Prince Harry's 'Idiotic' Legal Battle

Summary

The Rest Is Entertainment

Episode: Prince Harry's 'Idiotic' Legal Battle
Date: July 13, 2026
Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde

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Overview

This week, Richard Osman and Marina Hyde provide their signature sharp, witty analysis of some of the biggest stories in entertainment and pop culture. The main focus is on Prince Harry’s recent and costly legal defeat against the Mail newspaper group, exploring its implications for privacy, press freedom, and celebrity culture. They also delve into the evolution of the UK music charts in the streaming era, dissect this summer’s “drink of the season” phenomenon, and include entertaining tangents on 90s pop nostalgia and celebrity cocktail preferences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Prince Harry's Legal Defeat Against the Mail (04:16–20:21)

• Background of the Case

  • Multiple high-profile claimants (Prince Harry, Elton John, Doreen Lawrence, Sadie Frost, Liz Hurley) sued Mail newspapers over alleged unlawful information-gathering from the 1990s to 2000s—including phone hacking, bugging, and illegal access to records.
  • The case argued that specific stories were based on these unlawful methods, but failed to provide sufficient evidence.

• Legal Outcome and Fallout

  • Prince Harry and others lost the case after a three-month trial, possibly leaving them and supporters on the hook for up to £50 million in costs.
  • Judge Mr. Justice Nicklin concluded suspicion was not enough; there was insufficient evidence on any of 97 counts.
  • Marina: “The crux of it, if I can describe a crux that turned out to be made of jelly, was that specific male stories cited... were based on these methods. [...] They just failed to produce convincing evidence on any of 97 counts. Now that is a genuine horror show.” (06:09–07:44)
  • Richard: “How is taking anything to court so expensive?” (06:35)

• Missteps and Mismanagement of the Legal Case

  • Issues with unreliable witnesses and poor preparation (e.g., Gavin Burrows, a private investigator, recanted his prior confessions).
  • Litigants made inflammatory post-verdict statements about the judge’s integrity, jeopardizing their insurance coverage for legal costs.
  • Marina: “It is so incredibly dumb and self destructive to attack the judge. [...] You’ve effectively pushed them into removing the spending caps because. And in terms of who will pay, you know, and how much it will be Elton John and Prince Harry. Because they’ve got the money.” (14:45–15:12)

• Broader Reflection: Press Freedom vs. Privacy

  • While phone hacking was a genuine scandal, and many public figures were indeed victimized, Marina argues that legal recourse was always risky and ill-advised.
  • She emphasizes the importance of press freedom currently, given growing threats from political figures targeting journalists.
  • “Journalism is really under threat… we need the press to investigate. I care far more about press freedom in the here and now than I do about, I’m sorry to say, about phone hacking…” (15:54–17:37)
  • Richard: “Harry will never get the closure that he wants. He wants someone to stand up there and say, ‘We wronged you…’ but I don’t think he’s ever gonna get that closure.” (19:05)

• Notable Quote: Marina Hyde:

  • “For me, you know, that period is over...the thing that gets me now most particularly is that journalism is really under threat... Now more than ever, I think this should be the line underneath it and people should get behind anything that throws daylight on anything.” (15:15–16:56)

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2. The Evolution of the UK Music Charts (24:04–36:12)

• The Old Monoculture vs. Streaming Era

  • Discussion starts with the historic chart performance of “Love Is All Around” (Wet Wet Wet) and how it was recently overtaken by “Raymond” by Sam Fender and Olivia Dean.
  • Modern chart hits, especially in the streaming era, don’t necessarily have the same pervasive, cultural feel as classic, omnipresent hits like “Wonderwall” or “Everything I Do (I Do It for You)”.
  • Richard: “It’s a great, great song, but fascinating that it beats Love Is All Around and yet it’s not a song that I would say is absolutely the heart of our culture.” (25:27)

• Streaming's Impact on Longevity and Chart Dynamics

  • Songs now take longer to rise and linger much longer at the top, helped by algorithms and user playlists, not single-purchase urgency.
  • Physical sales in the 80s and 90s created cultural moments that are less common now.
  • Marina: “There’s much more churn down the bottom...but the top is...sticky hits, right? Streaming.” (27:50–28:03)
  • Richard: “It’s why we don’t have Top of the Pops anymore; it would literally be the same songs every week.” (28:06)

• Pinpointing the Shift:

  • Richard traces the decline of chart culture to 2014/2015 when streaming began counting for chart positions.
  • Notable Data Points:
    • In 2011, Spotify had under 1 million UK users; by 2014, 75 million.
    • After streaming became chart-eligible, million-selling singles vanished.
    • Bohemian Rhapsody is the only song on both the “most sold” and “most streamed” UK charts. (33:39–33:44)
  • “8th of February, 2015 is the day that people stop paying musicians.” (36:07)

• Quotes & Moments:

  • Richard: “Not the day the music died, but the day the selling died.” (32:43)
  • “Some of the biggest companies in the world are drinks companies... for every fun little photo of Aperol Spritz, there’s like a multi, multi, multi billion industry.” (45:20)

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3. Drinks of the Summer: Fashion, Marketing, and Social Signaling (37:45–46:42)

• What Is the “Drink of the Summer”?

  • Analysis of how drinks like Aperol Spritz, Hugo Spritz, and “vodka cran” gain trendy status through visual appeal and clever marketing.
  • Origins of classics like the vodka cranberry—originally created and named “Red Devil” by Ocean Spray (41:02–41:20).
  • The huge rise of visually appealing, easy-to-photograph drinks (“fashion for drinks”) and their presence on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok (DrinkTok).
  • Influence of celebrities as brand faces (e.g., Sophie Turner for Hugo Spritz).

• Generational Differences in Drink Trends

  • Teens and tweens: the “Strawberry Acai Lemonade Refresher” from Starbucks is the drink-of-choice (“DrinkTok” phenomenon).
  • “75% of drinks Starbucks now sells are cold. And this strawberry acai lemonade refresher is absolutely huge amongst… you can’t move for it on, you know, people posting pictures of it.” (43:40–43:53)

• Dirty Soda & Drink Personalization

  • Mention of “dirty soda”—a fizzy drink with cream and syrup, hugely popular in certain subcultures.

