Podcast Summary: The Rest Is Politics - Episode 396: "Question Time: It's over for Kemi Badenoch"

Release Date: April 16, 2025

In the 396th episode of The Rest Is Politics, hosts Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart delve into a range of pressing political issues, both domestically within the UK and internationally. This episode, titled "Question Time: It's over for Kemi Badenoch," features insightful discussions on the Australian election, the political strategies of Kemi Badenoch, the intricate relationship between Labour and trade unions, the dynamics of old versus populist politics, and the subtle influences of party colors on public perception. Additionally, the hosts share compelling book recommendations and conclude with a critical commentary on a recent political incident involving J.D. Vance.

1. Australian Election Insights

The episode kicks off with a question from Australia regarding the country's ongoing election, specifically focusing on Prime Minister Peter Dutton's campaign performance.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Dutton's Campaign Challenges: Campbell and Stewart analyze why Dutton's anti-woke and Trump-aligned strategies may be faltering. They highlight missteps such as the failed "working from home" initiative and attempts to pivot on defense deals with Russia and Indonesia, which appear desperate and unconvincing to voters.

• Albanese's Rising Popularity: The hosts predict that Albanese, the opposing candidate, has a stronger campaign momentum, potentially securing his position as Prime Minister.

Notable Quotes:

• Alastair Campbell [02:51]: "If I were a betting person I would put my money on Albanese right now because I don't think Dutton is fighting a good campaign."

• Rory Stewart [04:08]: "He wasn't helped by one of his candidates talking about making Australia great again and he was standing in the background wincing as she said it."

2. The Political Strategy of Kemi Badenoch

A central theme of the episode is the discussion surrounding Kemi Badenoch, the current leader of the Conservative Party, and the strategic choices she faces in formulating policies.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Policy vs. Narrative: Campbell and Stewart debate whether Badenoch should prioritize developing comprehensive policies or focus on crafting a compelling political narrative to engage voters effectively.

• Media and Public Perception: They critique Badenoch's alignment with right-wing media narratives and question her ability to resonate with the broader public without a clear story about her vision for the country.

Notable Quotes:

• Rory Stewart [07:00]: "Is Kemi Badenoch right not to have any policies?... if she doesn't say anything, she's going to lose momentum."

• Alastair Campbell [09:04]: "I think it’s about overall big picture strategy. And what's the story she's trying to tell about the country. Farage does have a story about the country. Basically he says it's wrecked and it's terrible and everything is awful and put me in charge and it will be fine."

3. Labour and the Trade Union Movement

The hosts transition to discussing Labour's historical and contemporary relationship with trade unions, using the Birmingham bin strikes as a focal point.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Current Strikes: The Birmingham bin strikes are examined, highlighting workers' frustrations over changes to working conditions and job descriptions that threaten their financial stability.

• Historical Context: Campbell reflects on the decline of trade union membership since the Thatcher era, emphasizing the pivotal role unions played during the World Wars under leaders like Ernest Bevin.

Notable Quotes:

• Alastair Campbell [13:27]: "Labour and the unions is a really interesting story, this. I actually wonder if at some point there isn't one to be done on Labour in the unions, because it's a story that's more interesting than the caricature."

• Rory Stewart [20:44]: "When it comes to people from working class backgrounds, there have been a couple of different studies... the number of MPs from working class backgrounds."

4. Old Politics vs. Rising Populism

A contentious debate unfolds as Rory and Alastair address whether their political approaches represent outdated strategies that have inadvertently fueled the rise of populism.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Center-Left and Far-Right Dynamics: They explore how center-left parties may inadvertently defend flawed governments, while far-right factions consistently attack, creating a polarized political landscape.

• Impact of Historical Policies: Stewart references the aftermath of events like the 2008 financial crisis and prolonged conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan as foundational to current political disillusionment.

Notable Quotes:

• Rory Stewart [27:10]: "...people are becoming less curious, we are becoming less able and willing to use our powers of reason to think beyond an instant reaction to anything."

• Alastair Campbell [28:12]: "I worry that what you're saying in that is that actually democracy has failed... we have too much of that in our politics at the moment as well."

5. The Significance of Party Colors

In a lighter yet insightful segment, the discussion shifts to the impact of party colors on public perception and electoral success.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Symbolism and Associations: Campbell and Stewart debate the traditional colors associated with political parties, their historical significance, and how they influence voter behavior.

• International Perspectives: They touch upon how color symbolism varies globally, affecting elections in countries where voters may rely more on visual cues than textual information.

Notable Quotes:

• Alastair Campbell [30:22]: "Pink is the only major color that's never been used by a political party."

• Rory Stewart [31:09]: "...in many, many developing countries, where many of the key voters in rural areas are not literate. The question of colors, the question of your slogan, the way that that's presented on the ballot paper really matters."

6. Book Recommendations

Both hosts share personal book recommendations, reflecting their diverse interests and intellectual pursuits.

Alastair Campbell Recommends:

• Israël Le Piage de L'Istoire Arrow – A nuanced exploration of Israel from a European diplomat's perspective.
• Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt – Discussing the mental health challenges of the modern youth.
• Going Under by Shana Smith – A powerful memoir detailing the author's battle with alcoholism and recovery.

Rory Stewart Recommends:

• When the Clock Con Men, Conspiracists and the Road to Trump's America by John Gantz – Analyzing the roots of America's political polarization.
• An African in Greenland by Tété-Michel Kpomassie – An extraordinary travel narrative of a Togolese man's journey to Greenland.

7. Commentary on J.D. Vance Incident

The episode concludes with Campbell providing a critical take on a recent controversy involving J.D. Vance.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Freedom of Speech: Campbell laments the dismissal of a woman who criticized Denmark in an email following Vance's visit to Greenland, highlighting a perceived contradiction in American values of free speech.

• Political Polarization: He connects this incident to broader themes of political division and the suppression of dissenting voices within established institutions.

Notable Quotes:

• Alastair Campbell [37:15]: "How pathetic was it that the woman who runs the American military base in Greenland has been sacked because she sent an email... she doesn’t agree that Denmark is a heap of shite, which is what he said."

• Rory Stewart [38:12]: "On that cheerful note, farewell speak soon."

Conclusion

In this episode, The Rest Is Politics offers a comprehensive examination of contemporary political challenges, blending international perspectives with domestic concerns. Campbell and Stewart's candid discussions provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the strategic maneuvers within political parties, the enduring influence of historical movements, and the subtle factors that shape electoral outcomes. Their thoughtful analysis serves as a valuable resource for anyone seeking to navigate the complex landscape of modern politics.