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Marina Hyde (2:13)

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment Questions and answers edition.

Richard Osman (2:18)

I'm Marina Hyde and I'm Richard Osman. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina.

Marina Hyde (2:21)

Hello, Richard. How are you?

Richard Osman (2:22)

I'm very, very well. Don't forget we're doing a special Q and A very soon with Sir Paul McCartney.

Marina Hyde (2:27)

You think I forgot? I'm not forgetting that.

Richard Osman (2:29)

You're not forgetting it, but if you

Marina Hyde (2:30)

want genuinely very little else, but.

Richard Osman (2:33)

Well, no, you'll think about this episode first.

Marina Hyde (2:34)

Oh, yeah. Because above all, I'm a professional.

Richard Osman (2:36)

Yeah, above all, if you're any. If people say, what's one word you use to describe Marina and let's say professional.

Marina Hyde (2:43)

I'm still excited. I can do the intro to this particular edition of the show without messing up. I know every time I do it, I still can't believe I've done it.

Richard Osman (2:50)

Like a little fist pump, little Andy Murray fist bump. If you want to ask a question of Sepulmicarty, we'll be giving your questions, not ours, it's. The rest is entertainment at goal hacking. But we are going to be answering your questions this week. I'm sorry, that's a disappointment because neither of us are Paul McCartney. But we start with a question from Beverly G. Beverly G is like that 80s New York rapper Beverly asked, talking about House of Commons television, she said, could the House of Commons up the production value of their select committees? Finally, Beverly, someone said it. If potentially millions of people are watching Sir Ollie Robbins reveal crucial information for our democracy, would it not be a good use of taxpayer money to improve the cameras and mics?

Marina Hyde (3:27)

Yeah, we have reach blockbuster select committee phase of any government's life. And so, yeah, last week it was Ollie Robbins. This week there's been Morgan McSweeney and Philip Barton. Let me tell you something, Beverly G, which is that the, the filming in the House of Commons and that means in the chamber itself and the House of Lords and in the. On all the committee rooms is governed by incredibly strict rules which were mostly established in 1989 when they let the cameras in and have some of. Some have relaxed a little. But I will tell you part which will explain quite a lot. The main rules are that you have to focus on the speaker while they're talking. So this is why in the House of Commons you've got this like static angle on the dispatch box and it's quite wide. You're not allowed to do a close up though, which would just be ahead and you have to do. You have to do head and head and shoulders. Yeah, all the things you'd want to say, which is why, you know, get me tight now, because you want to do a Cutaway. You can't do that. They have relaxed them slightly to allow cutaways at all. But they can only cut away to the person who has been named or effectively, you know, by the honorable. The honorable lady opposite or something, you know, who you're talking about. They can only do that. And you can't highlight a group of MPs. You can obviously have no shots of documents of any kind. And it's, as I say, it's got to be sort of medium angle shot where. And you could. You can.

Richard Osman (4:54)

And this includes in the select committees

Marina Hyde (4:56)

that, yes, all of it is very. And it's kind of largely the same because you've got a speaker and someone who might be being referred to. So you're in general switching between a kind. A medium angle thing and a wide thing. Never close up and never split screen. That's like, that's. You can't have anything like that.

Richard Osman (5:13)

I mean, it was absolutely transformative for the darts. Split screen. Maybe it could be transformative for democracy, the darts.

Marina Hyde (5:19)

So much, you believe could flow from darts. So many things could be made better by adopting more of the conventions of the darts.

Richard Osman (5:24)

Well, listen, liberal democracy is in crisis.

Marina Hyde (5:26)

I agree.

Richard Osman (5:26)

I just say, why not throw a few balls in the air?

Marina Hyde (5:29)

Yeah, you can occasionally, in the chamber, have panning shots along the benches, but only really occasionally. And it's a whole sort of special permission thing.

Richard Osman (5:37)

Christopher Nolan did the thing when. Because he directed for a day, didn't he? And he turned the whole thing into like a. Like a tombola. And so, like, it was like a Jamiroquai video that. I like that. I like.

Marina Hyde (5:46)

That was a great day.

