Sex Playlists - A Deep Dive

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Rest Is Entertainment

Episode: Sex Playlists – A Deep Dive

Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde
Date: August 10, 2026

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Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Marina Hyde and Richard Osman take an unexpectedly deep and often humorous look into the phenomenon of sex playlists—examining what makes a track “bedroom-worthy,” the dominance of certain artists and genres, and the science and psychology behind why and how we choose music for intimate moments. The discussion also ranges through celebrity playlist confessions, surprising listener stories, and segues into wider cultural topics including the scrutiny of women’s bodies in pop culture (with Ariana Grande as a focus) and groundbreaking polling on who should be the next James Bond.

The episode serves up a blend of entertaining banter, serious cultural critique, musical nerdery, and surprising revelations—delivered in the pair’s signature engaging style.

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Episode Breakdown

Sex Playlists: “A Deep Dive”

[03:34 – 24:05]

The Origins and Evolution

• Historical Roots:
  Marina traces the concept of curated sexy music back to ancient times, referencing Greek orators and Roman parties with live musicians (even some ‘multi-tasking’ flautists!)
  Notable Quote:
  • Marina: “The first major sex playlist artists… I’m gonna leave that one for our listeners to decide at the end.” [05:07]
• Modern Transition:
  Barry White, Marvin Gaye, and Al Green are credited as early modern playlist titans. Playlists have moved from “sex cassettes” to digital, with the culture and aesthetics evolving.

Data, Science, and Spotify’s Reluctance

• Spotify Trends:
  • In 2015, Spotify revealed over 2.5 million sex/romance-themed playlists, initially driven by indie-electronic minimalism (The xx, Chet Faker).
  • By mid-2020s, dark R&B dominated, with a 2025 study showing specific artist dominance (“massive artist hierarchy”) based on analysis of over 1,700 playlists.
    Artists and Tracks Cited:
    • Doja Cat (“Streets”)
    • Arctic Monkeys (“I Want To Be Yours”)
    • Bryson Tiller, Montell Fish, Drake, Chris Brown, Massive Attack, Portishead
• Clear Winner:
  • The Weeknd emerges as the dominant artist—by far the most playlisted for sex, with multiple songs (“Earned It,” “What You Need,” “High For This”).
    • Richard: “He’s the default artist, right?” [09:40]
    • Marina: “He is miles and miles ahead of absolutely everybody else.” [09:33]

Anatomy of a Sex Playlist – The Science Bit

• Musical Characteristics:
  • No one magical BPM (beats per minute); commercial analyses suggest 90-130 BPM, but “it should feel slower than its raw bpm” [10:13].
    • Steady pulse, high rhythmic consistency
    • “Half-time groove” – feels hypnotic, structurally important
    • Heavy bass, whispery/ASMR-style close-mic vocals
    • Lyrics: “quite basic and Route 1… titles are… Sweat, Swim, Sex With Me, Fetish, Dirty…” [13:35]
• Playlist Construction:
  • No shuffle; playlists are carefully curated for a “show arc.”
    • Marina: “By the back nine, you just want The Weeknd.” [14:06]
  • Repetition is desired; surprises are out (no “Bohemian Rhapsody”!)
• Biological and Psychological Angles:
  • Cites a medical paper: Rhythm and synchronization in music may have evolutionary, courtship roots (neuropeptide vasopressin, basal ganglia implicated) [15:17].
  • The “Pavlovian” effect: repeated use of the same playlist can prime arousal faster, a kind of audio bell-ringing.

Celebrity Sex Playlists

• Famous Confessions:
  • Ivanka Trump’s 21-minute playlist (John Legend, Adele, James Blunt, Bruno Mars) led the internet to speculate it was her sex playlist [16:51].
  • Charlie Puth: “jazz or soul—Roy Ayers, Miles Davis” [17:19].
  • Kevin Jonas: heavy on Michael Bublé, as his wife prefers it—not a bad idea, but “people don’t shuffle these things. If you’re on shuffle, you’re an amateur.” [18:20]
  • Michael Bublé joked his own playlist is “just full Jonas Brothers all the way” [18:55].

Niche Playlists, Economics & Humour

• Musical Diversity and Monetization:

  • Richard: “There’s heavy metal sex playlists… Glory Hole by Steel Panther… and Sulfur Injection by Apostasy.” [19:27]
  • Classical sex playlists exist too; most popular starts with Tchaikovsky’s Piano Concerto in D Major.
  • The economics: “You’re literally making money while people are asleep.” [19:28]

• Mixtape Nostalgia & Irony:

  • Romance of mixtape culture gets revisited—Marina: “I really hope so. I need to hear reports back…” [21:14]
  • Richard shares his “worst possible sex playlist” full of deliberately disastrous tracks (e.g., “I’ll Call You a Cab” by the Brian Burghardt Band) [21:39]
    • “Please, somebody… would you please make love to that playlist? Thank you.” [22:31]

Sex and… Podcasts?

• Strangest Listener Anecdote:
  • Producer Joey reveals a listener had sex during Rory and Alastair’s Gerry Adams interview episode.
    • Marina: “I don’t think of Gerry Adams as an instra-aphrodisiac…” [24:49]
    • Richard: “That must have been a Good Friday.” [24:33]

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Cultural Critique: Ariana Grande and Body Image

[27:38 – 36:34]

• Background:
  • Ariana Grande’s dramatic weight change and break from public life, likely due to relentless scrutiny about her body, becomes a focal point for discussing the unhealthy cycle of public commentary on women’s bodies.
• Viral Discussion:
  • Marina: “It really reminds me of the noughties and the way that incredibly thin women then…were spoken about without any form of humanity, just a sort of freak show.” [28:05]
• Social Media’s Role:
  • Despite attempted guardrails on TikTok/other platforms, the Ariana discourse “has beaten the algorithm.” [30:05]
• Ethics of Commenting:
  • The moral dilemma—should public figures’ health be discussed when it impacts millions of followers? Hosts share personal histories with eating disorders, acknowledging the complexity and necessity of careful conversation:
    • Marina: “No snowflake considers itself part of the avalanche… it’s very, very hard for people to get help…” [31:51]
    • Richard: “It’s not the fault of a thin woman that other people become anorexic, but having that example out there at all gives you an avenue…” [34:13]
• Conclusion:
  • The hosts agree: critique the broader issues, not the individual; acknowledge the impact but allow privacy for those affected.

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Who Should Be the Next James Bond? – Fresh Polling Revealed

[36:34 – 52:19]

What Do the People Want?

• Focal Data Polling:
  • Top 3 most-wanted actors by the public:
    1. Tom Hardy
    2. Henry Cavill
    3. James Norton [37:02]
  • Tom Hardy leads, but as Richard notes, historically “not a single [Bond actor] would have been chosen by the public… apart from maybe Pierce Brosnan.” [37:58]

Audience “Tribes” and What They Value ([38:55])

• Traditionalists: Want classic Bond vices and style; older, right-leaning.
• Patriots: Focused on Bond’s Britishness.
• Classicists: Like the familiar formula but allow for some updates and no “culture wars.”
• Showmen: Want spectacle, stunts, action—a younger, U.S.-skewed group.
• Globalists: Cosmopolitan, modern Bond, with younger international appeal.

Producer Strategies and Data-Driven Casting

• Studios/Amazon are acutely aware of audience quadrants and data-based demands, but creative choices remain crucial.
• Marina: “It’s a little bit like… the monarchy, where you have to make sure that it can be handed on to the next generation… we have to get Bond right or we’re getting something about ourselves wrong.” [44:07]

Who Are the Runners and Riders?

• Most popular (Hardy/Cavill) may be “too old.”
• Jacob Elordi, Callum Turner, Aaron Taylor-Johnson mentioned as lesser-scoring younger names.
• Richard lets slip he’s heard “Jack Lowden” is being strongly considered. “He’d be sensational.” [47:12]
• Ideal Bond Age Poll: Public wants Bond at 37, with his female lead at 33.
• The legacy of humor: “Humor should be part of it… I have a lot of respect for the way that Roger Moore could, say, ‘hiss off’ to a snake.” [50:50]

What Must a Bond Movie Have?

