Would Coldplay Win Eurovision?

Summary

The Rest Is Entertainment – "Would Coldplay Win Eurovision?"

Hosts: Richard Osman & Marina Hyde
Date: May 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of The Rest Is Entertainment is a Q&A special, where Richard Osman and Marina Hyde delve deep into the quirks, conventions, and industry secrets of TV, film, and popular culture. Key topics include a heated discussion about the best James Bond themes (with musical insider insight), the accuracy of common TV and film tropes, behind-the-scenes shifts on Strictly Come Dancing, the realities of media political allegiance, and a detailed evaluation of Eurovision – including whether a global band like Coldplay could break the so-called "UK curse".

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Best James Bond Theme – Insider Opinions & Listener Poll ([02:10]-[08:34])

• Listener Response to Last Week’s Debate:

  • The previous episode’s debate about Bond themes drew a passionate response from listeners, even from composer David Arnold himself.
  • David Arnold’s Email:
    • His favorite Bond song: "You Only Live Twice" (John Barry/Nancy Sinatra), as it was the first he saw in the cinema.
    • The best Bond theme: "On Her Majesty’s Secret Service" – an instrumental, which Arnold (composer of five Bond themes) champions despite its divisiveness.
  • Fun Trivia:
    • Jack White’s "Seven Nation Army" was inspired by "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" ([03:31]).

• Marina’s Mea Culpa:

  • Admits to blanking on Bond themes last week, feels particularly criticized for underappreciating "Live and Let Die":

    "I think it’s a brilliant song, but...not, to me, a sort of quintessential Bond theme. I prefer the female vocal on a Bond theme." — Marina ([04:19])

• Top Bond Themes – Listener Poll Results (Richard):

  • Tied for 9th: "No Time to Die" (Billie Eilish) / "A View to a Kill" (Duran Duran)
  • 8th: "All the Time in the World" (Louis Armstrong)
  • 7th: "You Know My Name" (Chris Cornell)
  • 6th: "Goldeneye" (Tina Turner)
  • 5th: "Diamonds Are Forever" (Shirley Bassey)
  • 4th: "Goldfinger" (Shirley Bassey)
  • 3rd: "Live and Let Die" (Wings)
  • 2nd: "Nobody Does It Better" (Carly Simon)
  • 1st: "Skyfall" (Adele) – clear winner

    "Number one with a...I would say far above number two: Skyfall, Adele. How about that?" — Richard ([07:14])

  • Worst theme: "Moonraker" (Shirley Bassey)

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2. TV & Film Tropes That Don’t Happen in Real Life ([08:35]-[14:35])

• Audience Question (Alex Howarth): Is there a name for TV/film phenomena that seem normal on screen but are rare in real life?

• Common Tropes No One Actually Experiences:

  • Mistaken identity
  • People hanging up & not just calling back
  • Witnessing a murder by chance
  • Mastermind criminals with elaborate plans (real-life crime is "sloppy and impulsive")
  • Amnesia (as common as depicted; it's not)
  • Long unconsciousness with total recovery
  • Enemies-to-lovers romances ("fictionally satisfying, but rare in life")
  • Shock evidence and witness breakdowns in court
  • Unrealistic housing affordability
  • Quicksand: Both hosts cite this as the ultimate childhood TV-induced anxiety:

    "Quicksand is the number one. Being kids... we used to think about quicksand when I was a child." — Marina ([12:00]) "I'm still nervous about quicksand now. If I'm on an unfamiliar beach or just in boggy land..." — Richard ([12:12])

• Other examples:

  • Always finding a parking space immediately
  • TV always turning on to the relevant news story
  • Loud phone alerts (in fiction, not real life)

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3. Behind the Scenes of Strictly Come Dancing ([19:39]-[25:32])

• Question (Janet Colthurst): Is Strictly’s new format (Johannes Radebe as "roving reporter") a response to audience behaviour tracked by streaming data?

• Richard’s Insight:

  • Broadcasters have extensive data on what viewers skip, rewatch, or abandon, especially streamers.
  • In a live show like Strictly, the format limits the meaning of such data—it’s more about presenter chemistry and available airtime.

    "If you've got a formatted show, you can find out quickly at which point people go, ‘No, this is…’...but on Strictly, it's happening ten times." ([20:44])

  • Most likely, tweaks (like using Johannes backstage) reflect awareness of what viewers love (e.g., behind-the-scenes glamour from It Takes Two) rather than direct data-driven choices.

    "There’s not a lot of fat to cut… I think the VTs is the place that you can cut." — Richard ([23:19])

• Writing Challenge: The new three-presenter dynamic will require smart scripting—a "three hander" is harder than a duo's banter ([25:32]).

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4. Who Decides When Newspapers Change Political Sides? ([26:21]-[30:47])

• Question (Jason Cash): Is it the owner or the editor who controls a paper’s political allegiance?
• Marina’s Answer:
  • Varies by outlet but generally, owners have ultimate say, especially in the UK.
  • Papers want to align with readership sentiment and avoid being left behind as the "herd" moves.
  • The Guardian is different: editorial conference makes the decision democratically.

