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- [00:01]
A
The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, celebrity culture has a way of taking very small preferences and promoting them until they require a lot of paperwork.
- [00:10]
B
Yeah, it's like the first time you ever go on a show and you say, oh, I could have some sparkling water. And then like, forever, it's like, oh, he has to have sparkling water. It must have sparkling water. It's very, very important. And that's what we call the rider.
- [00:19]
A
The rider. Right. In some cases, the rider didn't stay sort of practical for long. You know, it started as a wish list and then it sort of strayed into a kind of a hostage. Note. There was a point in JLo's ego where she was having, like, you know, the white drapes, the white candles, the white. Absolutely everything. White flowers, white, you know, sofas, everything. Most people don't actually need a rider in this life of ours, however, but there is something reassuring about not having to specify everything twice or more.
- [00:44]
B
And this is one of my absolute favorite things about Octopus Energy. If you ring them about anything, your number is recognized and you'll go through to a team who deals with you and have dealt with you before. So, yeah, you have a team, they recognize your number and you go through to people who. Who you don't have to explain the same thing to 15 times.
- [01:05]
A
Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde.
- [01:11]
B
And I'm Richard Osmond. A slightly different episode this week.
- [01:14]
A
Our guest. I often use the phrase needs no introduction, but it's Paul McCartney. He definitely needs no introduction.
- [01:20]
B
Yeah. Sir Paul McCartney of Wings, of course. So we recorded this last week. They said Sir Paul would love to talk to you. Would you be able to come to Abbey Road Studios to do it? We're like, yeah, that's even better for us than Sir Paul coming to the Spotify studios.
- [01:39]
A
I know you won't say this, but I'm going to say what you did that day, which was hilarious. You did a dash from receiving your OBE at Windsor Castle, straight to Abbey Road to talk to Paul McCartney.
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B
It was quite a day. In some ways, it's unbelievable day.
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C
Yeah.
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B
I spoke to the Princess Royal in the morning and then, yeah, straight to Abbey Road to talk to even more royalty.
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A
I loved it that he said he'd only had all of his honours from the late Queen.
- [02:05]
B
Yes, he talked. He had an awful lot more honours than I did and was happy to talk about it now in this interview, which we absolutely loved. Thank you. To Sir Paul's team. And it was to celebrate the release of the Boys of Dungeon Lane, which is his new. It's really beautiful album where he's really, really, really looking back to his younger days. It's very, very.
- [02:25]
A
It's like a famed prequel.
- [02:27]
B
Yes, it is like a famed. And, you know, he was in an interesting introspective mood because of that. And you sent in so many questions. Thank you so much. Loads of really, really good ones. I couldn't use all of them. So have a listen out, see if we used yours. Talked about one thing, I really. There's a great question about the nature of fame and how much that has changed.
- [02:47]
C
But we've talked about fandoms and mad
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A
fandoms, which, you know, he knew a few things about but was genuinely hilarious, I found on fandom.
- [02:55]
B
But listen, we'll talk to you again afterwards as well. But I will just say this. What a dude.
- [03:03]
C
All new drinks are now at McDonald's
- [03:06]
B
with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher
- [03:10]
C
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- [03:33]
A
Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelop. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.
- [04:02]
B
Sir Paul, what an absolute pleasure. Now all the questions in this interview come from our listeners. So that's not me just sort of apologizing, but they're not from us. Shall we kick off? We're here to talk about the new album. And our first question has something to do with that.
- [04:18]
A
Yes, very much. Someone has written in from Liverpool. Matthew Lumby says, after you announced the Boys of Dungeon Lane as your album title, I drove straight round to Dungeon Lane to see what it was like. The street signs had been nicked. Was this random scallies or was this cooked up by you? And if it was you, are you going to put the signs back.
- [04:36]
C
It was a scally. Because I went up there, you know, to. I thought, I'll take pictures of it. Cause we're gonna do it for the album cover. And it was gone before you'd announced. Yeah, even before I got there. Yeah. So it's a mock up.
