of town.
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A
Oh, my gosh.
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B
After what he did.
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A
You don't know what he did?
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B
No, I suppose I don't.
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A
Right. So just. We don't know what he did.
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B
I watched the boxing.
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A
Yeah.
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B
That's about as far as I go
- [23:28]
A
with the Furies with Venezuela. The story's very interesting. She's very young, she's 16. You know, they've been on this 30,000 pound honeymoon that we keep being told there's been lots of pictures of that and they've come straight back from it and moved into their first house, which is not a house, is a caravan. So. And she's moved out of the. Tyson Fury's big house. He's now worth hundreds of millions. So I think people think that there's lots in the story, but I would say that there is a sort of market decision here. The market decides, will there be sufficient supply of Venezuela Fury, in which case you can create the demand. People who make themselves available. When I've said Before my first job was in journalism, which I didn't even mean to go into, I used to answer the phone on the showbiz desk at the sun. And I learned then how many people who were in the papers, or as we called it then, but are in the media wants to be in the media. And it is extraordinary. People are. Now, you can tell people who would like. She would obviously like a show. She's obviously seen that her and her husband could have a show. Maybe it's, you know, something about Noah and Venezuela, and they can.
- [24:31]
B
What does he do, Noah?
- [24:32]
A
So her husband is called Noah price. He is 19 and he's an amateur boxer. Gonna shock you. I'm gonna shock you, right?
- [24:38]
B
Tough to be a boxer in that family. Yeah, isn't it?
- [24:41]
A
Yeah.
- [24:41]
B
Yeah.
- [24:41]
A
I think they want to be online. They put a lot online. But I remember being on that. On that desk at the sun and just. I can tell you the people who would ring in and say stories about their own lives. My God. I mean, I'm gonna totally disguise this because I remember and. Oh, my God. I remember some. There were two people really famous.
- [24:58]
B
Why don't you say the name and we'll. And we'll beat the name out. Just.
- [25:01]
A
There were two people really famous. They were having an affair with each other. And she rang in. He. I think they'd been on the coke all night, and he'd finally ended it. And she rang in the morning in a real state and said, I've been having an affair with him for however many years. It didn't run in this exact format, by the way. And I've been having an affair with. How many years. I think she was trying to bounce him into. Like, once it was exposed, he would. His wife would chuck him out. But it didn't happen in the end. But I remember thinking, the level of detail being provided here is extraordinary. And definitely we now live in an era where people just want to be a particularly sort of influencer level. The male who've covered this particularly male online, they've now got lots of people who just cover influencers. And almost traditional celebrities, as it were, have become less interesting because people feel,
- [25:49]
B
well, they're harder to research.
- [25:51]
A
They're so much harder to research. These people are putting lots of their lives online. We've Talked before about TatLife and all those sort of scurrilous sites that love the idea that these people are fraudulent in some way. So there's always a sort of like, this is what she put online, but this is the actual truth of her life. And you can already see them starting.
- [26:09]
B
And is there a sense that there is a genuine quid pro quo now that they can report on it because they are so visible?
- [26:16]
A
Yeah, I suppose there was. People always used to say in the old days, oh, you sold your story to okay for this and that. Now you can't be annoyed when you can't just turn the tap on and off for publicity. And that has been democratized hugely. Not that many people were in a position to be interesting enough to get a big budget magazine deal. Everyone can put what they like online about themselves and seemingly, seemingly do. And I would definitely say that, yes, she's blown up for a reason. People think there'll be lots of stories in her. She is blowing herself up, she's putting herself out there. And there are all these correspondents now who used to cover traditional celebrities and now have completely pivoted to covering influences because that's where the interest is, that's where they think there'll be more stories that you'll be able to expose. And it's just, it's a totally new dynamic. And these people are much more, they're much better copy, as it were, than writing about. I don't know, Natalie Portman, but you're
- [27:07]
B
always looking for new celebrities.