    "That must be one of the worst mornings of the year…Can you imagine that meeting?" — Richard ([29:35])

  • Increasingly, the explicit endorsement matters less:

    "Nobody wants that sort of nonsense patrician instruction. They can kind of work out which side you're on anyway." — Marina ([30:32])

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5. Would Coldplay Win Eurovision? The "UK Curse" and the BBC's Gamble ([31:07]-[36:36])

• Question (Callum McKeown): Could Coldplay break the UK’s Eurovision losing streak if they entered? What does it cost the BBC?

• Financials:

  • BBC pays ~£1.3-1.5m per year (licensing, production, etc), including £0.5m for automatic final spot.
  • Still represents huge value for an event with massive ratings ([31:56]).

• Is There a UK "Curse"?

  • The UK has finished last six times this century, often due to not taking the contest seriously and not being desperate to escape the semifinal.
  • Richard:

    "We have to get rid of any idea that people hate us or that we can’t win because we definitively can." ([34:50])

  • UK came close to victory with Sam Ryder—proof it's not impossible.

• Would Star Power Win It?

  • No, not automatically. Having a big name doesn't guarantee victory; the song must suit Eurovision conventions and connect with pan-European taste.
  • Examples: Germany’s big social campaigns didn’t yield results.

• What Would Actually Work?

  • Richard proposes acts like Self Esteem who understand songwriting and Eurovision's communal power:

    "I'd love to see someone like Self Esteem do a Eurovision Song...wants to just write a big old hit that brings people together." ([36:20])

  • Ultimately, much comes down to luck and taste.

    "It is still a lottery." — Marina ([36:33])

• Memorable Moment:

  • Richard fondly recalls reading out the UK jury results on Eurovision as the "single best thing I ever did in my career." ([36:36])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "You Only Live Twice is up there in the mix... but Goldfinger, Shirley Bassey, there's something about that... it's such the sort of quintessential Bond theme." — Marina ([05:03])
• "Finding a parking space, like, right in front of somewhere... literally never happens." — Richard ([13:03])
• "If you've got a formatted show, you can find out very, very quickly if there's a point at which people go, 'No, this is...'" — Richard ([20:44])
• "Nobody wants that sort of nonsense patrician instruction. They can kind of work out which side you're on anyway." — Marina ([30:32])
• "If Coldplay entered [Eurovision], would they win? There seems to be zero correlation." — Richard ([36:33])
• "The single best thing I ever did in my career was giving out the... at Eurovision." — Richard ([36:36])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:10] – Bond theme debate resumes; David Arnold’s email and favorite themes
• [05:03] – Marina’s top Bond themes and the listener poll results
• [08:35] – TV/film tropes that aren’t realistic: from quicksand and mistaken identity to housing costs
• [12:00] – The quicksand trope, and TV-induced anxieties
• [19:39] – Strictly Come Dancing’s format changes and the impact of viewer data
• [20:44] – How broadcasters use data to make decisions and why Strictly is somewhat immune
• [25:32] – The challenge of writing for a three-host format
• [26:21] – Who calls the shots in changing newspapers’ political allegiance?
• [31:07] – The cost and public service remit of Eurovision; could Coldplay win?
• [34:50] – Debunking the "UK Eurovision curse"
• [36:36] – Richard's all-time career highlight: reading Eurovision results

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers everything fans love about The Rest Is Entertainment: self-deprecating wit, industry in-jokes, and revealing, accessible analysis of media culture’s inner workings. Whether you’re curious about “how the sausage is made” on competition shows, amused by pop culture’s most persistent myths, or just love to argue about Bond music, Marina and Richard’s camaraderie makes media critique irresistibly entertaining.

Transcript

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[A]

Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Rest Is Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

[B]

And I'm Richard Osmond. Hello, everyone. Hello, Marina.

[A]

Hello, Richard. How are you?

[B]

I'm not bad. I think this whole episode last week I said as a joke, let's call it Marina is wrong about the best Bond theme.

[A]

But I was.

[B]

And. And we've had an awful lot of people writing and they're right, Richard.

[A]

They're Right.

[B]

Oh, really? You've got a mayor Coldboy. Should I tell you someone who wrote in? And listen, lots of people wrote in and we really appreciate it, but you'll understand why I'm going to this gentleman first. David Arnold wrote in Damon.

[A]

I'm so sorry, David.

[B]

David Arnold has composed five Bond themes. He composed the Lana Del Rey track we talked about last week. David's answer is this. He said, my favorite Bond song isn't what I think is the best. He starts with that. He says, my favorite, as it was the first Bond I saw in the cinema. It's always the way is you Only Live Twice, written by John Barry, sung by the one and only Nancy Sinat. The best Bond theme, though, according to David. Now, this is controversial as well, but I cannot mock him in the same way I mock you, because he's the great genius. The best Bond theme is On Her Majesty's Secret Service, which is an instrumental, and that's David Arnold saying that you look like you want to argue, but you can't.

[A]

No, I don't. I'm ashamed of my performance last week when I literally had a mind blank as to a lot of Bond themes.

[B]

Okay, we will get to yours as well. Another thing that David says I think is interesting. He said the White Stripe song Seven Nation army was Jack Black's attempt at writing a Bond based on Her Majesty's Secret Service.