Richard Osman (5:47)

Yeah, that was a great day. And they were all sort of keeping up. They were sort of walking along. It was. I thought it was amazing.

Marina Hyde (5:51)

Wonderful, wonderful. But not enough guest directors. But they only have. Actually, they have. They've got two sort of control rooms, galleries, really, with, you know, the robotic cameras.

Richard Osman (6:00)

So do they have a director? Do they have an actual. Is there. Because presumably someone must be overseeing that.

Marina Hyde (6:04)

Someone has to oversee.

Richard Osman (6:05)

See, like, that's a boring gig.

Marina Hyde (6:07)

Well, it is.

Richard Osman (6:08)

I mean, listen, it's work.

Marina Hyde (6:09)

But the main reason for all of these rules is you cannot trivialize Parliament. And this is why you cannot use any footage from Parliament in any entertainment programs. You're not supposed to. You're not allowed to trivialize it. And it's supposed to be about recording it and creating a record rather than a drama. And you can see why everything. The most crucial thing is that everything has to Be impartial. And you can see why even, even a cutaway could provide the idea of a slant.

Richard Osman (6:35)

And so it's almost like a visual version of Hansard. And Hansard is literally. They're just writing down every single word that said just so future generations have that. And I guess the idea is if we're filming it, all we are doing is showing future. It doesn't matter. I mean, whatever you think about what might be happening today, you want someone in 200 years time to be looking at this and they just want to be able to hear what was said and by who and when.

Marina Hyde (6:56)

Exactly. And also you do want them to be able to do their job. And everyone. I mean, I'm going to shock you. MPs are subject to vanities as anybody else. And being always on is hard. You know, even the greatest actors in the world have to remember not to become a reaction gif when they're at the Oscars in the audience. You all have. Everyone has to remember that you're so eliminating that thing helps. But obviously, yes, for the viewer. Beverly G. You are. You're used to TV being a pretty fluid system of close ups and different things like that. So it does seem it would be expensive by the way to up the production values. You know, my dream is that you have when people are talking about Keir Starmer, there's a camera on Keir Starmer, wherever he happens to be, to have

Richard Osman (7:39)

the reaction or like a committee looks like when Tom Wambsgans is in the committee in succession. But yeah, it's not going to look like that.

Marina Hyde (7:48)

It's not. One thing, therefore I would say is that I absolutely adore the work of something that is such a unique thing in our country, which is the sketch writers. And they can, when it's done brilliantly, there's so many great sketch. You know, I love Tom Peck in the Times, John Crazy the Guardian, Rob Hutton the Critic. I loved Madeleine Grant's spectate. I love her once in the Spectator and the ones the one of that committee that you were talking about, the Ollie Robbins one was so good and I. I haven't spoken to her about it, but I would say that probably what she's done is even she's probably done this subconsciously because by the way, you have to write your. You have to file it so quickly after it's all over. But the reason her one good of Ollie Robbins because I think she subconsciously probably thought, you know, you're thinking it conforms to the conventions of a sitcom or ideally A sitcom, really, which is that you've got two lead characters here, Emily Thornbury and Ollie Robbins. The rest are just sort of bit. Bit puzzles. And everybody doesn't like a third character who's not on screen, and that's why it's funny. Who is Keir Starmer? And it all sort of works because they conform to the conventions of a sitcom, but they also tell you things that you can't see because of the way it has been filmed. As you say, it's this very dry way of filming. And so what I love is when the sketchwriters who are in the room, and if they're not in the room, people always say, oh, you can do it from the tv. I've done occasionally had to do sketches from the TV for one reason or another, or you're not allowed into the room when you're on the election trail. It's always worse. It's always so much better. It's like covering sport, you know. Yes, technically, you could cover a golf tournament off the tv, but it's nothing like doing it when you're there. And I really value the work of our sketch writers, particularly because they. They give you the little details, the little bits, what people were doing when the camera, you know, which you'd never know, what the other committee members were doing, who was getting everything off their phone, who wasn't really concentrating. And I really value that particular thing. And it's funny because it's not something that other countries particularly have, it's just a British thing. And so those accounts, which often come out really soon after they've happened, are a very good window into the actual drama and the actual, you know, they have higher production values, if we could put it that way.