- [04:51]
A
Oh, is it?
- [04:51]
C
Yeah, they will because. Yeah, I think they may replace it. But it'll get nicked again. So that was it. It was there when I was a kid. But I think the philosophies have changed, you know, because when you were a kid, no one would dare nick a street sign. It's just something that the older generation.
- [05:14]
B
He must have been responsible for Almost more street signs being stolen than anyone in history now.
- [05:19]
C
Yeah. Abbey Ro.
- [05:21]
A
Yeah.
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C
Penny Lane.
- [05:22]
B
Penny Lane. I mean, there's a lot of. Dungeon Lane is gonna be the new one. Well, let's talk a little bit more about Dungeon Lane. A question from Matt Creasy, who says your most recent album is about memories of Liverpool. When you are writing songs about the past, how do you make sure the music stays present?
- [05:38]
C
Well, cause it is present. You don't really have to think about it too much. Cause it's me writing it. So I'm writing it on a guitar or maybe a piano. And I can't really do much more than what I do. So, you know, it's always gonna sound sort of presentish no matter what the lyrics are. It's just the way I write, you know, I write in all sorts of different styles, but they're all joined together by the fact it's me.
- [06:10]
B
Yes, they're all Paul McCartney.
- [06:12]
C
It's all Paul McCartney.
- [06:13]
A
I had a bit of a supplementary Matt Creasy, which was. Have you ever accidentally caught yourself writing a melody of a song and thought, oh, actually I've already written.
- [06:21]
C
Yeah. Or other people have written it. Yeah, we used to do that. Ringo used to come up with songs and we'd say, ringo, that's a Bob Dylan song. And you go, oh, and John and I used to do that too. Sometimes we just have a great melody here we go here. And then it'd be like, isn't that out of west side Story or something? You know, it's easy to do, but
- [06:45]
B
when you do so you're going back in your mind thinking memories of Liverpool at that time.
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C
Yeah.
- [06:50]
B
Do you also go back in time with memories of how you wrote songs at that time? Do you know, are you able to sort of connect with that teenager musically as well?
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C
No, I don't think so. I think, you know, you. You're lucky if you can write songs. You're lucky if they develop and your style develops.
- [07:09]
B
Yeah.
- [07:11]
C
So I can do things within that song you're talking about by my mom and dad, salesman saint. In it, we have the sound of an old 40s band. So I can do things like that, which is. It's not my style going back. It's just that this is what they would have listened to. There's a line in the song sort of says the only entertainment was a piano and radio. Hot tea and cigarettes. You know, that's what I remember. My dad was the family pianist at Sing Alongs and they both smoked ciggies and drank a lot of tea. So that's, you know, that's what I would just pick up on.
- [07:52]
B
It comes through. I have to say, people who are gonna listen to this album or listens, it's so brilliant and it absolutely takes us back somewhere. Whilst also we're still in 2026. A prequel. I think it's wonderful.
- [08:04]
A
Yeah, it's a prequel. How do you tunnel back there? Someone. Jensen Tagg has written and he said, Bob Dylan says that when he looks back at songs he wrote in his 20s, he doesn't quite know who that. Who wrote Blowing in the Wind. Do you feel similar that there's obviously a bloodline to where you are now, but yeah.
- [08:20]
C
Yes, it is. Only difference is I sort of know who that person was because there's a sort of line to what we did. We first came in this studio, Abbey Road studio, as sort of just barely out of our teenage years. And we were writing songs then directly to the fans.
- [08:47]
B
Yeah.
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C
So love me do please, please, please me please from me to you she loves you is all about me or you directly to the people who are listening. And then we start to get a bit different, you know. So I kind of know. I remember who that guy, who those guys were. It was people from Liverpool writing to the fans. First phase, then maturing a little bit and getting a little bit more artistic or whatever, you know. So, yeah, I think I kind of do remember who I was.