[A]

I did not know that.

[B]

Did you know that we have to listen to both of those? No, I didn't know that. So thank you, David. That's amazing. And of course, Jack Black eventually did write a Bond theme for Quantum of Solace, which I would say not as catchy as Seven Nation army, but certainly

[A]

not a catchy movie.

[B]

So what's your mea culpa?

[A]

Okay. I had a mind blank. Forgive me. I. I do the one. I agree, by the way, that you Only Live Twice is up there in the mix. I just think there's something about. I do love all. I mean, maybe people don't like it so much anymore, but I love all the silhouettes of the women. And there's something about that, that vocal which particularly lends itself to the sort of silhouettes and the, you know.

[B]

Sure, sure, now, David Arnold said it.

[A]

Yeah. No, I.

[B]

Because you. It started because you were dissing Live and Let Die. That's where we started.

[A]

I think it's a brilliant song, but as I say, I just don't love it as a Bond. It's not. I don't love it because I love the song. I think it's great, but it's not, to me, a sort of quintessential Bond theme, because I prefer the female vocal on a Bond theme.

[B]

We cannot call two episodes in a row. Marina was wrong about the best Bond theme.

[A]

Okay, right.

[B]

So what is it that you did think you got wrong?

[A]

I think Adele should be at number three with Skyfall, which I absolutely love. I love what Sam Mendes did with that film. I absolutely love it all. And I think it was kind of modern, but it's the same sort of thing. And the huge, amazing singer managing to do something with something that, you know, we feel like we already know the conventions of. I might put you Only Live twice as number one, then. Okay, so number two is Goldfinger.

[B]

Did you do number one before you?

[A]

Yes, I did. Because he already knew I was going to maybe say it. It doesn't matter.

[B]

I didn't know what to say.

[A]

As we've established, I'm wrong about all of these things. But Goldfinger, Shirley Bassey, there's something about that Goldfinger that I just think is maybe that is. And it's almost. It's such the sort of quintessential Bond theme in some ways.

[B]

And then. And then suddenly, just seconds after David Arnold says how much he loves you. Only Live Twice, by the way, he says, it's not the Bond, it's not the best.

[A]

No, I know he says that and

[B]

that, but you're saying.

[A]

I'm not going to say he's incorrect,

[B]

so you're saying he's wrong.

[A]

Lost a chance to say anything about. Anything about these things, but, yeah, those would be my. I don't know. I didn't want to play favorites with any of those three, to be perfectly honest, but those are the three. My three. My three favorites. What about you?

[B]

I don't say this often, but you are absolutely all over the place.

[A]

Sorry about that.

[B]

I mean, that is quite something. Well, listen, it doesn't matter what I think because our listeners have been giving their opinion. We've been asking them to vote on the best ever Bond theme. So shall we do that? We'll start with. I'll do the whole top 10. We've got tied for ninth, no time to Die, Billie Eilish, which you said last week was one of your favourites, and A View to a Kill. Duran Duran. They're both tied. 9th, 8th. We have all the time in the World. Louis Armstrong. Not an official Bond theme, but was at the end of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, which in David Arnold's opinion is the very, very best. Seventh. You know my Name, Chris Cornell from Casino Royale.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. Sixth. This is even more controversial. I would say Goldeneye. Tina Turner.

[A]

Again.

[B]

No. Fifth. Diamonds Are Forever. Shirley Bassey.

[A]

Fair enough. Bassey, you've got to have up there.

[B]

Fourth, Goldfinger. Shirley Bassey. And by the way, these top four get a lot more votes than anyone else. Top three. Number three, Live and Let Die, Wings. Okay, just listeners, just so you know, the scorn that I'm seeing from.

[A]

I love the song. I just don't think it's a Bond. It's like a classic Bond theme. Okay.

[B]

Number two, Nobody Does It Better. Carly Simon. But that's. I love that song. But that's not a classic Bond theme.

[A]

No. Hasn't even got it in the title.

[B]

But that's okay. Hasn't got Bonds in the title.

[A]

It's got the words in it. Spy who Love Mia is in the lyrics, but it's not.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Number one with a. I would say far above number two. Skyfall. Adele. How about that? So, listen, at least we are brought together a little bit towards the end of this absolute mess. Do you want to know what the worst Bond theme is? Number 25 out of 25.

[A]

What?

[B]

Moonraker. Shirley Bassey. So there you go. Moonraker is bottom. The man with the Golden Gun, Thunderball, Die Another Day and Another Way to Die are at the bottom there.

[A]

Die Another Day is dreadful.

[B]

Now, funnily enough, we didn't actually poll on Her Majesty's Secret Service. I think we polled. We have all the time in the world for that. So David Arnold sits outside the list, but. So the best Bond theme is either Skyfall or Honor Majesty's Secret Service. And now we all have to listen to it and see if that's where Seven Nation army came from. Listeners, thank you so much for that. There was a lot of chatter about that, so we had to do that poll. But it feels like everyone's agreed about Skyfall and I'm happy. Cause Live and Let Die and Nobody Does It Better. My favourite two. And they're number two and number three. That sort of was a question, wasn't it? Because you very much posed a question which isn't, how wrong can I be? Yeah. How wrong can I be? How wrong can I actually be? And it turns out very, very wrong indeed. I was reading that all off the laptop, which I'm going to give to producer Joey. Oh, you almost appeared on camera there, Joey. People wouldn't believe. He's like 7 foot 6.