• Marketing Insights

  • Marina: “These people are paying to be your… we all pay to be their influencers. It’s clever, it’s unbelievable. And the same with the tweens. And the same with their drink talk.” (45:38)

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4. Recommendations & Pop Culture Tangents (46:42–End)

• Music: Madonna’s new album Confessions 2 praised as a pop highlight that nods to her legacy. (46:48–47:21)
• TV: Richard recommends Widow’s Bay—a “comedy horror” starring Matthew Rhys, written by Katie Dippold. “It’s kind of funny, quirky, it’s a bit scary bits of it, but it is, you know, the humor kind of overrides everything.” (47:21–48:11)
• Quiz Show Appreciation: Announcement of a special members’ section “World Cup of UK Quizzes” featuring Pointless, The Chase, Mastermind, and more. (48:15–48:36)

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Notable Quotes

• Richard Osman (re: Harry’s case): "How is taking anything to court so expensive?" (06:35)
• Marina Hyde: “For me, you know, that period is over. Okay?...Journalism is really under threat. Look at Nigel Farage's address last week… We need the press to investigate... Now more than ever, I think this should be the line underneath it and people should get behind anything that throws daylight on anything.” (15:54–16:56)
• Richard Osman: “It’s why we don’t have Top of the Pops anymore. It would literally be the same songs every week…” (28:06)
• Marina Hyde (on drinks): “Apple oil Spritz used to be like a cheap sort of kind of rock space bar drink. Backstreet thing. [...] They changed everything. [...] The visuals of drinks are very, very important. The platforms have completely changed our material world.” (38:24–40:05)
• Richard Osman: “But the taste is very much the last...part of that.” (40:44)

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Key Timestamps

• Main content begins – [02:48]
• Prince Harry & Mail legal case – [04:16–20:21]
• UK chart records, streaming era analysis – [24:04–36:12]
• 90s pop nostalgia & chart monoculture – [21:19–22:48]
• Drink of the summer trends – [37:45–46:42]
• Recommendations & outro – [46:42–End]

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Memorable Moments & Tangents

• “Leaky sieve” running joke about bad metaphors (20:21).
• Marin’s nostalgia for Christian Slater (36:34–36:57).
• Collaborative joking about “Big Sieve”—as a private investigator name (20:56).

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Conclusion

Richard and Marina’s episode delivers a lively, insightful look at the waning of the privacy lawsuits era, the shifting sands of pop culture in a streaming world, and the ways marketing shapes our summer habits—from music charts to what’s in your glass. They balance skepticism with genuine pop enthusiasm, making this a must-listen for anyone invested in the intersection of entertainment and society.

Transcript

[Marina Hyde]

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[Richard Osman]

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[Marina Hyde]

Well, it means like you've been around a long time, but people suddenly think,

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

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[Richard Osman]

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[Marina Hyde]

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[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

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[Marina Hyde]

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[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

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[Marina Hyde]

Jean Smart is extraordinary. She did a huge amount of TV and stad stage work and there was a sense that she was sort of always brilliant.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

But then this one role came along, Deborah Vance. In Hacks, they literally just give her the Emmy every year now.

[Marina Hyde]

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[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

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[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

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[Marina Hyde]

an apology, it's just because someone was

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

going through something and they. You get your flowers.

[Richard Osman]

Another example of they seem to do business in a very interesting and customer focused way. Imagine if Jean Smart is an Octopus customer, might get her flowers twice.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, every week.

[Richard Osman]

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[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

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[Richard Osman]

And sometimes it doesn't. Even the Technicolor. Put on a black and white thriller set on the Italian coast and I'll enjoy the mystery. But part of me is already working out which flight gets me nearest, preferably with less identity theft and bluer skies.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

For me it is Greece. Once the rumors started that a certain star studded musical was returning to the islands, that was all I needed. I was thinking about departures.

[Richard Osman]

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[Marina Hyde]

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment with me, Marina

[Richard Osman]

Hyde, and me, Richard Osman. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

How are you?

[Richard Osman]

I'm all right. Still hot. How has your week been?

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, it's been great. Went to Wimbledon on Sunday.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yesterday.

[Richard Osman]

Whoa.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It was epic. I hear there's another royal box. Guess who was in my box?

[Richard Osman]

Who's in your box?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Martin Short, Steve Martin and Meryl Streep.

[Marina Hyde]

I met the producer of Only Murders

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

in the Building is a big listener to this podcast. Hello, Jess. He was wonderful.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, my God, that's amazing.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, it was epic.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, I love Meryl Streep and I love Martin Short, but Steve Martin, Come on. Wow.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, that's amazing. Okay, for on air stuff, I have a gift for you as well.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

No.

[Richard Osman]

Which is true of my new novel, We Solve Murders. No, not We Solve Murders. We Chase Shadows. It's the follow up to We Solve Murders.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

This is so exciting. I've been absolutely. Okay, to the camera, please. I've been so dying for this. I really need this. I need to escape significant portions of my life at the moment, and this is how I'm going to be doing it. I'm so excited.

[Richard Osman]

On September 15th. And these are proofs. We talked about that before, which is you send out to a few. To reviewers and things like that. Significant people in one's life.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Okay. I'm so excited. This is great.

[Richard Osman]

Whenever you go on like this morning or something, you always have a publicist with like five copies of your book and all they do is put them up, like face up like this on the desk. And then the producers come in and just put them down. Just a little dance. What are we talking about this week?

[Marina Hyde]

We are talking about Prince Harry and others have lost their phone hacking and illegal interception of information and bugging and things like that case against the mail. And we're going to be talking about that, what it means. It's kind of an end of an era for lots of those things. But I would like to talk about it. Cause I think it's very interesting.

[Richard Osman]

I would like to as well because it seems quite opaque and I've been waiting to get your take on it. We are also going to talk about the most successful UK song in British chart history. Do you know what it is? You'll find out what it is, I guess, in the second bit of the show. But it's a shocker. But also about what happened to, you know, that culture where everyone knew every song.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yes. And we're going to be talking, I love this one about drinks of the summer. What is the drink of this summer? And why do we have the impression that there is one?

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And also why is there more money in that than any other industry we ever talk about?

[Marina Hyde]

Let's start with Prince Harry and the Mail. There were various claimants in this case. It's Prince Harry, Elton John, Doreen Lawrence, the mother of the murdered black teenager, Stephen Lawrence, Sadie Frost, Liz Hurley. And they accused male newspapers of obtaining private information via unlawful methods between the 1990s and the 2000s.

[Richard Osman]

And it's been going on a long time. Right. And Harry was looking for really significant damages and also just for some vindication as well, I think. Yeah, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, I mean, as you know, there have been other cases. This one alleged phone hacking, bugging homes and cars, using private investigators, obtaining financial and medical records illegally. And the crux of it, if I can describe a crux that turned out to be made of jelly, was that specific male stories cited, mail stories, were based on these methods. Now, Prince Harry and others, as you know, have had, which we'll get to have had, other cases against newspaper groups which weren't based in that, in that same way on specific articles.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

He.

[Marina Hyde]

He's won a phone hacking case against Mirror Group. He got a settlement and apology from newsgroup newspapers who published the sun and once published the News the World.

[Richard Osman]

So that was more about proving there was a culture of it at those organizations. And this is, this is a different

[Marina Hyde]

way of going about it and we'll get into the weeds of it in a second. Suffice to say, it was a three month trial. The kind of overall costs for all parties, both sides, is maybe 50 million. It's insane.

[Richard Osman]

How is taking anything to court so expensive?