- [09:26]
A
You always strike me as someone who's been able to totally preserve their innocence. How on earth have you managed that?
- [09:32]
C
Yeah, I don't know. People do put it another way. They'll say, how have you stayed so normal with the Beatles and the whole thing? Wings. The whole thing. And I think the truth is it was with my family, I was very lucky. I came from a very loving family, very smart, working class people. And I Always say to people, don't underestimate the working class. Cause, you know, I can see the thing. Oh, thickhead the plumber. What's he know? But from my family I know that like for instance, my cousin Bert was. He compiled crosswords for the. For the Guardian and for the Times. So I mean, you know, to do that, that's a pretty smart working class guy. Yeah.
- [10:25]
B
Isn't it just.
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C
And you know, he's just one of us.
- [10:27]
B
Yeah.
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C
So we had that kind of stuff going on. Very smart. All the repartee.
- [10:33]
B
By the way, I think the reason that Bob Dylan doesn't remember writing Blowing in the Wind is because Ringo Starr wrote it. Yeah.
- [10:40]
C
Do you remember when he did that?
- [10:43]
B
I think this is a great question from Khalid. Khalid Said, he says, as someone who's been extraordinarily famous for possibly the longest time of any famous person, can you describe how being famous has changed in your lifetime? What did it feel like to be famous in the 60s versus today?
- [11:00]
C
Yeah. I think the big difference is in yourself. When you're first famous, you love it. Cause it's what you're trying to achieve. So you actually get a little hit or, you know, something goes well, and people in the street know you. You love it. Yeah, there's never any of this sort of, oh, people are bothering me, dear. You know, you didn't have that, none of that.
- [11:25]
A
The Modern affliction.
- [11:26]
C
Yeah, no, we loved it. You. You learn to deal with it. I remember going to a gig once and I took the train out of London to the station near this gig. And I walked in just on my own to the gig, and there's a little gang of girls found me and they're all screaming around and I'm going, girls, girls, calm down, calm down. Now listen, here's the deal. If you keep quiet, I'll do your autographs, we'll walk in and it would be great. So you learned how to deal with that. And they got it and they were very good and realized they'd get some special time. You know, as time's gone by, the times have changed. So now phones. Yeah, yeah, phones. So if I meet someone, it's like, oh, oh. And they're reaching for their phone, you know, And I say, I'm sorry, I don't do pictures. And that is like radical these days.
- [12:33]
A
Yeah.
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C
Because I told that I'm name dropping now. I told that to Oprah. She goes, you don't what? You don't do pictures. I said, no. I said, why? I don't want to, you know, it's like, it's as simple as that. And I have a long explanation about, oh God, it goes on. I say, no, I don't like to do that because it's important to me to beat your question to, well, you're innocent or normalness. I feel that's very important to me. The minute I get like above myself and start thinking I'm like something else, I won't like me. So it's very important for me to be sort of just me. And so I will say to people, I don't want to do the photos. And they'll say, why? I said, well, I'll tell you what. And I go into this long winded explanation of down on the south coast of France, Saint Tropez, there's a guy on the beachfront who's got a monkey and you pay to have your photo taken with the monkey. So I say, I really do not want to feel like that monkey. And when I take a picture with you, I do feel like him.
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B
Oh, that's great.
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C
I'm not me, I'm suddenly something else.
- [13:48]
A
But that way they've got a proper moment of connection with you. I felt that weirdly. I went to the Louvre. I took my daughter to Paris for the first time. We went to the Louvre. No one looked at any of the pictures. They just stuck their phone up and photographed it. And you know, you're a little bit like Ramona Lisa, but just having just the photo like that, rather than the
- [14:07]
C
phenomenon of how we live now.
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B
Yeah, I love the idea. There's someone who's seen Sir Paul McCartney is so excited and then asking for this and you get towards the end of the explanation and they're going, anyway, Paul, I have got a train to catch. Lovely to meet you.