[A]

He dwarfs you Absolutely.

[B]

He played the mountain on Game of Thrones. Joey, I have a question for you, Marina. Oh, this is a fun one. Alex Howarth says, is there a name for the phenomenon where something is much more common on TV and film than in real life, so people begin to believe that to be true? And if so, what are your favorite examples? Food poisoning, for example. My girlfriend is convinced happens to her weekly, despite my protest that it's really not that common in real life. Gosh, there's some psychodrama there.

[A]

Yeah, there is some there. I don't think there is a name for it, although I actually started thinking about this before I came here today and I realized that I would really quickly get to a hundred examples of this, so I just sort of stopped. But you will all have your own ones of these. Okay, so in no particular order, mistaken identity. Okay, this. But this is something. Because I suppose goes back to, I don't know, Greek drama. But yeah, people tend not to mistake people for other people. People sort of putting the phone down and then a misunderstanding, lingering, and you just feel like, no, just call them back or just dial back again. If they didn't pick up the phone, just call back again. Something like that. Witnessing a murder by chance. Generally, people don't witness murders and, you know, in general, all forms of.

[B]

That's like saying going to the moon, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think they make films about murder.

[A]

They do. Yes, they do. But criminal masterminds with elaborate schemes. Really, really elaborate schemes. Because obviously in real life crime is very sloppy and it's not really, you know, it's often financially motivated and, you know, impulsive. Amnesia, for me, is a big one. I think that doesn't happen nearly as much as it does in fiction. There's a lot of medical. One unconscious for a really long time and then waking up and just sort of being fine, like, oh, hi, you know, I'm back in the room after. You would have a massive brain injury at that point. And it's just like, it doesn't work like that. Enemies to lovers. Yeah, I don't think a lot of these things are just done to make stories work. And it's really interesting. It doesn't mean that people don't want to see those things because there's something very satisfying about enemies to lovers. And we love the kind of sparring. And then when it, you know, when they get together, we really like it. But I just don't think it happens that much in real life, I have to say. But I don't. But people really. It's Very, very fictionally satisfying. So you can see also conflict makes stories work. And maybe that's the satisfaction of it all. But surprise evidence happening in court.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Hang on just a minute. Yeah, any kind of gotcha evidence that happens in court. I mean, actually people crying and breaking down and completely contradicting their witness statement because of that. Also, once you're there, you tend to just. In my. And I've covered various court cases, people don't tend to kind of get broken down and fall to pieces and then just sort of confess to everything. They kind of stick with what they went with in their witness statement. We all know the cost of characters, flats and houses and all of those. Oh my gosh, someone on that branch. People being able to afford things out of their income bracket is like beyond.

[B]

Oh, like the flats in Thursday Murder Club.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

The Thursday Murder Club. I remember thinking I said to you when you sent me the first picture of themselves. And that's Cooper's Chase. Is it? Then, wow, okay, remind me. Draw a tire there.

[B]

I mean, with respect, Spielberg couldn't afford the flats in there.

[A]

It's unbelievable. Remind me to retard to that. Cooper's Chase. Quicksand.

[B]

Quicksand is the number one. Being kids.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. We used to think about quicksand when I was a child. I was. Well, when I was. And certainly when I was a teenager, the things, you know, I was scared of quicksand ghosts and getting toxic shot syndrome.

[B]

I'm still nervous about quicksand now. If I'm on an unfamiliar beach or just in boggy land.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause you do sort of think, o. I mean, that could be it. I've seen it so many times. You've got to be so careful.

[A]

But it's fallen out of as a sort of trope of peril. It's gone because I think it became so ridiculous. But it was so ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was so ubiquitous. It would have been every sort of Saturday Tea time show would have. Knight Rider would have got caught in it. The A team would have got caught in it.

[B]

But that's very close to what Alex is saying, which is things that genuinely affect your life in some way, which are purely because you've seen them on, by the way. I don't think food poisoning. I think perhaps Alex. Perhaps your partner does get food poisoning. I think it's hard to have something.

[A]

I don't. I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on tv. I don't think we should get into that. But Yes. I think it's. There are so many of these you'll all be writing in the ones that you see.

[B]

I got a couple.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Finding a parking space, like right in front of somewhere.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, that's like. I mean, it literally never happens. You never see somebody going to a multi story car park and like going, okay, okay, there's nothing on the ground floor. Okay. It's got to the foot. No, there's nothing on there. It's just go all the way up to the roof. Because every single floor will be full apart from the roof and there'll be loads of spaces there. But no, they literally just park in front of wherever they're going. And turning on the TV just at the time that the thing that the film is about is being talked about on the news.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, you don't have to sit through like sort of, you know, three minutes on the war in Ukraine before you get. And in other news, a local businessman was murdered today. It always. You switch on and it always.

[A]

Right there is immediately always on demand.

