Episode 433: Epstein’s Inner Circle, Ukraine’s Zelensky Backlash, and Destroying the Addiction Economy

Release Date: July 30, 2025
Podcast: The Rest Is Politics
Hosts: Alastair Campbell and Katy Kay

1. Epstein’s Inner Circle and Potential Impeachment of Trump

Alastair Campbell kicks off the episode by addressing the absence of Rory Stewart and introduces Kassie Epstein to discuss the intricate connections between former President Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.

Kassie Epstein elaborates on the slim chances of Trump being impeached over his association with Epstein:

"The chances of him being impeached over Jeffrey Epstein, I think are pretty slim... Epstein had his contacts or they were at a party together, all of which we already know."
(05:00)

The discussion delves into Trump's relationships and the implications of recent testimonies from Epstein's trial. Katy underscores the gravity of the abuse victims endured:

"It's so clinical. And the way he moved on these girls and deliberately seemed to go for 14 year old girls... It's that story actually, in a way that is the important political story as well."
(06:09)

Alastair questions Trump's potential motives for suppressing the full truth about Epstein, highlighting the lack of empathy displayed by Trump towards the victims:

"Donald Trump has not once said anything that I would define as being empathetic about the victims."
(09:28)

Kassie adds that discussions around Epstein are fueling conspiracy theories, especially with Trump hinting at the power to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell:

"If she's pardoned, that plays into the conspiracy theory."
(11:15)

2. Government Failures in Reducing Violence Against Women and Girls

Responding to a query from Kira Bergman, CEO of Rape Crisis England and Wales, the hosts tackle the persistent issue of violence against women and girls in the UK.

Katy highlights the backlash against women's issues in the United States, drawing parallels to potential political hesitations in the UK:

"There's no funding for it anymore. You can't really talk about it anymore... male politicians feel very squeamish about talking about."
(14:31)

Alastair shares sobering statistics to emphasize the severity of the problem:

"In England and Wales, 798,000 women raped each year. That's one in 30."
(16:05)

He further discusses the challenges within the legal system, citing a report on the backlog in Crown Court trials:

"An average of at least two years to get to court. Currently almost 12,000 waiting."
(16:45)

Katy connects the discussion to the Epstein saga, highlighting how societal stigma and inadequate services exacerbate the trauma faced by victims:

"The embarrassment and the shame that women face when they've been sexually abused or raped... increases their mental health stress."
(18:21)

3. Ukraine’s Zelensky Backlash and EU Aid Withholding

Viv Felton's question steers the conversation towards Ukraine, specifically the European Union's decision to withhold $1.5 billion in aid due to President Zelenskyy's recent domestic policy moves.

Alastair explains the context behind the EU's actions:

"They brought in a new law to relieve two big anti corruption agencies of their independence... led to protests and eventually, Zelenskyy reversed it."
(19:41)

Katy adds that Zelenskyy's move was perceived as an attempt to consolidate power, causing friction not only within Ukraine but also among EU members and American senators who advocate for anti-corruption measures:

"Republican senators... want to see corruption stamped out in Ukraine."
(21:15)

4. Destroying the Addiction Economy

The episode transitions to the pressing issue of addiction within society, spurred by a question from Joe Woof about the "Addiction Economy."

Alastair introduces the concept of a public health fund aimed at mitigating the influence of industries that propagate addictive products:

"We shouldn't blame the people who are doing this because they are conditioned by the industry."
(26:48)

Katy discusses current efforts by figures like Bobby Kennedy Jr. to reduce addictive substances in junk food and the broader implications of fast food companies fostering addictive behaviors:

"Bright, pure sugar with some food dye at least. Addiction to fast food... designed to make us addicted."
(28:29)

The conversation explores the interplay between genetic predispositions and environmental factors in addiction, with Alastair questioning the extent to which genetics influence addictive behaviors:

"If you're raised in a house that is addicted... you're more liable to follow those patterns of behavior."
(31:26)

Katy counters by acknowledging the genetic components in certain addictions, emphasizing the complexity of the issue:

"There's definitely a genetic profile in certain addictions."
(31:28)

5. Hope and Youth Engagement in Politics

A poignant question from Sam in Hertfordshire touches on the role of hope in political activism. Alastair offers an optimistic perspective, stressing the importance of maintaining hope to drive change:

"If you don't, what's the alternative to hope? It's despair... you are essential to saving it and keep on keeping on."
(32:19)

Katy echoes this sentiment, highlighting the vital energy and commitment of young people in the face of global challenges:

"Whenever I get really gloomy... I look to younger people because I see so much energy there."
(34:11)

6. Lighthearted Banter and Closing Remarks

The hosts conclude with some light-hearted exchanges about outdated photos and managing big egos, reinforcing their camaraderie and commitment to fostering inclusive conversations in politics.

Katy humorously reassures Alastair about his youthful appearance in old photos, while also commending his and Anthony Scaramucci's balanced egos:

"Both of you are delightful human beings with very well therapized egos who are very happy to let me participate in the conversation."
(35:39)

Alastair wraps up by praising the importance of women's voices in politics and commending figures like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris:

"I still think Hillary and Kamala will be better than what we've got right now."
(36:32)

Notable Quotes:

• Katy Kay on Victims' Trauma:
  "Every time this story comes back again, they have to relive that trauma of abuse, the guilt, the embarrassment, the shame, the fear that comes with that."
  (06:09)

• Alastair Campbell on Hope:
  "If you don't, what's the alternative to hope? It's despair... you are essential to saving it and keep on keeping on."
  (32:19)

• Katy Kay on Addiction:
  "What Joe Wolfe said about the discussion that Rory and I had, he said we were sort of revealing what he felt was a sense that being fat, being drunk, losing your money to gambling, that's your fault. These are choices you're making."
  (30:10)

Conclusion

In this episode, Alastair Campbell and Katy Kay navigate through a myriad of pressing political issues—from the shadowy connections surrounding Jeffrey Epstein and the precarious political landscape in Ukraine, to the pervasive challenges posed by societal addictions and the imperative to protect and empower victims of violence. Balancing serious discourse with moments of levity, the hosts provide insightful analysis and foster a conversation that underscores the importance of hope, youth engagement, and systemic change in the realm of politics.

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