- [14:21]
C
It was a nice story. And then they go back to their friends and say, you met Paul Clare, did you get a picture? No, he just went on up. Some bloody monkey.
- [14:30]
A
I had some special time. He told me an incredible anecdote about a monkey.
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B
It was something about the monkeys. I forget what it was. Do you feel the. The press and intrusion and things like that have changed since the 60s as well, or.
- [14:42]
C
I think they were always intrusive, you know, I think it doesn't bother me, the press, I used to call them lovable rogues because there is that element to them. Now some of them are not so lovable. Yeah, but I don't mind, you know, it's their job. And so as long as what they're writing about you Isn't too bad. I just think it's occupational hazard.
- [15:08]
A
Speaking of somewhat an occupational hazard, this is one of my favorite questions we had today from Philip Andrea, who says, even though you are very, very famous, have you ever been mistaken for another celebrity?
- [15:21]
C
No.
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A
Oh, that's good. Yeah. You're the apex. The absolute apex predator of celebrity.
- [15:25]
C
I was trying to think it would have been good. No, no.
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A
I think you have to play along in the moment if you are.
- [15:29]
C
Yeah.
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B
If we move off music for a second. So I know you're a big TV fan. I know you love all types of culture. Laura Godbolt says, if you had to be a contestant on a reality game show, which one would you choose and why? Eg, Traitors Bake Off, Dragon's Den, et cetera.
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C
Pointless.
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B
Thank you.
- [15:46]
C
Absolutely. And not just because you.
- [15:48]
B
And that's a booking. That's an official booking.
- [15:49]
C
Yes, official booking.
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A
It's Christmas.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Pointless is one of my favorites. So that would probably be the one. Or the favorite shows. Gogglebox, House of Games.
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B
There you go.
- [16:01]
C
Without Richard.
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B
He's good.
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C
He's very good guy.
- [16:04]
A
Yeah.
- [16:04]
B
I had another question from Rachel Ablett, who's the producer of Would I Lie to youo? And she said, would you ask Sir Paul if he'll come on the Would I Lie to youo Christmas special? We'd love to have him.
- [16:12]
C
Oh, my God.
- [16:13]
B
That's another favorite on that show. They do an interview with you where they sort of say, has anything interesting ever happened to you? And you'd be like, they said they'd be there for weeks
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A
now. Cherry says you've always been a great character writer. Eleanor Rigby, Rocky Raccoon, Jenny Wren. Is there any behavior that you see in people in the 21st century that still baffles you? The new types of guys?
- [16:35]
C
I think a lot of this influencer stuff, I just. Cause I'm not that generation. I just don't really get it. But I see it. You can't help it. You know, it's on an Instagram where my wife will be looking and she'll be showing me something else and then one of those will come on. I just think it is funny. I suppose it always happened. But people who don't seem to be particularly talented are like very famous, only very famous. Billions of hits and views and all that. So you've got to be careful about talking about that because it makes you sound very old fashioned, which I am.
- [17:14]
B
Yeah. I think if you're Sir Paul McCartney, you're allowed to say that.
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C
Am I.
- [17:17]
B
Yes, I think, I think you can get away with it.
- [17:19]
C
I'll continue.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah. In the same way you're allowed to name drop Oprah.
- [17:22]
A
Yeah. She was lucky to be name drop, though.
- [17:24]
B
She was lucky.
- [17:25]
A
She was lucky to appear in this. This episode is brought to you by Lloyds, who you can rely on to keep life running smoothly. Now. You know, what isn't celebrated enough is the behind the scenes work that makes successful entertainment seem so smooth.
- [17:44]
B
You know, you go onto any sort of set and there's the talent and everyone's having to run around after them, but the people having to run around after them are the runners. And there is not a single successful television show that isn't powered by brilliant runners.