• Top elements: gadgets, exotic locations, dry humor, seduction, drinking.
• Americans uniquely want more gambling (Richard: “America’s literally lost its mind for gambling.” [51:58])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Marina: “I am removing every piece of joy from this piece by piece, okay?” (about her scientific analysis of sex playlists) [10:22]
• Richard: “Do you know what? I might never have sex again.” [10:28]
• On startup shuffle disasters:
  Richard: “Otherwise you get an advert for Screw Fix in the middle of it.” [14:23]
• On failed playlist experiments:
  “Please, somebody… would you please make love to that playlist? Thank you.” [22:31]
• On Bond:
  “We have to get Bond right or we’re getting something about ourselves wrong.” [44:25]
• On audience polling:
  “But the public. Usually you have to rely on the film producers to choose someone the public doesn’t know they want.” [38:23]

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Recommendations

[53:20 – End]

• Marina: Recommends Clausewitz’s classic On War as a dense, rewarding military philosophy tome, and recommends Richard’s latest book (as reviewed by her travelling companions!).
• Richard: The Land and Its People by David Sedaris, especially the audiobook for his unique delivery.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a quintessential display of The Rest Is Entertainment’s appeal: candid, sharp, and often very funny dissections of pop culture that swerve from highbrow musical theory to trivia, cringeworthy celebrity anecdotes, and sensitive social commentary. The deep dive on sex playlists succeeds not just as a gossipy segment but a genuinely rigorous (and gleefully demystifying) exploration of cultural habits, technology, and human nature. The topics of body image and 007 casting offer cultural weight and listener relevance, all wrapped in Richard and Marina’s witty, distinctly British repartee.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [03:34] – Introduction to “Sex Playlists – A Deep Dive”
• [08:28] – Hierarchy of artists on sex playlists; The Weeknd’s dominance
• [09:54] – Building the “scientific” sex playlist
• [13:35] – Discussion of lyrics/titles and structure of playlists
• [14:06] – On playlist “arcs” and the importance of no-shuffle
• [15:17] – Biological studies: music, neurochemistry, rhythm, and courtship
• [16:51] – Celebrity sex playlist confessions (Ivanka Trump, Jonas Brothers, Michael Bublé)
• [21:39] – The “worst sex playlist” ever made
• [24:27] – Extraordinary listener stories (sex and podcasting crossover)
• [27:38] – Deep-dive: Ariana Grande and the ethics/complexity of body image discourse
• [36:34] – Polling and discussion: Who should be the next James Bond?
• [38:55] – Breakdown of audience “tribes” and implications for Bond
• [44:07] – Production, national identity, and the “weight” of getting Bond right
• [47:12] – Richard’s insider Bond casting tip (Jack Lowden)
• [50:50] – The essential ingredients of a Bond movie; humor, gadgets, and gambling
• [53:20] – Recommendations

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For more: Listen to the full episode or subscribe for bonus Bond series and Q&A episodes.

Transcript

[Marina Hyde]

The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, one talent can make a career. 3 usually gets you an official title.

[Richard Osman]

Yep. And that official title is a triple threat. You call triple threat? Anyone who can act, sing and dance.

[Marina Hyde]

Now, these days, three can seem almost modest. The same person might write, direct, produce and have another career on the side.

[Richard Osman]

JLO would be a triple threat. Huge music career. Started as a dancer, Huge acting career as well. It's an amazing talent to be able to have.

[Marina Hyde]

Now drinks mogul as well, is she? You have to be the mogul now. I think the mogul is always the third thing. Now that.

[Richard Osman]

So she's a quadruple threat.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I sing, I act, and I have a lifestyle portal.

[Richard Osman]

But that phrase, all singing, all dances, it escaped entertainment. And now it's used for anyone and anything that does several jobs very well

[Marina Hyde]

all at once, which is a pretty fair description of octopus. It's the UK's largest energy supplier, one of the country's biggest installers of heat pumps, solar panels and batteries. And it runs a major electric car leasing business for good measure.

[Richard Osman]

I mean, that's a quadruple threat, isn't it?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, that's a quadruple threat.

[Richard Osman]

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[Marina Hyde]

My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast. You can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for, from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook.

[Marina Hyde]

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment with me, Marina

[Richard Osman]

Hyde, and me, Richard Osman. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina.

[Marina Hyde]

Hello, Richard. How are you?

[Richard Osman]

I'm all right. You sound like, A, you're not in the same room as me, and B, you're somewhere sunny. It's just something in the voice.

[Marina Hyde]

There's something. I'm devastated to be a part that I am. Yes, I am in Corfu.

[Richard Osman]

But you'll be back very soon.

[Marina Hyde]

I will be back by the time we do our next episode. Yes, yes.

[Richard Osman]

Great news. Nice over there.

[Marina Hyde]

Very, very nice, Richard. Very, very nice. Thank you. Yeah, it's been super.

[Richard Osman]

How's the entertainment scene? How's the Corfu in film industry?

[Marina Hyde]

Well, I'm staying somewhere that you can only watch DVDs, so I've been watching a lot of films.

[Richard Osman]

Where are you staying? 1987.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I'm staying in 1987. It's like very hard to check your emails and yeah, it's been real.

[Richard Osman]

Can I issue a quick plea, which is my book tour I'm going on in has sold out. Thanks, everyone. Apart from Birmingham Symphony hall, which is the one place I said don't book me in the Birmingham Symphony hall. Cause it's huge. So if you want to come to the Birmingham Symphony hall on the 8th of September, you'll be very welcome. I'll be talking to Harriet Tice from the Traitors and we'll be book signing and all sorts of things. So that's the eighth in Birmingham and that's just. That's. That's literally a subtweet to my publishers. I told him, I did tell him. I said, I'm not Michael Ball and I'm not. What are we talking about this week, other than the fact I'm not Michael Ball?

[Marina Hyde]

Well, Richard, you have kindly agreed to discuss sex playlists with me because I want to talk about what people put on their sex playlists and why. A deep dive, if you will.

[Richard Osman]

Yes, a deep dive. The economics of the thing as well. We're also talking about some amazing new polling about James Bond, what the public think about James Bond, who the public would like to be James Bond. We're going to take a look at

[Marina Hyde]

that and we're going to talk about Ariana Grande, who said that she's sort of stepping back from public life for a bit and has been the subject of intense scrutiny over her weight and how she looks and her health. And we're going to talk about the difficulty of all of that and whether people should talk about it at all.

[Richard Osman]

I'm just reminded as well that someone told me for definite who the new Bond is the other day. But I mean, that's happened before. But I will. I'll let you know what they said.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, we'll get into that. Right. Sex playlist. Okay. For some reason I needed something. I needed to listen to Sex On Fire by Kings of Leon the other day and I was looking for it and I noticed when I was looking down, wow, this thing is on a lot of sex playlists. And then I Became slightly obsessed with all of this. And, like. And so I want to talk about, like, which artists really, really perform on these? What makes. Yeah, really perform. What makes a song, how they work. We could do a little bit of the history thereof, by the way, because I would like to talk. We're gonna go right back to ancient times. Okay.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, wow. Cause I was gonna go back to Barry White.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, well, that's the later. That's the later. Okay. Aeschines, a Greek orator.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

He made us.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, he made a.

[Richard Osman]

How are you making sex playlists? Unbelievable. It was immediately a classicist take on sex playlists.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna strip every piece of magic out of this for you later, by the way.