Richard Osman (9:55)

Yeah. And this idea of, you know, could they have better cameras and better mics? Better cameras they don't need, because genuinely is. They need a static shot, so that's the shot they're going to get. And mics is one of those things. Anyone who's ever put on an event anywhere knows that mics always go wrong. I mean, that's, you know, if you. If you want mics to always go right, it's almost impossible, you know, if any village hall in the country or the second you mic somebody up, somebody's mic goes wrong. They're just notoriously difficult to use. And so whenever I do event, I say, can I have a handheld? Because, you know, at least, you know, if they're right or wrong and no one has to come and, you know, fiddle about with things. But yeah, microphones, unless you're have a full time staff doing that all the time, which probably is not what we should be spending on in our democracy, the microphones are always going to be an issue. Because microphones, God bless them, are always an issue.

Marina Hyde (10:41)

Richard, a question from Esha for you. Richard's previously mentioned that Freedom at Fadden was the best selling author of 2025. It's since been revealed that she is in fact an American physician named Sarah Cohen, which I found incredible. How does she find the time? This has me wondering what motivates authors to write under pseudonyms in the first place and what leads them to eventually reveal their true ident?

Richard Osman (11:04)

Lots of different reasons really. I mean, Sarah Cohen is a particularly interesting one. She didn't want to write under her own name because she had patients. And she's quite rightly thinking, if someone wants to go and see a brain surgeon, are they really going to go see someone who is sort of writing fiction in their spare time? And so I think very, very early on she thought, no, this is a hobby for me. My job is brain surgery. So I'm going to give myself a different name.

Marina Hyde (11:32)

It's just every time I think of it, it just blows my mind.

Richard Osman (11:35)

And Frieda is taken from a machine they use in brain surgery as well. So at least. Yeah, so it's a little reference to her job. How does she have the time? That's a slightly different question and an interesting question. She does not do an awful lot of brain surgery anymore. She is mainly writing all the time. She did a really, really good takedown of people accusing her of using AI. It was really, really, really good. She says, no, I can write two. I'm like, I can just do it. Plenty of people can. Some people can write for, but that's just something I can do, you know, take a look at every single thing I've written, you know, including before AI even existed. Right. It's exactly the same. I don't use it. Shut up saying I use it. You know, I use a different name because I was a brain surgeon. I don't do very much of it anymore. And this is how I write my books. And. And by the way, she doesn't add this, but people love her books. Yeah, so. So she uses a pseudonymous for that reason.

Marina Hyde (12:27)

I would only have accepted that from a rocket scientist. It's like, no, thank you. Anyone else making that accusation? No.

Richard Osman (12:34)

And there are all sorts of other people who want to protect their day jobs. Journalists quite often will, will, you know, write under different names. Sam Bourne is a. Is a pseudonym, for example. Just people whose day job and their. And. And the writing job might clash with each other. They will use a pseudonym. So that's one reason something like. So E. Old James, who wrote Fifty Shades of Gray, EL James is a pseudonym. Erica Mitchell, who worked in television for many years as a production manager, now she is using a pseudonym. Maybe because she's writing something that's vaguely pornographic and feels like maybe she doesn't want her professional name associated with that. So that would be a reason that you would use a pseudonym sometimes, perhaps you just don't particularly like your name. A really, really good example of why a pseudonym was chosen was Lee Child. So Lee Child's real name is Jim Grant, and again worked in TV for many, many years, like lots of writers. So he decides he's gonna use a pseudonym for his writing and he comes up with Lee Child. And the reason he uses Lee Child is cause he's writing crime and thrillers. And he said that Child would be exactly in between Raymond Chandler and Agatha Christie. So if you're in a bookshop, he's between two people who everyone's looking at all the time.

Marina Hyde (13:46)

That is brilliant. I did not know that.

Richard Osman (13:47)

That's one of the many reasons why he's a genius child.

Marina Hyde (13:52)

So cool.

