Episode 429: Question Time – Gaza, Genocide, and Global Hypocrisy

Release Date: July 16, 2025
Hosts: Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart
Podcast: The Rest Is Politics by Goalhanger

1. Introduction

The episode begins with brief promotional segments for The Rest Is Politics Plus membership and sponsors Fuse Energy and NordVPN. These segments, marked by timestamps [00:00] to [02:47], are skipped as per content guidelines.

2. Israel-Gaza Conflict and the Genocide Debate

a. Alastair Campbell's Assertion of Genocide ([02:50] - [07:15])

Alastair Campbell ignites the discussion by asserting that Israel's actions in Gaza constitute genocide. He reflects on the significant reactions this statement has garnered, noting both support and backlash:

• Supportive Responses:

  • Anonymous Jewish Individual: A private conversation with a Jewish neighbor who finds the podcast's stance "indefensible" yet truthful, expressing anxiety over rising anti-Semitism ([03:43]-[06:00]).

• Organizational Responses:

  • Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF): Sent a letter to UK officials stating, "genocide is being committed in Gaza and the UK government is complicit" ([05:30]-[06:10]).

Alastair emphasizes the moral and legal implications, referencing Article 1 of the Genocide Convention, which obligates states to prevent and punish genocide ([04:50]-[05:10]).

b. Public and Expert Criticism ([07:15] - [11:50])

Rory Stewart introduces a critical perspective through an email from a "middle of the road Jewish Londoner," who argues against Campbell's position by asserting Israel's right to self-defense and questioning the designation of Israel's actions as genocide. Key points from the email include:

• Defense of Israel:

  • Self-Defense Argument: "This is a war of self-defense... Innocents are dying because we're trying to neutralize assailants hiding within civilian populations" ([08:00]-[09:30]).

• Accusations of Anti-Semitism: The sender claims that holding Israel to higher standards is perceived as anti-Semitic, suggesting a double standard compared to other nations' responses to terrorism ([09:30]-[10:30]).

c. Rory Stewart's Rebuttal ([11:50] - [17:29])

Rory challenges the critic's viewpoint by highlighting the disproportionate nature of Israel's military response:

• Disproportionate Response: "You cannot possibly consider killing what is 50,000 people as being a reasonable response to this horrible terrorist attack" ([12:00]-[13:00]).

• Historical Comparisons: References the UK's and USA's disproportionate responses to terrorist attacks, labeling them as "madness" ([13:00]-[14:30]).

• Political Motivation: Alastair discusses Netanyahu's political survival strategies and the detrimental impact on Israel's global reputation, citing Mandy Patinkin's concerns about Jewish safety worldwide ([15:00]-[16:00]).

d. Implications for Hostage Negotiations ([16:02] - [17:47])

Rory delves into the complexities of hostage negotiations, questioning the effectiveness of Israel's strategy given the lack of trust from Hamas:

• Hostage Dilemma: "Why would they honestly return the remaining hostages if the sense they get is that Netanyahu will just radically increase assaults" ([16:30]-[17:00]).

Alastair adds that internal Israeli dissent, including from military reservists, opposes extreme measures like relocating Palestinians to Egypt, underscoring the ethical and legal issues involved ([17:00]-[17:47]).

3. UK Government's Stance and Lobbying Influence

a. Impact of Lobbying and Anti-Semitism Concerns ([17:47] - [28:18])

Rory poses a question regarding the UK's military support for Israel, probing into the role of Israeli lobbying and its influence on UK politics. The discussion navigates the sensitive terrain of anti-Semitic tropes and the conflation of political support with ethnic bias.

• Labor Party Dynamics: Alastair cites examples of prominent Jewish figures within the Labour Party who have shifted from broad support of Israel to opposing its current government actions, indicating a complex relationship between support and criticism ([26:00]-[28:00]).

• BBC's Impartiality Challenges: Rory critiques the BBC's handling of impartiality clauses and linguistic nuances that may unintentionally promote anti-Semitic interpretations, emphasizing the cultural context of terms like "yehudi" ([27:00]-[28:18]).

b. Alastair's Perspective on Government Support ([28:18] - [32:18])

Alastair addresses the question by highlighting personal anecdotes of support from prominent Labour figures while expressing skepticism about attributing UK government policies to Jewish financial influence:

• Rejection of Anti-Semitic Tropes: "I don't buy the idea that it's because, you know, rich Jewish donors give lots of money to political parties" ([28:50]-[29:10]).