[Richard Osman]

You wouldn't even allow me. Sex tapes, which I think is what they used to be. Sex cassettes. Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

They used to be sex cassettes, but if you say sex tapes, people think it's a different thing now. Okay, so you can't say sex tapes. It's a sex playlist. Right? Now, Escanese made a speech against an enemy in which he accused the enemy of having given into the most shameful vices. He invites women and flute players. Now, Plutarch said the Roman tyrant Scylla, he picks up this kind of partying style on military campaigns. He has big erotic parties. Again, musicians. A lot of flautists are flautists. The first major sex playlist artists. I'm gonna leave that one for our listeners to decide at the end.

[Richard Osman]

Was it not just a euphemism?

[Marina Hyde]

No, I don't think it was. It wasn't, actually. I think that some of them were multitaskers. Yeah, certainly. And perhaps particularly skilled.

[Richard Osman]

But oboe players. That's a euphemism.

[Marina Hyde]

I don't think they had any oboes. Listen, we can't get too stuck in history, so we're moving through Al Green, Marvin Gaye.

[Richard Osman]

They were famous obosexuals, weren't they? In the. In the classical world?

[Marina Hyde]

Very. Okay, let's just move on to the modern era. Okay, so we've got Al Green, Marvin Gay, Barry White. I'm sure you would like to talk about.

[Richard Osman]

No, no, no, no. You carry on. I'm honestly, I'm a student studying at the feet of the master Barry White.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. So he. He becomes a soundtrack to a lot of people's love. He. It's romantic soul. He's got that deep baritone that. He called it sort of sex and symphony, but it was quite anticipatory of disco. There are beats there. We're gonna get onto quite a lot of technical music stuff.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, my God. This really is a deep dive.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, no. Listen. I tried to talk to the people at Spotify about this. They did not want to discuss this.

[Richard Osman]

That's so weird that they wouldn't return that call.

[Marina Hyde]

They returned it, but they didn't wanna get into it.

[Richard Osman]

Did they at any point say, you have to stop ringing us?

[Marina Hyde]

They said they are performing a valuable public service in my view. I don't think they should be ashamed to talk about this. But if people won't answer my many, many questions, I will go and. I spoke to a lot of people in the music industry. I read a couple of medical papers.

[Richard Osman]

Wow.

[Marina Hyde]

And I looked at what Spotify's publicly available data. Right. Everything changes. Everything has now changed. But the last time we knew about this, particularly from their Data, back in 2015, it was the xx's intro that was massive on Sex Playlist. Chet Faker back then. Spotify said back then that there were 2.5 million playlists, which were basically sex playlists.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

And. But it was a different aesthetic. It was a kind of indie, electronic,

[Richard Osman]

minimalism, quite kind of slow loose sort of thing.

[Marina Hyde]

It's now much more dark R and B. And There was a 2025 analysis of over 1700 Spotify playlists which all said things like sex or bedroom or romance or shagging in the. In the title and. Oh, my God, there is a massive artist hierarchy on this. I will professionally not tell you who is the far and away the market leader till we get on.

[Richard Osman]

Well, even though I sort of know who the market leader is.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, you know who it is. Okay, but. So there's lots of artists that just feature again and again and again and they sometimes they have like one big track, but a lot of them just have lots and lots of different tracks in these things. So you've got things like two feet that. They're on it a lot.

[Richard Osman]

I call them 24 inches.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. Chase, Atlantic. So there's lots of songs, but Swim is massive. Doja Cat. Again, lots of songs, but Streets is massive. Arctic Monkeys, I Want To Be Yours, Bryson Tiller. Don't like Montel Fish, Hotel, Drake, Teenage Fever, all of these.

[Richard Osman]

Montel Fish, Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Montel Fish, Labyrinth, Mount Everest. Okay. But there's lots of, like, Chris Brown, under the Influence. Chris Brown. That is huge. Rhiannon. I don't like to mention them in the same paragraph, but there you go. So they're big and still. People like Massive Attack and Portishead kind of do well, but way out in front, like way, way, way into the thousands of appearances is the Weeknd.

[Richard Osman]

The Weeknd.

[Marina Hyde]

The Weeknd. Oh, my God. He is miles and miles ahead of absolutely everybody else.

[Richard Osman]

He's the default artist. Right?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

I thought that the thread that ran through this just went, Barry White, Prince, the Weeknd. Now I recognize it's East K. Barry White, Prince, the Weekend. But that's the biggest Skinnies is just telling you about.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah, they are the big four. Right. So one of the girls is by far the biggest, but also often high for this. Earned it. What you need anyway, you could go on, because he just cannot. The Weeknd gets so much of this. Okay, So I find this all interesting that I was trying to understand what made those songs particularly work. So I did speak to a couple of actual technical musical experts. This is the science bit.

[Richard Osman]

This is the science bit.

[Marina Hyde]

I am removing every piece of joy from this piece by piece, okay?

[Richard Osman]

I like the whole of Britain all at the same time going, do you know what? I might never have sex again.

[Marina Hyde]

Sorry. Okay. Is there a magical sex bpm? Okay, the answer to that is not. Not really.

[Richard Osman]

Sorry, sorry. By the way, is there a magical sex bpm? Can that be the title of the episode?

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Bpm, I should point out, is. Is beats per minute.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Now, some commercial analyses will say that between 90 and 130 bpm is a good spot for a sex. A sex playlist track.

[Richard Osman]

Like blood pressure.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah. But it actually. Actually what people think is it should feel slower than its raw bpm. Okay. So then the raw BPM measurement suggests it should feel slower. Now, that is achieved in various ways.

[Richard Osman]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. Steady pulse.

[Richard Osman]

Tell us some of those ways, Marina.

[Marina Hyde]

A steady pulse that does well. A high rhythmic consistency. I want you to listen to this now a half time.

[Richard Osman]

I'll tell you what, now people are

[Marina Hyde]

perking up a half time groove. This is when the backbeat shifts, right?

[Richard Osman]

So it feels not like half time, like you stop for. For like half an orange. Like half time, as in. Yeah, okay.

[Marina Hyde]

No, no, you're not stopping at all.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

Right?

[Marina Hyde]

You're not stopping at all. We'll get on to how they make the arcs of them as well later. You're not stopping at all. At halftime. You've got. So this is when the back shift. So it feels. It feels slower than it is, but actually the tempo is the same. So it's. Structurally, that makes it quite hypnotic.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And it has also something you say. This is feeling slower than it is. I promise you I absolutely promise you that it's actually faster than you think.

[Marina Hyde]

I. I accept that you're going to do this all the way through and I understand that I've forced this item on us and that's absolutely fine.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Now, repetition, you don't want to particularly have to pay attention to this music. Okay. So repetitive arrangements are good. Say me is good. You do not want musical surprises to take you out of your moment.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Bohemian Rhapsody, for example, would be. I mean, that's kind of. Because you're constantly being distracted.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. It's like six different songs at one. No, no, thank you.

[Richard Osman]

Also bit long.

[Marina Hyde]

Well, we'll get. We'll get to. I think a lot of these people just don't even get listened to. People are asleep by a lot of these artists. But, you know, you have to be honest about the weekend and give him his flowers. Okay. So the R and B is obviously the standout genre. So as I say, the rhythmic density. So it needs to feel like slower bpm. Bass is key. Bass needs to be heavy. The vocal, it's much better if it's like whispery and close to the mic. So. But weirdly, people don't choose non vocal things. They don't do anything. Hardly. On these lists, people, they want. They overwhelmingly choose vocals. They want vocals and they like it close, mic, breathy. There's a perceived. Yeah, asmr. There's a perceived intimacy. I mean, I'll be honest with you, the lyrics are quite basic. And Route 1, there's a lot of, you know, the titles are. I mean, really, there's a lot of Sweat, Swim, Sex With Me, Fetish, Dirty, When We Body or Mind. Okay. All of this. Right.

[Richard Osman]

Sex with Me is really Route 1.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Osman]

If you're having sex with somebody.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, it is quite. But I think that in this department, you know, there's not that much creativity. What I will say is people avoid shuffle. Okay. They like to create an entire show arc with these things. So at the beginning it might be, you know, something mood enhancing. But, you know, by. What do I want to call this? The back nine? I don't know. By the back nine. You just want the weekend.