- [27:08]
A
It's true.
- [27:09]
B
If you're in this industry. Yeah.
- [27:11]
A
Ones that will deliver on, drama on, mess on, just will be available to you because I'm afraid nobody really leaves the office anymore. It's all done off people's social media feeds and it has been for a long, long time. First of all, it used to be who does what on Twitter or Instagram, who follows, who doesn't unfollow and things. It's not going out and knocking on doors and talking to people and meeting nightclub barman and whatever it is. And none of it comes from that anymore. It's all compet, completely office bound, this job.
- [27:41]
B
And also if you're made online or the sun or whoever, every single story they're putting out about Venezuela Fury, they will immediately see the impact of that. The numbers will be coming back and the numbers presumably are very high and
- [27:54]
A
people probably want to read about her.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah.
- [27:56]
A
And so, and as I say, there's the whole family. There's lots of potential for different things. So she's a good character.
- [28:02]
B
Yeah. I think people sometimes don't recognize the difference between a story that will run and a story that won't. You could write the biggest story in the world about someone uninteresting and you would get no clicks. You can write a tiny minor story about Venezuela Fury and you see what it brings in immediately.
- [28:18]
A
Wedding dress designer, you wouldn't believe what it would get.
- [28:21]
B
Yeah, but that's why suddenly someone is everywhere. Because people are clicking and clicking and clicking and in the old days they say, look, they sell papers. That was slightly harder to work out who was selling the papers and who wasn't because you're buying a whole thing. But now you can literally see every single click on every.
- [28:36]
A
But I do also believe that you create the market and some of it is born of. If people put themselves out there a lot, then you're just going to invest as a reporter in those ones because there's going to be a steady stream of stuff that you can write and talk about and people who are actually quite withdrawn, there's less and less about them. It's amazing. Some of the, you know, even the biggest pop stars in the world, there's actually relatively little that you hear about sort of Harry Styles or Taylor Swift because they don't put anything out there particularly. There's pictures of them going out to dinner. But. But there's.
- [29:07]
B
So the articles are very different.
- [29:09]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:09]
B
Speculative articles rather than. Yes, exactly. And also there's something to be said for having a brilliant name and Venezuela. I mean, you think it's an under examined part of our culture that Tyson Fury was called Tyson Fury and became the world heavyweight boxing champion. I mean that's unbelievable. That's so perspicacious of John Fury. How are you, John Fury, in calling your son Tyson? And then suddenly you've got a granddaughter called Venezuela. They've gone from John to Venezuela Taylor in two generations.
- [29:38]
A
That's ambition.
- [29:38]
B
Yeah, Isn't it just. But you know, the second, if she was called Jane Fury then people go, oh, okay. Oh, who's that? Is that Tyson Furious but been called Venezuela Fury. People are immediately, okay, give me more. You should be careful when, when you name your kids. Have a little think about their Instagram handles in a few years time. Bolivia would be a nice name. Suriname for a boy. I'm gonna call my Father Christmas thing Santa Laws and his catchphrase is you've been Saint Nick Disney. Gimme a ring Judy Poovy again, that's all comers can come in for that. But we need to talk to Donna Tartt about that first.
- [30:12]
A
Yes, yes. Although I have got some ideas.
- [30:15]
B
Yes. And I have now as well. I think that's us done. Your amazing series with James Kanakasorian continues tomorrow for our members. If you want to be a member, it's there. The rest is entertainmentgoalhanger.com and you're talking about whether everything's become generic, whether we've all become basic. But it's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant series. If you haven't tuned in there, you must do next week. Our Q and A will not be your questions to us, it'll be our questions to Steven Spielberg. I think is coming up next week, isn't it?
- [30:44]
A
Heard of him?
- [30:44]
B
Yeah, heard of him. But before that, of course, we'll have a regular episode. So we'll see you next Tuesday.
- [30:50]
A
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