[B]

The first thing that's talked about.

[A]

A narrative demand.

[B]

Yes. And written in such a way that would never be on the news.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I think, I mean, it's very, very hard to look past quicksand. Perhaps younger listeners.

[A]

It's completely fallen out of favor, as I say. But there are many of those things. And if I honestly, I just stopped after a little bit of time because there are so many. But you'll all have your own ones and I'm looking forward to hearing yours.

[B]

People who have the volume up on their phone, people that have alerts on their phone, just so you know that a text has come through, I think. Who's got. Then who's got. Their mom has.

[A]

But they don't really.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense for definite. Yeah. Anyway, do write in. And Alex, we'll do some more of those next week as well, I think. Shall we go for a break? And after the break, I think we have questions on Strictly and Eurovision.

[A]

Oh, yes. Okay, Very good. Let's go.

[B]

Okay. Wow, you really mean it. Oh, my God. You love adverts.

[A]

Yeah, I do. I love them. This episode is brought to you by Lloyds. Now, I love it when characters are part of a club. You wouldn't know anything about that, would you, Richard?

[B]

Thursday Murder Club in some ways reminds me of the A Team.

[A]

I would now like to map each of those characters onto the A team and feel I probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's

[B]

not even close that's exactly right. And Ron is howling mad Murdoch.

[A]

Well, there are definite perks to being in a club. Just ask the members of Club Lloyds, because with Club Lloyd, you can bank on Lloyd to give you more. Wherever you are, if you join Club

[B]

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[A]

They've got an annual coffee club and Gourmet society membership, which would be mine.

[B]

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[B]

This segment is brought to you by Lloyds, the home of Club Lloyds.

[A]

Now, the film industry has always had its private rooms, the sort of deals, dinners, jewelleries, where the buyers and critics who decide what gets notice meet and they also decide what gets financed and what gets talked about.

[B]

And one of the best examples of that would be Cannes, the Cannes Film Festival, which is a club that, once you're in it can be very, very lucrat.

[A]

So what does it mean to enter one of cinema's most prestigious clubs? And what actually changes once Cannes lets you in?

[B]

You've been to Cannes a number of times?

[A]

I have. It feels like the whole town becomes this very, very prestigious club. It's interesting because the thing about the Cannes Festival is that everyone there is 100% convinced that they matter. And it all matters almost more than anything. It's like a real place of unapologetic sort of star power, star culture, glamour. And it's quite easy to sort of walk around and think, would I be admitted this club? Well, a lot of the parties happen on boats. Some people. Yeah, some people say, have rules. I will never go to a party on a boat.

[B]

I don't like a party on a boat because you can't leave.

[A]

Yeah. But nonetheless, lots of the big and prestigious parties do happen on a boat. So is that that sense that if you're not part of it, you're on the shoreline, kind of not pressing your nose quite up against the window, but that's where you.

[B]

They call it a porthole.

[A]

Yeah, porthole. If you're at the Porthole, you're too close.

[B]

But it definitively is can. If you are accepted at Cannes, suddenly you are in the Hollywood club. I think that's for sure. Isn't it something like Pulp Fiction, which won Cannes many, many years ago and went on to win Oscars? Parasite would be another good example of a film that was massive at Cannes.

[A]

Steve Soderbergh Sex lives and videotapes he was 26. If they agree that they will allow your film to be shown in competition and they have to some extent admitted you into the club, then it becomes enormous and you can arrive as a nobody, like Steven Soderbergh did. Really? And then you leave. It's like, oh my gosh, you're now going to be in all the awards conversation back in the. It can become a big thing if you win the Palme d'. Or.

[B]

Like Anora would be another example of that.

[A]

Yes, Anora would be a huge thing. And Shawn Baker said, I'm the director, you know, I'm not sure we were a big film at all before that. And then suddenly it dominates all the awards conversation. So there is a sense that once you've been swept up into the Cannes club, that great things are going to happen for you.

[B]

Talking of clubs, we go. Listen, this is a more everyday version of a club, but one that's easier to join. I would say that rather than having to make a movie or swim up to a porthole. Or swim up to a porthole. Club Lloyd's. Here's the segue. It's rather easier to join than the Cannes Club. You do not have to make an Oscar winning film to get in. But there are still many, many rewards.

[A]

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[A]

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[E]

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[A]

Welcome back, everybody. Now, there is a very good question which can lead us into various bits about Strictly, because there's obviously news. Janet Colthurst asks. Given the announcement that Johannes Radebe is going to be some sort of roving robbery reporter on this year's Strictly, I've started wondering whether the show is quietly changing its format and whether a change like this is influenced by audience data. Do streaming platforms know exactly which scenes people skip, rewatch or abandon? If so, are producers starting to shape programs around that data?

[B]

There's two questions there that I'll take the second bit first, which is do broadcasters have that information? Yes, they do. They, they absolutely have sort of minute by minute information about when people switch off, when they don't switch off. And certainly the, the streamers, I mean, that's, it's absolute grist of their mill. That's absolutely part of their business plan.

[A]

It's, you know, including for shows like ours, you, you know, everything. How long they stay, where they.