Richard Osman (13:53)

J.K. rowling's an interesting one because there's two different things going on with J.K. rowling. I'll do the second one first. Which is. Which is when she moved on from the Harry Potter books. She did the Casual Vacancy, but then she starts writing thrillers, the Cormoran strike thrillers. And she writes those under the name Robert Galbraith. And she did that because she's very, very aware that she had this unbelievably enormous success. But, you know, would people just buy anything with her name on it? I guess so. She's thinking, well, I want to prove myself again. I want to prove to myself that I'm a great writer. And this wasn't a fluke or, you know, critics, you know, sort of sag off my books, and I just want them to show I can write. So she writes Corman Strike under Robert Galbraith. These books did not sell when they were under the name Robert Galbraith. And it was only a few weeks, but literally like nothing. Because that's what happens with most books. You know, it's really, really hard if you're a new writer, especially if you're Robert Galbraith, because you can't really do any interviews. You can't, because you're not real. And so, you know. But she used the pseudonym because she wanted to prove herself in a different way. But you very, very, very quickly, when Robert Galbraith was outed, who knows who by? Suddenly those books became enormous bestsellers because they knew it was J.K. rowling, not Robert Galbraith. But that was a reason for using one. And J.K. rowling itself is sort of a pseudonym, is Joanne Rowling, and she called herself J.K. rowling. And this is a very, very common reason for using pseudonyms, because she didn't want people to know she was a woman. She just thought, I'm writing these books.

Marina Hyde (15:26)

Literally centuries that's been going on for centuries.

Richard Osman (15:28)

You know, George Eliot, it's, you know, but different reasons now and now and away. I think she felt she wanted. We all know that girls read more than boys and we all know there's a gender split between the sort of books that boys will read. The numbers back that up. And she thought, well, if I'm J.K. rowling, no one knows if I'm a man or a woman, and therefore, you know, boys and girls can read me in equal numbers. I mean, obviously with the success of those books, it became apparent very quickly that people did know who she was. But the idea at the start was if she calls herself jk, then people won't know what gender she is. So all sorts of different reasons for people to do it. Sometimes people just don't like their name. Sometimes people, you know, their day job is not quite suitable for the sort of books they're writing. And sometimes you just want to hide who you are, you know, Primary Colours was written by Anonymous, for example, just which sort of showed that they were kind of an insider who couldn't, you know. Frieda McFadden? Absolutely. You can understand 100% she's thinking, no. I literally see patients day in, day out. I do not want to be sitting across from someone discussing something very serious and they've literally just read a thriller that I've written. That would be awkward. But now she doesn't really do it anymore, so we know she's Sarah Cohen. Should we go for a break? After the break, if you are listening. Lisa Kilroy, you asked us a question and we are not going to answer it, but someone very exciting is. That'll be straight after the break.

Marina Hyde (16:58)

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Richard Osman (18:53)

How about that, Lisa?

Marina Hyde (18:54)

Meryl the Legend. Acting lessons from Meryl Streep. We try to be a full service

Richard Osman (18:58)

podcast, but it's funny, isn't it? You talk to it because actors get that a lot. Cause it's the one thing I think non actors think, oh, I absolutely couldn't do that. And half the time it is, yeah, you find something within yourself. You know, we've all had moments in our life where we have cried. And one of the parts of being an actor is, you know, you go inside yourself and you can do that. But also, you know, there are artistics which are, you know, very sort of viscous things that you can put under your eyes just before a take starts that'll give you a little tear as well.

Marina Hyde (19:28)

I will say that a lot of actors will tell you that if they have got themselves into that place where they can cry, they are almost always thinking of something pretty. It takes a while to come out of it. They can't just switch it off. So when cut gets called, it's great if everyone on set realizes that they must be in a place to have got there and they're treated quite gently so that either they can do the take again or whatever it is. But yeah, I think that it's worth remembering that someone in the room has gone to quite a dark place in order to be able to do what they're doing. And Everyone else, if they're thinking about it, has to respect that when you come out of the take.

Richard Osman (20:05)

Yeah. On a set, there's always enormous, you know, before a kiss or before a cry. That's when everyone knows they have to be absolutely on their game. Because if somebody is in a situation where they're going to, you know, they have to cry in the middle of a scene. And as you say, it's usually that, that, that involves going somewhere quite dark. If you're about to start to take and then you go, oh, hold on, I just need to change a bulb. Yeah, you just. That you can't, you know, that's the moment where you go, no, that person is. We have. We have to turn over immediately because this actor is ready. So a lot of pressure on anyone. And if you do have to abandon a take and an actor is halfway through, that's tough.