[Marina Hyde]

It's unbelievable. It obviously involves huge teams of lawyers, whatever. I mean, lawyers are very, very expensive. And they lost and the judge who's Mr. Justice Nicklin said that the suspicion was. Suspicion was not enough. They didn't prove their at all. And there were unreliable witnesses which we'll get to Prince Harry and the others came out and said straight after that this is a complete and obvious whitewash. Oh my God. I'm going to come to the wisdom

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

of that or otherwise in a minute

[Richard Osman]

because you're not supposed to say that.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, let's get to it. Before we go on, I would like to say that I have absolutely no. In fact, I know I have absolutely no doubt that there was phone hacking of individuals. And I think on the balance of probability these individuals, some of them have already obtained settlements from other newspaper groups. I'm not suggesting which titles did it, but it did occur, but not provably in these cases. Other cases have been proved. The fact is they just failed to produce convincing evidence on any of 97 counts. Now that is a genuine horror show.

[Richard Osman]

Was that 97 sort of individual stories that they were saying that, that they had.

[Marina Hyde]

These have derived from.

[Richard Osman]

They could argue what had been derived from that and they had evidence to back that up in court, but they didn't.

[Marina Hyde]

And it. They did not have a case and the indictment from the judge was just incredibly damning. And I mean, you know, I've said this so many times on this podcast before and say it to anyone, you know, never litigate. Basically it is unless there is absolutely nothing you can do bar litigate. And in this case, they, the claimants seem to have been gingered along, whether by lawyers or activists, no pun intended, lawyers or activists or whoever. And I do think that if you are any lawyer, in any case, a decent thing to do is to make the person you're representing aware of the risk others got out. You know, someone like Hugh Grant who is arguably, you know, I mean, not

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

even arguably, it's a lot cannier than

[Marina Hyde]

Prince Harry got out because people realize that if they don't win then their life eyeball for all the costs and it can sort of bankrupt you and it's just not worth it.

[Richard Osman]

And so you think it was obvious, it was a leaky sieve right from the start.

[Kati K]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

There are certain things that happened that I would say, what on earth happened with the preparation here? There was a thing where Prince Harry was kind of sniffing to one of the lawyers. You know, I've never been to a carnival.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I don't know what you're talking about. It's like, oh well, it's in your autobiography.

[Marina Hyde]

You know, this is like, okay, the decent thing to do is to make people aware of risks. And David Shcherburn, who was the leading lawyer in this case and in lots of the phone hacking stuff, not a Casey. Quite interesting when someone who's been that

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

long in the public guy is not a Casey.

[Marina Hyde]

But I will say about phone hacking that it was investigated incredibly poorly, most particularly by the Metropolitan Police for reasons

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

upon which many of us can speculate.

[Richard Osman]

That'll be one for the rest is history in 50 years time.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. And it is becoming very historical. This hacked off. Who's the sort of campaign against, you know, campaign for press standards. And they've had, they've got various leading lights of it. They had, they got a guy called Graham Johnson, he was a Sunday Mirror, self confessed phone hacker. In fact, I think, you know, when he thought, when he saw his colleagues being arrested, he volunteered voluntarily, confessed to the police and he recruited a guy called Gavin Burrows who was some, you

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

know, kind of sea. Sea beast. Private investigator.

[Richard Osman]

It's a good name for a private investigator.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I mean, take a look at him. It's like it's absolute central casting, this guy.

[Richard Osman]

Gavin Burrows.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Gavin Burrows, yeah.

[Richard Osman]

He might as well be called Steve Delves.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Gavin Burrows was a private investigator who seemed willing to confess to carrying out all kinds of crimes on behalf of the Mail. And I think he ended up getting paid 5k a month by people, people investigating on behalf of the litigants. And he said he'd hacked them and bugged them all at home in places that he'd been in places they'd visited. He and Graham Johnson eventually fall out and then he switches side. Gavin Burrows switches sides, completely disavows his state. Earlier statements that are, you know, by this point, you know, part of the evidence.

[Richard Osman]

Well, presumably they're the smoking. They're the real smoking gun.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, he detonated his credibility obviously on purpose and now says he never worked for them again. I want to come back to the victims because all of these people I believe I know have been victims of phone hacking. Many of them have been involved in other settlements, whatever, and I have absolutely no doubt that they're completely traumatized and remain traumatized by those years. And in the way where lots of us have had bad things happen to us, you can carry on blaming it for lots of other things in sort of perpetuity. And it obviously gave rise to enormous paranoia amongst people who couldn't understand. And some of them lost friends because they thought they were leaking all those sorts of things. The judge did say that some of them were prone to reconstruction. And it is that sort of thing of being in the rear view mirror and saying these things happened.

[Richard Osman]

Well if a judge says you're prone to reconstruction, I mean that's, that's because they're so polite.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I mean I thought it was. The indictment was like nothing I had

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

read for a long time.

[Marina Hyde]

It's really damning. And again, I think, you know, they've been led from behind by campaigners who will not be paying for this.

[Richard Osman]

Right.

[Marina Hyde]

So we're going to have to go for the cost now because as I said, I think people estimate that the overall thing is 50 million. Now associated, which is a newspaper group that owns the male titles. They are from what, from all the briefing that you're reading now or you can see now and from what I've heard, they're going to go for the removal of spending caps because they're just, they've said they're going to go. Someone said they're going to go for the jugular. There's a hearing.

[Richard Osman]

So what does that mean, removal of spending caps?

[Marina Hyde]

It means that there's certain they have limits at the moment, the moment on how big the payout can get for. Because these cases that we've tried to try to limit the costs of things in our legal system successfully sometimes and other times not successfully. There is a hearing in a couple of weeks where the same judge is going to hear representations as to what and probably from associated to why we want, you know, the claimants to be left with 50 million in bills. The litigants, those litigants did have the claims. They had a level of indemnity insurance which you can, you can take out insurance. I think they had some sort of Guildford based firm and they, they've got a level of insurance which will take you up to say 14 million. Say that's an estimate.

[Richard Osman]

What I call a Guildford based.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, not well, but there's, it's quite a specialist thing to provide, you know, indemnity insurance on this stuff, but it's nowhere near 50. Having said that again, I mean talk about bad advice. Your conduct after a trial matters. This is why when people come down the steps of a courtroom and they say things like we're incredibly disappointed in the verdict. This is fine. These are emotions. You can have feelings about this or that. Instead they attack the judges. There's a statement which attacked the judge's integrity. They sort of suggested that he was part of party pre effectively crooked and that they hadn't been given justice and

[Richard Osman]

who would have signed off that statement. Is that the litigants or the lawyers or a bit of both.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, they've all. I don't think actually that the litigants. I think that that has come from some of the claimants on behalf of all of them. Certainly it would have come from Prince Harry, but I think that there are many in that legal team who understand that it was a stupid thing to do. It is so incredibly dumb and self destructive to attack the judge. And afterwards, when you, when you could be on the hook for these enormous costs, I. It could. And, and also what the insurers may say, well, I'm so sorry you voided your insurance because what you did was so incendiary and so, you know, whatever. That you've effectively pushed them into removing the spending caps because. And in terms of who will pay.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

You know, and how much. And how much it will be Elton John and Prince Harry. Because they've got the money.