[Richard Osman]

Okay, I understand.

[Marina Hyde]

I think if I can put it

[Richard Osman]

later, a shuffle is a terrible idea because you're being halfway through. Suddenly there's an audio book. Rebus was driving across the fourth bridge. Also, by the way, make sure that you have Spotify Premium because otherwise you get an advert for Screw Fix in the middle of it.

[Marina Hyde]

Wow. Yes. We love you guys. At Spotify, but I would have liked you to have helped with me with this. Okay, so I read an interesting medical paper on sexual arousal and rhythmic synchronization.

[Richard Osman]

You're weak, so I will point. Can I just remind viewers that Marina is on holiday?

[Marina Hyde]

I wanted someone to answer my questions, but when they didn't, I had to find it out for myself. So some people did. The music experts were very helpful, and the record labels were helpful. Okay. I read this interesting paper on it. They think that music had an ancestral role in courtship displays. Anyway, the thesis of this paper was that neuropeptide vasopressin. This is a social hormone, among other things, that is associated with attachment and responses to partners. Again, among other things, that has receptors in the bits of the. That is involved in music and dance performance. That bit is called the basal ganglia.

[Richard Osman]

Okay, sorry. The basal ganglia.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, the basal ganglia. That could be the show episode title. It's concentration rises when men are sexually aroused. And they found that rhythm synchronization seemed to have a significant effect on sexual arousal. They did conclude that more studies were needed, and I would, you know, read all of those if they were.

[Richard Osman]

I will say. I'll go out on a limb and say, I don't think more studies are needed. I think probably we can get through the rest of human history without.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. But there is also a Pavlovian element to it that people describe, which is why they use the same playlist again and again. Because actually it gets them in the mood sooner and sooner each time, because, you know, the first chords of something by the weekend are like, okay, right, I know where I am now.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Then you're a salivating dog.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And so to use the Pavlovian.

[Marina Hyde]

To use. Yeah, yeah. It's the ringing of the bell. So anyhow, so this is. But this is a massive, massive thing. There are huge numbers of these ones. People don't necessarily, because people like to make their own ones. I wanted to talk a little bit about celebrities and that anyone's who've talked about it since this is an entertainment podcast as well.

[Richard Osman]

Sorry.

[Marina Hyde]

As well as something about the basal ganglia.

[Richard Osman]

The rest is basal ganglia.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, they will have been pitched it now. Celebrities. Jared and Ivanka. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, no, come on.

[Marina Hyde]

No, I know.

[Richard Osman]

Trigger Warning.

[Marina Hyde]

Trigger warning.

[Richard Osman]

But literally, their sex playlist is called Trigger Warning.

[Marina Hyde]

Ivanka has a lot of public playlists. You know, things like Walk to Work Running, like holiday party 2015, and then this playlist emerged, which was just a 21 minute playlist, which was like John Legend, Adele, James Blunt, and Bruno Mars. And everyone was like, okay, let me have 21 minutes of pure speculation. This is their sex playlist. Okay.

[Richard Osman]

James Blunt is. That's a. That's a. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.

[Marina Hyde]

Future celebrity traitors star. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay. People who have spoken about it. Charlie Put says he prefers jazz or soul. And he's actually spoken explicitly and said, these are the exact people on my sex playlist. They're like Roy Ayers, Miles Davis. That's what he's done.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. Okay. That's more acceptable than. Who would have thought that he would have a better sex playlist than Ivana Trump?

[Marina Hyde]

Ivanka Trump. Ivana's in the golf course now, I'm afraid. Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

Now,

[Marina Hyde]

the other people who've spoken about it, Kevin Jonas, he's got a podcast, you know, the Jonas Brothers. He says his playlist is just basically a lot of Michael Buble because his wife likes it. Okay. Which is not a stupid idea.

[Richard Osman]

No, don't get it.

[Marina Hyde]

And on that podcast, Joe, do you

[Richard Osman]

think it's a lot of Buble's Christmas stuff?

[Marina Hyde]

It's not clear. He didn't specifically. I mean, hopefully at Christmas, yes. But he. I think you could make it seasonal.

[Richard Osman]

But again, if you're on shuffle and you're. And you're halfway through and suddenly it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas comes on on August 4th.

[Marina Hyde]

Richard, people don't shuffle these things. So if you're on shuffle, you're an amateur. Right. So Joe Jonas said, But on this podcast, Joe Jonas. This is Joe Jonas now. Said to Kevin Jonas, but hang on, your wife told me that I'm her favorite band. And he was like, yeah, you're not on it. For obvious reasons, his brother's band is not on it.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah,

[Marina Hyde]

well, I mean, I'm not. Yeah, I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can. Now, what I think is rather nice to conclude what I'm talking about is that Michael Buble reciprocated and he said, oh, yeah, I mean, mine is just full Jonas Brothers all the way. Because he liked that he had got a shout out in the old Jonas sex playlist.

[Richard Osman]

In the old Jonas. And it's called the old Jonas sex playlist.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I think that's the podcast name. So. So that concludes my tour through this. I mean, it's a genre. It's a genre. The weekend is by far and away the market leader by a million.

[Richard Osman]

And the economics of it Are huge. Right. I mean, there's a huge amount of money spent. We've talked before about playlists and automatic placement on playlists and how when you're on one playlist, suddenly you get put on five or six others. And as you say, there's a lot of stuff on these playlists that is going on after people have fallen asleep.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

So you're literally.

[Marina Hyde]

Stream's a stream.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, Title of my sex playlist. And. Yeah, so you're literally making money while people are asleep. There's lots of niche ones as well, because I, you know, we all get that, you know, the weekend and all that kind of stuff is the, is the cliche. But there's like heavy metal sex playlists. Yeah, listen, I get it. It's whatever you want. Which, by the way, includes Glory Hole by Steel Panther and, and Sulfur Injection by Apostasy.

[Marina Hyde]

I would never shame anyone for any of that, I don't think.

[Richard Osman]

Oh, I'm not shaming anyone for anything. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just reading out some funny song titles. There's classical. You talked about people wanting lyrics and they're very kind of close to the mic stuff. There are loads of classical sex. Play this as well. That's sort of nice that those people exist in the world, isn't it? The, the most popular one, which has got over a quarter of a million listeners, starts with. I mean, you won't be surprised. No one, no one listening will be surprised at this. Starts with Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto in D major.

[Marina Hyde]

Sure. Of course.

[Richard Osman]

Absolute textbook stuff. There's also one, by the way, called Lek Mick in Arsh by Mozart, which I have, I, I, I've not wanted to translate, but it's on there anyway, because in the old days, before sex playlists, because I. Can we just take it into a slightly cuter route for a moment? Mixtapes used to be such a huge thing. I don't even like mixtapes in the, in the kind of, you know, dancing. But that thing of making a mixtape for somebody on like a, on a C90 cassette, and of course that's not a thing that exists anymore. But I'm assuming that kids are making playlists for each other these days, making curated playlists and sending them to hopeful paramours.

[Marina Hyde]

I really hope so. I need to hear reports back of this, but I'm sure they will. Yes. Yes.

[Richard Osman]

Every mixtape I made as a teenager might as well have been called. I think you're more likely to go out with me if you really understood how much I like the House Martins. That was essentially that. I've also just to put a tin lid on the thing, I've made the worst possible sex playlist.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

If you want to hear it.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I want to hear it.

[Richard Osman]

And it doesn't include napalm deaths. One second long, you suffer. So this is my. The worst possible, or maybe most ironic sex plays you can ever have. Mr. Soft by Steve Harley. Are you In By Incubus. Oops. Little Mix Over Too Soon. Small Faces. Is that It By Hank Sanders. Sorry about that. Alkaline Trio. What was that? Lord? Sorry again. Velocity Girl, you're Better Than that by Plug. I Know by Fiona Apple. Let Me Try Again by Frank Sinatra. I've Got Work in the Morning by Pizza Trump. I Understand by Freddie and the Dreamers. And we end with the Brian Burghardt Band. I'll Call youl a Cab.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, that's. I want someone to make that and put it on Spotify, but not put your name in the title.

