The Rest Is Politics – Episode 452

Question Time: America’s New Martyr and Westminster’s Hidden Spies
September 24, 2025 – Hosted by Alastair Campbell & Rory Stewart

Episode Overview

In this episode, Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart tackle the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s killing in America and its political exploitation, debate real cancel culture and free speech on both sides of the Atlantic, and dig into the collapse of the Chinese spying case in Westminster. They also reflect on signs of shifting world order, Russia’s hybrid warfare in Moldova, and share a lighter segment on nostalgic TV adverts. Throughout, they combine sharp analysis with personal anecdotes and the podcast’s trademark mix of humour and insight.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. America’s “New Martyr”: The Weaponization of Charlie Kirk’s Death

• Political Rally Disguised as Memorial

  • Both hosts react to the politicized funeral, especially Stephen Miller’s speech. Stewart highlights Miller’s "astonishing" language espousing ethnic nationalism, likening it to mainstreaming “the Lord of the Rings... taking on the orcs at Mordor” (02:12).
  • Quote:

    “He keeps talking about legacy, inheritance... our people. Presumably white people are the people who built Athens and Rome and Monticello... We created civilization and our opponents... are barbarians.”
    — Rory Stewart (02:50)

• Chilling Parallels with Authoritarian History

  • Campbell compares the MAGA reaction to a “Reichstag moment—something bad happens and they weaponize it” (03:30).
  • Notes that Miller’s rhetoric closely echoes phrases from Goebbels’ “The Coming Storm.”

• Free Speech: Hypocrisy & Suppression

  • Campbell sharply critiques the right’s claim to free speech, citing Trump’s attacks on media figures like Jimmy Kimmel:

    “Free speech is... so long as you agree with us. If you don’t agree with us... you are nothing.”
    — Alastair Campbell (04:32)

  • Notes the irony given right-wing complaints about cancel culture in the UK.

• Religious Nationalism and Christian Nationalist Fusion

  • Both hosts discuss the deliberate fusion of right-wing politics and Christianity in the U.S. as a means to “other” non-Christian groups, especially Muslims (07:30–08:23).
  • Stewart critiques the hollow invocation of Christianity for exclusionary, anti-empathetic politics:

    "I'm not sure that any of these people... are actually serious practicing Christians at all. It’s just a pure cover for anti-Muslim sentiment.”
    — Rory Stewart (08:23)

  • Notes the importance of actual Christian values (empathy, caring for outsiders) versus the weaponized version on display.

• Hate as Authoritarian Fuel

  • Trump’s open declaration at the event—"I hate my opponents"—and the crowd’s applause, seen as the heart of authoritarianism (09:07).

• Reflections on British Media’s Rightward Drift

  • Campbell discusses GB News and figures like Paul Marshall leveraging religious rhetoric to justify right-wing positions (10:47).

2. Cancel Culture: Right vs. Left

• Examined via the U.S. reaction post-Kirk and contrasts to UK discourse.
• Rory Stewart notes his skepticism of both sides' claims but agrees the current right-wing suppression in the U.S. puts the left’s efforts in the shade (06:44).

3. Judeo-Christian Inheritance & Human Rights: A Contested Battlefield

• Both explore ideological battles over the concept of “fallenness” and Christian values as invoked by political actors like Danny Kruger, Curtis Yarvin.
• Stewart:

  "When it comes to their enemies, boy, there’s not much forgiving at all." (13:29)

• Kruger’s denouncement of human rights as “worshipping fairies” is ridiculed for its lack of coherence (14:29).
• Stewart defends the Christian roots of human rights, criticizing the current right-wing theological reinterpretation (14:59).

4. British Diplomacy: Lighter (and Vinous) Moments

• Listener asks why the state banquet menu for the king and Trump was in French and lacked English wine (16:21).
• Campbell jokes about Trump’s teetotalism; Stewart suggests the European menu might be subtle trolling (16:57).

5. Chinese Spying, the UK Parliamentary Case Collapse & Security Legislation

• Collapse of the Cash/Berry Spy Case
  • Stewart’s skepticism about the evidence since the case began is vindicated: “I was always a bit skeptical... whether they’d ever be able to get evidence...” (20:02).
• Gordon Carrera’s Security Analysis (22:27–24:42)
  • Explains the difficulty of prosecuting under the old Official Secrets Act versus the new National Security Act, which lowers the bar for prosecution.
  • Points to ongoing vulnerabilities:

    “Concern that some of the loopholes which allow foreign money... into politics... has not been closed by successive governments.”
    — Gordon Carrera (23:20)

  • Highlights persistent and growing threats from both Chinese and Russian foreign interference.