[Richard Osman]

Well, Elton does, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

I mean, I don't know about Prince Harry's finances. We know so little, but he's.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I mean, I don't think he's ever struggled, but the way he likes to tell, it's a church mouth.

[Richard Osman]

Either way, if you're paying 25 million, that's.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, you've got to be out.

[Richard Osman]

That's going to make a dent, isn't it?

[Marina Hyde]

So anyway, in terms of what I.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

What the takeout for us should be,

[Marina Hyde]

I think for sure phone hacking was massive and widespread and never properly punished in terms of the people who did it, other than financially. Now, it has cost these titles so many countless hundreds of millions to defend. They have been absolutely hit where it hurts financially. Good. They deserved it. News UK alone, they think, have taken more than 1.2 billion in losses. Hundreds of millions have been paid to victims. We don't know how much because many of them settle privately and whatever.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I mean, an unbelievable amount to lawyers, as always, as he said.

[Marina Hyde]

But for me, you know, that period is over. Okay? Life is not perfect. As I say, lots of individuals melted back into journalism, into executive positions, into very senior executive positions who knew about this stuff and allowed it to happen. But it is what it is now. And the thing that gets me now most particularly is that journalism is really under threat. Look at Nigel Farage's address last week when he's going after specific journalists, specific titles. We know Trump has done every single thing in his power to attack press freedom. Nigel Farage last week was saying, you know, look at what Sky News have done. And if you Actually, look at the footage. Sky News have come to a property which I wonder, we don't know, maybe it's in his name and they've just knocked on the door. That is legitimate, okay? That is a legitimate inquiry within our politics. I care far more about press freedom in the here and now than I do about, I'm sorry to say, about Phone Haggin, which, as I say, the titles have been hit where it hurts. The balance is now tipped. We have weirder money than ever in our society and our politics and we need the press to investigate. This would have been a real. I think this would have been very, very difficult for press freedom. And you know who investigated Farage? Not. Certainly not. Certainly not hacked off or Prince Harry. Right. Journalists did it. In fact, phone hacking was originally restigated by a journalist, by Nick Davis at the Guardian. And you've now had, I mean, just going back to Farage, you had two stories in the last very, in very short order, one from the Guardian which found the matter of the 5 million donation from this Thai based crypto billionaire.

[Richard Osman]

And if you can't trust a Thai based crypto billionaire, who can you trust?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

What the hell?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, Then you've got the Sunday Times and Times doing various things. Now, the donations that Farosh has taken from this convicted fraudster and his mother of indeterminate funding sources, you might think that's pretty quick for two stories to come up. Maybe there's more to come, but the people who will investigate it, I have to say, will be journalists. And you don't see that. I mean, people need to cover showbiz stories now. They just sit on people's Instagram accounts and it's not done in the same way it was at all. But I do think these are really dangerous times in terms of freedom of speech, press freedom and massive amounts of unexplained money in our politics. And now more than ever, I think this should be the line underneath it and people should get behind anything that throws daylight on anything. And I'm sorry for all litigants in these cases. Many of them have received payouts. I think people know what happened, but it is over. And I think that it's becoming quite difficult to support, you know, a prince versus a business which is trying to expose things that are wrong.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Amongst our.

[Marina Hyde]

This was an institutional failure. Let's be really honest. This was a massive institutional failure. Phone hacking. But, but I, I think it has been put right as much as in an imperfect world.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, it's because, listen, I, I absolutely agree with the thrust of what you say, but in Terms of the 19th century Novel of this whole thing is Harry will never get the closure that he wants. He wants someone to stand up there and said, we wronged you. We did it deliberately. This is what we did. And you can see, you know, why, you know, where he's come from. That will never go away for him. But I don't think he's ever gonna get that closure. Right?

[Marina Hyde]

No, no, he's never gonna get that closure. And it's, you know, it's a. It's too crass to do the sort of pop psychology. But, yeah, it's never gonna bring her back. You know, it's really. It's really awful. And I feel very. And without any question, these people were victims of it. But I think the sort of leading from behind needs to stop because the times have moved on now and we have to move on. And amazing journalism is being done about some of the most vital issues in our society. And I think that I'm pleased that we haven't ended up with tighter controls on press freedom as a result.

[Richard Osman]

And so do you think there's ever going to be this Levison 2 inquiry, the follow up to the first one?

[Marina Hyde]

Do you remember that Kevin Costner movie, Horizon?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

And he said there were going to be four parts of it and the first one fell off the screen and the second one he pushed out.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay, Horizon 4.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

You are more likely to see Horizon 4 than Leveson 2.

[Richard Osman]

Can I just say all the way through that, because that was fascinating, so thank you for that. But all the way through, I was thinking that I said the phrase a leaky sieve and I was really angry with myself because, I mean, of course a sieve is leaky. I mean, it's. But I mean, if you had a non leaky sieve, you'd take it back.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

I mean, wouldn't you?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Hopefully someone will take us to court just for you doing that.

[Richard Osman]

But really the case was a sieve.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Or a leaky bucket.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

But not a leaky sieve, which would be a great case to take.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah. I mean, otherwise Big Sieve will come after you and you don't want that.

[Richard Osman]

Big Siv is a great name for a character.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

A private investigator.

[Richard Osman]

Big Siv Burrows.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Big Siv.

[Richard Osman]

Big Sift. Shall we go to some adverts?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Let's do that.

[Richard Osman]

This episode is brought to you by the Lloyds 5K house deposit.

[Marina Hyde]

Lloyds are offering a 5K house deposit, which was last seen in 1996.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

What are your entertainment memories of the 1990s.

[Richard Osman]

I feel guilty talking about the 1990s because you look back and it was, it was such a golden era.

[Marina Hyde]

We'd never had it so good and we didn't even realize because we were

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

young and we just thought we were entitled to it all.

[Richard Osman]

We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah. Brit pop was absolutely in its pomp oasis playing to a quarter of a million people. You had Blur, Sway, Scarlet.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I'm so sorry.

[Richard Osman]

Spice Girls, amazing movies at the cinema, train spotting. I mean, it felt a time of absolute optimism, but at the time you just assumed that was the way that

[Marina Hyde]

a very British type of optimism.

[Richard Osman]

But part of the optimism, of course, is that mortgages were more affordable and that is what Lloyds is dealing with right now.

[Kati K]

Yep.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Last seen in 1996, Lloyds are now

[Marina Hyde]

offering 5K deposit mortgages to first time buyers. Search 5K First Time Buyer 1996 Average

[Richard Osman]

first time buyer deposits based on ONS data subject to status. Your home may be repossessed if you don't keep up repayments conditions apply this summer.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

Say I do.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I am marrying a stranger like never before.

[Marina Hyde]

Am I crazy?

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

It's a whole new Married at First Sight on Peacock. Thank God. I woke up in love with new experts.

[Christy from Lululemon]

My name is Dr. Lisa.

[Richard Osman]

My name is Paul Brunson.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

Lord couples. This could be the start of a very successful marriage. And Lord surprises. Or maybe not.