Marina Hyde (20:44)

They'll often do like a closed set for things like that, which is the absolute bare minimum of people to be was definitely for nude scenes, but even for kisses and sometimes for cries because it's just helpful if there's not a million people even silently changing light bulbs.

Richard Osman (21:00)

Yeah. What a legend Meryl is.

Marina Hyde (21:02)

Oh my God.

Richard Osman (21:03)

Because that's a great answer. How cool. How can you not cry?

Marina Hyde (21:06)

Yeah.

Richard Osman (21:06)

How can you not cry? Yeah.

Marina Hyde (21:09)

Wherever you may be, follow that, Marina,

Richard Osman (21:11)

because I have a question for you from James. Brandon James says this week Netflix have announced they are releasing a film of Millie Bobby Brown's 19 steps with Tom Hooper signed on to direct. Given that this book was Ghostwritten by Kathleen McCurl, how does it work with intellectual property? Millie is signed on as a producer and is almost presented as the author of the novel. Does the ghostwriter get a one off fee or will they also get remunerated for the film?

Marina Hyde (21:34)

Yes, this is the. This is the book based on Millie Bobby Brown's grandmother's experience in World War II in the Bethnal Green tube disaster. But she's done lots of things. Millie Bobby Brown as all. Lots of these young stars do. You know, she's got a makeup line, clothing collaborations, a book as well. They're very diversified. But when this book came out, there was a real backlash about it, saying that someone else had written it. So much so that Millie Bobby Brown actually posted a picture of herself with Kathleen McHale saying, I couldn't have done this without you. Yeah.

Richard Osman (22:05)

No shame.

Marina Hyde (22:06)

No, no. But also, ghostwriters have been around for absolutely hundreds of years. Every speech that you ever hear a politician give, nobody says to Nigel Farage, you didn't even write this.

Richard Osman (22:17)

Okay, yes, but that's different to being an author.

Marina Hyde (22:19)

I agree. But being a ghostwriter is something that has existed genuinely for hundreds of years. It is a deal that you do. By the way, in answer to your question, no, she won't be getting anything out of it. I'm almost certain you're a writer for hire. It's a writer. It's like a contributor gig. You're paid a amount of money, and I'm sure she got paid well for it. Cathy McCall, she seems to have been still, you know, willing to do the picture with Millie Bobby Brown. So she knew what she was signing on for. And any agent has foreseen this and obviously thinks, as you can see how carefully Millie Bobby Brown's career, with all these different strands is being planned out, will think she'll do the book and then we'll do the film of the book and knows all of this, and it will all have been sewn up. So my feeling is I very, very much doubt that she. It's possible that they say if it is made into a film, you get a bonus, but it won't. It will just be that they could have that clause in. I very much doubt it. You don't need to give people that. You tend to just pay them for the ghostwriter.

Richard Osman (23:19)

My thinking would be in this particular case, because you're absolutely right, because what you want to do is control the amount of money the ghostwriter is getting so they can get a percentage or something. I think given that they would have known for a fact that this would be optioned by Netflix. It might have even been optioned just off an idea. It means that the fee that Kathleen would have got in the first place would have been significantly higher than she would have got without that. Because you are. Because you're not just buying out the book, you are buying out the film rights as well at the same time, because you must have known that those film rights will be lucrative and will be sold. So, yes, I think you're right. She would not get extra for this. But that would have been baked into the original deal, I would have thought.

Marina Hyde (23:56)

Yes. And there are, you know, there are lots of famous ghost writers. J.R. moehringer who did Prince Harry's book, and he also did Andre Agassiz. Biography is brilliant and ghostwrites lots of these things. The name wasn't on the front of the book, and it's sort of understood. She got a big backlash, I think. And I think that even her publishers felt that that was quite sexist and that you wouldn't in lots of other cases have a backlash like that. But as I say, she clearly tried to get in front of it by posting this picture. But in general, a ghostwriter is always a defined writer for hey gig. And you've signed away future rights to this. That.

