Episode 394: How We Trolled the Trolls: Putin, Trump, and Musk (with Anthony Scaramucci)
Release Date: April 14, 2025
Host(s): Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart
Guest: Anthony Scaramucci

Introduction to the Experiment (01:37 - 05:20)

In this episode of The Rest Is Politics, hosts Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart, along with guest Anthony Scaramucci, delve into an intriguing experiment: deliberately provoking trolls and bots on social media to understand their behavior and impact on political discourse. The trio outlines their strategy of crafting provocative tweets aimed at eliciting strong responses from automated accounts and real-life trolls.

Crafting the Tweets (03:50 - 05:20)

Alastair explains, “We decided to have Rory, Anthony, and I all tweet around the same time, on the same day, at the same time. Rory's new friend, the analyst, was going to track all the responses over the next few days” (03:50). Anthony shares his tweet: “Trump is unwell and his tariffs make no sense. Will the sycophants continue on course or start telling the truth?” (04:11). Rory’s tweet was more extensive: “The Trump Musk Vance alliance isn't just Chaos. It's sabotage, betraying NATO, abandoning Ukraine, hurting our economies, weakening our democracies, undermining alliances...” (04:35). Alastair’s tweet targeted Elon Musk and JD Valance, criticizing them for enabling corrupt autocracies and questioning their competence (05:01).

Analyzing the Responses (05:20 - 08:49)

The responses to these tweets were staggering. Alastair notes his tweet garnered 1.6 million views and over 4,000 replies, while Rory’s and Anthony’s tweets also received significant engagement (05:20). According to analysis by Valant, approximately 15-20% of the responses were bots, with 40-50% identified as trolls—either real individuals or AI-driven content machines (07:14). Rory explains the methodology behind Valant’s analysis: “They’ve got an AI machine and they set up a series of variables and then they mark them against them...” (07:14). This AI-driven approach uses indicators to differentiate between genuine users, bots, and trolls, providing a clearer picture of the nature of online interactions.

The Mechanisms Behind Bots and Trolls (09:14 - 12:48)

Anthony questions how their accounts were targeted: “Is it Rory as an influencer, Alistair as an influencer, or the word search using the word Trump and sycophant?” (08:49). Rory responds by outlining four main strategies used by bots:

1. Algorithmic Amplification: Tweets that quickly gain visibility and engagement are further promoted by social media algorithms.
2. Keyword Monitoring: Bots scan for specific keywords and hashtags to identify and engage with relevant content.
3. Account Targeting: Influential accounts with large followings are continuously monitored to maximize impact.
4. Preset Scripting: Prewritten responses are automatically generated to counter negative or critical tweets (09:14).

Alastair shares personal experiences of receiving hostile replies, including disturbing imagery linked to David Kelly and manipulated posts involving his daily “tree of the day” updates (12:32).

Personal Impacts and Strategies (12:48 - 18:49)

Anthony recounts his experience in the White House, where he was advised to ignore negative notifications to preserve his mental health. Despite warnings, he admits to turning notifications back on after being fired, leading to continuous harassment (12:48). Rory and Anthony discuss the emotional toll of constant online attacks, with Rory emphasizing the importance of resilience: “You don't really want to be bullied out of it... screw them. I'm not going to prepare to let them just kind of shout at me, shut me down” (31:24).

Global Implications of Social Media Manipulation (22:24 - 27:45)

The conversation shifts to the broader geopolitical impact of social media manipulation. Rory cites the disqualification of a Romanian presidential candidate due to Russian-coordinated TikTok accounts, highlighting how social media interference can influence elections and destabilize regions (23:20). Alastair references Oxford University’s research on state-sponsored media campaigns, noting China’s extensive efforts with 2 million individuals engaged in information manipulation compared to Russia’s smaller scale (26:35). Anthony underscores the significant influence these campaigns have had on events like Brexit and the rise of populist movements, asserting, “I think it is incredibly valuable... their misinformation is actually working” (27:45).

Impact on Political Discourse and Public Perception (27:45 - 30:51)

Rory connects the dots between social media manipulation and large-scale societal changes, such as the Arab Spring leading to refugee crises and the rise of far-right movements in Europe (27:45). Alastair emphasizes the diminishing influence of legacy media in countering misinformation, stating that misinformation is now produced on an industrial scale, making it harder for the public to discern truth (29:10). Anthony points out the lack of commercial interest in combating misinformation, noting that social media companies have little financial incentive to improve content accuracy (30:22).

Staying Engaged Despite the Challenges (30:22 - 32:57)

Despite the overwhelming presence of bots and trolls, both Anthony and Rory advocate for maintaining a presence on social media platforms to preserve rational discourse. Anthony believes in the importance of having a recorded voice during tumultuous times for future reflection (30:51), while Rory underscores the value of defending a space for reasonable discourse and persuasion, despite frequent criticisms and low immediate impact (31:24). They discuss strategies for effective engagement, such as Rory’s direct and assertive tweeting style, which has occasionally broken through the noise to generate significant engagement and positive responses (32:14).

Conclusion (32:36 - End)

The episode wraps up with Alastair acknowledging the challenges of engaging with trolls and bots but reaffirming the importance of using social media as a platform for meaningful discourse. The hosts express a commitment to continuing their efforts to foster intelligent and reasoned political discussions online, despite the obstacles posed by automated and malicious users.

Notable Quotes:

• Alastair Campbell: “History will not remember Elon Musk as a genius, but as a sycophantic, unhinged enabler of a failing, deeply corrupt autocracy...” (05:26)

• Rory Stewart: “You don't really want to be bullied out of it... screw them. I'm not going to prepare to let them just kind of shout at me, shut me down.” (31:24)

• Anthony Scaramucci: “I have five children, Alistair. I want them to know, hey, at least I stood up for things that I thought were classically American...” (30:51)

• Rory Stewart: “Persuasion, the center, right? And oddly, as all of us discover, just occasionally, we break through.” (31:24)

Final Thoughts:

The Rest Is Politics offers a compelling exploration of the intricate dynamics between social media, misinformation, and political discourse. By sharing their personal experiment and insights from industry experts, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, and Anthony Scaramucci highlight the significant challenges and potential strategies for combating online manipulation. This episode serves as a crucial resource for understanding the modern landscape of political communication and the ongoing battle for truth in the digital age.