- [17:58]
A
Whenever you hear a director or actor say, you know, we're all just one big happy family, I always think, yeah, and you're the children and the people who are like running around are actually always the youngest people on set because runners are always really young. It's an absolute first job in the business.
- [18:11]
B
And the other key thing is if the runners are good, you don't notice them because nothing goes wrong. And it's very similar to your bank. You just need them to be there when you need them.
- [18:21]
A
Well, like with the Lloyds app, you can check lots of handy things, little details, what payments you have coming up, what subscriptions you're paying for. It is this kind of helpful, smart stuff that makes 14 million people bank on Lloyds.
- [18:33]
B
And that's based on Lloyds internal customer data from March 2026. But we just want to say thank you to all the runners and thank you to Lloyds.
- [18:42]
A
Ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit RedBull.com BrightSummerAhead to learn more. See you this summer. This summer, serve up the cookout classics craft mayo and dressing. Toss green salads with delicious ranch dressing or zesty Italian. Serve smooth, craveably creamy potato salads with mayo. We all know it's not a cookout without craft. Do you think about hits and views? Click?
- [19:36]
C
No, no. I'm very lucky. I have an office which. So I've got kids who work in the office who are great and they really understand that stuff. They love it, they live it. So they will just tell Me, what is a good thing to do. And you could do that, and that would be good. So I don't really think about it. I'm just led. See that ring at the end of my nose? Stick a hook in it.
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A
Just do what you're told.
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C
Lead me anywhere.
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B
And so that's interesting because you've had every type of success you could have and you've lived through all those things of, you know, we just, we want to set out this venue and then we want to, you know, go abroad and then we want to have a record out and then, you know, we want to have a number one. What does success mean to you now? So with the new album, which you're obviously very proud of, what does success look like now when. When you release a new record?
- [20:27]
C
I think that people would like what I'm doing. Yeah, it was always the kind of bottom line, but now that's really the only line. If I go out on tour, then that the audience likes the new songs. But I will say, I know they don't. Audiences. Audiences don't like new songs normally. I mean, you know, I'll say to them, okay, you know, I say, we're going to do a new song now. And I say, and I know you don't like it because whenever we. Whenever we do a big Beatles song, your cameras all light up and it's like a galaxy at night. I said, we do a new song, it's like a black hole. And it is true, they don't. They don't really want to, but you
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B
should say, you know, you know, those songs are new as well.
- [21:17]
C
Yeah, it was a time. No, so I think it's just the people liking what you're doing, which is the old. Yeah, I think that's basically what everyone wants. You know, my kids laugh at me because they say, you like Adulation, don't you? I say, yeah, you can adule me anytime you want.
- [21:37]
B
Do you like adulation? It's an interesting question, you know.
- [21:40]
C
Yeah, I do, I do. And I think is that because it
- [21:44]
B
means you've done a good job or is there like a personal ego in that, or is it you want people to love the thing that you've created?
- [21:51]
C
I think it's that it's that you've created something. If you're writing a song that you think is good and you think, oh, yeah, wow, really cracked it here. So when you record it and then it goes out into the world, your babies fly out into the world, if people like it, it's sort of what you're looking for, I mean, beyond just the satisfaction of creating a piece of art once it goes out, it's like. I mean, the song, the single off the new album, Dawns and Lane is called Days We Left behind. And I've had a lot of feedback of that. A lot of people say I was crying because it is very emotional song. And the verse that gets me very emotional is it sort of says, nothing stays the same. No one needs to cry. And it's like, yes, that's the line that makes you want to cry.
- [22:49]
B
And you're deliberately trying to make them cry by doing that.
- [22:52]
C
I don't know. Where's it come from, Richard? Yeah, I don't know. But no, it is great. If something you've done and you think that's pretty good, and then people actually feed back and say, you know, I love what that was. I think that's all I'm looking for.
- [23:13]
A
Contemporary artists seem to have a much harder time saying, I actually love the adulation. Why is that? Why do they have a time?