[Marina Hyde]

Everything is just not.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

You're a little bit crazy.

[Marina Hyde]

I don't know what's gonna happen.

[Christy from Lululemon]

I want my fairy tale ending.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

Married at First Sight now. Streaming new episodes Thursdays only on Peacock.

[Dominic from Rest is History]

Hi everybody, it's Dominic here from the Rest is History. I just wanted to let you all know that on our sister podcast, the Book Club, we have just released an episode digging deep into George R.R. martin's A game of Thrones, the first book in his Song of Ice and Fire sequence. We go deep into the history behind Game of Thrones. So we go into the wars of the Roses, Hadrian's Wall. We talk about the influence of JRR Tolkien and in comparisons with the Lord of the Rings. But Tabby, we also talk, don't we, about George R.R. martin's apparent stagnation and whether he's actually ever going to finish the books.

[Tabby from Rest is History]

We investigate why it is that he has battled to finish them at all and whether he will ever be able to. But if you want to hear lots more about the history behind some of the greatest novels of all time, fear not. Coming up on the book club, we have the Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi Delampertusa, which is all about Italian unification. We talk about Circe, where we delve into a particular part of the Odyssey. And then after that, we are doing the 39 steps, which, Dominic, you chose and you love.

[Dominic from Rest is History]

Please join us at the book club. It's loads of fun and you will never find a better way to spend your life.

[Christy from Lululemon]

Bye.

[Dominic from Rest is History]

Bye.

[Christy from Lululemon]

Bye.

[Richard Osman]

Welcome back, everyone. Now, Marina, would you like to take a listen to what was, until this week, the most successful chart song by a UK actor of all time?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I most certainly would.

[Richard Osman]

Okay. It is this. You might recognize it. Wet Wet With Love is All around, so catchy. Everyone at home is now, despite themselves, singing along. They're continuing it. We know it came from four is in a funeral, 1994. In the end, they had to stop pressing the song because everyone got so annoyed with it. Part of our culture, I would say, absolutely part of our culture. Very few people who would not recognize that song or sing along to that song. Now, I'm going to play you another song which some people would have heard, but I'll bet there are other people who haven't heard. And this has just overtaken Love Is all around as the most successful ever chart song by a UK act. 16 weeks at number one for Raymond by Sam Fender and Olivia Dean. It's got some musical similarities to Love Is all around, but I love Sam Fender, I love Olivia Dean. That's the two of them together. 16 weeks at number one. I would say absolutely. It's a great, great song, but fascinating that it beats Love Is all around and yet it's not a song that I would say is absolutely the heart of our culture.

[Marina Hyde]

It's not like one of these songs that, like, I don't know, things like Wonderwall or, like New Rules or Adele, things that just suddenly just seem for, like they've taken over the world. It doesn't have that feeling. And I know you're gonna tell us why.

[Richard Osman]

Well, yeah, well, we will get onto Wonderwall later, actually. But, yeah, what I really wanted to think about. Cause of course, when number one and when Brian Adams was number one with everything I do, I do it for you, which Raymond has just tied with. But of course, Brian Adams is not from the uk, but Sam Fender and Olivia Dean might break his record next week as well if they stay at number one for another week. Now, Wet, Wet, Wet and Bryant Adams sold physical singles. To go into a shop, you had to physically, actively buy one. Whereas Sam Fender and Olivia Dean. We now live in the age where Streaming is a huge part of. Of how a song gets into the charts and how it stays in the charts and why songs stay around for quite so long. The actual story of Ray Meehan is fascinating. It tells you everything you need to know about streaming. So it was Sam Fender's third album. It was like track eight on his third album. It was the sixth single released from that album. And by the way, Sam Fender sells a lot of physical copies of his albums. People buy physical versions of Sam Finder's stuff. And he's also brilliant. If people don't know him genuinely, he's fantastic. But that song, as I say, sixth single from the album, went into the charts at number 86 in its first week. Olivia Dean was on tour with him. We talked about this a little before, came and sang it with him. And then she and one of her songwriters wrote a verse. They released that it's about the breakup.

[Marina Hyde]

We should say it's about the breakup of a relationship from the kind of

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

guy's point of view. But she added a kind of rejoinder. And that is what has.

[Richard Osman]

From the female point of view, which really, really, really works. And they clearly have enormous respect for each other. And Olivia Dean is now so, you know, she was supporting him and she's now so uber enormous that it's a real juggernaut. And it's a really lovely song as well. But it took 36 weeks to get to number one. That song took 36 weeks to get to number 1. It's now been number one for 16 weeks as well. It's been in the charts for over a year. And these are things that didn't used to happen. Right when we had physical singles, you know, the first four or five weeks, you know, you'd get the odd song like Wet, Wet, Wet or Brian Adams that would stick around for three months, but not else. Whereas you look at the charts now, you know, as it was by Harry Styles is still in the top 75. I mean these things now songs stay

[Marina Hyde]

something like three times longer than they were in the 60s. What's interesting, but I will probably get

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

to this in a minute.

[Marina Hyde]

But there's much more churn down the bottom that has never been more churn

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

filled that section of the charts. But the top is.

[Richard Osman]

It's.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, I mean, it's why it creates sticky hits, right? Steam streaming.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It just.

[Richard Osman]

And it's why we don't have Top of the Pops anymore because it would literally be the same songs every. I think the highest new entry in the chart this week is like number 38 or something. I mean, it is, you know, it's. It's just the charts are not what they used to be. I think it's interesting. So it made me really think about streaming because, you know, streaming came in 2014, started counting in the charts. So I wanted to look back and I don't try and pinpoint the exact date at which streaming killed physical music.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I love you for doing this.

[Richard Osman]