[B]

Yeah, you know, we can, we can access that data. So it's, you know, for example, if Marina is wrong about Bonds, suddenly everyone switches off because they're just like, they're just fuming.

[A]

People come to listen at that point because they love to hear it.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. You know, if you've got a formatted show, you can find out very, very quickly if there's a point at which people go, no, this is. Or, you know, like the music act on, you know, on an entertainment show, that's when people switch off and so always has been, always will be. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have them, but, you know, that's definitely when people switch off. And dramas as well. They absolutely know at what point they abandoned it. Or film, they'll know what time they abandoned it and, you know, but they'll do all that in testing as well. You know, they'll sit with the test audience with, you know, little dials when they're happy, when they're not happy. And so forever and ever, TV's been. TV and film have been very good at that. In terms of Strictly, I don't think that is the case because it's not really have a format as such. If you think about what Strictly is. We introduce the judges, we'll do a dance, we'll go to Tess, Tess will introduce the couple that'll finish. And so Tess will ask for opinions. You'll go upstairs and Claudia will be talking to the couple. We then get the votes, rinse and repeat with VTs in between. So that's always been the format of that. And so there sort of isn't a point at which if there's a bit of that that you would turn off at, then it's happening 10 times in so you know, it's sort of meaningless.

[A]

I would say that 7 million people or something watch it live.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's harder to tell what people are doing in that.

[B]

Yes, yeah, it sort of is. But enough people are watching it on catch up that you can. So yes, they're going to have three hosts now. And I think that is not. Or people don't like this or something. But you cut your cloth according to your presenters. You have the opportunity now to ring the changes a little bit because that show is on train tracks and we've talked before about the fact that it needs to be on train tracks because it's a big live show and you've got a lot to get in. And you know, anytime you run over by five seconds on even a single element of it, then you know you're

[A]

eating into someone else's time.

[B]

You're eating into someone else's time because you have to come off air at the right time. So now you know, they've got cause Josh and Emma Willis hosting, which by the way I think is going to be a great combination. And Johannes backstage, they are obviously building new things into the format. Now what they can't cut down on is I don't think they will cut down on number of contestants. They are not gonna cut down on the length of dances. No, they're definitely still gonna have some VT stuff. Cause you need that. But my guess would be. And you can't really cut down on what Tess did because that was very, that was always very, very tight. You're probably not gonna cut down on what Claudia did. Cause that's not, that's barely any of it. So there's not a lot of fat to cut. I think the VT's is the place that you can cut.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

I think that, you know, if those VTs are 120 seconds, there's nothing to say. They shouldn't be 75 seconds. And give yourself four minutes, five minutes really for Johannes to do three hits backstage, something, you know, maybe of 90 seconds each, something like that.

[A]

And so is that what he's gonna do? Is it gonna be backstage or will he go out to the VT places

[B]

It's a very good question. I imagine they'll use him for all sorts of different things and I imagine he'll come out. I imagine the three of them will be out there out front at the beginning. Of course he's gonna do lots of dancing within that and we'll see him in group dances and. And all of that stuff. So I think that, yeah, they will just fight because there is not a lot of fat on that show. I know it feels like there might be, but I don't think there is really isn't. I don't think. I don't think the judges will agree to having 30 seconds less on each thing because why would you? Because they have to do their job seriously and they take it seriously. So I would think maybe you cut down a little bit on VTs. Maybe they'll add 5 minutes, 10 minutes to the duration, which is absolutely. They can do that. Wouldn't be an issue at all. But I think that it's just adding an extra element which is to see behind the scenes, which people like anyway. And you get a lot of it on It Takes Two. You know, you'll see wardrobe and stuff like that. And it's a shame not to see that on Strictly because it's part of the glamour of the thing and Johannes is a perfect person to do that. So yeah, I think it's probably. It's not. They're responding to what viewers have switched off. I think they are thinking, we love this show. What is it it that viewers love? What are the most popular bits on It Takes Two? What are the bits that people always really, really respond to? And we get Johannes to do that.

[A]

Some of those. I agree. Although in general. Absolutely. Janet, all shows are looking at that data all the time and completely modifying, you know, strictly slightly different for the reasons you said. But lot are always looking at things like that and it's what's created huge amounts of the dynamics in things like Netflix show where they say something enormous has to happen at the end of episode four of a draft. You know, there's quite a. There's a sort of template now for lots of this stuff and it's because they know they have so much data on audience behavior.

[B]

What I'm fascinated in is if they do all come out at the beginning, which they will, is that idea of having to write a three hander, which is quite hard writing. Rob Collie has written on that show for years and years and years. By the way, I'm reliably informed that there's a brilliant Joke on have I got news for you this week about a monk Jack that was found on the escalator in. And the joke was it's not the first person, first time someone's been in Ms. And said oh that's a little deer. And I'm reliably informed Rob Collie wrote that joke. But to do a three hander at the top, that's very hard. If you watch Holmes under the Hammer now, you know that's a tough intro but it's gonna be a really fun refresh and it's different, you know, can't be the same because then you're gonna be directly compared to Tess and Claudia and that's not fair on anyone. So yeah, if you. It feels to me you've got three great presences there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Marina, a question for you. Jason Cash. That's a good name.