Richard Osman (24:36)

Yeah. And I think, listen, I absolutely understand why there's a backlash because you know, writing a book, there is supposed to be an authenticity to it. And if you are a consumer who's not used to books and doesn't understand the world of ghostwriters, if that's the first thing you've ever heard of it, you'd be going, well, this is absolutely insane. If you write a book, you write a book. But as you say, you know, especially in autobiography and non fiction, it is very, very common. And so long as you lean into it and admit to people that you've done it, there are people out there who have ghostwriters who don't tell you they've got ghostwriters, writers. That to me is the worst crime of all. But Millie Bobby Brown, at least her ghostwriter has been acknowledged, her ghostwriter has been paid and if she does another one, she'll probably get paid again. So, you know, it's, it's nice money, but if it's the first time that you would come across this idea as a consumer, I think you would. Your immediate reaction would be, but I. How on earth do you expect me to read your book book. When it is not your book, it is someone else's.

Marina Hyde (25:34)

I hope I'm saying your surname right. Rob Fien. Rob Fien says in your Jet2 discussion, you didn't mention that Jess Glynn is in a long term relationship with football presenter Alex Scott. I don't know how I didn't because I live for this stuff.

Richard Osman (25:46)

I didn't know that.

Marina Hyde (25:47)

I, I'm stunned. You've just. We don't spend. I said to you, you need to spend 15 hours a day on mail online and then you know, everything.

Richard Osman (25:55)

I think we consume different media, which is, which is why the podcast works. You don't read Snooker Scene a lot, right?

Marina Hyde (26:04)

I dabble, yeah. Rob says it's one of those B tier celebrity couples that you only discover when you Google one of them. I was wondering what your favorite surprise celebrity couples are.

Richard Osman (26:12)

We can lose B tier, I think, because, because Jess Glynn and Alex Scott, I think that's, that's quite a lot of star power right there. As I say, I didn't know and you know, that's, that's our main me. Yeah, I guess.

Marina Hyde (26:25)

You happy now?

Richard Osman (26:26)

You know, I've been writing a book.

Marina Hyde (26:27)

Yeah.

Richard Osman (26:28)

You know, I just, it's. Sometimes I spend more time doing that, but, you know, I do love that

Marina Hyde (26:33)

I'm beginning to question the wisdom of my 15 addicts a day on these websites.

Richard Osman (26:37)

No, listen, you, you keep it up. I do a celeb couple that I, I really like the idea of because I like both of them. And I read that they met when they're like 15 or so and they like met when they were kids at like a Christian youth camp or something. But it was only years later they became a couple. And one of them, in my favorite film of last year, the Ballad of Wallace Island, Carrie Mulligan and Marcus Mumford. I think that's a, that's a fun couple, isn't it? Don't you think they both seem so lovely?

Marina Hyde (27:06)

Yeah, Abs, I, I absolutely think that that is a fun couple for sure. And yeah, they did have that funny story where I think, I think they were pen pals. I think they started. I don't want to get that bit wrong. I, I'm a big fan of Maya Rudolph and Paul Thomas Anderson.

Richard Osman (27:22)

That's one that always goes, Paul Thomas Anderson feels like someone who isn't real, right? Because he's so cool and he's such an auteur. And then you see a picture of him, you think, I can't believe you're an actual real human being. And then you discover he's married to Maya Rudolph who everyone will recognize from every American film ever. And sat in that live and stuff like that. You think, not only are you real, but you're sort of, you appear to be married to this wonderful woman as well. How are you making these? How are you an auteur with a three word name name? And yet you also just appear to be married as well. Listen, for me, the, the absolute best of the best, of course. And I don't think it's unlikely though, because, you know, when two people get together, you think, oh, yes, of course, Joe Swash, Stacey Solomon. Yes, please.

Marina Hyde (28:06)

But you don't, it's not like you don't know they're together. You certainly do. If you spend 15 hours where I spend it.

Richard Osman (28:11)

What was the question? What was the last bit of the question?

Marina Hyde (28:13)

Likely ones that you had to sort of, you know, you have to think, oh, hang on a second. Are they together?