[Richard Osman]

No, please, somebody, Just one of our listeners. Would you please make love to that playlist? Thank you.

[Marina Hyde]

And report back to us how it went. Thank you.

[Richard Osman]

That's a parasocial relationship. Isn't in the world, though, where audio is such a big deal. Do you think people are making love to audiobooks?

[Marina Hyde]

It's really interesting because someone just sent me a thing saying that the Heated Rivalry guys, you know, I hate to talk about them. The Heated Rivalry guys have done something on an app that I've yet to download, but I think is quite specialist. And it's. I think they played two princes for. For neighboring kingdoms. Someone told me that the sound effects were like, off the chain. So I don't know whether people. I don't know. I haven't listened to it and I need to listen to Hudson Williams and Connor's story on this story of two princes who live next door to each other.

[Richard Osman]

Is that what it's called? Two princes who live next door to each other?

[Marina Hyde]

No, it's not. I can't remember what it's called. I think the app is called Quinn that I have to get, but I haven't actually downloaded it. As I say, I've got very bad wi fi.

[Richard Osman]

I would bet pretty much any money that I have that somebody out there or a couple out there will have made love while listening to the rest is politics, don't you think? With Alastair and Rory, we're talking about Andy Burnham's transport policy, which, by the way, is not detailed enough for Me.

[Marina Hyde]

It's quite possible. It's quite possible.

[Richard Osman]

Our DMs are open. Well, that was exhaustive, Marina. Thank you for your service.

[Marina Hyde]

You're welcome.

[Richard Osman]

It was much appreciated. Shall we go to some adverts?

[Marina Hyde]

We can't because Joey, our producer, has just given me a piece of paper with an absolutely incredible detail on it.

[Richard Osman]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

Someone once emailed Goal Hanger to say that they had sex during Rory and Alistair's interview with Gerry Adams.

[Richard Osman]

No way.

[Marina Hyde]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That is quite a specialist.

[Richard Osman]

That must have been a good Friday.

[Marina Hyde]

I can't do. All of mine are too unacceptable. I can't do them.

[Richard Osman]

Wow. I mean, that is. Do you think that they were. They put it on especially, or it was just on as the evening progressed?

[Marina Hyde]

I don't think of Gerry Adams as an insta aphrodisiac, so. It's so difficult. Neither is acceptable. You put it on or it gets you in the mood. I'm so sorry. I said we wouldn't rush to any judgment, but I just want to say I'm judging.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. I mean, honestly, the rest is history. On Cicero, I get. That's absolutely fine, but Rory and Alastair talking to Gerry Adams.

[Marina Hyde]

Wow. I think we have to go to a break now. I need to have a moment.

[Richard Osman]

We have a lot to think about over these adverts.

[Marina Hyde]

A lot. This episode is brought to you by Lloyd's Rewards. Now, a big mistake that people make is leaving the cinema as soon as the credits roll. Cause there might be a bonus scene right at the end.

[Richard Osman]

Absolutely. One of my scenes.

[Marina Hyde]

There might be one in the middle.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. You never know.

[Marina Hyde]

In Marvel Ones there used to be a mid credits scene and then there'll be an end credit scene.

[Richard Osman]

I remember the first one. I really remember. Well, two, I remember Ferris Bueller's Day off where he tells you to go home at the end. But also Smokey and the Bandit with Burt Reynolds where they would do bloopers. It just feels like a secret little glimpse into a.

[Marina Hyde]

And it doesn't quite have to be over.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, exactly. And it's just a lovely little added bonus. You've done everything. You've made your show right. You've given everyone everything. It's just a lovely little extra.

[Marina Hyde]

Which is also the idea behind Lloyds Rewards. Extra value appearing inside something you were already doing anyway. Your daily banking, from shopping to streaming. You can bank on Lloyds to help your money go further.

[Richard Osman]

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[Marina Hyde]

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[Richard Osman]

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[Marina Hyde]

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[Richard Osman]

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[Producer/Advert Voice]

Okay, tough guy.

[Richard Osman]

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[Producer/Advert Voice]

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[Marina Hyde]

Welcome back, everybody. Now we are going to talk about Ariana Grande, which is such a difficult conversation. She's been very, very thin for a long time and she's just announced that she's sort of withdrawing from public life for an unspecified amount of time because the attention this gets, although she doesn't explicitly refer to it, but that's what it is, is overwhelming. And as I say, it's a difficult conversation, but I think it is one

[Richard Osman]

you have to have to discuss. Exactly.

[Marina Hyde]

I think talking about women's bodies in general is so difficult, it's difficult to say whether there is a right answer or not. And we'll kind of get through it. But a background Ariana Grande, she came to fame as a child star on Nickelodeon and then she became a pop star. Obviously, the Manchester bombing happened at an Ariana Grande concert. I mean, just truly beyond horrific. And she returned to acting and she has Focker in Law coming up. But most particularly, she returned in Wicked. And it was during the promotional tour for both sort of halves of that that it was clear that she was very, very thin. But she, she came back as a pop star this summer and that was slightly unexpected. She did a 42 date tour, the eternal Sunshine Tour, supporting that last album. But the new album, Petal is out and the video for that title track in particular does seem almost deliberately shot to highlight her frailty and her thinness. And, you know, it's gone completely viral. Obviously, the way that some people talk about it is so repulsive. It really reminds me of the noughties and the way that incredibly thin women then, who obviously all had major eating disorders were spoken about without any form of humanity, just a sort of, like a sort of freak show. And anyway, it's interesting the platforms have tried to pull back on this stuff because we know that sort of pro anorexia content pro and any of this sort of stuff, they have tried to

[Richard Osman]

pull back TikTok and places have tried to put guardrails in place, aren't they? I mean, the trouble is with all of those platforms, if this is something that you are desperately seeking out, you will find a way around that. But they're trying, at least they're recognizing that it's an issue that, that teens especially are trying to look at content about anorexia eating disorders and things like that, and they're actively seeking it out.

[Marina Hyde]

But I felt that they couldn't even beat it in this case. It's like this is such a tidal wave that it has beaten the algorithm. You can't move on all the different platforms for seeing people talking about it. And anyway, so one of her representatives has said that she will be taking a step back from visibility after her tour because of the public facing. Work and appearances have led to endless ongoing public scrutiny. And this is what this is about. It's about nothing else. So even things that she was going to do, like she was. I mean, a really big show they were doing with Jonathan Bailey, who's her

[Richard Osman]

wicked co star, Sunday in the park with George. Right. She was gonna do. Which would have been incredible.

[Marina Hyde]

Unbelievable. She's not doing that. And I absolutely think that the discourse is completely relentless on it and a massive percentage of it is completely without humanity.

[Richard Osman]

But yeah, as you say, there's an interesting thing in the middle of this which is, you know, we are strongly anti the policing of women's bodies and appearances and things like that. And that's an important part of our culture. But equally, if we do think there's something dangerous in the middle of our culture which actually, you know, adds to the issues of being a teen of either gender, then, you know, do you speak up? And so I think a lot of people are certainly on the horns of a dilemma as to whether this is something they want to.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And certainly whether they want to use her as a poster girl for it, because that feels unfortunate as well. But it's impossible to look at some of the ways that she is portrayed without thinking about this issue, without thinking about, you know, without speaking about it. And certainly anyone with teenage children, you're like, well, I mean, this Feels like an opportunity to have a conversation, but you don't want to put it all on Ariana Grande.

