Podcast Summary: The Rest Is Politics | Episode 374: "Question Time: Why The US Needs A Leader Of The Opposition"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Rest Is Politics
• Host/Authors: Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart
• Episode: 374
• Release Date: February 20, 2025
• Description: Hosted by former Downing Street Director of Communications and Strategy Alastair Campbell and cabinet minister Rory Stewart, the podcast offers an insider’s view on politics, fostering constructive disagreements across the political spectrum.

Introduction to Episode

The episode begins with brief promotional segments endorsing sponsors and membership benefits. The main content commences at the 03:12 mark, titled "Question Time," where Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart engage with questions from listeners, delving into pressing political issues both domestically and internationally.

1. Europe's Exclusion from Ukraine Peace Talks

Question: How dangerous is Europe's exclusion from the Ukraine peace talks?
Timestamp: 04:17

Discussion: Rory Stewart highlights the complexities of European unity, noting that despite a common defense and security policy, European nations often prioritize national interests, leading to significant internal divisions. He states:

"European nations still pursue their own interests... you're dependent on this very difficult coordination between European countries."
– Rory Stewart [04:17]

Alastair Campbell concurs, reflecting on the impact of Trump's departure from European values, which has inadvertently pushed Europe to bolster its defense mechanisms due to perceived unreliability from the US.

"The Trump first term message... sparked this element of panic."
– Alastair Campbell [05:50]

2. UK's Relationship with the US and Europe Post-Brexit

Question: What would it look like for the UK to move away from the US as its closest ally?
Timestamp: 04:17

Discussion: Rory emphasizes the significant difference between EU and US alliances, pointing out Europe's fragmented defense spending and logistical challenges compared to the cohesive and substantial US military support. He warns of a "very big transition" should the UK consider distancing itself from the US.

"Instead of getting one enormous economy... you're dependent on this very difficult coordination between European countries."
– Rory Stewart [04:17]

Alastair adds that the shift in UK-US dynamics under Trump has led Europe to enhance its own defense efforts independently.

"Europe isn't spending as much as the US... this is why Europe is getting its act together on defense."
– Alastair Campbell [05:50]

3. Customs Union Debate and Brexit Negotiations

Question: Will the UK take the lead in creating a European military coalition to protect the continent against the threat from Russia?
Timestamp: 04:17

Discussion: Rory Stewart recounts his support for the Customs Union and the challenges faced in implementing it, citing opposition not from Brexit advocates but from hard remainers seeking a second referendum.

"The problem for them were the Customs Union... I lost in the lobbies."
– Rory Stewart [06:39]

Alastair Campbell underscores the importance of the Customs Union for small businesses, referencing Peter Kellner’s insights on the operational hurdles faced post-Brexit.

"Businesses are dealing with increased paperwork, soaring freight costs... they lost their goods in customs checks."
– Alastair Campbell [09:00]

Both agree on the necessity of a Customs Union-like agreement to streamline UK-EU relations.

"We don't disagree on this one, do we? We agree violently."
– Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart [10:04 - 10:16]

4. International Aid and Political Polarization

Question: Have you misinterpreted or are there not areas of agreement between Rory and Donald Trump that government aid spending is frequently wasteful?
Timestamp: 10:16

Discussion: Rory addresses critiques comparing his stance on USAID with Trump’s views, emphasizing the need for reform rather than abolition of aid agencies.

"You need to reform and improve the way in which they operate."
– Rory Stewart [12:35]

He draws parallels between the polarized debate on aid and the Brexit discussions, advocating for a middle ground approach.

"Making the argument for the lesser evil... do smarter stuff in the middle."
– Rory Stewart [12:35]

Alastair supports Rory's perspective, highlighting the importance of honest communication about past actions and their implications.

"Be honest and straightforward about your past as well as your present."
– Alastair Campbell [37:25]

5. Potential Breakdown of the UN and Formation of Alternative Structures

Question: Could you see America, China, India, and Russia breaking away from the United Nations, disbanding BRICS, and forming their own alternative security and economic structures?
Timestamp: 13:03

Discussion: Rory expresses skepticism about the emergence of a new global structure, suggesting that current divisions make it unlikely for a unified alternative to the UN to form.

"What's more likely is you'd have a series of ad hoc meetings... which is exactly what international institutions were supposed to prevent."
– Rory Stewart [13:34]

Alastair echoes this sentiment, noting the increasing reluctance of major powers to support the UN and other international institutions.

"America doesn't like any international institutions right now."
– Alastair Campbell [13:34]

6. Defining "Sleek" in Modern Politics

Question: Which modern-day politician best suits the adjective "sleek"?
Timestamp: 14:43

Discussion: The hosts playfully define "sleek" and suggest Peter Mandelson as an example, highlighting his polished public persona.

"Peter Mandelson... Very good. He's going to have to be quite sleek."
– Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart [14:50 - 14:59]

7. Ireland's NATO Membership Prospects

Question: Do you think Ireland will seek NATO membership in the near future given rising military budgets and increasing support for NATO membership following the Ukraine war?
Timestamp: 15:01

Discussion: Rory discusses Ireland's traditional stance on neutrality, contrasting it with current geopolitical shifts and the influence of the US-Ireland relationship.

"Ireland is very proud of its kind of pro-Palestinian position... does Ireland feel it has a very special relationship with the United States?"
– Rory Stewart [16:04]

Alastair notes the complexity of Ireland's historical neutrality and its evolving global stance, questioning the likelihood of a swift transition to NATO membership.

"I don't know about that... neutrality is very fundamental to Irish identity."
– Alastair Campbell [16:11]

8. The US Needs a Leader of the Opposition

Question: Should the US appoint an opposition leader, similar to the UK and Australia, to provide clearer leadership against a potentially destabilizing Trump administration?
Timestamp: 19:16

Discussion: Rory critiques the current Democratic Party's lack of a strong oppositional figure analogous to the Republican opposition, highlighting the absence of clear leadership against Trump.

"How is that going to take place? Who is going to lead it?"
– Alastair Campbell [20:00]

Rory expresses concern about the US political climate's potential to escalate towards civil conflict without robust opposition leadership.

"As Trump dismantles institutions, there's going to be an opposition... more like a civil war."
– Rory Stewart [22:18]

9. Managing Communication in Multi-party Coalition Governments

Question: How would you handle managing the communication grid in a multi-party coalition commonly seen in proportional representation systems? Is narrative control and message coordination only feasible under single-party governments?
Timestamp: 24:55

Discussion: Alastair draws parallels between managing communication in NATO coalitions and multi-party governments, emphasizing the importance of inclusive and strategic communication.

"Ensure all constituent parts feel engaged and get their moments in the sun."
– Alastair Campbell [24:55]

Rory expands on the challenges posed by modern social media dynamics, questioning how traditional communication strategies adapt to platforms like X (formerly Twitter) and TikTok.

"Use podcasts and integrate modern media into your communication strategy."
– Alastair Campbell [27:58]

10. Impact of Social Media on Political Messaging

Question: With the rise of platforms like X and TikTok, how has social media transformed traditional communication strategies in politics?
Timestamp: 26:10

Discussion: Rory critiques the inefficacy of modern social media in fostering coherent political messaging, using his personal experiences with online backlash as examples.

"Random attacks... reinforce the basic message of an out-of-touch elite."
– Rory Stewart [29:21]

Alastair emphasizes the need to incorporate new media tools without abandoning foundational communication principles, suggesting formats like podcasts to maintain strategic messaging.

"Fit modern media into the overall communication strategy."
– Alastair Campbell [27:58]

11. Book Recommendations and Personal Interests

Question: What are your fun reads?
Timestamp: 40:07

Discussion: The hosts share their personal reading preferences, revealing a mix of guilty pleasures and intellectually stimulating works. Alastair mentions enjoying Charlotta Link's spy novels, while Rory recommends books like Ian Fleming's spy stories and Michael Booth's "The Almost Nearly Perfect People."

"John le Carrey stretches spy literature into real, Nobel Prize-winning stuff."
– Rory Stewart [43:58]

Alastair humorously references his appreciation for cartoon strips and spy thrillers, highlighting the diverse interests that balance their political discourse.

"Charlotta Link... a perfect spy novel with psychology and history."
– Alastair Campbell [44:48]

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Alastair and Rory reflect on the importance of honest communication and strategic messaging in politics, acknowledging the evolving landscape shaped by social media and global alliances. They emphasize the need for bipartisan cooperation and robust opposition to maintain democratic integrity, both in the UK and the US.

"Be honest and straightforward about your past as well as your present."
– Alastair Campbell [37:25]

"Embrace the new world [of social media] but without throwing out strategic principles."
– Alastair Campbell [26:49]

The hosts encourage listeners to engage thoughtfully with political processes and remain vigilant in fostering constructive dialogue across divides.

Notable Quotes:

• Rory Stewart [04:17]:
  "Instead of getting one enormous economy... you're dependent on this very difficult coordination between European countries."

• Alastair Campbell [05:50]:
  "Europe isn't spending as much as the US... this is why Europe is getting its act together on defense."

• Rory Stewart [12:35]:
  "You need to reform and improve the way in which they operate."

• Rory Stewart [22:18]:
  "As Trump dismantles institutions, there's going to be an opposition... more like a civil war."

• Alastair Campbell [27:58]:
  "Fit modern media into the overall communication strategy."

• Rory Stewart [29:21]:
  "Random attacks... reinforce the basic message of an out-of-touch elite."

Final Remarks: Episode 374 of The Rest Is Politics provides an in-depth exploration of current political challenges, emphasizing the necessity for strategic communication, cohesive alliances, and effective opposition leadership. Through insightful dialogue, Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the intricate dynamics shaping modern politics.