6. Signs of the Breaking World Order

• Stewart details strategic shifts pointing to declining U.S./Western clout:

  • New Saudi–Pakistan defense deal (linked to nuclear deterrence)
  • China blocking defense agreements between Australia and Pacific islands (27:44–28:48)
  • Erosion of multilateral alliances and institutions (UN/NATO) under Trump

• “As America gives up on the United Nations, gives up on the international system, these alliances emerge... something that feels... like, if not a pre-Second World War moment, maybe pre-First World War.”
  — Rory Stewart (29:28)

• Campbell underlines China’s global maneuvering as U.S. focus wanes (28:48–29:28).

7. Russian Hybrid Warfare: Chaos as a Strategy in Moldova

• Stewart outlines the Kremlin’s playbook in Moldova—funneling money, misinformation, cyberattacks to destabilize the pro-EU government (31:06–33:38).
• Explains the shift from Chinese “rational pursuit of interests” to Russian “policy of chaos” (34:29).
• Campbell:

  “Ultimately, the goal is to undermine Moldovan people's faith in their political institutions and leaders. That’s the goal.” (35:32)

• Both underscore that this model has been deployed across Europe, including Brexit and U.S. elections.

8. Nostalgia & Political Reflections: The Power and Demise of TV Adverts

• Campbell and Stewart reminisce about favourite British TV ads, noting their cultural influence and the decline of TV advertising revenue (37:43–41:07).

• Stewart on the implications for politics:

  “With TV advertising revenue collapsed... the money flows to social media. And that’s dangerous for politics.” (39:41)

• Stewart also notes the danger in Trump’s seizure of TikTok:

  “If America starts helping itself to other people’s companies, other people may start doing the same.” (40:59)

• Campbell skewers Trump’s wild numeric claims:

  “He was talking about he’s going to lower drug prices by 1,200%... These numbers just come out of his head.” (41:07)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Christian Nationalism:

  “What is Christianity fundamentally about? It is fundamentally about getting beyond ourselves. It's about the empathy and imagination to see... a neighbor from another community and look after them... For it to be co-opted by people who are entirely about selfishness… is so sinister and disturbing.”
  — Rory Stewart (08:23)

• On Cancel Culture:

  “Free speech is... so long as you agree with us. If you don’t agree with us, you are nothing.”
  — Alastair Campbell (04:32)

• On Global Security Threats:

  "It’s enormous. And their cyber attack people [in China] are into hundreds of thousands."
  — Rory Stewart (20:02)

• On Russian Strategy:

  "The view of Putin, a bit like Trump, is that generally speaking, chaos helps them."
  — Rory Stewart (35:32)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• America’s New Martyr & MAGA:
  • 00:20–12:58 — Reactions to Charlie Kirk’s death, right-wing cancel culture, religious nationalism
• Human Rights & Christian Tradition:
  • 12:58–16:21 — Arguments over Judeo-Christian inheritance, human rights, and political theology
• State Banquet Diplomacy:
  • 16:21–18:33 — Banquet menu humor, King Charles’s subtle messages to Trump
• Chinese Spying & Security Failures:
  • 18:33–25:02 — Collapse of parliamentary spy case, Gordon Carrera’s analysis
• Signs of a Shifting World Order:
  • 26:20–31:06 — New Saudi–Pakistan deal, China’s Pacific moves, Australia/U.S. alliances
• Moldova & Russian Hybrid Warfare:
  • 31:06–37:09 — Pro-Russian campaigns, European destabilization, methods and motives
• Political and TV Adverts:
  • 37:09–43:24 — Favourite TV ads, advertising’s influence on culture and politics, Trump’s TikTok move

Summary

This episode serves as a deep dive into two major concerns: how American and British right-wing forces are weaponizing culture, religion, and speech, and how global power dynamics are destabilizing traditional alliances and institutions. Through vivid analysis and memorable analogies, Campbell and Stewart spell out the risks of political martyrdom, the corrosion of democratic norms, the redefinition of religion in politics, and the new landscape of hybrid and information warfare. As always, the blend of wit, personal anecdote and inside knowledge keeps the discussions fresh, accessible, and provocative.