• Political Realities: Discusses the strategic distancing from Netanyahu and Trump's influence, suggesting that the UK government's support is more about diplomatic complexities than ethnic lobbying ([30:00]-[32:18]).

4. Listener Questions and Broader Political Issues

a. Migrant Deal Between UK and France ([30:13] - [35:16])

A listener, Fatima Shah, questions the effectiveness of the UK’s migrant deal with France, comparing it to the previously criticized Rwanda deal.

• Assessment of the Deal: Alastair views the limited scope (50 migrants per week) as a pilot to test feasibility ([31:30]-[32:18]).

• Rory's Critique and Strategic Suggestions: Rory argues that the deal's success hinges on scaling up to 100% enforcement, preventing migrants from even attempting the dangerous crossings, and integrating it into a broader European framework similar to the EU-Turkey deal ([32:18]-[35:16]).

b. Spain's Corruption Crisis ([35:16] - [40:35])

The discussion shifts to Spain's Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez facing corruption allegations involving his close advisors and family, which threaten his political credibility and government stability.

• Alastair's Analysis: Highlights the impact of these scandals amidst economic challenges and natural disasters, noting parallels to other political corruption cases ([39:05]-[40:35]).

• Rory's Insights: Points out external pressures from figures like Trump, who threatens economic sanctions over Spain’s defense spending decisions, exacerbating internal political turmoil ([40:35]-[41:01]).

c. PKK's Disarmament Announcement ([41:01] - [43:41])

A listener inquires about the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Turkey announcing a move towards disarmament, a significant shift after decades of conflict.

• Rory's Explanation: Provides historical context on the Kurdish struggle and the potential implications of the PKK's announcement for regional peace ([41:30]-[43:41]).

• Alastair's Reflection: Compares the development to the Good Friday Agreement, expressing cautious optimism while acknowledging skepticism based on past peace efforts ([42:22]-[43:41]).

5. Reflection on Live Aid and Its Legacy

a. Nostalgia and Contemporary Challenges ([43:41] - [53:25])

The hosts reminisce about the 40th anniversary of Live Aid, reflecting on its impact and questioning the possibility of replicating such a unifying event in today's fragmented society.

• Live Aid's Legacy: Alastair shares personal experiences attending the Live Aid musical, praising its enduring legacy and the continued relevance of its message ([44:34]-[47:25]).

• Rory's Perspective: Connects the decline in large-scale philanthropic movements to reduced civic engagement, increased cynicism, and the erosion of civil society, attributing these changes to shifts in media consumption and societal priorities ([48:44]-[50:40]).

• Cultural Impact: Both hosts lament the loss of collective idealism and the diminished role of artists and celebrities in driving social change, advocating for renewed efforts to harness cultural influence for humanitarian causes ([50:40]-[53:25]).

6. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a heartfelt acknowledgment of the discussed topics, emphasizing the need for intelligent and engaged political discourse. The hosts encourage listeners to reflect on the intricate interplay between politics, society, and global humanitarian efforts.

Notable Quotes

• Alastair Campbell ([03:43]):

  "I just think it is indefensible. What is going on is indefensible. I cannot find a way to defend it."

• Rory Stewart ([12:00]):

  "You cannot possibly consider killing what it is, 50,000 people as being a reasonable response to this horrible terrorist attack."

• Alastair Campbell ([13:00]):

  "This is a military catastrophe as well as a moral catastrophe."

• Rory Stewart ([16:30]):

  "Why would they honestly return the remaining hostages if the sense they get is that Netanyahu will just radically increase and redouble his efforts to wipe them all out?"

• Alastair Campbell ([28:50]):

  "I don't buy the idea that it's because, you know, rich Jewish donors give lots of money to political parties."

• Rory Stewart ([32:18]):

  "If nobody is going to do it, you'd never do it. So doing it with 50 a week destroys the whole thing from the beginning."

• Alastair Campbell ([44:34]):

  "Live Aid is a real thing. It's still going on, it's still giving money."

• Rory Stewart ([48:44]):

  "The headline of the week has got to be... How Live Aid Ruined Pop Music for Good."

Conclusion

Episode 429 of The Rest Is Politics delves deep into the contentious Israel-Gaza conflict, examining allegations of genocide, the role of anti-Semitism in political discourse, and the influence of lobbying on UK government policies. Additionally, the hosts tackle pressing global issues such as migration policies, Spain's political corruption, and the PKK's disarmament efforts. The episode concludes with a nostalgic yet critical reflection on the lasting impact of Live Aid, urging a revival of collective humanitarian action through cultural and societal engagement.