And I have an exact date written down. I did a couple of things. So firstly, I looked at the top 50 best selling singles of all time. So those are the ones that, that physically sold copies, right. Which is not something we really look at now. And of those 50, there's one was from the 1950s, that's Bill Haley. And the comics rock around the clock. There's only four from the 60s. The three of those are the Beatles. One of them's Ken Dodd. In the 70s, we have eight of them. You've got things like Bohemian Rhapsody, Muddle Kintyre. You're the one that I want. Rivers of Babylon. That kind of, you know, era when songs again sort of hung around for a whole summer. In the 80s we had 11. You got things like band aid. Relax, last Christ 90s we had 15. So I was really, you know, ramping up. You would think that that's the point. So we were really still buying a huge amount of music, physical music, vinyl music, CD music. In the 90s that you got Barbie Girl, you got Brian Adams and Wet Wet Wet, Britney Spears, things like that. In the 2000s there's only three. Black Eyed Peas is one, Will Young is one. Then 2004, they start including digital downloads in the chart. So digital downloads still counts as a physical copy of a song because you are paying for it. And once you pay for it, you own it. Okay, so you got people going into Woolworths and buying, you know, a vinyl 70 inch single. But you've also got people literally physically buying music from 2004, whatever it is. Yeah, exactly. And that brings a huge glut of million sellers in the first part of those from like 2011 to 2014. How about this for a run of songs? You have got Adele, someone like you, 2011, 2011, moves like Jagger, Maroon 5, 2012, somebody that I used to know. Gotcha. 2013 Happy by Pharrell. One of the top 10 selling singles of all time. Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke, Get Lucky by Daft Punk, Wake Me up by avicii. And then 2014, Uptown Funk by Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars. I Mean, that is a absolute sort of what a golden era. They are all selling over a million there because that was the prime time of digital downloads. So not only were you. There's still some physical music being bought in shops, there's also these digital downloads. But when did we stop buying music at all? And that era of 2011-2014 is the absolute key. Okay? There's the complete key. In 2011, when Adele was at number one with someone like you, when she sold over a million, Spotify had fewer than 1 million users. Okay, fewer than 1 million in 2011, in 2014, when Uptown Funk. It's just this period of three or four years with these huge sellers and people paying for music, literally paying quite a lot of money. Giving money, giving money to artists to exchange for something. When Uptown funk was number one end of 2014, 75 million users. So just those three years have gone from under 1 million to 75 million. And what happened in the middle of that is in 2014, the chart started letting streaming in. So from 2014, so Uptown Funk in 2014, after that, after Uptown Funk. So we've had, you know, eight songs in those three years which are amongst the 50 best selling singles of all time. How many do you think since 2014 have been in the the top 50 best selling songs of all time? Zero. Not a single one. Uptown Funk was the last ever. The last ever one after this incredible run. And literally just six months after streaming was allowed into the the UK charts.

[Marina Hyde]

I love this. Also I love the fact that your notes, which I can see though not

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

read, literally look like you've killed them. Well, again, yes, you've really got into this.

[Richard Osman]

I'm like Charlie Day. Yeah, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. No, I really, I really, really did get into it. And more to the point, with Uptown Funk, not only was it the last ever song to be in that top 50, it also was the first song ever to have 2 million plus streams in a week. The first song in UK chart history. So it was the last song ever that people actually bought and it was the first song ever that people really started streaming. So the day that got knocked off number one, I'm gonna say is the day, the final day, when streaming finally

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

beat the selling of music. Not the day the music died, but

[Richard Osman]

the day the selling day the selling and music died. And that was the 8th of February 2015. So 8th of 20.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Wow.

[Richard Osman]

We have not had a single song that has been in the the top 50, if you look at the streaming charts is fascinating and Almost every song is after that era. Almost every song to the extent that. So You've got the 50 best selling songs of all time in the UK.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

You've got the 50 most streamed songs of all time in the UK. You would think there'd be a fair bit of crossover there. Some of the biggest songs of all time. You would think there's a fair bit of crossover. There are only two songs on both those lists.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Wow.

[Richard Osman]

One of which won't be there for long because it's Avicii, Wake Me up. Which is number 50. Yeah. Even let's assume that was this month's figures, but next month that probably won't be on there. So there is only one song in the history of UK chart music. There will be very soon. That is in the 50 best selling singles of all time and the 50 most streamed singles of all time. Do you know what that is?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

What is it?

[Richard Osman]

It's the song that eats everything before it is Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen.

[Marina Hyde]

Gosh.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

That's pretty impressive, isn't it?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It is.

[Richard Osman]

So what happens this week? So Ramier might beat Bryan Adams this week. Is that important? Music is different to how it used to be, for sure. We don't have the monoculture we used to have, that's for sure. But this is how we measure the charts. And this incredible song by these two incredible artists has.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And it's by the way, and we've spoken a bit before about how the charts are done. It's very, very hard to keep at the top of the charts these days

[Marina Hyde]

because they try and they try and

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

handicap you, basically, so.

[Marina Hyde]

So that you don't.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It does. There is some movement.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. So, you know, it's an incredible achievement. If. So, if it can be Brian Adams this week, it'll be 17 weeks at number one. I think possibly it might not. I think it might be knocked off the number one this week. And it all depends on what happens in Atlanta on Wednesday evening. Would you like to have a listen?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yes, I will.

[Richard Osman]

To the song. Song, I think might be number one this week. And scupper that record, The unofficial anthem of the England World cup team.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, that was and is a cultural phenomenon.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Never got to number one when it came out.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Now that to me is a something that you just heard across the country and it just felt like it was. Everyone was in its grip.

[Richard Osman]

Incredibly catchy. Sort of a cross between a ballad and a rocker.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

It's become this anthem that they're singing at the end of every England game. If we go out then it will fall off a cliff, just like Christmas songs do on the 26th of December. But if we go through, I say we England go through, then that might scupper Sam Fender and Olivia Dean. They'd probably be happy about that anyway. Yeah, Be quite a nice thing to lose to. And that is, funnily enough, on the. The list of the 50 biggest selling singles of all time. And you never know, could just get onto that list of top streamers as well. Got to get to like three and a half billion. Although it doesn't feel like the sort of achievement that it was when Wet did it and Brian Adams did it. I just think it's a different type of achievement in a different generation. And I think it's a great song. And I think if you worry about modern music, you look at the entire recorded works of Sam Fender, you look at the entire recorded works of Olivia Dean and we're in pretty good shape. But I've really, really enjoyed looking back through the thing.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

But yeah, that's amazing.

[Richard Osman]

8th of February, 2015 is the day that people stop paying musicians.

[Marina Hyde]

It's also fascinating how many, like how. How movies just sold songs like. Yeah, both of those other two songs are sold off the back of Four Weddings and Funeral, which obviously became, if not phenomenal. And Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marina Hyde]

And you know how Christian Slater in the video.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

So I think that's probably what sold the song for me. But even happy wasn't what happened to Christian Slater?

[Richard Osman]

What happened to Christian Slater?

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, my God. He had an incredible run for like

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

the late 80s and early 90s.

[Marina Hyde]

And I loved him so much.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I could do a whole bonus series on the guys who were on my wall. I mean, big time, but. And questions later, I would like to give some proper attention to. I loved him so much.

[Richard Osman]

So you would like to give some proper attention?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, I would, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

I mean, that was. That was the point, you know, that's

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

why they're on your wall. Sorry.

[Marina Hyde]

That's the reality guy.

[Richard Osman]

I knew this chat chat would end with Christian Satan.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Sorry, I just couldn't keep a lid on it.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, you know, he's in the video. He'. I can't believe actually Kevin Costner or

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

his agent allowed him to be in the film with Kevin Costner with that dreadful hair.

[Marina Hyde]

But I think Kevin Costner at the time thought he was in his imperial

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

phase and nothing could disrupt him.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, I'm still very much looking forward to her rise and fall. Perhaps Christian Slater's in that where are

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

you, Christian Slater, I love you.

[Richard Osman]

But anyway, congratulations to Sam Fender and Olivia Dean and yeah, keep a lookout if they break Bryan Adams record next week. But I have a sneaking thought that Wonderwall might do it. I think if we win against Argentina, it will do it.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Oh, we all want Wonderwall to do it because it will imply something else.