[A]

Very good name.

[B]

That's a really good name, Jason. If I could use that at some

[A]

point I was about to say yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

[B]

Jason Cash. Anyway, Jason, he does have a question. He says, who makes the call when a newspaper changes its political allegiances? Would it be the editor or the owner?

[A]

It's a good question because I think we're going to start seeing more of does really depend and it's different from paper to paper and proprietor to proprietor. But in general newspapers, most newspapers have been quite small c Conservative in that they. It doesn't happen very often. You kind of know broadly. But we had a two party system,

[B]

a change in allegiance.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So it hasn't happened but it's definitely one to watch now because we used to have a two party system. The times actually has changed a lot. I don't know, you know, lots of people changed who would never have said vote labor suggested voting for Tony Blair. I also by the way, find the whole business of I suppose we're talking about one thing generally like which party does this paper kind of covertly support which when it comes to a general election did they in that ridiculous fashion tell their readers to vote for? The Times has varied quite a lot over history. The sun was left wing back in the start but then became under Murdoch, you know, huge sort of Thatcherites. They said vote Blair and they backed labor in 2024. But you know what, they want to reflect their readers when they can feel the vibe or the writing is on the wall.

[B]

The writing is on the wall by the way, is number 11 in the best Bond themes, the Sam Smith one.

[A]

A lot of that has come from Murdoch, the proprietor, but also People within those organizations pointlessly or successfully second guess Murdoch all the time and think, what would my boss like all the time? And it's always happened, you know, are they gonna go ro reform in 20, 20, 29 or whenever the election happens to be. I would have thought that's possibly quite likely, but I don't, you know, the Times will, for instance. So there has. There is that sort of disparity. The Mail, are they going to go reform? The Telegraph. Lots of things are going to change now because we've got lots of different.

[B]

If you're a political leader, you know, we've seen historically, Blair going out to Australia and meeting Murdoch and stuff like that. If you're Farage, who do you target? The owners or the editors or both?

[A]

Do you just think that none of this matters anymore and it all matters so much less ever did it would be. It's a nice to have, isn't it? I don't think he particularly cares. The FT have, you know, endorsed the Lib Dems, Tories, whatever. I remember the. And in terms of how it's done, by the way, lots of these people just don't want to be left behind. They don't want to. If they think that the pack has moved or the herd has moved or whatever it is and that that's the way, you know, like you. You knew that New labor were going to win in 1997. Do you want to be the person saying, I'll vote for the tard old Tories? They. There's always a thing where they actually slightly want to reflect what's happened. Everyone wants to back away, lead everyone by the nose. Forget thinking they lead anyone by the nose anymore. It's just that is dead. The Guardian is different. They have an editorial conference to decide who is backed.

[B]

Oh, my God, that must be one of the worst mornings of the year.

[A]

I tend not to.

[B]

Can you imagine that meeting?

[A]

I haven't attended it for a while, but they have a long discussion about it. I mean, I think, you know, this time lots of people will want Green to be endorsed. And there are different ways of everyone doing this. Either it's so obvious it comes from the proprietor or there's a sort of tacit agreement, agreement anyway, that you'll get that some of those papers, as I say, will back reform because they think that's where their readership's going and they don't want to look off the pace, basically. And they are off the pace, as we already know that the media organizations have changed so much. So I do Think. I mean, when Jeff Bezos said, well, why do we even have to have a leader saying who we support in this election? Even though I don't sympathize with him on almost anything. I sort of agree with the Washington Post. I mean, nobody wants that sort of nonsense patrician instruction. They can kind of work out which side you're on anyway. And for me it's always embarrassing. Always, always embarrassing. It tends to be a top down thing and occasionally someone like. And occasionally the Guardian will let everybody decide.

[B]

But certainly if an editor and an owner were to disagree, then the owner would win that argument.

[A]

Oh, yeah. In our country. Yes.

[B]

Yeah. And in America.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, perhaps. Yeah. I know, I don't know. In the old way. In the old ways. No, not always in America.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I think it might be, you know, they remember they are on such an ego trip about their journalism and how sacred it is, even though it's been so often shown not to be. But so there is a sort of self regard there that thinks it's absolutely sane. Chris sank that the editor must decide. But yeah, what actually happens in the back room is not so clear cut.

[B]

Yeah. Jeff Bezos would.

[A]

Bezos will do what he likes, of course, as they now know. Okay. Richard Callum McKeown would like to say, if Coldplay entered the Eurovision Song Contest, would they win it or is the UK curse. What is the butcher's bill for the BBC and is there any public service value?

[B]

There's a lot there. And the bill somewhere around 1.3, 1.5 million. They pay half a million for the sort of the rights to screen it and also by the way, the rights to get straight through to the fine ox, who are one of the largest contributors. When you add in the BBC's production, bits of it and all the programming around it, it's probably A. Around 1.3, 1.5, which massive ratings. Yes. Less than it used to. I think it was about five and a half this year, which is.

[A]

Which is still far and away bigger than anything else.

