Podcast Summary: The Rest Is History - Episode 545: The French Revolution: The First Feminist (Part 2)
Release Date: March 6, 2025
Hosts: Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook

Introduction to Marianne and the Symbolism of Liberty

The episode delves into the emergence of Marianne, an allegorical figure representing the French Republic, during the tumultuous summer and autumn of 1792. Dominic Sandbrook opens the discussion by highlighting Marianne's origins and symbolic importance:

Dominic Sandbrook [03:48]: "Marianne, who is this woman wearing the Phrygian cap, the liberty cap, long flowing hair, will become the emblem of France itself."

Tom Holland reflects on the juxtaposition of the Revolution's brutality with the hope embodied by Marianne:

Tom Holland [04:29]: "Even while people are being dragged out of prisons and hacked to death, there is also an absolutely invigorating and inspiring sense of optimism and hope."

Universal Male Suffrage and Its Historical Significance

The conversation shifts to the National Convention's establishment on September 20, 1792, emphasizing the introduction of near universal suffrage for men. This groundbreaking move eliminated previous class and property distinctions, allowing all men over 21 to vote. Tom Holland underscores its importance:

Tom Holland [07:03]: "This is democracy in action. It's the closest to the modern ideal of democracy that we have."

However, Dominic Sandbrook expresses skepticism about universal suffrage:

Dominic Sandbrook [06:40]: "Yeah, I don't find it inspiring at all. I don't think everybody should have the vote, so... Difference between me and the French revolutionaries."

The Role of Women in the French Revolution

Despite the Revolution's predominantly male-driven narrative, women played significant roles, albeit often underrepresented in historical accounts. The hosts discuss various female figures and their contributions:

1. Madame Roland:

   • Tom Holland [20:12]: "She is the wife of Girondin minister, and she essentially is the archetype of the woman who runs a revolutionary salon."
   • Madame Roland actively influenced political decisions and supported her husband’s political maneuvers but maintained traditional views on women's roles in public life.

2. Olympe de Gouges: The Radical Feminist

   • Dominic Sandbrook [25:03]: "Historically, women often opposed suffrage campaigns, embodying internalized societal constraints."
   • Tom Holland [38:23]: "More than anybody else in the revolution, she is exposing this key hypocrisy. If there are rights of men, then why not rights of women?"

Olympe de Gouges is portrayed as a pioneering feminist who authored the "Declaration of the Rights of Woman and of the Female Citizen," challenging the Revolution’s gender biases.

Challenges and Opposition to Women's Suffrage

The episode highlights the significant resistance women faced when advocating for political rights. Influential figures like Robespierre and the Montagnards opposed women's suffrage, drawing on classical Roman ideals and contemporary philosophical influences to justify their stance:

Tom Holland [50:10]: "These are the people who are, you know, they're all in favor of sans culotte, wearing the liberty cap cap, the bonnet rouge... but not actual women."

Rousseau's philosophical works are cited as major influences shaping these patriarchal views:

Tom Holland [50:43]: "Rousseau has an incredible vein of hostility to any notion of female emancipation, of female suffrage."

Public Perception and Legacy

The hosts discuss how contemporary society has begun to recognize and honor the contributions of women like Olympe de Gouges, who were previously marginalized in historical narratives. Dominic Sandbrook emphasizes:

Dominic Sandbrook [57:11]: "By far, she's the most radical. The ridicule and contempt she faced indicate how unimaginable her ideas were at the time."

Tom Holland adds a modern perspective, reflecting on ongoing gender debates:

Tom Holland [58:04]: "It's nice to hear you finally say something good about the revolution. So Theo will be pleased about that."

Conclusion and Reflection

The episode concludes by acknowledging the profound impact of feminist thinkers during the French Revolution and their lasting legacy on modern political ideals. Both hosts agree that the Revolution was a crucible for radical ideas, some of which continue to resonate and challenge societal norms today.

Dominic Sandbrook [59:29]: "Including women themselves. Exactly. That they are, as it were... absolutely trapped by theirs."

Tom Holland [59:38]: "They are absolutely trapped by theirs... We may mistake for truths so self-evident that they don't need to be argued for, that they're radical intellectual, ideological innovations."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dominic Sandbrook [03:48]: "Marianne... will become the emblem of France itself."
• Tom Holland [04:29]: "There is also an absolutely invigorating and inspiring sense of optimism and hope."
• Tom Holland [07:03]: "This is democracy in action. It's the closest to the modern ideal of democracy that we have."
• Dominic Sandbrook [06:40]: "I don't find it inspiring at all. I don't think everybody should have the vote..."
• Tom Holland [20:12]: "Madame Roland... is the archetype of the woman who runs a revolutionary salon."
• Tom Holland [38:23]: "More than anybody else in the revolution, she is exposing this key hypocrisy."
• Dominic Sandbrook [57:11]: "She's the most radical. The ridicule and contempt she faced indicate how unimaginable her ideas were at the time."
• Tom Holland [59:38]: "They may mistake for truths so self-evident that they don't need to be argued for."

This episode provides a nuanced exploration of the interplay between the French Revolution's political advancements and the concurrent struggle for women's rights. By highlighting figures like Marianne, Madame Roland, and Olympe de Gouges, Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook shed light on the often-overlooked feminist dimensions of this pivotal historical period.