- [23:21]
C
Well, you know, look, think about it. What is it we start off trying to do? We're at school, you go to the careers master and he tells you, you're hopeless. There's nothing out there for you.
- [23:32]
A
You know, you've got something of yourself.
- [23:36]
C
So you would always go, oh, God, you know, okay. And then we got in a group and then you start to do well and things. And what is it you're looking for? You're looking for approval or looking for money? Looking to get out of your circumstances and rise in the world. But I don't think there's any point being shy about that. I think everyone knows anyway, if you're in a job, you want promotion, or if you've got a show on television, you want ratings.
- [24:09]
B
Exactly. How's the game? Six o' clock every day, BBC Two. I think that of. Of the billions of people that have ever lived on the planet, you've had one of the most extraordinary lives of any of them. If you think about where you came from and where you ended up, this is just philosophically, what is it like to be Paul McCartney when you wake up in the morning, if you know what I mean by that question? What do you think about the life that you've lived and what happened to you and how it happened, it must feel extraordinary.
- [24:39]
C
Well, you know what? I think my. My shield against that is to try not to think of it too much.
- [24:48]
B
Yeah.
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C
Because I often think, well, wait a minute, you know, I'm looking For sort of one little success. Great. But then if I've got a few, you know, I got that and I got that song and I got that song. If I really. Paul. Yeah. You've great, man. I think my head would explode.
- [25:08]
B
Yeah.
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C
So I kind of try and sort of dampen it down a little bit. And so I think that was okay. That was a good one. And I don't really feel like him. He's the famous one. I'm sort of the guy who has to go up and have breakfast.
- [25:24]
B
Well, that's it. But when you're watching, you know, there's so much footage of everything you did, and that must feed into it a bit. You have to watch some of it, presumably.
- [25:31]
C
Yeah.
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B
And just a constant reminder of what's happened.
- [25:34]
C
Yeah.
- [25:35]
A
We're here in Abbey Road. Obviously, you have to come in and you go past the crossing and there's a massive queue outside today every day of people waiting to do it. When you come drive past that, do you just think, huh? I remember doing that once.
- [25:51]
C
I don't like the idea that you've been striving all your life for success and fame or whatever it is the success is. And then you turn around and go, nah, don't like it. I think that's churlish. I think, you know, what you want to do is go, yeah, I've got here, I'm here. You know, what did I want? I wanted that. That, that. Okay, I've got it. So just be happy with it. And don't, you know, don't go crazy, because. What's the eagle's line? The wheels. Don't let your wheels drive you crazy.
- [26:27]
A
Don't let the sound of your wheels drag you down.
- [26:29]
B
There we go.
- [26:29]
C
No, it's almost there.
- [26:31]
A
This seems really mad, asking you about this, because, as I say, you've done very well. But I do think people are really interesting when they talk about their failures. And we have a question from Lux Adams. He says John was often, often unfairly dismissive of his prior work, referring to some of his greats as rubbish. Are there any of your own contributions that you sometimes secretly look back on
- [26:50]
C
and think, hmm, yeah, yeah. You know, you get some songs you think didn't really work or didn't achieve what you wanted to achieve, but you can't, can't win them all. You know, I have a song called Bip Bop, and it's just very bit pop. And I was looking back on that and thinking, gosh, how could I get away with that? But I was with Trevor Holm, the producer, and Travis. That's one of my favorites of yours. So seeing it from his perspective, I thought, you know what? He's no slouch. Maybe it's okay. But, yeah, that one, I think, wasn't that great.
- [27:38]
B
Are there songs, though, that you have to play that you sometimes think, oh, I really rather not play that one today. Because think about the amount of times you played some of the songs.
- [27:49]
C
I'm kind of lucky because I don't get that.
- [27:53]
B
Yeah.
- [27:54]
C
And you think I would with hey Jude.
- [27:57]
B
Yeah, but the audience sings all of that, don't they?