[B]

Really, really, really big. But you know, it's certainly the lowest it's been. But, you know, it takes up an entire Saturday night. I always think it starts quite late. Yeah, Eurovision. I mean, if there's any way, you know, if the BBC, if we're allowed straight into the finals, surely we're allowed to start it an hour earlier. I'm absolutely certain that discussion's been had. So it is, you know, for what it delivers, it's not insanely expensive. Is there any public Service remit for it. Huh? I mean, in a way, given the sort of programming the BBC does around it and you know, talk about music, bringing people together and things like that, I guess there is an argument for it. Plus I've always been of the view that, you know, big entertainment that brings families together is one of the jobs of the BBC. And definitively that's what Eurovision.

[A]

And continents, Richard, and continents.

[B]

I mean, like it brings, I mean, more incontinence, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I think it's one of those things that the BBC does very well and is part of the, you know, it's like sport. It's like the FA cup final, Eurovision. I mean, that's exactly what it is. And no one's obsessing about the ratings for the FA cup final. Exciting.

[A]

There's no programming about it. In the old days, the front page of BBC Sport website on the morning of the FA cup final, you had to scroll so far down to find

[B]

what's of Chelsea, Man City.

[A]

I mean, to find. Yes, but nonetheless, okay, fun for Chelsea

[B]

fans, Fun for Man City fans.

[A]

You could get up in the morning and you could start watching things and now it's like, yeah, yeah, same. Yeah, but there was nothing for so late until. So late until right down the bottom of the website.

[B]

But so, yeah, I think that, you know, it's almost got like protected status in that way. I mean, yeah, we've. Listen, we've come last six times this century. Plum last six times this century. A number of reasons for it, of course. You know, we have taken it less seriously. The fact that we get straight through to the final means that we're not terrified about being knocked out. And in the semi finals, I think we try and win it. Yeah, that's for sure. So would Coldplay win now? No, unless the song is great, which if it's Coldplay, probably would be. You know, there's lots of people with big, big, big social media presences in Eurovision this year who did nothing. The German song, for example.

[A]

So I needs to be great in the Eurovision style as well. There's something quite specific about it.

[B]

There is something quite specific about it and you can get very technical about it. And the brilliant Chris Lockhart often produces these incredible statistical filled things of how to write a Eurovision hit. When the key change should happen, what language should it be in, all of that stuff, what time it should be in. I think that there's no real reason for it. No one wants to vote for Britain particularly, but other than the Ukrainian entry Winning. We would have won it a couple of years ago with Sam Ryder. So we have to get rid of any idea that people hate us or that we can't win because we definitively

[A]

can win that song. Yeah, it was perfect.

[B]

Yeah, there was something great about it. And by the way, I couldn't tell you why, because if you asked me to pick a Eurovision song, we would almost certainly come last. And the guy on no computer is clearly a very, very, very smart guy and very entertaining guy, does incredible things. And, you know, I did feel for him. You could see him thinking, this really felt like a good idea. And I just. I'm not absolutely sure that it was. But, you know, this. Oh, we're always stupid, you know, we don't know how to do it. I mean.

[A]

I mean, that's not true.

[B]

Almost every country always loses, you know, it's very few, very few countries, you know. If the Bulgarian song had been our song, would we have won? We have to say probably yes, because we have the example of Sam Ryder, which tells you. Which tells you we are absolutely capable of winning the Eurovision Song Contest. If Coldplay entered, would they win? I think the question is, would a band that is massive automatically get enough votes that they would win? There seems to be zero correlation. Correlation. I mean, we've put in all sorts of bands over the years, haven't we? Blue probably being the. The biggest and who did perfectly well. I think they were top 10. But it's. I think there's zero correlation. It's. It's quite a meritocratic thing, the Eurovision Song Contest and those juries and the, and the. And. And the public decide. I mean, where I. Coldplay would. I want to do it. Actually, Coldplay really, really wouldn't need to do it. But, you know, there's, There's. It's. I'd love to see someone like Self Esteem do a Eurovision Song, you know, because. Someone who absolutely gets why people list music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And gets how music connects to people and it isn't there because it's a novelty, but wants to just write a big old hit that brings people together. But it's. I would hate to be in charge of who the British entry is, because.

[A]

Yeah, you can't get it. You can't. I mean, it's. It is still a lottery.

[B]

It is. There's a lot of it. That's a lottery and it's still one of my favorite. I've said many times before, the single best thing I ever did in my career was giving out the. At Eurovision of anything I've ever done in my entire career across all the different media, that was still my favourite saying. Hello, London calling. Here are the votes from the UK jury. Just to remind you, we will be talking to Steven Spielberg very soon for one of these Q and A things. But as always, we want your questions. That's much the most fun way of doing it. So it's the rest is entertainmentolhanger.com if you've got a question for Steven Spielberg for our members. Marina, your series of bonus episodes talking to James Kanagasorian. The one on Timothy Chalamet is out this week. And opera and ballet. Was he right about that? And I know lots of people because the first one was free, listened to and loved the first one on TradWives. If you haven't heard it, listen to that. And if you do want to join and become a member, it is theresicentertainment.com@free listening, all that kind of stuff.

[A]

Otherwise, we'll see you next Tuesday.

[B]

See you next Tuesday. Foreign.

[F]

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