The Rest Is Politics - Episode 406: Biden, Springsteen, and Trump: Dancing in the Dark

Release Date: May 20, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart
Podcast Description: The Rest Is Politics delves into current affairs both in the UK and internationally, offering insightful analysis, debates on global issues, and insider perspectives from Westminster. Hosted by Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart, the podcast is a hub for intelligent and engaging discussions on British and global politics.

1. Introduction and Setting the Stage (01:25)

Rory Stewart opens the episode by referencing their previous in-depth discussion on the UK-EU summit, signaling continuity and depth in their analysis. He hints at upcoming discussions on recent European elections while setting the agenda to focus primarily on the United States' political landscape, particularly Joe Biden's health and Donald Trump's actions.

**2. Joe Biden’s Health Concerns and Public Perception (02:06)

Alastair Campbell brings to light alarming reports about President Joe Biden's health, mentioning a diagnosis of advanced prostate cancer alongside claims of significant cognitive decline. He shares a startling anecdote:

"one very colorful claim that people may have come across, which is that one of the reasons that George Clooney decided not to endorse him and called for him to step down is that having known Biden very long, for many years, it became clear to him that Biden didn't recognize him." (02:06)

Rory Stewart adds context, discussing how Biden's perceived cognitive issues became publicly noticeable during the Trump-Biden debates. He highlights a moment where Trump questioned Biden's understanding, stating:

“I don't know what he just said and I don't think he knows what he just said.” (03:07)

This exchange intensified public scrutiny of Biden's capabilities, though Donald Trump's recent conciliatory tweet wishing Biden a "fast and successful recovery" (04:45) contrasts sharply with his usual antagonistic rhetoric.

3. Donald Trump's Public Persona and Communication Style (05:02 & 07:11)

The hosts delve into Donald Trump's communication patterns, particularly his social media interactions. Rory highlights Trump's critical remarks about Bruce Springsteen, where Trump harshly criticizes the legendary musician's opinions about him:

“Sleepy Joe didn't have a click. Oh, the country. Sleepy Joe didn't have a clue what he was doing.” (05:21)

Alastair notes the repetitive themes in Trump's posts, emphasizing his fixation on labels like "Sleepy Joe" and his obsession with personal appearance:

“And then there's the obsession with skin. I mean his skin to require the level of makeup that he wears.” (07:33)

4. Trump’s Middle East Tour: Deals and Diplomatic Moves (10:13 & 13:02)

The conversation shifts to Trump's recent Middle East tour, which Rory describes as unconventional compared to typical presidential trips. Alastair summarizes the tour's outcomes:

“He signed a $600 billion investment deal, or it was agreed it wasn't signed, and a $142 billion arms deal. Then he went to Doha the next day for a $1.2 trillion economic exchange and back to Doha again.” (13:02)

They discuss Trump's surprising move to lift sanctions on Ahmad Al Shara, a figure previously deemed an international terrorist. This decision defied expectations and internal advisories, highlighting Trump's unpredictable foreign policy approach.

Rory introduces insights from Arab Barghouti, who believes Trump's unpredictability might inadvertently benefit Palestinian prospects, despite Trump's antagonistic policies towards Israel:

“He is not conforming to type... he's hoping to get more from these deals that seem more about showing his power and wealth.” (17:39)

5. The Role of Social Media in Modern Politics (30:19)

Rory explores the significant influence of social media platforms like TikTok in shaping political narratives. He presents surprising statistics:

• Donald Trump: 15.1 million TikTok followers
• Nigel Farage: 1.2 million TikTok followers
• Jeremy Corbyn: 200,000 TikTok followers

Rory remarks on the disparity between mainstream politicians and populist figures in garnering social media traction:

“I think that the populist right have done a better job of populating what is now viewed as the most influential social media platform among these young men.” (32:37)

This segment underscores the growing power of social media in influencing political discourse and public opinion, especially among younger demographics.

6. European Elections: Focus on Portugal and Poland (22:07 & 22:16)

Portugal: Alastair provides a detailed analysis of Portugal's tumultuous political landscape, highlighting consecutive elections in 2022, 2024, and 2025. The focus is on the rise of the far-right party, Chega, which now matches the Socialist Party's seats with 58 each and 23% of the vote. He emphasizes the role of disinformation, revealing that:

“In Portugal, 58% of the profiles that were engaging positively with Chega were fake.” (28:12)

Alastair references a study by Lee Hain and Luca Mnucci, which attributes Chega's rise to demographic factors like young, less-educated men, particularly in rural areas, challenging the previously held notion of Iberian Exceptionalism.

Poland: Rory updates on Poland's presidential election, where incumbent Donald Tusk remains Prime Minister despite the election being mainly for the presidency. The right-wing candidate, Carol Naroki, is set to face liberal Rafael Traskowski in a runoff. The election is characterized by the fragmentation of votes, with over 20% supporting the far-right, making coalition-building challenging.

7. Miscellaneous Discussions and Light-Hearted Moments (35:24)

The hosts touch upon cultural elements, including Bruce Springsteen's influence and his symbolic presence in Trump's rhetoric. They also discuss the comedic relief provided by figures like Joe Lycett, the comedian behind "The United States of Birmingham," which serves as a humorous counterpoint to the heavy political discourse.

Alastair quips about Bruce Springsteen:

“A king ain't satisfied till he rules everything.” (35:48)

Rory shares his admiration for Springsteen and the challenges of relating to his iconic status.

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts (36:13)

As the episode wraps up, Rory and Alastair reflect on the episodes' key discussions, emphasizing the unpredictable nature of political landscapes both in the US and Europe. They tease future episodes, including a detailed look at Romania's political scene in their "Question Time" segment.

Alastair humorously prompts listeners to consider Bruce Springsteen's philosophical lines, tying back to the episode's themes of power and leadership.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Alastair Campbell on Biden's Cognitive Decline:
  “...Biden didn't recognize him.” (02:06)

• Rory Stewart on Trump's Debate Moment:
  “I don't know what he just said and I don't think he knows what he just said.” (03:07)

• Rory Stewart on Fake Social Media Influence:
  “I think that the populist right have done a better job of populating what is now viewed as the most influential social media platform among these young men.” (32:37)

• Alastair Campbell on Portugal's Election:
  “58% of the profiles that were engaging positively with Chega were fake.” (28:12)

• Rory Stewart on Bruce Springsteen:
  “A king ain't satisfied till he rules everything.” (35:48)

Key Insights and Conclusions

1. Biden's Health Under Scrutiny: Reports of Joe Biden's health issues and cognitive decline could have significant implications for his political future and public perception.

2. Trump's Unpredictable Foreign Policy: Trump's Middle East tour and unexpected decisions, such as lifting sanctions on controversial figures, highlight his unpredictable approach to international relations.

3. Social Media as a Political Tool: The substantial following of populist figures like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage on platforms like TikTok underscores the shifting dynamics in political influence and engagement.

4. Rise of Far-Right Populism in Europe: The surge of far-right parties like Chega in Portugal and strong showings in other European nations indicate a broader trend challenging traditional political structures and raising concerns about the spread of disinformation.

5. Cultural Influences in Politics: References to cultural icons like Bruce Springsteen illustrate the intersection of politics and popular culture, influencing public sentiment and political narratives.

6. Future Political Uncertainty: Continued elections and shifting political alliances in Europe, coupled with unstable leadership in nations like Poland, signal ongoing volatility in the region's political landscape.

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This summary is crafted to provide a comprehensive overview of Episode 406 for listeners and those who may have missed it, encapsulating the critical discussions and insights shared by Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart.