Podcast Title: The Rest Is Politics
Episode: 381. Question Time: Starmer’s Dilemma
Release Date: March 7, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart
Description: Two seasoned figures from the heart of Westminster delve into the intricacies of UK politics, offering an insider’s perspective on current challenges and dynamics.

Introduction

In Episode 381 of The Rest Is Politics, hosts Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart engage in a deep dive into the current political landscape of the United Kingdom, focusing primarily on the challenges faced by Labour leader Keir Starmer. Titled "Starmer’s Dilemma," the episode dissects Labour's strategic positioning, voter dynamics, and broader implications for UK politics.

Labour’s Focus on the Red Wall and Voter Dynamics

Timestamp: 02:50

Rory Stewart introduces the episode with a question from Marissa, a member concerned that Labour's intense focus on the Red Wall and policies catering to the internationalist wing might alienate voters across the political spectrum. Stewart remarks:

"Labour has been hemorrhaging votes to both the left and the right. ... it's sort of Greens and Lib Dems, Labour, Conservatives and Reform, with about 25% of the vote each."

Timestamp: 04:05

Alastair Campbell responds by highlighting the potential oversight in Labour's strategy, emphasizing that the party may underestimate voters who feel neglected beyond the Red Wall constituencies. He adds:

"There is a danger that they get so hung up on this idea and this monolithic view of what a red wall voter is, that they do underestimate people who feel taken for granted."

Public Sentiment and Desire for Change

Timestamp: 05:32

Stewart discusses polling data indicating a significant increase in the public's perception that conditions in Britain are worsening, with 72% believing things are getting worse compared to 8% who see improvement. He notes:

"People are very, very, very frustrated and want change."

However, unlike some political landscapes, there's a notable absence of support for radical, Trump-like solutions. Instead, the majority favor orderly and deliberate change.

Timestamp: 08:02

Campbell elaborates on public perceptions, noting that voters primarily blame poor leadership rather than systemic issues like regulations or funding constraints.

"The public overwhelmingly thinks, actually if these guys really wanted to get on with it, there is enough money, the rules and regulations will let them do it and they should just push ahead. And the reason they're not doing it is they're poor leaders and they're pretty inefficient, they're pretty corrupt."

Challenges for Keir Starmer and Opposition Strategy

Timestamp: 11:19

The discussion shifts to the opposition party's strategy, with Stewart suggesting that Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch should focus on presenting a cohesive and sensible vision rather than engaging in culture wars. He advises:

"Present yourself as traditional Conservatives. Traditional centrist Conservatives is much more likely to work than being a parody of Trump."

Campbell counters by emphasizing that Labour still has a substantial base:

"7 in 10 Labour 2024 voters would definitely vote Labour again tomorrow."

He suggests that Labour's main concern is not just losing to the far ends but also retaining their central voters, advocating for a balanced approach rather than an overemphasis on the Red Wall.

Middle East Focus and Documentary Insights

Timestamp: 14:33

The hosts transition to discussing Middle Eastern politics, specifically the controversy surrounding the BBC documentary "Gaza: How to Survive a War." Campbell praises the documentary's balanced portrayal, stating:

"There was no hint of sympathy for Hamas, nor that they had any influence on the documentary."

Stewart adds context about ongoing conflicts and political maneuvers in the region, highlighting Trump's role in exacerbating tensions:

"Trump's fantasy of ethnically cleansing 2 million Palestinians out of Gaza... he is still talking about acquiring Greenland from Denmark."

Campbell underscores the impact of leadership decisions on long-term peace prospects:

"It's extremely unlikely that there's going to be any serious plan to reconstruct Gaza or bring peace to Gaza..."

US Political Landscape and Trump's Influence

Timestamp: 26:24

Stewart brings the conversation to the US political system, questioning the viability of reverting to pre-Trump international relations. He outlines Trump's disruptive policies, such as:

• Removing support for Ukraine
• Imposing tariffs on allies like Canada
• Advocating for the annexation of territories like Greenland

Campbell reflects on the challenges of countering Trump's influence within the US political structure, expressing concern over the lack of cohesive Democratic opposition:

"There's no sense of a Democrat rebuttal... the structures are changing. The United Nations is changing in front of our very eyes."

Leadership and Policy Recommendations

Timestamp: 31:24

The discussion culminates with recommendations for strengthening UK-European relations post-Brexit. Stewart advocates for formal defense and security collaborations rather than ad-hoc meetings, stating:

"Imagine a proper formal structure which brings in the UK, Turkey, Norway, possibly even Ukraine itself."

Campbell concurs, emphasizing the necessity of building robust defense mechanisms to ensure long-term security and interoperability among European nations.

Personal Reflections and Book Recommendations

Timestamp: 33:58

In a shift towards personal insights, Campbell shares how certain works and personal relationships have influenced his perspectives, notably citing Johann Hari's book on drugs and the impact of his daughter Grace on his views on feminism and social justice.

Stewart reciprocates by recommending documentaries that provide deep dives into complex political issues, such as the BBC's "Gatekeepers" interviewing former heads of Shin Bet, highlighting the often-suppressed liberal voices within Israeli security apparatus.

Conclusion

Episode 381 of The Rest Is Politics offers a comprehensive analysis of Labour's strategic challenges under Keir Starmer, the shifting dynamics of UK voter blocs, and the broader implications of leadership decisions both domestically and internationally. Through insightful discussions and substantiated by recent polling data, Campbell and Stewart provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current political climate, emphasizing the importance of balanced strategies and informed leadership in navigating the complexities of modern politics.

Notable Quotes

• Rory Stewart [03:28]: "Labour has been hemorrhaging votes to both the left and the right."
• Alastair Campbell [04:05]: "We get so hung up on this idea and this monolithic view of what a red wall voter is, that they do underestimate people who feel taken for granted."
• Rory Stewart [05:32]: "People are very, very, very frustrated and want change."
• Alastair Campbell [07:33]: "I think they would say that it was about the quality of the politicians and it was about our political system."
• Rory Stewart [08:02]: "The public overwhelmingly thinks... they should just push ahead."
• Rory Stewart [11:19]: "Present yourself as traditional Conservatives... more likely to work than being a parody of Trump."
• Alastair Campbell [14:33]: "There was no hint of sympathy for Hamas, nor that they had any influence on the documentary."
• Rory Stewart [26:24]: "He has this extraordinary capacity to change the story every two days."

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