- [28:00]
C
The thing is, again, what is it you're trying to achieve if you're going out to do a show? I know who's in my audience most of the time, and it's kind of families. So it can be granddads, sort of my age, or it can be their kids. And then it could be their kids. So it's quite a spread.
- [28:22]
B
Yeah.
- [28:23]
C
So I think, well, we could do songs they don't know of. A lot of Black holes. Yeah. But they've paid a lot of money. And I. I remember as a kid, I used to go to shows, you know, and save up. I went to a Bill Haley concert.
- [28:40]
B
Yeah.
- [28:41]
C
There's a name to conjure with. But I'd saved for months and done a paper round and done everything, you know, And I knew what I wanted. I wanted him to do his hits. And if he got all clever on me, I would be okay. I'd let him indulge himself. In fact, talking about Mr. Dylan.
- [29:01]
B
Yeah.
- [29:02]
C
Bob. I've been to see a couple of shows of Bob's, and you. Really? I couldn't tell what the song was. Yeah, that he was doing. Now, that's a bit much, because, I mean, I know his stuff and, you know, I get it if he doesn't want to do Mr. Tambourine man, you know, maybe he's fed up with that. But I would like to hear it.
- [29:23]
B
Yeah.
- [29:23]
C
And I've paid.
- [29:24]
A
You could do a request. I'm sure he'd like to oblige. You could go backstage and say, you missed a couple there.
- [29:32]
B
So if you had to just have one word to describe yourself out of the two I'm about to give you. Because I. I get the feeling of. And they're not mutually exclusive, of course, but would you say you're an entertainer or an artist?
- [29:45]
C
Oh, I'd have to say an entertaining artist.
- [29:49]
B
Yes. Entertainer first, but then. Yeah. You entertained by being an artist.
- [29:53]
C
I suppose. You know, I'd like to think I was an artist. But then you do shows and you get these families and they've all paid to come in, and they're not necessarily all rich. So I think, why wouldn't I give them what they want? We put in a few songs that they don't particularly like, but we enjoy playing those.
- [30:15]
B
The band just looking at each other going, yeah, this one.
- [30:18]
C
Yeah, we love this one. But, you know, I like. I mean, particularly these days, too. You do something like hey, Jude, and you see this whole audience singing together. And in Trump's America and the Republicans and Democrats all at each other's throats when we do that song, they're not. They're all loving it. It's like, wow, this is pretty amazing. You know, suddenly this room has forgotten all of that and is not, you know, gonna argue with each other. We're all just gonna sing together. So those kind of things, I think are valuable. I like that. And I also like it for them, I think.
- [31:06]
B
Yeah. But I say, I mean, genuinely, thank you for. I mean, across the whole of culture, to achieve what you've achieved, but still to maintain that, to understand that you're entertaining, you understand that you want to bring people together, and to keep that spirit for a long time, I think is extraordinary with the ups and downs you've had. And so I know that you can't wake up and congratulate yourself on being Paul McCartney, but certainly from our listeners and from us, I want to thank you because it's very easy to have a world that didn't have Paul McCartney in it. And the world is a better place because Paul McCartney is in it.
- [31:38]
C
Thank you, Richard. And I would say I'm a fan of yours. That's all I'm gonna say.
- [31:44]
B
Let's just leave it at that.
- [31:45]
C
Let's leave it at that.
- [31:46]
A
It's never gonna get any better than that.
- [31:48]
B
Primetime Beatles. Paul, John, George, Ringo. House of Games. Who wins the trophy?
- [31:53]
C
Oh, the Beatles.
- [31:55]
B
All of them together.
- [31:56]
C
All of them together.
- [31:57]
B
Okay, that's fair enough.
- [31:57]
A
You're just gonna have to accept that. I'm afraid.
- [31:59]
C
You can't beat the Beatles, Richard.