[Marina Hyde]

It's very difficult, you know, and we live in a world where people have very impressionable children and teenagers who follow and idolize these people. And a lot of people have disclosed eating disorders in the past. You know, everyone, Taylor Swift, Victoria Beckham Kelly, all these different people. And I've said this quote so many times before in this podcast, but, you know, no snowflake considers itself part of the avalanche. And I. Everyone saying a comment doesn't really. You can't imagine how difficult it must be to be her at the middle of it all. In 2020, Ariana Grande said we should be gentler and less comfortable commenting on people's bodies. However, I have to say I am of the view that some comment is, as you sort of hint, morally required sometimes. And it's incredibly complex. You know, I had an eating disorder myself in my early 20s. It's, you know, they really thrive on secrecy. I do think that the sort of. Of body positivity is quite a simplistic creed. And it's not one of those things. Everyone could. There was a point, you know, a few years ago when people said, oh, it's very, very simple. We just, It's. We just celebrate everybody. And I'm afraid that I, you know, that's too simplistic, really. And health and example. Whether asked to be an example or not does matter. You don't get it. Anorexia from women being thin and models being thin, or all the things that in the past of people have said, but that it's born of lots and lots of complex things, but it's particularly a desire to control an overwhelming world. They do make it worse, these images like this and all of this. So I think you do have to talk about it, but it's very, very hard. Obviously, some of the ways that some people talk about it where it's just some sort of joke, and you're literally joking about someone who may or may not be very ill. That's completely unhelpful. I do think, obviously, everyone has to leave her alone now, but I don't think you should leave the issues raised alone. And it's very, very hard for people to get help, both here and in the US And I think you have to talk about these things, and I find it very difficult. It's hard. You know, that's the trouble of being a public figure. You are a public figure to some degree, and I think it's too Simplistic to say we can't discuss it at all, because.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

And if you are in a situation as a teen or even younger or older, where you are looking for some sort of control and your life has spiraled, and you can see the examples in culture of very, very thin women, that is an avenue. You think, oh, maybe that's a way. Maybe that feels like something I can control. And so, as you say, it's not the fault of a thin woman that other people become anorexic, but having that example out there at all gives you an avenue. It gives you a. Gives you a. You know, I mean, I've spoken a lot about my disordered eating, and that started when I was very young, nine or ten. And it comes from, well, what can you control when you're 9 or 10 or 12 or 13? Not an awful lot. Not is the truth. But one thing you can control usually is food. That's the one thing that you know, whether it's eating more of it or eating less of it. It's a very, very simple thing to control when you're a kid, when you can't control almost anything else. And so I do think it's important we talk about it, as you say, Ariana Grande. It's fascinating because of course she denies that she has an issue. But when you're talking about all those women who have, you know, later admitted that they had issues, they all denied it at the time. Because you do deny it at the time. That's not her, not nothing. She's not doing anything wrong by denying it. Of course you deny it, because you don't even want to. You don't want to think about it, you don't want to talk about it, you don't want to admit it, feel shame about it. So she doesn't want to admit it. And that's fine. Maybe in 10 years time she'll say, actually, at the time there was an issue. But if we can elevate the debate slightly and just sort of say, we understand in our culture there are people who are thinner than them. They might be in the manosphere. There are, you know, we talked about, you know, looks, maxing and all that kind of stuff. There are versions of bodies out there which teenagers of any gender can look at, which probably are not the healthiest versions of bodies that they could have. And given that food is something that kids can control in some way, it's worth having a conversation about it, and it's certainly worth kids being able to talk about it as well.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I don't think you can ignore it, but you can just choose how you do it. But I think she must be left alone now because that's what she's asked for.

[Richard Osman]

Well, listen, we all wish her well and hopefully there are conversations that can be had. Hopefully some good can come of all of that stuff and we can all start talking about. About those things a little bit more. Shall we move on to something? Should we move on to an exemplar of manhood who's been around for a very, very long time? And that is James Bond.

[Marina Hyde]

Very good. Yes, James Bond. Now, James Kanagasorian, who's the brilliant pollster who I did our Vibe Shift series with.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. By the way, available to members still, that Vibe Shift series. And it was absolutely sensational.

[Marina Hyde]

Now, James Company Focal Data has done research on what the public want from the next James Bond film, which I think is very, very interesting.

[Richard Osman]

And from the next James Bond himself as well.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, yes.

[Richard Osman]

The headlines of it are. Well, should we talk about who the British public want to be James Bond first? Because he's done a lot of research into that and I think it's interesting. The number one name. We'll do a top three. Okay. These are. These are the three people who British people would most like to be James Bond. We've seen all the names that are in, in the press. We've seen that the, you know, the, the names at the top of the betting. But if you just ask the. The public in the UK and the us, funnily enough, in third place, James Norton.

[Marina Hyde]

Yep.

[Richard Osman]

It's been mentioned a lot. I absolutely get that. In second place, Henry Cavill mentioned a lot. 21% of people would like Henry Cavill to be James Bond. The top choice across Britain and America to be the next James Bond, Tom Hardy. I mean, I get it. I absolutely get it. I don't think it'll be him. But you can see why people would want Tom Hardy to be James Bond.

[Marina Hyde]

People are wrong. People are wrong about a lot of things.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. But if you look back at every single James Bond that has ever been appointed, not a single one of them would have been chosen by the public. Apart from maybe one. Connery definitely wouldn't have been chosen by the public. Cause he was unknown. Roger Moore wouldn't have been chosen by the public. Timothy Dalton wouldn't have been chosen by the public. George Lazenby, Daniel Crowley, Craig definitely wouldn't have been chosen by the public. They were furious about it at the time. The one person, I think the public Might have said, this is our guy is Pierce Brosnan. Yeah, I think he was the right guy at the right time and everyone would have, but the public. Usually you have to rely on the film producers to choose someone the public doesn't know they want. Right?

[Marina Hyde]

Yes, but that was such a. We've talked about it a lot before, but that was Barbara Buckley's call. Completely the Daniel Craig court. And it's really ballsy because it's like everyone was like, what on earth are you talking about? The second they see Cassandra, they're like, oh, yeah, no, you're right. That is the right call.

[Richard Osman]

And also he's also, he's a great actor and that is important if you want to make great films.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay, right. James Kanagasoram's research. They've divided the fans of this franchise, which I like about this. They've divided basically the fans of this franchise into tribes. And the tribes are traditionalists and like they care about, you know, all preserving his traditional values, his classic behaviors, you know, no political correctness, et cetera. All his vices are there, his seduction style is intact. All of that. They're the biggest segment in the UK and they're a substantial one. We're just sort of looking at the UK and the US really, and they're a substantial one in the US and they're kind of heavily populated by socially conservative older right wing voters who's like, they really like the franchise when they feel kind of old school. Next tribe patriot. They really care about Britain's. His British identity, that, you know, the sense of duty, blah, blah, national affiliation. They're more prevalent in the UK obviously than they would be in the us and again, they disproportionately include older, more nationally rooted right of centre voters. And they wanted to keep bond very much the same. This is the next tribe. This is interesting. I'm a little bit of this, but a little bit of the next one after. Classicists. Classicists. They want to have the familiar formula. So they want the structure, they want the leading man looks. They don't have to be heavily updated. They. They're kind of like a really solid middle ground in both US and the UK market. They don't want any culture wars in this stuff.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah, but they want the classic stuff. But they want you to move it on a little bit to reflect the world as it is. They want Christopher Nolan's Odyssey rather than Homer's Odyssey.

[Marina Hyde]

Agreed. Then you've got showmen or show people perhaps. And now showmen, they care most about the sort of spectacle, the escapist glamour, big action sequences, lots of locations, gadgets, all the stuff, you know, the jokes. And they want the films to be very fun, visually impressive. They're more common in the US than the uk, funnily enough.

[Richard Osman]

But they don't care about the absolute traditional bits of Bond as we, you know, the tuxedo and the suaveness and the. And they just want a big Mission Impossible style spectacle.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. And they tend to skew younger. And by the way, young people are the people who go to the cinema most. A lot of these old people who have a number of views. Are you going to see it in the cinema? No, I probably won't. It's a little bit.