Richard Osman (28:19)

I just wanted to talk about them.

Marina Hyde (28:20)

Yeah, I know. If you haven't had a mention of them in each podcast you get very upset.

Richard Osman (28:25)

I'm stick with Mumford and Mulligan then. It would be lovely to have the Mumford Mulligan's round for dinner. I mean, that's the thing, isn't it?

Marina Hyde (28:31)

And I wish they double barreled it, but I don't think they have.

Richard Osman (28:34)

I don't think they have. So we go Mulligan, Mumford and Thomas, Anderson and Rudolph. Yeah, beautiful.

Marina Hyde (28:41)

Right, it is that time of the episode. Richard. The recommendations section, which this week is brought to you by Tesco Mobile.

Richard Osman (28:48)

Yep, we love making recommendations. We love recommending film and TV things in the same way that friends and family always do. If someone tells you about a show, tells you about something to read, then it makes it that bit more important and also gives you a little insight into who they are. Sometimes you agree and sometimes you disagree.

Marina Hyde (29:04)

Yeah, that whole connection with friends and family is what Tesco Mobile is all about, which is why they're happy to be your second most important network.

Richard Osman (29:11)

Now let's get on to our recommendation.

Marina Hyde (29:13)

My recommendation this week is for a book called London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe, which people are absolutely gripped by this book, if you read the story. It's a story about a boy who becomes obsessed with the super rich. It's a true story. It's non fiction, this book. And he pretends he's the son of an oligarch. His name was Zach Brettler and age 19, he jumped to his death from the fifth floor of one of those very fancy new tower block developments on the banks of the Thames. And it's this story. I mean, it's absolutely gripping as it's a true story. It's got it all, gangsters, violence, and this absolutely tragic end, which isn't really an end because it's so unclear what happened. And even the coroner says, I don't know what happened. And it illuminates a world and an era, definitely, and a city, I have to say, and some of the things that have happened in London. And most particularly his parents search for their lost child and for answers. It's brilliant.

Richard Osman (30:08)

I'd also say I'd read anything by Patrick Reagan Keith as well. I met him at a festival last year and he's an extraordinary writer. He tells, he told an amazing story about how he was singing with his son, he was watching one of his children at a baseball game and his other son is playing with his phone. And then he realizes halfway through that his son is FaceTiming a Mexican drug cartel boss who he was writing an article about his phone. Anyway, he's an amazing book. There's a selection of his things about rogues. I think it's called Rogues. And also he did say Nothing. He did Empire of Pain about Northern Ireland.

Marina Hyde (30:43)

Yeah. Say Nothing from the Troubles. And Empire of Pain, which is amazing about the opioids epidemic.

Richard Osman (30:50)

Yeah, he's a great writer. Listen, I'll recommend something a bit more chill, which is Interior Design Masters is back on BBC1. You can see it on iplayer. Alan Carr and Michelle Ogunderhin and, you know, new designers and they just do lots of interior design challenges each week. It's got such a big heart and you can be very, very judgmental about people's taste as well. Something with a big heart where you can also be judgmental. I mean, it's perfect, isn't it, in

Marina Hyde (31:14)

the privacy of your own home.

Richard Osman (31:16)

Exactly. So, yeah, my recommendation is. Is Interior Design Masters, BBC One.

Marina Hyde (31:19)

Well, those were our recommendations brought to you by Tesco Mobile, who after the friends and family you share your recommendations with, Tesco are very happy to be your second most important network, Tesco Mobile.

Richard Osman (31:30)

It pays to be connected. Search why Tesco Mobile to find out more. Don't forget to get those questions in for Sir Paul McCartney. Rest is entertainmentalhanger.com we have a bonus episode tomorrow which is all about the birth of breakfast tv. Absolutely right up my street.

Marina Hyde (31:45)

Start of a series which I'm very into.

Richard Osman (31:46)

If you want to become a member at Free Listening and all those bonus episodes, I.e. therewrestlersentertainment.com you can sign up for that. You don't have to. We always tell you. And if you don't, we will. See you next Tuesday.

Marina Hyde (31:57)

See you next Tuesday.