[Richard Osman]

But yes, that's true. Apart from San Fender. Well, maybe San Fender would as well.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I think probably everyone's on board with this.

[Richard Osman]

Nice to play some music on the podcast as well. Yes, we should do more of that.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, Much more music.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

And you know, maybe even the videos.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And talking about interactivity. We don't have any interactivity in this next section, which is about the drinks of the summer. Perhaps we should have done. It's a bit early.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It is a bit early. Okay. The drink of the summer, as I

[Marina Hyde]

say, what is it?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

And why do we have a notion that we have one?

[Marina Hyde]

Obviously always fashions in cocktails.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I find cocktail wars. The only acceptable form of identity politics. And winter had a sort of drink this year was the dirty martini.

[Marina Hyde]

And like lots of people talk about it, mention it.

[Richard Osman]

I can't do a dirty martini.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, I love them.

[Richard Osman]

I don't like olives in my non alcoholic meals. I don't like them in my alcoholic meals, which is what I call drinks.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Alcoholic meals. I love them in my alcoholic meals.

[Marina Hyde]

So some of the drinks of the summer and so on are about marketing. In fact, marketing is a huge part of all of these things. Aperol spritz, let's just get it out there because this is the case in point. Apple oil Spritz used to be like a cheap sort of kind of rock space bar drink. Backstreet thing. Came from Venice originally and it became this sort of cocktail. They changed everything. They changed. They buy the umbrellas, they changed the glasses to this big balloon thing. Campari acquired it, I think in 2023, but by then it had already become huge.

[Richard Osman]

It's like it's the pulled pork of alcohol.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It's.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, it's. What's amazing about Aperol is that it alcohol compared to lots of other similar things, even Campari. So you need.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

This is so great. You love this. This is the license to print money

[Marina Hyde]

because you need a comparatively high volume of it in the drink. So you might put 25 mils of

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

something else in a drink.

[Marina Hyde]

But an Aperol spritz has got 45

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

mils of this thing. So it's just.

[Richard Osman]

So you use more and more.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Oh, it's an absolute banker. Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

But it did slightly change people's taste because it's a slightly bitter taste.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

So this summer, okay, what we're talking

[Marina Hyde]

about, Hugo Spritz is big, that Saint Germain liqueur. Now people front the brands, you see.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

So Sophie Turner, the face of that market research, has forced me out to be going out like twice a night for about the last 50 nights.

[Marina Hyde]

And you see masses and masses of Hugo Spritzes.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Hugo Spritzes are everywhere.

[Richard Osman]

And that was quite an obscure liqueur.

[Marina Hyde]

They've been building that for a long time. Yeah, they've been building it. Remember, the visuals of drinks are very, very important. The platforms have completely changed our material world. What people loved about Aperol was that it was orange. It looks great. Photographs, really.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It's got to photograph well.

[Marina Hyde]

Hugo Spritz. Spritz also look good. But remember. And also it's part of sort of trend culture because people buy and post drink pictures of themselves with drinks because they're able to post it. It becomes a kind of in group signifier. It's an identity signaling. It's not about necessarily fancy cocktails, but it's about showing who you are and sort of, it's. It's a form of fashion.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Aperol Spritz is almost perfect because it's not fancy. It feels artisanal.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And it feels kind of. Because, you know, it does come from Venice and it, you know, it's a sort of real drink, as you say. It's in that beautiful schooner. So it photographs well and it's. It sort of tastes okay.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

But the taste is very much the last. Yes, part of that. But it's bigger than Campari Spritz because it's a bit too red and it's.

[Marina Hyde]

People find Campari quite bitter. It's quite medicinal.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

But I think the actual drink of the summer, first of all, I'm going to do alcoholic and non alcoholic alcoholic. The vodka cran. The vodka cranberry.

[Marina Hyde]

This was invented by Ocean Spray.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Lots of, you know, Ocean Spray, of course.

[Richard Osman]

Really?

[Marina Hyde]

It was invented by Ocean Spray. Well, you've got Ocean Spray.

[Richard Osman]

It's just by putting some juice in some vodka.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. You're a juice company. You need to put yourself into a cocktail.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

You need to become a mixer.

[Marina Hyde]

And they invented it in the 1940s. They called it the Red Devil.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

A little bit of an unfortunate name at that time because of all the red scare and things like that.

[Marina Hyde]

But these Hugo Switzers. Yes, you're seeing them everywhere.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

But Volker Crown, first of all, people think it's Taylor Swift favorite Olivia Rodrigo's new album.

[Marina Hyde]

There's a track on it called Expectations,

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

which contains the lyric, rocking a mini dress with a vodka crown and an open heart. Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

Conan Gray did a whole song called

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Vodka Cranby, which he did@the VMAs.

[Marina Hyde]

Again, it is a visual drink, but it's also in a time where, like, actually people are starting to ask, you know, when you just get stuck behind.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

My most unacceptable thing is when people offer order coffee in a pub, it's like, I'm so sorry this is gonna take so long. Yeah. There are other places for this, but

[Marina Hyde]

you don't wanna get stuck behind in the queue by someone who wants on these complicated drinks. This is a basic, like, serve it to me. By the time they've, you know, made your friend's drink, you can have another one.

[Richard Osman]

Pre. Can it.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, that's an easy one.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, my God.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Well, canned is beyond. Canned is like this completely explosive market.

[Richard Osman]

Cans of wine, huge now.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. And it's got Y2K vibes as well.

[Richard Osman]

The vodka crown, it's got what vibes?

[Marina Hyde]

Y2 year 2K, you know.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, Y2K.

[Marina Hyde]

Y2K. Y2K.

[Richard Osman]

It's got. Y's vodka crown got Y2K in.

[Marina Hyde]

Because it's. It's a sort of thing that people. Before, you know, people went mainstream with cocktails and things like complicated cocktails.

[Richard Osman]

We didn't used to have cocktails, did we?

[Marina Hyde]

No, but that's. It's a drink in a mixer. It's very simple. It's simple, but for Jenna.

[Richard Osman]

I've never seen you so energized on an item.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, don't worry, I'm going to. I know what nourishes me. Also destroys me.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. It's so interesting to see.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, just a peek behind the mask.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

I.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

I've got to ruin it and I'm too old.

[Richard Osman]

You're.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

Let me get.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Let me.

[Marina Hyde]

Let me get down to their generation's drink. The Jenna the Mega Mega drink is from Starbucks. It's the Strawberry Assay Lemonade Refresher.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

This thing is beyond the status drink. It was started first by teens. They customize it a lot. It's very interesting. You'll be interested in this. Okay. It's part of, like, little treat culture. It's like kind of, you know, it can be expensive, but it started by sort of cool teens.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

And then like the Boo Boos or Stanley Cups. It becomes what they imagine to be basic, so it lowers down the age range.

[Marina Hyde]

But Starbucks used to not appeal to teens at all. But the. They only started in 2012. They started doing colored drinks, but crucially, they did cold drinks. And then 37% of the drinks they

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

used to sell were cold. In less than a decade, it was 75%. Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

It is massive, this drink.