[Richard Osman]

It's just like, this is how I want you to make it.

[Marina Hyde]

This is exactly how I want you to make it. I'm never gonna see it. I'll watch. I'll fall asleep in half of it over Christmas in about seven years time. Okay, so no, the next one is globalists. Now, they care about all of the kind of. Just the kind of locations. They like it to be more modern, cosmopolitan. There's more of them in the US than the uk and they're younger, they're outward looking, they're whatever.

[Richard Osman]

They're absolutely the sort of people who would have sex while Rory and Alastair talked to Jerry Adams.

[Marina Hyde]

They're not those people. Okay, I don't think.

[Richard Osman]

Are they not? Who are those people? I would love to know. I would love to know who those people would choose as the next James Bond.

[Marina Hyde]

Listen, if that was you, don't be intimidated. Write in and just give us a tiny bit more detail because there's just not enough quite. I know about this yet. And as you know, I like to ask a lot of questions. Okay, so let's go back to these people in the UK. Older viewers, C2 voters. They're kind of clustered in traditionalists and patriots. While classicists are quite popular now, the showman and the globalist, you know, those last two categories that don't really care about, you know, just kind of want it to be big and exciting and fun and hot and whatever. They're much more female, younger looking, 18-34s etc.

[Richard Osman]

As you say, people who will actually go to the cinema.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, but you. But actually you want to get all of those people. You know, we've talked before about like four quadrant movies. Bond isn't a four quadrant movie really, but it's as many quadrants. You always want as many quadrants as you can and so each of those audiences need different marketing techniques to bring them in and in. Your casting, your concept, your tone, all of that, you need to reach them all in a way, if possible. It's literally. It's almost like a manifesto. It's so weird, this franchise. It's almost like trying to get, you know, putting out an offer to the electorate for government.

[Richard Osman]

But it is. I do think it's worth noting that, you know, we're. This data is amazing, but it's worth noting if you are the Bond people, if you are Amazon, they have all of this data as well. They want to make a great film, but they do also want to market to all of these people. So if you look at who they will eventually choose, if you look at the movie they make, if you look at the script, all these things, they will have had all of this information all the way through. So it's all very well us saying, oh, God, it's so easy to make a Bond do X, Y or Z. They have got all of this stuff. They know all of these things. They want to make a movie that, as you said, appeals to everybody. They know exactly all these numbers. And often, certainly in a franchise, data can be incredibly important. It's never as important as the creativity of the director and the writer and the actor. That is always paramount, I think, in pretty much any franchise. But all of this will inform their decisions, which is why it's interesting that we have this data as well now.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, it's really. But it's a little bit like something like the monarchy, where you have to make sure that it can be handed on to the next generation. It's such a weird franchise. As I always say in the uk, this is really something that's in our bones. You know, we have to get Bond right or we're getting something about ourselves wrong.

[Richard Osman]

Stop getting Bond wrong.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, but if we're getting something quite sort of elemental about ourselves wrong. And so there's certain things that are like this kind of national bellwethers and it's like, oh, you know, is Ms. Underwear good at any one given time, you know, have Man United got a strong back for? Are our institutions failing? This is like one of those things. It's sort of totemic in a weird way.

[Richard Osman]

Well, it was fascinating recently, recently that, God, they do polling on everything that all the world security services voted on who the best security service in the world was. And MI6 came top by like a mile, by like an absolute mile in terms of the ones that was admired most by the rest of the world. And that is, of course, not chiefly because of Bond, but a part of that is because the brand is so incredible. And that's Bond and that's Britain. And there is something about Bond that is absolutely deep within our national psyche. But we have to recognize that, for example, in America. America, they couldn't care less about any of that stuff.

[Marina Hyde]

No, but we have to now talk about. It's very interesting. Okay. Across every one of those single. Those tribes that I have mentioned, Tom Hardy and Henry Cavill come out on top. There's something about those they believe that they identify, kind of have to have this core identity of Bond and that they embody it.

[Richard Osman]

That's. So with the traditionalists, with the classicists, with everyone, they all sort of agree.

[Marina Hyde]

They're miles out in front on this one. I mean, I think they're totally wrong.

[Richard Osman]

They're too old, by the way, there's one interesting wrinkle in that. So Tom Hardy is ahead of Henry Cavill. If you just look at Americans, it's just Americans. Then Henry Cavill is actually the first choice to play Bond.

[Marina Hyde]

America, you're wrong about this. And some other stuff as well. But Henry Cavill's 43. I think he's too old for it. But the next ones down, it's interesting, are like, James Norton, Richard Madden.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah.

[Marina Hyde]

Again, they're not going to go for Richard Madden after that. There's no younger ones doing anything more than 2%. So you've got Callum Turner, Aaron Taylor Johnson. You've got quite negative ones like Jacob Elordi. Now, he's.

[Richard Osman]

Well, I was going to say. So this is like the popularity thing, which is you take the amount of people who like them and you minus the amount of people who don't like them. That's why it's possible to get a minus score. So Tom Hardy, score of 28 is the amount of people who like him, minus the amount of people who don't like him equals 28. So there's a person on zero who I've been told is gonna be the next James Bond. By the way, I know.

[Marina Hyde]

I'm gonna let you get to him.

[Richard Osman]

Okay.

[Marina Hyde]

Jacob Elordi, who's one of the people, he's very negative. He's 29 years old. Yeah. Years old. Yes. And Callum Turner is 36. I think that's, you know. Anyway, you do want Bond to be a little bit older, but they could do something different. It's whether or not they take that big punt. But anyway, you tell us about your latest.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. So, as I say, you know, the scores are the amount of people who think you're great minus the amount of people who think you are not great. We absolutely have to take into account the public would have been wrong on every single Bond ever appointed, apart from maybe Pierce Brosnan. And so it's down to the producers.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

Yes.

[Richard Osman]

But the name I heard and we, you know, different people here, different things. The name I heard is Jack Loudon.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah.

[Richard Osman]

River can't Write in Slow Horses. And it was Kenny Noye in Gold. And is such a brilliant actor, can be funny, can definitely do action. I mean, I think he'd be sensational. It is definitively not a he's definitely got it thing. It's just someone he is definitely being strongly considered. I think he'd be amazing.

[Marina Hyde]

He's 36. That's a good age. You have to have the longevity. They've got to do at least two movies and he'. He's a good age for it. The other, you know, some of the others you mentioned are too old.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. I think. I think you have a mid-30s. And funnily enough, the polling by Focal Data says how old should Bond be? And it's all. I think the average age that Bond should be is 37. But the average age for a Bond girl is 33. They think that he should be 37 and his girlfriend should be about four years younger. That's what the public thing. But, yeah, I think Jack Loudon would be an incredible Bond, don't you?

[Marina Hyde]

He'd be great. Yeah, for sure.

[Richard Osman]

He's got real Daniel Craig energy.

[Marina Hyde]

Yes. But definitely can do the jokes. The jokes are essential. They're not taking it too seriously as well. Yeah, he. It's. Daniel Craig took it, you know, slightly seriously by the end, but he's always.

[Richard Osman]

But you can see he's got a slight. Yeah, there's always a slight twinkle in Daniel Craig's eye. If we accept that humor is an important part of Bond. I mean, which of these actors can really, really do comedy? Which of them have done comedy? It's quite hard going down that list to find proper, you know, actors with comic chops.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah. Callum Turner's in a rom com at the moment, but it hasn't done very well.

[Richard Osman]

Yes. Which I think is interesting. It opened last week to not much, which won't do him any favors in this race, I don't think.

[Marina Hyde]

No. But then I, you know, I mean, it's not. I don't think it's going to be Tom Hardy I don't think those stories out of Mobland were particularly helpful either, because you just need everyone to be very easy to with. I'm not saying he isn't. It seems like so many egos on that show. I've got my own theories as to what the real problem is, and I don't think it's Tom Hardy necessarily. But none of that's helpful because it's such a. It's such a sort of huge thing, and you really need everyone to be. Lowest friction possible.