- [32:01]
B
You can't beat the Beatles. Exactly right. You're not in the Monkeys, you're in the Beatles. So, Paul, thank you so much. Absolute pleasure. Thanks for giving me your time and also thank you for still making such brilliant music. This is.
- [32:12]
C
Thank you.
- [32:13]
B
Terrific album. I know you had a listening party this afternoon and people were in floods of tears and like a. Absolutely. See why you still got it.
- [32:20]
C
Oh, boy. Thank you so much.
- [32:23]
B
Thank you. Whoa. So, Paul McCartney, I was trying to get him to tell me which member of the Beatles would have won House of Games. I think maybe I didn't word it correctly. That's why we should always have our listeners questions instead of mine.
- [32:34]
A
Yeah. But when we were walking away and we would sort of. We were on a bit of a high and we just sort of walked down Abbey Road together, I was saying, I just think there's something about enthusiasts in life that I. Yeah, always. And increasing as I get older, funnily enough, I'm drawn to. But you can't remain like that and be. Seems so sprightly and so interested unless you're just a complete enthusiast for life. And that's what really. That's what I meant in a way about that thing, about. Have you never lost your innocence? I think there's something still really childlike in the best way about him.
- [33:07]
B
I think it's exactly it. And it's funny, surrounded by his team there, lots of people filming and all sorts of things, and just. They clearly loved him. And that speaks volumes as well, doesn't it? It's very peculiar to live in the same world as Sir Paul McCartney, given everything that he has done. Because really, he's a cultural artifact. He's like the Great Pyramids of Giza, but he's sitting there as a human being. And how wonderful, you know, in the same week that we celebrated David Attenborough's hundredth birthday, how wonderful still to have these people, these incredible titans of entertainment walking amongst us that we can chat to and listeners can ask questions too. God, I loved it so much.
- [33:49]
A
It's just completely magical. A magical day, particularly for you.
- [33:52]
B
Yeah. And do you know what? When I was walking up to the studios and I was at the road that crossed Circus Road, that crosses across Abbey Road and there's traffic lights and there was the red man. I thought, oh, shall I wait at this? Traffic lights, I think, oh, is there a zebra crossing further up? I genuinely thought it. You thought, yeah. Yes, there is a zebra crossing further up, it turned out. Thank you to Sir Paul's team. Thank you to Sir Paul as well, for absolutely everything. We had our photo taken with him.
- [34:21]
A
Yeah.
- [34:22]
B
That's all we can ask for. But most of all, thank you know, doing these interviews is so great because you guys write the questions.
- [34:28]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [34:29]
B
But we've got some more very, very interesting names coming up that we're going to be looking for questions for as well. We will announce those in due course. But in the meantime, thank you so much, listeners, for all that and thank you to support.
- [34:42]
A
Thank you so much.
- [34:59]
B
Why did we really go to war with Iraq? And did Saddam Hussein really have weapons of mass destruction? I'm Gordon Carrera, national security journalist. And I'm David McCloskey, author and former CIA analyst. We are the hosts of the Rest Is Classified. And in our latest series, we are telling the true story of one of history's biggest intelligence failures. Iraq WMD. In 2003, the US and UK told the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. But they were wrong. This wasn't a simple lie. It was something far more complicated, far more interesting, and far more dangerous. Spies who believed their sources, politicians who wanted the public to believe in the threat, and a dictator who couldn't prove he'd already destroyed weapons. In this series, we go deep inside the CIA and MI6, go into the rooms where decisions were made, and look at the sources who fabricated the intelligence that took us to war. The Iraq war reshaped the Middle east and permanently weakened public trust in governments and intelligence agencies. And its consequences are still playing out today. Plus, in a Declassified Club exclusive, we are joined by three people who were at the heart of the decision to go to war. Former head of MI6, Richard Dearlove, Tony Blair's former communications director, Alistair Campbell, and former acting head of the CIA, Michael Morell. So get the full story by listening to the Rest Is Classified and subscribing to the Declassified Club. Wherever you get your podcasts,