[Richard Osman]

Are you saying 75% of drinks that

[Marina Hyde]

are Starbucks now are cold?

[Richard Osman]

Are cold.

[Marina Hyde]

And this strawberry assay lemonade refresher is absolutely huge amongst. You can't move for it on, you know, people posting pictures of it.

[Richard Osman]

I call it a South.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. Yes, yes. It's a. Yeah, it's a Southern.

[Christy from Lululemon]

No.

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

Sala.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, yeah, that's bad. I call it a mo.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

A mo. Yeah, it's a mo.

[Marina Hyde]

Salah again, has to photograph well. But these teens and tweens are all on drink talk. They customize it on drink talk. They customize it in millions of ways. They think it's asmr. The noise of the eyes. They have their first sips and Starbucks have really lent into it.

[Richard Osman]

Gotta bet they have. Yeah, I would.

[Marina Hyde]

And also of being a place to hang out, because they don't have places to hang out. You know, the other thing is something like Matcha, which is now an entire aesthetic.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

That kind of green ombre. Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

With it especially, every single Matcha shop has Match of the day written. Like, okay.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

It's worse than hairdressers now.

[Marina Hyde]

But I've never hated the hairdresser puns.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

But there's something about the Matcha ones that's really irksome.

[Marina Hyde]

There's something that's come off Secret Lives

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

of Mormon Wives, which is beyond.

[Marina Hyde]

It's called the dirty soda.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Okay. And it's a fizzy drink with cream and syrup. There's like 90 grams of sugar in one.

[Richard Osman]

Wow.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

That is a big thing.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

So dirty.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah. But it'd be my private investigator now, but okay. So that is.

[Marina Hyde]

So I think it's the vodka crown,

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

because actually that's the sort of advanced

[Marina Hyde]

one, but the sort of lower level. The things that people are discarding because

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

they think they've become basic are things like Hugo Spritz or whatever. And the strawberry acai lemonade refresher will be going down from the cool teens to the tweens like the Boo Boos did.

[Richard Osman]

But there's so much money in it, it's unbelievable. Some of the biggest companies in the world are drinks companies in their various iterations. I mean, so it's one of those things where, for Every sort of fun little photo of, you know, the sunlight through an apparel spritz. There's like a multi, multi, multi, multi billion industry.

[Marina Hyde]

These people are paying to be your. We all pay to be their influencers. It's clever, it's unbelievable. And the same with the tweens. And the same with their drink talk. And then shaking the ice. They're doing.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Or everyone works for free for these, these companies if they get it right.

[Richard Osman]

I went down to see Ollie Smith this week. Obviously wine expert, who I love down in Sussex, which now is like the, like wine country. Champagne was 30 years ago. I said, we got to invent next year's summer drink. Ollie.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Oh, my God.

[Marina Hyde]

I really want you to.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. With a bit of American wine. Well, are you something like British, Right?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Because we have amazing, you know, the sparkling.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

It's got to have that saying and then like. Well, maybe find like some sort of neglected English look here from somewhere.

[Christy from Lululemon]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

But it's. I imagine it's hard than it sounds.

[Marina Hyde]

It takes longer than it sounds.

[Richard Osman]

Given that all the people who currently have the drinks of the summer are all multi billion dollar corporations and it's just me and Ollie sitting there with a drink. I'll tell you what we should do.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

If anyone can game the system and work out and drive himself mad, is the person who made those notes. About the number ones.

[Richard Osman]

About the number ones.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy can do it. I believe in him.

[Richard Osman]

Any recommendations this week, apart from alcohol based ones?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Apart from continuing to burn the candle at both ends?

[Marina Hyde]

Yes.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Somebody has now had number one albums in five decades and it's Madonna.

[Marina Hyde]

I really like Confessions 2. I think it's great. It's a great pop album. It's really good. Okay. And we talked a bit about how

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

the film is probably never gonna happen. But in a way this album is sort of better than that.

[Marina Hyde]

It's a way of. It's looking back on her career in lots of ways.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

There's lots of callbacks to stuff. It's really good.

[Marina Hyde]

But she does just have this cast

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

iron belief in her own exceptionalism and strength and where's the lie? I think I really like it. Really good.

[Richard Osman]

So I'm going to recommend on Apple, Widow's Bay, the Matthew Rees show, which is sort of like a comedy horror. But it's really good. And anyone who's ever wanted to write or anything. What's the first 10 minutes of that? And see the world setting and see the character setting. It's so beautifully done. Matthew Rees is amazing, funnily. Enough, we got a question in the Q and A about why there are so many British actors in Hollywood and I had a really, really, really interesting chat with a casting director about it. So we'll deal with that on the Q and A. But Matthew Rhys is amazing in it. It's really, really smart. It's written by Katie Dippold, who wrote Parks, all sorts of things. So I really, really love that. And it's also just like from Nowhere. Just got a whole load of Emmy nominations as well. I can absolutely see why. So Widow's Bay on Apple's really, really. It's kind of funny, quirky, it's a bit scary bits of it, but it is, you know, the humor kind of overrides everything.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Now, can you please tell me what your World cup of is this week?

[Richard Osman]

Yes, it is. And I've been looking forward to this one very much. The World cup, cup of UK Quizzes.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Oh my God.

[Richard Osman]

So we've got everything.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

A disturbance in the force.

[Richard Osman]

We got the chase. We got Pointless. We want who wants we got who wants to be a Millionaire. We've got the lot Mastermind Uni Challenge, talking to John Robbins. Amazing. Adam about it. It's I really, really, really.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly a producer or another presenter)]

Oh my God.

[Richard Osman]

So that's available to members from tomorrow. If you want to be a member, go to the Restless Entertainment.com we'd love to have you. But equally we, we love everyone who isn't a member member as well. We love you all equally and we

[Marina Hyde]

will be answering your questions and the Q and A on Thursday. So see you then.

[Richard Osman]

Bye.

[Kati K]

Hello and welcome to Doing It Anyway, a brand new series from Goal Hanger. I'm Kati K. I've spent years studying the science and art of confidence, writing books about how we can cook, close the confidence gap between men and women and talking to experts and younger women about how to pass it on. Confidence means taking risks, acknowledging your fears and, well, doing it anyway. In this series, I'll be talking to psychologists, entrepreneurs and business leaders to unpack how you can rethink challenges and grow your own confidence. We'll talk about how to spot the difference between confidence and competition, competence, how to deal with office politics and stolen credit and yes, handling rejection and ultimately, how you can become a better leader, teammate, and yes, a better person. Doing It Anyway with Katie K. Every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts,

[Pandora Jewelry Advertiser]

capture your favorite summer feeling with Pandora jewelry. Discover a collection inspired by the sunshine, sunshine, freedom and moments that make the season unforgettable. From sun kissed metals to personalized pieces ready to be engraved with your summer mantra. Each design moves with you from beach days to golden nights and every memory in between. Shop Pandora Jewelry's new summer collection in store or [e-mail] and let your summer unfold.