[Richard Osman]

It's interesting, actually, that they also do. They've done the data on who the Britain's Britain and America's favorite ever Bond was and absolutely splits exactly as you think, which is old. Older viewers, it's Sean Connery. Younger viewers, it's Daniel Craig. And they're somewhere in the middle. They sort of merge into the two. But those two are absolutely streets ahead of everyone else.

[Marina Hyde]

But there are a lot of people who answered George Lazenby.

[Richard Osman]

Yes, we're.

[Marina Hyde]

As I said, people are very wrong about things.

[Richard Osman]

Well, the 35 to 44 cohort is the one that's absolutely split down the middle between three of them. So I think, as I say, Connery, when you're above 44, is everyone. If you're under 35, everyone is Daniel Craig. But 35 to 44, it's absolutely split between just. Connery just wins by one point from Daniel Craig and then by two points from Piers Brosnan. So it's that. That bit is very, very close. But everyone else, it's. You're either Connery or you're Craig. It's like everyone's. Everyone's favorite Doctor who is. Whoever was Doctor who when you were growing up, or David Tenant.

[Marina Hyde]

Okay. But. But the humor should be part of it. Like, I have a lot of respect for the way that Roger Moore could, say, hiss off to a snake.

[Richard Osman]

Yes.

[Marina Hyde]

I. You know, I would not mind seeing a little bit more of that next time around.

[Richard Osman]

Yeah. And Jack Allen could do that because Roger Moore's my favorite Bond because he was my first Bond, you know, and that's. That's just when I grew up seeing it. Funnily enough, they talk about what has to be in a Bond movie to all these respondents. And absolutely top of it, 70% of people said gadgets. So gadget is the single most important. So, because gadgets, exotic locations, dry humor, anything. I mean, if that's not the perfect recipe for a film, what is?

[Marina Hyde]

What is?

[Richard Osman]

And Brits and Americans tend to agree on. I just thought this was an interesting. Just a final little thing. So dry humor, seduction, drinking, womanizing, all these things people want to be in the Bond movies. The place where Brits and Americans differ the most is gambling. Gambling. So Brits don't really are not that fussed about gambling being at a Bond movie. Americans really, really, really want it. America has gone absolutely insane for gambling in the last five years.

[Marina Hyde]

They have.

[Richard Osman]

They've gone insane. I just saw that Polymarket and Kalshi, which are, you know, the sort of not supposedly not betting sites.

[Marina Hyde]

Prediction markets, Richard.

[Richard Osman]

Prediction markets. They're both worth over $20 billion now. America's literally lost its mind for gambling. It has lost its mind anyway and they want more of it in Bond. But thank you very much to James and to Focal Data.

[Marina Hyde]

Thank you for that.

[Richard Osman]

But the interesting thing is that the Bond franchise people have all of this information already. They've got all of this data, they know all of this stuff. And so when you think about the decisions they've got to make, my God, there's a lot on their shoulders and I imagine that new names will emerge and there's many twists in this story yet. And if you want more Bond, we are currently recording our series, which is the definitive History of James Bond, starting right from Ian Fleming all the way through. We're having such a lot of fun, fun doing it. It is for members, but the very first episode is out this week and that is free for everybody and it's about Ian Fleming. Oh, God, I loved recording that episode so much. So it's about Ian Fleming and the very, very beginnings of Bond, so you can listen to that for free and lots of details there about how to join our membership thing as well for ad free listening and all that stuff. But yes, the Definitive History of James Bond is on its way for members and this week only for non members to any recommendations? Marina?

[Marina Hyde]

What I wanted to be able to recommend this week was Richard Usmond's We Chase Shadows. But let me tell you what's happened. This book, which I bought with me, I bought two books with me, it was immediately taken from me by Kieran who said, like, honestly, yeah. By the first three pages, Kieran was like, oh, my God, his tone is amazing. He's just nailed. Absolutely loved it. The second he finished it, my daughter has taken it, not spoken to me for 24 hours. Not in a bad mood, just so I haven't yet. But I can tell you that it is going down an absolute storm with the people I'm with.

[Richard Osman]

Aw, thank you.

[Marina Hyde]

So I'm reading my other book. I'm reading my other book which is. Oh, you're gonna love this. I am reading On War by Carl von Clausewitz, which is a seminal early 19th century, by the way, treatise on military strategy and history. I couldn't be loving it more. It's like a self help book, but not rubbish. And I'm learning how to vanquish my enemies. 99.9% of listeners to this podcast, and even that's conservative, will don't buy this book because you will be. What on earth has she given me? I literally couldn't love it more.

[Richard Osman]

You might be the only person in the world taking those two books on holiday.

[Marina Hyde]

Yeah, I think so. I'm also planning to, to invade the territories to the east of Prussia in September and I don't want to mess it up. So I would like to recommend On War by Carl von Clausewitz. Any recommendations, Richard?

[Richard Osman]

Yes, I'm listening to actually though you can read it, the collection of David Sedaris pieces called the Land and Its People. And I would listen. I'd recommend buying it. Cause he's so brilliant. But particularly the audiobook. Cause you get to hear him read it out live in front of an audience so you get to hear the reaction and you just. He's so funny. Funny. It's so effortlessly. Of course he's not effortlessly funny. It takes an enormous amount of effort, but it's, there's, there's a humor to it that is a bit like other people's but it's not like anyone in particular. There's. He just has, he has a very, very special voice.

[Marina Hyde]

He's amazing.

[Richard Osman]

Some of his jokes are just. And I admire no one more in the world than someone who can really tell a proper joke that no one's ever told before. And he is amazingly good at that. So it's the Land and Its People by David Saddam.

[Marina Hyde]

Right, I think that wraps us up for today. We will obviously be back tomorrow with the first one of our Bond series. It is really cool. It's such fun.

[Richard Osman]

We're doing a few more Q and A's as well, which we're looking for our listeners to send in questions. I'm going to be interviewing John Grisham. I love John Grisham so much. So if you have any questions for John Grisham, please send them in to thereisters entertainmentolehanger.com and also we'll be interviewing the new hosts, Strictly so, Josh Whitakem, Johannes Radebi and Emma Willis. So if you've got any questions for them then? Same address wrestlers entertainmentalhanger.com so John Grisham, any questions about, you know, his writing methods? Any questions about the movie adaptations, anything like that? Any questions about being virtually the best selling author of all time? I'm sure he'll answer all of those. And anything for Josh Whitakem, Emma Willison, Johannes Radeb, please.

[Marina Hyde]

And other than that, we'll be back on Thursday for our questions and answers.

[Richard Osman]

See you on Thursday.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

Foreign.

[Richard Osman]

Hello everyone. We've got some exciting news to share with the listeners of the Restor's Entertainment.

[Marina Hyde]

We do indeed. We are holding a summer sale so you can become a member of the club for a third off the regular price.

[Richard Osman]

That's right. With the code Summer26, you can head to the Wrestlers Entertainment and claim an annual membership with this brilliant discount.

[Marina Hyde]

So if you want to spend your summer listening to us discussing celebrity drama, behind the scenes stories and industry gossip, but have none of the ads and why wouldn't you? It is a no brainer.

[Richard Osman]

Plus you can catch up with all of the archive of our members only shows you may have missed, including Marina's latest series of Vibe Shift.

[Marina Hyde]

And we've got lots more of those special series planned. But remember, this deal will only run until the end of August, so don't wait around. Head to therestays entertainment.com now.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

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[Marina Hyde]

Hello.

[Richard Osman]

Look what T.J. maxx dragged in.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

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[Richard Osman]

We are digital. We are downloadable. We are streamable.

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[Marina Hyde]

Pull yourself together. We have work to do.

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[Marina Hyde]

That's all.

[Producer/Advert Voice]

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